IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 October 2008   (all times are UTC)

00:11
<cyberorg>
ogra, the patch is not committed by anyone from suse, it was sent on the ML for review with the information that we have that patch in our packages
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00:16
<cyberorg>
the first patch sent by lejo was http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=122023751719521&w=2
00:17
improvement by Ryan52 http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=122024616714272&w=2
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00:21* Ryan52 asks the dumb question of the day. What problems did my patch cause?
00:41
<cyberorg>
Ryan52, nothing, it fixed our input field, but made ubuntu's quite jumpy :)
00:42
ogra, is pissed because he thinks it is some evil plan from novell to mess his ldm up :D
00:47
<Ryan52>
it seemed to not cause any problems on debian...
00:49* Ryan52 continues to not see jumpyness
00:54
<cyberorg>
Ryan52, works fine on suse too, haven't seen anyone from fedora complain either
00:55
<Ryan52>
maybe ubuntu and fedora and debian and gentoo and suse (and if somebody starts saying that suse is a fork or whatever, get over it) should all make their themes easily accessibly (preferably in the same place) so that code changes can be tested with them all...
01:06
<johnny>
Ryan52 that'd be too easy
01:06
lol
01:06
Ryan52, we don't even have a theme yet
01:06
<Ryan52>
heh. ya.
01:06
<johnny>
so no worries from us
01:07
what i'd like tho.. is to see the default theme cleaned up
01:07
so we can just focus on that
01:07
i don't think we plan on making one
01:07
if somebody does tho.. i'll let you know :)
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01:09
<cyberorg>
Ryan52, isn't that exactly a point of posting patch on the dev ML?
01:15
<Ryan52>
yes, the place where it seemingly got ignored...
01:20* johnny == hungry
01:21
<johnny>
our store is currently closed.. but luckily i have keys.. :)
01:21
the benefits of collective ownership.. :)
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04:52
<ogra>
cyberorg, did i blame suse in any way ?
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04:54
<ogra>
all i'm upset about is that six themes broke for me two days before final release freeze in ubuntu so apparently the change wasnt tested carefully enough before being committed ... such changes should stay in a separate branch until they have been tested enough and the code is simply bad
04:54
<cyberorg>
was responding to "ogra> but breaking themes for 5 distros to make one work that refuses to go with the standard is just not nice"
04:55
didn't want to break anything, just that wide logo we used exposed this issue for us
04:55
<ogra>
right, and i'm fine if we get a fix for that
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04:55
<ogra>
but one that doesnt break it for anyone else
04:56
<cyberorg>
ogra, didnt know it ended upstream, that patch is applied to our package only, was posted on the ML so the problem can be found and solved if there was any
04:56
<ogra>
the current code should work with any centered logo, do you use yours non centered ?
04:57
<cyberorg>
ogra, logo is centered, it is just too wide
04:57
<ogra>
wider than the screen ?
04:57
<nubae>
cyberorg: I got ejabberd working, but still some weird stuff going on, connects sometimes to other clients for sharing activities, but most of the time it doesn'T
04:58
<cyberorg>
ogra, it is 1280x250 pixels
04:58
so in some cases it will be wider than screen
04:59
<ogra>
cyberorg, and you see the misplacement of the input field always or only on screens smaller than 1280 ?
05:00
<cyberorg>
ogra, it is always on right hand side of the screen
05:00
see the first patch, lejo commented just one line from greeter, that fixed it, but the label was not centered, Ryan52's patch fixed that as well
05:01
<ogra>
i think i have the proper fix, but no time to take care before friday
05:01
it will be exactly one line that needs to change
05:03
<cyberorg>
cool, no hurry for me, i can only test after beta3 is out, ldm does not launch at all, X -configure is broken on nvidia, aufs is missing nfs support and many other minor problems
05:04
nubae, it must work all the time, this is linux :)
05:06
<ogra>
cyberorg, i think the nv driver just gets a fix for that upstream
05:06
<nubae>
yeah its weird... trying to fix the problem, but running out of ideas... I'll write up how to get ejabberd working and maybe u can see if it works on suse
05:07
<cyberorg>
ogra, great, so at least one issue less to bother :)
05:07
nubae, sure
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05:17* nubae wonders if anything needs to be added to the client chroot for sharing, as telepathy presence server works over dbus
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05:23
<ogra>
oh
05:23* ogra just saw slashdot
05:23
<ogra>
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,24490953-15306,00.html
05:24
<nubae>
"like those packaged under Edubuntu."
05:24
wonder what that means
05:26
<ogra>
apparetnly that the au govt looked at edubuntu
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05:28
<nubae>
but they mention redhat
05:30
<ogra>
Q-FUNK, hey
05:31
nubae, the text mentions redhat, the politician mentioned edubuntu in a speech
05:42
<Q-FUNK>
hey :)
05:42
<ogra>
Q-FUNK, we're just looking at geode vs nsc in #ubuntu-mobile and i might tell lool rubbish :)
05:44
he wants to know a) how likely it is that we ever see geode based netbooks and b) whats the difference between nsc and geode, i couls need some help from someone with more knowledge :)
05:46
<nubae>
cyberorg: http://www.nubae.com/sugar-on-ltsp-ubuntu-intrepid-ibex
05:47* nubae has a feeling he needs Network Manager back to make the sharing work
05:47
<nubae>
ugh
05:48
<cyberorg>
nubae, thanks, bookmarked it, will test as soon as i can
05:48
<ogra>
olpc relies massively on NM
05:48
so probably their software as well
05:48
<nubae>
I know :-(
05:49
<ogra>
if you have cleanly uninstalled the pre-version it shoudnt do no harm to your setup now
05:49
just dont touch the config file
05:49
<nubae>
isnt there somewhere that shows how to properly set it up if you had /etc/network/interfaces method before?
