IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 7 October 2008   (all times are UTC)

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02:37
<highvoltage>
cyberorg: howdy
02:37
<cyberorg>
hi highvoltage :)
02:37
<highvoltage>
cyberorg: ooh, you're here! :)
02:37
cyberorg: I'm helping a colluege with kiwi-ltsp, and hoped that you can give us some advice. we got the client to boot up and log in
02:38
cyberorg: but we get a black screen with a cursor no matter what session we choose
02:39
<cyberorg>
highvoltage, tried different client?
02:39
<highvoltage>
cyberorg: yes
02:39
<cyberorg>
same on all?
02:39
<highvoltage>
cyberorg: only testing with two laptops as clients atm, not a production lab at least
02:40
<cyberorg>
different hardware/monitors on both clients?
02:40
<highvoltage>
yep
02:40
the hardware seems fine, it shows an x cursor
02:41
<cyberorg>
highvoltage, can user log in normally on the server?
02:41
<highvoltage>
we did change the IP address on the server, so I'm not sure if there's a lingering old address around
02:41
cyberorg: yes
02:41
<cyberorg>
ah, if you did, run "kiwi-ltsp-setup -c"
02:41
*changed server IP
02:42
<highvoltage>
cyberorg: ok, just did it. holding thumbs :)
02:43
<cyberorg>
highvoltage, changed the server IP in /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp too?
02:43
<highvoltage>
cyberorg: working fine now, thanks
02:44
cyberorg: yes, I did it there manually before. I think that it might have had something to do with the server's ssh keys that had to be regenerated
02:44
cyberorg: thanks a lot
02:44
<cyberorg>
yes that was it :)
02:44
nice to see ubuntu/member helping out with opensuse testing :)
02:45
thanks for that :)
02:46
<highvoltage>
heh :)
02:46
<cyberorg>
feedback/suggestions welcome when you are done
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02:47
<Hyperbyte>
Hi, anyone here who has experience with LTSP and Fedora?
02:47
I have some questions about localapps & sound... I haven't managed to get either working yet...
02:48
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, just ask, if someone knows they might be able to help
02:48
<Hyperbyte>
cyberorg, alright... just wanted to make sure I wasn't talking to a wall. :P
02:48
LocalApps - as far as I've read on the LTSP wiki, you should be able to launch applications with some ssh or rsh command to the terminal
02:49
However this always results in connection failed on port 22. Any ideas what went wrong?
02:49
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, no, people are always lurking here, even though they might not respond immediately
02:49
<Hyperbyte>
I have NIS & NFS operational... LOCAL_APPS, NIS_SERVER and NIS_DOMAIN set in the LTSP config...
02:50
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, we use "ltsp-localapps /usr/bin/command" from client session
02:50
<Hyperbyte>
Oh really?
02:50
<johnny>
if his fedora build has been updated
02:50
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, ltsp5 does it differently than what is on ltsp wiki
02:50
Hyperbyte, you need app installed in chroot
02:50
<Hyperbyte>
It's freshly installed (Fedora 9) and updated johnny.
02:50
<johnny>
doesn't mean there is a package for what is newest yet
02:51
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, idea is explained briefly here: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Localapps
02:52
<Hyperbyte>
cyberorg, nice! That should help me getting started.
02:53
Okay... I'll give localapps another go in a while...
02:53
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, commands, and the theory are same on F9, installing package in chroot is different
02:53
<Hyperbyte>
cyberorg, actually, what I did last time I needed to install a package directly on the client, was mount / read/write and just run yum....
02:53
Seemed to work nicely...
02:54
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, yes that would work even now
02:54
<Hyperbyte>
:)
02:54
Okay, well, thanks a bunch so far. :) This has been a great help.
02:54
<cyberorg>
just check if you have localapps scripts installed in chroot and on the server
02:54
<Hyperbyte>
I will. :)
02:55
Next I have the issue of the sound not working... I talked to Warren and he said it should work out-of-the-box on Fedora
02:55
I've tested sound on the terminal client with aplay... works... I've tested sound on the terminal.. works too
02:56
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, run paman and see if you have connection to the client pa
02:56
<Hyperbyte>
However everytime I boot the terminal into a Gnome session via LTSP, it says it cannot open the sound device, or fails to open the stream...
02:58
No paman... hang on...
03:00
Okay, I have paman.
03:01
Under tab 'Clients' I see a bunch of lines with "EsounD client..." etc, from my terminal client IP
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03:17
<Hyperbyte>
cyberorg, got local apps working - thanks!
03:18
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, cool, it would be great if you can put that up somewhere on wiki for all fedora users
03:20
<Hyperbyte>
cyberorg, I'll think about it. It's incredibly easy too, just not written down anywhere yeah.
03:20
Adjust lts.conf and run rexec...
03:21
I read somewhere that it should be done via rsh/ssh... it all went downhill from there. ;)
03:22
But is there no LTSP 5 wiki?
03:22
Because most of the info on the wiki seems a little outdated.
03:25
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, there must be one on fedora wiki
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03:30
<johnny>
documentation is being worked on right now
03:30
Hyperbyte,
03:30
here is one of the fellows working on it right now ..
03:30* johnny waves to nubae
03:40
<Hyperbyte>
Hehehe
03:40
Well, if someone helps me to get sound working I'll write a step-by-step guide for Fedora 9 on how to get localapps & sound working. :P
03:41
Anyway right now I'm as happy as a child... got the twinkle softphone working as a local app. :)
03:45
<johnny>
sound..
