IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 12 October 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:58
<warren>
Ryan52: you there?
00:58
<Ryan52>
ya
00:59
<warren>
Ryan52: you seem to understand gtk..
00:59
Ryan52: i'm trying to rearrange the location of stuff in the ldm gtkgreeter
00:59
<Ryan52>
okay
01:00
<warren>
Ryan52: http://people.redhat.com/wtogami/temp/K12linux-loginscreen-mockuprh.png
01:01
Ryan52: basically, move the hostname to top left, clock to top right, and put another png into the bottom right
01:03
<Ryan52>
okay
01:03
<warren>
is this difficult?
01:04
<Ryan52>
probably not.
01:04
<warren>
sadly I don't know gtk to do this quickly
01:04
could you possibly help me?
01:04
<Ryan52>
ya
01:04
<warren>
I'm incredibly time crunched.
01:04
hurray
01:06
our usability and art people recommended this layout change for ldm
01:06
I would ship immediately with ldm + patch
01:06
but we can propose moving the hostname and clock on the upstream list
01:06
plus an optional .png for the bottom right
01:06
like if (something.png exists) display it;
01:10* warren is under incredible stress
01:10
<Ryan52>
why?
01:10
<warren>
Ryan52: flying early tuesday morning for 2 weeks in Japan, doing LTSP demos there
01:11
Ryan52: trying to fix this ldm theme, a GNOME bug and a few more issues before leaving
01:11
plus I need to pack, prepare huge presentation slides, buy gifts for people there
01:11
and I'm barely recovered from surgery
01:13
Ryan52: I suppose you have little reason to help Fedora... but any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
01:15
Ryan52: is the ldm rearranging problem adequately described?
01:15
<Ryan52>
yes.
01:16
<warren>
might a patch against ldm-2.0.13 be possible by late Sunday?
01:16
<Ryan52>
ya.
01:17
<warren>
cool =)
01:17
<Ryan52>
can you give me the image that you want to put in the bottom corner so I have something to test with?
01:17
<warren>
sure, hold a sec
01:19
I have to modify it slightly, hold a sec
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01:25
<warren>
Ryan52: http://people.redhat.com/wtogami/temp/bottomright.png
01:25
Ryan52: it looks wrong in the web browser becuase it is white on transparent
01:27
<poklib>
does anybody facing this error "dhcpcd failed, kernel panic"
01:28
i assume this is onboard nic problem ..is there any solution for this?
01:28
<Ryan52>
warren: okay, thanks.
01:28
<warren>
Ryan52: don't add any padding on the bottom or right edges, rather the artwork maker should adjust their artwork pixels however they want it to line up.
01:28
Ryan52: (if that makes sense)
01:28
<Ryan52>
yup
01:29
<warren>
thus my image might look "wrong"
01:30
<johnny>
warren, what gtk engine do you use ?
01:30
in fedora
01:30
<warren>
johnny: uh... I dunno
01:30
johnny: whatever is default upstream GNOME
01:30
<johnny>
hmm.. i had some problems with that.. but maybe it was some other packaging thing
01:30
i think i didn't have a default gtk engine
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01:54
<poklib>
when i use cisco 2950 my ltsp got worng with error dhcpcd failed
01:54
but when i use a hub ..everything work fine
01:54
is there ant config at cisco2950?
01:56
<johnny>
that sounds familiar
01:56
something about some setting .. i can't recall tho :(
01:57
<poklib>
however some nic can pass through cisco2950
01:58
<cyberorg>
dberkholz, we all use functions from /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common in our init script
02:01
<warren>
cyberorg: are you using Ubuntu's initramfs-tools?
02:01
<cyberorg>
warren, nope
02:02
<warren>
are you using their ltsp-setup initscripts?
02:03
pscheie_: just replied to your package review
02:03
pscheie_: I need a new revision mid-Sunday
02:04
pscheie_: trying to build the k12linux media late sunday
02:04
<cyberorg>
warren, we just source upstream /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common in our /etc/init.d/ltsp-client.init script
02:04
<warren>
ok
02:04
do you push ltsp-client.init to upstream?
02:05
Absolutely everything in my ltsp.src.rpm is pushed upstream into k12linux directories if nobody else uses it
02:05
others might not use it, but others might get ideas from it
02:05
and parts are pushed into *common files
02:08
<cyberorg>
warren, i dont have commit access, here is the script we use, it is modified ubuntu one
02:08
https://forgesvn1.novell.com/viewsvn/kiwi-ltsp/trunk/suse-ltsp-client/etc/init.d/ltsp-client.init?revision=337&view=markup
02:11
<warren>
OK...
02:12
You dno't have commit access because most of hte patches you propsed for upstream were rejected
02:12
as unsuitable
02:13
The people we have let onboard we do believe to have judgement to know if what they commit is properly designed and unlikely to break others.
02:13
<cyberorg>
warren, i am ok with it, i really dont want to maintain our stuff in two places, forgesvn is good enough, as most of what is in there is only a slight modifications required for suse
02:13
<warren>
and your own tree there further reinforces the idea that kiwi-ltsp is a fork
02:13
which is fine
02:14
if it does require only slight changes for suse, then talk to debian/ubuntu
02:14
that might make your maintenance easier if it is common between you
02:14
<cyberorg>
warren, it is there in /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common so there is not any extra maintenance involved
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03:57
<sakhi>
Hi, I've just installed Ubuntu 8.04 with ltsp, when I boot the client it gives me the following errors pxe-01: file not found and pxe-e3b: tftp error file not found and pxe-mof: exiting pxe rom any ideas on how I could solve this problem?
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04:00
<sakhi>
hi alkisg
04:00
<alkisg>
hi sakhi
04:00
<sakhi>
I've just installed Ubuntu 8.04 with ltsp, when I boot the client it gives me the following errors pxe-01: file not found and pxe-e3b: tftp error file not found and pxe-mof: exiting pxe rom any ideas on how I could solve this problem?
04:01
<alkisg>
Did you do ltsp-build-client?
04:01
<sakhi>
yep
04:02
<alkisg>
So, in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/ you have a file named pxelinux.0?
