IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 7 February 2013   (all times are UTC)

00:03dorphalsig has joined IRC (dorphalsig!be93997b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.147.153.123)
00:05
<dorphalsig>
Hello, I'm having a bit of trouble with local printing
00:05
(it just wont work)
00:05
if anyody lives in here, maybe you could help me?
00:10Phantomas has left IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas)
00:18anunnaki has left IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net, Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:22
<vagrantc>
dorphalsig: try to describe your problem, and wait a while, and people will respond if they can
00:22
explain your setup, what OS is installed, version of ltsp...
00:35
<dorphalsig>
vagrantc: I'm on debian 6 (squeeze), running the stable ltsp build, 5.2.4
00:36
trying to connet a USB HP LJ 1300 printer
00:36
and I can't print
00:36
I mean I've added it to CUPS
00:36
I know the client recognizes it (because I have /deb/usb/lp0)
00:36
but I cant print
01:04Phantomas has joined IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas)
01:18adrianorg__ has left IRC (adrianorg__!~adrianorg@177.156.225.34, Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:36vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@freegeek/vagrantc, Quit: leaving)
01:42Enslaver has joined IRC (Enslaver!~Enslaver@74.7.196.242)
01:52dorphalsig has left IRC (dorphalsig!be93997b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.147.153.123, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
02:13Enslaver has left IRC (Enslaver!~Enslaver@74.7.196.242, Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
02:37Phantomas has left IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas, Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
02:53simpoir has left IRC (simpoir!~simpoir@209.141.57.61)
03:10anunnaki has joined IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
03:11Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955
03:34Enslaver has joined IRC (Enslaver!~Enslaver@c-98-196-42-169.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
03:47Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
04:35vnc786 has joined IRC (vnc786!~chatzilla@49.248.129.178)
04:38ajith has joined IRC (ajith!1bfb78c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.27.251.120.194)
04:38
<ajith>
JI
04:38
HI
04:39
Chan..How are you doing
04:39
I am having problem with client login in ubuntu clusters
04:39
can you tell ,me how can i resolve it
04:56sha has joined IRC (sha!~sha@g231163205.adsl.alicedsl.de)
04:57anunnaki has left IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net, Remote host closed the connection)
04:59sha_ has left IRC (sha_!~sha@d148237.adsl.hansenet.de, Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
05:04
<ajith>
I am having problem with client login in ubuntu clusters
05:04
can you tell ,me how can i resolve it
05:05
HI
05:21ajith has left IRC (ajith!1bfb78c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.27.251.120.194, Quit: Page closed)
05:22anunnaki has joined IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
06:36cyberorg has left IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg, Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
06:43Enslaver has left IRC (Enslaver!~Enslaver@c-98-196-42-169.hsd1.tx.comcast.net, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
06:48Enslaver has joined IRC (Enslaver!~Enslaver@74.7.196.242)
06:54khildin has joined IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip-80-236-222-28.dsl.scarlet.be)
07:29Enslaver has left IRC (Enslaver!~Enslaver@74.7.196.242, Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
07:49Enslaver has joined IRC (Enslaver!~Enslaver@c-98-196-42-169.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
08:02dievel has joined IRC (dievel!~dievel@2-229-104-66.ip196.fastwebnet.it)
08:06mealstrom has joined IRC (mealstrom!~mealstrom@46.63.71.254)
08:39Gremble has joined IRC (Gremble!~Ben@cpc35-aztw23-2-0-cust207.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
08:40dobber has joined IRC (dobber!~dobber@89.190.199.210)
09:43vnc786 has left IRC (vnc786!~chatzilla@49.248.129.178, Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 11.0/20120410121533])
09:53work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
10:00ajith has joined IRC (ajith!b7522f02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.183.82.47.2)
10:01teacher has joined IRC (teacher!c23fe7c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.63.231.198)
10:01
<teacher>
Αλκη;
10:01
<ajith>
hey I faciung problem with nbd and error is unregistered device at major 43
10:01
<alkisg>
teacher: hello
10:01
<ajith>
please help me me out in this
10:01
<alkisg>
teacher: γράψε: /j #ts.sch.gr
10:01
Για να έρθεις στο ελληνικό κανάλι υποστήριξης
10:01
(εδώ είναι το αγγλικό)
10:02
<ajith>
I am trying to connect from my thin client agter looking in the the log nbd from server it is givng me this mesage
10:02teacher is now known as dorita
10:09
<Enslaver>
wow i think my unionfs overlay inside my initramfs i wrote into dracut actually might work
10:09
its just slow
10:09
<ajith>
hello Enslaver
10:09
<Enslaver>
howdy
10:09
<ajith>
r u facing proble with dracut
10:09
error
10:10
it is nothing but restart ur nfs
10:10
and see it will work for sure
10:10
<Enslaver>
I haven't gotten an error yet
10:11
I'm a little concerned about how the cow file system writes/rewrites its inodes
10:11
<ajith>
okay
10:11
what is cow i also noticed that in edubuntu
10:11
<Enslaver>
copy on write
10:11
its also a mammal that makes a moo noise.