05:50
<ogra>
it wont touch any static devices in /etc/network/interfaces
05:50
by default
05:50
<nubae>
ok, I'll give it a try...
05:52
<ogra>
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs doesnt have any bad NM bugs anymore that could affect you
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05:54
<nubae>
by default it says networking disabled
05:54
do i have to set it on managed mode for it to work... I assume sugar needs that
05:57
<ogra>
no
05:57
do touch the config
05:57
*dont
05:57
managed means it will mangle your /e/n/i
05:58
which is exactly what you dont want
05:58
/e/n/i should be handled by ifup/down as before
05:58
only non static devices should be handled by NM now
05:58
until ifup/down can be completely replaced
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06:30* ogra tags ldm
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06:38
<stgraber>
ogra: bug-fix only reverting the layout change ?
06:40
<ogra>
stgraber, yep
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06:49
<ogra>
stgraber, for localized console kbd i need to add console-screen.sh, console-setup and console-screen.kbd.sh to RCS_WHITELIST in 000-basic-configuration, mind if i just do that in the diff without pulling in a fresh upstream ?
06:50
(i'll push it upstream alongside, but dont think its worth a new upstream in ubuntu
06:50
)
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07:28
<ogra>
stgraber, is your presistend change in the upstream initscript ?
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07:30
<slap>
can someone tell me where I can find the translation files for GDM?
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07:42
<ogra>
in the gdm sourcepackage probably,
07:42* ogra has no real ide since ltsp doesnt use gdm
07:42* ogra is tagging ltsp-trunk
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08:08
<ogra>
stgraber, 5.1.29 uploaded
08:08
<stgraber>
ogra: cool, thanks
08:08
<ogra>
we should look pretty good now
08:08
the nbd_swap stuff is very odd, we urgently need to port that to hardy
08:09
the grep always matches "grep"
08:09
so you automatically get /dev/nbd15
08:09
and the quiting had a bashism
08:09
<nubae>
was that the culprit of all the 'slow' firefox and Ooo instances on ltsp?
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08:09
<ogra>
no idea
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08:10
<ogra>
i havent tested on hardy yet, i will do so after release
08:10
<jammcq>
good morning friends
08:10
<ogra>
to much intrepid release work on my plate t care for hardy now
08:10
but if i didnt add any regression it should look good now
08:10
i.e. releaseable
08:11
for jaunty i think i will put a week into writing a new ldm GUI with proper theme engine
08:11
so everyone will be happy
08:12
<stgraber>
would be great
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08:36
<monteslu>
flash10 linux is ready
08:37
looks like the freeze after 2 seconds is fixed
08:37
still crashes sometimes on nspluginwrapper
08:38
haven't tried it on ltsp yet
08:54
<nubae>
oli, I'm just adding this 2 instances thing of ssh to docus... really it can be turned into a patch too
08:54
mostly cping, seding and teeing
08:59
<ogra>
into a patch to what ?
09:02
<nubae>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DedicatedLTSPSSH
09:02
create new ltsp-ssh
09:02
and add relevant entries to config files + .pid
09:03
actually could be a plugin instead
09:05* ogra wonders why all this files are needed
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09:08
<nubae>
how would u envision doing it otherwise?
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09:10
<ogra>
i'm retty sure you could just have a script that seeds and exports SSHD_OPTS and calls the standard initrscript
09:10
<DawnLight>
hello. ubuntu hardy ltsp VOLUME=100 and alsamixer shows the volumes master and pcm at 81. help?
09:10
<ogra>
with probably a minor change to the initscript to accept a different pid file name
09:11
<nubae>
one ssh session serving both ports?
09:11
<ogra>
no
09:11
two daemons serving two ports but with a lot less changes
09:11
on e change to the ssh initscript that would have to go into the openssh package
09:12
<nubae>
not that many changes... just port and/or interface additions to extra configs, extra pid and extra default
09:12
<ogra>
and one wrapper script that calls the standard script but sets and exports SSHD_OPTS and points to a different pid file
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09:12
<DawnLight>
i see no mention on volume in the upstreamdocumentation
09:12
<nubae>
DawnLight: its set at that on purpose, so u dont blow up your speakers
09:13
<DawnLight>
nubae: i'd like to change that
09:13
can i set the volume?
09:13
<ogra>
nubae, anyway, nothing that matters atm and nothing i could work on a day before final freeze
09:14
<nubae>
yeah gotcha... just mentioning I put the online way into the docs
09:14
<ogra>
but there are way saner ways to use whats there already than to ship a sh*tload of new scripts and config files
09:14
<nubae>
shitload?... 4 :-)
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09:19
<DawnLight>
the clients won't mount usb HDD's with fat32 while they do mount usb sticks. help?
09:20
<wpgmb>
I have a dual nic Ubuntu 8.04 ltsp running. Clients can log in and access Internet. I would like to be able to ssh into client's /home from my system which is not part of the same subnet. I CAN ssh into the "gateway" nic, and from there jump to the "DHCP" nic. I have enable IP forwarding in /etc/sysctr.conf but it does not seem to work. What else do I need to do?
09:22
<nubae>
DawnLight: hdd access is turned off by default, the documentation tells u how to reenable it
09:32
<DawnLight>
ahuh
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09:43
<DawnLight>
i've just tried VOLUME=0 and it is still at 81 after reboot
09:45
<nubae>
ubuntu?
