IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 11 March 2010   (all times are UTC)

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00:06
<alkisg>
vagrantc: hi - my usual evening question :D would you object to an _option_ for mounting the localapps (==fat client's) home dir with nfs instead of sshfs?
00:07
(having file-lock problems with evolution)
00:11
<vagrantc>
as long as it wasn't too crazy messy.
00:13
<alkisg>
Thanks, I'll give it a try
00:15
<vagrantc>
in general, i'm supportive of options. though i've started to see that too many options can get a bit burdensome on the codebase.
00:19
<alkisg>
It'd be easier if each "plugin" was in its own file, called with different options (config, initialization etc) on client startup, similar to how it is with ltsp-build-client...
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00:46
<alkisg>
Hmmm setting CKCON_X11_DISPLAY_DEVICE in /etc/security/pam_env.conf seems like the least intrusive way to make are local sessions CK-enabled
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01:56
<alkisg>
Hrm I wonder how I could call a script from pam_env.conf, e.g. CKCON_X11_DISPLAY_DEVICE=$(/usr/lib/ConsoleKit/ck-get-x11-display-device)
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02:03
<johnny>
have you talked to the console kid people?
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02:07
<alkisg>
johnny: where's that? any irc rooms?
02:07
or is it #freedesktop?
02:08
<johnny>
probably freedesktop
02:08
but don't they have a mailing list
02:08
or some other way to cross reference names to irc names :)
02:08
<alkisg>
urm, I'll give it another shot, but I didn't get any responses the last 2 days there :)
02:08
<johnny>
well try the mailing list
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04:09
<alkisg>
This makes fat client sessions work fine with consolekit, but it's a hack, can someone see a cleaner way? http://paste.ubuntu.com/393156/
04:09
CK is needed in order for PK to consider the current user as active, so that he can mount usb sticks etc
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04:14
<nubae>
hi folks
04:14
alkisg: u around?
04:15
<alkisg>
nubae: yes - but i'll leave soon to get my daughter from the school
04:15
<nubae>
ok, quick question, what do u think about this as a thin client: http://www.amazon.com/fit-PC-Slim-Linux/dp/B001L18ED2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268302366&sr=8-9
04:15
check the specs... the only thing that worries me is the 500mhz geode processor
04:16
<alkisg>
I'm not the right person to ask about hardware :)
04:16
I only use 10 year old pcs as thin clients... :)
04:16
<nubae>
hehe, ok, but take a look anyhow
04:17
its 199$ so its really affordable, I'm thinking about buying these for my school... I'd need about 20 units, but would like to buy one to test... I'm worried about specs, which I think u can evaluate better than I at this point
04:18
oh and comes with ubuntu preinstalled
04:18
<alkisg>
100mbps ethernet? why not gigabit?
04:19
<nubae>
maybe this is better? (same price): http://www.amazon.com/Acer-AspireRevo-AR1600-U910H-Desktop-Windows/dp/B002O3W44Q/ref=pd_cp_pc_2
04:19
<alkisg>
BBL
04:19
<nubae>
ok
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04:29
<g4tsu>
Hi
04:29
I've got a problem with LTSP and disabling ssh
04:29
I've add this line in lts.conf without success : LDM_DIRECTX=True
04:44
<sep>
define without success? it will still start a ssh for authentication, but X is run outside the ssh tunnel for performance. what did you exect should happen ?
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04:53
<alkisg>
nubae: the latter would make a good fat client...
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05:18
<Comete>
hello
05:20
how can i change the LDM background image ?
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06:07
<nubae>
alkisg: of course, they dont ship to Europe :-)
06:07
so forget that idea :-)
06:07
damn amazon...
06:09
I tried installing local apps in my thin client and now I get busybox prompt
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07:00
<weenus>
This falls under category wtf. I was having a problem with ltsp starting up until I followed your directions I got below and then it stopped working until I undid the instructions and put the path back to /opt/ltsp/i386 in the dhcpd.conf file http://pastie.org/864852 Just thought that I'd let you know.
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07:13
<nubae>
sigh... enabling binary drivers in the chroot seems to be a spectactular pain in the ass
07:15
I guess Im going to have to downgrade the chroot to Jaunty
07:28
<alkisg>
Why?
07:30
In Lucid it's even possible to install many binary drivers simultaneously
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07:34
<anivair>
I don't suppose anyone knows how to break a .gvfs directory?
07:35
I have users that can't log in when I use a Term 1220. the problem is with the .gvfs directory somehow
07:35
the users that CAN log in on them have a .gvfs directory that is somehow broken, though it may be intentional.
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07:36
<anivair>
the last time I got around it, i tried to log them into the main server and set up desktop effects. That errors out (because I don't have the drivers) and after, the directory is as follows:
07:36
d????????? ? ? ? ? ? .gvfs
07:37
<alkisg>
Are you using localapps?
07:37
<anivair>
I don't even know how to do that on purpose, let alone accidentally
07:37
I am for a few items (phones)
07:37
<alkisg>
With SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=false, any attempts to create symlinks on sshfs fail, and files like this get created instead
07:38
So I guess those files got created when the users tried to mount a usb stick etc
07:38
<anivair>
where is that set? is it global?
07:38
<alkisg>
In lts.conf
07:38
<anivair>
hrm ... pretty sure it's not set in there
07:38
<alkisg>
It was the default setting for some time
07:39
<anivair>
I see
07:39
<alkisg>
You didn't have to set it manually...
07:39
distro/version?
07:39
<anivair>
so it probzably got set for them in an older version
07:39
karmic ubuntu
07:39
<alkisg>
I think it's the default in karmic
07:39
<anivair>
but many users were migrated from older versions
07:39
what WAS happening is that he just couldn't log in
07:40
it'd just drop him back out to the login screen when it tried to create a display
07:40
<alkisg>
***i'm saying all this backwards - SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS should be *true* on karmic. It's now been reverted to false on Lucid.
