IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 November 2011   (all times are UTC)

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16:12
<markit>
hi alkisg
16:12
my scripts that I'm perfectioning for my own usage for ltsp install and config need to modify config files... I' doning a lot of sed / grep /awk. AFAIR, with sch-script you provide your own "full version" usually instead of try to "patch" the regular ones?
16:12
i.e. squid has a lot of options, and I have to modify only 3-4, and I've no idea about what the other mean
16:12
also I try to configure /etc/network/interfaces requiring eth0 is wan and configured, and adding eth1 or bond1
16:12
seems a lot of work... I'm at 50% more or less
16:12
(and a bit frustrated...)
16:12
also I want to provide some options
16:12
like "want squid?" or "wand dansguard?"
16:13
and depending upon those answer I've to install configure and... modify shorewall rules
16:13
I would need a big control over config files of those programs
16:14
also upon the environment... i.e. to get the default gw I have found a bash script
16:14
but there are not easy bash commands to do so, like an imaginary
16:14
"ip show defaulg gw --provide_interface_name_only
16:16
<alkisg>
markit, about bonding, I wrote my one and only experience in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Trunking
16:16
And I also know that the next network manager version will support bonding, that's about all I know
16:16
<markit>
yep, I red it and was my way to learn how to configure, thanks
16:16
oh, I remove network manager, don't you?
16:16
<alkisg>
I'm usually prefering to keep network-manager
16:16
<markit>
I config /etc/mnetwork/itnerfaces
16:16
<alkisg>
The teachers can see that the cable is disconnected with it, etc
16:17
Or the network properties, network speed...
16:17
<markit>
and misconfigure it? ;P
16:17
<alkisg>
And they can setup VPN connections if they need
16:17
<markit>
oh, sorry
16:17
I keep forgetting
16:17
my teachers are not IT expert
16:17
yours are
16:17
<alkisg>
No, they're not
16:17
<markit>
ops, don't they teach IT?
16:17
<alkisg>
That doesn't make them IT experts, or even plain linux users :)
16:18
But if they have permission to change the network settings, they should know better than to break it
16:18
<markit>
hahaha, sure, but mine don't even teach IT, so...
16:18
<alkisg>
Don't give them permission to change network settings if you don't trust them
16:18
<markit>
well, in my current setup they are all admins
16:18
so they can act upon user's account etc
16:19
but I'm planning to have only one teacher be admin
16:19
<alkisg>
Yeah same here
16:19
<markit>
the one that learns at least the basics
16:19
also "reset" user's account is something that should be possible for all teachers, but you need to be admin
16:19
let's see if epopte's way is good for me too
16:20
<alkisg>
About configuration files, we usually drop a new configuration file in packages that have a config.d directory, like dnsmasq or squid
16:20
<markit>
(only connected accounts)
16:20
<alkisg>
If not, then we modify the configuration file, adding some ----HEADER---- and ----FOOTER---- for our modifications
16:20
<markit>
alkisg: ok, but a generic one you have to customize? i.e. you can have a 2 nic interface server, or only one nic, or 1+bonding...
16:20
<alkisg>
For the default gw etc, network manager has dbus calls to find out
16:20
But you're not using network manager, so yeah you need a good bash script
16:20
<markit>
oh, never used dbus from ruby
16:21
I'm not expert of awk and so on...
16:21
<alkisg>
dbus-send is a console program, you can use that
16:21
<markit>
is there an easy way to searc for a value inside a "block" with my own headers like you suggest?
16:22
so I could modify on the fly if needed (like disable danguardian redirection)
16:22
I planned, in config files taht support "online comments"
16:22
to add a tag
16:22
so I can grep for the value + mytag
16:22
<alkisg>
Yes, sed supports addresses separated with commas
16:23
Grep the sch-scripts sources for sed, we have a couple of examples there
16:23
---BEGIN sch-scripts---- or something similar
16:23
<markit>
great, thanks a lot for the tips
16:27
<alkisg>
E.g. this deletes the additional network modules we add to the initramfs: sed -i '/# BEGIN added by sch-scripts/,/# END added by sch-scripts/d' /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
16:28
<markit>
alkisg: btw, in your wonderful wiki page about bonding, there is the subtitle "This wiki page is specific to Ubuntu Version(s): 8.10", i don't think is the case
16:28
<alkisg>
Yes I think it works in recent versions too, but one has to try it before changing the header :)
16:29
<markit>
I've done with 11.04
16:29
well, not the speed tests, the config
16:29
<alkisg>
Cool, so you can put that in the header
16:29
Of course, no need for speed testing, as long as it works
16:31
<markit>
"If you have a managed switch, you may need to configure it in order for bonding to work. " as far as you told me, for bonding mode 0 you don't need help from switch
16:31
or a managed could prevent it from working?
