IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 11 September 2010   (all times are UTC)

00:37alkisg has joined #ltsp
01:11cyberorg has joined #ltsp
01:29ldv has joined #ltsp
02:21ldv has quit IRC
02:21mikkel has joined #ltsp
02:33alkisg has quit IRC
02:34bobby_C has joined #ltsp
02:41ldv has joined #ltsp
02:48ldv has quit IRC
02:52Kicer86 has joined #ltsp
02:53ldv has joined #ltsp
03:10otavio has quit IRC
03:20ldv has quit IRC
03:37MorningSon has quit IRC
03:45ldv has joined #ltsp
03:56vmlintu has joined #ltsp
04:03ldv has quit IRC
04:27alkisg has joined #ltsp
04:41markit has joined #ltsp
04:42
<markit>
hi alkisg :) I'm at school now, applied the patch you pointed me to, and boot to ldm rate is not nearly 100% (no nbd-proxy)! But I've a new problem now
04:42
from ldm, I can't authenticate anymore :(
04:43
is something I've missed once disabled the proxy following the bug-message steps?
04:43
<alkisg>
hi markit, i can't help now, if you're around in a couple of hours...
04:43
Or ask in the channel and see if anyone else is available
04:44
<markit>
alkisg: no problem, thanks :)
04:44
I've the feeling that I've to regenerate the keys
04:45
maybe now does not connect to ip of the proxy, so... but just a guess
04:45
let me try
04:48pths has quit IRC
04:49pths has joined #ltsp
04:52pths has joined #ltsp
04:52
<markit>
nothing, also can't understand if I have to specify the ip of the server, since has 2 nicks and don't know
04:52
ok, in any case better update image :)
04:56
I've gone in textual login console on the client, fired up wireshark on the server, and I see NO TRAFFIC when I try to login
04:56
seems it's trying to authenticate locally
04:56
anyone has an idea about this problem?
04:57pths has quit IRC
04:58pths has joined #ltsp
05:04pths has quit IRC
05:05pths has joined #ltsp
05:10markit has quit IRC
05:14pths has quit IRC
05:15pths has joined #ltsp
05:21pths has quit IRC
05:22pths has joined #ltsp
05:25rwmarch has joined #ltsp
05:27pths has quit IRC
05:28pths has joined #ltsp
05:31alkisg has quit IRC
05:38pths has quit IRC
05:38
<rwmarch>
Installed Ubuntu 10.4 LTS with LTSP and the dual NIC option from the alternate CD. Login OK at the terminal if the server has access to the Internet. If Internet connection goes down, then login at the LTSP terminal fails and you are brought back to the LDM login screen. Any suggestions on what is going wrong here and how to resolve?
05:39pths has joined #ltsp
05:44pths has quit IRC
05:45pths has joined #ltsp
05:54pths has quit IRC
05:54pmatulis has joined #ltsp
05:55pths has joined #ltsp
06:06
<rwmarch>
Message is "failed due to unknown user".
06:07pths has quit IRC
06:08pths has joined #ltsp
06:12pths has quit IRC
06:13pths has joined #ltsp
06:16ldv has joined #ltsp
06:21ldv has quit IRC
06:21pths has quit IRC
06:22pths has joined #ltsp
06:24pths has joined #ltsp
06:29pths has quit IRC
06:30pths has joined #ltsp
06:33pths has quit IRC
06:34pths has joined #ltsp
06:36pths has quit IRC
06:37pths has joined #ltsp
06:38pths has quit IRC
06:39pths has joined #ltsp
06:49pths has quit IRC
06:50pths has joined #ltsp
06:51pths has joined #ltsp
06:53pths has quit IRC
06:54pths has joined #ltsp
06:56pths has joined #ltsp
06:58pths has joined #ltsp
07:05bobby_C has quit IRC
07:11Appiah_ is now known as Appiah
07:14pths has quit IRC
07:15pths has joined #ltsp
07:24pths has quit IRC
07:48alkisg has joined #ltsp
07:54
<rwmarch>
08:13BWMerlin has quit IRC
08:14adrianorg has joined #ltsp
08:20otavio has joined #ltsp
08:36MorningSon has joined #ltsp
08:37
<alkisg>
rwmarch: if the client gets disconnected when your server gets disconnected from the internet, then your wiring is probably wrong
08:59ldv has joined #ltsp
09:02
<ldv>
Всем привет! Из России кто есть?
