IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 23 April 2007   (all times are UTC)

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02:10
<mighty-d>
hi, i wanted to know if there's support for webcams on thin clients
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03:40
<envite>
Hola a todos desde España
03:40
Hello all from Spain
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04:51
<Q-FUNK>
howdy!
04:52
has any advance been made as far as supporting audio to/from the thin clients on LTSP?
04:53
<envite>
Q-FUNK: which is exactly your problem?
04:55
<Q-FUNK>
we did a test using a PXE version of out thin client usng Edubuntu (Feisty, IIRC). sound from e.g. media players, comes out on the LTSP server instead of the thin client hardware.
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04:56
<envite>
ok
04:56
but all my sound comes from the client' speakers
04:56
have you readed the Sound page iun the wiki?
04:56
<Q-FUNK>
I'd asume similar problems with audio input and e.g. Ekiga
04:57
<envite>
about input i have no idea :(
04:58
<Q-FUNK>
the hardware involved is www.linuterm.com
04:58
<ogra>
Q-FUNK, ekiga and frieds work fine in feistys ltsp with the new alsa aemulation
04:58
<Q-FUNK>
based around an AMD Geode LX800
04:58
<ogra>
the intput side isnt configured automtically yet though
04:58
thats for gutsy
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04:59
<Q-FUNK>
ogra: oh, does it? :) excellent news, actually. so it emulates alsa and forwards it to the real alsa on the thin client?
04:59
<ogra>
yeah
04:59
<Q-FUNK>
groovy!
04:59
<ogra>
thanks to pulseaudio :)
04:59* Q-FUNK really needs to set himself a tst server with edubuntu/feisty.
05:00
<Q-FUNK>
ah
05:00
pa- was hacked to do that sort of audio forwarding?
05:00
<ogra>
no
05:01
it was designed to d such sort of audio forwarding ;)
05:02
<Q-FUNK>
oh ;)
05:02
<ogra>
due to lack of time i had no opportunity to work on the input side yet, but volume control and sound output through the emulated alsa device work just fine, input is a matter of configuration i guess
05:02
<Q-FUNK>
ok
05:03
<ogra>
there is a howto for an edgy skype LTSP setup with pulse ... on the novell wiki
05:04
<Q-FUNK>
ogra: I might be able to contribute some of our customer's help to finalize that. for them, getting VoIP working on the thin stations is a must-have. thankg goodness, they are a university network.
05:04
<ogra>
http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Edgy/HOWTO:_PulseAudio
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05:04
<ogra>
in the far future i plan to build a ubuntu derivative with ltsp and asterisk out of teh box ...
05:05
but that takes a lot of time my job doesnt leave me ...
05:05
<Q-FUNK>
asterisk with ekiga?
05:05
<ogra>
yeah
05:05
on a ubuntu LTSP setup ...
05:06
pop the CD in the server, boot ... start the installer ... go have some coffee ... return to your running callcenter ;)
05:12
<Q-FUNK>
:D
05:12
that would totally rock
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06:48
<nf1>
Hello, I got problem with my NFS server. When the thin client boots up it says: nfs over tcp not available from SERVER_IP. I'm using Debian sid nad ltsp5.0
06:48
and ltsp5.0*
06:49
<ogra>
which nfs server do you run on the server ?
06:50
(ltsp-server-standalone depends on nfs-kernel-server)
06:51
s/ltsp-server-standalone/ltsp-server/g
06:51
taht should provide nfs ove tcp out of the box
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06:54
<untitled>
hello
06:54
<ogra>
hi
06:55
<untitled>
ltsp should support local devices out of the box, right?
06:55
ltsp4.2*
06:55
<ogra>
not sure about "out of the box" here ...
06:55
ltsp5 des though
06:55
*does
06:56
there are pages on wiki.ltsp.org for ltspfs on 4.2
06:56
<untitled>
i know, but i can't compile ltspfs
06:56
i get errors
06:57
once i got all the devices work, i dont even know how i did it..
06:57
<ogra>
i have never compiled ltpfs for 4.2 so i might be the worng person to ask ... whats the error you get ?
06:57
<untitled>
some incompatible poiters..alot
06:58
it's probably not about compiling ltpfs, i just don't have a clue how to get it working..wiki shows how to compile..
06:59
<ogra>
what architecture is that ?
07:00
PC ? PPC ?
07:00
<untitled>
pc
07:00
just a normal intel with normal debian
07:00
xeon code2 :)
07:00
core*
07:01
<ogra>
which debian ?
07:01
<untitled>
etch4
07:01
<ogra>
ugh, why do you use ltsp 4.2 then ?
07:02
<untitled>
what should i use
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07:02
<nf1>
ogra, 1ox for the help, it was a firewall problem
07:02
<ogra>
untitled, ltsp5 ;)
07:02
untitled, but remove all 4.2 bits before
07:03
<untitled>
i just downloaded ltsp-utils.deb and it downloaded 4.2 itself...
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07:04
<ogra>
ah, crap
07:04
i know vagrant asked for it to be reoved from the archive
07:04
like we did in ubuntu
07:04
in ubuntu and debian you should really use ltsp5 nowadays
07:05
<untitled>
ok
07:05
<ogra>
(well you should use it everywhere, but all others lack the ltsp5 implementation yet ;) )
07:05
<untitled>
thanks for the tip
07:05
<ogra>
there is a debian wikipage for it
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07:06
<untitled>
it just seems like hardcore porno to setup local devices with 4.2...
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07:06
<ogra>
well, its darn easy with 5 :)
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07:08
<ogra>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices <- ubuntu, http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs <- debian
07:08
in edubuntu its all set up and enabled out of the box ...
07:09
<str4nd>
ogra: Where is fast and short installing guide to (k)ubuntu? (something like apt-get install <package> and then configure your system!)
07:11
<ogra>
str4nd, for ltsp ?
07:11
<artista_frustrad>
can anyone tell me what is the minimum necessary amount of ram to run ltsp5 with ltspfs and all
07:11
?
07:11
<ogra>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
07:12
<artista_frustrad>
in a debian etch
07:12
<ogra>
artista_frustrad, 48M is absolute minimum ... 64M should be fine
07:12
<str4nd>
ogra: thanks :)
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07:12
<cyberorg>
fxrsliberty: what problem did you face? (more on topic here)
07:13
<artista_frustrad>
ogra.. as I suspected.. not enougth ram .. my clients run on 32mb.. and it worked really well on ltsp4.2
07:13
<cyberorg>
hi ogra
07:13
<ogra>
artista_frustrad, thats a tradeoff we have to pay for using distro packages
07:13
<fxrsliberty>
Cyberorg: I was having issues with PXE boot
07:14
cyberorg: can you find a SUSE version BZR i can not
07:14
<cyberorg>
i dont get it, that part is set up by ltsp-update-kernels and it works fine
07:15
i just got debian tarball, ogra suggests using ubuntu one as it is more up to date
07:15
<fxrsliberty>
Cyberorg: i dump it for a couple of hours of working with kiwi netboot with a repurposed PC with HD
07:16
<ogra>
cyberorg, well to just get PXE running any tarball should work :)
07:16
<cyberorg>
ogra: yeah
07:16
<fxrsliberty>
cyberorg: can you find a suse version of bzr?
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07:17
<gvy>
hi
07:17
<cyberorg>
fxrsliberty: we cannot use or will have to modify kiwi netboot image to be able to use ltsp
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07:17
<cyberorg>
fxrsliberty: havent used bzr yet
07:18
<fxrsliberty>
I think the wyse boot option might be more compatible with the LTSP bits
07:19
put the Wyse boot option in a chroot jail chared via nfs with dhcp option for root path
07:19
<gvy>
ogra, ayt? localdev/muekow question on my hands (integrating into yet another distro)
07:19
<cyberorg>
fxrsliberty: first thing you need to try is get a tarball and try that, then we will figure our the best way of creating suse chroot
07:20
<ogra>
gvy, shoot
07:20
<cyberorg>
fxrsliberty: that is exactly what ltsp5 does
07:20
<gvy>
ogra, is there a current/coherent description of locladev mechanics anywhere?
07:20
<ogra>
cyberorg, well, you should integrate your code into teh plugin system from the beginning so fxrsliberty id right, you should get bzr ;)
07:20
<fxrsliberty>
what does it do?
07:21
<ogra>
s/id/is/
07:21
<fxrsliberty>
thanks ogra!
07:21
sorry cyberorg
07:21
<cyberorg>
ogra: what plugin system?
07:21
<ogra>
cyberorg, the one we use in ltsp-build-client
07:22
<cyberorg>
the one to build chroot system?
07:22
<ogra>
it was designed for multi distro support :)
07:22
yes
07:22
ltsp-build-client is the tol you run to create the chroot
07:22
*tool
07:22
<cyberorg>
ok, so we drop kiwi, i thought we can use kiwi to do that bit
07:22
<ogra>
sur eyou can use kiwi
07:22
if it creates a chroot ...
07:23
<gvy>
there are trivial things like a thinko(?) in udev.d/88-ltsp.rules resulting in doubling the entries in /var/run/.delayed-mount
07:23
<cyberorg>
kiwi creates chroot, live distro, netboot, vmx, xen anything you can think of
07:23
<gvy>
and it's a bit hard to understand what's on purpose and what's yet another lapse. :)
07:23
<ogra>
you need any kind of bootstrapping mechanism to build your chroot ... if kiwi provides that, perfect
07:24
for gentoo you have the stage1 tarball ... for redhat you have anaconda ... debian based systems have debootstrap
07:24
<gvy>
ogra, I've actually spent some time patching 4.2 (and publishing what was more-or-less reasonable on wiki.ltsp.org) but have since passed working on LTSP5 integration into ALT Linux to a separate fulltimer
07:24
<cyberorg>
i'll have a look at ltsp-build-client and see how we can go forward from there
07:24
<gvy>
now we're pretty much there but localdev :)
07:24
<ogra>
gvy, actually we only use the ltspfsd and ltspfs binaries from the old implemetation
07:24
<gvy>
ogra, ah; those worked
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07:25
<ogra>
all the surrounding bits (tthe actual stuff that makes it work) were rewritten for ltsp5
07:25
<gvy>
ogra, I've packaged those by hand (sent patches/specs to sbalneav@ but never heard back)
07:25
<ogra>
cyberorg, also you dont need a netboot image ... syslinux should be able to just create that on the fly for you in any distro
07:26
all you need is a chroot
07:27
gvy, the ltsp5 implementation doesnt use lbus anymore but an ssh tunnel provided by ldm ... all mounting happens natively through udev rules on the client ...
07:27
<cyberorg>
ogra: yes, kiwi uses it for another purpose
07:27
<ogra>
... on the server side we have one script and a suid root binary that moves the mount to /media/$USER/<drivename>
07:29
<gvy>
ogra, tnx
07:29
anyone with e.g. kdm goes north-west? :)
07:29
<ogra>
anyone not using ldm, yes
07:29
<fxrsliberty>
cyberorg: someone built an rpm for BZR a while ago but I can't find it
07:30
<ogra>
(which you shouldnt do anyway XDMCP is da evil)
07:30
<gvy>
:]
07:30
<cyberorg>
fxrsliberty: check on BS, it could be there
07:31
<ogra>
gvy, sbalneav is working on an X tunneled communication layer for gutsy (7.10) .... then XDMCP should work as well again ...
07:31
and i'm working on proper hal integration for october
07:31
<gvy>
ogra, thanks for explanation; is there a distro integration I should paste this q/a into?
07:31
*page on wiki
07:32
<ogra>
cyberorg, there is nothing on the bzr homepage ?
07:32
<gvy>
ah, http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp
07:32
<ogra>
(http://bazaar-vcs.org/)
07:32
<fxrsliberty>
cyberorg: got it
07:33
<artista_frustrad>
ogra, in your opinion. a Pentium 233 with 64 mb ram can handle ltsp5 ?? with all those ssh calculations for every packet ??
07:33
<ogra>
gvy, well, thats rather general integration notes
07:33
artista_frustrad, yes
07:33
<gvy>
ogra, re ldm: a colleague tells that ldm misses userlist for us
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07:33
<ogra>
artista_frustrad, it will boot slow though, but should be fine for working ...
07:33* artista_frustrad got scared after all those presentations at fisl
07:33
<ogra>
artista_frustrad, make sour you have NBD_SWAP=True set in lts.conf
07:34
<fxrsliberty>
ogra: could you tell me the url to get the ltsp bits again?
07:34
<ogra>
gvy, not implemented yet
07:34
gvy, i just started a C/Gtk rewrite that should have some extra features in october
07:34
<cyberorg>
fxrsliberty: on BS ?
07:35
<fxrsliberty>
cyberorg: i found the bzr rpm in the bs, yes
07:35
<ogra>
https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/feisty-ltsp
07:35
has the most recent code
07:35
<fxrsliberty>
ogra: ty
07:37
ogra: does this come down as source?
07:38
<ogra>
bzr get http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/feisty-ltsp
07:38
will create a feisty-ltsp dir in the current dir
07:39
<gvy>
ogra, well... from mgmt pov it's not exactly sane to roll out a new mechanism for mounting as default (especially breaking the robust existing one) to narrow down dm support to half-written one
07:40
<ogra>
half written one ?
07:40
<gvy>
just as a side note from someone who've seen/done that way too often :]
07:40
ldm
07:40
<ogra>
sorry, but i dont agree ldm is written for a purpose and fulfills this since three releases
07:40
<gvy>
userlist seems quite critical at TS deployments I've seen (and in LDAP-based standalone WS deployments as well)
07:41
ogra, well I'm exactly about different purposes
07:41
<ogra>
1.5 years is quite some time to file a whishlist bug about missing fetures
07:41
<gvy>
nevermind, it's rather a surprise for me, not moaning about how bad all is :-)
07:41
I'll try to
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07:41
<ogra>
you are free to use XDMCP isf you want to and put time into implementing te old ltspfs if you want to
07:41
<gvy>
actually just got another project seemingly off my hands to go and sub ltsp-devel@
07:42
<ogra>
https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/ldm-greeter
07:42
<gvy>
ogra, well seems like a colleague will go that way ;-)
07:42
<ogra>
feel free to contribute features you miss
07:42
<gvy>
ogra, thanks, hopefully
07:43
it's just nobody happens to like python here. :)
07:43
<ogra>
thats the new code for the october release
07:43
its C
07:43
<gvy>
ah,sorry
07:43
you've mentioned
07:43
<ogra>
for ltspfs you will need to do python
07:43
all the scripts are py scripts ...
07:43
<gvy>
might provoce another friendof mine to look into that, too
07:43
<ogra>
(beyond the udev stuff which is shell)
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07:44
<gvy>
er... s/c/k/ s/dof/d of/
07:44
<ogra>
just point me to the bzr branches with the changes and i'll gratefully merge ;)
07:44
(a s long as they are not insane indeed ;))
07:44
<Guaraldo>
hi, buddies!
07:45* gvy murmurs something about civilized world using git but hides quickly. :)
07:46
<ogra>
gvy, you should really think about how you handle devs ... telling someone the project he works on since 2 years isnt mature but not filing whishlist bugs and then moaning about the versioning system a project choose isnt a good start
07:47
<gvy>
ogra, weeeell, hence the mention above on "moaning" and "purpose" ;-)
07:47
I know that kind of start very well, be patient :-)
07:48
actually working with Linux since 1998 and maintaining packages in ALT Linux since 2001
07:48
so basically have seen that enough times (and did myself a couple of them(
07:49
<artista_frustrad>
ogra, is there a tutorial on how to customise the ldm screen ?
07:49
<str4nd>
' Option "XkbLayout" "fi,ru" ' working if I put it to (kb section of) /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf?
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07:49
<ogra>
me too, thats why i work for ubuntu there you wont see it ...
07:49
str4nd, nope, add it to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
07:49
<str4nd>
ogra: :o
07:50
<ogra>
/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts-parameters.txt.gz has all supported parameters
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07:50
<gvy>
ogra, thanks to your replies, my plan for now looks like: try ldm/$new_scheme, if not, fallback to lbus/$old_scheme; in the meantime, file an FR on ldm re look/feel/lists_my_honey ;-)
07:50
<str4nd>
yeah, thanks! \o/ \o_
07:50
(or thanks again ;))
07:50
<ogra>
str4nd, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf is rewrtten during boot ;)
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07:50
<str4nd>
ogra: :P
07:50
<gvy>
ogra, well it's not about ubuntu or another distro, it's about people
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07:51
<ogra>
gvy, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+filebug :)
07:51
gvy, as i said sbalneav is working on an Xatoms based transport layer ...
07:51
<gvy>
i'm actually quite hostile towards ubuntu's artifical sense of humanity since after lurking/participating for quite some time in sounder@ it was awfully clear to me that way...
07:52
<ogra>
so the underlying transport wont matter anymore
07:52
<gvy>
but that's rather my personal trouble, of course
07:52
<ogra>
shuld be included in the october release
07:52
<artista_frustrad>
can anyone tell me if ltsp manager and tcm are going to show up in debian any time soon ??
07:52
<ogra>
artista_frustrad, ltsp-manager is non existent yet
07:52
<gvy>
ogra, well i hope our CTO will be able to find some time and maybe help -- he's quite keen in X too
07:52
<ogra>
artista_frustrad, there is only a gui but no backend for it
07:52
<gvy>
ogra, once again thanks
07:52* gvy continues to ML archives
07:53
<ogra>
gvy, cool :)
07:53
artista_frustrad, i suspect the ubuntu packages of TCM should work in debian, there is nothing non-standard in them
07:54
<artista_frustrad>
ogra, is there a way I can help the development of those apps ??
07:54
who do I have to talk to ?
07:55
<ogra>
artista_frustrad, TCM was taken over by pete savage (cbx33 in #edubuntu or #ubuntu-devel)
07:55
ltsp-manager is on my list for october
07:56
<fxrsliberty>
ogra: is there a place in these scripts to shut off the building of the LDM so we can t-shoot the basic bits?
07:56
<ogra>
i wanted to have it in feisty, but then decided to have a set of proper python modules for it first ... so that went into feisty ... now we have python-ltsp to attach *any* kind of gui to
07:56
fxrsliberty, ltsp-buiöd-client doesnt build ldm ...
07:57
look at the 000-basic-configuration plugins
07:57
they have the package lists ... drop ldm from there and it wont get used/installed in the chroot
07:59* ogra goes back to implement nfs4 in ltsps initramfs
07:59
<fxrsliberty>
it almost sounds like if I can get pxeboot going an build this client i'm all done?
07:59
<ogra>
well, you will need some additional stuff :)
07:59
like generating the X config
08:00
and setting up various things ...
08:00
<fxrsliberty>
that's the replacement for lts.conf ?
08:00
<ogra>
well, lts.conf is still there ... but the xserver in ubuntu has a config tool that gets run if the variables are not set in lts.conf ...
08:01
debian has a similar but different mechanism ...
08:01
the ltsp-client-setup initscript is responsible for that
08:03
<cyberorg>
ogra: we got sax2 -a that autogenerates xorg.conf, so does each client hav their own xorg.conf? and where do they go?
08:03
<ogra>
where the X server expects them :)
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08:04* ogra takes a long breath for a longer explanation
08:04
<cyberorg>
/etc/xorg.conf, so what happens when another user logs in with different x setup?
08:04
<ogra>
you chroot gets exported readonly to the world ...
08:04
if initramfs mounts it it wil still be readonly
08:05
<cyberorg>
so changed /etc/xorg.conf resides in ram?
08:05
<ogra>
if you want to write to files you have to create a tmpfs mount for them
08:05
thats what we do in ltsp5
08:05
look at the bind_mounts function in the ltsp-cient-setup initscript
08:05
<cyberorg>
ok
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08:06
<ogra>
it should work like that on every modern linux, you should be able to just copy that for your initscripts
08:06
<mhterres>
morning
08:06
<fxrsliberty>
ogra: is this the right 000-basic? /downloads/feisty-ltsp/server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu
08:08
<ogra>
thats what Ubuntu uses currently, yes, te one for debian is in the Debian subdir
08:09
<fxrsliberty>
ogra: you are a very nice man I wish I could shake your hand!
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08:09
<ogra>
fxrsliberty, i'm sure you will be able to at some point in our lives :)
08:10
<fxrsliberty>
;)
08:10
<ogra>
sbalneav and jammcq work hard on convincing mark to send me to the next FISL :)
08:10
and i'll be in portland in july ...
08:11
at OSCON and ubuntulive
08:11
or if you are around spain next month you can find me in seville :)
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08:13
<fxrsliberty>
well i work for a poor little school district here in NH just about an our south of David Trask so I won't be in Spain any time soon ;)
08:13
<ogra>
but probably in portland :)
08:13
<fxrsliberty>
could be!
08:13
Portland Maine?
08:14
<ogra>
i also heard rumours about a ubuntu conference in boston in autumn
08:14
oregon i think, not sure
08:14
http://www.ubuntulive.com/ yup, says oregon
08:14
<fxrsliberty>
i believe jammcq said so to
08:14
<Guaraldo>
ogra: And what about FISL 2008 ???
08:14
<gvy>
ogra, btw colleague was surprised by overall cleanness of plugin system for ltsp5 -- it required almost no modifications (~8.5k patch, half of which is specific), just plugins on an rpm-based platform
08:15
<Guaraldo>
ogra: Would you came???
08:15
<ogra>
we were thinking abut attaching a ltsp hackfest to that conf
08:15
<gvy>
although there are several snippets to be filed; hope to get to it
08:15
<ogra>
Guaraldo, i'd love to ... lets see if i can get my boss to pay for it ... as i said, jammcq and sbalneav already work on convincing him ;)
08:16
<gvy>
ogra, btw what country are you from? there's a free software conference/expo in Kiev, Ukraine at the end of october
08:16
<Guaraldo>
ogra: It would be wanderfull...
08:16
<ogra>
gvy, cool, yeah, the plugin system is one of the better things in 5 :)
08:16
<gvy>
http://conference.osdn.org.ua/en/about/
08:16
<ogra>
gvy, i'm in germany :)
08:17
<gvy>
you're welcome too :-)
08:17
there's nice ukrainian borshch over here. :)
08:17
<ogra>
but there are some schools in georgia and ukraine that use either edubuntu or ubuntu woth ltsp ...
08:17
so it might be possible to convince our marketing team to sned me to hold a talk ;)
08:17
*send
08:18
<gvy>
yep (two friends of mine worked with ltsp3 -- you might have heard of ltsp.ru; we've mirrored it for folks' convenience)
08:18
<ogra>
nice :)
08:18
i love the east ... i was in wasaw and lodz recently ... but not more eastern ...
