IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 30 August 2009   (all times are UTC)

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09:49
<ftherese>
hello, I am using ltsp-cluster-lbserver and it fails each time I try to start it
09:50
is there any way to access the log file?
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10:23
<ftherese>
Can anyone help with ltsp-cluster-lbserver problems?
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13:05
<KavanS>
ok I have setup ltsp already on a server and have thin clients booting...is there anyway to get it to listen on vnc/rdp so I can remote to it from laptops/existing desktops as well?
13:05
ahh google is finding some results on this...
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13:51
<chupacabra>
exit
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14:41
<nubae>
hi alkisg
14:41
how's it going?
14:41
oh and hi vagrantc... thanks for the Linex intro
14:52
<vagrantc>
nubae: of course!
14:52
nubae: thanks for showing me around one of sevilla's least-known tourist attractions :)
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15:01
<nubae>
hah
15:01
:-)
15:01* nubae is busy building content at linux-for-education.org
15:01
<nubae>
hey... u know u could show freegeek that page
15:01
it needs a Debian section pretty badly
15:02
<alkisg>
hi nubae
15:02
Damn this Empathy doesn't blink when someone talks to you :(
15:02
<ftherese>
anyone here know about gettin ltsp-cluster-lbserver to work?
15:02
<nubae>
well it does
15:02
<vagrantc>
nubae: freegeek's kind of a closet debian shop ... the machines we give away are all ubuntu
15:03
<nubae>
ftherese: nope, there's a bug in it
15:03
<ftherese>
did it ever work?
15:03
<vagrantc>
nubae: that basically a moodle site? or that moodle clone?
15:03
<nubae>
vagrantc: ah.... well it could use some ubuntu lovin too... Im just creating 2 moodle courses (the perfect ubuntu desktop, and then jazzing up your ubuntu desktop <make it look like a mac>
15:04
)
15:04
pure moodle
15:04
no clone
15:04
:-)
15:04
<ftherese>
anyone have any info on an alternate way of setting up a lbserver for ltsp?
15:04
<vagrantc>
nubae: i'll point the site to freegeek's education coordinator and debian-edu list
15:04
<nubae>
ftherese: I think stgraber is working on it... u'll have to wait I believe
15:05
excellent... I'll make whoever wants to take part an admin and they can help add content
15:05
<ftherese>
are we talking about days or weeks or months?
15:05
<nubae>
maybe even freegeek stuff
15:05
like how to open a computer/close one
15:05
etc
15:05
ftherese: no idea... this is OS... how long is a piece of string
15:06
<ftherese>
depends on what it's tied to...
15:06
<nubae>
lots of unpaid, generally overworked developers ;-)
15:07
<ftherese>
we'll I'd love to help, but I haven't a clue how most of this stuff works beneath the surface
15:07
<nubae>
alkisg: true, no blinking, but u get a speech bubble, think there is a blinking switch though
15:08
<johnny>
empathy is still a non awesome xmpp client
15:08
<nubae>
ftherese: thats the beauty of open source... its there to look at
15:08
<johnny>
pidgin is better than it now
15:08
minus the geoloc :(
15:08
<nubae>
johnny: don't diss it man
15:08
<johnny>
why not?
15:08
<nubae>
its rocking
15:08
<johnny>
why not diss what sucks
15:08
<alkisg>
nubae: nah if the empathy window isn't on top, there's no notification at all
15:08
<nubae>
its telepathy based
15:08
and that alone makes it rock
15:08
<johnny>
telepathy people won't even let you inject your own standards
15:08
i disagree
15:08
ask real xmpp developers about telepathy
15:09
telepathy is too lcd to be good
15:09
<nubae>
heh, well Im currently developing xmpp collaboration with telepathy
15:09
its the only way i know of
15:09
<johnny>
uhmm.. what kind of collaboration?
15:09
<nubae>
bah... its just big...
15:09
some XEPs
15:10
<johnny>
what i mean.. is that it'd be nice if they would actually not care so mucha bout legacy protocols
15:10
and focus on building great xmpp services
15:10
<nubae>
game type stuff, sending too and fro of config files
15:10
<johnny>
there's still no PEP even..
15:10
or discovery
15:10
or adhoc commands
15:10
etc
15:10
<nubae>
what are u talking about
15:10
sure there is
15:10
I'm using disco extension in my app
15:10
<johnny>
disco extension?
15:11
<nubae>
discovery
15:11
thats what the XEP is called
15:11
<johnny>
i don't see any visible interface
15:11
<nubae>
u want the link?
15:11
u talking about telepathy now or empathy?
15:11
I'm talking about telepathy
15:11
<johnny>
both i guess..
15:12
<nubae>
well they are not the same
15:12
<johnny>
telepathy won't let you inject raw stanzas in the tubes
15:12
you can only do what it exposes
15:12
i know they are different
15:13
<nubae>
both PEP and disco are used by telepathy in all sugar communication
15:13
so I'm really not sure what u mean
15:13
<johnny>
did they finally fix that
15:13
it seemed like they weren't last time i checked
15:13
<nubae>
it is relatively new that it works as intended yeah
15:14
<johnny>
what i mean tho.. is that some folks were keeping everything too LCD.. but perhaps the are moving away from that mindset FINALLY
15:14
<nubae>
LCD?