04:04
<sakhi>
I have /opt/ltsp/amd64
04:04
<alkisg>
OK, you have an amd64 server. Are your clients also amd64?
04:05
If they are i386, then you should do 'sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386'
04:06
<sakhi>
no, the clients are not, only the server it.
04:06
*is
04:07
<alkisg>
OK, there you have it. So "sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp/amd64" and then run ltsp-build-client --arch i386
04:13
<sakhi>
alkisg: do you perhaps know how big is the ltsp-build-client --arch is?
04:16
<alkisg>
My /opt/ltsp, containing only i386 installation + nbd image, is ~800Mb.
04:17
<sakhi>
ok, now I know why it's taking so long to build
04:20
<alkisg>
It downloads the packages from the internet... --keep-packages makes it faster next time
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04:36
<sakhi>
I think I must find ways of creating a repository for that package.
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04:40
<alkisg>
You mean caching? There's apt-cacher for that, but --keep-packages also works. Anyway, you aren't supposed to do this often... :)
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05:17
<Ryan52>
warren: okay, I think I have it done. just put a file called bottom_right.png in the ldm theme directory. if you think something should be tweaked let me know and I'll fix it. patch: http://bzr.ryan52.info/ltsp/ldm-rearrange-stuff.patch or bzr branch: http://bzr.ryan52.info/ltsp/ldm-rearrange-stuff/
05:17
<sakhi>
alkisg: wow that was long
05:17
the client is built
05:19
alkisg: now I have a file named pxelinux.0 in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/
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05:23
<alkisg>
sakhi, ok, what do the clients do now?
05:23
<sakhi>
alkisg: they are booting from the server.
05:24
<alkisg>
sakhi, ok then! :)
05:24
<sakhi>
alkisg: tell me, if I install the Edubunu add-on cd will that cause any problems?
05:25
<Ryan52>
warren: that reminds me, at the hackfest you were using something like gitk on the bzr repos, what was that?
05:25
<sakhi>
otherwise I'm happy with Ubuntu using ltsp. ;)
05:26
<alkisg>
sakhi, no, no problems, you may either add the add-on cd or just install the same applications with the package manager...
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06:40
<sakhi>
kbye
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08:15
<warren>
Ryan52: bzr viz
08:15
Ryan52: bzr-gtk package I think
08:17
<ogra>
or install olive
08:25
<stgraber>
ogra: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/ltsp/
08:25
ogra: one more :) (fixing nbd -persist)
08:30
<ogra>
stgraber, uploaded
08:31
<stgraber>
ogra: thanks
08:31* ogra fiddles trying to build libusb-1.0
08:34
<warren>
Ryan52: btw, does Debian have this problem? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=444552 ssh Xsession to GNOME has no ConsoleKit, it gets confused, and erroneously shows Shutdown, Hibernate and Reboot options in the logout screen.
08:34
Ryan52: and menus
08:35
Ryan52: sweet, your patch seems to be perfect.
08:35
Ryan52: thanks
08:35
<ogra>
warren, debian uses the same ssh client
08:35
(as ubuntu)
08:36
that one has native CK integration
08:36
<warren>
ogra: yes I know
08:36
ogra: using the openssh patch that upstream rejected
08:36
ogra: anyhow this exposed a GNOME bug
08:37
ogra: GNOME finally fixed that bug, but i'm trying to backport it
08:37
<ogra>
not sure upstream rejected that
08:37
afaik colin didnt find it worth for upstream
08:37
<warren>
yes it did
08:37
it was rejected for both technical and license reasons
08:37
<ogra>
hmm
08:38
<warren>
the license reasons can be fixed
08:38
(the new thing linking to openssh needs to be relicensed)
08:38
they were planning on doing so anyway
08:40
<ogra>
warren, oh, i see debian doesnt have that patch either
08:40
openssh (1:5.1p1-1ubuntu1) intrepid; urgency=low
08:40
* Resynchronise with Debian. Remaining changes:
08:40
- Add support for registering ConsoleKit sessions on login.
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08:40
<warren>
for good reason
08:41
you were a little reckless to go ahead with a patch that upstream openssh rejected on both technical and license grounds
08:41
<ogra>
well, colin is maintainer for both :)
08:41
and it was his decision to have it in ubuntu
08:41
(for more than ltsp)
08:42
in the end its him who has to carry the patch
08:42
but debian has the Xsession instegration that also covers startx afaik
08:44
warren, what i would find way more intresting to see would be proper dbus communication at some point
08:44
we dont have that yet
08:44
then CK wouldnt matter at all anymore
08:44
since it would just behave like in gdm
08:45
<warren>
oh
08:45
<ogra>
but dbus still isnt there, it would either need proper TCP protocol it doesnt have or we'd need to hack up ssh/ldm to use the x11 one thats there
08:46* ogra personally would prefer TCP through the existing ssh tunnel though
08:46
<ogra>
i might go for that now that i switched to only do upstream ltsp
08:46
since thats on my list since we started with v5
08:47
but we didnt ever have the client side dbus .... with the recent Xorg its there though ...
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08:48
<ogra>
that would open a lot of intresting new opportunities for ltspfs as well ... and easily finally get us ltspfs-hal :)
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08:55
<stgraber>
ogra: fixing KDE support too, which I know some people at Revolution Linux would really appreciate :) (most of our customers don't want to switch to gnome ...)
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08:55
<ogra>
stgraber, pfft, convince them :)
08:55
if KDE wants support *they* should write ltspfs-hal :)
08:57
<stgraber>
ogra: well, they'll need to switch to KDE4 anyway so maybe I can convince some to switch to gnome (as in both case they'll need training).
08:58* ogra was actually joking :)
08:59
<stgraber>
and KDE4 showed some problems when used on thin clients in our test lab, some kind of X video memory corruption or something similar. Basically all menus and windows appear as black then are refreshed with the right content (only happens the first time the window/menu is shown)
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09:00
<stgraber>
ogra: well, I'm preparing a test server that'll have both gnome and kde4 installed, I'm sure some customers will be "hmmm, gnome is looking good too and has complete support for local devices and is a lot faster than KDE4, why shouldn't we use that ?"
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09:00
<ogra>
is it faster ?