10:14
btw your error with the NBD has to due to the NBD kernel module not being loaded, 43 is NBD's major device number
10:15
/dev/nbd0 is major 43 which is a block device created by the kernel or kernel module
10:16
try running modprobe nbd
10:17
woot, my sys root is now rw :)
10:21dorita has left IRC (dorita!c23fe7c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.63.231.198, Quit: Page closed)
10:30teacher has joined IRC (teacher!c23fe7c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.63.231.197)
10:30teacher is now known as dorita
10:30
<alkisg>
dorita: /j #ts.sch.gr
10:46adrianorg__ has joined IRC (adrianorg__!~adrianorg@187.113.246.15)
11:07
<knipwim>
Enslaver: i see you wrote a dracut unionfs module :)
11:08
be happy to test that this weekend
11:08dorita has left IRC (dorita!c23fe7c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.63.231.197, Quit: Page closed)
11:29
<Enslaver>
well, its in the process, it works when called from rdshell
11:30
for some reason it won't when ran all the way through
11:31
nm i think i just figured it out
11:31
<knipwim>
Enslaver: i'm doing a commit for the NBD mount this weekend, or a commit request
11:32
so the named nbd exports are more robust
11:32
also, i remember i had some questions about the spec filew you pastebinned
11:32
but when i looked again, it was already gone
11:35
<Enslaver>
i believe its still on my launched trunk
11:35
launchpad*
11:36
i'd like to see the debian package config so i can double check mine with it
11:36
knipwim: you any good with dracut?
11:37
This is my first time trying to code for it and I'm hitting a snag.
11:37
<knipwim>
Enslaver: i've looked at it for the nbd mount
11:38
and tried an aufs plugin
11:38
some time ago
11:39
<dievel>
Hi everybody! I'm using Edubuntu 12.04LTS with ltsp-server 5.3.7-0ubuntu2.3. Days ago Alksig pointend mi out that it's a bit an old version of LTSP. Does exist now a way to upgrade via PPA/backports?
11:41
<Enslaver>
so i have my unionfs module directory, 3 scripts, install, check and unionfsroot which does the work
11:42
i install unionfsroot to /sbin in the initramfs but how do i tell it to run?
11:42
insthook?
11:44
inst "$moddir/unionfsroot" "/sbin/unionfsroot"
11:44
inst_hook cmdline 90 "$moddir/unionfsroot"
11:44
something like that?
11:48
really it just needs to run late in the pre-pivot stage
11:59
omg unionfs is a cpu hog
12:00
<alkisg>
dievel: is that the case with ubuntu server and debian chroot?
12:25
<ogra_>
Enslaver, unionfs as the kernel hack or unionfs as the fuse filesystem ?
12:26
<Enslaver>
fuse
12:26
<ogra_>
the latter is unusably slow (we did some tests in ubuntu before going to aufs)
12:26
<Enslaver>
well the nice thing about unionfs-fuse is that i can run it in userspace and not rely on a custom kernel, although its probably what i'm gonna have to do anyway
12:26* ogra_ would suggest some other overlay method
12:27
<ogra_>
well, the prob with userspace is that it is another extra layer that makes everything slow
12:27
<Enslaver>
like what? dmsquash-live?
12:27
<ogra_>
no way around that, if you want it at a usable spped you have to use kernel implementations (unionfs, aufs overlayfs)
12:27
<alkisg>
ogra_: does that work on chunks of files, or on complete files? I.e. if I want to modify 1 byte of a .dvd file (4 Gb), will that need 4 Gb tmpfs?