15:14
<johnny>
lowest common denominator
15:14
between all the supported protocols
15:14
<nubae>
too many acronyms :-)
15:15
<johnny>
it's the complain i used to make about pidgin.
15:15
<nubae>
yeah... they are trying to make it a pretty barebones framework
15:15
<johnny>
but pidgin is starting to become a better xmpp client than ever before..
15:15
which is great
15:15
<nubae>
but doesnt stop u building with it
15:15
<johnny>
not if you can't inject raw stanzas
15:15
<nubae>
well... it doesnt do desktop sharing for one
15:15
empathy does
15:15
<alkisg>
nubae: did you try it?
15:16
(with msn? how? only with empathy on the other end?)
15:16
<nubae>
empathy to empathy
15:16
<alkisg>
vnc-based?
15:16
<nubae>
xmpp based
15:16
<alkisg>
So they implement their own screen + keyboard grabbing?
15:16
<johnny>
alkisg, yes.. the good stuff has to rely on xmpp
15:17
<alkisg>
The transport layer isn't really important in screen sharing :)
15:17
The screen grabbing is the main problem...
15:17
<nubae>
it would be cool if it really becomes cross platform so u could share a windows and a lin desktop
15:17
<vagrantc>
LTSP5 is way better than any of the stuff y'all are talking about :P
15:18
<nubae>
it is telepathy that has built in support for desktop sharing
15:18
thats how it does it+
15:18
heh... well a combo is the best... but I hate to say it... xmpp is the future
15:18
<alkisg>
hmmm we're still on #LTSP :P
15:18
<nubae>
its all gonna go that way
15:18
I think johnny agrees
15:18
<johnny>
nubae, see.. i really agree with the concept of telepathy for sure
15:18
i just don't agree with the direction so far
15:18
<nubae>
well, I dont follow the politics
15:18
<johnny>
i have a feeling they will come around in the long term
15:19
it just sucks now
15:19
<alkisg>
Woah, that sounds interesting. If telepathy has embedded support for desktop sharing, that is...
15:20
<nubae>
the thing is, telepathy really has advanced collab facilities that pidgin will never have
15:20
<johnny>
sure
15:20
<nubae>
alkisg: it is interesting...
15:20
<johnny>
of course
15:20
<alkisg>
nubae: but I'm seeing this on the net: "Work has been done to share your desktop with your contacts. This is done by creating a Telepathy StreamTube with your contact and passing the VNC protocol through it."
15:20
So if it uses VNC... :(
15:21
<nubae>
through a telepathy tube sure
15:21
thats how all collaboration works
15:21
with tubes
15:21
there are 2 kinds
15:21
direct data
15:21
<alkisg>
Ah ok still vnc then... which client do they use?
15:21
<nubae>
binary in other words
15:21
and xml based
15:21
<johnny>
probably vino
15:21
or whatever
15:21
whatever that uses i mean
15:21
<alkisg>
Well vino has upnp support, so why use empathy then :P :D
15:21
<KavanS>
vino?
15:21
<johnny>
to discover
15:21* nubae goes read up on desktop sharing with empathy
15:22
<johnny>
alkisg, you see your friends and a click abutton
15:22
upnp can't do that
15:22
<nubae>
yeah its the disco stuff which is really really cool
15:22
<johnny>
that's not even disco tho
15:22
that's just presence
15:22
<nubae>
and the bypassing firewalls
15:22
as if they didnt exist
15:22
<alkisg>
johnny: ok that's what all the :P was about... still, it's no big deal, that could easily be supported in any app
15:22
<johnny>
alkisg, you're missing the point.. this is just one of the first real features built on this
15:22
<alkisg>
Ah ok tunnels right
15:23
<nubae>
yeah true, but explaining the difference right now seemed a little pointless
15:23
<KavanS>
hrm....using empathy on ltsp?
15:23
<johnny>
alkisg, for sure we won't be using things like gobby in the future
15:23
for collaborative code writing
15:23
<nubae>
alkisg: for example, my edu app... I'm building collaboration with telepathy using tubes
15:23
there are even frameworks that make it really simple like groupthink
15:24
<johnny>
hmm.. anybody familiar with mexico city ?
15:24
<nubae>
like 9 lines of python code allow u to create collab connections
15:24
<johnny>
a friend of mine has a broken computer.. and he needs to get a new one for relatively cheap
15:24
<alkisg>
OK I get the point... I just *wished* :( there was an alternative to VNC :-/
15:24
(I mean not vnc based)
15:24
<johnny>
alkisg, i'm sure there will be .. eventually
15:24
<nubae>
alkisg: well, in theory should be possible with xmpp
15:25
<johnny>
nubae, parts are possible with xmpp...
