IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 February 2015   (all times are UTC)

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09:04
<I-Punkt>
Hi. Ubuntu 14.04 with ltsp-server-standalone and dnsmasq. i followed this way https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp -> The Server works good. Also the Thin-Clients can work with the Programms and in Network we see all shares. But if the clients open firefox, they cant use the internet. no DNS. The help on these webside dont work. can someone giv me a hint, a howto or something like this?
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09:21
<alkisg>
I-Punkt: what's the output of this? egrep -rv '^#|^$' /etc/dnsmasq.*
09:22
<I-Punkt>
oh, no. i dont sit on this maschine at the Moment. i hoped i get a hint to think about.
09:23
<alkisg>
Did you read the paragraph there about DNS?
09:23
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp#DNS_issues
09:24
<I-Punkt>
i used the two workarounds. but nothing works.
09:25
<alkisg>
I think you did something wrong while following those instructions, so you need to come here when you're working on that server, and troubleshoot it
09:25
For example your lts.conf might have the wrong syntax
09:26
<I-Punkt>
ok, you give me hope. i come back with the running maschine. u think we can solved it?
09:26
<alkisg>
I think so :)
09:27
<markit>
lol
09:27
<I-Punkt>
afk
09:27* alkisg waves to markit
09:27
<markit>
alkisg: btw, ltsp6 will integrate ltsp-pnp or they will keep be 2 different stuff?
09:27
<alkisg>
It's not 2 different things
09:28
There are many ways to configure an ltsp server, ltsp-pnp is just one method of the many
09:28
and it's integrated
09:28
<markit>
in ltsp5 already?
09:28
<alkisg>
E.g. you run `ltsp-config dnsmasq` to create the configuration file (while there's no ltsp-config isc-dhcp-server yet)
09:28
Yes, it's in ltsp5 since 2 years
09:29
<markit>
I've always considered pnp be a "radical different way" of doing stuff, a sort of "hack"
09:29
<alkisg>
I don't know why you thought that...
09:29* markit is strange
09:29
<alkisg>
The dnsmasq parts might even become the defaults of ltsp in some future release
09:30
The "no chroot" part is just 1 command, so it won't matter if it ever becomes default or not
09:30
<markit>
alkisg: has dnsmasq solved it's issues? I remember you suggested isc-dhcp
09:30
<alkisg>
I.e. instead of `ltsp-build-client` one runs `ltsp-update-image -c /` immediately...
09:31
You don't remember well ;-/
09:31
dnsmasq has an issue as a dhcp server
09:31
<markit>
yep
09:31
<alkisg>
But we're not using it as a dhcp server
09:31
<markit>
is what I use it for
09:31
<alkisg>
It's fine as a proxydhcp server
09:31
<markit>
(useD)
09:31
<Hyperbyte>
ooh hi
09:31
<alkisg>
Hey Jan
09:31
isc-dhcp doesn't even support proxydhcp server
09:31
So dnsmasq is a good default for ltsp
09:31
<markit>
"The dnsmasq parts might even become the defaults of ltsp in some future release" <--- so only as proxydhcp ?
09:32
<alkisg>
Yes, it's the least intrusive method
09:32
Btw, dnsmasq would work fine in the internal subnet, since it manages the leases there
09:32
So unless someone wants dnsmasq to handle a big network with a lot of unrelated static IPs etc, it's fine
09:34
<markit>
alkisg: ehm, maybe I'm lost. I've a 2 interface server config, and I dropped dnsmasq as dhcp server (just for the client net) because, as far as I remember, was not reliable as isc, is it right or wrong?
09:34
<alkisg>
Basically, wrong
09:34
<markit>
:)
09:38
<alkisg>
http://irclogs.ltsp.org/?d=2012-04-17 mentions the problem
09:38
<vmlintu>
markit: if you have a lot of dhcp requests, dnsmasq ends up dropping some of them
09:39
<markit>
vmlintu: define "a lot", I've at most 30 clients
09:39
<alkisg>
vmlintu: with --no-ping, dnsmasq can handle any number of clients in the internal subnet without waits
09:39
The problem starts if you put unknown IPs in the dnsmasq managed network
09:40
<vmlintu>
yes, the --no-ping helps, but it does have side effects
09:40
<alkisg>
Like?
09:40
<vmlintu>
markit: something like >10 clients booting exactly at the same if I remember correctly
09:41
alkisg: the unknown IP problem that you already mentioned
09:41
<alkisg>
LTSP clients can't have unknown IPs though
09:41
OK of course we agree, that's why I mentioned about the internal subnet etc etc
09:41
It depends on the use, but proxydhcp + internal subnet support is good enough to have as a default
09:42
<markit>
"unknown IPs"? what is the "ping" stuff?
09:42
<vmlintu>
markit: before dhcp server hands out an ip, it should ping it to make sure that it is not used
09:43
<alkisg>
The problem is that dnsmasq is not good enough to do that in parallel
09:43
<vmlintu>
markit: two devices using the same ip doesn't really work, so that's a safeguard
09:43
<markit>
mmm should be sysadmin responsability to have set a unused range for dhcp, no?
09:43
<alkisg>
But if all you have in the internal network is just ltsp clients, then there's no problem at all if you use --no-ping
09:43
<markit>
or isc-dhcp does it too?