12:28
<ogra_>
i think so
12:28
<Enslaver>
now if unionfs worked at the block level
12:28
<ogra_>
i'm not the one who actively played with the code, but i helped testing etc
12:28
<alkisg>
If it worked at file + chunk level, it would be much more efficient...
12:28
<ogra_>
npone of the fuse variants out there are usable for a rootfs
12:29
<alkisg>
Isn't clickfs fuse based?
12:29
<Enslaver>
What about using ZFS like sun's VDI?
12:29
<ogra_>
dunno, does that support union ? (and also is there any sane kernel patch)
12:30
<Enslaver>
It supports union if its run at the block level i believe
12:30
which pretty much eliminates union all together
12:30
playing with this unionfs it might not be so bad
12:31
It's very customizable
12:31
<ogra_>
try it, but in any case you will need kernel patches
12:31
ZFS isnt in any distro kernel i know
12:31
<Enslaver>
yah i have my kernel compile running now :(
12:31
i thought it was in 2.6.28+ ?
12:32
I might be thinking of fuse
12:33
<alkisg>
http://zfs-fuse.net/
12:33
<Enslaver>
I've been reading up on zfsonlinux, looks promising, think i'll make my next kernel include aufs, zfs, nbd and some other fun stuff
12:34
<alkisg>
Is there any advantage to zfs over e.g. btrfs?
12:34* alkisg can't wait for btrfs to be stable, its snapshots will make ltsp-pnp instant
12:35
<Enslaver>
doesn't suse use btrfs?
12:35
<alkisg>
I don't think any distro ships it as the default
12:35
<ogra_>
that would be brave
12:35
its far from being done
12:35
<Enslaver>
fc17?
12:35
<alkisg>
(...and file-based compression will make squashfs unneeded)
12:35
I don't think it will be in fc19 either
12:36
<Enslaver>
/usr/share/dracut/modules.d/90btrfs
12:36
looks like dracut is ready for it
12:36
<alkisg>
Most distros support it, but the filesystem itself isn't ready
12:36
<Enslaver>
oic
12:38
someone join #btrfs and tell them i said to hurry
12:38
<alkisg>
Hehe
12:38
They'll probably reply "send money and we'll hurry" :)
12:49
<Enslaver>
i'll remind them I'm not obama
12:58
finally, /root/rpmbuild/RPMS/x86_64/kernel-2.6.32279.el6.thinclient.x86_64-2.x86_64.rpm
12:59
<alkisg>
!ltsp-bug
12:59
<ltsp>
ltsp-bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
13:14jammcq has left IRC (jammcq!~jam@c-69-245-75-255.hsd1.mi.comcast.net, Quit: leaving)
13:14alkisg is now known as work_alkisg
13:20biomorph has joined IRC (biomorph!~biomorph@91.85.204.16)
13:20telex has left IRC (telex!~telex@freeshell.de, Remote host closed the connection)
13:22telex has joined IRC (telex!~telex@freeshell.de)
13:32Gremble has left IRC (Gremble!~Ben@cpc35-aztw23-2-0-cust207.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com, Quit: I Leave)
14:03dead_inside has joined IRC (dead_inside!~dead_insi@76.75.3.174)
14:18
<dievel>
alkisg: sorry, I was away from computer. Nope, I have a normal edubuntu installation with a i386 chroot environment, coming from the installation. I had some issue with epoptes, because in the image was not presente the epoptes client.
14:19
Helping me, you noticed that the LTSP version in edubuntu 12.04LTS, from repos, was quite old and missing some nice feature.
14:19
So I was guessing If i could upgrade the packages without messing up the whole server.
14:32
<warren>
fedora 18 sort of uses btrfs by default
14:33
Enslaver: we can't ship kernel-based zfs in fedora or epel
14:33
Enslaver: incompatible license
14:34
Enslaver: you could potentially patch unionfs or aufs into your thinclient-only kernel, but that will be a maintenance burden entirely on you.
