IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 24 June 2015   (all times are UTC)

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04:17
<dunc_>
anyone here?
04:23
<work_alkisg>
!ask
04:23
<ltsp>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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07:49
<gdi2k>
Reposting: I am unable to make the LOCAL_APPS_EXTRAMOUNTS option in lts.conf work. I have created a directory on the server at /share to share some folders with all users. I added "LOCAL_APPS_EXTRAMOUNTS=/share" to lts.conf and rebooted the clients, but the share doesn't appear in the client's directory structure. We are using fat clients.
08:03
<muppis>
Does that directory exists in fats as well?
08:11
<gdi2k>
muppis, sorry, just saw your response. No, it only exists within the regular file system of the server, not inside the chroot
08:11
I was hoping not to have to place it inside chroot as I have the chroot on a space-constrained SSD
08:12
<alkisg>
gdi2k: just as a mount point, not the contents
08:12
Just a mkdir inside the chroot
08:14
<gdi2k>
ah, so the directory has to exist inside chroot, then it should work?
08:14
alkisg, ^
08:14
<alkisg>
Yes
08:14
<gdi2k>
alkisg, excellent, many thanks
08:14
will give it a go
08:14
<alkisg>
gdi2k: you can probably also do that as a test:
08:15
RCFILE_01="mkdir /share"
08:15
So that it's created dynamically at boot
08:15
So that you don't have to run ltsp-update-image....
08:15
<gdi2k>
alkisg, ah good idea, thank you
08:54
<vervelak>
!socat
08:54
<ltsp>
socat: One way to share a console with a remote person is: [local pc] forward port 5500; apt-get install socat; socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 [remote pc] apt-get install socat screen; socat SYSTEM:"sleep 1; exec screen -xRR ra",pty,stderr tcp:REMOTE-IP:5500 & screen -l -S ra
08:55
<vervelak>
Thanks alkisg :)
08:57
<alkisg>
:)
08:57
!vnc-dide
08:57
<ltsp>
vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
08:57
<alkisg>
!vnc
08:57
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'vnc', but I do know about these similar topics: 'x11vnc', 'kvm-vnc', 'vnc-plinet', 'vnc-alkisg', 'vnc-dide'
08:58
<alkisg>
vervelak: there's also this ^ if the other person has a gui
08:58
!x11vnc
08:58
<ltsp>
x11vnc: One way to share a graphical screen with a remote person is: [local pc] port forward 5500, run: vncviewer -listen [remote pc] sudo apt-get install x11vnc; x11vnc -noshm -connect <technician-ip>
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09:03
<help45>
hi guys !
09:03
anyone can help me with pinet ... ?
09:04
i've got a problem with the boot sequence on raspberry pi
09:04
the raspberry repeat tis message constantly:
09:05
begin: Retrying nfs mount... Begin: Running /scripts/nfs-premount ... done nfsmount: can't parse ip address ''
09:08
<alkisg>
help45: if you're using the raspi-ltsp version, try to come again when gbaman is online
09:10
<help45>
yes, is this version that i'm using
09:10
i will wait for gbman. thank's a lot !
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13:25
<alexfk>
does "XINITRC_PROMPT_ON_EXIT" work? i tried to set it without results
13:25
look at "/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc": ldm-dialog --question "Would you like to start this session?" 2>/dev/null || true
13:26
[ "$?" != 0 ] && BREAK_LOOP=1
13:27
i think $?=0 always because of "|| true" at the end
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14:46
<work_alkisg>
alexfk, file a bug report
14:46work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
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15:50
<alkisg>
vagrantc: Hi! We don't have an `ltsp-config nfs-home` command, do we? What do you put for /home in /etc/exports? Would the default be v3 or v4 there?