16:31
(like stopping broadcast by default)
16:31
<alkisg>
Maybe, unfortunately I never saw a managed switch in greek schools :(
16:32
<markit>
I see :)
16:32
<alkisg>
I've heard of switches here stopping broadcasted traffic like dhcp
16:32
No idea what they can do to bonding
16:33
<markit>
not only dhcp, but also multimedia etc broadcast
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16:34
<markit>
they tend to overcomplicate things... should be dumb by default
16:34
and then, if YOU need to enable some feature, be free to do so
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16:51
<matrix3000>
alkis, really?
16:51
you've never seen a managed switch in Greek Schools?
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17:42
<markit>
matrix3000: "real" managed switch (layer3) are really costly (like hp procurve)
17:42
I've cheap ones, layer2 but with web interface and some sort of controls
17:42
they are very good, features and "cheap"
17:42
<vagrantc>
huh. scotty fixed a bug in libnss-sshsock that i can't reproduce with the old version.
17:42
<markit>
(like my recent netgear prosefe 24)
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18:06
<matrix3000>
what about a cisco layer 2
18:06
managed switches have nothing to do with layer 2 vs layer 3
18:06
layer 3 switches just offer routing functionality
18:07
they are more advanced
18:07
managed vs unmanaged are basically dumb switches with no vlan or console management
18:08
but recently switches have hit the market which are like the netgear prosafe series where they don't offer console, but they are configurable layer 2 switches
18:08
instead of layer 2 unconfigurable (workgroup) switches
18:09
we use both here at our office, although i would prefer more layer 2 cisco switches
18:09
just because I have used and studied cisco for years
18:09
since sophmore year in high school
18:09
i even convinced the office to get my a cisco 2911 router and a layer2 etherswitch card for it
18:15
most people don't need a layer 3 unless you need routing or some more advanced features
18:15
<vagrantc>
!seen alkisg
18:15
<ltsp>
vagrantc: alkisg was last seen in #ltsp 1 hour, 43 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <alkisg> No idea what they can do to bonding
18:15
<vagrantc>
doh.
18:22
<stgraber>
vagrantc: sounds like our ltspfs bug ;) can't reproduce the bug when we finally get a fix :)
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18:27
<vagrantc>
heh
18:28
<matrix3000>
!seen mom
18:28
<ltsp>
matrix3000: I have not seen mom.
18:28
<matrix3000>
!seen matrix3000
18:28
<ltsp>
matrix3000: matrix3000 was last seen in #ltsp 18 seconds ago: <matrix3000> !seen mom
18:30
<matrix3000>
!cool
18:30
<ltsp>
matrix3000: Error: "cool" is not a valid command.
18:31
<matrix3000>
!secret
18:31
<ltsp>
matrix3000: I do not know about 'secret', but I do know about these similar topics: 'socat'
18:31
<matrix3000>
!cow
18:31
<ltsp>
matrix3000: Error: "cow" is not a valid command.
18:31
<matrix3000>
!moo
18:31
<ltsp>
matrix3000: Error: "moo" is not a valid command.
18:31
<matrix3000>
lol
18:31
where are the easter eggs
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18:52
<knipwim>
alkisg: i was about the put the vendor detection in ltsp-common-functions
18:52
<alkisg>
Hi knipwim! Yup I think it'd be better there
18:53
<knipwim>
should it be in a function, call it, and it exports VENDOR?
18:53
<alkisg>
Let me see how we use it in ltsp-build-client...
18:53
<knipwim>
or not, a VENDOR is exported when ltsp-common-functions is sourced
18:55
<vagrantc>
alkisg: just about to upload epoptes 0.3.2 to debian unstable
18:56
<alkisg>
knipwim: I think I'd write it as a function, e.g. VENDOR=$(detect_vendor), because it might be a bit expensive (sources a file, executes another)
18:56
vagrantc: nice! We also have a new translation if you want to include it, I think kοmunista wrote it?