14:34
Enslaver: for years Valerie Aurora has been talking about an upstream union solution
14:34
I wonder what happened to that
14:34jedeye has joined IRC (jedeye!~masalie@uwcfw.uwc.ac.za)
14:38
<warren>
Enslaver: sorry to hear that fuse unionfs is too slo
14:38
slow
14:40
Enslaver: https://lwn.net/Articles/447650/
14:41
Enslaver: latest news I can fid
14:41
find
14:41designbybeck has joined IRC (designbybeck!~quassel@x176y051.angelo.edu)
14:42
<warren>
Enslaver: err, is it measurably slower?
14:42
how much?
14:46
Enslaver: https://lwn.net/Articles/482779/ Feb 2012 on union mount
14:46mkuzu has joined IRC (mkuzu!~quassel@178.250.90.62)
14:47ajith has left IRC (ajith!b7522f02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.183.82.47.2, Quit: Page closed)
14:51Gremble has joined IRC (Gremble!~Ben@cpc35-aztw23-2-0-cust207.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
14:58
<warren>
Enslaver:
14:58
Enslaver: http://code.google.com/p/sfs/
14:59
Enslaver: whatever this is claims to be a FAST fuse based unionfs
14:59
Enslaver: might be worth comparing
15:02
<sbalneav>
Morning all
15:02jammcq has joined IRC (jammcq!~jam@c-69-245-75-255.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
15:02
<sbalneav>
Morning jammcq
15:05
<jammcq>
sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:05meamy has joined IRC (meamy!~hannes@pd95cdee4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
15:11Enslaver has left IRC (Enslaver!~Enslaver@c-98-196-42-169.hsd1.tx.comcast.net, Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
15:19Phantomas has joined IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas)
15:25biomorph has left IRC (biomorph!~biomorph@91.85.204.16, Remote host closed the connection)
15:33staffencasa has joined IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@8-220.ptpg.oregonstate.edu)
15:37yalu has left IRC (yalu!~yalu@234.105-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be, Read error: Connection reset by peer)
15:37yalu has joined IRC (yalu!~yalu@197.185-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
15:44jedeye has left IRC (jedeye!~masalie@uwcfw.uwc.ac.za, Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
15:44Gremble has left IRC (Gremble!~Ben@cpc35-aztw23-2-0-cust207.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com, Quit: I Leave)
15:44F-GT has left IRC (F-GT!~phantom@ppp59-167-136-109.static.internode.on.net, Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
15:45Enslaver has joined IRC (Enslaver!~Enslaver@adsl-70-241-84-25.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)
15:46
<Enslaver>
I'm back, was warren here?
15:46F-GT has joined IRC (F-GT!~phantom@ppp59-167-136-109.static.internode.on.net)
15:56mkuzu has left IRC (mkuzu!~quassel@178.250.90.62, Remote host closed the connection)
16:00
<Hyperbyte>
!seen warren
16:00
<ltsp>
warren was last seen in #ltsp 1 hour, 1 minute, and 13 seconds ago: <warren> Enslaver: might be worth comparing
16:01
<Hyperbyte>
Enslaver, http://irclogs.ltsp.org/ ;-)
16:02komunista has joined IRC (komunista!~slavko@adsl-195-168-244-224.dynamic.nextra.sk)
16:02
<Enslaver>
!seen my brain
16:02
<ltsp>
(seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
16:02
<Enslaver>
!seen waldo
16:02
<ltsp>
I have not seen waldo.
16:02
<Enslaver>
Ha, me either
16:03
<jammcq>
keep in mind, it's like 5am in hawaii where Warren is
16:03
<Enslaver>
Linux people don't sleep
16:04
BTW jim, i could use your help with this dracut module
16:05
<jammcq>
i've never seen dracut
16:05
<Enslaver>
i've been looking at some code you did back a long time ago
16:05
<jammcq>
so I dunno how much help i'd be
16:05
<Enslaver>
# disklessrc file for initrd (Initial Ram Disk)
16:05
# Taken in part from James A. McQuillan <jam@McQuil.Com> linuxrc for LTSP
16:05
<jammcq>
heh
16:06
<Enslaver>
You might be some help :)
16:06
<jammcq>
I might be of some help, but my stuff has been so changed over the years, I prolly won't recognize it
16:07
<Enslaver>
Well i've been working on the dracut module to incorporate unionfs into the initramfs, problem is i've been having some major performance issues with it
16:07
You might know a way to better optimize the overlay
16:08
<jammcq>
when I was doing that type of development, we weren't using any overlay filesystems. I'd just create a ramfs for /tmp and mount that.
