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Hello, I'm having a bit of trouble with local printing
(it just wont work)
if anyody lives in here, maybe you could help me?
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dorphalsig: try to describe your problem, and wait a while, and people will respond if they can
explain your setup, what OS is installed, version of ltsp...
vagrantc: I'm on debian 6 (squeeze), running the stable ltsp build, 5.2.4
trying to connet a USB HP LJ 1300 printer
and I can't print
I mean I've added it to CUPS
I know the client recognizes it (because I have /deb/usb/lp0)
but I cant print
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Chan..How are you doing
I am having problem with client login in ubuntu clusters
can you tell ,me how can i resolve it
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I am having problem with client login in ubuntu clusters
can you tell ,me how can i resolve it
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hey I faciung problem with nbd and error is unregistered device at major 43
please help me me out in this
teacher: γράψε: /j #ts.sch.gr
Για να έρθεις στο ελληνικό κανάλι υποστήριξης
(εδώ είναι το αγγλικό)
I am trying to connect from my thin client agter looking in the the log nbd from server it is givng me this mesage
|10:02||teacher is now known as dorita|
wow i think my unionfs overlay inside my initramfs i wrote into dracut actually might work
its just slow
r u facing proble with dracut
it is nothing but restart ur nfs
and see it will work for sure
I haven't gotten an error yet
I'm a little concerned about how the cow file system writes/rewrites its inodes
what is cow i also noticed that in edubuntu
copy on write
its also a mammal that makes a moo noise.
btw your error with the NBD has to due to the NBD kernel module not being loaded, 43 is NBD's major device number
/dev/nbd0 is major 43 which is a block device created by the kernel or kernel module
try running modprobe nbd
woot, my sys root is now rw :)
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dorita: /j #ts.sch.gr
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Enslaver: i see you wrote a dracut unionfs module :)
be happy to test that this weekend
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well, its in the process, it works when called from rdshell
for some reason it won't when ran all the way through
nm i think i just figured it out
Enslaver: i'm doing a commit for the NBD mount this weekend, or a commit request
so the named nbd exports are more robust
also, i remember i had some questions about the spec filew you pastebinned
but when i looked again, it was already gone
i believe its still on my launched trunk
i'd like to see the debian package config so i can double check mine with it
knipwim: you any good with dracut?
This is my first time trying to code for it and I'm hitting a snag.
Enslaver: i've looked at it for the nbd mount
and tried an aufs plugin
some time ago
Hi everybody! I'm using Edubuntu 12.04LTS with ltsp-server 5.3.7-0ubuntu2.3. Days ago Alksig pointend mi out that it's a bit an old version of LTSP. Does exist now a way to upgrade via PPA/backports?
so i have my unionfs module directory, 3 scripts, install, check and unionfsroot which does the work
i install unionfsroot to /sbin in the initramfs but how do i tell it to run?
inst "$moddir/unionfsroot" "/sbin/unionfsroot"
inst_hook cmdline 90 "$moddir/unionfsroot"
something like that?
really it just needs to run late in the pre-pivot stage
omg unionfs is a cpu hog
dievel: is that the case with ubuntu server and debian chroot?
Enslaver, unionfs as the kernel hack or unionfs as the fuse filesystem ?
the latter is unusably slow (we did some tests in ubuntu before going to aufs)
well the nice thing about unionfs-fuse is that i can run it in userspace and not rely on a custom kernel, although its probably what i'm gonna have to do anyway
|12:26||* ogra_ would suggest some other overlay method|
well, the prob with userspace is that it is another extra layer that makes everything slow
like what? dmsquash-live?
no way around that, if you want it at a usable spped you have to use kernel implementations (unionfs, aufs overlayfs)
ogra_: does that work on chunks of files, or on complete files? I.e. if I want to modify 1 byte of a .dvd file (4 Gb), will that need 4 Gb tmpfs?
i think so
now if unionfs worked at the block level
i'm not the one who actively played with the code, but i helped testing etc
If it worked at file + chunk level, it would be much more efficient...
npone of the fuse variants out there are usable for a rootfs
Isn't clickfs fuse based?