08:19
<-- drives a ural ;)
08:19
*an
08:19
<gvy>
ogra, ugh, then you might be interested in summer events in Russia/Belarus
08:19
<ogra>
irbit is near kiev, right ?
08:20
<gvy>
.by one is specifically "european": http://lvee.org.by/index.php/TitlePageEn
08:20
irbit? hm, there's Irpin (or Irpen) town near
08:20
<ogra>
hmm
08:21
<gvy>
and lvee2005 was *sweet* with their fine nature and fine talks :)
08:21
but sorry, i'm distracting myself and spamming the channel :(
08:22
<ogra>
me too :)
08:27Blinny has joined #ltsp
08:28nf1 has quit IRC
08:30irule has joined #ltsp
08:31
<gvy>
ogra, filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/109270
08:32
<ogra>
heh, proprietary bug silo ... oh man :)
08:33
btw, the new implementation is way more robust :)
08:34
its just not supporting sniaffable communication mechanisms
08:35
<gvy>
ogra, i'm *much* used to calling things their names ;)
08:35
actually, bug dup autofinder is really nice idea, yep
08:35
<ogra>
well, ask sbalneav which implementation he likes more :)
08:35nf1 has joined #ltsp
08:35
<ogra>
well, LP will be opensourced at some point ...
08:36
<gvy>
as mentioned -- i suspect the mail isn't getting either this way or that... i've never heard back from sbalneav on two mails
08:36
<ogra>
i'll talk to him
08:36
<gvy>
should write from gmail probably
08:36
<ogra>
(and sub him to the bug :)
08:36
<gvy>
thanks; From: was mike@osdn.org.ua, Date: was last autumn
08:37
<ogra>
subscribed him ...
08:37
he should also show up soon ... its time :)
08:38
<gvy>
ogra, just finished sub to ltsp-developer@ -- hope that would help communicating :)
08:38
<ogra>
yeah
08:38
eve though i'm not very active on that one ... IRC is simply faster :)
08:39
<gvy>
yup; but less archived
08:39
although lists.sf.net were 500s on me on the first attempt to browse relevant recent (erm) threads
08:39
gave in on the second. :)
08:41
<cyberorg>
ogra: what are the disadvantages of not using ldm and using xdmcp apart from security?
08:41
<ogra>
security should be your biggest concern ...
08:42
at least with XDMCP ...
08:42Axel711 has joined #LTSP
08:42
<cyberorg>
ok, other than that? :)
08:42
<ogra>
anyone attached to the network segment you are on can do keylogging or take screenshots from your X traffic
08:42
*without *any* tools*
08:43
<Axel711>
hello.
08:43
<ogra>
so you could as well go without passwords
08:43
and leave the nfs mount readwrite
08:43
<Axel711>
i managed to get a lstp 4.2 up and running
08:43
a client is booting via pxe
08:43
i just can not login from the client.
08:44
i chrooted to the lstp root and added a user
08:44
<cyberorg>
i thought there were feature that would be lacking if xdmcp is used instead of ldm
08:44
<ogra>
Axel711, thas wrong
08:44
*thats
08:44
<Axel711>
i still can not login
08:44
yes?
08:44
<ogra>
login always happens on the server, you dont need any accounts in the chroot
08:44
<Axel711>
ok
08:45
<ogra>
(and shouldnt have any unless for debugging)
08:45
<Axel711>
i did not see any ssh thong in the auth log
08:45
<ogra>
4.2 doesnt use shh
08:45
<Axel711>
ok
08:45
how do i see the login try?
08:45
<ogra>
it uses XDMCP of the running display manager on the server
08:46
so check the logs of gdm/kdm, and the users ~/.xsession-errors
08:46
<Axel711>
use does not have that file
08:46
user
08:46
i check the gdm logs
08:47
thanks so fare
08:47
<ogra>
are you sure its 4.2 ?
08:47
<Axel711>
not really :) :)
08:47
i check
08:47
<ogra>
how did you install it ?
08:47
<Axel711>
ubunti apt-get
08:47
<ogra>
like https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall ?
08:48pscheie has joined #ltsp
08:48
<ogra>
check "If you change the IP data..." at the bottom ;)
08:48
<Axel711>
ok
08:48
<pscheie>
morning all
08:49nicoAMG has joined #ltsp
08:50
<Axel711>
ltsp-server-standalone 5.0.7
08:50
<ogra>
yeah, thats obviously ubuntu feisty ltsp5 :)
08:50
<Axel711>
yes
08:50
<ogra>
sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys should help you
08:50
<Axel711>
ist version 5, never saw any docu
08:51
<ogra>
you shouldnt need more than that page ... unless you start to tweak stuff through the lts.conf file ... but then the old docs are just good
08:52
<Axel711>
ok. i eat that page now
08:52
thanks
08:53
<ogra>
/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/ has a list of parameters and an example lts.conf
08:53
<cyberorg>
ogra: are ltsp 4.2 lts.conf configuration all compatible with ltsp 5?
08:53
<ogra>
not all of them, no
08:53
there are plenty of spaces where it wouldnt make sense
08:53
<cyberorg>
ok
08:54
<ogra>
there many things that are detected automatically yu shouldnt override because the automation does the right thing
08:55
i.e. ps2 mice are always used and detected ... no need to offer a parameter to specify them additionally
08:56
ltsp5 works very well without any lts.conf ... while ltsp 4.2 relied on the settings in it ...
08:56
<cyberorg>
yeah
08:56
even xorg works well without xorg.conf :)
08:56
<ogra>
right
08:57
we stole that from the liveCD ;)
08:57sbalneav has joined #ltsp
08:57
<ogra>
so as long as the ubuntu liveCD works we can be sure X will work in ltsp as well :)
08:57
!s
08:57
<ltspbot>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:57
<sbalneav>
Morning ogra!
08:57
<ogra>
sbalneav, nfs4 doesnt like me :/
08:58
<sbalneav>
Ah, problems?
08:58
<ogra>
http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17212/
08:58
look at that one
08:58
half of my tmpfs mounts work, others dont
08:58
and i cant find a scheme
08:59
<sbalneav>
Hmmmm
08:59
OK, here's a quiestion for you.
08:59
Howabout you make a quick fiddle in the initramfs, and change the mount to an NFS3 mount.
08:59
<ogra>
apart from that little thing, nfs4 nfsroot is implemented in initramfs now ...
08:59
<sbalneav>
See if that changes things.
08:59
<ogra>
well, thats what we had before
09:00
indeed that works
09:00
<sbalneav>
OK
09:00
<ogra>
i want v4 for gutsy
09:00
<sbalneav>
Then the problem's in the VFS layer in the kernel.
09:00
<ogra>
so we can offer encryption in gutsy+1
09:00
<gvy>
sbalneav, ! :)
09:01
<sbalneav>
Both the V4 and TMPFS will be interacting via VFS, so probably something in the kernel.
09:01
<nf1>
Does anyone have experience with Softphones under LTSP clients?
09:01
<sbalneav>
ogra: hey, quick question, was standard Mozilla dropped altogether from Feisty?
09:01
<ogra>
yeah
09:02
sbalneav, should be in universe ...
09:02
<sbalneav>
Hm
09:02
<ogra>
it was punted to universe in dapper iirc
09:02
<sbalneav>
I'll have to check.
09:02
<gvy>
sbalneav, just told ogra about ltspfs-related patches/rpm specs that i've mailed to you last autumn (from mike@osdn.org.ua)
09:03
sbalneav, hopefully at least you've got those mails
09:03
(i've got no replies)
09:03
<sbalneav>
Yeah, I never had a chance to do anything with them
09:03
<gvy>
ah
09:03
<sbalneav>
We've spent time trying to get Fedora to include LTSP5 directly.