16:08
but I really like the idea of making all of / writeable
16:08
that solves a number of problems that I ran into
16:09
I didn't even have bind mounts back then
16:09
<Enslaver>
well thats interesting, looking at my machine again the performance is fine.
16:10
The way i'm doing the overlay is i make 1 directory a tmpfs filesystem (COW) and the other is the chroot RO nfs (chroot-ro)
16:12
then i'm doing a 'union' of those 2 directories into a 3rd one (/sysroot) and then dracut takes care of the root swap
16:13
so all changes write out to cow, chroot-ro stays ro and /sysroot is (rw), issue before was the server cpu was going bonkers, do you know of any way to help the per formance for that situation?
16:13
<jammcq>
I saw ogra's comments about using fuse modules
16:14
are you doing this in user space or kernel space?
16:14
<Enslaver>
user space
16:15
my next option is to go to aufs with a custom kernel
16:15
or sfs as warren mentioned
16:16
<jammcq>
dunno what sfs is
16:16
<Enslaver>
but i think thats fuse based also
16:16
sfs = SwitchFS
16:16anunnaki has left IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net, Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
16:16
<jammcq>
the problem with userspace is there's too much context switching
16:17
so the cpu is busy doing that all the time
16:17
the vfs layer is kernel space, then you throw a big layer in there that's userspace, it's switching back and forth too much
16:19alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg)
16:20
<Enslaver>
I really am hoping for a solution that is both portable across distro's and in kernel space with the flexibility of something like zfs or btrfs.
16:21
I wonder if the new 3.6 kernel offers anything worthwhile
16:22viggy_prabhu has joined IRC (viggy_prabhu!~viggy@117.192.96.228)
16:26anunnaki has joined IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
16:28meamy has left IRC (meamy!~hannes@pd95cdee4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de, Remote host closed the connection)
16:32
<alkisg>
One portable solution is to use nbd-server -c, copy on write :) But it's not very flexible...
16:37khildin has left IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip-80-236-222-28.dsl.scarlet.be, Quit: I'm gone, bye bye)
16:41dobber has left IRC (dobber!~dobber@89.190.199.210, Remote host closed the connection)
16:47
<ogra_>
or just default to nfs ;)
16:47
its not that there wouldnt be code for that already
16:55
<alkisg>
NFS copy on write?
16:55
Or do you mean overlayfs? Sure, once that's portable across distros...
16:56
Maybe with the "read only root to /usr" move, it'll be easy to support netbooting without writeable /
16:57Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955
16:58
<ogra_>
yeah, i actually meant nfs + overlay
17:00
theoretically thopugh you should be able to just mount various dirs in tmpfses and have some copying and bind mounting mechanics to get around the need for any union at all
17:00
<alkisg>
The problem with nfs is that it's much slower than e.g. squashfs + nbd (as you already know)
17:00
And even with compressed btrfs, compression doesn't help, as it's uncompressed before sent over the network
17:00
<ogra_>
your /proc/mounts would become a mess indeed :)
17:01
nfs flies compared to any of the fuse implementations
17:01
<alkisg>
bindfs is many many times faster than nfs
17:01
So I don't think it's a problem with fuse
17:02
But a problem with each implementation for itself
17:02
<ogra_>
the initial LTSP5 implementation didnt use any unionfs stuff at all
17:02
(the prototype mdz wrote, on which i based all my work)
17:02
<alkisg>
It used bind mounts?
17:02
<ogra_>
it is possible but boots rather slow due to all the setup it has to do
17:03
it used a tmpfs, bind mounts and links, yeah
17:03
<alkisg>
We still supported that until about a year ago, although untested
17:03* jammcq remembers the slow boot
17:03Gremble has joined IRC (Gremble!~Ben@cpc35-aztw23-2-0-cust207.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
17:03
<alkisg>
But it had a significant overhead on which files/dirs would be writeable
17:03
(writing them all down in the code, I mean)
17:03
<ogra_>
i still admire the beauty and simpleness of that initial design
17:04
<alkisg>
On a typical boot, more than 100 files get modified
17:04
<ogra_>
we only booted an Xserver and DM ...