09:07
<alkisg>
Δεν έχω ακούσει κανένα Ρώσο εδώ μέσα...
09:12
<ldv>
смерть евреям!!!
09:18jhutchins_lt has joined #ltsp
09:47ldv has quit IRC
09:53mikkel has quit IRC
09:53jhutchins has joined #ltsp
10:12Mobe has joined #ltsp
10:18jammcq has joined #ltsp
10:18
<jammcq>
good morning friends
10:18alkisg has quit IRC
10:34alkisg has joined #ltsp
10:41
<rwmarch>
Yes, that is what I am thinking. I believe that the correct arrangement in line with the default setup from the altn CD is NIC1 to the router facing the Internet and NIC2 wired to the thin client. This is the arrangement on my system. Is this correct?
10:52
10:53Kicer86 has quit IRC
10:55mikkel has joined #ltsp
10:55jhutchins has quit IRC
10:56jhutchins has joined #ltsp
11:02
<rwmarch>
To be precise, loss of Internet does not disconnect the client, however, without Internet available, login attempt fails (cannot connect to server error).
11:03
Could this be a dhcp.conf issue?
11:03
<alkisg>
rwmarch: so, if a client is logged on, and you disconnect the internet, can the client still work?
11:05
<rwmarch>
Yes, the client still functions normally.
11:05
<alkisg>
Can you try running: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image
11:05
?
11:05
<rwmarch>
Will do.
11:13
sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image completed without error.
11:14
Rebooted client.
11:16
Same behaviour. If Internet not available on the other interface, "can't find server" or something similar and returned to LDM screen.
11:21
BTW, when Internet available, the client has normal Internet access.
11:27jhutchins_lt has quit IRC
11:30
<alkisg>
rwmarch: sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
11:30
There, paste the following:
11:30
[Default]
11:30
SCREEN_02=shell
11:30
SCREEN_07=ldm
11:30
Save, reboot client
11:30
When the client boots, press alt+ctrl+f2
11:30
...and give this command: ssh user@server
11:31
Replace "user" with an existing user, and leave "server" exactly as it is
11:31
Paste here whatever messages you see there.
11:33
<rwmarch>
will do.
11:35
BTW, is it possible that IP forwarding got turned off in the server? Could this cause the issue?
11:35
If so, how do I check the IP forwarding is in effect?
11:36
<alkisg>
It should work even without ip forwarding
11:36
But, if you have broken forwarding, then *enabling* it could cause problems
11:37
You don't need ip forwarding unless you use localapps
11:37
<rwmarch>
No localapps.
11:37
<alkisg>
OK, then disable forwarding to make sure it doesn't cause problems
11:38
<jammcq>
what IP address does 'server' resolve to?
11:38
<rwmarch>
I thought that I recalled that the Altn CD install enabled it. Guess I am wrong.
11:38
Server is 192.168.1.254
11:39
<jammcq>
are you sure the client knows that?
11:39
<alkisg>
jammcq: we'll see with the ssh user@server command.... :)
11:39
<rwmarch>
I will get that result.
11:39
<jammcq>
the ssh command doesn't spit out the IP address
11:40
but 'ping server' will
11:40
<alkisg>
rwmarch: disable the internet while running that command
11:40
<jammcq>
from theclient
11:40
<alkisg>
jammcq: sure, but he'll need lts.conf to get local terminal
11:40
<jammcq>
but he'll already be booted up before disconnecting the internet
11:40
so he'll already have lts.conf
11:41
<alkisg>
No lts.conf is needed to boot the clients...
11:41otavio has quit IRC
11:41otavio has joined #ltsp
11:41
<alkisg>
...and the alternate cd doesn't create one
11:47
<rwmarch>
From the client (no Internet) ssh known_user@server. Command stalls. No output. When I connect the Internet (other interface) I get a password prompt and successful login and server IP address is reported. Likewise, ping server finds 192.168.1.254
11:47
<jammcq>
on the client, do: cat /etc/resolv.conf
11:47
<alkisg>
and, cat /etc/hosts
11:49cyberorg has quit IRC
12:02
<jammcq>
did we lose rwmarch?
12:03
<alkisg>
Maybe - but previously he took some hours to answer, so he may just be busy :)
12:05
<rwmarch>
I was busy.
12:08
From cat /etc/resolv.conf: search "*"; nameserver 192.168.1.254 This from the client F2.
12:08
<jammcq>
looks good
12:09
does the server have 2 physical nics?
12:09
<alkisg>
And cat /etc/hosts?
12:09
Also paste your other ip of the server
12:12
<rwmarch>
From cat /etc/hosts: 127.0.0.1 localhost 127.0.0.2 ltsp22 192.168.1.254 server
12:14
192.168.1.254 is on eth1. eth0 is 192.168.0.100 served by dhcp running on the router.
12:15
<jammcq>
rwmarch: when you say "internet is down", are you pulling the cable out of eth0? or is eth0 still connected to the router?
12:17
<rwmarch>
Pulling the plug.
12:18
<jammcq>
what's the IP address of the client?
12:20
<rwmarch>
192.168.1.22
12:20
<jammcq>
ok, my hunch is that when the client ssh's to the server, the sshd on the server is trying to do a reverse lookup on the address. since the internet is down, it's not getting a response from the name server
12:20
so... try adding: "192.168.1.22 ltsp22"
12:21
to the serviers /etc/hosts file
12:21
and then test it
12:21
<rwmarch>
Will do. And instead of pulling the plug, ifdown eth0: ssh user@server now gives a password prompt.
12:22
<jammcq>
bringing down the interface will result in a much faster "no route to house" when sshd attempts the dns reverse lookup
12:22
leaving the interface up, it may take longer for sshd to time out
12:30
<rwmarch>
eth0 is up, cable unplugged, 192.168.1.22 ltsp22 is /etc/hosts: behaviour normal, login at client succeeds.
12:31
<jammcq>
so ti's working now?
12:31
s/ti/it/
12:33
<rwmarch>
Yes, it is working now!!!!
12:33
<jammcq>
awesome.
12:34
I usually run my own caching nameserver on the ltsp server
12:34
and I always like to add entries for ALL of my thin clients
12:34
over the years, various services have needed to do reverses on the clients connecting.
12:35
xdm and nfsd on some distros would fail to allow a connection if it couldn't do a reverse lookup
12:35
<rwmarch>
But, /etc/hosts entries is the 4.2 way of doing it. The alt CD did not add the ltsp list to /etc/hosts and the docs don't mention this, I think.
12:36
<jammcq>
probably right
12:36
<rwmarch>
So, I take it that a proper LTSP 5 installation should have the list in /etc/hosts?
12:37
<jammcq>
well... as long as you have a nameserver on the network, it should be ok. the sshd will make a request for a reverse, and get a reply back immediately
12:37
in your case, you weren't able to establish a connection to a name server
12:37
so it just hung there trying
12:38
<rwmarch>
OK. I understand now.
12:38
Thank you very much Mr MacQuillam for helping me again.
12:38
<jammcq>
personally, I like all of my nodes on my network to be defined in dns, so I'd either have a nameserver set up, or at the very least, a /etc/hosts file on the server that mentions all clients
12:38
rwmarch: no prob
12:39
<rwmarch>
Thank you alksig for your help. Much appreciated.
12:40
I think I like the nameserver approach as well. Will look in to that.
12:40
<jammcq>
just make sure you adjust the servers /etc/resolv.conf to point to the local nameserver
12:40
<rwmarch>
Roger that.
12:41
<alkisg> Thank you alksig for your help. Much appreciated.
12:42
<alkisg>
You're welcome - I just helped with lts.conf, jammcq did the real catch :)
12:42
(remember to remove SCREEN_02=shell)
12:42
<rwmarch>
But you were the first to get the ball rolling. Thanks.
12:43
SCREEN_02 Why? For security?
12:49
Must leave now.
12:59mistik1_ has joined #ltsp
12:59adrianorg has quit IRC
13:01
<alkisg>
rwmarch: yes, you don't want to give root access to the terminals to the users... for security
13:02pmatulis has quit IRC
13:02mistik1 has quit IRC
13:02mistik1_ is now known as mistik1
13:06
<AndyGraybeal_>
everytime i log out of a client and before it goes back to the LDM, it flashes this on the screen: (process 229):: Glib-WARNING **: getpwuid_r(): failed due to unknown userid (0)
13:06
is there something written about why this is happening?
13:08
<Appiah>
you got ldap?
13:08
<AndyGraybeal_>
no, no ldap; well i'm not sure but i don't htink so.
13:08
i didn't set ldap up.
13:08
<johnny>
it's a fat client thing probably
13:09
<Appiah>
well check the mailinglist archive im sure its been mentioned before
13:09
<AndyGraybeal_>
Appiah: i did, they said they couldn't remember what was up but they discussed it here :) maybe i'll look harder.
13:09
johnny: can you explain a little bit more? how would i sort it out?
13:10
<johnny>
why bother, doesi t hurt anything?
13:10
pretty sure i've seen it
13:10
check to make sure you're /etc/passwd has root
13:10
<AndyGraybeal_>
well it comes up.. and it looks not fun
13:10
<johnny>
in the client
13:10
<AndyGraybeal_>
ah okay
13:11
<johnny>
not saying i know how to fix it,
13:11
just making a suggesting
13:11
suggestion*
13:11
<AndyGraybeal_>
k cool thank you
13:11
<alkisg>
AndyGraybeal_: it's cause by pulseaudio, ignore it
13:11
*caused
13:11
<johnny>
ah
13:11
<Appiah>
ah
13:11
!
13:11
<AndyGraybeal_>
alkisg: no way to make it stop saying that everytime i log out?
13:11
<johnny>
hmm? alkisg suprised it can't be supressed
13:12
<alkisg>
I don't think anyone has looked into this...
13:12
It probably can be "solved" instead of "supressed"
13:12
<johnny>
well sure, if you want patch a patch in for lts :)
13:12
hah
13:13
<alkisg>
A patch that disables nbd-proxy for non-cluster installations would be nice :D
13:16
<johnny>
don't know enough about cluster
13:17* alkisg neither
13:27
<AndyGraybeal_>
:)
13:29
<johnny>
but , isn't there some check on the server side to find out of it's a cluster?
13:29
nbd-proxy is just a shell script right? put a check?
13:33
<alkisg>
It's a C program that runs on the client and acts as a proxy between nbd-client and nbdrootd
13:42
<johnny>
ah
13:42
must be a cluster var to look for ..
13:56bobby_C has joined #ltsp
13:57M4gic5t0rM has joined #ltsp
14:59vagrantc has joined #ltsp
15:39talntid has joined #ltsp
16:09mikkel has quit IRC
16:12markit has joined #ltsp
16:12
<markit>
hi, alkisg do you have some time to help me find why users can't authenticate anymore?
16:13
<alkisg>
Hi markit, sorry I'm in the middle of programming a python utility for mass users creation... but ask in the channel, others may help - and I may contribute a bit...
16:14
<markit>
don't worry, thanks a lot. But people don't know about the patch and removag of nbd-proxy I think
16:14
but I'll try anyway :)
16:14
I've applied this patch as suggested: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034
16:15
now ldm is reached by almost 100% pc 100% times, very good
16:15
but once I've tried to login, seems that the client is trying to login "locally"
16:15
I mean, with wireshark on the server I can't see traffic going on
16:16
(I've gone in the text console and tried to login, in the ldm graphically of course I see traffic when the page is re-send)
16:16
any idea/tip?
16:16
<vagrantc>
is it really GDM?
16:17
if GDM is installed, LDM will get disabled, and you won't have all the fatclient (or thin client, for that matter) support
16:18
<markit>
vagrantc: are you talking with me?
16:19
<vagrantc>
markit: yeah
16:19
:)
16:19
<markit>
maybe I used the wrong words... I thought ldm was the "graphical login screen" session
16:19
<vagrantc>
one of those "others may help" that alkisg was talkinga bout :)
16:19
<markit>
never mentioned gdm (what is it?)
16:20
<vagrantc>
markit: it is, but there are other graphical logins that might be installed, running, and disabling LDM :)
16:20
<markit>
vagrantc: yep, thoght you were answering someone's question asked before my entrance in the channel
16:20
vagrantc: are you suggesting me to change ldm for gdm? the problem is that the client is not sending username/password to teh server, afaiu
16:21
vagrantc: I reassume the situation for you
16:21
I had a functional ltsp installation
16:21
then I updated the "host" and chroot
16:21
<vagrantc>
markit: check if gdm is installed: ltsp-chroot dpkg -l gdm
16:21
<markit>
everything worked fine except a failure ratio of going to the ldm screen, very high
16:21
ok
16:22
oh, never heard about ltsp-chroot command!
16:22
<vagrantc>
would also be good to post your lts.conf (probably /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf)
16:22
to a pastebot
16:22
!pastebot
16:22
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "pastebot" :: The LTSP pastebot is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
16:22
<vagrantc>
ltsp-chroot is pretty new
16:23
<markit>
in fact ltsp-chroot is not found
16:24
vagrantc: well, sorry to interrupt you, but please realize that the authentication broke AFTER the applied patch
16:24
so config was ok until then
16:24
<vagrantc>
markit: sudo ltsp-chroot ...
16:24
<markit>
I'm #
16:24
<vagrantc>
what version of ubuntu?
16:24
<markit>
ltsp-build-client ltspfs ltspfsmounter ltsp-info ltsp-localapps ltsp-update-image ltsp-update-kernels ltsp-update-sshkeys
16:24
only commands available
16:25
kubuntu 10.04.1
16:25
<vagrantc>
weird.
16:25
<markit>
well, I'l chroot the old way :)
16:25
<vagrantc>
or dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l gdm
16:25
that can even be non-root
16:25
<markit>
un gdm
16:26
<vagrantc>
ok, so that's not your problem...
16:26
<markit>
vagrantc: did you had a look at the patch linked above?
16:26
<vagrantc>
oh wait ... could be kdm
16:26
<markit>
vagrantc: please, lissen to me
16:27
NO traffic is between client and server if I login
16:27
I reach ldm screen
16:27
<vagrantc>
and that's why i'm asking you if a local display manager is installed.
16:27
<markit>
then I switch to console login (textual)
16:27* vagrantc goes back to work
16:27
<markit>
issue username and password, and server receives NOTHING
16:28
vagrantc: the system worked without issues until the patch
16:28M4gic5t0rM has quit IRC
16:28
<markit>
so everything is in the right place
16:28
<vagrantc>
unapply the patch and see if it fixes it...
16:29
<markit>
vagrantc: good idea!
16:29
btw, kdm is not found also... strange
16:30
ii ldm
16:30
ok, sure
16:30
now let's revert the patch :)
16:31
vagrantc: do you have an idea about what if I run ltsp-update-sshkeys and I have 2 nics?
16:31
<vagrantc>
markit: it should add an entry for each nic
16:31
<markit>
what IP is used for create the keys? the one on teh client side (eth0) or the other (eth1)?
16:31
vagrantc: oh, ok, that's fine
16:39
vagrantc: ok, reverted the patch, but I'm confused
16:39rjt has joined #ltsp
16:39
<markit>
a) ldm login works fine now again
16:39
b) if at ldm press ctrl alt f1 to go in textual login
16:40
and enter username and password, I can see traffic to adn from the server
16:40
but can't authenticate
16:40
(everytime fails)
16:40
<alkisg>
markit: the nbd-proxy patch should be completely unrelated to the login problems
16:40
<markit>
is it normal?
16:40
<vagrantc>
markit: by default there's no users configured on the thin client itself, and root's password is disabled.
16:41
<markit>
vagrantc: oh, in console I'm authenticating locally, I see
16:41
<vagrantc>
markit: use SCREEN_07=ldm and SCREEN_06=shell and switch to ctrl-alt-f6 to get a shell
16:41
<markit>
so was ok not have traffic at school, wondering why I have now
16:41
<vagrantc>
in lts.conf
16:41
anyways, gotta run...
16:41* vagrantc waves
16:41
<markit>
vagrantc: thanks a lot!
16:41
<alkisg>
bye vagrantc
16:41* vagrantc will lurk on irc
16:42
<alkisg>
markit: so what do you want to do now? reapply the nbd-proxy patch and troubleshoot the authentication problem?
16:42
<markit>
" ctrl-alt-f6 to get a shell" for remote login you mean? (contrary to f1 for local?)
16:42
alkisg: I think is the only way to go
16:42
<alkisg>
markit: ok, reapply it and ping when you're ready
16:43
<markit>
alkisg: thanks a lot :)
16:57
<alkisg>
markit: ready?
16:57
(it's kinda late here...)
16:57
<markit>
patch applied, logins fine
16:57
so I'm puzzled
16:57
to be sincere, I did not tested here locally again
16:57
<alkisg>
Do you update the kernels after applying the patch?
16:57
<markit>
maybe is still a switch issue
16:57
sure, let me pastebing the sequence
16:57
<alkisg>
update-initramfs -u and ltsp-update-kernels?
16:57
OK
16:58
Login problems are usually because of ssh-keys, ip changes etc
16:58
<markit>
http://ltsp.pastebin.com/hXmSvznW
16:58
<alkisg>
nbd-proxy or not-proxy only makes a difference in the first boot steps, not later on...
16:59
<markit>
I did not changed the ip, and in any case, since desperate this morning, I re-build the keys
16:59
<alkisg>
No need for the lenghty ltsp-update-image
16:59
<markit>
alkisg: so I've a brand new bug that shows only in that damn classroom :(
17:00
I'll try to find a gbit switch here in my house and try inserting it between server and client
17:00
alkisg: go to sleep, I'll ask you tomorrow if I can reproduce the problem
17:01
I've one even bigger problem to solve also
17:01
<alkisg>
See the logs on the url of the topic,
17:01
<markit>
I tell you just for record
17:01
<alkisg>
one had login problems, i told him some troubleshooting steps
17:01
(like the SCREEN_06=shell that vagrantc told you)
17:01
<markit>
after a "long" time of inactivity, the black screen of the server never resumes back
17:01
I've tried screen_06
17:02
but as soon I press ctrl alt f6
17:02
I'm root@ltsp128!
17:02
<alkisg>
yup
17:02
<markit>
oh, I thought was a login to remote server instead
17:02
and to be root locally, you have to set a password for root in chroot
17:02
is no more valid?
17:02
<alkisg>
From there, you try "ssh user@server"
17:02
...and see what error messages you get
17:03
Change user to some existing user, leave server exactly as it is
17:03
E.g. when the ssh keys are not up to date, you get a warning there, so ldm can't handle it
17:03
<markit>
I see
17:06vagrantc has quit IRC
17:06
<alkisg>
(01:03:39 AM) markit: after a "long" time of inactivity, the black screen of the server never resumes back ==> maybe it goes into suspend and never resumes, try disabling suspend
17:07
<markit>
yes, can't find how... not in the bios
17:08
<alkisg>
No, in the gnome energy settings
17:08
<markit>
alkisg: I've kde I will dig
17:08
<alkisg>
ah right
17:08
<markit>
but googling around this morning I discovered that there is many people desperate about similar issue
17:09
that disable acpid or whatever they find that work
17:09
or modify xorg.conf
17:09
and the worse is that you have to wait 20 minutes each time to test
17:09
if the solution works...
17:10
btw, I've tried italc locally, and worked decently for only one client
17:10
so I will try in the class and cross my fingers for 2 years waiting for your english version of your program, lol
17:10
<alkisg>
In gnome you can change the settings of suspend to 1 minute to test faster
17:10
Or you can just invoke suspend from the menu
17:10
About italc, yup, that's what I proposed too.
17:11
<markit>
good idea, I hope that kde has similar options
17:11
alkisg: yes, sounds you are a good teacher not only at school (I'm sure you are), but in irc too
17:11
<alkisg>
Heh :D
17:11
Thanks
17:11
<markit>
btw, what do you teach at school?
17:12
<alkisg>
Informatics, from office to programming, to kids of ages 12-18
17:12
<markit>
oh, so it's a specific lesson... in italy they removed informatics from schools
17:13
<alkisg>
Ouch
17:13
<markit>
and told that "computers have to be used as a support mean for all the disciplines"
17:13
<alkisg>
How do the kids learn to use the computers then?
17:13
<markit>
I've no idea :)
17:13
probably they think will learn at home
17:13
<alkisg>
They're talking about doing that here too, but many people oppose that idea
17:13
How can you learn programming at home?
17:13
<markit>
yes, hope you win
17:14
<alkisg>
Programming teaches logic - no other subject teaches that to kids
17:14
<markit>
hehehe, you don't know italy
17:14
"programming" was never teached
17:14
just pressing keys in the M$monkey way
17:14
<alkisg>
Urm
17:14
<markit>
at least, except some schools that have informatics as discipline
17:14
they still study it, I guess
17:15
I'm installing ltsp for a 11-14 school
17:15
I've two children, at 6-10 school they just entered the "computer room"
17:15
turned on the few pc that was still able to run
17:15
and started using word or paint
17:15
even school books just tell about "word" and "paint"
17:16
nothing Free Software
17:16
<alkisg>
Do you have erm, I don't know the word, something like little private schools that help kids on specific subjects? E.g. they only teach them office, or math etc, to help them in school?
17:16
<markit>
no generic terms (like word processor, paint program)
17:16
so sad
17:16
not at all
17:17
<alkisg>
So, when kids come back from school, they don't go anywhere to be taught more things, right?
17:17
<markit>
not at this age for sure
17:17
right
17:17
they should do their homework
17:17
and then go to school the next morning
17:17
<alkisg>
Here we have 8:00 to 14:00 public school, and in the afternoon they all pay to go to those "private schools" so that they learn whatever they didn't learn at school
17:17
So they don't respect the public schools
17:18
...and the parents give a lot of money to those extra schools
17:18
<markit>
why don't respect?
17:18
in public school you teach the "really important things" I suppose (math, greek, history, philosophy...)
17:18
<alkisg>
E.g. they all go to learn english in private schools, so they don't bother listening to the english teacher at school
17:19
<markit>
oh!
17:19
<alkisg>
And when it's exam time, they learn the exam subjects from private schools again
17:19
<markit>
the world is upside down
17:19
<alkisg>
So at age 18, when they're about to give exams to get accepted to universities, they sleep at the public schools :D
17:19
<markit>
ok, let's abolish public schools then, move all the teachers to private school, and then make it become "public again", lol
17:20
<alkisg>
...and have about 5-6 hours in the afternoon of private lessons etc
17:20
...and parents spend hundends of euros on those
17:20
<markit>
when do they play or practice sports? at night?
17:21
<alkisg>
They have about 1 hour of gymnastics at school, and before turning 18 they sometimes play basket or football in the afternoons. But not so much as we used to play when we were kids, they don't have much free time.
17:21
It really sucks, but politicians are afraid to change that system
17:22
They'll lose votes of the private teachers :-/
17:22
<markit>
like in italy, don't know why but the intersts of FEW rich and priviledged persons prevails to the interest of the community
17:23
<alkisg>
In which city are you?
17:23
<markit>
is how things NEVER should work
17:23
I'm in a very small city, nothern italy, among mountains :)
17:39bobby_C has quit IRC
17:58otavio has quit IRC
18:01alkisg has quit IRC
18:33vagrantc has joined #ltsp
19:48Da-Geek has joined #ltsp
19:49ogra_cmpc has quit IRC
19:50
<Da-Geek>
Hi All
19:51* Da-Geek has just published ltsp-5.2.4 .rpm's for Fedora 13 to http://www.dageek.co.uk/ltsp/
19:52
<Da-Geek>
once they have been tested i will push them into the Official Fedora Repos
19:53
i have also put a screenshot of K12Linux Running on my Fedora 13 Laptop as well @ http://www.dageek.co.uk/ltsp/LTSP-Server-5.2.4-5.png
20:01ogra_cmpc has joined #ltsp
20:04markit has quit IRC
20:05rwmarch has quit IRC
20:08robert__ has joined #ltsp
20:08robert__ is now known as rwmarch
20:12Da-Geek has quit IRC
20:39
<vagrantc>
gah.
20:42ldv has joined #ltsp
21:10ldv has quit IRC
21:13vagrantc has quit IRC
21:31rwmarch_ has joined #ltsp
21:45irule has joined #ltsp
22:03
<rwmarch_>
Ubuntu Lucid and LTSP5: created a launcher icon for an app (with terminal) . Behaves as expected on the console - app launched OK. At the client, "There was an error creating the child process for this terminal".
22:05
Can anyone shed light on this? Effects an application launch or a simple shell command.
22:41jammcq has quit IRC
23:00M4gic5t0rM has joined #ltsp
23:00hiltunen_ has joined #ltsp
23:08moldy has joined #ltsp
23:16rjune has joined #ltsp
23:20Selveste1_ has joined #ltsp
23:20vmlintu has quit IRC
23:20dlezcano has quit IRC
23:20moldy_ has quit IRC
23:20Selveste1 has quit IRC
23:20hiltunen has quit IRC
23:20wwx has quit IRC
23:20map7 has quit IRC
23:20hawkI has quit IRC
23:34vmlintu has joined #ltsp
23:34wwx has joined #ltsp
23:34map7 has joined #ltsp
23:34dlezcano has joined #ltsp
23:34hawkI has joined #ltsp
23:48stgraber_ has joined #ltsp
23:49Lumiere_ has joined #ltsp
23:55hiltunen_ is now known as hiltunen
23:57sweetpi has joined #ltsp