09:43
I see
09:44
<alkisg>
isc-dhcp pings in parallel, while dnsmasq pings, waits for a reply, and then handles the next client
09:44
So if you have 10 clients booting, and each one needs a 3 sec timeout for the ping, they'd need to wait 30 seconds for an IP, and they'd probably timeout
09:44
<markit>
ah, funny, NEVER thought there was a "test ping" in dhcp protocol or standard behaviour
09:44
<alkisg>
But with --no-ping they'd be served instantly
09:45
It says "should", not "must" in the protocol
09:45
It's not obligatory
09:45
<markit>
even because M$crap antirivus firewall often drop ping requests
09:45
(that is a nightmare for troubleshooting networsk)
09:46
<alkisg>
I don't think it's an actual igmp ping request, maybe it's something arp-like
09:46
"who has ip xxx", not "ping xxx"
09:46
<markit>
ah, much better and effective
09:46
<alkisg>
But it's been a long time since I read the protocol, I'm not sure
09:46
<markit>
chatting with you is an enlightment experience
09:47
<vmlintu>
This reminds me that I need to dig in to isc-dhcp again soon to get dynamic dns updates working a bit better..
09:47
<alkisg>
vmlintu was very nice to bring this up in 2012, yup thanks again,
09:47* alkisg wonders if we should put --no-ping as the default in ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf...
09:47
<alkisg>
vmlintu: thoughts about that? ^ I know you're not using it, just asking your opinion...
09:48
<I-Punkt>
..stay tuned. the server is on the way to mee ;-)
09:48
<alkisg>
The default ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf generated by ltsp-config dnsmasq, puts dnsmasq in proxydhcp mode for external subnets (so no pings there), and in normal dhcp for the internal subnet,
09:48
i.e. 192.168.67.1
09:48
...I think --no-ping would make sense there for the 192.168.67.1 subnet
09:49
markit: it looks I was wrong, man dnsmasq says IGMP request for ping
09:50
*ICMP
09:50
<markit>
ah, so bad :(
09:50
(well, no problem for ltsp, just general consideration)
09:51
<alkisg>
Related chat with me and dnsmasq's developer back in 2012: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.network.dns.dnsmasq.general/5707
09:51
"Why is using --no-ping risky for LTSP? DHCP clients will still do address-in-use checks and dnsmasq handles DHCPDECLINE messages resulting from those checks happily."
09:52
"I've had reports of successfully netbooting hundreds of machines with --no-ping set."
09:52
<vmlintu>
alkisg: hard to say.. in our environments the biggest problems came from printers that usually have really bad dhcp clients that usually never renew their leases
09:53* alkisg wonders if ipxe and the pxe stacks send DHCP_DECLINE messages when they see that that address already exists
09:53
<markit>
"DHCP clients will still do address-in-use checks", never known about that... I always thought that having static or already in use IP inside a dhcp range was a sure source for duplicated ips
09:53
<vmlintu>
alkisg: we usually place network printers in the same subnet as the clients and use dhcp for them with dynamic dns
09:54
<alkisg>
vmlintu: did you try --no-ping and saw issues? or is it just speculation currently?
09:54
<markit>
vmlintu: dynamic dns with GNU/Linux? I thought only very recent bind9 can do, developed due to samba4 needs
09:56
<alkisg>
Well, time to go, bb guys
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09:56
<markit>
by alkigs
10:00
<vmlintu>
alkisg: it was years ago, so I cannot remember all the details anymore.. we did test --no-ping and decided to switch isc-dhcp
10:01
markit: we are running our own scripts that read mac addresses and hostnames from ldap and update dhcp accordingly
10:01
markit: https://github.com/opinsys/puavo-ltsp/blob/master/bootserver/sbin/puavo-update-ddns
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10:21
<I-Punkt>
I am back. the server is here now. But the owner install a pure new ubuntu 14.04. Can we do the steps now to install a terminalserver wit one nic proxydhcp now?
10:22
i would do the steps from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp now
10:27
oh no, now im alone :-)
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10:48
<I-Punkt>
Im on this point now i wrote about one hour ago. The thinclient has dns-problems. in firefox i try to open google.de and error page come. if i try 173.194.44.88 for example, the googlepage opens well. Can someone help me now?
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10:51
<markit>
I-Punkt: never installed ltsp-pnp, but if you can reach internet, seems the dhcp is giving you the wrong dns
10:51
opening a shell in the client, the content of /etc/resolv.conf is?
10:52
<I-Punkt>
lets try. moment please
10:52* markit remembers that 14.04 uses resolver, maybe is more complicated then
10:57
<markit>
I-Punkt: I've probably to leave soon...
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10:58
<I-Punkt>
ok, no problem. you can leave. i restarted the server but now i get a erro on client. tfpt open timeout. but i run 5 minutes before. noooo
10:58
it was running 5 minutes ago
10:59
i give up
11:00
<markit>
strange, ok, bye see you later maybe but I'm not that good in troubleshooting, your hope is alkisg
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12:57
<sayantan>
s
12:57
hi
12:57
I'm Sayantan
12:58
I want to use HP t200 Zero client (SMSC Based) with LTSP. Can I do that?
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