What about using ZFS like sun's VDI?
dunno, does that support union ? (and also is there any sane kernel patch)
It supports union if its run at the block level i believe
which pretty much eliminates union all together
playing with this unionfs it might not be so bad
It's very customizable
try it, but in any case you will need kernel patches
ZFS isnt in any distro kernel i know
yah i have my kernel compile running now :(
i thought it was in 2.6.28+ ?
I might be thinking of fuse
I've been reading up on zfsonlinux, looks promising, think i'll make my next kernel include aufs, zfs, nbd and some other fun stuff
Is there any advantage to zfs over e.g. btrfs?
|12:34||* alkisg can't wait for btrfs to be stable, its snapshots will make ltsp-pnp instant|
doesn't suse use btrfs?
I don't think any distro ships it as the default
that would be brave
its far from being done
(...and file-based compression will make squashfs unneeded)
I don't think it will be in fc19 either
looks like dracut is ready for it
Most distros support it, but the filesystem itself isn't ready
someone join #btrfs and tell them i said to hurry
They'll probably reply "send money and we'll hurry" :)
i'll remind them I'm not obama
ltsp-bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
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alkisg: sorry, I was away from computer. Nope, I have a normal edubuntu installation with a i386 chroot environment, coming from the installation. I had some issue with epoptes, because in the image was not presente the epoptes client.
Helping me, you noticed that the LTSP version in edubuntu 12.04LTS, from repos, was quite old and missing some nice feature.
So I was guessing If i could upgrade the packages without messing up the whole server.
fedora 18 sort of uses btrfs by default
Enslaver: we can't ship kernel-based zfs in fedora or epel
Enslaver: incompatible license
Enslaver: you could potentially patch unionfs or aufs into your thinclient-only kernel, but that will be a maintenance burden entirely on you.
Enslaver: for years Valerie Aurora has been talking about an upstream union solution
I wonder what happened to that
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Enslaver: sorry to hear that fuse unionfs is too slo
Enslaver: latest news I can fid
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Enslaver: err, is it measurably slower?
Enslaver: https://lwn.net/Articles/482779/ Feb 2012 on union mount
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Enslaver: whatever this is claims to be a FAST fuse based unionfs
Enslaver: might be worth comparing
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sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm back, was warren here?
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warren was last seen in #ltsp 1 hour, 1 minute, and 13 seconds ago: <warren> Enslaver: might be worth comparing
Enslaver, http://irclogs.ltsp.org/ ;-)
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!seen my brain
(seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
I have not seen waldo.
Ha, me either
keep in mind, it's like 5am in hawaii where Warren is
Linux people don't sleep
BTW jim, i could use your help with this dracut module
i've never seen dracut
i've been looking at some code you did back a long time ago
so I dunno how much help i'd be
# disklessrc file for initrd (Initial Ram Disk)
# Taken in part from James A. McQuillan <jam@McQuil.Com> linuxrc for LTSP
You might be some help :)
I might be of some help, but my stuff has been so changed over the years, I prolly won't recognize it
Well i've been working on the dracut module to incorporate unionfs into the initramfs, problem is i've been having some major performance issues with it
You might know a way to better optimize the overlay
when I was doing that type of development, we weren't using any overlay filesystems. I'd just create a ramfs for /tmp and mount that.
but I really like the idea of making all of / writeable
that solves a number of problems that I ran into
I didn't even have bind mounts back then
well thats interesting, looking at my machine again the performance is fine.
The way i'm doing the overlay is i make 1 directory a tmpfs filesystem (COW) and the other is the chroot RO nfs (chroot-ro)
then i'm doing a 'union' of those 2 directories into a 3rd one (/sysroot) and then dracut takes care of the root swap
so all changes write out to cow, chroot-ro stays ro and /sysroot is (rw), issue before was the server cpu was going bonkers, do you know of any way to help the per formance for that situation?
I saw ogra's comments about using fuse modules
are you doing this in user space or kernel space?
my next option is to go to aufs with a custom kernel
or sfs as warren mentioned
dunno what sfs is
but i think thats fuse based also
sfs = SwitchFS
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the problem with userspace is there's too much context switching
so the cpu is busy doing that all the time
the vfs layer is kernel space, then you throw a big layer in there that's userspace, it's switching back and forth too much
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I really am hoping for a solution that is both portable across distro's and in kernel space with the flexibility of something like zfs or btrfs.