18:57
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i didn't include any of the commits that came in since 0.3.2 ... but i could roll a 0.3.3 if you think it's ready
18:57
<alkisg>
No no it's OK
18:57
In a week or so we'll publish 0.4
18:57
maybe in a couple of weeks, to do some more testing
18:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg: this upload will look like it's coming from you, also :)
18:58
alkisg: since i didn't mess with the changelog or anything
18:58
alkisg: unless you'd rather i make a branch or something.
18:58
<alkisg>
Ooooh :) Would that give me ...points if I want to apply for debian maintainer next year or so?
18:58
No, I think it's fine as it is onw
18:58
now
18:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it'll look good, yes. and all the work is yours
18:59
<alkisg>
Thanks!
19:00
vagrantc: is there any idea about the next debian release? Few months? Or futher away?
19:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: epoptes 0.3.2 uploaded!
19:00
<alkisg>
:)
19:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: freeze is in july, so release some months later
19:01
<alkisg>
Nice
19:01* vagrantc also uploaded a new version of libnss-sshsock earlier today
19:02
<alkisg>
Sounds like we're on a good road for ltsp 6!
19:03
<vagrantc>
getting there
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19:06
<knipwim>
what's the main difference between 5 and 6?
19:08
<alkisg>
I don't think anyone has actually proposed increasing the version number yet; I was just joking about all the new changes done in trunk lately
19:08
pam-ssh, maybe deprecating ldm, bootable chroots...
19:08
<vagrantc>
knipwim: some of the highlights include working towards obsoleting LDM (using libpam-sshauth/libnss-sshsock), moving stuff out of ltsp-build-client into initramfs run-time modifications, and making it possible to maintain the chroot from a booted environment
19:09
well, at the LTSP BTS, i think those were the basic features that we'd try to implement for LTSP6
19:10
<Hyperbyte>
!learn future Some of the highlights include working towards obsoleting LDM (using libpam-sshauth/libnss-sshsock), moving stuff out of ltsp-build-client into initramfs run-time modifications, and making it possible to maintain the chroot from a booted environment
19:10
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
19:10
<Hyperbyte>
!learn future as Some of the highlights include working towards obsoleting LDM (using libpam-sshauth/libnss-sshsock), moving stuff out of ltsp-build-client into initramfs run-time modifications, and making it possible to maintain the chroot from a booted environment
19:10
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: The operation succeeded.
19:10
<vagrantc>
heh
19:10
<Hyperbyte>
:)
19:11
<vagrantc>
!ltsp5
19:11
<ltsp>
vagrantc: ltsp5: ltsp5 is The next version of LTSP, and the future of Thin Client computing on GNU/Linux. http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5
19:11
<vagrantc>
hah.
19:11
!ltsp6
19:11
<ltsp>
vagrantc: I do not know about 'ltsp6', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ltsp5', 'ltsp', 'ltsp42'
19:11
<alkisg>
That link is dead though :D Hyperbyte: any news about the wiki?
19:11
<vagrantc>
learn ltsp6 as see !future
19:11
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, I sent jammcq a message earlier (privately though).
19:11
<vagrantc>
ltsp: learn ltsp6 as see !future
19:12
<alkisg>
Cool
19:12
<vagrantc>
that might have confused it
19:12
<Hyperbyte>
!learn ltsp6 as See: !future
19:12
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: The operation succeeded.
19:12
<alkisg>
vagrantc: you forgot !
19:12
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, well, it's not the cool kind yet! ;-)
19:12
I'm a bit too busy with the office move this month.
19:12
<vagrantc>
the old bot didn't use the ! if youu talked to it directly.
19:12
!ltsp6
19:12
<ltsp>
vagrantc: ltsp6: See: !future
19:12
<Hyperbyte>
It's proving a bit difficult for me to have even personal time.
19:12
But, I still have ideas and plans and stuff. :)
19:13
<alkisg>
The new bot name is ltsp, and since we frequently talk about ltsp, we didn't make it respond to its name
19:13
<Hyperbyte>
vagrantc, we disabled it from reacting to it's nickname, because .... yeah, what alkisg said.
19:13
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ah.
19:13
<Hyperbyte>
We would say "LTSP rocks!" and it would reply "No such command: rocks!"
19:13
:(
19:14
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: gotcha, I hope all work out well for you, the move process, and for the wiki
19:14
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, definitely.
19:14
The move itself was planned carefully, good schedule, with time to spare.
19:14
That kinda went out the window my boss launched a new company as well, requiring website, CRM, etc...
19:15
<alkisg>
Ouch
19:15
<Hyperbyte>
Yes, 'ouch' is the right word.
19:15
I did finish the website. :) http://www.hfive.nl/
19:16
I showed you concept I think. :) I like the design, it's very vacation-y. :)
19:17
<alkisg>
I love the sites that consiously select not to use flash
19:17* knipwim is wondering if there is an easteregg when the boat reaches the other side :)
19:18
<Hyperbyte>
knipwim, nope. :) They just appear on the other side. It's not just the boat that's moving though! ;-)
19:19
alkisg, thanks. :) I develop all my websites using Bluefish and Gimp actually.
19:22
knipwim, I was going to have an easter egg by making a coconut fall from the tree when you mouseovered it
19:22
But when I became pressed for time I scratched it.
19:22
<alkisg>
epoptes_0.3.2-1_i386.changes ACCEPTED into unstable ==> oh yeah!!
19:23
<vagrantc>
:)
19:23
in 10 days, it should hit testing...
19:23
<Hyperbyte>
:)
19:23
<vagrantc>
alkisg: don't know if it's worth it to wait for ubuntu to pull 0.4
19:27
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't know how the sync process works... could you and stgraber help me plan it better?
19:27
E.g. suppose we have 0.4 ready in 2 weeks, and some translations in another week after that
19:28
Is it possible to have it in unstable by e.g. December 20th, so that it can be pulled by Ubuntu before DebianLTSImportFreeze?
19:28
11 December 29th A-2 LTSDebianImportFreeze
19:29
<vagrantc>
does it need to pull from unstable or testing?
19:29
alkisg: we could do a 0.4~rc0 release when it's technically ready, and then just add the translations when you want the translation updates
19:29
<alkisg>
Good question, I think in the past non LTS releases pulled from unstable, and LTS releases from testing, but stgraber pulled epoptes from experimental, so I guess it could pull from unstable too...
19:29
<vagrantc>
er, make the final release when you have the translations
19:30
<alkisg>
Ah, that'd be nice
19:30
<vagrantc>
that way we could say "it's already been tested, this is just a translation update"
19:30
alkisg: or do 0.4.0 with technical updates, and 0.4.1 with the translations
19:32
<stgraber>
alkisg, vagrantc: I can sync from experimental, unstable, testing or stable at any time until the FeatureFreeze (some time in February)
19:32
the deadline in December is for automated imports from testing
19:32
<alkisg>
stgraber: until FeatureFreeze?! Wow, that gives us time for many new features
19:32
<vagrantc>
so if we get epoptes into testing by then, it'll just be in ubuntu
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19:33
<alkisg>
Good, no pressure then, we'll have all the major features until the end of the year, and plenty of time for testing
19:33
+translations
19:34
<vagrantc>
alkisg: seems like a bit of release often would be good.
19:34
<alkisg>
vagrantc: indeed, if you don't mind, that would give us more feedback, which is very valuable as the project is new
19:36
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if you release every 10-14 days, i can try to keep up and keep unstable up to date, with the slightly older version always in testing
19:37
stgraber: the epoptes version uploaded to unstable has a big improvement you might want to pull
19:37
<alkisg>
That's doable... Phantomas is just delaying the next release because it's a big change and he wants to do it all in 1 commit
19:37
<vagrantc>
stgraber: but we're likely to make more updates soon, from the sounds of things
19:38
alkisg: it's a single feature?
19:38
<alkisg>
Yes, adding + managing groups (=classes)
19:38
<vagrantc>
ah.
19:38
work in a branch with incremental commits and then merge it in one go
19:40
you get the best of both worlds that way
19:40
<stgraber>
vagrantc: rmadison only shows me epoptes in experimental, is that 0.3.1-1?
19:40
<alkisg>
I keep telling him to create a branch with incremental commits so that I can help him, but he's too stubborn, he wants to only have working code published :)
19:42
<stgraber>
vagrantc: hmm, apparently not as that's the one I currently have in Ubuntu... I guess I need to wait a few more hours before I can sync 0.3.2-1 from experimental
19:42
*unstable
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19:51
<vagrantc>
stgraber: yeah, it'll take a bit to actually hit the archives
20:35
alkisg: i've got the education coordinator at freegeek interested in epoptes, so i'll have incentive to backport to squeeze
20:36
<alkisg>
vagrantc: if you need any help ping me, but afaik it should just work in squeeze
20:36
<vagrantc>
alkisg: hope so.
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<bill_c>
!seen rjune
21:43
<ltsp>
bill_c: I have not seen rjune.
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