09:00* ogra hasnt tried kde4
09:01
<stgraber>
kde4 seems faster when used on a lappy but on the thin clients gnome feels a lot faster than kde
09:04
<ogra>
nice :)
09:04
<stgraber>
kde4 is certainly a good desktop manager, I just have some (big) doubts that it's production ready yet. (we can still wait though, the next update for our customers will be Jaunty)
09:09
<ogra>
well, but you wont get any upstream support anymore for 3.x
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09:28
<petre>
morning all
09:33
<stgraber>
ogra: well, they are currently on Hardy, their next scheduled upgrade is Jaunty so we/they'll have to make a choice by then :)
09:36
<ogra>
yeah
09:36
stgraber, btw, why didnt you push the -persist upstream ?
09:36
we're the only ones using nbd by default anyway
09:37
<stgraber>
ogra: mainly because we don't use upstream's init script at the moment and depending on how others are using nbd, using that change will kill their remote swap space :)
09:37
<ogra>
oh, thats only for swap ?
09:38
i thought you added it to ltsp_nbd
09:38
<stgraber>
in our case, the harddisk is always /dev/nbd0 as it's the first nbd device created (in the initrd) so I can kill it and reload so -persist works correctly
09:38
if you are using nfs (or anything else), /dev/nbd0 won't be the harddisk but the swap space and my patch would then kill the swap space and reload it
09:38
of course of the swap space is being used, a kernel panic is very likely
09:39
<ogra>
indeed
09:39
<stgraber>
I plan to get rid of our own initscripts (these in debian/) for Jaunty and I'll then find a way to push that fix upstream
09:40
(or have some kind of patch applied on the initscripts similar to what vagrantc does)
09:40
<ogra>
yeah, thats a bit weird, thats the reason i always kept ours ... but up to you how to handle that
09:43
yay
09:43* ogra has his fingerprint sensor working
09:43
<ogra>
finally
09:43
<stgraber>
having a patch system in place should actually help maintaining the package as I won't have to sync the initscript with upstream (and if we have a big change in the upstream branch, the package will just FTBFS forcing me to update the patch)
09:43
ogra: fprint ?
09:43
<ogra>
yeah, but the HW is unsupported by the packaged version
09:44
so i need to compile a completely new stack, starting from libusb
09:44
<laga_>
so much work for an useless piece of hardware? ;)
09:44
<stgraber>
ok, if you have some spare weekends, please make it work with gdm/gnome-screensave/gksudo :)
09:44
I currently can only use it with gdm and gnome-screensaver and both just hang waiting for the fingerprint (I can't type a password instead for example)
09:44
<laga_>
that should already be possible using PAM
09:45
<stgraber>
(and gksudo just stops working when fprint is enabled)
09:45
<ogra>
laga_, well, its not *that* useless on a tablet pc where you have no kbd in tablet mode to unlock the screensaver
09:45
yeah, its possible
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11:26
<warren>
petre: ping
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11:39
<petre>
warren, pong
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11:40
<warren>
petre: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=464430 please read the comments, this package remains the only blocker for the next k12linux spin
11:40
I'm trying to do the spin tomorrow
11:40
meanwhile I'm trying to fix the GNOME bug
11:41
actually, i'm trying to do the spin today
11:41
I might call it K12Linux Terminal Server Release Candidate 1
11:42
<petre>
ok, I'll try to address it today
11:44
btw, the spec file I used was one I got from eharrison and modified with his help
11:44
<warren>
yes, eharrison never did proper packaging =)
11:44
<petre>
so, no, I didn't start from a scratch spec
11:44
<warren>
install rpmdevtools and look at the spec templates
11:44
<petre>
yes, he mentioned that, that the fedora people usually hated his spec files ;-)
11:45
<warren>
He did 95% of the work but stopped there
11:45
If he got it into fedora years earlier, other people would have helped him
11:46
petre: I'll help you if I manage to fix the GNOME bug quickly
11:46
if you aren't mostly done by then I'll need to take over and just do it, because I really need to finish the media and test it tonight
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11:47
<petre>
I just got rpmdevtools installed, looking at the spec files now
11:47
<DawnLight>
hello. i've asked this question in etherboot. perhaps you could help...
11:47
i mean #etherboot
11:47
what does 'Permission denied' mean in this protocol?
11:48
hello. i am trying the command 'imgfetch tftp://192.168.1.2/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0' and it gives me 'Permission denied'. i'm not sure why. perhaps this isn't the correct uri? the ip address is correct and it does use tftp and pxelinux.0 is the name of the file i'm looking for and... i've got 'dhcp-boot=net:pxe,/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0' in my dnsmasq configuration. i think this is it...
11:52
using another tftp client i get the file ok...
11:54
<warren>
going home
11:54
brb
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13:15
<Ryan52>
warren: I have no clue if debian has that bug, and I have no clue how to figure out if debian has that bug :P
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13:31
<petre_>
warren, ping
13:39
<warren>
Ryan52: simply login to GNOME from ldm ssh
13:39
Ryan52: Logout and see if Shutdown, Reboot buttons are there
13:39
petre_: pong
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13:43
<petre>
brb
13:59
<Ryan52>
warren: it doesn't show the shutdown button. for me, I have to use gdm for it to show the shutdown button.
14:00
<petre>
warren, in the spec file, for things like BuildRequires, where I have nothing to add, should I just leave them blank or delete them?
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14:12
<warren>
Ryan52: ok, ogra mentioned that debian has some kind of consolekit from the Xsession, we don't here.
14:12
petre: delete
14:13
<petre>
warren, I'm not giving up, but looking at the clock and the progress I'm making, I don't know if I can have this done in time for you this afternoon.
14:21
warren, to use the macros for setting paths, do I do something like this:
14:22
%dir %{_sysconfdir}/skel
14:22
?
14:22
is that the correct syntax?
14:30
<warren>
yes
14:30
petre: just think how useful these skills will be
14:30
petre: for your future RPM packages that you maintain
14:30
=)
14:31
petre: in an unusual package like this where there is nothing to build, I typically include in the %build section
14:31
echo "nothing to build"
14:31
or something like that
14:33
<petre>
yes, the experience is valuable; and I'm getting there
14:33
I just don't want to mislead you on my progress, plus I've got a deadline, as I have guests coming for supper and need to vacuum the house & shower yet
14:35
should %prep & %setup be handled the same way as %build? i.e., echo "nothing to..."