09:51
<DawnLight>
nubae: yes
09:51
hardy
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09:53
<DawnLight>
the hdd still doesn't mount
09:53
<nubae>
yeah the volume stuff is only active in intrepid I believe
09:54
but maybe u can enable hardy-updates in /etc/apt/sources.list
09:54
<DawnLight>
updates? or you mean backports
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09:55
<DawnLight>
so ok no volume control... not so bad for now
09:55
<nubae>
updates
09:56
<DawnLight>
but why won't the hdd work after i've added the udev rule line...
09:58
<nubae>
did u restart udev?
09:59
<DawnLight>
nubae: ahm... i rebuilt the image and rebooted expecting it to work. i didn't change it in the client
09:59
i can restart udev
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10:02
<nubae>
restart udev on the server
10:02
then restart the client again and try, should work
10:06
<DawnLight>
no. it's not mounting. the line i've added in the client's /etc/udev/rules.d/50-ltsp.rules is 'ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_TYPE}=="disk", ATTRS{removable}!="1", RUN+="ltspfs_entry add %k"', taken straight from the docs but... the client has no 'ltspfs_entry' command
10:13
<nubae>
in the rules file, there should be a line that looks exactly like tht one, but that has a # infront of it
10:13
take that out... and delete the one u added
10:13
not the line, just the #
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10:16
<sbalneav>
Looks like I got the boot last night at the netsplit
10:16
morning all
10:18
<DawnLight>
nubae: there isn't such a line. the only commented line is the first one, '# /etc/udev/rules.d/88-ltsp.rules'
10:18
<stgraber>
moin sbalneav
10:22
<nubae>
DawnLight: you're editing the wrong file
10:22
<DawnLight>
nubae: i am?
10:22
<nubae>
ltspfsd-rules
10:23
/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/udev/rules.d/50-ltspfsd.rules
10:23
no 88-ltsp.rules
10:23
<DawnLight>
nubae: 50-ltspfsd.rules is what i'm editing. i don't know why it has this line inside
10:24
<nubae>
me either... that seems wrong...
10:24
<DawnLight>
ahuh
10:25
but anyway maybe you give me the line there that you have
10:25
<nubae>
# internal hard drives: <--- That line should exist in there, and below is the line to change
10:25
<DawnLight>
that i'm supposed to have
10:25
i've nothing like this
10:25
i can paste it
10:25
or you can look in the ubuntu source
10:25
<nubae>
!pastebot
10:25
<ltspbot>
nubae: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
10:29
<ltsppbot>
Someone pasted "dawn@studenten-server:/opt/lts" (18 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/36
10:30
<DawnLight>
nubae: check it out
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10:38
<nubae>
DawnLight: well I'm not sure why your ltspfsd-rules looks so different
10:38
<DawnLight>
nubae: what, do you have the same version?
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10:44
<ltsppbot>
"DawnLight" pasted "debian ltspfsd.udev" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/37
10:44
<DawnLight>
nubae: i've just got the source for this package and this file and i'm looking... and i'm seeing this
10:45
<ltsppbot>
"DawnLight" pasted "the original udev?" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/38
10:45
<nubae>
yeah I'm suing intrepid
10:45
using
10:46
<ltsppbot>
"Nubae" pasted "Nubae ltspfsd-rules" (25 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/39
10:48
<DawnLight>
do you think this will work in hardy's udev?
10:52
<nubae>
no idea
10:54
<alkisg>
Guys, you need a 50-ltspfsd.rules from hardy?
10:55
<DawnLight>
no, thanks. i have that
10:55
<alkisg>
ok
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11:00
<nubae>
DawnLight: have u got locadev=True in lts.conf
11:00
might be that
11:00
should be on by default though
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11:01
<DawnLight>
i do have that
11:02
thanks
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12:52
<davidj>
bbl
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14:16
<nubae1>
hi Lns, johnny...
14:16
<Lns>
what's up nubae1
14:19nubae1 is now known as Nubae
14:19
<Nubae>
well, not that much, but I did manage to get ejabberd working with sugar so collaboration works over LTSP
14:19
!
14:20
that was a nice little bonus... had to compile ejabberd from source, but it works! All the neighbourhood stuff, collaborative apps work over LTSP
14:20
thats pretty huge in my mind...
14:20
<sbalneav>
hmmm
14:20
<Lns>
wow cool!
14:20
<sbalneav>
Hmmmmm
14:20
HMMMMM
14:20
<Lns>
I haven't messed with Sugar much but that sounds pretty need
14:21
<sbalneav>
Innnnntermolesting
14:21
<Lns>
s/need/neat
14:21
lol sbalneav
14:21
<sbalneav>
So, one of the problems we've had with LDM is the fact that the "kill -1 $PPID" is necessary
14:21
<ogra>
did you solve that ?
14:21
<sbalneav>
because otherwise, the Xsession script hangs, and we can't log out.
14:22
Not yet, but I've found a clue.
14:22* ogra decided today that he will write a new greeter for jaunty with theme engine
14:22
<Nubae>
yeah there is a currents sprint to make more collaborative apps that work on anything, not just sugar... that will be great for LTSP too
14:22
<sbalneav>
apparently, sshd will keep a job open "if it's still using stdin and stdout"
14:22
<ogra>
Nubae, did you ever try gobby ?
14:23
<Nubae>
yeah
14:23
its great
14:23
<ogra>
we use it with 100s of people during summits
14:23
<Nubae>
but there are so many games, etc that can use the same functionality
14:23
<sbalneav>
sooo, I'm wondering if this is as simple as (when we call Xsession)
14:23
<ogra>
with a huge server in the ubuntu datacenter
14:23
<sbalneav>
...... ; Xsession < /dev/null > /dev/null
14:23
<ogra>
oh, that might actually work
14:23
<Nubae>
how does the server work with multi sessions?