17:04
it had no features at all
17:04
<alkisg>
So that bind-mounts method caused numerous errors, even if booting continued after that
17:04
<ogra_>
with that it was like 50 files or so it had to move around
17:04
<alkisg>
And I'm betting some of the slow down was due to the errors, not the bind-mounts overhead
17:05
And now with fat clients that number arises a lot
17:05
<ogra_>
it had no bugs back then :)
17:05
<jammcq>
heh, it just wasn't finished :)
17:05* alkisg tested bind-mounts about 2 years ago
17:05
<ogra_>
the environmental code changed a lot over the years
17:05
and yeah, it was never really finished
17:05
<alkisg>
Many files were missing from the writeable list
17:05
<ogra_>
yeah, nobody cared for it
17:06
still it was a beautiful design
17:06* alkisg prefers the simplicity of /proc/mounts with a writeable cow / ....
17:06
<ogra_>
sure, but you depend on someone maintaining the kernel patch for it
17:07
<alkisg>
I'm just depending on _any_ copy on write method being available
17:07
More than 5 are available for ubuntu now...
17:07
<ogra_>
you are just lucky that ubuntu livefses use the same setup and thus you can rely on union mounting to always be supported
17:07
well, usable cow methods ..
17:07
i dont count the fuse ones here
17:07
and in the kernel there is exactly one
17:08
which causes the kernel team a lot of grief every release
17:08
<alkisg>
Aufs is still available: /lib/modules/3.2.0-37-generic-pae/kernel/ubuntu/aufs/aufs.ko
17:08
overlayfs too, nbd-server -c too...
17:08
<ogra_>
oh, i wasnt aware we kept overlay, i thought it was dropped
17:09
<alkisg>
That's the new one that replaced aufs
17:09
<ogra_>
then the other way round :)
17:10
i'm surprised the kernel team still maintains both, is that in raring ?
17:10
<alkisg>
precise
17:11
<ogra_>
ah, old crap :P
17:11
who uses that anyway
17:11* alkisg thought that ubuntu will only ship lts releases from 14.04 on :D
17:11
<ogra_>
we'll see :)
17:12
the infrastructure isnt there yet ...
17:12
but it is being worked on
17:17
<Enslaver>
aufs looks doable
17:33sbalneav has left IRC (sbalneav!~sbalneav@mail.legalaid.mb.ca, Remote host closed the connection)
17:41mikkel has joined IRC (mikkel!~mikkel@80-71-132-15.u.parknet.dk)
17:46
<Enslaver>
ugh this is driving me nuts, dracut won't run my script. I can run it from rdshell fine, it gets put in the correct mount directory, permissions are good, the hook is there. but won't run, bla
17:53yalu has left IRC (yalu!~yalu@197.185-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
17:55Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
17:56yalu has joined IRC (yalu!~yalu@91.176.210.82)
18:03yalu has left IRC (yalu!~yalu@91.176.210.82, Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
18:04yalu has joined IRC (yalu!~yalu@204.111-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
18:13anunnaki has left IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net, Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
18:15anunnaki has joined IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
18:23
<jammcq>
Enslaver: i've never played with dracut, but I'm looking at the wiki page and I'd check that the script ends with '.sh' and starts with a 2-digit number
18:24viggy_prabhu has left IRC (viggy_prabhu!~viggy@117.192.96.228, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
18:27sbalneav has joined IRC (sbalneav!~sbalneav@mail.legalaid.mb.ca)
18:29
<Enslaver>
the script ends in .sh but no number in front, and looking at the others they don't have numbers either
18:30
I'm wondering if there isn't some kind of argument that needs to be passed to call it
18:35yalu has left IRC (yalu!~yalu@204.111-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
18:36yalu has joined IRC (yalu!~yalu@109.134.134.159)
18:37viggy_prabhu has joined IRC (viggy_prabhu!~viggy@117.192.96.228)
18:50Phantomas has left IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas)
18:55JuJuBee has joined IRC (JuJuBee!~mike_knic@24.148.112.102)
18:58
<JuJuBee>
Could I install virtualbox and a windows vm into an image to use with fat clients? or is that too much?