14:43
warren, what is the URL tag for? What do I assign to it? The URL for the source files?
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14:44
<warren>
petre: you probably want %prep which contains a %setup line
14:44
which only unpacks Source0
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14:45
<warren>
petre: URL is the homepage of the project this package is from
14:45
petre: use http://k12linux.org (our project will be there soon)
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14:53
<petre>
warren, one does the value of BuildRoot matter as long as it works?
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14:53
<petre>
warren, BuildRoot is different in the spec file I got from Eric,
14:54
but the path for BuildRoot in the sample spec file doesn't seem to work
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14:55
<petre>
never mind, that's not it
14:59
warren, as mentioned, I gotta vacuum & shower; I'll try to get back to it in about an hour
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15:23
<warren>
petre: I seriously need a nap. i'll be back in a few hours.
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16:15
<jomo>
hello - new to this irc chating...
16:17
is anyone using k12 ltps ? just installed fedora 9 and will start installing 5.1.22 - have a school lab that wants to try it
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16:31
<jomo_>
quit
16:31
exit
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16:45
<ogra>
mmmm, olive is lovely
16:46
<stgraber>
ogra: hey, just so that you are aware. I found a critical bug in iTalc. The last patch I applied that makes iTalc work fine with LTSP also breaks the demo mode for standard setups ...
16:46
I'm working on a fix now.
16:47
<ogra>
oki
16:47
just ping if you have something ready
16:47
<stgraber>
(I asked on Planet for testing but got no answer or bug report ...)
16:48
<ogra>
though i might not upload anything tonight, finishing a johnnie walker with RichEd here ;)
16:48sepski has joined #ltsp
16:48
<petre>
jomo, if you're just starting out with ltsp, you might want to try k12ltsp-5el
16:48
<ogra>
and playing with olive ... its such a cool bzr UI .... last time i looked it was stll rather unusable
16:49
<stgraber>
well, I'll be out soon anyway and iTalc is quite slow at compiling. I hope to have a fix tomorrow afternoon (your time).
16:49
<petre>
it's ltsp 4.2, but it's solid and easy to install
16:49
<ogra>
and unsupported
16:49
and has security holes
16:49
<petre>
ltsp 5 on fedora 9 is still a work in progress
16:49
<ogra>
i heard its working pertty well
16:50bymep has joined #ltsp
16:50
<ogra>
in any case it doesnt have a 3 year old Xorg or kernel and gets security updates
16:50
and is actively maintained
16:50
<jomo>
ok - I'll look that up... is that still using Fedora ?
16:51
<ogra>
its being ported to fedora since 6 months, should be in a pertty usable condition in FC9
16:51sepski has quit IRC
16:52
<petre>
it's centos 5
16:52
which will be supported for some years yet
16:52
patch-wise, any way
16:53
also, client requirements of ltsp 4.2 are less than for ltsp 5
16:53
<johnny>
yeah hacks into petre's thin clients
16:54* johnny *
16:54
<petre>
johnny, it's a school lab
16:54
<ogra>
johnny, why that effor, just take screenshots and keylogs from the network traffic
16:55
<petre>
jomo, how old are the students?
16:56
<jomo>
this is an elementary school
16:57bymep has quit IRC
16:57
<petre>
jomo, right, so ignore johnny
16:57
<jomo>
so ages are around 10 to 12
16:57
<petre>
brb
16:57
<jomo>
k
16:59
<ogra>
oh my ...
16:59
yeah, ignore the actual active developers
16:59
<stgraber>
hmm, the more I look at ica the less I understand how it was designed ...
17:00
when I'm trying to get the IP of an incoming TCP connection I get 127.0.0.1 :)
17:00xijyca has joined #ltsp
17:00
<stgraber>
(making the client to connect to 127.0.0.1 for the demo, which for obvious reason can't work)
17:03
so that's 5th italc build with even more debuging info, let's hope I can understand where that 127.0.0.1 comes from ...
17:03
<petre>
ogra, I just meant that I don't think the security of the clients from 4.2 is an issue in an elementary classroom
17:04
<jomo>
no security issues... the lab would be on it's own internal segment....
17:04
<ogra>
well, 10 - 12 is the age where they start becoming script kiddies :)
17:05
<jomo>
yes - right now... all they do is hack the machines
17:05
<stgraber>
I started a Debian fork when I was 13 and did C when I was 11 (just for your information)
17:05
<jomo>
they walk in - download screen savers - find ways to be "smarter than...."
17:06Q-FUNK has quit IRC
17:06* ogra made his first hack attempts with 12 as well
17:07alkisg1 has joined #ltsp
17:09
<jomo>
so try to use the k12ltsp-5el - and not the 5.1.22 for fedora 9 ?
17:09alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
17:14
<petre>
jomo, have a look at it anyway
17:14
jomo, it all installs 'automatically'
17:14
good for folks new to ltsp
17:15
though ltsp 5 is better for the future
17:15
local apps, etc.
17:15
<ogra>
since three years
17:15
...
17:15xijyca has quit IRC
17:16
<alkisg>
ogra, have you had any success with greek ldm translation? :)
17:16
(just a reminder... :P)
17:16
<ogra>
i must admit i havent looked yet, i dont get why it wouldnt work since translations are applied automatically
17:17
<jomo>
well thank you for the information, I will look at it tomorrow-
17:17
<ogra>
i promise i'll do a ldm day next week, go thought the bugs and chek the translatio status before next release
17:17
<alkisg>
I think no one has translated ldm in Ubuntu, so there must be something wrong with gettext in clients...
17:17
<ogra>
rather with the locale settings
17:18gate_keeper_ has quit IRC
17:18
<alkisg>
but in shell I do get translated messages
17:18
<ogra>
there are a ton translations in the package we inherit from debian since two releases
17:18
<alkisg>
Anyway, it's way over my head, you have a look if you have time! :)
17:18
<ogra>
you could try to add a "export LANG=<put your lang here>" in the screen.d script
17:19
<alkisg>
No, LANG is OK
17:19
<ogra>
but by default that should be seeded by ltsp-build-client from the server locale already
17:19qetif has joined #ltsp
17:20
<ogra>
as i said, i'll check before RC comes out on thursday
17:20
<alkisg>
I'll test again tomorrow with the latest changes stgrabber uploaded
17:20
ogra, thanks!