14:23
ejabberd is supposed to be able to work with 6000+ clients
14:23
cause of erlang...
14:23
<sbalneav>
then we could terminate the ssh session with the -O shutdown, and make the pam stuff work.
14:24
<ogra>
sbalneav, one big prob approacing us is that we actually need a session dbus n the client in the future
14:24
<sbalneav>
I'll try that toniught
14:24
<ogra>
the whole desktop will start switching away from bonobo to dbus
14:24
<sbalneav>
ogra: Well, the problem with that's gonna be: dbus is going to have to become a lot more "remote" aware
14:24
currently, it isn't
14:25
<ogra>
well, with the system dbus moving into the kernel such stuff can get risky
14:25
not sure how upstream thinks about remote connections to kernel threads :)
14:25
but yes, i will look into dbus over TCP or ssh tunnel in any case
14:25
<sbalneav>
It's almost like the upstream desktop guys WANT thin clients to die.
14:26
<ogra>
with stgraber taking over the ubuntu stuff i should be able to actually concentrate on upstream
14:26_UsUrPeR_ has joined #ltsp
14:26
<ogra>
at least thats my masterplan
14:27
<sbalneav>
It used to be so simple in the old days. Heck X was DESIGNED to work with remote displays. With all the HAL/DBus/etc crap that they're thowing at things these days, they're killing one of the most beautiful, elegant parts of X.
14:27
<Nubae>
SSH_OVERRIDE_PORT is still usable in LTSP 5?
14:27
<ogra>
its only dbus
14:27
Nubae, yes
14:27
<Nubae>
k good
14:27
<ogra>
i checked the source before mentioning it, its in ldm
14:27
<sbalneav>
ogra: Anyway, I'll test out that Xsesson /dev/null theory tonight.
14:28
<ogra>
sounds great
14:28
<Nubae>
did I find any other rogue lts variables?
14:28
<ogra>
though it wont make intepid
14:28
freeze is tomorrow
14:28
(likely in effect at 12:00 UTC tonight)
14:28
final freeze that is
14:28
but i think i got ltsp in pretty good shape
14:29
<sbalneav>
We could always do a patch afterwards though, right? This would fix a lot of "hung jobs" problems.
14:29
<ogra>
(some feedback from testers would be appreciated btw ... hint hint ... to anyone not being called scott)
14:29
<Nubae>
test what?
14:29
<ogra>
intrepid ltsp-5.1.29
14:29
<sbalneav>
Well, I need to do testing too. I'll get a box loaded tonight.
14:30
stgraber told you I got that crash bug in cdpinger fixed?
14:30
<Nubae>
asus eeepc doesnt have atl2 module built into initramfs
14:30
<sbalneav>
I think he squeaked it in under the wire
14:30
<ogra>
yeah, its in
14:30
even officially
14:30
<stgraber>
sbalneav: I merged and tagged a new ltspfs, it's in Intrepid
14:31
<ogra>
stgraber is doing a way better job with pushing through the paperwork than i did
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14:31
<stgraber>
ogra: I didn't need paperwork for this one, no FFe required for bugfix only :)
14:31
<sbalneav>
\o/ stgraber
14:31
<ogra>
thats why i want to do upstrem only in the future
14:31
<sbalneav>
heheh
14:31
we're less picky
14:31
<ogra>
yeah
14:31
<sbalneav>
"We're cheap AND easy!"
14:31
<ogra>
and i'm not bound to release cycles upstream
14:32
<stgraber>
ogra: and well, I'm paid for that, it helps :) I'd probably do a lot worse work if I had to do all the mobile things you do as well :)
14:32
<ogra>
i want to do the cool stuff finally, not run after releases all the time
14:32
that way i assume i'm way more effective
14:33
<sbalneav>
stgraber: I thought you were working for Francis? Are you working for Canonical now?
14:33
<stgraber>
sbalneav: I work for Revolution Linux
14:33
but I'm paid to work full time on LTSP and LTSP Cluster
14:33
and we use Ubuntu for all our current deployments
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14:33
<sbalneav>
Ah, ok
14:33
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i've actually been seeing the pam logout stuff kick in on debian lenny even with kill -1 $PPID ... but that still makes the rc.d/K* scripts not have an ssh session to connect to.
14:34
<sbalneav>
So RL is directly sponsoring Ubuntu development, nice.
14:34
<stgraber>
so, I should soon (let's hope) be able to upload directly to main and will then be able to do all: upstream + distro + plugin (ltsp-cluster) work
14:34
<vagrantc>
i know warren was still having the problem... but openssh 5.1 solved that issue for me...
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14:36* vagrantc apparently has a difficult time distinguishing between s??????? nicks.
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14:47
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Hey, I was sitting here thiking to myself "Man, I had a fun time in Portland, and I could sure go for some of that good coffee I had at that coffee house near Freegeek"
14:47
Could you fire up the star trek transporter you got there, and beam me over some? :)
14:48
I still haven't heard from anyone here in Wpg about a freegeek winnipeg.
14:48
<sad face>
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14:53
<Lns>
I FLIPPIN HATE WINDOWS!
14:53
ahem...sorry.
14:57
<johnny>
lemme know if you come to to baltimore sbalneav :)
14:58
<cliebow>
sbalneav let me know if you come to Maine ;-]
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15:00
<ltsppbot>
"Lns" pasted "lts.conf top-of-file notes - where did they go?" (4 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/40
15:01
<Lns>
Anyone know why this is missing from newer lts.confs (or are there none created by default?) in hardy?