15:25
<nubae>
if video streaming and audio streaming are possible
15:25
<johnny>
but most of that is only using xmpp for routing
15:25
and going out of band for p2p
15:25
<nubae>
best is, go read the XEPs
15:25
u might find something in there
15:25
<alkisg>
Too much to do, too little time :)
15:25
<nubae>
XEP = XMPP extension plugins
15:26
<johnny>
huh
15:26
no
15:26
<nubae>
or is it protocols?
15:26
<johnny>
proposal
15:26
alkisg, they are rfcs for xmpp basically
15:26
<nubae>
relatively easy reading though
15:26
well written stuff
15:26
<johnny>
altho xmpp itself does have an ietf official rfc.. these are for extensions to that protocol
15:26
<nubae>
the other cool thing is xmpp bots
15:27
<KavanS>
it would be nice if pidgin had sip and sipvideo support
15:27
<johnny>
managed by the xmpp standards foundation.. not the ietf
15:27
<nubae>
serving config files to programs and such
15:27
<KavanS>
well video support in general...but sip would be nice too
15:27
<johnny>
sip is gonna die KavanS
15:27
it does have video now KavanS
15:27
in 2.6 that is
15:27
<alkisg>
I think pidgin now has video support
15:27
<KavanS>
johnny, what will replace SIP?
15:27
<johnny>
jingle
15:27
which is what nubae is talking about here
15:27
<KavanS>
yeah, I saw news about it supporting video
15:28
<johnny>
not immediately of course.. but seems likely in the long term
15:28
<alkisg>
Damn this empathy font/background hurts my eyes... /me reboots to jaunty :)
15:28* nubae is using karmic...
15:28
<nubae>
its gonna be a nice release
15:28
<johnny>
as you can see.. simple is not really gaining any traction whatsoever
15:28
<nubae>
simple?
15:29
<johnny>
the im+presence extension of sip
15:29
<nubae>
oh
15:29
<johnny>
it is championed by MS amongst others
15:29
but is overly complicated and not really gaining outside implementations
15:30
and as more people rely on xmpp for presence.. it seems likely that they will use it for voice and video too
15:30
<nubae>
another reason to use empathy
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15:31
<KavanS>
what?
15:31
<johnny>
empathy will probably never be my client of choice
15:31
<KavanS>
yeah SIP sucks for NAT, I know that...
15:31
I prefer pidgin for general IM
15:31
<johnny>
it is meant for new users
15:31
i need something for advanced users
15:31
that's why i still use gajim
15:31
<nubae>
I've not really looked at the 2 side by side... but I'd guess video/audio streaming works far better under xmpp
15:31
<KavanS>
i need something that enables me to detect snitches
15:32
<johnny>
nubae, let me know when empathy supports transports :)
15:32
KavanS, you're probably the snitch
15:32
<KavanS>
johnny, I'm kidding
15:32
<johnny>
see.. look how easy that was.. i just detected one :)
15:32
lol
15:32
<KavanS>
lol
15:32
what is gajim?
15:32
<nubae>
transports implemented in what way?
15:32
<johnny>
a xmpp only client
15:32
nubae, server side transports
15:33
i have aim, facebook, myspace, irc
15:33
it is actually built on libpurple
15:33
spectrum.im
15:33
<KavanS>
oh, that is like l33t times 49 or something damn
15:33
<johnny>
i'm one of the contributors.. sorta
15:33
<KavanS>
yeah, I like a separate irc client I guess
15:33
cool
15:33
<johnny>
i'm not really good at C++.. so i am helpin in other ways.. like db design and teaching him how to use git
15:34
i like my transport. .because wherever i login.. my channels follow me
15:34
as they are bookmarked on the server
15:34
<nubae>
oh thats what u mean
15:34
well... cant be hard to code
15:34
I'm sure its in the works
15:34
<johnny>
just waiting for the patch for ejabberd to be implemented that allows it to work in a more screen like fashion
15:35* vagrantc can't count the number of times the future FOO has been discussed on #ltsp and then disappeared a few months later
15:35
<johnny>
so that when you login it doesn't require you to choose a new nick and be in there tewice
15:35
<nubae>
last I read it worked already... or am I missing something
15:35
<johnny>
nubae, i'll see what happens in 2.27
15:35
i'm going to upgrade to fedora12 alpha soon
15:35
<nubae>
FOO?
15:35
<johnny>
it sure ain't right in 2.26
15:35
<nubae>
all these damn acronyms
15:35
<johnny>
no pep there as far as i can tell
15:35
<vagrantc>
nubae: also BAR
15:35
<nubae>
:-)
15:36
<johnny>
let alone transports..
15:36
<nubae>
in ejabberd?
15:36
<johnny>
huh? 'm talking about empathy
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15:36
<nubae>
just waiting for the patch for ejabberd to be implemented that allows it to work in a more screen like fashion
15:36* vagrantc wonders what happened to LTSP
15:36
<nubae>
u confused me
15:36
<KavanS>
so does anyone use a voip app with ltsp?