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16:09
<vagrantc>
alkisg: no default for nfs home in /etc/exports ... never used it
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18:23
<stgraber>
vagrantc: heya
18:24
so apparently since my last merge, LTSP in Ubuntu is now trying to bring the entirety of mate into main :)
18:24
not really ideal
18:24
18:12 < infinity> - gnome-session | x-session-manager | x-window-manager,
18:24
18:12 < infinity> + mate-desktop-environment | gnome-session | x-session-manager | x-window-manager,
18:24
we'd need to re-order this in Ubuntu to favor gnome-session over mate-desktop-environment
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18:54
<vagrantc>
stgraber: sure
18:55
stgraber: should be feasible with X-$VENDOR-Recommends/Depends
18:57
stgraber: what line would you like for ubuntu?
18:58
<stgraber>
vagrantc: gnome-session | mate-desktop-environment | x-session-manager | x-window-manager,
18:59
<vagrantc>
gnome-session? huh.
19:00
stgraber: for both ltsp-server-standalone and ldm-server ?
19:03* work_alkisg has been using vagrantc's packaging in Ubuntu for 3 years without getting Mate pulled
19:03work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
19:04
<vagrantc>
stgraber: my suggestion would be this: http://paste.debian.net/260433/
19:04
<stgraber>
seems fine to me
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19:05
<stgraber>
alkisg: yeah, nobody's getting it pulled on their system but the ordering makes it try to promote the entirety of mate to main
19:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc, stgraber, what about gnome-flashback?
19:05
<stgraber>
alkisg: so what's on that line doesn't really matter so long as the first entry is in main
19:05
<alkisg>
Shouldn't we propose flashback > mate > lxde > xfce > kde > unity > gnome3?
19:05
(the last 2 being 3d so only running over llvmpipe over the network)
19:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg: those should all be covered with: | x-session-manager | x-window-manager
19:06
<alkisg>
vagrantc: you prefer mate over flashback? why?
19:06
<vagrantc>
haven't seen gnome3 work at all in quite some time.
19:07
<alkisg>
It should work fine with llvmpipe... but slowly
19:07
<stgraber>
we could, though as you've said, you never got mate pulled in onto your systems, so what's on the line doesn't really matter, we just need to make sure it doesn't start with universe packages otherwise it causes that http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg and people start yelling at me :)
19:07
<alkisg>
Hmm, flashback's on universe too...
19:07
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it doesn't work at all. it simply pops up a message: "OH Noes, Something went wrong!" ... which is allegedly cute, but definitely not helpful and kind of annoying.
19:08
<alkisg>
vagrantc: did you try after the last unity patches I pushed?
19:08
<stgraber>
for the depends to be resolvable we need one non-virtual entry which is in main, gnome-session qualifies, then the two x-* will catch everything else so people can install whatever they want
19:08
<alkisg>
Unity wasn't working either, but I made it work about a couple of months ago
19:08
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i've admittedly never tried unity, i'm talking about gnome3
19:08
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the DESKTOP_SESSION etc might be needed in gnome3 as well
19:09
I.e. the patches might have fixed gnome3 too
19:09
<vagrantc>
alkisg: https://bugs.debian.org/776746
19:09
<alkisg>
vagrantc: llvmpipe does support compositing afaik
19:09
We're not using xvnc
19:09
I.e. that bug doesn't relate to ltsp
19:10
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's the same issue
19:10
<alkisg>
No, it isn't afaik
19:10
compositing != hw acceleration
19:10
You can have software compositing even over the network, that's how unity works in thin clients...
19:11
<vagrantc>
i'd be happy to be proved wrong and see gnome3 working again
19:11
<alkisg>
Did you try the latest ldm patches?
19:12
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/revision/1577 and r2646 from ltsp
19:12* vagrantc checks for updates
19:13
<vagrantc>
probably time i push new ldm/ltsp to debian...
19:13
though i am kind of swamped for the next couple weeks
19:13
<alkisg>
We can work over IRC at debcamp if you want
19:13
And iron out any Ubuntu issues left as well, with systemd in 15.10 etc
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19:14
<vagrantc>
that'd be good
19:15
which is getting to be not nearly as far off anymore...
19:15
<alkisg>
Yup, thanks stgraber for that :)
19:16* vagrantc meant timeframe till debcamp
19:16
<alkisg>
Haha, sorry I thought you meant the ubuntu diff
19:16* alkisg isn't sure about which DE we're proposing for LTSP though... mate? flashback? lxde?