07:40
<anivair>
setting the .gvfs file to root ownership and 0 permissions got him in, but now it's laggy and buggy
07:40
which is not what I want, of course
07:40
<alkisg>
Just try to set SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=false
07:41
In lts.conf
07:42
<anivair>
will I need to rebuild my kernel after that, or just reboot the thin client?
07:42
<alkisg>
Reboot the client
07:42
<anivair>
I'll give it a shot
07:48
<nubae>
alkisg: because AMD, smart folks that they are do not support karmic or lucid
07:48
ive been trying to get the damn dribers working now for about a week
07:50
ati used to be so well supported, and now its like getting blood out of a stone to get it working
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07:52
<nubae>
alkisg: I now u're busy, but would u have time to look at a couple logos I did for my new IT school... I desperately need a second opinion and direction to go in...
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08:00
<anivair>
hrm ... well, that got me logged in (even after I changed back the ownership and permissions on .gvfs) but it's still laggy and buggy. I can't even seem to get more things open now.
08:00
(I have never had this much trouble with a login in my life)
08:03
<nubae>
anivair: have u checked to see the xsession-errors log file under /home/username/.xsession-errors
08:03
that often reveals clues
08:03
<anivair>
checking now
08:05
for the users that can login but nothing runs, I'm getting a lot of fatal IO error 11 (resource temporarily unavailable) on X server
08:06
... and apparently it's working fine on another thin client of the same make. what the hell is that? Hold on just a sec while I verrify.
08:06
<nubae>
are u sure u're not trying to run the same program from the same user on different machines?
08:06
that is a no no
08:07
u can only run one session per user... otherwise things can get hairy
08:08
<anivair>
I was trying ot run the phone (which is a localapp and also he does not have running on hte other login)
08:08
the only concurrency is his login
08:09
which should work AFAIK
08:10
but let me have him log out to make sure
08:13
<nubae>
well if its local app should be ok
08:13
its just non local apps, if its the same user u can get problems
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08:15
<mighty-d>
HI
08:15
we are thinking on a LTSP server running on a virtual machine, has this been done?, what are the results?
08:16
<Appiah>
yes it has been done
08:16
I dont see the problem?
08:17
<nubae>
the results are, ltsp running on a vm :p
08:17
sorry couldnt resist
08:17
<mighty-d>
Appiah, heh, there is no problem, do you know how it did in performance
08:17
nubae heh
08:17
:P
08:17
<Appiah>
well I never benchmarked any of my ltsp installs
08:17
vs non-virtual installs
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08:17
<Appiah>
O_o
08:17
<nubae>
they say u loose about 10% or so
08:17
its not much in any case
08:17
<Appiah>
10% what
08:18
<nubae>
performance in general
08:18
speed
08:18
<Appiah>
how was that messured?
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08:18
<mighty-d>
Appiah how many user load do you have on your ltsp, and what are your users using it for (education, work office, etc)
08:18
<Appiah>
and who are they? do you have any source
08:18
<nubae>
well, actually I'm talking about cpu based or something like virtualbox
08:18
<Appiah>
educational and offices
08:19
<mighty-d>
Appiah your largest virtualized LTSP deployment?
08:19
<Appiah>
I dont have a singel one , my customers have
08:19
<nubae>
ie... if its supported in the cpu, u should not see any differences
08:19
yes, I read it recently in Linux Format
08:19
<Appiah>
20 users me thinks
08:19
<nubae>
I cannot remember the author
08:19
nor do I care to go look it up :-=
08:19
<mighty-d>
ok, what are you using as the hypervisor?
08:20
<nubae>
kvm would probably be the best
08:20
or something like openvz
08:21
<Appiah>
vmware mighty-d
08:22
<anivair>
fixed ... sort of? I rep laced the thin client with a new one of the same model and it works. So either the old one was dying or they have changed some of the hardware on them since the last batch I bought (which was, admittedly, about 2 years ago)
08:22
<nubae>
well vmware is like virtualbox... the free version at least is not as fast as something like kvm
08:23
<mighty-d>
nubae, ok i think i will go with kvm, guys i really appreciate your help
08:23
<Appiah>
I would go xen
08:23
<nubae>
or xen yes
08:23
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
08:23
<Appiah>
virtualbox is more "desktopish"
08:23
<nubae>
those are solutions that use the cpu directly to virtualise
08:24
<Appiah>
thought it can run headless
08:24
<nubae>
vmaware and virtualbox dont
08:24
<Appiah>
umm
08:24
Vmware what?
08:24
<nubae>
the free version that is
08:24
<Appiah>
there are tons of different vmware solutions
08:24
Vmware server?
08:24
<nubae>
commercial vmware does support cpu hypervisor directly
08:24
<Appiah>
Vmware Workstation (kind of like Virtualbox)
08:24
<nubae>
yeah
08:24
<Appiah>
ESXi supports cpu hypervisor
08:24
<nubae>
server is probably different
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08:25
<Appiah>
and thats free...
08:25
<nubae>
ok.. u know what I mean :-)
08:25
<Appiah>
no I dont seriously
08:25
<nubae>
I was being general, thats why I said some versions of vmware
08:25
<mighty-d>
heh
08:25
<nubae>
the most common ones /free ones in fact
08:26
<Appiah>
Virtualbox supports VT-x and such so it can speak directly to the cpu
08:26
<nubae>
yes but there are limitations
08:26
it doesnt do it in the same way as kvm or asxi
08:26
or xen
08:27
search for an article in llinux format about 3 or 4 months back
08:27
it explains it better than I can
08:27
<Appiah>
well you can get better performance from vmware and xen , then from vbox
08:28
<nubae>
agreed
08:28
though not vmware workstation or player
08:32
<mighty-d>
do you think it has a *lot* of benefits to go with 4 core xeon vs quad core ?
08:32
the price is outrageous!
08:38
<nubae>
depends for what, but if u have a large lab, u sure will notice the difference
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08:40
<mighty-d>
nubae its for an ltsp deployment with 30 clients or so...
08:40
virtualized
08:40
<nubae>
overkill then imho
08:40
<markit>
hi, I'm trying to login in a different GNU/Linux host than the ltsp server. I've lts.conf with something like: [00:1F:D0:B1:3C:7C] LDM_SERVER = 192.168.1.75 SCREEN_08 = ldm
08:41
and I've set Xdmcp true in /etc/kde4/kdm/kdmrc and * host in /etc/kde4/kdm/Xaccess
08:41
<mighty-d>
the server will also virtualize a router + ids, and a ldap server, and in a future a web app server
08:41
in think thats it
08:41
<markit>
but after username/password, I get the error ""This workstation isn't autorized to connect to the server" any clue?
08:41
<mighty-d>
nubae ^
08:41
<anivair>
anyone know, off hand, if the 1220 model thin client is a lot different now than it was last year or so? If not, i'm guessing mine have just gone bad somehow in the move.
08:44
<markit>
looks like is a ssh key problems (do I have to add the other host ssh keys in ltsp server?) or I should use a different connection way (I would like to have "pure" X-Window one)
08:44
<Gadi>
markit: you need to add the application server's public key to the chroot's known hosts
08:45
(and reroll the image)
08:46
markit: grab the latest version of ltsp-update-sshkeys: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/download/head%3A/x_Matt_Zimmerman_%3Cmatt.zimmerman%40canonical.com%3E_Wed_Jun__8_11%3A11%3A43_2005_3120.0/ltsp-update-sshkeys
08:46
<mighty-d>
nubae, thanks a lot... you have been very helpful
08:47
:)
08:47
<Gadi>
replace the one on the ltsp server (in /usr/sbin/)
08:47
<markit>
Gadi: any way to connect with normal X way? (no through ssh), would be much simpler (I'm not very expert)
08:47
<mighty-d>
Appiah thanks to you too
08:47
<Gadi>
markit: and run: ltsp-update-sshkeys -u <ip_of_app_server>
08:47
markit: you can, but you lose almost all the benefits of ltsp: localdev, localapps, sound, etc
08:48
<markit>
oh :(
08:48
<Gadi>
s/ltsp/ldm/
08:49
<markit>
I ask because I've logged with Xephyr in that server, so thought was easy do the same with thin clients
08:49
to be sincere, I just need to develop Ruby on rails app there, so no need of sound etc.
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08:50
<markit>
Gadi: I will follow your advice, but just for curiosity, do you know how use the other connection way? (simple X-Window)
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08:51
<Comete_>
hello again
08:51
<Gadi>
markit: SCREEN_07=startx or SCREEN_07=xdmcp
08:52
<Comete_>
is it possible to disable visual effects in gnome for all thinclients ?
08:52
<markit>
ltsp-update-sshkeys from chroot or from normal ltsp server?
08:52
when ssh keys changed in my server, I did not in chroot
08:52
(btw,I'm using debian)
08:53
<Comete_>
markit: from ltsp server
08:53
<markit>
Comete_: thanks
08:54
I just misinterpreted Gadi words
08:57
mm my version had no -u option, sigh, and I'm not happy trying to grab and install latest version
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08:58
<tthorb>
Hi,
08:59
The solution for the freezing clients with intel video card has worked out.
08:59
It's been steady for a week now.
09:00
Another thing that is bugging me...
09:00
Is there some way to speed up Java?
09:01
A minute of waiting is a bit too much for the least patient ones...
09:01
I have a 64-bit server and 32-bit clients
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09:01
<laron_>
Have you looked at http://www.disklessworkstations.com/
09:01
<tthorb>
I've tried to use localapps, but it's still slow
09:02
<laron_>
(nevermind me)
09:02
<markit>
found an howto, thanks a lot for the tips, I will never have been able to figure out I think
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09:09
<markit>
mmm that howto is like the other host is a ltsp server itself, but is not
09:10
and keys created with simple ssh user@host and added in .ssh/known_hosts has a different format
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09:36
<sbalneav>
Morning all
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09:54
<jammcq>
Gooood morning #ltsp
09:56
<nubae>
ipsa scientia potestas est
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09:59
<alkisg>
nubae: sorry I was just leaving when you spoke - need anything?
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10:06
<alkisg>
johnny: here's a better way to have access to local devices for fat clients: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/revision/1250
10:07
With this, you can revert any policy changes you made..
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10:16
<nubae>
alkisg: cant remember now... oh yeah... wanted u to look at a logo if u have time,.. its for a school... need some creative input... but if u are very busy dont worry about it...
10:17
<alkisg>
My artistic skill are limited, I don't know if I could be of any use for that :)
10:17
<ogra>
everyone is an artist - joseph beuys
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10:25
<nubae>
alkisg: its more the fact that you are a teacher and could tell if this would be suitable for a school
10:25
<alkisg>
nubae, link?
10:25
<nubae>
let me upload to flicker hang on
10:25
<alkisg>
is it the one with the penguins?
10:26
<nubae>
ah, no... this is completely different
10:26
this is for the school I'm setting up
10:26
Its called Gnosis
10:26
which is knowledge in latin if I'm not mistaken
10:27
sorry greek
10:27
<alkisg>
Γνώσις :)
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10:27
<nubae>
there is another reason I wanted u to look at it, u'll see why soon...
10:27
<alkisg>
There are so many words that are considered as latin, while they're greek...
10:27
E.g. skolelinux says it's latin
10:27
Σχολή is greek...
10:27
<nubae>
gnosis is definetly greek though
10:28
I got mixed up because I have a latin saying underneath
10:28
which I would like to change to something greek... u'll see what I mean in a sec
10:29
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48075308@N05/4425238990/
10:29
<alkisg>
Cool
10:29
<nubae>
the latin in the diploma script says knowledge is power... is there something similar in greek or something better like, learning to learn or something
10:30
<alkisg>
It's fine - I'd just work a little on the diploma..
10:30
<nubae>
ok...
10:30
yeah gonna fill it in, I tried that already and it worked a bit better
10:30
but I was wondering about putting a greek saying there instead of latin
10:30
since the name itself is greek
10:30
any ideas?
10:31
<alkisg>
"Ισχύς διά της γνώσεως" is the ancient greek equivelant - but I don't know if anyone will understand it without using google.. ;D
10:31
<nubae>
not in cyrillic though
10:31
:-)
10:31
I'd want it phonetically latin
10:31
alphabet
10:31
<MorpheusDe>
alksig: Hi - Another question regarding thin vs thick clients - As I've already said a couple days ago I do not really like installing so much on the ltsp machine itself but
10:32
<alkisg>
That's hard.. let me try: ISCHIS DIA TIS GNOSEOS
10:32
<nubae>
hehe, that sounds good in any case
10:33
<MorpheusDe>
alksig: unfortunately it dit not work to install the ubuntu-desktop into the jail itself - What is actually modified and the exact difference when installing an app as local app within the jail than on the server?
10:33
<nubae>
I looked all over the web for some place that has greek sayings but with a latin alphabet... couldnt find anything
10:33
<alkisg>
MorpheusDe: did you follow the wiki page?
10:33
<MorpheusDe>
alksig: In other words why can't you install something like the whole ubuntu-desktop as local app?
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10:34
<alkisg>
Sure you can. You just need to mark the chroot as a fat client, though, i.e. touch /etc/ltsp_fat_chroot
10:34
Or, you could set LTSP_FATCLIENT=True in lts.conf
10:34
In other words, LTSP_FATCLIENT by default is true, if /etc/ltsp_fat_chroot exists, false otherwise, and of course can be overriden by lts.conf
10:35
<MorpheusDe>
but this only works starting 5.2, right?
10:35
<alkisg>
Yes
10:35
When LTSP_FATCLIENT is true, a local session is started instead of a remote one
10:36
<MorpheusDe>
Define session exactly, please
10:36
<alkisg>
The X session, after you login in ldm
10:37
<MorpheusDe>
you said you would go for a thick client in case the client is > 500 RAM and thin in case it's less
10:37
<alkisg>
Instead of running a remote x session on the ltsp server, a local x session is started
10:37
That's what I do, yup - others might have different advice
10:37
<MorpheusDe>
is this sort of paradigm change or just a matter of taste?
10:38GodFather has quit IRC
10:38
<MorpheusDe>
you were faster :-)
10:38
<alkisg>
In my experience, clients with 1 Gb RAM run better as fat clients, while clients with 256 ram run better as thin clients
10:39
But, it always depends on the use cases..
10:40
<MorpheusDe>
Just to really understand the concept - Thick client --> Full blown os only served by the ltsp via network, no RDP session, own x-session, thin client --> minimal os served by ltsp just to boot up
10:40
anything else via rdp on the server, right?
10:40
<alkisg>
Yes, though it's not called rdp but remote X
10:43
<MorpheusDe>
I'm planning on moving to the next lts version of ubuntu but would like to use the fat client concept alreday. Do you think I'll run into trouble using stgraber's repo upgrading to 5.2 and afterwards upgrading to the new ubuntu lts release?
10:43
Probably I'm than already ahead with lts than the regular version served with the standard repos...
10:44
<alkisg>
You'd upgrade the karmic chroot to lucid instead of running ltsp-build-client again? It should work, but I wouldn't do it this way...
10:45
<MorpheusDe>
Ahm the chroot only? According to your thick client wiki article I've got to upgrade the ltsp machine itself
10:46
What would you reccommend?
10:46thunsucker has quit IRC
10:47
<alkisg>
I don't know your use case, I can't recommend something... other than the standard thing, i.e. to use the stable version and regenerate the chroot when you upgrade the newer version
10:47
Personally, for my school, I'd go for Lucid, but would be extra careful on updates.
10:48
<MorpheusDe>
Maybe we're not talking about the exact same thing here - So you would already upgrade the whole distro to lucid first?
10:49
I mean using Karmic but with the upstream repo
10:50
<alkisg>
I think we're talking about the same thing, yes
10:50
I'd upgrade to lucid first. But that's just me. I'm not proposing that you'd do the same - it's up to you..
10:50
<MorpheusDe>
I can't wait till lucid stable is out - Probably I'll have no prob if I use Kamic, the upstream repo, later upgrade to lucid, then remove ltsp and the upstream repo and install again
10:51
would only have to re-gen the clients...
10:51
By the way - The command add-apt-repository ppa:stgraber mentioned in your article did not work at all for me - The tool add-apt-repository hung up on every exec....
10:51
<alkisg>
It hung up?
10:52
If it hangs, file a bug - it worked fine for me when I had karmic
10:52
<MorpheusDe>
Yupp - dead console - only closing helped
10:52
Had to add the repo manually
10:53
Adding the key using sudo apt-key export E7716B13 | sudo tee /etc/ltsp/stgraber.asc did not work too - I had to gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net –recv-keys E7716B13
10:53
Afterwards apt-key add /home/morpheus/.gnupg/pubring.gpg
10:54
<alkisg>
You put it in your home key? That doesn't sound right...
10:54
<MorpheusDe>
And finally apt-key export E7716B13 | sudo tee /etc/ltsp/stgraber.asc
10:55
Only way I was able to add the key and get the new thick client feature going
10:55
<alkisg>
There's a tutorial on how to add ppa keys on launchpad
10:55
(if you need to do that manually)
10:56
<MorpheusDe>
sudo apt-key export E7716B13 | sudo tee /etc/ltsp/stgraber.asc produced an empty file only
10:56
Thx - will google for the tutorial...
10:57
A question regarding italc - Do you know whether it's possible to have the master workstation on a different subnet than the clients?
10:57
<alkisg>
It's on every ppa page
10:57
(the link for the tutorial)
10:57
<MorpheusDe>
Ok thx
10:58
<alkisg>
Yes, you just lose autodetection and need to declare them manually
10:58
<MorpheusDe>
Hmm - so like right click in the class room manager and than select add client?
10:59
<alkisg>
Yes
10:59
<MorpheusDe>
I was not able to get that working....
10:59
<alkisg>
Or you could just save the autodetected clients before moving to a different subnet
10:59
<MorpheusDe>
The only thing I have to have open is port 5900 right?
11:00
<alkisg>
For ltsp? No, the ports are in the 11xxx range
11:00
and in 10xxx
11:00
<MorpheusDe>
I can telnet to the client using a console and port 5900 but italc does not connect...
11:01
<alkisg>
MorpheusDe: I'm in the middle of something, so I don't have much time to help you troubleshoot italc... maybe someone else does have the time though, so ask in general
11:02
<MorpheusDe>
no biggie - basically thing's are running right now - may I get back to you some other time?
11:03
<alkisg>
Usually we ask in the channel, and whoever's available or knows the answer, answers... but sure, np
11:03
<MorpheusDe>
thx
11:08
Can some one else maybe point me to another resource or provide any more hints on the italc / thin client / different sub net combo?
11:35
<kusznir>
I've got an off-topic question that someone here might be able to help me (all the "normal" places don't seem to be much help):
11:36
I'm trying to build a new ltsp server, and that server needs to authenticate against an active directory server. I've got samba and winbind configured (with the nsswitch and pam mods as well), and users can ssh in with their AD accounts just fine.
11:36
<johnny>
alkisg, i can wait til the next ppa is rolled i suppose :)
11:36
i don't need to try to already fix it
11:36
<alkisg>
ok
11:36
<kusznir>
However, whenever an AD user logs in, the X session starts to launch, gets most of the panel drawn, and then gets logged out.
11:37
<ogra>
did you check the log ?
11:37
<kusznir>
I haven't found any traces of error messages of use except in .xsession-errors, and those are tons of warnings from a variety of applications not being able to connect or get messages from dbus / system bus.
11:37
<ogra>
right
11:38
so there is your prob
11:38
(no idea how to solve it though, i have no clue about AD)
11:38
<kusznir>
So...I'm guessing that dbus is the problem, but I can't seem to find anyone who can tell me anything about why dbus isn't letting them connect). I can't find any info on how dbus "authenticates" users, or anyting like that.
11:39
The AD users appear as "normal users" on the system; getent passwd will show a convincing passwd file with all the users listed, etc.
11:39
<ogra>
all IPC is dont through dbus nowadays, usually a session dbus is fired up when the user logs in
11:39
s/dont/done/
11:39
<kusznir>
Oh, its not the main dbus that starts at system boot?
11:39
<ogra>
no, that provides system services
11:40
i.e. access to devices
11:40
the session bus connects to it
11:40
<kusznir>
Ok. Can you provide any details about when/how the session dbus is started or where to look for that process?
11:40
<ogra>
well, in case of a gnome session the gnome-session bianry fires up the session bus
11:40
*binary
11:41
not sure where other desktops do it
11:43
<kusznir>
This is a gnome session.
11:44* Gadi thought that session dbus was started with /etc/X11/Xsession.d/75dbus_dbus-launch
11:44
<ogra>
Gadi, that was in feisty or so
11:45
<kusznir>
This is 9.10
11:45
<ogra>
it should be started by gnome-session since a while
11:45
<Gadi>
huh - so much for dist-upgrades :P
11:45
<johnny>
hmm.. i wish ltsp would stop being so annoying if you had bad video drivers or bad autologin passwords :(
11:46
<ogra>
hmm, i have it in lucid too
11:46
<johnny>
i can never get to the console
11:46
it just keeps flashing
11:46
<ogra>
so i'm probably misinformed and it was reverted
11:49
<kusznir>
johnny: it should give up after ~10 tries or so, and give you a couple minutes to get in :)
11:49
ogra: yes, I see I have that file as well...and it calls "/usr/bin/dbus-launch". I launched it on an SSH session of an AD user and it launched just fine.
11:50
<johnny>
kusznir, that is not the case that i've seen..
11:50
especially when autologin is failing :)
11:50
<kusznir>
Ahh...autologin might be the problem, especially with ldm...
11:50
<alkisg>
Shouldn't there be a parameter for "autologin only once" ?
11:52
<kusznir>
If X is just dying, then it should back off...But if X is starting successfully and then something else is killing it, especially if its alive for some minimum time (30 sec? 10 sec?) then it won't auto-backoff.
11:52
<johnny>
exactly
11:52
alkisg, see.. i was using key auth before
11:53
that definitely doesn't work if you're using a fat client
11:53
<alkisg>
johnny: what do you mean "key auth"? ssh key auth?
11:53
You're putting your private keys on the chroot?
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11:55
<johnny>
alkisg, yes, i was at the time
11:55
until i found a decent password generator
11:55
originally i was slightly hacked
11:55
in that somebody remotely logged in to a user account and setup a bouncer
11:56
when i was doing the LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD as host name
11:58
<kusznir>
Ok, if I start an X session with "XDM" (aka "failsafe") instead of "gnome", how do I manually kick off a gnome session inside that?
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12:06
<kusznir>
Ok, I ran Xsession, and that started up gnome. I got some errors this way (including a segfault that I don't know what belongs to it)
12:06
<nubae>
alkisg: how would u say "because knowledge should be free
12:06
<Gadi>
kusznir: how are you connecting to AD?
12:06
<nubae>
in greek
12:06
non-cyrillic
12:06
<Gadi>
likewise-open?
12:09
<alkisg>
nubae: GIATI I GNOSI PREPEI NA EINAI ELEFTHERI
12:10
<kusznir>
Gadi: using samba + winbind; closely followed http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=91510
12:10
<nubae>
alkisg: can u give me the exact translation of that phrase
12:10
os is it already exact?
12:10
<alkisg>
"because knowledge must be free (as in freedom)"
12:11
<nubae>
yeah the problem with that quote is the beer thing
12:11
maybe because learning should be free
12:12
or... learning is an unalienable right
12:12
<alkisg>
In greek we have separate words for beer / freedom, so there's no mixup
12:12
free as in beer = DOREAN, free as in freedom = ELEFTHERI...
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12:14
<nubae>
Ior something like learn to be free
12:14
gah duuno
12:14
<Gadi>
kusznir: it looks like with this recipe, your AD users can get uids between 500-1000
12:14
kusznir: this may be problematic on ubuntu
12:15
kusznir: perhaps you should increase the minimum above 1000
12:15
<kusznir>
I did change a few things, and that's one of them.
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12:15
<kusznir>
Actually, I just realized I sent the wrong link...https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ActiveDirectoryWinbindHowto
12:15
And I used the "rid" instructions toward the end. My UID/GID mapping is 10000-20000
12:16
The "newer syntax" section is actually broke; I used the block above it under "Adding more htan one linux machine to a windows network"
12:17
<laron>
We have a Windows 2008 Server hosting all our files. I'd like to make a link for every user to be able to access the files. Do I do accomplish that by editing the new user skeleton or by editing the ltsp image in some way
12:17
?
12:19
<kusznir>
laron: editing /etc/skel will only make it effective for new acounts created; you'd need to write a script to add it to all existing accounts as well as add it to /etc/skel.
12:19
laron: my understanding of what you want to do would need to be done on the server, not the clients.
12:22
<alkisg>
laron: maybe you could do that with an /etc/xdg/autostart script
12:22
<Gadi>
laron: you may want to use the pam_mount method described on this page (unless the share is public): https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ActiveDirectoryIntegration
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12:22
<alkisg>
Heh
12:23
<Gadi>
kusznir: I doubt your problem is dbus related
12:24
kusznir: but, I could be wrong
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12:25
<kusznir>
Well, I'm aslo chatting over in #gnome, and just did some testing. It appears that dbus packets are somehow getting addressed to (null destination)....don't know why/where. It does appear that dbus is launching correctly and remaining launched.
12:26
Although I do agree that this should not be a factor of the dbus issue, but something with winbind/samba. Nobody over in #samba is being any help, though.
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12:26
<kusznir>
The main thing people use this configuration for is gui logins, too...so I don't know why its blowing up so bad on me...
12:28
<alkisg>
kusznir: I'm not good on pam stuff, but it seems to me that you need both auth + session pam, and you're missing the session pam...
12:28
I may be saying stupid things, though.
12:28
<kusznir>
I was wondering about that...they did have me add the mkhomedir to the pam session file, but nothing with winbind.
12:33
<Gadi>
kusznir: I have been using likewise-open for such deployments without issue
12:33
(ie without dbus issues)
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12:41
<laron>
how do i disable the terminal for ltsp clients?
12:41
or just remove it from the menu
12:41
(only for clients)
12:45
is this a dumb question?
12:46
<johnny>
sabayon is the way to go
12:46
!sabayon
12:46
<ltspbot>
johnny: Error: "sabayon" is not a valid command.
12:46
<johnny>
sbalneav, what should i type to point to your ppa for versions earlier than lucid?
12:46
<Appiah>
if you run gnome use the lockdown tools for gnome
12:46
or sabayon
12:47
<johnny>
laron, you need to get it from sbalneav's ppa on launchpad if you want to use it in karmic or earlier
12:47
<laron>
ok
13:00
<alkisg>
gconf_editor ==> /desktop/gnome/lockdown/disable_command_line ==> right click and set as the default. Selected admins can enable it manually.
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13:23
<alkisg>
Yup, nfs home is much better for fat clients... evolution works fine with it.
13:33
...and google earth and google chrome. So an NFS_HOME=xxx option would be nice to have for localapps/fat clients...
13:52
<vagrantc>
was nice to have it all working through the ssh tunnel ... *sigh*
13:53
<alkisg>
well, if sshfs starts supporting file locks and null cipher etc, we may remove nfs support then
13:54
<vagrantc>
the speed is also too slow?
13:54
<alkisg>
nfs feels faster than sshfs, but I haven't tried with anything big yet
13:55
I think sshfs would be limited by my cpu to 5 mb/sec, while nfs would be limited by my disk/net speed...
13:56
OK, so: NFS_HOME=/home or <ip>:/home in lts.conf. If <ip> is not set, $SERVER will be used.
13:56
The admin is expected to install nfs-kernel-server and modify /etc/exports,
13:57
and set LATE_PACKAGES=nfs-client on ltsp-build-client.conf
13:57
It shouldn't take more than 10 lines in the current code...
14:00
<thunsucker>
has anyone used an usb bridge that you guys have heard about?
14:00
I'm trying to test out the theory of using a wireless bridge to boot wireless ltsp clients
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14:07
<vagrantc>
thunsucker: you'll still have very limited bandwidth for the thin clients... as all the clients share the same airwaves.
14:07
<thunsucker>
vagrantc: i understand that, and each client will be getting their own bridge
14:07
1 for 1
14:07
our building is absolutely saturated with 30+ cisco WAPs
14:08
<vagrantc>
well, *all* the bridges share the same bandwidth...
14:09
putting more wireless traffic in the air doesn't increase the amount of available bandwidth...
14:09
maybe for the purposes you're doing, it will be acceptible, but it's going to be a significant limitation
14:10
<thunsucker>
vagrantc: I don't see why it cause any problems, the clients might be a little slower to boot, but shouldn't be that bad
14:10
<kusznir>
thunsucker: its not just the booting..its actually streaming all the window updates and the like.
14:11
<vagrantc>
thunsucker: the entire graphical session goes over the network... every mouse move, every moving object on the screen, etc. all goes over the wireless...
14:11
<kusznir>
In my experiences, in order to support decent flash performance, I need to run about 250mbps per client. You will only get 10% of that on wifi under good conditions.
14:11litlebuda has quit IRC
14:11
<thunsucker>
ahhh I see what you guys are saying now
14:12
<kusznir>
And on 802.11(g), there are only three non-overlapping channels. Thus, if you have more than 3 APs in a space that can "see" each other, you're impeeding yoru own throughput.
14:12
(I have a real problem when people install a bunch of APs in a small area and expect that to "handle the load better"....)
14:12
<thunsucker>
kusznir: no I understand, from about any point in the building you can see 2-4 AP's
14:13
<kusznir>
thunsucker: if you were making netbooting thick clients (most/all programs/apps run locally), then you might get acceptable performance.
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14:13
<thunsucker>
i never thought about the wireless throughput problem, they do a lot of flash type learning games
14:13
<laron>
should i expect any problems running the ltsp server on a 64 bit machine with 32 bit clients? i'm assuming no
14:13
<kusznir>
However, in my experience, its always better to wire than go wireless....occasionally wireless does have issues, and its far more often than wired.
14:14
laron: no, I'm doing that now.
14:14
<thunsucker>
kusznir: right now they're th in clients but I'm thinking about converting some of them to fat clients
14:14
<laron>
ok, thanks
14:14
<thunsucker>
kusznir: i agree wired is better, but this customer had a ton of funding from the government (it's a school) to put the wireless in, and now the government is frowning upon adding any more drops
14:15
<laron>
would anyone have recomendations for thin clients? right now i'm looking at the ones on disklessworkstations.com
14:15
<kusznir>
If this is 802.11(g), I think your customer will be sorely dissapointed with the performance.
14:15
I'm coming pretty darn close to saturating a gig-e link right now with my ~15 thin clients...You'll never get that over wifi.
14:16
laron: no experience there. I've been running Devon IT TC-5's...they're a bit expensive ($320/ea), but they're solid and powerful (and can run 1920x1080 DVI with intel graphics acceleration)
14:17
But there's lots of options out there....
14:17
Anyway, gotta go to a meeting...afk for a while.
14:17
<thunsucker>
kusznir: the only different is that i'm running the rdesktop screen script
14:17
<laron>
just wondering if there are any particular ones that are know to be good machines
14:18
known*
14:18alkisg has joined #ltsp
14:20
<thunsucker>
laron: wait for CAN-OH-SPAM or something like that, he works for them
14:20
laron: I also think usupur or something like works for them also
14:20
laron: never hurts to call, those guys are good
14:21
<laron>
alright
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16:00
<alkisg>
LOCAL_APPS is true by default, right? Because `man lts.conf` states that it is false...
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16:10
<laron>
yes but if you haven't installed any applications to run locally, then no apps will run locally
16:10
sorry, your making a statement?
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16:13
<ogra>
laron, the documentation is out of sync is his statement
16:18
<alkisg>
ogra understands greek people... :D
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16:18
<ogra>
alkisg, we sync the ltsp-docs package from debian ...
16:19
which is surely behind in lenny :)
16:19
make sure vagrantc knows ;)
16:19
<alkisg>
Hmm you think sbalneav fixed that? k, I'll take a look tomorrow
16:25
OK, here it is - NFS /home support for localapps and fat clients, enables some programs that need file locks to run locally: http://paste.ubuntu.com/393587/
16:26
If noone objects, I'd like to commit that...
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16:39
<vagrantc>
there is no ltsp-docs in lenny
16:39
what's in squeeze is only a few commits behind trunk
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16:46
<akuepker_>
Has anybody dealt with Ubuntu problems where LDM blocks logins and dbus hits 100% CPU?
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17:05
<laron>
if i install firefox instensions on the server will they be accessable on the client machines?
17:07
<abeehc>
if you do it right, yep
17:07
and you are not using localapps
17:08
<laron>
i am using local apps
17:08
but do i need to isntall through chroot?
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17:09
<abeehc>
yeah
17:09
what i do
17:09
is install the extension as a user
17:11
then just copy the resulting folder from .mozilla-thunderbird/*.default/extensions/{sadfsadfdsafa guid?}
17:11
to the system level extensions folder /usr/lib/thunderbird/extensions
17:11
in both server and chroot
17:12
which doesn't exactly follow these instructions http://kb.mozillazine.org/Installing_extensions
17:12
you might need to adjust perms but it works good for me
17:17
<laron>
k
17:18
thanks, i'll give it a shot
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17:22
<laron>
use /usr/lib/firefox-addons/plugins
17:22
?
17:23
<abeehc>
oops
17:23
yeah i was talkin tbird wasn't i hehe
17:24
uhm
17:25
<laron>
mk
17:25
<abeehc>
i don't think it's that folder
17:25
are you talking extensions, or plugins?
17:25
<laron>
oh
17:25
extensions would just be "cd ../extensions"
17:25
its an add-on called telify
17:26
<abeehc>
you'll have to experiment
17:26
<laron>
a skype plugin for firefox to turn number on the web into clickable skype
17:26
<abeehc>
/usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions
17:26
but that could be it
17:26
<laron>
k, i hate having to rebuild the image every time though
17:26
<abeehc>
well on the client
17:26
<laron>
everytime i make a change
17:26
<abeehc>
just run the remote ff to test
17:26
no need to rebuild in that case
17:27
i think
17:27
<laron>
alright, i'll work on it. thanks for the help
17:27
<abeehc>
good luck
17:28
<laron>
thanks, later
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21:01
<jammcq>
hey hey
21:04
<mgariepy>
hey jammcq
21:04
how do you do ?
21:05
<jammcq>
hey mgariepy
21:05
i'm doing fine. how are you doing?
21:05
<mgariepy>
i'm doing fine too
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21:33
<_Techie_>
i just installed ubuntu 9.10 LTSP via the alternative CD, and added the "interface eth1;" line into /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and clients are recieving IP's but are unable to connect to tFPT
21:33
tFTP*
21:33
<jammcq>
on that server, you have both a eth0 and a eth1 ?
21:34
<_Techie_>
yes
21:34
<jammcq>
what IP addresses did you use for each interface?
21:35
<_Techie_>
eth0 is dhcp @ 192.168.1.101 and eth1 is manualy set to 192.168.0.1
21:35
<jammcq>
hmmm, both with 255.255.255.0 for a netmask?
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21:42
<_Techie_>
might that cause a problem?
21:45
<jammcq>
did you see my last question about netmask?
21:45
<_Techie_>
yes
21:45
<jammcq>
22:35 < jammcq> hmmm, both with 255.255.255.0 for a netmask?
21:45
<_Techie_>
i replied yes
21:45
<jammcq>
that's fine
21:45
hmm, never saw the 'yes'. Looks like you had a connection issue
21:46
<_Techie_>
my connection dropped when i disabled my routers DHCP server
21:46
<jammcq>
anyway, it's a common problem that people would set the 2 interfaces on the same class-c, but that doesn't appear to be your problem
21:47
<_Techie_>
do you know what service the TFTP server is under in /etc/init.d/?
21:47
<jammcq>
it's been a long time since I did any troubleshooting so I'm a bit rusty here
21:47
tftpd is usually running from inetd
21:47
try: netstat -anp | grep ":69 "
21:47
see if anything is listening on port 69
21:48
<_Techie_>
one sec
21:48
just rebuilding the image
21:48
<jammcq>
k
21:48
<_Techie_>
extra info, this is all happenign inside a VM on the same network (both adaptors are bridged to the same device)
21:49
<jammcq>
hmm
21:50
<_Techie_>
dup 0 0.0.0.0.0:69 0.0.0.0:*
21:50
udp*
21:50
<jammcq>
hmm, looks good
21:50
so you have a virtual LTSP server and you've defined 2 interfaces both bound to the same physical interface?
21:51
<_Techie_>
yes
21:51
<jammcq>
how about the client, is it real or virtual?
21:51
<_Techie_>
client is virtual during testing
21:52
im setting up a machine for my brother to use to browse the net
21:52
but im out of hard drives
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22:03
<_Techie_>
jammcq, i ran a tcpdump on eth1 and found where the client was requesting the tftp
22:04
however there is no reply that i can see
22:04
<jammcq>
k, any clues?
22:04
is the tftp request going to the correct interface?
22:05
<_Techie_>
IP 192.168.0.20.2073 > 0.0.0.0.tftp: 38 RRQ "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0" octet tsize 0
22:06
<jammcq>
hmm
22:06
why's it goint o 0.0.0.0 ?
22:06
<_Techie_>
no clue
22:06
<jammcq>
s/goint o/going to/
22:06
<_Techie_>
nothing i assigned
22:06
<jammcq>
do you have a 'next-server' entry in your dhcpd.conf file?
22:06
<_Techie_>
its in there but commented out
22:07
<jammcq>
try setting it to 192.168.0.1
22:07
<_Techie_>
ill just uncomment it then
22:08
ooh
22:08
it seems to be working
22:08
<jammcq>
oh?
22:08
<_Techie_>
it tried to load its pxelinux configs then picked up the default as it should
22:09
loaded vmlinuz and now loading initrd.img
22:09
and there we are
22:09
<jammcq>
yeah. normal behaviour a long time ago for dhcpd was to default next-server to be the same IP address as the dhcp server, but then the ISC guys changed it
22:10
<_Techie_>
the other thing i want to ask requires someone with knowledge of DHCP servers on linksys routers
22:10
<jammcq>
I argued with them about it, but they said it wasn't "conforming to the rfc", so, we ended up having to set next-server
22:10
then, the ubuntu guys patched dhcpd to revert to the old behaviour
22:10* jammcq knows nothing about dhcpd on linksys routers
22:11
<jammcq>
you'd need a way to tell the dhcp on the linksys to send a 'filename' entry
22:11
and a 'next-server'
22:11
<_Techie_>
woah
22:11
<jammcq>
so the client will know what host to grab what file from
22:11
<_Techie_>
ubuntu 9.10 LTSP client login screen is 500x better than the actual thing
22:12
<jammcq>
500x ?
22:12
i'd say that's pretty good
22:12
<_Techie_>
it looks awesome compared to what they chose for the login screen
22:12
<jammcq>
heh
22:12
i'm not sure what the Ubuntu artwork guys are thinking
22:14
<_Techie_>
is there a way to run LTSP via cygwin?
22:14
<jammcq>
well... LTSP is an operating system that gets downloaded to a thin client, so it can run X to connect back to the server.
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22:15
<jammcq>
what you need is an Xserver on windows to connect to the server
22:15
assuming you want cygwin so that you can connect to a Linux server
22:15
<_Techie_>
other way around
22:15
<jammcq>
how so?
22:15
<_Techie_>
i want to remove the LTSP server from being in a VM
22:15
my base system is windows7
22:16
<jammcq>
so you want Windows to serve up LTSP to the thin client?
22:16
<_Techie_>
yes
22:16
<jammcq>
and what kind of desktop environment do you want the user to see, Linux or Windows ?
22:16
<_Techie_>
linux
22:16
<jammcq>
I think vmware is your only hope
22:17
there's too many services needed to try to serve those things from Windows
22:17
you need dhcp, tftp, nbd and X
22:17
at a minimum
22:18
<_Techie_>
darn
22:18
if i wasnt selling one of my machines i could set up a dedicated LTSP server
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22:34
<_Techie_>
actually, i might do that
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22:38
<_Techie_>
just my luck, one of my machines cant PXE boot that i can see and the ethernet adapter on the other one seems to be faulty\
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23:10
<_Techie_>
jammcq, i thankyou for your help earlier, everyint is running perfectly now and now i know what to do to set it up in future
23:10
everything*
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23:50
<_Techie_>
!help
23:50
<ltspbot`>
_Techie_: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.