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15:03
<johnny>
the doc location changed i know that
15:03
it's on the server not in the chroot
15:03
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: yeah, that's the way it goes with freegeek hopefuls sometimes ... a bit of energy and then that's it.
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15:04
<johnny>
it's alot of work
15:04
<vagrantc>
lots of false starts
15:04
<johnny>
if i thought i was gonna stay in baltimore longer, i'd start one here
15:04
not so much on the computer recycling right away tho.. that part is harder
15:04
first get interest in the community technology center aspect
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15:05
<vagrantc>
johnny: you have the right perspective... too many just think it's about playing with computers all the time.
15:06
<johnny>
PC hardware is megaultraboring
15:07
<sbalneav>
Hmmm, so I've been setting up a server box here. No X
15:07
So, between mutt for mail, screen and irssi for chat, and getting svgalib configured so that links2 -g works....
15:07* vagrantc would not restrict it to PC hardware
15:07
<johnny>
vagrantc, the mobile stuff is fun
15:08
i'd enjoy playing with a freerunner
15:08
<sbalneav>
Mayyyybe, I'll just give up all this Gui cr*p, and go back to the good old command line. I mean, at vga=791, what else do you need?
15:10
<Lns>
sbalneav: well, X11 was made so you could have multiple terminals open and visible... :p
15:10* vagrantc would need screen to be a little easier to use with multiple simultaneous frames
15:10
<vagrantc>
other than that, i'm pretty much there.
15:11
sbalneav: so the coffee is really that much better? :)
15:16
<johnny>
sbalneav, you can run xfce without X
15:16
just on the framebuffer
15:17
sbalneav, did youc atch my link about the new xprop related stuff for devices?
15:17
well .. i'll repaste it for the benefit of others
15:17
http://who-t.blogspot.com/2008/10/device-properties-have-landed.html
15:23
<sbalneav>
johnny: Reeeeealy? Hmmm
15:24
vagrantc: The coffee was muy excellento in Portland
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15:25
<jammcq>
sbalneav: yer hanging around the office rather late, eh?
15:25vagrantc has quit IRC
15:25
<johnny>
sbalneav, i figured you'd be very interested in that :)
15:26
mr xprop
15:26
i jsut can't tell if it will help the problem of communication between client and server device config..
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15:39
<alkisg>
Guys, if I did 'ltsp-build-client --keep-packages', what's the quickest way to update to a newer version? Because I used to do 'rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i*', which caused all the chroot packages to be downloaded again...
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15:40
<nubae>
ltsp-build-client --keep-packages-cache or whatever its called
15:41
ah wait, ure already using that...
15:41
<alkisg>
Eh, now I see there are 2 options, '--copy-package-cache ', and '--keep-packages', but I don't understand the difference...
15:41* alkisg is googling...
15:41
<sbalneav>
Anything with xprops interests me
15:43
<Lns>
sbalneav: hmm, interesting - I'd just heard about 'wmcontrol' last night, this seems akin to that
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15:45
<johnny>
i should find a way to make it my job to scour the web for interesting technologies that save people alot of time (and thus money)
15:45
<alkisg>
So, --keep-packages-cache puts them in /var/cache/apt/archives, and --copy-package-cache uses this cache?
15:46
sorry, in the first one I meant --keep-packages
15:53
ok - found the code in the scripts.
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15:59
<jc2it>
So when I mess with certain things pertaining to videoram example OPTION "VideoRAM" 4096 in the XORG.CONF on the Thin Client. Stuff happens. The SCREEN_2 that I have configured to local shell login gets overwritten, and displays colorful artifacts instead of the black and white shell. Why?
16:00
<jammcq>
because quite possibly you don't really have 4096kb of video ram
16:00
<jc2it>
How do I know how much I really have?
16:00
<jammcq>
yet you've told the driver that you do, so it tries writing data to that video ram and unpredictable things happen
16:00
what kind of card is it?
16:00
<jc2it>
like the graphical garbage i see
16:01
<jammcq>
if it's integrated on the motherboard, you might have a setting in your bios config
16:01
<jc2it>
Integrated Via CN700 chipset on a Neoware C50
16:01
<jammcq>
if it's a pci card, you might see a sticker
16:01
maybe the spec sheet for that computer
16:01
maybe neoware would tell you what it has
16:01
<jc2it>
I do, the BIOS comes defaulted to 16 MB and can be adjusted up to 64 MB
16:02
<jammcq>
hmm
16:02
try telling the driver 16mb
16:02
<jc2it>
I have and no Joy
16:02
<jammcq>
hmm, dunno then
16:03
<jc2it>
I started this journey because I thought that part of the reason I was having trouble displaying certain graphics at the thin client was due to the drivers being loaded.
16:04
I thought if I could get the screensaver to work for instance that would be a simple test. Changing the screen saver throws me back to a login window
16:05
However changing the screen saver on the console of the server works just fine.
16:05
admittedly the screensaver is not desired on the thin client
16:06
, but I thought it was good test.
16:06
<ogra>
well, it displays there and uses thevideoram
16:06
what distro and ltsp release is taht ?
16:06
<jc2it>
Ubuntu 8.04 + LTSP 5
16:07
<ogra>
note that its SCREEN_02 actually (note the zero) you said SCREEN_2 above
16:07
did you try wthout any lts.conf ?
16:08
<jc2it>
Yeah that is what i have it was a typo
16:08
<ogra>
oki
16:09
did you try wihout one ?