17:20
<ogra>
stgraber didnt do any gettext related changes
17:21
it might be that launchpad strips them at build time, i need to check that, we probably need to pull a langpack in at install time
17:21
<stgraber>
launchpad does strip all .po at build time
17:21
they are then uploaded in the langpacks but I'm not sure how often that's done
17:22
<ogra>
i thought i had added the necessary bits to the package to avoid that
17:22
<jomo>
be right back
17:22
<stgraber>
a way of testing that is to rebuild the package yourself, it'll then include all the .po
17:22
<ogra>
there are some magic commands to keep them in the package
17:22
which would actually the way we should do it
17:22
<stgraber>
ogra: last filelist diff I did between my own ltsp packages and the ones in Ubuntu showed that all .po were stripped from the Ubuntu's one
17:22
<alkisg>
ogra, stgraber, I also didn't see ldm.mo in the clients, I had to put it there manually
17:22
<ogra>
oh, ok, thats a packaging error then
17:23
we should keep them in the package so we dont need to pull in langpacks
17:23
<alkisg>
But even so (ltsp-update-image), again ldm wasn't showing greek
17:24
<ogra>
stgraber, we should do the same for ltsp-client
17:24
(and -core)
17:24
<stgraber>
right
17:24
<alkisg>
I think ldm is an old version, e.g. in my laptop now I have 2:2.0.12-0ubuntu1
17:24
<ogra>
i have to ask pitti again what the magic words were
17:24
<alkisg>
no no, forget that
17:24
<stgraber>
so I can also implement my LDM_LOCALE thing parameter :)
17:25
(it tends to be useless if the locales aren't installed ...)
17:25qetif has quit IRC
17:25
<ogra>
well, we run locale-gen at client build time
17:25
but if the .mo's are missing that wont help indeed
17:25johnny has left #ltsp
17:27
<stgraber>
7th iTalc debug build in progress ... and I still have no clue what's going on. My functions are executed correctly, the logic is fine but the values aren't (especially one that I considered as being reliable, the socket remote IP ...)
17:29
<alkisg>
ogra, if I put ldm.mo and run "gettext -d ldm 'Username'" in the clients, I do see the greek translation, so locale's OK, but still ldm doesn't show Greek. I don't know what else could be wrong...
17:29
<ogra>
the .mo file isnt in the package
17:30
<alkisg>
I made it myself, so I put it there! :)
17:30
(in the chroot)
17:31
<ogra>
right
17:31
<alkisg>
anyway, thanks, if you have time take a look at it.
17:33
stgraber, ica installs in 5900, so if someone also enables remote desktop sharing in gnome there's port collision. Can't that port be changed by default?
17:35
(I'm not complaining, just trying to help)
17:37
<stgraber>
alkisg: you can change the port: ica -ivsport <port>
17:38
alkisg: I don't think there's any plan to change it by default though
17:38
<alkisg>
stgraber, yeah, I know, not for me, I just think it'll be easier for other users...
17:38
stgraber, can ica be also used by vnc viewers?
17:38
<stgraber>
well, other users should really not have two x11vnc running on the same computer. I'm not even sure what'll happen if both vino (x11vnc based) and ica (also x11vnc based) run on the same display
17:39
alkisg: you need the private key as the connection is encrypted but other than that, yes you should
17:39
it mainly depends if the client you are using can use ssl keys
17:39
<alkisg>
stgraber, with the default ltsp setup + edubuntu addon, you get both of them...
17:39
that's what most teacher have
17:40
<stgraber>
and that's build number 8 going to the builder ... (if I'm right, I'll really need to talk with Tobias as there's something completely wrong :))
17:40
alkisg: in a standard ltsp setup, ica won't use 5800
17:41
*5900
17:41
<jomo>
JOIN
17:41
<alkisg>
??? I do have a standard ltsp setup, and it uses 5900
17:41
<stgraber>
are you using ica-launcher to start it ?
17:41
<alkisg>
No, as a matter of fact I haven't had time to use it in intrepid
17:41
Just installed it, and ps aux|grep ica shows 5900
17:42
<stgraber>
ica-launcher is supposed to be in hardy, though it's been improved a lot in Intrepid
17:42
this one should give you an unique port in LTSP setups
17:42
(but the recommended setup is to have ica installed in the chroot)
17:42
<alkisg>
ica -noshm -isdport 5800 -ivsport 5900 is what I have with italc from the intrepid repositories
17:42
<stgraber>
and that's on a thin client ?
17:43
<alkisg>
No, on the server
17:43
<stgraber>
ok, on a thin client the ports will be different
17:43
<alkisg>
Ehm, I was talking about enabling gnome remote desktop on the server :)
17:43
Anyway, don't let me take your time!!! Thanks!
17:43
<stgraber>
10000+<last byte of IP> and 11000+<last byte of IP>
17:43johnny has joined #ltsp
17:44
<stgraber>
ok, so you want both ica and vino on the server console ?
17:44
that's indeed not possible, you should choose which one you want in this case
17:44johnny is now known as Guest30994
17:44
<alkisg>
Yes, but It's a normal intrepid installation, not a server one
17:45
OK, as I said it's not for me, I was thinking about the other teachers here. Me, I'll just use ica as a vnc server now that you told me how.
17:47
<jomo>
ok.... new-user question.... trying to verify my registration, NickServ keeps telling me to log in first.... how do I "log in"
17:48Guest30994 has left #ltsp
17:49johnny has joined #ltsp
17:49johnny is now known as Guest13600
17:50Guest13600 is now known as johnny
17:53jomo has quit IRC
17:56
<ogra>
stgraber, export NO_PKG_MANGLE=1 :)
17:56
in debian/rules
17:57
that should keep the .mo files in the package
18:00
<stgraber>
ok, I'm a bit busy with iTalc at the moment but I can do that tomorrow for ltsp and ldm, the only problem is that I can't check that it worked until the package is in the archives :(
18:01alkisg has left #ltsp
18:01
<stgraber>
ok, the export coming from cjwatson, we can consider it reliable enough to directly push it to the archives :)
18:01
whorst case it's the same as we currently have so ...
18:02
<ogra>
i can do that quickly for both packages
18:02
<stgraber>
that would be great
18:03
(8th build of iTalc in progress, let's hope it's the good one)
18:07
<ogra>
i think i'll do it for ldm only for now ... for ltsp-server it somewhat makes sense to use the langpack ...
18:07
not sure what to do about ltsp-client(-core) though, do we really need it ?
18:08
<stgraber>
I'm not even sure we use gettext outside ldm in the chroot
18:08
<warren>
damn
18:08
<ogra>
well, debian does
18:08
<warren>
there's a new bug in ldm-2.0.13
18:08
<ogra>
thats where the translations come from
18:08
warren, what is it ?
18:09
<warren>
focus is not on the text box automatically
18:09
the user has to click on it
18:09
<ogra>
meh
18:09
<warren>
Ryan52: ping
18:09
<ogra>
trivial fix though
18:09
<warren>
do you know how?
18:09
<Ryan52>
warren: pong
18:09
<ogra>
there is a grab_focus property for gtk widgets
18:09
we used to set that
18:09
<warren>
Ryan52: I just noticed that ldm-2.0.13 has a new problem, the login textbox no longer has focus by default, the user has to click on it
18:10* ogra wonders if warren secretly started using a WM for ldm :P
18:10
<warren>
I hope not
18:10
<ogra>
:)
18:10
<warren>
is anyone else using ldm-2.0.13 right now?
18:11kc8pxy has joined #ltsp
18:11
<ogra>
we have it in ubuntu, but i doubt many people have built clients with it yet
18:11
<stgraber>
I don't remember having to click on the field to login
18:11
<Ryan52>
kc8pxy: stalker!
18:11
<stgraber>
I can try that though as I'm connect using VNC to a thin client running it
18:12* ogra just updates his VM to a recent intrepid, but i fear that will take half the night
18:12
<ogra>
its quite outdated
18:13
<Ryan52>
warren: I'll fix it in a few minutes...
18:13
<warren>
Ryan52: could this be caused by your new patch?
18:13
<kc8pxy>
Ryan52: hehe
18:14
<stgraber>
warren: focus is set here
18:15
<kc8pxy>
do my client and server arch'
18:15
s need to match?
18:15
<ogra>
no, your server can be amd64
18:15
<kc8pxy>
cool
18:15
<ogra>
ues --arch i386 as option to ltsp-build-client
18:16
ltsp-build-client --extra-help gives you more possible options
18:17
<kc8pxy>
ok
18:18
Ryan52: looking to build a ltsp for the shop, for installs, disktest, and printme.. that's similar to what you guys do, yes?
18:19
<Ryan52>
kc8pxy: printme runs on the installed ubuntu system.
18:19
but otherwise, yes
18:19
<kc8pxy>
i have yet to get the keys thing down, and printme properly pre-seeded.
18:20
so i have been kludging an extras install, then reboot, so it will actually pop me up a firefox :)
18:22
<ogra>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins we have a kiosk plugin we use in ubuntu for that (see the bottom)
18:29
<stgraber>
ogra: hmm, I found the issue, now let's try to understand why it's happening :) Worst case I can just write my patch differently to workaround the bug.
18:30
(so I at least have a backup solution, which is always a good thing that close to a release :))
18:30
<ogra>
yeah
18:30
and its not LTS :) you dont have to touch it over and over again
18:31* ogra really hates the new SRU policy for hardy
18:31
<warren>
why
18:31
<Ryan52>
warren: updated patch in the same place as before (bzr.ryan52.info/bzr/ltsp/ldm-rearrange-stuff.patch)
18:31
<warren>
The requested URL /bzr/ltsp/ldm-rearrange-stuff.patch was not found on this server.
18:32
<ogra>
warren, because i have tou regard all the patches all the time if i add some fix
18:32
<warren>
ogra: you mean you could sneak in other fixes before?
18:32
<Ryan52>
warren: http://bzr.ryan52.info/ltsp/ldm-rearrange-stuff.patch
18:32
<ogra>
warren, i sneak in fixes and patches all the time between freezes
18:33
<Ryan52>
I can't figure out why it worked right before. I guess it was just by luck...
18:34
<ogra>
the thing is that they are usually parts that would validate a new upstream if i pushed them upstream, but its a hell lot of paperwork and QA involved to get new upstreams in, so i stay with the patches which gets annoying over time
18:34
it just stacks up
18:35juanpaul has joined #ltsp
18:36
<ogra>
warren, the proper way would be to take a snapshot of upstream and only backport ubuntu fixes from the upstram branch then, thats something to do for next LTS so one can maintain a pseudo upstream branch for LTS releases ... normal releases simply dont get as much attention for updates since the maintainer is focused in the next release
18:37
thats just LTS specific ... and new with hardy
18:38otavio has joined #ltsp
18:38
<warren>
Ryan52: ok, due to my time crunch i will not attempt to argue hte merits of that patch on the list for about 3 weeks
18:39
Ryan52: I think the clock and hostname moving part makes it look better
18:39
Ryan52: if you want to suggest it on the list go ahead
18:40* ogra wont shuffle elemnts right before release
18:40
<Ryan52>
warren: ok, ya, I agree. I'll email the list sometime later today...
18:40
<ogra>
ubuntu is in UI freeze, debian is frozen as well
18:41
since a month or two
18:41
<warren>
if that's the case, then add the patch upstream after the freeze
18:42
but you're not pulling from it anyway right?
18:42
<ogra>
we just did
18:42
and i oppose a change that makes it look different from gdm 2.20
18:43
which the current look resembles
18:43
<warren>
doens't the new gdm not look like gdm 2.20 at all?
18:43
<ogra>
after freeze means not before november for ubuntu and probably january for debian, depending when they release
18:44
i have no clue how the new gdm looks like, got a url to a screenshot ?
18:44
it looked the same the last four years for me
18:44
with slightly different themes
18:44
i.e. wallapapers
18:44
<warren>
too busy
18:45
<ogra>
for ubuntu i want it onsistent with the default desktop
18:45
*consistent
18:45
and i guess vagrant prefers a consistent look for debian as well
18:46
no idea what gentoo uses
18:47
but if shuffling items is/becomes a requirement we should start thinking about a theme engine (as much as i hate that since it makes the code bloated and complicated)
18:52
<kc8pxy>
gentoo has no default dm, IIRC,(speaks as a gentoo user) it's all user config. i like the emergence gdm theme :)
18:52warren has quit IRC
18:53
<ogra>
kc8pxy, which gdm version does gentoo use is the question :)
18:54
as ldm tries to resemble gdm look and feel
18:54
<stgraber>
ogra: hmm, I just rewrote my entire patch, it's now a lot smaller and affecting only one component of iTalc. Let's hope it'll do the job. (Will only test it tomorrow, I'm out now)
18:55
<kc8pxy>
+
18:56
<ogra>
http://live.gnome.org/GDM/Screenshots urgh
18:56
thats horrible
18:57
<kc8pxy>
2.20.7 is the most current in portage for x86
18:58
<ogra>
ubuntu has 2.20.8 ... and debian something way older
18:59
ah, no, they have .7 as well
19:01
<kc8pxy>
unfortunately, the expectation of debian having older packages, is one of the key reasons i moved to gentoo.
19:01
then again, that was back in the days of potato
19:01
<ogra>
heh
19:02* ogra had the same issues but preferred to learn .deb packaging to have his own package instead :)
19:02
<kc8pxy>
i had potato on a 486 playing router/firewall :)
19:07C|cci0 has joined #ltsp
19:07warren has joined #ltsp
19:07
<C|cci0>
hi there
19:08
<warren>
petre: ok, gnome bug is fixed, your package is the only blocker, how go things?
19:08
petre: is the latest version of the HTML content at a URL? I could review the content
19:08
<C|cci0>
just a couple of question cause I had no luck finding info about... I'm using LTSP 5 on Ubuntu/Edubuntu
19:09
I've got 20 HP T5135 thin clients
19:09
using openchrome driver (I think cause of autodetect) when I launch some apps fullscreen clients crash
19:10
using Vesa they don't but this way I can't get Wide 1440x900 screen working...
19:10
I tried a lot of X_params... xramperc and so on... without luck...
19:11
I was thinking to disable DRI (if enabled by default) as told in a post somewhere on the internet, but... with ltsp5 how could I do that?
19:24
<warren>
petre: sorry, I'm just going ahead and making a package, i'm out of time
19:45C|cci0 has quit IRC
19:47GiantPickle has quit IRC
19:54
<warren>
petre: I'm spinning what I hope will be "Release Candidate 1"
19:55
<jammcq>
warren: hey, feeling better?
19:55
<warren>
jammcq: progressively
19:55
<jammcq>
well, that's to be expected. at least it's not progressively worse
19:56
<warren>
with the horribly painful cauterization of the main bleeding vessel on Thursday, I have been able to finally safely flush with lots of saline
19:56
Then I realized that my left sinus cavities were completely clogged for weeks and weird colored and smelling ooze was coming out slowly
19:56
so I busted it open with Vicks Sinex (that stuff is awesome, I learned about it in Germany)
19:57
and flooded it with lots of pressurized saline
19:57
Then a whole bunch of garbage came out
19:57
including lots of dead tissue
19:57
in pink sheets that looks exactly like pickled ginger that you might get at a sushi restaurant
19:58
I am thinking about blogging about the entire ordeal
19:58
but the descriptions are really gross
19:58
<jammcq>
yeah, i'm grossed out already
19:59
<warren>
but dude, my nose has NEVER drained so easily
19:59
<jammcq>
doesn't exactly make me want to go out and get sushi right now :)
19:59
<warren>
it has literally been almost competely blocked my entire life
19:59
<jammcq>
does that mean you'll be less susceptable to sinus infections?
19:59
<warren>
yes
19:59
<jammcq>
cool
19:59
I get one or two every year
19:59
<warren>
and after it fully heals, I wont be blowing my nose every 5 minutes
19:59
but dude
20:00
total expenses ... $15k
20:00
<jammcq>
paid by insurance?
20:00
<warren>
plus a month of being mostly useless and miserable
20:00
jammcq: the doctor's office is fighting with insurance now
20:00
not my problem yet
20:00
<jammcq>
heh
20:01
<warren>
even if I had to pay $15k out of pocket it would be totally worth it for my quality of life going forward
20:01
<jammcq>
sure
20:02
<warren>
I did lose 4x that much on the stock market in the last week
20:02
=)
20:02
<jammcq>
yeah, it's been pretty brutal
20:02
<warren>
I'm surprisingly not panicked about this.
20:04
jammcq: most of that was because I was gambling on energy stocks
20:04
lost all my gains in the last 2 years on energy gambling
20:30* warren testing new K12linux spin
20:41
<petre>
warren, that's fine, I was expecting it, frankly, since I've had guests for the past four hours
20:43
<warren>
petre: you already did most of the important work in creating the docs and screenshots
20:43
petre: I wouldn't have been able to do htat part
20:43
petre: btw, what is your role? you work at a school?
20:43
<petre>
several roles, actually
20:44
role 1: ltsp zealot & advocate to anyone who will listen
20:44
I've installed k12ltsp at a few schools and some small offices
20:44
that's all volunteer work
20:45
I also teach linux admin at the local technical college, just as an adjunct instructor
20:45
<warren>
oh
20:45
<petre>
it's fun and I like it, but it takes more time than I would think
20:45
<warren>
where do you live?
20:45
<petre>
Minneapolis
20:46
<warren>
ok cool
20:46
<petre>
my day job is as a linux admin of sorts for a company called VisionShare
20:46
we provide encrypted communication services across the internet between medical providers and medical payers, primarily Medicare
20:47
I've been a Unix admin/general Unix admin for about ten years, much of that spent pushing linux
20:50
<warren>
testing live image now
20:51
<petre>
I keep trying to figure out a way to make ltsp part of my job so I could devote more time to it but haven't managed to so far
20:51
warren, is this new spin a live image?
20:52
<warren>
yes
20:52
<petre>
i.e., meant to be run from usb/dvd
20:52
<warren>
petre: want to handle the announcement of this new live image if testing goes well?
20:52
petre: basically make it like my previous announcement
20:52
petre: to the appropriate lists
20:53
<petre>
sure; what's new that's worth mentioning?
20:53
<warren>
uh...
20:53
lots of bug fixes mainly
20:53
<petre>
the new login screen
20:53
<warren>
yes
20:53
petre: make sure to thank Maureen Duffy for the new artwork
20:53
<petre>
will do
20:54
<warren>
petre: and yourself for the new documentation
20:54
<petre>
such as it is,
20:54
<warren>
* Aug 24th, 2008: ltsp-5.1.22 released. This update introduces automatic NBI and ELF (Etherboot) client support, NBD root option, NBD swap by default actually works, and more. See the announcement for more details.
20:54
* Aug 10th, 2008: Fedora 9 Live LTSP Server Beta 1 is released. This is the quickest and easiest way to both demo and install Fedora LTSP5. Read the announcement for details.
20:54
looks like the optional NBD root (disabled by default), NBI and ELF (automatically handled)
20:55
<petre>
people like you contribute in bucketloads; my contribution is measured in teaspoons
20:55
<warren>
hey, if you can handle the announcement, that saves me time
20:55
especially since I'll be on a plane for 28 hours
20:55
Tuesday morning 6am
20:55
ugh...
20:55
<petre>
yes, but what a great adventure!
20:56
<warren>
perhaps begin writing up a draft announcement?
20:56
I'll be able to suggest things to add until tomorrow night
20:56
and the upload of the image should be ready tomorrow morning
20:58
petre: you can start with the format I used in the last announcement
20:59
<petre>
yes, I was just looking for that in my mail archives
20:59
<warren>
Peter, Minister of Propanda, K12Linux Project
21:01
<petre>
warren, heh, that's funnier than you'll ever know (maybe I'll tell you about it at BTS)
21:01
<warren>
oops
21:01
Propaganda
21:01
damn
21:01
the image is broken
21:01
I have to disable selinux on my laptop before creating it
21:02
here goes building the image again...
21:02
brb shower
21:24
this is going very slowly
21:24
I might fall asleep before testing it
21:24
oh well
21:24
good nigh
21:28
<petre>
warren, what will the URL for the image be?
21:28
<warren>
petre: like the old URL but "rc1" instead of beta2
21:28
er
21:28
beta1
21:28
<petre>
k
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21:33
<petre>
warren, any chance we could have the livecd-iso-to-disk script at the same URL as the image?
21:33
Would make it easier for people to not have to mount the image to get the script
21:33
although it should still be included in the image
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21:34
<warren>
petre: remind me in e-mail
21:34
ok, crashing
21:34
<petre>
ok
21:35
email to list or to you directly?
21:35
<warren>
list
21:35
<petre>
ok
21:53
warren, I've got an announcement about halfway banged out
21:53
I'll send you something tomorrow night
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23:27
<lutan>
hi, can you help me with soething please?
23:31
Im an engineering student, and i would like to do some traffic studies about in a ltsp server processes
23:31
do you know if the is any paper about it?
23:33
(about ltsp server processes)*
23:35
<johnny>
no
23:35
ltsp server processes are regular server processes
23:35
you can probably find that info
23:35
X, ssh
23:35
and then nfs or nbd (on ubuntu)
23:36
lutan, they are just glorified xterms with some glue to make sound and local devices work
23:37
so.. if you were to run an X session tunneld over ssh.. you would be able to estimate the traffic generally of ltsp
23:37
then you'd just need to run pulseaudio to forward the sound..
23:39
there's a bit more when it comes to running apps locally.. but the biggie is just tunneled X
23:39
err running devices locally..
23:39
obviously running apps locally will generate alot less traffic..
23:39
even though the apps would be stored remotely.. and accessed via a local sshfs mount
23:39
lutan, does that answer your question?
23:43
<lutan>
johnny, thats true but i would like to do those studies to see how the server run when the number of users grow
23:45
<johnny>
nobody has done any study.. but i'm sure folks with large installs can give you some evidence
23:45
but now is a bad time for that
23:45
come back during the workday of the USA and europe
23:45
<lutan>
and then get a conclution about how to dimension efficiently a ltsp server when you know the number of users who will run in the server
23:45
<johnny>
oh
23:45
that is already done somewhat
23:46
the ubuntu docs recommend a certain amount of ram
23:46
per client
23:46
but not traffic yet
23:46
i don't think
23:46
<lutan>
i have been googling and i found something about 50MB for user, that right no?
23:46
<johnny>
something like that
23:47
the official ltsp docs are finally coming together
23:47
bits and pieces from ubuntu handbook and other sources are being combined and worked on
23:47
hopefully we'll see their fruits soon
23:47
<lutan>
ohh thats really nice
23:47
<johnny>
i think you're looking at a relatively solved problem tho
23:47
prolly not worth doign any studies
23:48
then again
23:48
maybe i just don't have that kinda bent
23:48
come back during the times i mentioned
23:48
and other folks might have something to say
23:48
the people who actually deploy ltsp in bigger environnents will likely be around
23:49
as well as those who who are developing on it
23:49
<lutan>
thanks johnny, i will come back during those times
23:50
<johnny>
i'd suggest sometime around 1700 gmt maybe?
23:50
of course.. you can just idle here, and watch when the conversation picks up
23:50
leave your client on
23:51
lutan, my ltsp install is only 4 clients.. so you won't see any good numbers from me :)
23:51
<lutan>
hehehe
23:52
wich distro are you using?
23:52
<johnny>
ubuntu
23:52
but i do the ltsp devel for gentoo
23:52
kinda helped me learn how the pieces worked internally
23:54
<lutan>
nice, i would like to do that study because i really enjoy working for the community, and i want to learn all a can about ltsp
23:58
johnny, thanks a lot for the help, i will try to be here later
23:58
<johnny>
lutan, just leave your client online
23:58
if possible
23:59
<lutan>
no , i would like to do that but this is not my pc.