15:36
<johnny>
that's something i need to make logging into multiple accounts be more natural nubae
15:37
<KavanS>
more specifically a sip client?
15:37
<johnny>
gizmo? ekiga?
15:37* vagrantc is talking about antipathy
15:37
<KavanS>
johnny, yeah I tried getting ekiga to work...that failed...
15:37
<alkisg>
vagrantc: c'mon, it's Sunday... no'ones working in #ltsp today :)
15:37
<johnny>
well go get it to work KavanS
15:37
i'm sure somebody can help you
15:37
just not us
15:37
<KavanS>
ha
15:37
<nubae>
XMLTSPP
15:37
:-)
15:38
<johnny>
nubae, atm leaving a client logged in somewhere, and then logging in elsewhere, does not work very well for chat rooms of any type.. you have to be in the chatroom twice for it to work
15:38
the patch will allow it to kinda attach to the same username..
15:38
<nubae>
right, I read about that in the XEPs somewhere
15:39
<johnny>
it's in the muc xep .. there just aren't any server implementations as far as i know
15:39
<nubae>
been trying to read up as much as possible via the ejabberd forums
15:39
lot of good info there
15:39
even considering learning ERLANG
15:39
<johnny>
also.. something i'm excited about.. is server side message storage :) going to be implemented in gajim soon
15:39
<nubae>
but I disconsidered that fast
15:39
<johnny>
erlang isn't that bad
15:40
but perhaps you miht want to look into the prosody server
15:40
<nubae>
gah.... immutable variables
15:40
<johnny>
read metajack.im blog.. you'll see why he dislikes mutable variables :)
15:40
<nubae>
I did consider that too... or maybe LUA
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15:40
<KavanS>
ok, so...random question, can ltsp enable a workstation to use a usb scanner?
15:40
<johnny>
for the way ejabberd works.. immutable variables are kinda required
15:40
<KavanS>
ex: scanner plugged into workstation, then somehow it's patched to ltsp session?
15:40
<johnny>
with the clustering and actor based programming paradigm
15:41
nubae, prosody is in lua..
15:41
<nubae>
johnny: my brain doesnt get as far as wrapping around erlang and its methodology
15:41
<johnny>
mostly anyways.. there is some C++ in the gloox lib
15:41
<nubae>
oh... thats the one I was looking at then
15:42
synapse seems like a cute client
15:42
<johnny>
the muc implementation there is definitely incomplete tho.. :)
15:42
i don't know.. i thought it was kinda lame..
15:42
<nubae>
but a little too ahead of the game
15:42
well, it doesnt work
15:42
but has a lot of impelmentations
15:42
or... its trying a lot
15:43
<johnny>
you'll want to wait to deplly prosody for awhile.. the muc support just gained admin and channel config 2 days ago
15:43
<nubae>
heh ok
15:43
<johnny>
it is still in heavy devel
15:43
you might want to keep tabs to.. or you could go the java route via tigase..
15:43
<nubae>
there was another client that seemed really cool for deving... what was it again
15:43
<johnny>
not sure..
15:43
<nubae>
:-)
15:43
<johnny>
tkabber, psi, gajim.. those are the only good devving clients i know of..
15:44
<nubae>
tkabber
15:44
<johnny>
and gajim implements more than psi (altho psi does have voice and video)
15:44
i don't know tho.. gajim might be matching tkabber now
15:44
<nubae>
but its tk...
15:44
not very powerful language
15:44
but easy
15:45
<johnny>
gajim gives me tkabber one window style interface .. so that is good enough.. plus it is in python :)
15:45
<nubae>
oh well, python major +
15:45
at work we are looking for a client that we can dev
15:45
something really really simple to begin with
15:46
so teachers dont have so many options
15:46
but some requirements, like file collecting from server
15:46
<vagrantc>
df -h
15:46
<nubae>
well developed muc
15:47
disco and presence for locating where kids are
15:47
actviity support maybe (kid x is working on app X
15:47
that kind of thing
16:13
u know what rocks.... devhelp...
16:13
discovered that recently
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16:22
<stgraber>
just pushed a minimal implementation of ltsp fat client
16:23
<bf>
stgraber: what does that mean?
16:23
<stgraber>
just need to push a ltsp-build-client script as well and it should be ready for some better integration
16:23
<bf>
stgraber: is it for clusters?
16:23
<stgraber>
not only
16:24
instead of having everything on an application server with some local applications, it's all on the thin client with some applications on the application server
16:24
nubae implemented it a while ago, the upstream implementation uses what's already there
16:24
it's basically a 4 line change to the code
16:24
<bf>
stgraber: that sounds nice...
16:25
<alkisg>
So nubae's code is now upstream?
16:25
<nubae>
oh nice
16:25
:-)
16:25
<alkisg>
nubae: time for bug squashing :P :D
16:25
<stgraber>
alkisg: not really
16:26
<nubae>
it actually looked pretty good last time I looked
16:26
<stgraber>
my implementation allows mixed setup with the same chroot for both thin and fat client
16:26
it also uses ldm for everyone
16:26
<nubae>
also... its not exactly bigh
16:26
<stgraber>
and sshfs to mount the /home and for login/group
16:26
<alkisg>
stgraber: ah, so it isn't nubae's code, I misunderstood...
