IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 21 September 2011   (all times are UTC)

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02:01
<smt>
hi folks, im just trying ltsp and for that i wanted to use virtualbox guests, i set up the server and try to boot the other guest from it, but i only get "FATAL: Could not read from the boot medium! System halted.". when booting the target vm from a live cd it is possible to obtain an ip from the dhcp server in the other vm, any ideas whats wrong?
02:02
they are connected via virtualbox´s internal connection
02:20
ok, should anybody else ask such a question, tell him/her to try emulating a pcnet card instead of the intel ones
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07:54
<Hyperbyte>
I've missed you guys!
07:54* Hyperbyte hugs everybody
07:55
<Hyperbyte>
I was so alone. :(
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08:09
<Hyperbyte>
Alkis! Hi!
08:10
<alkisg>
Hey Hyperbyte, did you finish moving?
08:10
<muppis>
Heh. Sorry. I first read 'Alkkis', which is finnish slang for alcoholic.
08:11
<alkisg>
Heh, I've heard that in the past, but I thought that was in German
08:12
<muppis>
It can be, as in german it is Alkoholiker.
08:12
<Hyperbyte>
Alkis, finish moving?
08:13
I was cleaning my office yesterday, not moving. :P
08:13
I'll do that in december.
08:21
<garymc>
hi guys
08:24
<Hyperbyte>
Good morning MC Gary!
08:24Lobs has joined IRC (Lobs!~lobo@unaffiliated/lobs)
08:24
<Lobs>
what is a good windows based client to use for ltsp?
08:26
<garymc>
Girls all complaining that FAT clients are SLOWWWwWwwWwWw
08:26
possibly chrome slowing it all down?
08:26
<Hyperbyte>
garymc, find out what they mean with "it is slow"
08:26
What exactly is slow.
08:26
And then out what the bottleneck is. CPU or RAM.
08:27
Lobs, Windows based client to use for LTSP?
08:27
What do you mean by that?
08:28
<Lobs>
yes, to connect to the ltsp server using an application within windows.
08:28
<garymc>
refreshing pages and loading pages on the internet
08:28
thats all they use
08:28
the web on it
08:28
Lobs : Dont think you can do that
08:28
<Hyperbyte>
Lobs, why would you want to do that?
08:28
garymc, yes, you can do that.
08:28
<garymc>
LTSP isnt meant to be used that way
08:29
can you?
08:29
using Telnet or something?
08:29
<Lobs>
Hyperbyte: to use the applications on the server from a machine that is used for other things aswell (that are windows based)
08:29
<Hyperbyte>
Lobs, easiest would be the other way around of course. Use your thin clients and run an rdesktop session inside
08:29
This is how I do it as well, just have one LTSP server and one RDP server for the Windows applications they need.
08:30
But otherwise, you could set up FreeNX or dare I say it, VNC, to get remote virtual desktops over network.
08:30
It's not LTSP related by the way, can be done with any Linux machine.
08:30
<Lobs>
applications on windows is needed for is video editing,
08:30
a bit hard on the network to do via a client
08:30
<Hyperbyte>
Agreed.
08:31
I have one person here who needs to do DTP work in Adobe Indesign. He's the only person with a Windows PC under his desk, but he also has a thin client. He has a KVM switch to switch between the two.
08:33
But like I said, you can set up your Linux machine as a VNC server, or FreeNX server, and connect to it from Windows that way.
08:33
<Lobs>
hmmm, i was hoping it could be done from windows, check email etc with ltsp and do "real" work within windows itself. (also means the editing machine does not need internet access)
08:33
<Hyperbyte>
You could even set up a virtual PC on Windows to do network boot, if you want a real client emulation.
08:33
<Lobs>
vnc does not allow you to login as a user tho does it?
08:33
<Hyperbyte>
But FreeNX or VNC is a much better solution I tihnk.
08:33
It can.
08:33* Lobs not familure with FreeNX, will look it up.
08:35
<Hyperbyte>
http://secondary.recreatie-zorg.nl:8080/~jan/vnc.jpg
08:35
I've been told FreeNX performs much better though.
08:35
Reason I'm using VNC is because I need a simple protocol and simple client, so I can also VNC to work from my Android smartphone.
08:36
<alkisg>
Freenx indeed performs about 10 times faster than vnc
08:36
Lobs, install neatx-server on your ltsp server, and the nomachine nx client on your windows pc, and you're done
08:36
garymc: what are your fat client specs? CPU and RAM?
08:36
<Hyperbyte>
:)
08:36
alkisg, 2.66ghz and 2 gb ram
08:36
Heh
08:36
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: sorry I though you were moving!
08:37
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg: I am! Just not yet. =)
08:37
I'll be working in the new office in the first two weeks of december, running cables and such
08:37
Third week of december I'll be moving as much of the IT infrastructure as I can, without breaking the local office here
08:38
<alkisg>
garymc: fat clients should be exactly as fast as local linux installations. To verify that, you can install linux in an external usb disk (or internal one, if you have) and boot a client with that, it should have the same speed as a fat client.
08:38
<Hyperbyte>
And the fourth week of december all servers and clients go over.
08:38
<alkisg>
Sounds like your x-mas holidays will be full :)
08:38
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah.
08:38
Hopefully I'll have a break from the radio gig then, but I think the program will just continue.
08:40
<alkisg>
garymc: ah, also if you're using the default ubuntu setup, it has nbd disk compression off, and that makes fat client disk access 3 times slower, you might want to reenable it
08:41* alkisg thinks he needs to write that on the wiki page
08:41
<garymc>
alkisg : how do I check that?
08:41
<alkisg>
stgraber: could we revert the default to "use compression" again? I think the problems you were seeing were nbd-proxy related, not compression related, right?
08:41
<garymc>
2ghz 2gb ram are my FAT clients specs
08:42
<alkisg>
Dual core?
08:42
To check the compression setting: cat /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf
08:44
<garymc>
NO_COMP="-noF -noD -noI -no-exports"
08:44
<alkisg>
Put a hash in front of it: #NO_COMP="-noF -noD -noI -no-exports"
08:44
Then run: ls -l /opt/ltsp/images
08:44
sudo ltsp-update-image
08:44
ls -l /opt/ltsp/images
08:45
And compare how smaller the disk got
08:45
It should be about 2.5 times smaller
08:45
so, 2.5 times faster
08:47
<garymc>
so do this and reboot clients should be better
08:47
<alkisg>
Yes
08:47
And paste here the output of `ls`
08:47
<garymc>
17% done update image
08:47
:)
08:47
<alkisg>
So that we can compare
08:47
ls -l /opt/ltsp/images, before and after the compression
08:49
<garymc>
total 2160688
08:49
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2212540416 2011-09-14 21:13 amd64.img
08:50
it hasnt changed?
08:50
<alkisg>
Did the compression finish?
08:50
<garymc>
yes
08:51
<alkisg>
cat /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf
08:51
<garymc>
i ran th els -l command and its the same numbers
08:51
the hash isnt there :S duh
08:53
i never sudo the file to chsnge it :S
08:57* Hyperbyte smacks garymc!
08:57
<garymc>
total 842752
08:57
hmm cool
08:58
<alkisg>
2212540416÷842752000=2.6 times smaller, so disk access=2.6 times faster ;)
08:58
And if your network is 100mbps, that's *a lot* faster
09:00
!learn nbd-compression as In Ubuntu >= 10.04, to make your clients go faster, you can reenable NBD compression: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients#Reenabling_NBD_compression
09:00
<ltsp>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
09:00
<garymc>
cool rebooted first girls comp
09:00
working better already
09:01
only thing is, every time they load chrome, it keeps asking for them to put password in keyring all the time
09:01
how do i stop that happening?
09:01
<alkisg>
You need to create keyring with no password
09:02
<garymc>
how?
09:02
<alkisg>
It's a generic gnome question, ask in #gnome or in #ubuntu
09:02
Another option would be to use the same password as the one you use to login, and LDM should then use the same password to unlock the keyring. But I don't think LDM supports that currently.
09:03
<garymc>
yeah it does
09:03
<alkisg>
(while on normal Ubuntu installations, GDM supports that and unlocks the keyring)
09:03
LDM is the LTSP display manager, I don't think it support unlocking keyrings.
09:03
GDM is the gnome display manager, another one
09:04
One hint: the gnome keyrings are stored in ~/.gnome2/keyrings/ ;)
09:04
<garymc>
hmm confusing
09:04
<alkisg>
Find out the rest at #gnome or #ubuntu
09:04
Or, use google, it helps a lot ;)
09:04
<garymc>
i will cheers
09:04
<alkisg>
bb
09:08
garymc: are your clients 100mbps? or do you have a full gigabit network?
09:09
<garymc>
its a gigabit network, but cos they link through the sip phones, the sip phones have 100mbps
09:09
so that slows em down
09:09
<alkisg>
That slows them down 10 times, it's the main cause of delays
09:10
You need to fix that if you want fast clients
09:10
At least to check that you don't have flow control problems
09:10
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
09:10
Because otherwise you server slows down 10 times too
09:10
bb
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09:43
<alkisg_android>
hi markit... any problems with ltsp on kde?
09:45
<Lobs>
NotTooDumb3_: if it is like other fb vo's it accepts the device after the vo name, i.e `-vo omapfb:/dev/fb666`
09:45
<markit>
hi alkisg_android :) What do you mean? Today my "collaborative" teacher at primary school has used the lab for the first time. I have to talk with her yet, but she sent me an email from school server telling that everything (except one keyboard layout) works wonderfully and children are happy and had no problems using the system :))
09:46
brb
09:48
<alkisg_android>
some time ago i have heard of sound problems localdevs not showing up etc
09:49
but if everything works now, cool!
09:53
<markit>
alkisg_android: localdevs? if you insert a usb pen in a client, it does NOT notify you, correct, is a kde / ltsp problem
09:53
you find the device mounted in /dev/media/youraccount/whatever though
09:54
just the nitification does not work. Sadly ltsp people use gnome, and kde dev don't use ltsp...
09:54
<alkisg_android>
ah, so it's still a problem.. anything else?
09:54
<markit>
alkisg_android: thin client: is it normal (i.e. happens to gnome too) that when TEACHER plugs usb pen on the server, every client see the notification?
09:55
<alkisg_android>
we may have to switch to kde in 12.04...;)
09:55
<markit>
WOW!!!!
09:55
ehm, ah, really?
09:56* markit so happy
09:56
<markit>
well, hope at those time KDE will not switch to unity and whyland, lol
09:56
kunity, I mean ;P
09:56
<alkisg_android>
haha
09:56
<markit>
well, I see you are connected with android phone, maybe not easy to type, you will tell me more tonight, I'm so curious :)
09:57
<alkisg_android>
it happened on gnome too not sure if if was fixed
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09:59* alkisg_android got the little kid from school and waits for the other 2... IRC is good for killing time :P
09:59
<alkisg_android>
cu later
09:59
<markit>
and for localdev (usb pens), is it normal (gnome too?) that you don't have a gui way to "unmount"? I remember it was, and you just had to wait 4 seconds
09:59
ok, see you :)
09:59
<alkisg_android>
2seconds
10:00
ltspfsd doesnt support unmounting
10:01
but it flushes every 2 secs
10:01
<markit>
hope you are not already driving car back to home while typing... ;P
10:01
ok, important is also look at the usb led, has not to blink, lol
10:01
(copy, paste, wait 2 sec, unplug, bang!)
10:01
<alkisg_android>
haha no have to wait 10moreminutes
10:02
hmmm typing on android isn't too bad
10:04
there's the usbip project maybe is has better results
10:05
<markit>
alkisg_android: android is going to become really closed product, unfortunatly
10:05
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/sep/19/android-free-software-stallman
10:05
<alkisg_android>
how come?
10:05
reading...
10:06
<markit>
is not full (or even "very") free at the moment, and google seems not willing to open the code anymore with 3.2, as far as I've heard/udnerstood
10:07
btw, I'm very sad when project start with GPL and then think to "evolve" using MIT or BSD license "so proprietary people can use too", because they hurt our community and help our enemies
10:07
(general consideration besides Android stuff)
10:12
<alkisg_android>
it didn't make me worry... if android 3 is closed source, then i'll worry
10:13
allowing prop. stuff is ok for now compaanies have to make money
10:13
bb, later
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10:23
<markit>
companies have to make money from the Free stuff, not prop, or they have to build the entire prop stack, not use our free one
10:23
otherwise is unfair... we work and they make money giving nothing back
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13:25
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, it's interesting how much difference it makes from one VNC client to another.
13:25
I just tried Vinagre for VNC... it's horrible, I can see why you say it's 10 times slower than anything else.
13:26
Switched to tightvnc viewer and now it feels more like typing on localhost, when I'm logged into my computer at home.
13:26
I never thought it'd make such difference from one program to another.
13:31
<alkisg>
I tried all of them, tightvnc, ultravnc, realvnc, vinagre, you name it
13:31
Do try nx before comparing :D
13:32
Also, I think it works best if you not only change the client part, but the server too
13:32
So if you're using vino-server for the server, it won't matter much if you're using tightvnc for the client
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13:42
<alkisg>
In my experience so far, it's: X >> NX > RDP >> VNC
13:43
(and to be fair, GDI > X :D)
13:53
<Hyperbyte>
=)
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14:03
<m4xx>
anyone know if this would power one of the 1720 dws thin clients? http://www.short-circuit.com/product/picoUPS-120.html
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14:10
<Hyperbyte>
m4xx, do you have the original adapter?
14:10
<m4xx>
yes
14:10
i want to use one of these things as a carputer
14:10
<Hyperbyte>
On there it says output voltage/ampere/watt
14:11
<m4xx>
12v 4a 10w i believe
14:11
<Hyperbyte>
If those match the output voltages of whatever else you're putting in it's place, it should work, shouldn't it?
14:11
12 volt, 4 amperes, I can confirm that.
14:12
<m4xx>
i don't see wats
14:12
watts
14:21
<Hyperbyte>
Shouldn't be there, ignore my watts.
14:21
If ampere and volts matches, that's enoughs.
14:21
-s
14:22
watts = amps * volts
14:23
If you wanna be sure there's nothing you're overlooking, why not ask DLWS? :)
14:23
<m4xx>
i was hoping to catch one one of em on here
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15:02
<Hyperbyte>
m4xx, I'd just mail support@disklessworkstations.com
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18:11
<alkisg>
stgraber: nbd-client hangs while trying to connect to my named export in kubuntu oneiric amd64, any known problems?
18:14
<stgraber>
alkisg: not sure, just started testing today's build now
18:14
<alkisg>
Ah maybe a problem with tcp wrappers / hosts.deny, looking into it...
18:15
(where did /var/log/daemon.log go?! :))
18:18
<stgraber>
ltsp live boots at least, will see if it still works post-install
18:18
highvoltage: oh, and I got a nice ldm greeter in chinese! :)
18:20
<alkisg>
Oops, sorry, my bad, wrong server IP (didn't use ipappend 3). Now it fails with an error message about the image being some ...petabytes
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18:26
<highvoltage>
stgraber: nice. didn't that work before?
18:30
<stgraber>
highvoltage: we were missing the fonts
18:32
<highvoltage>
ah right
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18:45
<alkisg>
...almost reached ldm... ;)
18:50
<bakytn>
where to find changes which are coming with Oneiric?
18:51
(hi!)
19:08
<stgraber>
alkisg: installed LTSP with Edubuntu, I get ldm working too (so nbd worked)
19:08
alkisg: did you find what failed for you?
19:10
<alkisg>
stgraber: the nbd problem was (1) ipappend 3, and (2) if I put -N /opt/ltsp/amd64 before the server name, it had the problem, while if I put it after it didn't (!)
19:10
So not really an ltsp problem there, ltsp_nbd is fine,
19:10
and now I'm getting a blank screen instead of ldm, digging into it...
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19:30
<tastle73>
hey guys
19:30
I'm having a weird problem with lts.conf
19:30
it's in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
19:30
its not being "picked up" by the thin client
19:30
running ubuntu 10.04.3
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19:37
<alkisg>
Can you pastebin your dhcpd.conf ?
19:38
<tastle73>
sure
19:39
http://pastebin.com/4RRxNBuq
19:40
<alkisg>
filename "/lts/vmlinuz.ltsp";
19:40
So your clients are searching in /lts/lts.conf
19:40
Make a symlink if you want
19:40
Or remove the "else" part of your dhcpd.conf
19:41
Or put "Linux ipconfig" in the first part too
19:41
(instead of just "PXEClient")
19:41
*and udhcp too
19:42
<tastle73>
is there an example dhcp v.3 file somewhere?
19:43
<alkisg>
dpkg -L ltsp-server | grep dhcp
19:48
<tastle73>
thank you
19:49
I am having another elusive problem with localapps
19:49
I can't run them as anybody other than the root user
19:54
<alkisg>
Distro/version?
19:55
<tastle73>
ubuntu 10.04.3
19:55
the auth method is nis
19:55
if that matters
19:55
from a rhel 5 box
19:56
<alkisg>
In your server, does `getent passwd user` return the user that is logged in on the client?
19:59
<tastle73>
checking
19:59
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: were localapps working with NIS?
20:01
<tastle73>
yes
20:01
it does
20:03
<alkisg>
tastle73: and yet, `ltsp-localapps xterm` does not work?
20:03
<tastle73>
no
20:03
<alkisg>
OK, do you have a local shell on your client?
20:03
(e.g. ssh or root login)
20:04
<tastle73>
yes
20:04
<alkisg>
does getent passwd user show something there?
20:04
(with the user logged on)
20:04
(and localapps enabled)
20:05
<tastle73>
yes
20:05
it doezs
20:06
<alkisg>
What's the output of `id user` ?
20:06
(still in the local terminal, right?)
20:07
<tastle73>
uid=1000(ltsp) gid=100(users) groups=1000(ltsp)
20:07
yes
20:08
that seems wrong
20:08
<alkisg>
gid=100 ? That's a system group
20:09
<tastle73>
ltsp is the "sudo" user I added when I built up the system
20:09
<alkisg>
Some background: for localapps, ltsp copies a bit of your server /etc/passwd and /etc/group to the thin client
20:09
So something probably goes wrong, and doesn't get the correct info from your ltsp server
20:11
<tastle73>
maybe I should rebuild the chroot . Maybe I didn't have nis setup when I did it.
20:13
<alkisg>
It shouldn't matter
20:13
You didn't setup NIS in the chroot, did you?
20:14
(you shouldn't have)
20:15
<tastle73>
no
20:16
<alkisg>
What's the output of `getltscfg -a` ?
20:16
<andygraybeal>
this project is getting a lot of talk in #zentyal and related forum
20:18
<tastle73>
SCANNER="True"
20:18
LDM_SYSLOG="True"
20:18
NBD_SWAP="True"
20:18
LOCAL_APPS="True"
20:18
TIMESERVER="ntp.ubuntu.com"
20:19
LDM_DIRECTX="True"
20:19
and an export line for each
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21:25
<jammcq>
!seen cliebow
21:25
<ltsp>
jammcq: cliebow was last seen in #ltsp 4 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 16 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <cliebow> going to paint the porch...
21:26
<jammcq>
hmmm
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21:43
<Hyperbyte>
Hmmmmm
21:44
jammcq, that must be some porch...
21:46
<jammcq>
heh
21:46
hope he didn't fall off it
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21:50
<Hyperbyte>
:-D
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22:06jhutchins_kc is now known as jhutchins
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23:37
<Roasted>
whats up guys
23:45
<andygraybeal>
eya Roasted
23:46
i'm cooking up some ground venison
23:46
<Roasted>
hello there
23:47
I'm taking a stab in the dark here... I got some old PPC systems and began to wonder if I could LTSP them....
23:47
as clients...