18:59
<alkisg>
It runs fine, just needs 256 extra ram
18:59
And 10% extra cpu
18:59
So e.g. with 768 client RAM you can run an XP VM fine
18:59
<Enslaver>
Check out winPE
19:00
<alkisg>
You can also use the same VM from many clients
19:01
Either with nbd-server -c, or with nfs/sshfs + snapshot
19:03
<JuJuBee>
alkisg: so the other option would be to have a vm for each user?
19:03
<alkisg>
That works too, we've tested up to 11 VMs
19:03
<JuJuBee>
Which is the simpler implementation?
19:05
Disc space is not an issue on the server
19:05
<alkisg>
1 VM is much simpler for maintainance
19:07
<JuJuBee>
So the 1 vm would be located in the image?
19:08
<alkisg>
No, it's user data, it belongs somewhere under /home
19:08
And that way you can also modify it without re-running ltsp-update-image
19:08
An alternative is to publish it with nbd-server
19:09
That way it's much faster than sshfs
19:09
And then tell vbox to use /dev/nbd2 on the client
19:12
<JuJuBee>
OK. I don't know much about nbd-server so I will have to do some reading.
19:14
As for the nfs/sshfs + snapshots are you saying have a single vm file in /home/VMs (or whatever) and tell the users to create a snapshot and save snapshots in ~/vbox (or wherever)?
19:15
<alkisg>
Yes, but you should use an automated script for that, not "tell the users"...
19:15
vbox also supports shared folders + a gina authentication method
19:15
So you can integrate the linux accounts + homes with the windows accounts + homes
19:16
Or you could use samba 4 as a pdc, whatever you like
19:16
<JuJuBee>
Only have 1 app that requires windows and only once in a while, so don't even need user accounts per se on win.
19:17
<alkisg>
And that app doesn't run under wine?
19:17
<JuJuBee>
Haven't tried in a few years, but it didn't
19:17
<alkisg>
It would probably be easier to make it run on wine, if it's only 1 app
19:18
<JuJuBee>
Maybe I will give it another try
19:23viggy_prabhu has left IRC (viggy_prabhu!~viggy@117.192.96.228, Quit: Ex-Chat)
19:38
<JuJuBee>
Just tried installing under wine and it crashes on launch... :(
19:45
<||cw>
wine can be tweaked a lot
19:45
an often needs to be
19:53Gremble has left IRC (Gremble!~Ben@cpc35-aztw23-2-0-cust207.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com, Quit: I Leave)
20:02
<warren>
Enslaver: please try to avoid solutions that require you to maintain a totally custom kernel
20:02
Enslaver: that shoots down one of our arguments of getting the custom kernel into EPEL, as I used to be able to argue that the source is a "mere copy" of RHEL6 with a different config file.
20:02
Enslaver: EPEL6 is already a security maintenance burden
20:03
Enslaver: yes, sfs appears to be yet another fuse-based overlay, but it claims to be really fast, so it might be worth try.
20:03
Enslaver: I suspect unionfs-fuse is slow not primarily because of fuse, but it just isn't optimized.
20:05
Enslaver: and while going to the latest upstream kernel may make it easier to maintain, it also is likely to break compatibility with EL-6 userspace that remains static.
20:05
<Enslaver>
but to be able to support nbd we need a custom config regardless
20:06
<warren>
Enslaver: custom config isn't a maintenance burden
20:06
shipping non-upstream kernel drivers is
20:06
<Enslaver>
then our options are wait for a kernel based overlay fs or use unionfs
20:07
which union isn't turning out that badly, its actually better with this kernel
20:07
<warren>
tried sfs?
20:08
i'm curious how much faster it is
20:08
<Enslaver>
not yet, its on my list as soon as i figure out this koji thing
20:08
my kernel compiles keep getting canceled
20:09
<warren>
give me a koji URL to the build ID
20:11
<Enslaver>
4936712
20:12
might be something I'm doing wrong, I'm still reading docs on how to use
20:12
koji build --scratch dist-6E-epel kernel-2.6.32-279.el6.thinclient.src.rpm is what i'm running
20:13
<warren>
hmm, I dunno
20:13
I can't find anything by 4936712. can you give me the URL it spits out?