16:09
(lts.conf)
16:09
<jc2it>
Yes. that is how we were first setup
16:10
<ogra>
did you try XSERVER=openchrome
16:10
<jc2it>
We got similar results, but i did not see the garbage on SCREEN_02, because it did not exist
16:11
<ogra>
its definately addressing wrong areas of the ram
16:11
<jc2it>
we are using that. How do you specify the ram for open chrome in lts.conf
16:11
<ogra>
X_VIDEORAM iirc
16:11
or X_VIDEO_RAM
16:12
ah, both will work
16:12
<jc2it>
like this X_VIDEO_RAM = 16MB
16:12
<ogra>
no
16:12
X_VIDEO_RAM=16384
16:12
that would be 16M
16:13
like you would specify it in xorg.conf
16:13
8192 is 8M
16:14
<jc2it>
which is what we did, but I wanted to make sure ;)
16:15
<ogra>
how about XSERVER=via ?
16:15
<jc2it>
By doing that it should change the options in the xorg.conf that is generated at thinclient boot time?
16:15
<ogra>
iirc hardy ships both va drivers
16:15
*via
16:15
yes
16:16
had yis the last release where it does that by default btw
16:16
*hardy
16:17
<jc2it>
XSERVER=via makes the screen blink. We also tried getting the latest ubuntu driver for the CN700 from via's website and it did the same thing. Unless I installed it wrong
16:17
<ogra>
you need to install it inside the chroot and run sudo ltsp-update-image afterward
16:17
s
16:18makghosh|afk has quit IRC
16:19
<jc2it>
hmmm I will try that.
16:19
<ogra>
how did you do it before ?
16:21
<jc2it>
I had help so I think it was not done correctly. I will have to check where the .tar put stuff
16:22
I think it isonly on the server
16:22
<ogra>
yeah, likely
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16:26
<jc2it>
I did the VideoRam thing again with the syntax you gave me and it shows up in the thin client. I know i did not do that correctly before.
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16:45
<jc2it>
By matching the Default BIOS settings with the lts.conf X_VIDEO_RAM=16384 we have resolved the graphical artifacts on the different screens of the LTSP thin client. Now I can manipulate the screensaver in the thinclient and it does not exit to a login. Also I can Ctrl+ALT+BackSpace and restart X and it does not affect the graphics on SCREEN_02. The Screensaver does not load after the timeout, but it blanks instead which I have asneaky suspition
16:45
is a Ubuntu default
16:47
What is interesting is that this was broken by default with the openchrome driver. the driver was not setting the correct amount of video ram for the LTSP client
17:16
<stgraber>
ouch, finally out of conference room :) I was stuck in meeting for the whole day
17:17
<ogra>
jc2it, X_VIDEO_RAM=16384 alone fixed it ?
17:18
stgraber, yeah, i know how that feels ... its actually really great to work in a company without physical conference rooms if you have done that for some years
17:19
<stgraber>
ogra: well, I usually get some one hour meeting and things like that but this time it was a whole day of project management and company business things (basically we're expending an need better procedures to do our work)
17:19
<ogra>
yawn :)
17:19
<stgraber>
so the meeting was great but not using internet one day before the RC freeze is not really a good idea ...
17:20
<ogra>
well, great news for you, see #ubuntu-devel topic :P
17:20
you have 1.5h if you want fixes in
17:20
<stgraber>
especially as I'm giving a Launchpad training tomorrow morning ...
17:20
<ogra>
then LP will go down for maintenance
17:20
<stgraber>
:(
17:21
it'll take me more to reinstall the test lab :)
17:21* ogra still has a bunch of evtouch fixes to do
17:21
<ogra>
but only packaging issues, so i'm running in support mode atm
17:21
<Lns>
ogra: is it possible for me to be on the 'notify list' of changes to the ubuntu ltsp wiki main page?
17:23
<ogra>
just subscribe to it
17:23
<Lns>
oh, ok =p jeez didn't know it was that easy
17:23* ogra glares at the title of GDMVNCInetdssh
17:23
<ogra>
urgh
17:23
<Lns>
?
17:23
is that bad? :)
17:23
<ogra>
well, not really a wording anyone would understand
17:24
at least it has "HOWTO: GDM/VNC/inetd/ssh" near it
17:24
<Lns>
:) sorry..i'm basically copying the useful things from my own wiki here for everyone
17:24
<ogra>
Lns, if you can pronounce it you get a beer
17:24
;)
17:24
<Lns>
gdmvncinetdsshgdmvncinetdsshgdmvncinetdsshgdmvncinetdssh
17:24
<ogra>
lol
17:24
<Lns>
beer me
17:25* ogra didnt hear it
17:25
<Lns>
well i'm not gonna make an ogg for ya, sorry =p
17:25
<stgraber>
and you have to try to pronounce it after the beer, if you can, then the beer is free :)
17:25
<Lns>
lol
17:25
hmm... ogg-ra
17:25
<ogra>
yeah, good point
17:25
*g*
17:26* Lns hopes what he's putting up on the wiki will be useful more than cluttering
17:27
<ogra>
yeah, i just found the title weird
17:27
<Lns>
Everything i've documented has been of tremendous use to me though so hopefully it'll be for others
17:27
X0d_of_N0d_: !!
17:27
<ogra>
heh
17:27* Lns saw X0d_of_N0d_ demonstrate LTSP last night at their local LUG
17:28
<X0d_of_N0d_>
hey Lns
17:28
<Lns>
wassup..thx for the link
17:28
<X0d_of_N0d_>
yeah, I've got to make sure I fill in the rest of the notes on our dripy
17:29
Lns: oh, yeah, I saw you mentioned it earlier in the log... lemme give you the other link too
17:30
xte (part of the xautomation package) http://hoopajoo.net/projects/xautomation.html
17:30* ogra loves xte
17:31
<X0d_of_N0d_>
xte and wmctrl are awesome...