16:26
<stgraber>
alkisg: it's the same idea, but done quite differently
16:26
<nubae>
stgraber: we tried to install ltspcluster at Guadalinex
16:26
to check it out
16:26
had problems with lbagent
16:27
<stgraber>
nubae: yeah, Karmic is a bit broken
16:27
<nubae>
oh sshfs much better
16:27
<stgraber>
I wanted to have everything in before FF, I'll fix that soon
16:27
nubae: yeah, basically you have a regular chroot + ubuntu-desktop installed and on session open you either use ssh to start /etc/X11/Xsession remotely or just start it locally
16:28
it could then be a flag in ldm to let you choose between thin and fat client
16:28
or as it's currently the case, a lts.conf setting
16:28
<alkisg>
stgraber: so that fat client implementation is *in* for Karmic?
16:28
<nubae>
lts.conf setting sounds sufficient I guess, though what happens if u have different kinds of fat clients?
16:28
<stgraber>
alkisg: not yet but I may find a way to get it in
16:29
<alkisg>
Is it on your ppa now?
16:29
<stgraber>
alkisg: if it doesn't make it for Karmic, it'll be in my PPA anyway
16:29
<alkisg>
Nice :)
16:29
<stgraber>
alkisg: nope, I commited the patch like 5 minutes ago :)
16:29
<bf>
nubae: you feed different kinds of fatty foods
16:29
<nubae>
:p
16:29
<alkisg>
Heh ok too soon :)
16:30
<stgraber>
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/revision/1183?start_revid=1183
16:30
quite small diff as I was saying :)
16:30
<nubae>
ok, so I can redirect people from my fatclient page to the new location I guess.... or I guess just a message that as of karmic its built in
16:31
<stgraber>
I'd wait for a complete implementation, it's really just a draft and I need to publish a ltsp-build-client plugin for it
16:31
but after that it should be in a pretty good shape
16:31
<nubae>
k
16:31
<stgraber>
also, I have on the roadmap for next hackfest to implement ltsp-remoteapp
16:31
basically the same as localapp but the other way around
16:32ftherese has quit IRC
16:32
<stgraber>
as my implementation uses a ssh socket, I can start a few applications on the application server and have everything else locally
16:32
so for example you could have OpenOffice on the application server and everything else local
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16:39
<nubae>
cool
16:39* alkisg waits eagerly for the ppa upload :)
16:39
<nubae>
biggest issue me and vagrant are seeing at least in Spain are that schools have made the stupid decision to implement wireless with netbooks
16:40
its a political decision
16:40
and now the questions being asked are, how do we make ltsp work with wireless
16:40
which of course has no answer
16:41
<alkisg>
It would be nice if the scripts for sound redirection etc could be seperated, so that a standalone client could connect to the server and experience something similar to ltsp...
16:41
I.e. ssh -X with sound
16:42
<nubae>
or no easy answer... but one idea that came to mind was... using stateless connections to disconnect and reconnect from local to ltsp
16:42
alkisg: right!
16:42
my thinking exacly
16:42
so lets say netbook has a cache of sorts
16:43
when in ltsp area, it uses its resources in as far as possible
16:43
then when the student takes the netbook home, he uses local fat client
16:43
and the computer stores all changes to cache, synching the following day when he goes back into ltsp area
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16:43
<nubae>
dont know if that makes sense
16:43
<stgraber>
from the experience I had with netbook and wireless, it's not really possible to run that over wireless, mainly because of the bandwidth usage
16:44
what we usually do in these cases is using the same infrastructure we have to syncronize our ltsp server but for netbooks
16:44
that way netbooks always have the same configuration as application servers
16:44
<nubae>
yeah, but making it just do the synching wireless
16:44korcan has joined #ltsp
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16:45
<nubae>
so... users who have netbooks, would still plug in when in school
16:45
but unplug when they go home
16:45
keeping same sets of files and configuration
16:45
I dont know how to explain it
16:45
its not really LTSP anymore
16:47
as far as I can picture it, the user needs to have a fat client either way, both ltsp wise and when he goes home
16:47
perhaps using your reverse localapps makes the most sense here
16:47
1 or 2 apps run off server (lets say security sense ones)
16:48
<bf>
sorry... a question
16:48
unrelated... kind of
16:48
<nubae>
and then /home and config files synch when disconnection happens... but the feeling needs to be seamless
16:49
ie, user can't be told... oh now u're using this, and now u are using that... will totally throw them off, things are complicated enough as they are
16:49
!question
16:49
<ltspbot>
nubae: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
16:49
<nubae>
:-) heh, thats the most useful bot command of all me thinks :-)
16:49
<bf>
if you have two ltsp servers, one of them would be dhcp server... could ...
16:50
right
16:50
the other one be "nextserver" in the conf file?
16:50
does that work?
16:50
<nubae>
anwyay, its a good use case scenario for reverse local apps
16:50
tyhe other what?
16:51
<alkisg>
bf, yes, the dhcp server can be on a different machine than the ltsp server
16:51ftherese has joined #ltsp
16:52
<nubae>
well here he wants one with dhcp server, and the other alone
16:52
<ftherese>
well... I was trying the cluster method
16:52
but it seems like there are some kinks to be worked out
16:52
<nubae>
stgraber is working on it
16:52
he said it might be all worked out for karmic
16:52
he was just here...
16:52
<vagrantc>
stgraber: it should probably use LDM_DEFAULT_XSESSION rather than the server's LDM_XSESSION
16:53
stgraber: for the LTSP_FATCLIENT
16:53
since that will actually be an XSESSION file on the thin client
16:53
<ftherese>
um...
16:54
sorry, I was disconnected a second ago
16:54
<stgraber>
vagrantc: well, I was planning on modifying a bit the ldm scripts that usually retrieve the list of available sessions to check locally instead of on the server
16:54
<nubae>
I'd like to see that in action... so all the code is in PPA ready to go, or still some last bits being worked on?
16:55
vagrantc: btw... LTSP has been eliminated as possible solution for old computer setups :-(
16:55
<vagrantc>
stgraber: well, that's what LDM_DEFAULT_XSESSION should be set to
16:55
nubae: ah well
16:55
<nubae>
made me very sad..
16:56
but to be honest... with wireless everywhere, and them not wanting to throw any money at all at the old stuff, and no maintanance people.,..
16:56
its probably a good thing
16:56
<vagrantc>
better to not do it at all that to do it poorly :)
16:56
<alkisg>
nubae: "for old computer setups" ==> so you just throw them away?
16:57
<nubae>
hehe... vagrantc u wanna explain that can of worms?
16:57
<alkisg>
Here we mostly use ltsp for old labs :)
16:57
<stgraber>
nubae: you can take current karmic and apply that 5 lines patch I posted on IRC before
16:58
<nubae>
u see Spain is really advanced in that area.... so advanced in fact that we dont even have a procedure for getting rid of old stuff
16:58
ok... still got it open
16:59
alkisg: we let the fairies take away the computers in the middle of the night
16:59
and hope for some euros to be left in return
16:59
<alkisg>
Right. We lack the €€€ for the fairies to replace them with newer PCs :)
16:59johnny has left #ltsp
16:59
<nubae>
but the fairies seem quite stingy...
16:59
<vagrantc>
nubae: the "we've got tons and tons of electronic (a.k.a. toxic) waste and just storing it in warehouses" problem?
17:00
<nubae>
hehe... it doesnt even get to the warehouse
17:00
used as target practice for soccer usually
17:00
or <place your sport or targetting activity here>
17:01
jeeez it makes u think...
17:01
alkisg: we are forced... every year to spend X on new machines
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17:01
<nubae>
even if we dont need or want them
17:01
<ftherese1>
Someone was messing with the router settings
17:01
<alkisg>
Woah... I should move 2 timezones to the left :)
17:01
<vagrantc>
nubae: maybe you should just start buying more expensive machines?
17:01
<ftherese1>
and I lost connection
17:01
<nubae>
the old ones, however are not allowed to be moved since they are gov. property... cant be taken home
17:02
and they wont pay for someone to take care of the problem
17:02
so they get put to one side of the room and gather dust
17:02
well its all EU money, so what do they care
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17:02
<nubae>
same thing should really be happenning with Greece
17:02
but somehow they got the short end of the stick there
17:03
<ftherese1>
I still have my same old question though... if I have one ltsp server set up as dhcp server
17:03
can I add another server as nextserver?
17:03
<nubae>
Spain has managed to secure a pretty enourmous stream of unaccountable funding
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17:03
<ftherese1>
sorry for asking the question over and over again
17:03
I just keep getting disconnected
17:03
<alkisg>
(12:51:12 πμ) alkisg: bf, yes, the dhcp server can be on a different machine than the ltsp server <<== ftherese
17:04
<ftherese1>
no... ltsp server, and dhcp server same machine... but an additional ltsp server
17:04
<nubae>
would it auto load balance he means
17:04
<ftherese1>
I am not worried about any automated load balancing right now
17:04
<nubae>
i guess it would yes
17:04
<ftherese1>
I just want to know if it will work
17:04
<vagrantc>
nubae: not knowing the politics of the EU particularly, but it seems like the EU should require as part of their funding process a disposal plan for un-used equipment
17:04
<alkisg>
I don't get it. If you don't want load balancing, what would the second server do?
17:05
<ftherese1>
It will load balance... just not automatically
17:05
<nubae>
sit there and look nice of course :-)
17:05
<ftherese1>
load balance in the sense that there are two servers
17:05
instead of one...
17:05
<vagrantc>
nubae: state governments across the US are requiring hardware manufacturers to start putting money into responsible recycling programs.
17:05
(well, at least oregon and washington)
17:05
<ftherese1>
but as for calculating which server is being more used or whatever, I wouldn't expect it to do that for the moment
17:05
<vagrantc>
some provinces in canada, too
17:06
<nubae>
vagrantc: if only that happened here
17:06
<alkisg>
ftherese1: how do you plan on sending a different next-server option to different PCs ?
17:06
By macaddress?
17:06
<nubae>
ftherese i think it will do that automatically, ie if one is more loaded than another connection will happen quicke with unloaded server
17:06
no?
17:07
<ftherese1>
probably that is true
17:07
<alkisg>
nubae: you mean with 2 dhcp servers?!!!
17:07
<ftherese1>
not two dhcp servers
17:07
in the dhcp.conf file
17:07
<vagrantc>
nubae: well, it took some work to get it here ... and still needs a lot of improvement ... but some similar strategy would be worth exploring...
17:07
<ftherese1>
you can set "nextserver"
17:07
<nubae>
vagrantc: u have some documentation I can nag a higher up with?
17:07
<ftherese1>
I just want to know if that will work
17:08
<nubae>
ftherese we think so yes, try it
17:08
<ftherese1>
ok
17:08
<vagrantc>
nubae: if it's EU money that's actually causing the problem, then it seems like the EU should figure out *some* way to actually deal with it responsibly
17:08
<alkisg>
ftherese1: first, take a look at this: http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#id2699232
17:08
nubae: I don't think so :)
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17:08
<nubae>
ahhhh.. but u see the reponsibiity is now Spains
17:08
:-)
17:08
since they took the money
17:08
<vagrantc>
nubae: i can dig some stuff up ... you looking for the state e-waste programs and such?
17:09
<nubae>
and u think they will spend it on that?
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17:09
<vagrantc>
nubae: yes, well, it's not unheard of to have strings attached to money
17:09
<nubae>
vagrantc: yeah would be great
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17:09
<nubae>
I think they just dont want to deal with the problem, they want to do the ostrich and pretend Spain is behaving responsibly
17:09
<excalibur>
ubuntu - lstp install ... client = dell gx260 .. intel video ... enter username + password.. then get black screen.. any ideas?
17:10
<nubae>
excalibur: video issue
17:10
<excalibur>
how to fix it?
17:10
<nubae>
probably set to 16bit color or 15 bit color if its a intel chip
17:10
<excalibur>
was the same with k12linux
17:11
where would i do that?
17:11
<nubae>
in lts.conf
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17:11
<ftherese1>
thank you for the article alkisg... I read that earlier today
17:11
<excalibur>
but there is no lts.conf in ubuntu's install of ltsp
17:11
<nubae>
first set xconf=true, then check docs..
17:11
<ftherese1>
it was helpful... but you have to set up a ldap server
17:11
<nubae>
excalibur: sure there is
17:11
<ftherese1>
and that was another can of worms
17:12
<excalibur>
there is none in /tftpboot/ltsp/i386 ...
17:12
<nubae>
excalibur: u need to create a file with [default] as first line and place it in /var/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
17:12
<excalibur>
and the one that i did find was empty
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17:12
<nubae>
and add options in there
17:13ftherese has quit IRC
17:13
<nubae>
anyway....
17:13
!docs
17:13
<ltspbot>
nubae: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
17:13
<ftherese1>
so, let me get this straight... I'd have to setup ldap and nfs if I want to add an additional server?
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17:17
<ftherese1>
where is the LDM_SERVER parameter defined?
17:18
anybody?
17:18
<alexqwesa>
lts.conf ?
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17:18
<ftherese1>
where is the right version of that file?
17:19
<alexqwesa>
find -name lts.conf /
17:19
<nubae>
read above
17:20
if u dont follow the instructions, its difficult for us to help
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17:40
<ftherese1>
honestly, I've read a lot already, but it is starting to blend together...
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17:47
<nubae>
well everything is defined in only one place
17:47
in only one file
17:48
so u cant really go wrong there
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22:16
<BCM43>
is it possible to install k12linux EL after a install of CentOS is done?
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22:18
<BCM43>
/join #centos
22:27map7|away is now known as map7
22:27
<map7>
Can anyone help me with a mouse related problem on my LTSP 5 PXE client?
22:29
my mouse works but the cursor is half missing and looks bad, the rest of my screen is fine
22:29
This is a new thin client which I just plugged in and it runs an ATI video card and my server runs a Nvidia card.
22:29
I've got the nvidia drivers installed as I need those on the dual monitor server.
22:32
My server is an Ubuntu 904 32bit with LTSP 5.
22:37
<beakburke>
The video card in the server is irrelvant
22:38
I'd say it's an ATI driver issue most likely
22:38
<map7>
so can I install the ATI driver just for that one client?
22:38
or better still install the ATI driver for all but only use it for that one client?
22:38
<beakburke>
You might want to see what driver the thin client is actually using
22:39
I think there is a PCI id list that determines what driver it grabs
22:39
it might be just using the VESA driver
22:40Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
22:40
<map7>
how do I check?
22:40
my xorg.conf shows nvidia, but it reads that off the server
22:40
<beakburke>
geez, been a while since I used Ubuntu
22:40Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
22:40
<map7>
lspci -v shows me info
22:40
about all my cards
22:40
<beakburke>
the xorg.conf is just for the server
22:40booghotfoot has joined #ltsp
22:40
<beakburke>
you need to run that on the client
22:41
the easiest way might to use a livecd to boot it
22:41
there's a switch that gives you the pci id number
22:42
<johnny>
no.. the easiest way
22:42
is to go to console on the client
22:42
<beakburke>
-n
22:42
if you have a console on the client
22:42
<johnny>
you don't need to use a livecd
22:42
you always have one
22:42
you just have to turn it on
22:42
<beakburke>
that's with i mean
22:42
<johnny>
or.. if you'r eusing a new enough distro
22:42
you can might be able to do this
22:42
<beakburke>
if he didn't want to turn that on
22:43
<johnny>
ltsp-localapps lspci
22:43
or ltsp-localapp maybe
22:43
<beakburke>
I think you can just turn that on in the ltsp.conf file
22:43BCM43 has quit IRC
22:43
<johnny>
localapps are enabled by default
22:44
<beakburke>
I didn't think localapps were by default now, but I haven't been using Ubuntu, so that might be true now
22:44
Last one I tested was Fedora 10
22:45
<johnny>
they are enabled by default most likely in fedora 11.. as they aren't used unless you forcefully chose to via ltsp-localapp command
22:45
err fedora10.. but definitely in fedora 11
22:46
<map7>
ok looks like ltsp-localapps is deafult under ubuntu 904
22:46
so i've been able to do a 'ltsp-localapps xterm'
22:46
<johnny>
yes
22:46
<map7>
and then a lspci
22:46
<johnny>
there you go
22:46
<beakburke>
either way, you can get the ID number of the video card but running lspci -n on the thin client
22:46
<johnny>
sure.. i just wanted him to know the easy way
22:46
and no.. there's no easy way to use the nvidia driver for just one machine
22:46
or ati for that matter
22:47
i mean.. you can.. but you're going to bloat them all by 30M mem usage
22:47
<beakburke>
can't you specify that in the lts.conf file by the MAC address
22:47
<johnny>
there's probably a good X* option
22:47
yes
22:47
but you will bloat all clients by 30M
22:47
<map7>
so I get the ID: 1002:95c4 for my Radeon HD3400 series
22:48
ok well my clients all have 1GB of ram so it would be ok to use 30MB of that for the ATI or Nvidia driver per client
22:49
some have Nvidia some are ATI
22:49
but this one I'm trying to get working is ATI
22:50
<johnny>
ok
22:50
then just install the restricted driver package i think
22:50
in the chroot
22:50
you might not have to specify the drivers manually
22:50
<map7>
then re-build my client image?
22:50
<johnny>
yes
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23:05
<map7>
johnny I just booted the ubuntu live cd to see if it has the same problem and it does. It's using the ATI opensource driver I think
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23:10
<beakburke>
Hence my live cd suggestion :D
23:11
now you know it's the driver
23:11
you can either use the VESA driver or the ATI binary then
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23:12
<map7>
yeah I'll just need to work out how to install that nicely under ubuntu without using their hardware manager tool
23:13
i put the XSERVER = 'vesa' into my default section of my lts.conf file for all ltsp clients before but that has it's own problems. ie: it doesn't allow me to use high resolution or wide screen resolutions. The mouse looks great though.
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23:18
<beakburke>
the vesa driver is really just a workaround
23:18
it's not great, just functional
23:18
I you CAN specify vesa for just that client
23:19
[MAC address]
23:19
<map7>
ok is that done in the lts.conf file?
23:20
and once I've installed the ATI proprietary driver can I do the same but with that driver in the lts.conf file?
23:20
<beakburke>
yep
23:20
it's how you'd specify any per client options
23:21
in this case XSERVER = "drivername"
23:21
<map7>
oh yeah I see, that's really handy
23:22
<beakburke>
under the [MAC address] (or [hostname] if you have names and resolution working on the thin clients
23:22
man lts.conf will give you a whole list of parameters IIRC
23:23
<map7>
I'm looking at that now.
23:23
I just found out about this lts.conf file today, looks like this will help solve a few issues with my setup.
23:25
<beakburke>
Thats where the power is, once you get the basics of the setup down
23:26
Once I make sure the HowTo is still good for Fedora 11, I think I might try to get LTSP integrated into slackware 13
23:26
that should be interesting
23:26
read: a lot of work
23:27
<johnny>
less work now..
23:27
since the work to get fedora and gentoo working
23:27
got rid of lots of ubuntuisms
23:27
<beakburke>
true
23:27
that's why I'm thinking about this now
23:27
course Slackware uses the BSD style init system
23:28
so that might be interesting
23:28
although I think you CAN use the sysV style too, it's just kind of annoying
23:28
gets messy
23:28
we'll see
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<beakburke>
something to try with all my free time
23:29
:D
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