IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 19 February 2010   (all times are UTC)

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00:40
<vagrantc>
should really give ltsp-docs a look over and upload a new version of that, too...
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01:58
<vagrantc>
ok... debian/changelog for ltsp 5.2 started in at around 200 lines ... now down to 84 ... nearly done.
01:58* vagrantc sighs
01:58
<alkisg>
Ouch
01:59
<vagrantc>
a bit more verbose than the ubuntu changelogs :)
01:59
<alkisg>
"Major improvements. For details see `bzr log`." <== done in 1 line :P :D
01:59
<vagrantc>
not sure if the verbosity is good or bad... sure it's a bit of both.
01:59
<alkisg>
I like verbose changelogs, but in reasonable sizes
01:59
E.g. 20-40 lines..
02:00
<vagrantc>
we should really generate the changelogs for ltsp-trunk and ldm-trunk like we do for ltspfs ...
02:00
though debian/changelog is still different than upstream's changelog ...
02:00* panthera nods.
02:01* vagrantc waves to panthera
02:01
<panthera>
i cherrish short (but precise) debian/changelog entries.
02:01* panthera re-waves :)
02:02
<vagrantc>
something worth learning from ubuntu: " * LOTS and LOTS of other fixes and optimizations
02:02
"
02:04
<alkisg>
So squeeze will have LTSP 5.2? Is that "scheduled" for 2010?
02:04
<vagrantc>
freeze was planned for march, though sounds likely will be ... later.
02:05
<alkisg>
Nice :)
02:05
<vagrantc>
while there's definitely a push to release more often, thankfully debian still sees bugs in the distribution as what should really determine release :)
02:06
(as if there's a unified "debian" view)
02:06
<alkisg>
What I'd like is a timed schedule like Ubuntu's for freezes, followed by debian's "ok done importing, but now we'll release when we're ready" policy :)
02:06
<vagrantc>
seems to be the general direction it's taking
02:06
<panthera>
that would be nice, but it's not feasible these days.
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02:07
<panthera>
(too many rc bugs)
02:07
<vagrantc>
yeah, taking a really broken point is perhaps not the best time to freeze.
02:07
it only stalls progress on resolving those issues
02:08
<alkisg>
If many projects started following a 6 months release cycle, it would make freezes easier
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02:55
<vagrantc>
well, just uploaded ltsp 5.2, ldm 2.1 and ltspfs 0.6 to debian :)
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03:03
<dmarkey_>
vagrantc: is fat client mode in that?
03:10
<vagrantc>
dmarkey_: not such that it's just a build flag, but otherwise everything's there... you just have to choose what packages you want in the chroot and set LTSP_FATCLIENT=true.
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03:14
<vagrantc>
probably wouldn't be hard to adapt the ubuntu plugin or kiosk plugins
03:20
alkisg: looking at the 030-fat-client plugin, i noticed a comment that /etc/X11/default-display-managergets reset....
03:20
i'm guessing that's because you end up with gdm installed ...
03:21
any of the display managers that respect /etc/X11/default-display-manager will only support others that properly support default-display-manager ... and so always overwrite it if there is an invalid value.
03:21
i.e. a removed default-display-manager...
03:22
this has the undesireable affect that there's no way to properly disable that behavior.
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03:22
<vagrantc>
i guess i should file wishlist bugs on all the display managers...
03:22
and with that, i sleep.
03:24
<alkisg>
vagrantc: good night
03:24
(reading...)
03:24
vagrantc: I don't really understand why wouldn't gdm respect it
03:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: because you're not following Pax Displayicus Managerius protocols.
03:25
<alkisg>
But I'm writing ldm in /etc/X11/default-display-manager, what more is needed?
03:25
Should I also export $HOCUS_POCUS?
03:25
<vagrantc>
an absurd number of hoop-jumping steps.
03:26
as if it were that easy!
03:26
<alkisg>
Grrr :)
03:26
At least the second time it works fine :D
03:26
<vagrantc>
until you upgrade gdm or some other *dm in the chroot.
03:26
<alkisg>
I *could* also make a cron job that overwrites that file every X minutes :D
03:27
From what I read in gdm.postinst, it respects an existing entry there
03:27
<vagrantc>
i think getting the protocol to accept some "DON'T OVERWRITE ME" value would be a good idea.
03:27
<alkisg>
Maybe something else, not gdm, is overwriting that file, but I don't know what it is
03:28* alkisg tries apt-get install --reinstall gdm in a fat chroot...
03:28
<vagrantc>
maybe it's been made smarter ... but in the past it would only accept those DM's that followed lock-step in sync.
03:29
or maybe ubuntu handles it differently
03:29
<alkisg>
`lock-step in sync`? I'm not sure I want to know what that is.. :D
03:29
<vagrantc>
http://bugs.debian.org/267198
03:30
that was my first exposure to the issue.
03:31
<alkisg>
apt-get install --reinstall gdm did keep the file intact...
03:31
...reading the link...
03:32
<vagrantc>
hmmm.
03:32
ah well..
03:33
maybe if there is no default-display-manager in debconf, gdm assumes that /etc/X11/default-display-manager isn't set?
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03:34
<alkisg>
I think I saw a comment in gdm.postinst that says it wouldn't do that
03:34
# debconf is not a registry, so we only fiddle with the default file if it
03:34
# does not exist
03:34
<vagrantc>
well, there's sometimes a difference between intention and implementation :)
03:35
at any rate... i'll let you ponder the idea without me :)
03:35
<alkisg>
if [ ! -e $DEFAULT_DISPLAY_MANAGER_FILE ]; then
03:35
Thanks though :)
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06:31
<mgariepy>
good morning all
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08:33
<cliebow>
ittttsss Gadi!!!!
08:39
<Gadi>
good mornin, cliebow
08:39
:)
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09:36
<alkisg>
I'm declaring NBD_SWAP=True in lts.conf but my clients don't get an swap partition. If I run the nbd-client command manually, they do get a swap partition. Any hints?