09:04
I don't do ANY work anymore on LTSP 4
09:04
It's passe :)
09:04
<ogra>
does anybody ?
09:04
:)
09:04
<gvy>
we're spending time to include 5 in ALT Linux. :)
09:04
<ogra>
cool
09:04
make sure to add its plugins to the upstream code
09:04
<gvy>
of course!
09:04
<ogra>
:)
09:05
<gvy>
selfish forks suck bitterly, as a rule
09:05
<ogra>
yeah, but thats the biggest danger we have atm
09:05
<gvy>
(if it wasn't bsdl code commercialized and polished up)
09:05
<ogra>
people who go the easy way and just build a monolithic script :)
09:05
<gvy>
ogra, hm, seems to me like ltsp5 has the lowest fork potential, no?
09:06
<ogra>
well
09:06
<gvy>
3 was plain hideous re build env, 4 was... well... not exactly there
09:06
5 seems much better for a maintainer
09:06
<ogra>
yeah
09:06nf1 has quit IRC
09:07
<ogra>
but i'm looking forward to the day we can wipe the tarballs off the webserver :)
09:07
that means every distro has at least something basic :)
09:07
<gvy>
there's a thing called "upstream"... still basically i concur, of course
09:10nf1 has joined #ltsp
09:13
<Axel711>
orga: somehow, i still can not login. wich daemon does the auth? what ist so lowest point to debug login=?
09:14
<ogra>
openssh-server does the auth
09:14
make sure its runing
09:14
<Axel711>
so there should show up somethink in the auth log?
09:14
<ogra>
ltsp5 doesnt need X on the server anymore
09:14
<Axel711>
port 22
09:14
?
09:14
<ogra>
right
09:14
auth.log should show the attempts
09:15jammcq has joined #ltsp
09:15
<jammcq>
g'morning kids
09:15
<Axel711>
with the user name i use at the thin clien? then it does nor show up.
09:15
<gvy>
Father Jamm, g'day!
09:16
<jammcq>
hey
09:16
<cyberorg>
hi jammcq
09:16
<Axel711>
all right, for security i use an unusual ssh port :)
09:16
damit
09:16nf1 has quit IRC
09:17
<ogra>
ah
09:17
fix that :)
09:17
thats feisty ?
09:17
<Axel711>
doing a quick port shift now
09:17
<ogra>
it supports a parameter for unusual ssh ports ;)
09:18
<Axel711>
ah, pls tell me where
09:18
<gvy>
Axel711, might want to look on knockd or a few other implementations of portknocking; or look into openssh-4.6's tunable auth mechanisms for different logins/nets
09:18
<cliebow_>
jammcq!
09:19
<jammcq>
hey chucky cheese
09:19
<Guaraldo>
hi, jammcq... How are you?
09:19
<ogra>
Axel711, in your lts.conf set SSH_OVERRIDE_PORT=2894 to get it to use port 2894 :)
09:19
(in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf )
09:20* ogra takes a break
09:20
<jammcq>
Guaraldo: hey Luiz
09:21plamengr has joined #ltsp
09:24
<plamengr>
Hello all :) Can you recommend me a softphone to use with LTSP5.0 and Debian sid?
09:24
<gvy>
running as local app, of course?
09:25
<plamengr>
can local apps already be set up?
09:25
in LTSP5.0
09:26
we tried softphones as normal apps from the server like MozPhone which worked, but the quality was low
09:27
we tried also Twinkle, but we didn't succeed with a normal conversation
09:27
<cliebow_>
fxrsliberty, perhaps you could visit during ltsp-by-the=sea in Maine?
09:28
<fxrsliberty>
when is that?
09:29
<plamengr>
with MozPhone at least we understood what the other was saying :)
09:29
it'll be great if someone had experience with softphones
09:30
<gvy>
plamengr, from what i've heard it's mostly local/remote app issue with TS
09:30
only then it comes to softphone code itself...
09:30
<fxrsliberty>
cliebow_: when is that?
09:31
<gvy>
that is, folks seem to have noticed that soundserver over lan hurts worse than less competent echo suppression
09:31
<cliebow_>
end of ooctober if it happens
09:33
<ogra>
plamengr, http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Edgy/HOWTO:_PulseAudio ... debian etch's ltsp5 is as old as edgys, so that might work
09:34
gvy, pulse in feisty is just awesome ... all thats missinfg now is a fine lossless compression fo the tcp transfer :)
09:34
<gvy>
ogra, mmm... we have quite enthusiastic PA maintainer
09:35* ogra hasnt found an app yet that doesnt work with the alsa emulation layer of pulse
09:35
<gvy>
but have yet to see working pulse on terminal
09:35
actually think that'll be default in our setup (hopefully)
09:35
<ogra>
its default in 5.0.7 in feisty
09:36
<gvy>
stop, but those might be docs for Novell Edgy! :)
09:36
<ogra>
debian will switch as soon as we do the code merge (this week or so) and they pull it into sid
09:36
novell edgy ?
09:36
what would that be *g*
09:36
<gvy>
novell/wiki/edgy
09:36
<ogra>
well, to my knowledge novell still uses rpm ;)
09:36
its for ubuntu edgy
09:37
<gvy>
ogra, a couple more words on merge: hope it will be announced on ltsp-dev?
09:37
<ogra>
the guy is just a novell developer
09:37
<gvy>
ML
09:37
<ogra>
we usually just merge the code ...
09:37
if you need an announcement we can do one :)
09:37
<cliebow_>
gvy:dont know of a town named stryj?
09:37
<gvy>
branches of different developers?
09:37
cliebow, yep
09:37
westerm ukraine
09:37
<ogra>
debian and ubuntu branches
09:37
<gvy>
*western
09:37
<cliebow_>
my dad was born there
09:37
<gvy>
cliebow, wow
09:37
<ogra>
there are not more ...
09:38
<cliebow_>
1911..he's long gone..
09:38
<gvy>
ogra, ah, tnx
09:38
<ogra>
all ubuntu development ends up in my branch, all debian devlopment ends up in vagrants branch
09:38
i use to merge the code after ubuntu had an release
09:38
<gvy>
seems like Yeltsin's gone today
09:38
<ogra>
this time we even had both a release :)
09:38
he is ?
09:39
<gvy>
cliebow, well, you're welcome to our autumn conference just as well: http://conference.osdn.org.ua/en/about/
09:39
<cliebow_>
ill look it over....thanks!
09:39sepski has joined #ltsp
09:39
<ogra>
i thought vodka has conservating features :)
09:40
<gvy>
ogra, btw grats; i've mirrored etchy/feist isos (i know, i know, but pools are not my job) on ftp.linux.kiev.ua -- it's fast inside .ua :)
09:40
<cliebow_>
i spnsor ltsp by the sea..in late october..
09:40
<ogra>
gvy, as long as there are no other distros with code branches i didnt find it overly important to announce branch merges
09:40
<gvy>
right after upgrading the server with another 4 spindles and 8-sata mobo
09:40tsurko has joined #ltsp
09:40
<ogra>
apart from that bzr is build to allow constant merging
09:41
<gvy>
ogra, thx
09:41
<ogra>
gvy, oh, thanks, we can need every small bit of bandwith
09:41
<gvy>
cliebow, ouch, i'm a bit too dumb on dates, sorry
09:41
ogra, well it's on the mirrors wiki
09:41
<ogra>
seems we very much doubled the userbase again ... the servers couldnt cope with the release
09:41muh2000_ has joined #ltsp
09:41
<plamengr>
do you have "well working" :) experience with softphone on terminals, I and nf1 have tested linphone, Twinke, and all sound metallic
09:42
<ogra>
we had to put up a static frontpage on ubuntu.com :)
09:42
<tsurko>
twinkle sounds terrible
09:42
linphone sounds metallic
09:42
<pscheie>
cliebow_: are you doing ltsp-by-the-sea this Oct. also?
09:43
<ogra>
plamengr, did you try ekiga ?
09:43
<plamengr>
with MozPhone we understood each other, but the quality was very low
09:44
<cliebow_>
pscheie, generally i have sponsored it when in Maine...
09:44
<plamengr>
we'll try if Ekiga can be set up with our Asterisk server, I think that you need to connect to the Ekiga server
09:45nf1 has joined #ltsp
09:46
<tsurko>
ekiga freezes
09:46
<nf1>
Hi, I got IRC on the client now :)
09:46
<ogra>
plamengr, canonical uses it for its company stuff on an asterisk server
09:46
<nf1>
yeeah, like tsurko says, the Ekiga freezes
09:46
<ogra>
i'm 100% positive ekiga and asterisk work fine tgether
09:46nicoAMG has quit IRC
09:47
<ogra>
(at least with the setup we have in the ubuntu datacenter)
09:50
while nfs4 and initramfs dont work fine together ...
09:50* ogra kicks nfs4 in the guts ... with run-up ...
09:50gvy is now known as nfs4
09:50* nfs4 kicks back!
09:50nfs4 is now known as gvy
09:50
<sbalneav>
I've also used Ekiga, and it's worked fine for me as well.
09:51
In fact, ogra and I have talked VIA ekiga
09:51
<ogra>
yeah
09:51
<sbalneav>
Something we should do more often
09:51
<tsurko>
sbalneav, on thin clinet?
09:51
<ogra>
heh
09:51
<sbalneav>
tsurko: Not on a thin client, no.
09:51
<ogra>
my laptop died last time ... bad omen ... i didnt use ekiga anymore after that :)
09:52
<tsurko>
okay, ot definitely works woth asterisk
09:52
but we can't get it working on thon clinet
09:52
<nf1>
sbalneav, we try to use softphones on the thinclients for GSM Gateway
09:52
<ogra>
(no thet i'D be superstitious ... whistle)
09:52
<sbalneav>
nf1: there was an article on that in Linux Journal last year.
09:52
using kphone.
09:53
<tsurko>
it's about ltsp4 and LBE
09:53
<nf1>
sbalneav, yes, but with LBE and 4.2 that's too complicated. We want to use LTSP5
09:53
<ogra>
with sshfs mounts in ldm in gutsy, localapps should become easy
09:53
i want at least that bit by october ...
09:54
the desktop integration can well go into the april release, but we should have the basics in by october
09:55
<nf1>
so in early may we can use localapps? or in october?
09:55
<ogra>
you can *use* them by october with manual setup ...
09:55
you can use them with simply checking a checkbox in your favorite destop menu editor by april
09:56
<nf1>
april 2008 right?
09:56
<ogra>
(manual setup will mean to install the app in the chroot and write a small script that starts it)
09:56
yes
09:56
<nf1>
manual setup sounds great, october not so :)
09:57
<ogra>
well, you cn do it yourself now already
09:57
<sbalneav>
nf1: You could do local apps now, depending on how much manual fiddling you're willing to do :)
09:57muh2000 has quit IRC
09:57
<ogra>
you need to change some code though
09:58
install nfs-common in the chroot and change the default fstab in the ltsp-client-setup initscript to mount /home from the server ...
09:58
install openssh-server in the chroot and make sure every user has a valid key in /home and an authorized_keys file
09:59cyberorg has quit IRC
09:59
<nf1>
ogra, I have another statement and question. We are group of people in Bulgaria who are using LTSP and implementing it in schools mostly. LTSP is great, we're using it since version 4.1. Where can we find information of how can we help the project (none uf us is a programmer though)
09:59
<ogra>
set up ldap or nis to have the passwords available on te client
09:59
now write a script that executes your local app and attacheds it to DISPLAY=:6 on the client
10:00
if you now do: ssh $USER@client <localapp>
10:00
you will have it running :)
10:00
<gvy>
nf1, usually it helps to read up on docs and prune them (at least mark what's appropriate for what versions, put timestamps in, etc)
10:01
<ogra>
nf1, well, ltsp5 could need a lot more documentation ...
10:01
<gvy>
since docs are crucial for non-programmers and after one has found a way through them, one usually has some image of what's worth it and what's crap by now
10:01
<ogra>
no development knwoledge required to help ;)
10:01
<gvy>
at least for some /short/ time...
10:01gonzaloaf_laptop has quit IRC
10:02
<nf1>
What kind of documentation? and in what format?
10:03
<ogra>
wiki should be fine
10:03
all kind of docs, for special cases like the above one :)
10:03
or just for people wanting to know how it works
10:04
<nf1>
ok, well document what we manage to do with LTSP :). How can we upload it? reg on wiki.ltsp.org?
10:04
<ogra>
there are docs, pretty much everything is already described on wiki.ltsp.org ... but they all could need more flesh and probably better wording
10:05
and since ltsp5 development really goes fast there are often new features that ed up undocumented :)
10:05* ogra makes a note to document SSH_OVERRIDE_PORT somewhere :)
10:05
<nf1>
how can I keep track ot these new features?
10:05
<gvy>
nf1, wiki is fine indeed; yes, reg
10:06
nf1, e.g. here?
10:06
(annotating existing docs as "v4/v4.2/v5 actual" is very helpful too)
10:06
<ogra>
for ubuntu we put them as specifications into launchpad.net ... apart from that IRC is your best bet
10:06
<nf1>
:) here's good but what if I'm unable to be in IRC for like a week
10:06
<Axel711>
orga: thx a lot for the ssh tip. Now x is left, but need zo go.
10:06
<ogra>
in launchpad you can usually track implementation status then ...
10:06
<nf1>
what's the page in launchpad?
10:07
<ogra>
Axel711, i'm here every day :)
10:07
<Axel711>
:) cu.
10:07
<ogra>
nf1, https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs that would be my personal speclist
10:07Axel711 has quit IRC
10:07
<ogra>
look for thin client or ltsp in the list
10:08
sbalneav has such a page as well there
10:08
<sbalneav>
Yes I do
10:08
<nf1>
ogra, thank you very much. We'll try to contribute with what we can.
10:08
<ogra>
hmm, we should have a feature to make an intersection of two speclists ...
10:09
that would get you all ltsp specs from your and my list :)
10:10
<cliebow_>
ogra:you have a central repository for ltsp5 docs?
10:10
<ogra>
only the code tree :/
10:11
i usually add new variables to lts-parameters.tgz ... and write amnpages where required, but thats about it ...
10:11
apart from that i have https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
10:12
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices
10:12
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins
10:12* cliebow_ cliebow pastes this..
10:13
<ogra>
oh207, and https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
10:13
meh
10:14
the edubuntu handbook should go back on the web as well, not sure someone is working on that
10:14
its currently only available in yelp format in edubuntu
10:15
but it has a lot of valuable info about ltsp5
10:15
<cliebow_>
great: ill do some 'more' reading..
10:15
<ogra>
most is scotties work :)
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10:17
<cliebow_>
ogra:know of anyone passing dhcp to ibooks using win--dhcp?
10:18
<ogra>
nope
10:18
<cliebow_>
pete wrote the little blurb..maybe ill tag him,
10:19
<ogra>
i dont think he has any ibook experience
10:20
or ppc generally
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10:21
<cliebow_>
k..it is so close..works on a g3 bondi not an ibook..
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10:37
<str4nd>
Yarr, Where is some Good LDM Themes®?
10:38
<gvy>
guess in Central Repo for LTSP5 Docs
10:38
<ogra>
only in the package ... write some ;)
10:39
the shipped ones are in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/ in the installed system
10:39
<str4nd>
:)
10:39
<ogra>
i'll happily add any theme you send :)
10:39
(or create an ldm-themes package)
10:39
<str4nd>
Hmm, ok. :)
10:40
(looking it tomorrow)
10:40
<ogra>
but note that the gui part is in the middle of a full rewrite ...
10:40
the theme engine might change
10:41
<str4nd>
yep...
10:41
<ogra>
and i'm looking to find a QT dev to have an optional QT gui as well
10:43
<str4nd>
Megant_: Interested about QT?
10:43
<ogra>
actually thats a very good first timer project ...
10:43
the greeter is essentialy only a fullscreen window with one single input field
10:44
and it only needs to drop out username and passwd in an initial implementation
10:44
should be doable with 50-100 lines of code ...
10:46
<Megant_>
hmm, a greeter which uses qt?
10:48tsurc has quit IRC
10:48
<ogra>
yep
10:48nf1 has quit IRC
10:49
<ogra>
as an option for kde users who dont want to see gtk widgets :)
10:49
no KDE bindings though ... i just got rid of all the gnome stuff from the current one to only have plain gtk :)
10:51
<Megant_>
yeah
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10:59
<ogra>
OH.. WOW !!
10:59
https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-ltsp/+bug/109303
10:59
somebody is using python-ltsp :)
10:59* ogra dances
11:00
<jsgotangco>
heh
11:00
<Lumiere>
ogra: lol debug oops
11:02
<ogra>
well, its showing that someone uses it ... even its through a bug
11:04
(i didnt expect that at all yet ... i didnt advertise python-ltsp much yet)
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11:30
<cliebow_>
ogra:perhaps you should elaborate a little
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11:32
<ogra>
cliebow, well, python-ltsp is only a python module framework nothing uses yet
11:32
i didnt advertise it beyond this channel :)
11:32
<cliebow_>
ok
11:33
<ogra>
so i'm quite happy to see people finding it and shaking out some bugs before we really use it (in ltsp-manager)
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12:12
<[gvy]>
bb folks
12:12
thanks a lot, ogra
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12:53
<gonzaloaf_work>
how to install x11vnc or in general applications on the clients? in ltsp5?
12:54
<cliebow__>
gonzaloaf_work: there is a wikipage
12:54
<gonzaloaf_work>
ok
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12:55
<cliebow_>
it scrolled off.. hang a sec
12:55
https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VnconLTSPClients
12:56
big O in on there
12:56
https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLTSPClients
12:56
balls!
12:56
https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
12:57
meh 8~)
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13:06
<cliebow__>
Teach2.py
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13:15
<Q-FUN1>
howdy! one aspect of LTSP I'm having troubles understanding: is PXE support actually needed or does plain old Etherboot work?
13:15Q-FUN1 is now known as KRPL
13:15KRPL is now known as Q-FUN1
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13:17
<Q-FUN1>
as far as I can tell, PXE is essentially Etherboot but with full-featured DHCP instead of plain old BOOTP - od did I misuntrstand that one too?
13:18Q-FUN1 is now known as Q-FUNK
13:18
<pscheie>
Q-FUN1: etherboot works just fine, at least up through ltsp 4.2
13:18
I use etherboot floppies on the clients frequently
13:19
I think version 5 still supports it, too
13:19
<privet>
etherboot is an implementation of PXE (as far as I understand)
13:19
I am using etherboot with success on 4.2
13:19
<Q-FUNK>
privet: I thought it was the other way around?
13:19
<privet>
been using ltsp for only a month
13:20
have 2 PC's running with it...
13:20
so... "as I understand it"
13:20
<Q-FUNK>
ah. :)
13:20
<pscheie>
Q-FUNK: I think your analysis of pxe vs. etherboot is correct
13:21
although I've heard that the etherboot project is working on incorporating pxe
13:21
<Gadi>
ogra: ping
13:21
<pscheie>
not entirely sure what that means
13:21
<Q-FUNK>
I just keep on getting a lot of requests for thin clients that specifically support PXE, from LTSP users. I'm trying to determine what makes it better than plain old Etherboot.
13:22
pscheie: yes, I've sen that too. they are adding PXE support. however, it only seems to work with specific bioses and for building boot roms.
13:24
<Gadi>
Q-FUNK: the PXE bootloader is more configurable than when you simply download an nbi with etherboot
13:24
some people use that property to provide boot options to the end user
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13:24
<Q-FUNK>
Gadi: ok. in what way? I already know about plain BOOTP versus DHCP. what else am I missing?
13:25
<Gadi>
you can setup the PXE bootloader to provide a menu of boot options
13:25
just like with GRUB
13:25
so, the end user can choose to boot from network, locally, boot a memtester, ....
13:25
<Q-FUNK>
ah, ok. that could be usefull.
13:26
<Gadi>
plus you can configure boot options on the server
13:26
<Q-FUNK>
or well, that bootloader would actually be BIOS extension that comes with the NIC's bootrom, right?
13:26
<Gadi>
so, if you want different clients to have different kernel args, you can do it on the server per-client
13:26
which can also be done in dhcpd.conf with etherboot
13:26
<Blinny>
I have an easily-reproduced crashbug in Firefox 1.5.0.10, however running in a terminal doesn't show any debugging output.. FF just exits. What utility can I use to trace what it's doing when it dies? valgrind? gdb?
13:27
<Q-FUNK>
Gadi: right, I was gonna say that it reminds be of dhcpd.conf
13:28
Gadi: I work in hardware manufacturing. I was just trying to determine if getting full PXE support was worth the trouble of licensing a commercial BIOS. for plain Etherboot, we could do it using LinuxBIOS.
13:30
<pscheie>
Q-FUNK: I'd think most thin client users wouldn't care whether it's pxe or etherboot since ltsp supports both
13:30
They just don't want to be locked into WinCE or similar
13:30
<Q-FUNK>
pscheie: it mostly seems to be a buzzword that some custoemrs equate with "perfect LTSP support". I'm just trying to verify whether thta is factually true.
13:31
<pscheie>
I'd bet it isn't true, that they're just looking for buzzword compliance
13:31
Mostly, they want plug-n-play
13:31
if it's labeled 'netboot' or some such, most won't care what the code actually is
13:32
or so my gut tells me
13:32
<Q-FUNK>
personally, I've always been happy with Etherboot but some customers insist on getting PXE.
13:34
<pscheie>
quit
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13:44
<privet>
IMHO: some customers do not really know what they want...
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13:47
<Guaraldo>
privet: I'd sey it's normal...
13:47
:%s/sey/say
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15:07
<flying_shell>
good evening guys! I've got a problem with my lts.conf. I'm trying to connect directly to an MS Terminalserver with following configuration:
15:07
SCREEN_01 = rdesktop -f 143.93.32.7
15:07
But all that I see on my Thin CLients is a blank X Screen with an mouse cursor.
15:07
Can somebody help?
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15:07
<Gadi>
dont use -f
15:07
it will use it by default
15:08
<flying_shell>
just a moment i will try
15:08
<Gadi>
and put the whole thing in double quotes
15:08
"rdesktop <ip>"
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15:09
<flying_shell>
no change still the same screen
15:09
<Gadi>
ltsp 4.2?
15:09
<cliebow_>
ive got a double quote on both sides of my computer and it still doesnt work
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15:09
<flying_shell>
here my lts.conf
15:09
[Default]
15:09
SERVER = 192.168.104.2
15:09
XSERVER = auto
15:09
X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "PS/2"
15:09
X_MOUSE_DEVICE = "/dev/psaux"
15:09
X_MOUSE_RESOLUTION = 400
15:09
X_MOUSE_BUTTONS = 3
15:09
USE_XFS = N
15:09
SCREEN_01 = "rdesktop 143.93.32.7"
15:09
SCREEN_02 = shell
15:09
XKBVARIANT = NODEADKEYS
15:10
XKBSYMBOLS = de(pc105)
15:10
XKBMODEL = pc105
15:10
XKBLAYOUT = de
15:10
MODULE_01 = uhci-hcd
15:10
MODULE_02 = usblp
15:10
MODULE_03 = usb-storage
15:10
<Gadi>
flying_shell: first off, this should be useful:
15:10
<flying_shell>
LOCAL_STORAGE = Y
15:10
ltsp version 4.2
15:10
<Gadi>
!ltspbot pastebot
15:10
<ltspbot>
Gadi: Error: "ltspbot" is not a valid command.
15:10
<Gadi>
!ltspbot paste
15:10
<ltspbot>
Gadi: Error: "ltspbot" is not a valid command.
15:10
<Gadi>
!pastebot
15:10
<ltspbot>
Gadi: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
15:10
<Gadi>
there we go
15:10
:)
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15:11
<Gadi>
second: do you have NAT running on the server?
15:11
<flying_shell>
jep
15:12
but it couldnt be a network prob, because when i start a normal xsession i can connect to the server
15:12
<Gadi>
do you run xsession to SERVER?
15:13
<flying_shell>
only for test purposes
15:13
<Gadi>
well, then networking could very well be different
15:13
ctrl-alt-f2 and try to ping the RDP server
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15:13
<flying_shell>
thats it
15:14
<Gadi>
:)
15:14
<flying_shell>
no answer
15:14
thanks so much
15:14
<Gadi>
wait
15:14
we can fix it
15:14muh2000 has quit IRC
15:14
<Gadi>
but, try pinging the rdp server from the shell
15:14
does it work?
15:14
<flying_shell>
jep
15:14
<Gadi>
ah, ok
15:14
<flying_shell>
i think about ip forewarding via iptables
15:14
<Gadi>
nah, NAT will work fine with RDP
15:15
are you using LTSP 4.2?
15:15
<flying_shell>
of course
15:15
<Gadi>
and you can connect to the RDP server running rdesktop from another computer?
15:15
<flying_shell>
jep
15:15
the windows server runs without any problems
15:16
<Gadi>
hmm.. try ctrl-alt-f2, run: /etc/screen.d/rdesktop <IP>
15:16
then ctrl-alt-backspace
15:17
and see if there are any errors on the screen
15:17
<flying_shell>
ok one moment
15:18
only some failures with my fonts but nothing critical
15:18
<Gadi>
did they seem like X failures or rdesktop failures?
15:18
<flying_shell>
X failures
15:20
<Gadi>
and you are sure you can ping the IP from the shell? perhaps try telnetting from the shell to port 3389
15:20
it sounds an awful lot like a networking problem
15:20
<flying_shell>
i cant ping from a local shell (on the client) but directly from the server i can
15:21
<Gadi>
ah
15:21
then it is a networking problem
15:21
ok
15:21
on the server, make sure:
15:21
1. cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward return 1
15:22
2. make sure NAT is enabled: iptables -t nat -L
15:22
<flying_shell>
ok it returns 0
15:22
<Gadi>
ah
15:22
echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
15:22
how about iptables?
15:23
<flying_shell>
ok the ts answers on the client
15:23
<Gadi>
ok - to make it permanent edit: /etc/sysctl.conf
15:23
<flying_shell>
but thers still a blank x :)
15:24
<Gadi>
a blank X?
15:24
<flying_shell>
when i start the rpd connection via /etc/screen.d/rdesktop 143.93.32.7
15:25
ok i've got it
15:26
after 14h worktime i've got an login screen
15:26
genius
15:26
but local devices are not functional via rdesktop
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15:28
<Gadi>
flying_shell: thats true because of the ltspfs stuff. I have a package on the WorkInProgress section of the wiki that can get you local devices on rdesktop
15:28
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WorkInProgress#LTSP_4_2_RDP_localdev
15:29
<flying_shell>
sounds great
15:30
<Gadi>
your mileage may vary
15:30
with all the LTSP5 work going on, that package hasnt been given the most testing, but it does work....
15:30
give it a shot
15:32
<flying_shell>
i will give a try
15:33
but i've got an other problem
15:33
i've made an rc script for Iptables
15:33
but after the exec of the script the tftp doesnt answer
15:34
<ltsppbot>
"flying_shell" pasted "NAT Script" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/110
15:36
<Gadi>
try dropping the SNAT line, flushing the tables and set
15:38
<flying_shell>
tftp is now reachable again
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15:38
<flying_shell>
i hope the ts too
15:38
:)
15:39
it looks very good
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15:40
<flying_shell>
local_dev's are functional too
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15:41
<flying_shell>
ok now i must only make two additional configs for two seperate clients
15:41
because thy should start an xsession
15:44
<randombrown>
Anyone able to help with a (hopefully) basic question? I'm trying to use a PXE ltsp client with Windows DHCP. I saw an article on it, but it wasn't clear.
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15:47
<sbalneav>
randombrown: This might help:
15:47
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP
15:48
<randombrown>
That's the one!
15:48
<sutula>
!ask
15:48
<ltspbot>
sutula: Error: "ask" is not a valid command.
15:48
<randombrown>
I can get as far as reserving the IP address for the particular client, but I don't know where to put the configuration options he mentions.
15:49
<sbalneav>
randombrown: Somewhere in the GUI, I'd expect :)
15:49
Haven't run windows for years, so I don't know where you'd find it.
15:50
<randombrown>
So those options are to be entered on the windows side? Oh, I thought those were ltsp options for the LTSP server!
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15:51
<sbalneav>
Are these going to be dedicated thin clients? Or are you going to have them sometimes be LTSP clients, and sometimes run "other" operating systems?
15:51
You may find it easier to simply put a second NIC in the ltsp server, and hang all the terminals off that one nic.
15:51
<randombrown>
They're going to be dedicated ltsp clients.
15:51
<sbalneav>
Then you can use the Linux DHCP server, and just have it serve addresses on that segment.
15:52
So if eth0 is your backbone, then eth1 could be for the terminals, and just restrict the Linux DHCP server to only hand out addresses on eth1
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15:53
<randombrown>
Is there a specific command for that in dhcpd.conf?
15:55
<sbalneav>
What distribution of Linux are you running?
15:55
<randombrown>
edubuntu 7.04
15:55
but I'm not wedded to it
15:56
<sbalneav>
No, that's fine.
15:56
Modify /etc/default/dhcp3-server
15:56
change the line that says:
15:56
INTERFACES=""
15:56
Which will make it listen on ALL interfaces, to something like:
15:57
INTERFACES="eth1"
15:57
Which will cause it to listen to a specific interfaces.
15:57
s/s.$/./g
15:57
<randombrown>
Excellent, thank you very much!
15:57
<sbalneav>
No problem.
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16:20
<cliebow>
sbalneav:you are a Good Man
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17:05
<gonzaloaf_work>
hi, is it possible that my clients play sound through their own soundcard?
17:05
ltsp5 btw
17:06
<cliebow>
shou;d pretty much work out of the box..
17:06
<gonzaloaf_work>
ahh?
17:07
<cliebow>
ogra is prob sleeping..
17:07
<gonzaloaf_work>
ohhhh he is the man?
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17:14
<cliebow>
yes..
17:14
ltsp5 is his imp0lementaion in many ways
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<gonzaloaf_work>
I dont know what happened, I put the correct user and password but my clients doesnt login, why?
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19:52
<gonzaloaf_work>
is ogra around there
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