19:17
<alkisg>
Technically I would vote for flashback since it's close to upstream gnome, but it's not actively maintained :-/
19:18
There are many more people working on mate..
19:18
<stgraber>
Edubuntu is sticking to flashback for now, though we're not releasing until April 2016, we may consider mate too at that point now that there is an Ubuntu flavour for it and we wouldn't be the ones having to maintain it for 5 years
19:19* alkisg has been following the edubuntu selection since Ubuntu 7.xx for the greek schools...
19:20* highvoltage thinks moving to mate might be better than moving to unity 8
19:20
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i don't think it's LTSP's place to propose a desktop environment
19:20
<alkisg>
highvoltage, I think for 16.04 we'd need to select between flashback, mate, lxde, xfce...
19:20
<stgraber>
highvoltage: right, but unity8 won't be a problem until 18.04 anyway
19:21
<vagrantc>
ideally, any desktop environment shoul work, some are more LTSP-freindly than others
19:21
<highvoltage>
lxde and xfce are also nice in that they would not only work well for thin clients, but also on fat clients with (relatively) low memory
19:21
<vagrantc>
ltsp is the technology by which a desktop is delivered...
19:22
<highvoltage>
(although it's really the web browsers that are problems these days (or at least, web pages that import huge amount of javascript that comsume several hundreds of megabytes of ram))
19:22
<alkisg>
vagrantc: only a few developers are using ltsp, so if e.g. people are using mate and can't get around e.g. the "my screen was locked and I can't unlock it" issue, then we should be telling them that we're shipping gconf settings for screen locking *only* for flashback...
19:23
<vagrantc>
we've desperately got to move away from LDM...
19:23
<alkisg>
We can't tell them "use whatever you want" when that DE is not usable at all because no ltsp developer is using it
19:23
<highvoltage>
alkisg: so basically, there should be at least one option that's known to work well
19:23
<alkisg>
Right
19:23
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: yes, that's the perspective i'm fine with
19:24
but in general, i strive to make several workable options.
19:24
i've mostly worked with mate and lxde at this point
19:25
mate still has the advantage of localdev's being integrated better
19:25
(which it inherrited from gnome2)
19:25
<alkisg>
Our gsettings don't work there though
19:26
<vagrantc>
it seems like there's a matrix of support features
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19:26
<alkisg>
The biggest problem I have currently is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring/+bug/1321922
19:27
It affects Ubuntu 14.04+, and it should be there on debian stable as well
19:27
That's one of the major things keeping us in 12.04
19:28
So, a user opens e.g. google-chrome, which tries to invoke gnome-keyring, and boom, gigabytes of sshfs traffic and disk full and 100% cpu
19:28
<vagrantc>
that's pretty ugly
19:28
<alkisg>
The workaround is to use nfs home... I've switched schools here to sshfs in 12.04, but I regretted it
19:35
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: yeah a wiki page with such a matrix would be nice
19:36* vagrantc is going to be doing a big real-world LTSP project soonish...
19:36
<vagrantc>
i've mostly been working with virtual machines for the last few years...
19:36
so i'll probably start running into all these real-world problems again
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19:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the change to the ldm clock format, while good, doesn't implement any backwards compatibility...
19:43
<alkisg>
vagrantc: backwards for LDM_12HOURCLOCK?
19:43
Was anyone actually using that? :)
19:44
(it was undocumented)
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19:44* vagrantc always thought it was a stupid configuration option, but someone *might* be using it
19:44
<alkisg>
vagrantc: google has 2 pages on it, and are all just plain code
19:45
Noone has ever talked about it in the web at least
19:45
<vagrantc>
could be lots of perfectly happy users :)
19:46
<alkisg>
Haha
19:47
<vagrantc>
i think there was an insistance at some point in time to only use true/false settings, and not confusing things like formatted strings.
19:48
there are some thngs for which that just becomes absurd, though.