09:44
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Hmmm, something with inetd.conf?
09:44
<alkisg>
sbalneav: if I run the command manually from the client, it works fine
09:44
So I guess the problem is either in the client, or I'm missing something in lts.conf...
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09:45
<sbalneav>
Maybe we're not hitting that part of the initscripts anymore?
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09:46
<sbalneav>
Didn't some work happen opposite "upstartifying" the initscripts?
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09:49
<alkisg>
Sorry, my box decided to hang when I was trying `eval $(getltscfg -a)`
09:49
sbalneav: I lost everything except for your first reply...
09:50
Could you copy/paste whatever you said after that?
09:54
<sbalneav>
Maybe we're not hitting that part of the initscripts anymore?
09:54
Didn't some work happen opposite "upstartifying" the initscripts?
09:55
<alkisg>
That might be the problem... I tried to run ltsp-client-setup manually, and it worked fine
09:55
So either a race, or it doesn't run at all
10:00
<grantk>
Im trying to work through local printing issues, I made it past finding a copy of jetpipe, getting it into my chroot environment with python-serial. I can now telnet to a client at port 9100 with the correct entries in lts.conf, but can not print. Last night I was able to see printed pages when i would do a 'cat /dev/lp0' but the pages would not print. Anyone have seen this before?
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10:10
<reynolds>
alkisg, my itlac stopped working again? opon opening it this morning I got the same message as before, about the service not running or keys broken.
10:10
<alkisg>
reynolds: did you change/install something?
10:11
<reynolds>
i removed totem!
10:11
<alkisg>
yeah, shouldn't matter... :D
10:12
I'm a little busy right now trying to debug something, if noone else helps you and you have time to wait, I'll be available later on...
10:13
<reynolds>
ok thanks
10:13
if anyone else knows about i talc and wants to help me out you can check out http://pastebin.com/d283c1708
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10:29
<mordocai>
Hello, I have LTSP successfully set up in a test environment, but have run into a problem. I want the user to be able to log in with LDAP, and then have nothing availible to them but firefox web browser, not even a home directory. I have looked into GNOME and KDE but, playing with both, their lockdown tools appear to be outdated and broken, or otherwise unusable. Any suggestions?
10:29
Oh, forgot to mention. LDAP works perfectly
10:32
<alkisg>
sbalneav: Hmmm it looks like it's using port NBD_PORT, which is 2000, which is the nbd image port, not the swap port. That's why it isn't working, and that's why I was seeing too many nbd-client instances...
10:34
That should read "NBD_SWAP_PORT". Testing...
10:36
<cliebow>
mordocai, how about icewm?
10:39
<mordocai>
cilebow: Well, I looked at it. It just seems so light... i'm afraid people who have never used linux before will get turned of from it, thinking linux is still in the windows 95 era. I like a light windows manager for my own use but,in my experience,the "normal user" likes pretty graphics.
10:40
s/of/off
10:40
<sbalneav>
mordocai: The Gnome lockdown editor, sabayon, is maintained by myself.
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10:42
<mordocai>
sbalnaev: yes, i believe i had a conversation on the sabayon mailing list with you. Various issues, then my work ordered me to try KDE. Now that kde isn't working... i get to try whatever i want again. My e-mail is mordocai@gmail.com, if you want to look it up.
10:42
<sbalneav>
mordocai: you should be able to set up a panel with just a firefox icon on it, and disable the alt-f2 "run" dialogue box.
10:43
mordocai: yes, and I beleive I was helping you with your issue when you bailed.
10:43
<mordocai>
sbalnaev: Well, not my choice... but yes.
10:43
<sbalneav>
If you'd like to pick it up again, I'd be happy to help.
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10:45
<mordocai>
Yeah, I'd like to. I always liked gnome better anyway.
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10:47
<alkisg>
sbalneav: some help, please? There's a mixup in the variable names (SWAP_SERVER vs NBD_SWAP_SERVER, NBD_PORT vs NBD_SWAP_PORT) and that's why it doesn't work
10:47
Should we change the docs + some code, or only some code? :D
10:48
<sbalneav>
So, we're using NBD_PORT in the code where we SHOULD be using NBD_SWAP_PORT?
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10:48
<sbalneav>
Code only then, I'd say :)
10:49
<alkisg>
Well, the docs say otherwise :D
10:49
E.g. the docs say SWAP_SERVER, and the code uses both SWAP_SERVER and NBD_SWAP_SERVER
10:49
<cliebow>
mordocai, i used icewm and nautilus ..made it pretty workable
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10:50
<alkisg>
sbalneav: the docs say "NBD_PORT" and the code is using both "NBD_PORT" and "NBD_SWAP_PORT"
10:50
NBD_PORT is also used for the nbd root server (not the swap server)
10:51
So it's quite misleading
10:51
(and broken :D)
10:51
I'd vote to change the docs + the code to NBD_SWAP_PORT, which is less misleading...
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10:52
<sbalneav>
Sounds good to me
10:52
<alkisg>
sbalneav: ok, I'll take care of the code, could you modify the docs?
10:52
<sbalneav>
Sure could
10:53
<alkisg>
Thanks!
10:53
<sbalneav>
How do you say "One moment please" in Greek?
10:53
<alkisg>
Μισό λεπτό (half a minute...)
10:54
So to sum up, NBD_PORT=the nbd root port, used in pxelinux.cfg/default, *not* used in the docs.
10:54
NBD_SWAP_SERVER and NBD_SWAP_PORT go in the docs.
10:56
<sbalneav>
ok, should have an update shortyly
10:56
<alkisg>
Ευχαριστώ :)
10:57
<mordocai>
sbalneav: I had to reinstall Fedora at some point, so i'm setting up my environment again. With luck, it will just work.
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10:58
<sbalneav>
What does NBD_SWAP_SERVER and NBD_SWAP_PORT default to, if not specified? $SERVER and 2001?
11:00
<alkisg>
$SERVER and 9572
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11:02
<Gadi>
man, alkisg - ur making me miss engineering school with all that greek
11:02
;)
11:03
<alincoln>
stgraber: do you plan to include ltsp-remoteappsd in ltsp-client-core.install for lucid?
11:03
<Gadi>
somehow "half a minute" translates into a Poisson equation
11:03
<alkisg>
Heh!
11:04
<cliebow>
now it is Gadi speaking Greek
11:06
<mordocai>
sbalneav: Is this the best place to ask you for help with sabayon? Or would you rather me ask on the mailing list or another channel?
11:06
<stgraber>
alincoln: I thought it already was there ... I'll fix that.
11:06
<alincoln>
stgraber: thanks!
11:06
<stgraber>
alkisg: hey, I'd need these gconf schema to fix fat client btw
11:06
<alkisg>
Erm, what should happen now with AltLinux? E.g. nbd-client ${SWAP_SERVER:-$SERVER} ${NBD_PORT:-9210}
11:06
Should I change those references to e.g. nbd-client ${NBD_SWAP_SERVER:-$SERVER} ${NBD_SWAP_PORT:-9210}
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11:07
<alkisg>
stgraber: I tried it again now, and it works fine for me *without* hiding the applet for fat clients
11:07
<sbalneav>
mordocai: BEST place would be in #sabayon on the irc.gnome.org server, but I'm happy to help here or on the mailing list.
11:07
<alkisg>
stgraber: Gdm is now installed (just not active), so shutdown/reboot seem to work fine...
11:08
<stgraber>
alkisg: yeah but the screensaver is broken ;) (as in, it won't unlock)
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11:08
<alkisg>
Uh yeah that's needed :)
11:08
OK, I'll send them in a few days (testing is loooong with fat clients :()
11:09
<stgraber>
ok
11:09
<alkisg>
stgraber: nbd swapping is broken, I'll upload a fix soon, that won't be in Lucid, right?
11:09
<stgraber>
I'll probably update lucid again if there's enough bug fix
11:09
<alkisg>
Goodies :)
11:09
<stgraber>
nbd swapping isn't exactly critical as it's not enabled by default but still worth fixing
11:09
<mordocai>
sbalneav: Okay, does irc.gnome.org have a webchat like this network does? My network blocks irc, but the webchat client gets around it. My network security guy doesn't like me much, so he won't let me through lol.
11:10
<sbalneav>
mordocai: Don't know, off the top of my head. But buy him beer, that usually works for me. Or scotch :)
11:11
alkisg: k, working on the docs now.
11:12
so, should we ditch "SWAP_SERVER"?
11:12
<mordocai>
sbalneav: Heh, yeah. His problem is he doesn't get that intellectual arguments aren't personal. In any case, i ran ./configure then make then make install from sabayon-2.29.5-rc2's root folder, and when I try the command sabayon i get this error: http://pastebin.org/94100
11:13
make install was as root, rest were as a normal user
11:13
<sbalneav>
mordocai: this is the import error again.
11:13
./configure --prefix=/
11:14
<mordocai>
oh, duh. Sorry, should have looked back through my previous problems...
11:15
<alkisg>
sbalneav: my line of thought is: NBD_PORT is currently used for both the root and the swap port (and that's why swapping is broken). So we'd better change that to NBD_SWAP_PORT. Also, SWAP_SERVER and NBD_SWAP_SERVER are both used in the code (another broken part). I think it makes sense to keep only the latter...
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11:15
<alkisg>
*and NBD_SWAP_PORT is also currently used in some parts of the code
11:16
<sbalneav>
right, since nfs swapping doesn't work anymore
11:16
so
11:16
SWAP_SERVER -> NBD_SWAP_SERVER
11:17
create NBD_SWAP_PORT entry
11:17
fixin
11:17
<alkisg>
sbalneav: don't create NBD_SWAP_PORT entry, change the existing NBD_PORT one
11:17
So NBD_PORT won't be referenced at all in the docs
11:18
(as it is an internal, pxelinux.cfg/default & inetd.conf thing)
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11:18
<sbalneav>
alkisg: right
11:19* alkisg is still unsure about how to handle the Altlinux code...
11:20
<vagrantc>
don't bother with altlinux.
11:20
<alkisg>
Thanks ;)
11:21
<vagrantc>
every once and a while michael shingori has something to say ... but haven't seen any action on the code.
11:21
supposedly they're running some ltsp4/ltsp5 hybrid environment...
11:21
<sbalneav>
alkisg: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk/revision/105#lts.conf.xml
11:22
<alkisg>
sbalneav: thanks, looks fine. I'll test for a while and commit later on
11:22
<vagrantc>
the code is still broken though, no?
11:22* sbalneav gives vagrantc a great big hug for documenting things in the docs :)
11:23
<vagrantc>
awww.
11:23
for every piece i document, i'm sure i introduce 3 things i don't :)
11:23
<sbalneav>
That's fine. It's the attempt to document new stuff I appreciate :)
11:23
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yup, it's broken, any help appreciated :D (I'll give it a shot later on...)
11:24
<vagrantc>
i remember looking at that while busy with other things and thinking we should fix it for 5.2...
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11:25
<Gadi>
speaking of which, did we want to move away from port 2000?
11:25
or is that too crazy
11:25
leave that for v6
11:25
<vagrantc>
yeah, that was the other one.
11:25
<alkisg>
That'd be fine - I wonder why we didn't do that for 5.2 :)
11:26
<vagrantc>
everyone knows to not trust the initial release of a new minor version! :)
11:26
<Gadi>
with the new code, there are only 2 places to change it
11:26
l-u-i and ltsp_nbd
11:27
and folks would need to run l-u-i after updating the chroot, so upgrade path should work
11:27
<vagrantc>
should we just be explicity and change NBD_PORT to NBD_SWAP_PORT and NBD_ROOT_PORT , and NBD_SERVER to NBD_SWAP_SERVER and NBD_ROOT_SERVER ?
11:28
<Gadi>
well, be careful, because NBD_SERVER is used in several places now, I think
11:29
<vagrantc>
sure
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11:32* vagrantc commits the NBD_SWAP_SERVER changes to ltsp-init-common
11:32* alkisg sighs in relief :)
11:37
<mordocai>
sbalneav: Well, i'm about where I was before. I still have that segmentation fault when I click users. However, even groups apparently isn't working right? I went through and just selected the group my account is in, and logged in and it had the default profile. Then i selected all groups and logged in, still no profiles applied. groups.xml seems to have been written properly. Here is the .xsession-errors, though I don't think any
11:38
<sbalneav>
mordocai: sentence ended at "I don't think any"
11:39
And both groups and users works fine for quite a number of people, so I suspect it's something in your environment.
11:39
<kebax>
have you ever seen anything like this: http://blog.kebaxhouse.net/images/2010/02/compaq_mini_ltsp_session_gone_crazy.jpg
11:40
<mordocai>
sbalneav: That's wierd, shows up here. anyways the rest was: of them have anything to do with sabayon: http://pastebin.org/94109. ideas? And i'm sure it is something with me, i just don't know what it is...
11:40
<ogra>
kebax, tun off desktop effects
11:40
its a compiz bug
11:40
<kebax>
okay, I'll try that
11:40
<ogra>
alkisg, can tell you stories about it i think :)
11:41
<kebax>
ummm, there are no effects in use
11:42
<sbalneav>
mordocai: You're trying to edit a profile over an SSH connection?
11:42
<alkisg>
!compiz
11:42
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "compiz" :: In the words of one of the most famous LTSP devs, The greatest pleasure compiz can give you is: `sudo apt-get purge compiz`. And if it gets back on the next update, you just get the joy of doing it once more.
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11:42
<ogra>
alkisg, that command is broken :)
11:42
<mordocai>
sbalneav: Well, i'm editing the profile locally. I'm logging in from a ltsp client. But I just tried locally, and the profile still isn't applied.
11:43
<ogra>
sudo apt-get remove --purge compiz
11:43
<alkisg>
ogra, why? old school stuff?
11:43
<ogra>
oh
11:43
i didnt know that !
11:43
<alkisg>
purge has been there for some time now :)
11:44
<ogra>
yeah, i'm getting old :)
11:44
<vagrantc>
really?!
11:44* ogra has a 4 in front of his age since this week
11:44
<vagrantc>
ogra: congrats on surviving!
11:44* alkisg first learned the purge command, and _then_ the remove --purge parameter... :D
11:44
<ogra>
vagrantc, thanks :)
11:45* ogra waits on losing more teeth and his hair now
11:45
<alkisg>
ogra, wow... by looking at your pics, I thought you were younger than me... heh, good life shows :D
11:45
<sbalneav>
mordocai: can you paste the contents of your /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/sabayon-xinitrc.sh file?
11:46
<ogra>
heh, i wasnt aware i ever published youth pics :)
11:46etyack has joined #ltsp
11:46
<ogra>
i find i look quite old on recent ones ... ubuntu leaves its traces
11:47
<mordocai>
sbalneav: aha, changing the prefix made it install to /usr/etc/ instead.
11:47
<vagrantc>
hrm. gets tricky in ldm to check for NBD_PORT and/or NBD_ROOT_PORT
11:47etyack has quit IRC
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11:48
<vagrantc>
without breaking compatibility, that is...
11:48
<sbalneav>
mordocai: there's also a bug in the apply file:
11:48
http://git.gnome.org/browse/sabayon/commit/?id=e05fbc8b017808a24874a24c4afad023afaa8306
11:49
the file shouldn't have a shebang
11:49
<alkisg>
vagrantc: just leave it as NBD_PORT then... I don't think it'll be confusing after the swap changes
11:49
NBD_PORT and NBD_SERVER, no ROOT anywhere
11:49
<vagrantc>
alkisg: well, NBD_PORT pre-dates using NBD for root.
11:50
so we're actually changing the behavior of NBD_PORT
11:50
and if we're doing that, i'd rather change it to something more explicit.
11:50
<alkisg>
Yeah, but with 2 years of "notice" inbetween, where NBD_PORT didn't work for swapping :D
11:50
<kebax>
er, actually I may have those effects on
11:51
<vagrantc>
alkisg: still, i'd rather switch to something more explicit to avoid future similar problems.
11:51
<alkisg>
OK, understandable. /me has no problem as long as it works...
11:52
<vagrantc>
gah. these NBD variables are a disaster.
11:52
in some places it's safe to leave it alone. in some places it's not. and in some places it seems best to change them.
11:53
<alkisg>
vagrantc: btw, you were right about gdm. gdm.postinst didn't delete the file, but gdm.config *did* delete it. I used preseeding to change it, but maybe ldm should do that instead of the fat client script
11:53
<vagrantc>
:)
11:53
<alkisg>
Should I send an example ldm.config file to be considered for packaging?
11:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: really, we should have a way to tell GDM and other *DM to keep their fingers from messing with *my* configuration files.
11:54
alkisg: another option is fixing it at boot time :)
11:55
<alkisg>
If we've marked ldm as the default display manager in debconf, then gdm "behaves"
11:55
It prompts to select which dm the user wants, but it does the right thing with frontend=noninteractive
11:55
<vagrantc>
awful.
11:55
i mean, ok in our case ... but ugly design.
11:55
<alkisg>
So if we just use debconf + write /etc/X11/default-display-manager, we're ok
11:56
<vagrantc>
s,but,butt-,g
11:56
<alkisg>
Yup, that Pax Displayicus Managerius sucks
11:59
<kebax>
ogra: the UI is unusable so cannot turn off the desktop effects and theres no keyboard & monitor in server anymore, any ideas?
11:59etyack1 is now known as etyack_scale
11:59
<ogra>
kebax, see alkisg's line above
12:00Selveste1_ has joined #ltsp
12:00
<ogra>
!compiz
12:00
<ltspbot`>
ogra: "compiz" :: In the words of one of the most famous LTSP devs, The greatest pleasure compiz can give you is: `sudo apt-get purge compiz`. And if it gets back on the next update, you just get the joy of doing it once more.
12:00
<alkisg>
kebax: wait a minute to give you a disabling line, instead of a purging one...
12:00
<ogra>
just use that command
12:00
or that :)
12:00
<kebax>
I wont break anything, wont I? ;)
12:00
<alkisg>
sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
12:01
This forces disabling compiz for all users
12:01
Some logoff etc might be needed, not sure
12:01
<vagrantc>
heh. the docs lead the development for the first time ever today!
12:02
<alkisg>
Go go sbalneav!
12:02
<vagrantc>
"if you document it they will code."
12:07
<kebax>
hey
12:07
thanks guys
12:07
you're great :)
12:07bernardo0cd0 has quit IRC
12:08
<mordocai>
sbalneav: What is the url for the sabayon git repository? Like if i wanted to git clone it.
12:11
<knipwim>
mordocai: http://git.gnome.org/cgit/sabayon/
12:13
<mordocai>
knipwim: Hmm... yeah, i've tried git clone git://git.gnome.org/sabayon/ (from http://live.gnome.org/Git/Developers) as well as the same with http://git.gnome.org/cgit/sabayon... maybe my network blocks git as well...
12:15
<johnny>
you can't clone from cgit..
12:15
<mordocai>
I figured, I was just trying it to make sure.
12:16
<johnny>
git clone git://git.gnome.org/sabayon is what i have..
12:16
<knipwim>
telnet git.gnome.org 9418 ?
12:16
<johnny>
not sure if the / at the end will cause a problem..
12:16
try with http as well
12:17
ah.. http doesn't work..
12:17
<mordocai>
Okay, yeah. Another thing my network security guy has locked down. I work at a community college, and he's rather paranoid lol.
12:17
<johnny>
time for a tunnel..
12:31
<mordocai>
There has to be something wrong with my setup... nothing is working with sabayon. Changes to profiles aren't being saved, profiles don't appear to be even trying to apply themselves, and I get seg faults and other errors sometimes when saving and sometimes when removing a profile.
12:37atomic007za has quit IRC
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12:59
<dro>
looks like maybe mordocai's security guy has blocked irc chat lol
13:02pem725 has joined #ltsp
13:03
<sbalneav>
heh, he'll be blocking his mail access next :)
13:05
<pem725>
hey all, is there an updated fatclient HOWTO for Ubuntu 9.10? I am thinking about deploying fat clients from now on due to power of my thin clients (many with 2GB RAM) and reasonable processors.
13:06
<kebax>
what is fat client?
13:06
<alkisg>
pem725: there's just a mail from stgraber about it, but I've done dozens of fat client installations, so I may help whenever you have problems
13:06
You'll need stgraber's ppa in your sources, thought, with the latest ltsp
13:06
<pem725>
OK
13:06
I'll ad it to my sources right away.
13:06
any gotchas I should be aware of before plunging in?
13:07
I'm plunging in right now...
13:07the_fronny has joined #ltsp
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13:08
<dro>
kebax: it is a client that pulls an image from the ltsp server, then uses it's own local resources to work
13:08
<pem725>
kebax, a fat client is a client that uses its own resources to run apps - at least that is what I read to date. Thus, if you have a powerful client and want to off load some of the cpu and ram responsibilities then it makes sense to use a fat client.
13:09
<dro>
i need to switch all my installs to fat clients
13:09
but i'm waiting until after lucid comes out
13:09
that way I don't have to upgrade twice
13:10
<alkisg>
....and it'll be much more stable, as fat clients aren't much tested yet
13:10
Testers are very welcome, though ;)
13:10
<pem725>
dro: I am rolling the dice and hoping that karmic comes through with a stable alternative to my bogged down network.
13:11
<the_fronny>
Can someone point me to a webpage describing the use of NFS instead of NBD with LTSP5? I've been hitting a "failed to connect to NBD server" error and I'm tired of trying to patch Ubuntu/LTSP code.
13:11
<dro>
pem725: whats bogging down your network
13:11
<pem725>
cpu and ram usage.
13:11
both maxed out with my thin clients
13:11
<alkisg>
vagrantc: we had a quick chat in the ML about automatically enabling NBD_SWAP for low RAM clients. You argued that ltsp_nbd is not a good place to do that, and I agree. But what if we did that in configure_swap()?
13:11
I.e., at the top of configure_swap, we could add a couple of lines: if [ -z "$NBD_SWAP" ]; then if the client has <= 80 ram; then NBD_SWAP=True.
13:11
And in the docs: "NBD_SWAP defaults to true for clients with < 80 MB ram, and to false for clients with > 80 MB RAM".
13:11
<pem725>
and my thin clients are not really that thin.
13:11
<dro>
the_fronny: instead lets try to fix the nbd issues....probably ane asy fix
13:12
the_fronny: what type of dhcp server do you use? linux or windows?
13:12
<kebax>
so, fat client would be useful for, say, showing hd video?
13:12
<the_fronny>
dro: Linux, karmic, i386
13:12
<dro>
pem725: oh gotcha, the ltsp server is being maxed out....yea time for fat clients
13:12
<pem725>
kebax: yep
13:12
wish me luck!
13:12
<dro>
the_fronny: is your dhcp server the ltsp server also?
13:13pem725 has quit IRC
13:13
<the_fronny>
dro: Yes.
13:13
<dro>
the_fronny: in your dhcpd.conf do you have next-server defined?
13:13
<the_fronny>
dro: lemme look...
13:14
<alkisg>
the_fronny: you want to have 2 different chroots with NFS? How's that going to be simpler, as opposed to 2 NBD chroots? NBD isn't your problem. Multiple chroots is...
13:15
<the_fronny>
dro: It was in there (the server's IP addy) but commented. I uncommented it and re-started DHCP
13:15
<dro>
the_fronny: see if your nbd error goes away now
13:15
<the_fronny>
dro: I'm trying it now.
13:16
<dro>
the_fronny: you trying to run multiple chroots or something weird?
13:16
i wish i could use my name as my chat name
13:16
you guys would laugh at my last name
13:16
<alkisg>
Why?
13:17
<dro>
Hunsucker :)
13:17
<alkisg>
;)
13:17
<dro>
and that hun , is pronounced like the "hon" in "honey"
13:18
<sbalneav>
dro: no worse than "Balneaves"
13:18
<the_fronny>
dro: Yes, one for some 'typical' clients and one for Aspire Revos (Atom). I pulled a recipe off an Ubuntu page. Might those instructions be broken?
13:19
<dro>
sbalneav: I don't know about that i guess i could register thunsucker
13:19
the_fronny: was just curious alkisg posted something to about doign multiple chroots, is your issue resolved?
13:20dro is now known as thunsucker
13:20lsenft has joined #ltsp
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13:21
<thunsucker>
the_fronny: did that resolve your issue
13:21
<the_fronny>
dro: I chatted with him yesterday. No, things are still broken. I'll roll back to zero and try just one chroot first.
13:22
<thunsucker>
the_fronny: k cool, so still a nbd error?
13:24
<vagrantc>
alkisg: enabling NBD swap by default would require enabling the server-side nbdswapd by default ... or at least proper handling if the server doesn't have it enabled.
13:24
<the_fronny>
thunsucker: Yes. Look, I'm going to assume the recipe I'm using is broken and get just one chroot going. If the NBD error shows up then I'll post. Sorry for the trouble. I'm pretty good with LTSP-4.2 but the newer clients we're going to just don't work with that. Thanks.
13:24
<lsenft>
I'm having some trouble with my ltsp system. I read that multiple instances of nbd can cause problems. There are currently multiple instances of nbd running on my ltsp server. Is this normal? Should there be an instance for each user? I have multiple users on the system so I'm not in a position to restart the server or service until the end of the day.
13:25
<thunsucker>
the_fronny: well the big thing that i see new ltsp users do, is not update their server and their chroot's
13:25
<alkisg>
vagrantc: only for low ram clients, which require it anyway
13:25
<thunsucker>
lsenft: what type of problems are you having?
13:26
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i routinely test with 64MB clients without troubles.
13:26
<alkisg>
With no swap at all?
13:26
<vagrantc>
yes.\
13:26
<alkisg>
I've experienced some problems, and others reported problems as well
13:27mordocai has joined #ltsp
13:27
<alkisg>
Hmmm...
13:27
<the_fronny>
thunsucker: Did all that. By the book. That's why I'm so frustrated. I'll step back a bit and keep it kindergarten until it works, then try fancy. Thanks.
13:27
<thunsucker>
the_fronny: sounds good
13:27
the_fronny: do you have the link for the ubuntu ltsp wiki?
13:27bobby_C has joined #ltsp
13:28
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think ogra enabled the swap from initramfs just to get really low spec clients to be able to boot at all.
13:28
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yup, I got that part, that's why I proposed configure_swap instead
13:28
<mordocai>
sbalnaev: Okay, i'm just reformatted my drive and resinstalled fedora with default settings. I'm going to set up ltsp again, then we'll see if I can get sabayon working... hopefully it was just some lingering config issue
13:28
<vagrantc>
alkisg: as mounting the root filesystem with squashfs and aufs and all that actually may briefly require a lot of ram...
13:28
<lsenft>
thunsucker: The system is being very flaky. Yesterday we rebuilt the image to include sunbird. People that have the old image are doing fine. The new image hangs after you boot, if it boots at all. Sometimes you get a message saying that it cannot connect to the server when you try to login. Other times it can't even get the image to boot.
13:29
<thunsucker>
lsenft: did you update the chroot before you installed sunbird?
13:29
<the_fronny>
thunsucker: I had http://wiki.ltsp.org but it looks semi-retired. I've been using Ubuntu's pages.
13:29
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I'm not interested about clients with < 64Mb ram, as those will be dead slow anyway. But I think that 64Mb clients do need swap, or random processes are killed when firefox starts using x ram... I don't have hard proof though.
13:30
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yeah, that'll definitely happen.
13:30
<thunsucker>
the_fronny: this link will be your friend https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
13:30
<lsenft>
thunsucker: I installed sunbird, ran apt-get update in the chroot and rebuilt the image.
13:30
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I think it's better to have them slow down a little, rather than for random processes to be killed
13:30
<thunsucker>
lsenft: did you run apt-get dist-upgrade ?
13:30
<vagrantc>
alkisg: agreed.
13:30
<lsenft>
thunsucker: No I did not run dist-upgrade
13:31
<vagrantc>
alkisg: speaking of which, we forgot to up the default size in nbdswapd
13:31
<thunsucker>
lsenft: might be part of your problem, would hurt to update and then dist-upgrade it
13:31
lsenft: then of coruse have to do kernel and image update
13:31
<lsenft>
Does that need to be done inside and outside of the chroot?
13:32
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ok, so can I do both? i.e. enable nbd_swap by default for clients with < 80 (?) ram, and also up the size to 64m?
13:32
<vagrantc>
though originally, had this crazy idea to have multiple nbd swap instances, so kept the size small.
13:32
<the_fronny>
thunsucker: Been there. Using the atom/ion page. Thanks again.
13:32
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ...and only if no local swap partition if found :D
13:32
<vagrantc>
alkisg: using swapd or some such, you can dynamically allocate more swap.
13:33
<lsenft>
thunsucker: So I still don't get whether or not the multiple instances of nbd are a problem, which I read on a forum post.
13:33
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't think I'm able to do dynamic swapping, I'm able to test though :D
13:33
<thunsucker>
lsenft: no shouldn't be an issue
13:34
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's been on my todo list since ... 2006 at least. :)
13:34
<lsenft>
thunsucker: do I have to do something special to update the kernel for the chroot?
13:34
<thunsucker>
lsenft: check out the updating chroot section here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
13:34
<lsenft>
thunsucker: Thanks ;)
13:39the_fronny has quit IRC
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14:20
<Gadi>
vagrantc: ping
14:22
<vagrantc>
Gadi: pongitty
14:23
<Gadi>
hey, you were the last one before me to muck with the ltsp-update-sshkeys code, right?
14:23
I have a question of nuance
14:23
:)
14:23
<vagrantc>
ok
14:23
<Gadi>
I am trying to recall if the old code made a key for the hostname "server"
14:24
<vagrantc>
it did, yes.
14:24
<Gadi>
as in the hostname that is written to the client's /etc/hosts on boot
14:24
ah, ok
14:24
<vagrantc>
yes.
14:24
<Gadi>
I think I may have killed that
14:24
<vagrantc>
killer!
14:24
<Gadi>
and need to add that back in
14:24alexqwesa_ has joined #ltsp
14:24
<vagrantc>
please do :)
14:24
<Gadi>
hmm...
14:24
bec I changed to using ssh-keyscan
14:25
to get all the keys
14:25
<vagrantc>
even the server's keys?
14:25
<Gadi>
so, I will have to do some sed work
14:25
yeah
14:25
<vagrantc>
it still supports /etc/ltsp/ssh_known_hosts.*, right?
14:25
<Gadi>
definitely
14:25
I extended it
14:26
such that when you call "ltsp-update-sshkeys [host1] [host2] ..." it generates a /etc/ltsp/ssh_known_hosts.auto
14:26
with those extra hosts' keys
14:27
if you call it with the "-u" flag, it updates the chroot at the same time
14:27
with server's keys plus the other host keys
14:27
if you specify an export file with -e, it writes to that
14:28
this way, if someone wants to point to additional app servers, they need only run: ltsp-update-sshkeys -u [appsrv1] [appsrv2] ...
14:28the_fronny has joined #ltsp
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14:28
<vagrantc>
Gadi: and it'll keep all those servers available?
14:29
er...
14:29
it'll update the servers already defined?
14:29
<Gadi>
right
14:29* vagrantc still prefers the old fashioned way :)
14:30
<vagrantc>
imagine that
14:30
<Gadi>
well, there was no old fashioned way for someone to easily handle keys
14:30
from other servers
14:31
<vagrantc>
"ltsp-update-sshkeys --export" and copy it over to the server ... or know what you're actually doing and do so manually.
14:31
<Gadi>
for that to work, you need ltsp-server installed on the app server
14:31
which you prolly dont have
14:31
<vagrantc>
sure enough
14:32alexqwesa_ has joined #ltsp
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14:33
<the_fronny>
All: I've done a reinstall of ltsp-server-standalone on ubuntu karmic, then ltsp-build-client, changed the IPs in dhcpd.conf, then ltsp-update-sshkeys, then ltsp-update-image and a reboot.
14:34johnny has joined #ltsp
14:34
<the_fronny>
I'm still getting the refusal from NBD-server
14:35
refusal to connect (swap, isn't it?)
14:35
<alkisg>
No, nbd server is your root server (=the virtual disk, the chroot)
14:35
<the_fronny>
OK.
14:35
<mordocai>
I know ubuntu comes with a firewall, but is it on by default? I had to disable iptables on fedora(for the time being, i'll fix the rules later)
14:36
<alkisg>
the_fronny: sudo netstat -nap|grep 2000
14:37
<the_fronny>
alksig: Nothing. Do I have to create something in /etc/services? I'll look there now.
14:38
<alkisg>
the_fronny: grep nbd /etc/inetd.conf
14:39
<the_fronny>
alksig: There's some garbage from my earlier attempts. Let me clean that up and try again.
14:42
alksig: I have nbdswapd assigned to ports 9572 and 9210. Is there a preferred port, or just kill one of 'em?
14:43
<Gadi>
vagrantc: fixed
14:43
<the_fronny>
There's also this: 2000 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
14:45
<Gadi>
the_fronny: have you been restarting the inetd service?
14:46
<the_fronny>
Gadi: Yes, xinetd, installed by the ltsp-server package
14:46
<Gadi>
err... no...
14:47
you have xinetd installed?
14:47
<the_fronny>
Yes
14:47
<Gadi>
do: dpkg -l|grep inetd
14:48
(this is ubuntu?)
14:48
<the_fronny>
ii xinetd 1:2.3.14-7ubuntu2 replacement for inetd wit...
14:48
Yes, karmic
14:48
<Gadi>
well, on ubuntu, the default is openbsd-inetd
14:48
not xinetd
14:48
you can edit /etc/inetd.conf till ur blue in the face, and xinetd won't read it
14:48
:)
14:49
xinetd works off of /etc/xinetd.d/
14:49
which has a file for each service
14:49
<the_fronny>
I'd be happy to uninstall xinetd and standalone, and re-install standalone, just to see what happens.
14:49
<Gadi>
you may want to uninstall xinetd and install openbsd-inetd
14:50
<the_fronny>
Sure, why not, at this point :)
14:50* Gadi is not sure why xinetd got pulled in there
14:51
<knipwim>
vagrantc: i made some changes to ltsp-info in my dev branch
14:51
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wimmuskee/ltsp/ltsp-gentoo-dev/revision/2
14:51
<Gadi>
hehe - don't get frustrated. its not all voodoo and whichcraft
14:51
:)
14:51
but you dont need to do everything all over
14:51
<knipwim>
vagrantc: is it ok if i push it to the main branch?
14:52
<Gadi>
the_fronny: you probably installed some other package that pulled in xinetd (like vmware or something)
14:53
<vagrantc>
knipwim: you removed support for /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/
14:53
knipwim: don't do that.
14:53
<knipwim>
vagrantc: check
14:53
was fro my own testing
14:53
<vagrantc>
knipwim: why do you only have 2 revisions?
14:53
knipwim: that's not going to be mergeable into the main trunk
14:54
<knipwim>
i know
14:54
<the_fronny>
Gadi: That did it!
14:54
<knipwim>
i keep a release branch, which is always up-to-date with the main one
14:54
<Gadi>
the_fronny: excellent! black magic at work
14:54
:)
14:54
<vagrantc>
knipwim: why'd you remove Debian_server_info ?
14:54
<Gadi>
the_fronny: be careful of installing any package that wants to remove openbsd-inetd
14:55
it is easy to just click ok withoutrealizing it
14:55
<the_fronny>
I'm feeling pretty cocky right now. Might just re-do my first steps to see just what pulled in xinetd. Maybe it was me, or someone exactlu like me. LOL!
14:55
<knipwim>
vagrantc: thinking the lsb_release -all call is generic between distros
14:55
<vagrantc>
knipwim: think again
14:55
<knipwim>
at least between gentoo and debian :)
14:55
which are the only two who use the function
14:55
currently
14:56
<mordocai>
sbalneav: still around?
14:56
<knipwim>
thinking if there are no differences between the functions, why have two
14:56
<vagrantc>
knipwim: maybe name it lsb_server_info
14:56
<knipwim>
check
14:57
<vagrantc>
that way distros that expect to have lsb can call it
14:57
<sbalneav>
mordocai: yes
14:58
<mordocai>
sbalneav: Well, I figured out what the users issue is, though I have no idea how to fix it. Anytime ldap is enabled, both useradd and sabayon have a seg fault. When it's disabled, it works. I'm asking around #fedora for solutions.
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14:59
<sbalneav>
mordocai: how many users do you have?
14:59
in ldap
15:00
<mordocai>
sbalneav:Well, i don't know for sure because I don't run the ldap, but i'd say 1000+
15:01
sbalneav: We have a lot of students, and i'm not sure how often the clear out the old users.
15:02
<sbalneav>
where is it dying again?
15:02
paste the python error
15:02
<vagrantc>
knipwim: one other small detail... in find_lts_conf, you could just "echo found ..." in all cases, instead of having an else condition for verbose=false
15:02
knipwim: other than that, looks good.
15:04
<mordocai>
sbalnaev:Well, umm... I asked, and it appears we have 42000 users... and i'll get you that error, one second.
15:04
<knipwim>
vagrantc: will do, thanks for the feedback
15:07
<mordocai>
sbalnaev: Well, the error is simply a segmentation fault. Did you want an strace?
15:07
<the_fronny>
Gadi, et al: Thanks everyone!
15:08
<vagrantc>
stgraber: looks like you included ltsp-info ... but it's still a no-op for ubuntu :)
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15:12
<reynolds>
alkisg: do you have time? if not I'll touch base with you next week.
15:13
<alkisg>
reynolds: ah, for italc? Sure, I got some time...
15:13
<reynolds>
Sweet: here is my my log http://pastebin.com/d283c1708
15:13
<alkisg>
reynolds: so you've rebooted both server + clients, and you have key problems? What's the error message?
15:14
<mordocai>
sbalneav: Okay, well I don't really require users as long as I can throw myself in a group that isn't limited. I have a different issue that is a problem though. When I edit a profile and make changes, they show up in edit changes. However, when I hit save they dissapear from this view(i could see that being a feature, though) and then when I close and reopen the profile, the changes are not saved.
15:14
<reynolds>
I have rebooted, reinstalled and am getting service not started or keys are not setup.
15:15
<alkisg>
reynolds: reinstalled italc? do reboot the server after the installation... or at least logoff + logon as the "admin" user
15:15
reynolds: also, the "teacher" should be in the admin group
15:15
<reynolds>
ok
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15:20
<mordocai>
sbalnaev: In case you want/need it, here is the terminal output during the above situation: http://pastebin.org/94213
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15:21
<reynolds>
alkisg: that worked..... should have thought of it myself. Thanks again..
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15:37
<sbalneav>
mordocai: ** (sabayon-apply:14919): WARNING **: Owner of /tmp/orbit-sabayon is not the current user
15:37
you need to clean out our /tmp dir from whatever your previous install of sabayon was.
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15:52
<mordocai>
well... i did that, and that error went away. the changes still aren't saving, however. http://pastebin.org/94229
15:52
sbalneav: sorry, the above was to you
15:54
<sbalneav>
do you have an /etc/sabayon dir with the profiles/ dir, the zipfiles in that dir, and a users.xml file?
15:55
<mordocai>
sbalneav: Ah, looks like another issue with having set my prefix to /usr. They are all in /usr/etc
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15:58
<sbalneav>
I told you, ./configure --prefix=/
15:59
then you'll also have to update the xinit script
15:59
since it's not looking in thre right area then.
15:59
<mordocai>
sbalneav: yeah, I followed the e-mail which had sent me before...
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16:03
<mordocai>
okay, prefix=/ gives the same error that not including the command at all does. No module named sabayon
16:04
sbalnaev: Sorry, that was to you again.
16:06
<sbalneav>
hold on, one sec
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16:34
<sbalneav>
mordocai: try ./configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc
16:34
Heading home for the day, back on later.
16:35
<mordocai>
okay
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20:39
<khris4>
hello
20:40
is anyone here?
20:42
<vagrantc>
!question
20:42
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "question" :: if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
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20:43
<khris4>
has anyone had a problem with rdp terminal within lstp
20:47
I use ubuntu 9.10 and remote terminal services and when I connect to windows 2003, rdp terminal on the thin client say connect reset by peer. I don't know what is causing this issue.
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20:56
<jammcq>
hey kids
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