I wonder if the new 3.6 kernel offers anything worthwhile
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One portable solution is to use nbd-server -c, copy on write :) But it's not very flexible...
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or just default to nfs ;)
its not that there wouldnt be code for that already
NFS copy on write?
Or do you mean overlayfs? Sure, once that's portable across distros...
Maybe with the "read only root to /usr" move, it'll be easy to support netbooting without writeable /
|16:57||Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955|
yeah, i actually meant nfs + overlay
theoretically thopugh you should be able to just mount various dirs in tmpfses and have some copying and bind mounting mechanics to get around the need for any union at all
The problem with nfs is that it's much slower than e.g. squashfs + nbd (as you already know)
And even with compressed btrfs, compression doesn't help, as it's uncompressed before sent over the network
your /proc/mounts would become a mess indeed :)
nfs flies compared to any of the fuse implementations
bindfs is many many times faster than nfs
So I don't think it's a problem with fuse
But a problem with each implementation for itself
the initial LTSP5 implementation didnt use any unionfs stuff at all
(the prototype mdz wrote, on which i based all my work)
It used bind mounts?
it is possible but boots rather slow due to all the setup it has to do
it used a tmpfs, bind mounts and links, yeah
We still supported that until about a year ago, although untested
|17:03||* jammcq remembers the slow boot|
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But it had a significant overhead on which files/dirs would be writeable
(writing them all down in the code, I mean)
i still admire the beauty and simpleness of that initial design
On a typical boot, more than 100 files get modified
we only booted an Xserver and DM ...
it had no features at all
So that bind-mounts method caused numerous errors, even if booting continued after that
with that it was like 50 files or so it had to move around
And I'm betting some of the slow down was due to the errors, not the bind-mounts overhead
And now with fat clients that number arises a lot
it had no bugs back then :)
heh, it just wasn't finished :)
|17:05||* alkisg tested bind-mounts about 2 years ago|
the environmental code changed a lot over the years
and yeah, it was never really finished
Many files were missing from the writeable list
yeah, nobody cared for it
still it was a beautiful design
|17:06||* alkisg prefers the simplicity of /proc/mounts with a writeable cow / ....|
sure, but you depend on someone maintaining the kernel patch for it
I'm just depending on _any_ copy on write method being available
More than 5 are available for ubuntu now...
you are just lucky that ubuntu livefses use the same setup and thus you can rely on union mounting to always be supported
well, usable cow methods ..
i dont count the fuse ones here
and in the kernel there is exactly one
which causes the kernel team a lot of grief every release
Aufs is still available: /lib/modules/3.2.0-37-generic-pae/kernel/ubuntu/aufs/aufs.ko
overlayfs too, nbd-server -c too...
oh, i wasnt aware we kept overlay, i thought it was dropped
That's the new one that replaced aufs
then the other way round :)
i'm surprised the kernel team still maintains both, is that in raring ?
ah, old crap :P
who uses that anyway
|17:11||* alkisg thought that ubuntu will only ship lts releases from 14.04 on :D|
we'll see :)
the infrastructure isnt there yet ...
but it is being worked on
aufs looks doable
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ugh this is driving me nuts, dracut won't run my script. I can run it from rdshell fine, it gets put in the correct mount directory, permissions are good, the hook is there. but won't run, bla
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Enslaver: i've never played with dracut, but I'm looking at the wiki page and I'd check that the script ends with '.sh' and starts with a 2-digit number
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the script ends in .sh but no number in front, and looking at the others they don't have numbers either
I'm wondering if there isn't some kind of argument that needs to be passed to call it
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Could I install virtualbox and a windows vm into an image to use with fat clients? or is that too much?
It runs fine, just needs 256 extra ram
And 10% extra cpu
So e.g. with 768 client RAM you can run an XP VM fine
Check out winPE
You can also use the same VM from many clients
Either with nbd-server -c, or with nfs/sshfs + snapshot
alkisg: so the other option would be to have a vm for each user?
That works too, we've tested up to 11 VMs
Which is the simpler implementation?
Disc space is not an issue on the server
1 VM is much simpler for maintainance
So the 1 vm would be located in the image?
No, it's user data, it belongs somewhere under /home
And that way you can also modify it without re-running ltsp-update-image
An alternative is to publish it with nbd-server
That way it's much faster than sshfs
And then tell vbox to use /dev/nbd2 on the client
OK. I don't know much about nbd-server so I will have to do some reading.
As for the nfs/sshfs + snapshots are you saying have a single vm file in /home/VMs (or whatever) and tell the users to create a snapshot and save snapshots in ~/vbox (or wherever)?
Yes, but you should use an automated script for that, not "tell the users"...
vbox also supports shared folders + a gina authentication method
So you can integrate the linux accounts + homes with the windows accounts + homes
Or you could use samba 4 as a pdc, whatever you like
Only have 1 app that requires windows and only once in a while, so don't even need user accounts per se on win.
And that app doesn't run under wine?
Haven't tried in a few years, but it didn't
It would probably be easier to make it run on wine, if it's only 1 app
Maybe I will give it another try
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Just tried installing under wine and it crashes on launch... :(
wine can be tweaked a lot
an often needs to be
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Enslaver: please try to avoid solutions that require you to maintain a totally custom kernel
Enslaver: that shoots down one of our arguments of getting the custom kernel into EPEL, as I used to be able to argue that the source is a "mere copy" of RHEL6 with a different config file.
Enslaver: EPEL6 is already a security maintenance burden
Enslaver: yes, sfs appears to be yet another fuse-based overlay, but it claims to be really fast, so it might be worth try.
Enslaver: I suspect unionfs-fuse is slow not primarily because of fuse, but it just isn't optimized.
Enslaver: and while going to the latest upstream kernel may make it easier to maintain, it also is likely to break compatibility with EL-6 userspace that remains static.
but to be able to support nbd we need a custom config regardless
Enslaver: custom config isn't a maintenance burden
shipping non-upstream kernel drivers is
then our options are wait for a kernel based overlay fs or use unionfs
which union isn't turning out that badly, its actually better with this kernel
i'm curious how much faster it is
not yet, its on my list as soon as i figure out this koji thing
my kernel compiles keep getting canceled
give me a koji URL to the build ID
might be something I'm doing wrong, I'm still reading docs on how to use
koji build --scratch dist-6E-epel kernel-2.6.32-279.el6.thinclient.src.rpm is what i'm running
hmm, I dunno
I can't find anything by 4936712. can you give me the URL it spits out?
I didn't see a url from the output
here's what i pull up under my name in the system:
ah crap i didn't get the patch removed
yah lemme get the right src up and i'll paste ya the url
Enslaver: so i was correct, it wasn't the readonly filesystem that caused the x86_64 X failure
it was a kernel or X issue
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The X issue isn't fixed
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yeah i didn't figure it was the ro filesystem, i had the nfs mounted rw for testing and it was occurring then
ldm segfaults with no descriptive error, i've traced it down to what i thought was a prefdm issue
i've gone so far as to completely wipe my x86_64 chroot and start over thinking i missed something
works on i686 but not x86_64
suggests a path issue, since other distros lack our multilib layout
I have set -x on almost all the scripts currently, logging their output, nothing really sticks out.
I think it might be related to upstart
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Hello, I was checking with this IRC channel to ask if anyone has successfully integrated their LTSP server with a samba4 domain controller to authenticate user logins on a thin client
I got my server to join, but cannot login with a domain user. My samba4 is set to use internal DNS
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Also, I can use kinit administrator@domain and that works
but when I try to ssh to it (even ssh to localhost) using a domain user like: ssh 'domain/username'@localhost it keeps rejecting password
Enslaver: high performance is an "upcoming" feature of sfs
Enslaver: meaning it might not be possible =)
You would think they would design the fs with that in mind
i'm curious to test unionfs on nbd, the hangup might be due to nfs
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Enslaver: software plans are aspirational
Enslaver: I have planned features on k12linux.org that are 4 years late now
Enslaver: how slow exactly did unionfs-fuse make it?
the only major slowdown was in the boot process
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