19:51* alkisg prefers following already established examples
19:51
<alkisg>
E.g. many panels like gnome-panel use a format string for their dates
19:52
And it does make sense to use the current locale for the date (embedded in the format string) as the default
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19:54* vagrantc nods
19:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm not of the true/false only camp. :)
19:54
<alkisg>
:)
19:55
<vagrantc>
but i am of a backwards compatibilit camp. perhaps this is obscure enough that a note in the changelog will be sufficient, especially if it lands in ltsp-docs
19:56
if the new variable lands in ltsp-docs
19:56
<alkisg>
There was never any mention about it in ltsp-docs
19:56
Ah
19:56
<vagrantc>
which... hasn't really been updated for ages
19:56
<alkisg>
Yeah, that would be nice
19:56
Well, in ltsp6 we'll have the lts.conf manpage automatically generated from the source code :P
19:57
<vagrantc>
haven't made an upload since debian wheezy...
19:57
<alkisg>
doxygen-style...
19:57
<vagrantc>
and there will only be a single project?
19:57
<alkisg>
I'd prefer it... much simpler
19:57
<vagrantc>
i.e. now we have ltsp, ldm and ltspfs, at least...
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19:58
<alkisg>
Maybe at some point we can switch to sshfs instead of ltspfs
19:59* vagrantc wonders if we shouldn't just look into using existing authentication schemes instead of libpam-sshauth
19:59
<vagrantc>
and still figure out some way to pull off our magic tricks.
19:59
<alkisg>
I'd prefer that too
20:00
IMHO LTSP should be about configuring other projects so that they do what we want... not about developing our own solutions unless it's absolutely necessary
20:00
<vervelak>
!socat
20:00
<ltsp>
socat: One way to share a console with a remote person is: [local pc] forward port 5500; apt-get install socat; socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 [remote pc] apt-get install socat screen; socat SYSTEM:"sleep 1; exec screen -xRR ra",pty,stderr tcp:REMOTE-IP:5500 & screen -l -S ra
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20:46
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes, i think this will be a more sustainable approach
20:55* alkisg waves
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22:57
<mnevans>
Hello LTSP World. I've just updated from Debian/Wheezy to Jessie, and I've lost ability to login via thin clients: for a mate desktop, I get as far as the spinning wheel after giving logon credentials.
22:59
<vagrantc>
fat or thin clients?
22:59
<mnevans>
mnevan646G&7thHello vagrantc. Thin clients.
23:00
<vagrantc>
any useful information in the user's ~/.xsession-errors file?
23:00
processes running as the user on the server?
23:00
mnevans: did you upgrade both the server and the LTSP chroot?
23:01
<mnevans>
Thank you, yes. I did ltsp-chroot, then edited /etc/apt/sources.list, then exit; ltsp-chroot; apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade
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23:03
<mnevans>
I just tried with gnome
23:04
<vagrantc>
gnome is almost certainly not going to work on thin clients
23:04
<mnevans>
-flashback, and it seems to be working.
23:04
<vagrantc>
ah, ok.
23:05
<mnevans>
excetp I am getting an authentication request that won't quit. I think this is something else, maybe an x2goclient session... lemme see...
23:06
the authentication problem appears to be with org,freedesktop.packagekit.system-network-proxy-configure
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23:10
<mnevans>
646G&7th
23:10
646G&7th
23:10
su
23:10
Sorry please ignore
23:11
too many pots boiling
23:13
No, I am still having this 'authentication is required to set the networtk proxy used for downloading software' popup. The action is 'org.freedesktop.packagekit.system-network-proxy-configure'
23:13
vendor is ''the packagekit project'
23:16
OK - so with a mate login, I get the spinning circle. With a gnome-flashback login, I get the authentication request that won't quit. Could this be some bad interaction
23:17
of old /home/user/.gnome/* files or settings with the new jessie install?
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23:23
<vagrantc>
mnevans: it's plausible ... try with a freshly created user
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23:29
<vagrantc>
mnevans: well, good luck, need to head out
23:29* vagrantc waves
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23:30
<mnevans>
Vagrantc - thanks, the test user works okay - now how to fix the actual users? suggestions?
23:30
ah, crap, I'm on my own here... thanks for your help though!
23:34
...strangely - a few more reboots of the thin client seem to have fixed the problem...
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