17:31* ogra didnt know about wmctrl ...
17:31
<ogra>
i'm a devilspie guy
17:31
<X0d_of_N0d_>
but I usually use the commandline for almost everything, and everything else I use shortcuts and stuff
17:31
<Lns>
nice
17:31
<X0d_of_N0d_>
oh, yeah.... very close
17:32
<Lns>
thx X0d_of_N0d_
17:32
<X0d_of_N0d_>
I just use awesomewm and let that handle everything
17:32
np man
17:32
hum....
17:32
<ogra>
aewsomewm :)
17:32
cool :)
17:32
<X0d_of_N0d_>
Tiling window managers ROCK
17:33
Awesome or xmonad have the best dual monitor support so...
17:33
ogra: you use devilspie with gnome or something else?
17:34
<ogra>
comoiz and meatcity, yeah
17:34
*meta*
17:34
<Lns>
LOL
17:34
<ogra>
*compiz
17:34
<Lns>
meatcity..the porn of window managers!
17:34* ogra should have had less from that glenvilet :)
17:35
<X0d_of_N0d_>
lol
17:36
One of the guys here uses Xmonad + gnome
17:36
but it doesn't have all the flashy goodness of compiz
17:37
<ogra>
well, i was surprised to see it working with compiz at all, but when i noticed that i made it a default on ubuntu-mobile
17:37
<X0d_of_N0d_>
you're part of that project too?
17:38
<ogra>
ubuntu defaults to fll back to metacity if there is no composite so i had to find something that makes it possible to have windows maximized and undecorated on both
17:38
i built the new ubuntu-mobile image, yes
17:39
<X0d_of_N0d_>
that's pretty sweet, I've been wanting to try that on a system...it looks really interesting
17:39
<ogra>
i just dropped my duties on ubuntu ltsp to do more tsp upsteam work without the constrqaints of constantly looking at the release schedule
17:40
<X0d_of_N0d_>
that sounds nice
17:41
<ogra>
and mobile gets me into the intrestig HW :)
17:41
<X0d_of_N0d_>
wish I could do that where I work...
17:41* ogra loves playing with touchscreens
17:41
<X0d_of_N0d_>
oh, you hear about the openpandora?
17:42
<ogra>
nope, whats that ?
17:42
<X0d_of_N0d_>
http://openpandora.org/
17:42
bwahahaha...sweet
17:42
<ogra>
oh, nice
17:42
<X0d_of_N0d_>
The prez of our lug is getting one in a few weeks I guess...
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17:42
<X0d_of_N0d_>
totally open source computer, from the ground up
17:43
<ogra>
ubuntu doesnt officially support arm yet
17:43
<X0d_of_N0d_>
(From what I've been told...)
17:43
<ogra>
i played a bit ith my n800 though
17:43
<X0d_of_N0d_>
they've got ubuntu booted on it
17:43
<ogra>
and would love to support beagel board as thin clients
17:43
well, they
17:43
likely got mojo booting on it
17:44
there is no actual ubuntu for arm yet
17:44
(planned, discussed ... but not happened yet)
17:44
<Lns>
holy crap openpandora looks sweeet
17:46
<johnny>
ubuntu with arm should be easy enough
17:46
<X0d_of_N0d_>
I guess it was like $300 when Kyle got it
17:46
I want one
17:46
<johnny>
if not.. build the client as debian.. :)
17:47
HELLO gentlement
17:47
gentlemen*
17:47
<ogra>
hey
17:47
well, ubuntu on arm means it has to run on all the HW as well as it does on x86
17:47
thats the hard part
17:48
cn make mojo run on my n80
17:48
*i can
17:48
<johnny>
ogra, aren't you up past your bedtime?
17:48
<ogra>
johnny, but not finished with the bottle ... and its final freeze tomorrow
17:48
<johnny>
lol
17:48
<ogra>
... and i have to finish one last package
17:48
:)
17:48
<X0d_of_N0d_>
ogra: you in the uk?
17:48
<ogra>
.de
17:49
<X0d_of_N0d_>
lol
17:49kc8pxy__ is now known as kc8pxy
17:49
<johnny>
so.. give me the super secret internal mirror so i can get fast speeds
17:49
on the release date :)
17:49
nah.. i'll bittorrent it i guess
17:49
<ogra>
i could ... but you would tell it to others, i know you :P
17:49
<johnny>
lol
17:49
<ogra>
;)
17:49
<johnny>
bittorrent will be good enough
17:50
i just wish i could get the apt mirrors over bittorrent
17:50
what great weather we are having..
17:51
<kc8pxy>
johnny: apt doesn't do that?
17:51
<johnny>
i don't think so
17:51
i could be wrong
17:51
<ogra>
no, it doesnt (yet)
17:51
<johnny>
maybe for jaunty...
17:51
mmm.. foodz
17:52
<kc8pxy>
i know gentoo uses rsync, and the more mirrors i use(responsibly) the better performance i get :)
17:54
<ogra>
well, ubuntu promotes torrent for final users and rsync for testers
17:54
but if yu have several millions of testers that doesnt really help+
17:55* ogra waits for the release where ubuntu uses up all of the uk countrywide bandwith
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17:58
<X0d_of_N0d_>
I'm looking more forward to seeing package auth go through ssl or something, isn't apt still vulnarable to a mitm?
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18:00
<X0d_of_N0d_>
or am I wrong?
18:01
<Lns>
ogra: you mind if i edit your 'quickinstall' page to simply have the "specific to ubuntu version 8.04" header in there, as i'm putting on all other pages?
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18:02
<ogra>
Lns, its not specific to 8.04
18:02
its the same on intrepid
18:03
<johnny>
X0d_of_N0d_, packages are md5summed and gpg signed
18:03
so.. unlikely
18:03
<Lns>
ogra: ok..but the page is specific to 8.04 (has links and all to 8.04 isos)
18:03
<ogra>
Lns, and the commandline stuff at the bottom isnt bound to any release
18:03
i will update the links
18:03
on release day
18:04
<Lns>
oh ok
18:04
<ogra>
quickInstall is actually supposed to be valid for the current reelase all the time
18:05
<Lns>
ahh, gotcha.
18:05
<ogra>
its actually the only page i kept constantly updated since breezy :)
18:05
<Lns>
:p that's what i'm here to help with!
18:06
<ogra>
well, the screenshots should still match intrepid
18:06
and the links have to be updated on release day
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18:18
<johnny>
random stab for this channel
18:18
anybody use the cherokee web server?
18:18* ogra feels stabbed
18:18
<johnny>
not that kinda stab ogra
18:18
<ogra>
heh
18:18
<johnny>
i'll save that for when i see you again
18:19
intrepid ibex.. the monster that must be stopped
18:19
<ogra>
haha
18:19
why, if its out we'll get the jaunty jackalope
18:19
and *who* wouldnt want *that*
18:19
:)
18:19
<johnny>
you'll never get the significance of the use of the jackalope
18:19* Lns wonders what comes after zealoty zebra
18:20
<johnny>
since you don't live in the US
18:20
and watch primetime television during the early 90s
18:20
<ogra>
well, we have albrecht duerer ... and he has drawn the first jackalope in 1520 :)
18:21
<johnny>
that's not the same
18:21
<ogra>
http://illustrationrevealed.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/durer-jackalope/
18:21
<X0d_of_N0d_>
hey, so...are you guys going to ever use any of the names from this list?? http://tipotheday.com/ubuntu-names-repository/
18:23
<Lns>
I really don't think there's ever going to be an Ubuntu "agitated ass-monger"
18:23
<ogra>
mark decides on the names
18:23
jaunty jackalope is on there
18:24
<X0d_of_N0d_>
lol
18:24
<Lns>
Promiscuous Penguin just seems wrong
18:26
<johnny>
lol
18:26
what happened ot the A
18:26
you guys did the order wrong sadly
18:26
<X0d_of_N0d_>
http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2008/07/future-ubuntu-names.html
18:26
<Lns>
ogra: does lts.conf honor stanza # this is a comment on the same line ?
18:27
<johnny>
already used the H and W
18:27
<ogra>
Lns, it should, yes
18:27
<Lns>
k
18:27
<X0d_of_N0d_>
dude, I'm totally voting for wanking walrus
18:27
<Lns>
thx
18:27
hahahha
18:27
<ogra>
lol
18:31* Lns ducks out a bit early
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18:32
<FuriousGeorge>
hey all
18:34
my client just got some new keyboards for his thin clients, and he tells me that certain keys stop working occasionally. he must unplug they ps2 keyboard for a moment, or reboot the thin client. this is gonna be a really insidious problem, i think.
18:34
<johnny>
sounds like bad hardware
18:35
<FuriousGeorge>
the problem follows the new keyboards on every thin client
18:35
its more complicated than that, though
18:35
<X0d_of_N0d_>
what kind of keyboards?
18:35
<FuriousGeorge>
im using a ps2/usb adapter
18:35
<X0d_of_N0d_>
what brand?
18:35
<FuriousGeorge>
'mini keyboard' with built in trackball
18:36
ill get a link
18:37
http://www.provantage.com/~7SOLD00J.htm
18:38
X0d_of_N0d_: the thin clients dont have a ps2 port, so i got usb adapters for the barcode scanners. however, the barcode scanner will not work unless it is used in conjunction with a ps2 keyboard
18:38
<X0d_of_N0d_>
we had a problem with some usb keytronic keyboards with a built in hub, that proved to be the keyboard actually
18:39
hum
18:40
so everything worked with the previous keyboards though?
18:49
<FuriousGeorge>
yeah
18:49
sorry for delay, i was googling around
18:49
it doesnt really make sense
18:50
they keyboard itself is actually hooked up to the 'ps2 port splitter pigtails' that come with every ps2 barcode scanner
18:50
the pigtails, in turn are hooked up to the ps2/usb adapter
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18:53
<johnny>
that is probably the problem
18:53
try it without
18:53
or use a usb keyboard :)
18:53
lol
18:55
<FuriousGeorge>
cant use a usb keyboard
18:55
or the barcode scanners wont work
18:56
and i cant try it without till tomorrow when i go there
18:56
i do know that some ps2 keyboards work consistently, just not this one
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19:25
<X0d_of_N0d_>
wait...
19:26
you can't use a usb keyboard then plug in the ps2/usb adapter & scanner?
19:26
it seems like the scanner is essentially just a keyboard... I had a cue-cat that worked like that
19:30
<FuriousGeorge>
sorry, i have a buddy over who's distracting me
19:32
the scanner wont work unless its used with a ps2 keyboard
19:33
ps2 scanners all have a pigtail for a ps2 keyboard (obviously, since c omputers have only 1 ps2 port)
19:34
i find this to be true of the scanner in linux and windows, so i dont think theres a software fix for it
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20:05
<FuriousGeorge>
X0d_of_N0d_: johnny was right though, I'm gonna need to try it without the adapters and on a regular client, etc
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22:33
<sbalneav>
Evening all
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22:41
<johnny>
hi sbalneav
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22:45
<sbalneav>
Back
22:45
<johnny>
welcome back
23:00
bring back the pioneer!
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