20:14
<Enslaver>
I didn't see a url from the output
20:15
here's what i pull up under my name in the system:
20:15
https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=4936683
20:15
ah crap i didn't get the patch removed
20:16
<warren>
http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/6684/4936684/build.log
20:17
<Enslaver>
yah lemme get the right src up and i'll paste ya the url
20:18
<warren>
Enslaver: so i was correct, it wasn't the readonly filesystem that caused the x86_64 X failure
20:18
it was a kernel or X issue
20:18
?
20:19Phantomas has joined IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas)
20:19
<Enslaver>
The X issue isn't fixed
20:20JuJuBee has left IRC (JuJuBee!~mike_knic@24.148.112.102)
20:20
<Enslaver>
yeah i didn't figure it was the ro filesystem, i had the nfs mounted rw for testing and it was occurring then
20:22
ldm segfaults with no descriptive error, i've traced it down to what i thought was a prefdm issue
20:23
i've gone so far as to completely wipe my x86_64 chroot and start over thinking i missed something
20:23
<warren>
works on i686 but not x86_64
20:23
<Enslaver>
correct
20:23
<warren>
suggests a path issue, since other distros lack our multilib layout
20:24
<Enslaver>
I have set -x on almost all the scripts currently, logging their output, nothing really sticks out.
20:25
I think it might be related to upstart
20:27ltspuser_71 has joined IRC (ltspuser_71!40866104@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.134.97.4)
20:27ltspuser_71 is now known as bantarr
20:28
<bantarr>
Hello, I was checking with this IRC channel to ask if anyone has successfully integrated their LTSP server with a samba4 domain controller to authenticate user logins on a thin client
20:29
I got my server to join, but cannot login with a domain user. My samba4 is set to use internal DNS
20:32komunista has left IRC (komunista!~slavko@adsl-195-168-244-224.dynamic.nextra.sk, Quit: Leaving.)
20:38
<bantarr>
Also, I can use kinit administrator@domain and that works
20:42
but when I try to ssh to it (even ssh to localhost) using a domain user like: ssh 'domain/username'@localhost it keeps rejecting password
20:53
<warren>
Enslaver: oops
20:53
Enslaver: high performance is an "upcoming" feature of sfs
20:53
Enslaver: meaning it might not be possible =)
20:53
<Enslaver>
:(
20:53
You would think they would design the fs with that in mind
20:54
i'm curious to test unionfs on nbd, the hangup might be due to nfs
21:21bantarr has left IRC (bantarr!40866104@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.134.97.4, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
21:27anunnaki has left IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
21:29komunista has joined IRC (komunista!~slavko@adsl-195-168-244-224.dynamic.nextra.sk)
21:30anunnaki has joined IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
21:34
<warren>
Enslaver: software plans are aspirational
21:34
Enslaver: I have planned features on k12linux.org that are 4 years late now
21:39
Enslaver: how slow exactly did unionfs-fuse make it?
21:39
<Enslaver>
the only major slowdown was in the boot process
21:39mealstrom has left IRC (mealstrom!~mealstrom@46.63.71.254, Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
21:43alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Quit: Leaving.)
21:46Phantomas has left IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas)
21:59Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955
22:22spectra has left IRC (spectra!~spectra@debian/developer/spectra, Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
22:27Phantomas has joined IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas)
22:28mikkel has left IRC (mikkel!~mikkel@80-71-132-15.u.parknet.dk, Quit: Leaving)
22:28spectra has joined IRC (spectra!~spectra@debian/developer/spectra)
22:30komunista has left IRC (komunista!~slavko@adsl-195-168-244-224.dynamic.nextra.sk, Quit: Leaving.)
22:33highvoltage has left IRC (highvoltage!~highvolta@ubuntu/member/highvoltage, Read error: Operation timed out)
22:35anunnaki has left IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net, Remote host closed the connection)
22:39anunnaki has joined IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
22:40dead_inside has left IRC (dead_inside!~dead_insi@76.75.3.174, Read error: Operation timed out)
22:46anunnaki has left IRC (anunnaki!~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net, Remote host closed the connection)
22:53JuJuBee has joined IRC (JuJuBee!~mike_knic@24.105.231.111)
23:12JuJuBee has left IRC (JuJuBee!~mike_knic@24.105.231.111)
23:44Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
23:50lmds_ has left IRC (lmds_!~lmds@tui.pi-et-ro.net, Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
23:52xet7 has joined IRC (xet7!~xet7@a91-156-247-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi)