IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 10 November 2012   (all times are UTC)

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00:37
<mangus580>
can LTSP be run using an 'external' dhcp server, and not the one on the machine hosting LTSP?
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03:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: just a couple bugfixes from ltsp-trunk, and wheezy works great for the ltsp-pnp style images
03:17
<alkisg>
vagrantc: cool - what fixes?
03:17
Ah, from trunk - ok
03:18
<vagrantc>
ltsp-config needs a couple echo -> printf
03:18
not just to comply with policy, it's actually broken
03:18
<mangus580>
either of you 2 see my question from before?
03:19
<alkisg>
vagrantc: hmmm what part is broken? I don't think I've seen it in installations here...
03:19
mangus580: yes, it's possible. Tell your dhcp server to send next-server==the ltsp server
03:19
<vagrantc>
"ltsp-config dnsmasq" failed to sed properly
03:20
it's probably cuz i had half a dozen networks available, rather than just one.
03:20
fixing the bashisms fixed it though
03:20
<mangus580>
alkisg: do I turn the server off on the ltsp machine?
03:20
<alkisg>
vagrantc: did you have this included in the wheezy version? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2371
03:20
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you had committed one of the fixes back in september
03:20
alkisg: yeah, that's the one i neede
03:21
d
03:21
<alkisg>
Nice
03:21
<vagrantc>
plus the recent one
03:21
<alkisg>
mangus580: dhcp off, tftp on (on the ltsp server)
03:21
<mangus580>
ok
03:21
where are the settings for that?
03:21
<alkisg>
Depending on distro/version/installation method, you might not have installed a dhcp server at all
03:22
If you did, just uninstall the package
03:22
<mangus580>
edubuntu
03:23
<vagrantc>
alkisg: oh, and it still has the issue with a separate boot partition, probably due to differentce in aufs/overlayfs
03:23
<alkisg>
mangus580: You didn't specify the other two though, ../version/installation method. Anyway have a look at this page to get the idea: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP
03:25
vagrantc: that'd be a bit difficult for me to reproduce it, if you could hunt it down yourself it'd be nice... /me isn't using a separate /boot partition in any of his systems...
03:25
<mangus580>
alkisg: brb, on the phone
03:26
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the filesystem gets mounted and everything works fine, but mksquashfs doesn't pick up the sub-mounts...
03:26
<alkisg>
Ah
03:27
<vagrantc>
at least, i think that's what's happening
03:27
<alkisg>
...I'm guessing the submounts aren't mounted?
03:28
<vagrantc>
they're mounted
03:28
no need to troubleshoot it at this point- it works for the typical use-case... just need to document it somewhere
03:29
<alkisg>
Then it sounds like aufs can't handle submounts on the bottom layer... which would be difficult to troubleshoot, yeah...
03:29
OK
03:30
<vagrantc>
might just be an option to pass to aufs, maybe...
03:31
i guess we'd have to mount them each with their own aufs?
03:32
<alkisg>
I don't think so... if it can't see bind-mounts, why would it see aufs-mounts in the bottom layer?
03:34
http://aufs.sourceforge.net/aufs2/man.html#Branch%20Syntax
03:34
If you specify such filesystems as an aufs branch, aufs will return an error saying it is unsupported.
03:35
But I think aufs supports multiple branches in a single call
03:35
So it might be possible to combine everything in a single aufs call
03:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: aufs mounts on top of the aufs...
03:37
alkisg: we've been through this before ... :)
03:37
alkisg: the single aufs call would put the /boot on the same level as /
03:37
<alkisg>
I don't remember it, but it does say that it's unsupported above ^, doesn't it?
03:37Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955
03:37
<alkisg>
It doesn't have a syntax for defining where to mount it?
03:37
<vagrantc>
too late for wheezy annyways.
03:38
# sudo mount -t aufs -o br:/rw_branch:/ro_branch none /aufs
03:38
# sudo mount -t aufs -o br:/rw_branch/${d}:/ro_branch/${d} none /aufs/another/$d
03:38
from the manpage ... is the recommended way to get sub-mounts
03:38
<alkisg>
OK, this gave me the wrong impression: (05:34:17 πμ) alkisg: If you specify such filesystems as an aufs branch, aufs will return an error saying it is unsupported.
03:39
(from the aufs.sf.net site)
03:39* alkisg hopes overlayfs or some other system will become default in all distros at some point so that we won't have to maintain multiple options there :)
03:40
<vagrantc>
no doubt
03:40
but the time i was able to use aufs in debian, ubuntu had already switched to something else
03:42
<mangus580>
alkisg: that link helps some...
03:42
but my issue is, my dhcp server is a fedora 14
03:42
<alkisg>
mangus580: You just need to specify the correct next-server and boot filename there
03:42
<mangus580>
k - let me look some
03:46
alkisg: http://goo.gl/f3NyG - is this what I am looking for?
03:47
<alkisg>
Something like that, yeah
03:47
<mangus580>
ok
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04:51
<mangus580>
hmmm cant make it work :-(
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05:52
<mangus580>
alkisg: I got it working!
05:53
<alkisg>
Nice :)
05:53
<mangus580>
any suggestions on booting over wifi?
05:53
is there any bootloaders that will make it happen?
05:53
<alkisg>
...don't do it?
05:53
You could make it work with a bit of scripting, a local initramfs, drivers etc
05:53
<mangus580>
well - I would prefer not to.... but the 2 computers I plan on using are laptops - and they are for the kids to use in places that dont really have wires
05:54
<alkisg>
But it's not worth it because of bandwidth restrains
05:54
<mangus580>
I tried iPXE but not seeing how to set up the wireless even though they claim it works
05:54
<alkisg>
It'll be very slow; the best thing you could do there is have the chroot in some local media
05:54
They claim that they have alpha support for only a couple of drivers
05:54
I'm betting yours isn't one of them
05:54
<mangus580>
ahh
05:55
well, that being the case, then maybe this isnt really the way for me to go
05:55
maybe I should just install edubuntu on the machines
05:55
<alkisg>
Right
05:55
<mangus580>
what is the difference between thin & thick client?
05:55
<alkisg>
!fatclients
05:55
<ltsp>
fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
05:56
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp
05:56
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
05:56
<mangus580>
is thick, where the OS lives local, but the user storage lives on the 'host'?
05:56
<alkisg>
"Fat" in LTSP means that the applications run locally on the client. The client still has no disk though, it gets if from the server again.
05:56
<mangus580>
ahh
05:57
so thin, the apps run on the server
05:57
so crazy question - how is this different than microsoft terminal services?
05:58
since that runs ok over wifi (granted, running windows as the client OS)
05:58
same concept is it not?
05:58
<alkisg>
Microsoft terminal services don't support boot from lan
05:58
Other than that, they're all basically "remote desktop"
05:58
LTSP thin clients, x2go, nx, rdp...
05:58
<mangus580>
so over wifi, wouldnt it only be the boot process thats slow?
05:58
once up, wouldnt it be fine?
05:59
<alkisg>
No, the boot process needs about 50 MB
05:59
While e.g. a full screen youtube video needs 50 mbps
05:59
50 MB/sec, or 500 mbps
05:59
<mangus580>
gotcha
05:59
<alkisg>
So no, the booting part is fine, it's the remote desktop part that is slow
05:59
(in any implementation/os)
06:00
<mangus580>
I guess I never really tried to do youtube over RDP
06:00
:-)
06:00
<alkisg>
Right, the trick there is to do the decoding part locally
06:00
So then it'll only need 1 mbps
06:00
<mangus580>
right
06:00
<alkisg>
Instead of 500
06:00
That's a benefit for fat clients (even diskless)
06:00
<mangus580>
oh well - I've only lost a couple hours on it :-D
06:01
so fat might work 'reasonable' on wireless.
06:01
<alkisg>
Libreoffice when it loads reads 120 MB from the disk
06:01
<mangus580>
but alas...
06:01
again, its probably just better to install direct
06:01
<alkisg>
Devide that by 5 MB/sec, the wireless speed for 1 client...
06:02
So if you have the newer wireless, at 600 mbps, it'll be OK for 2 clients
06:02
<mangus580>
or setup vdiblaster and a vmware view server... (www.vdiblaster.com) and just run vm's for them
06:02
<alkisg>
If not, nope
06:02
VMs locally or remotely?
06:02
<mangus580>
remote
06:02
<alkisg>
All remote technologies have the same problem
06:03
Won't work well with low bandwidth
06:03
<mangus580>
yeah - guess I am not thinking straight
06:03
possibly too late for rational thinking tonight LOL
06:03* alkisg gets AFK for a while to do some work... bbl
06:04
<mangus580>
thanks for the help
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18:26
<lmk>
is the dnsmasq builtin tftp server sufficient or is tftp-hpa server required?
18:27
<vagrantc>
dnsmasq works great for tftp
18:28
there are some bugs for using dnsmasq's dhcp for large deployments where they have many (20+) simultaneous thin clients booting
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20:20
<vagrantc>
why am i too shy to apply the patch submitted in: http://bugs.debian.org/591608
20:22
i think i even tested it years ago...
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