03:45
is pulseaudio running on the client?
03:46
and is it also running on your user account when logged in ?
03:46
with the gconf-helper
03:46
<Hyperbyte>
I have no idea. How do I check? :)
03:46
cyberorg already asked me to run paman... and that does show client/server connections.
03:47
I actually had a hunch that maybe the local user doesn't have permissions to play sound on the terminal?
03:47
<johnny>
doubtful
03:47
the local user is root
03:48
oh..
03:48
wait.. is your sound problem just for local apps?
03:48
<Hyperbyte>
No
03:48
Local apps work on both client and server
03:48
<johnny>
then the local user doesn't matter probably
03:48
<Hyperbyte>
But remote apps from server don't work on client
03:48
<johnny>
not yet anyways
03:48
<Hyperbyte>
Okay
03:48
<johnny>
set LDM_DEBUG_TERMINAL=T in lts.conf
03:49
hopefully your ltsp-client is new enough
03:49
you should end up with an xterm that runs locally
03:49
<Hyperbyte>
5.1.23.1
03:49
<johnny>
i haven't looked in versions in awhile..
03:49
<Hyperbyte>
Oh, erm...
03:49
I could just press CTRL+ALT+F2?
03:49
Or?
03:50
If a local terminal is what you want, I have it...
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03:53
<Hyperbyte>
Anyway, rebooting clientwith config option set produced no terminal...
03:55
<johnny>
guess it's too old..
03:55
ok.. yeah it's just nice to twiddle both on the same screen
03:55
is pulse there?
03:56
<Hyperbyte>
?
03:56
What do you mean?
03:56
pulseaudio is installed...
03:56
Also seems to be running
04:00
<johnny>
yes.. is it running?
04:00
good
04:00
<Hyperbyte>
ps aux | grep pulseaudio tells me it's running. :)
04:00
<johnny>
so.. now what you might want to do
04:01
is check the volume levels in alsamixer
04:01
make sure it is all well
04:01
<Hyperbyte>
Well, I will
04:01
<johnny>
hmm.. take a look at the bzr branch of ltsp-upstream to try to match what went in after your package
04:02
i'm trying to fix my web server atm
04:02
<Hyperbyte>
But maybe we're a step too far... the programs cannot even seem to -access- the sound device... so...
04:02
<johnny>
well.. next would be to try to run something that can play with pulse locally
04:02
by copying some audio file and installing a player that has pulse support
04:02
<Hyperbyte>
What's a common one?
04:02
Maybe it's already installed...
04:02
<johnny>
depends on the audio file
04:03
mpg123 can support pulse.. not sure if the one in fedora does tho
04:03
<Hyperbyte>
Wave, mp3, ogg, raw... whatever you want.
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04:19
<nubae>
hi johnny
04:24
johnny: would u mind taking a look over my fatclient script? It all works quite well for intrepid...
04:25
only if u have time
04:33
<Q-FUNK>
ahoy!
04:34
<johnny>
nubae, no intrepid install yet
04:34
i'll look at it tho
04:35
<nubae>
it should install on hardy too
04:35
it will install intrepid chroot though
04:35
hi Q-FUNK
04:36
<Q-FUNK>
nubae: hi there! any news?
04:38
<nubae>
not yet, these guys are slow as mollases, we just had an election here though, so things should speed up now
04:45
<Q-FUNK>
;)
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05:04
<ltsppbot>
"Nubae" pasted "fatclient script" (214 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/23
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05:18
<nubae>
damn network manager
05:19
it resets static addresses every time in intrepid
05:19
hope thats fixed before launch
05:20
johnny: did u get the fat client script post? I pasted via pastebot
05:27
<ogra>
nubae, you can participate in the discussion on ubuntu-devel@ ;)
05:28
nubae, fle a bug if you want to, thogh NM wont manage static devices that have an entry in /etc/network/interfaces by release, it can be told to do so ... which will mean dhcpd will break because NM starts the interface to late
05:29
<nubae>
how much traffic is on ubuntu-devel@?
05:29
already signed up for 10 mailings lists :p
05:30
<ogra>
not much
05:31
<nubae>
k, I'll sign up
05:31
<ogra>
ubuntu-devel-discuss has more :)
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05:35
<nubae>
hey, this is kinda unrelated... but maybe u can advise... I need to cross link 2 sql databases, ie fields and tables in one database get linked to different fields and database in another
05:36
I'm thinking of using navicat, but perhaps there is a better way?
05:36
I want to stay away from building a xml abstraction layer
05:36
<ogra>
use sql ?
05:37
<nubae>
isnt there some easy way to just visually pair up the fields to each other?
05:39
<ogra>
an index ?
05:39
<nubae>
hmm true, guess it doesnt matter if the databases are remote
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06:03
<nubae>
is there a irc log for #ltsp somewhere?
06:03
<ogra>
nope
06:04
<nubae>
hmmm shame
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06:08
<nubae>
u think it would be ok, to stick a bot up here for that purpose?
06:11
<ogra>
sure, just make it public where the logs go and make them accessibe for everyone
06:11
or better, talk to sbalneav and submit a patch to get ltspbot do it on ltsp.org
06:12
afaik its a simply supybot
06:12
*simple
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06:12
<nubae>
yeah combined with a php script, I'll stick it up on my blog and on ltsp
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06:13
<nubae>
theres a lot of content, and I notice myself often wishing I could go back and see what was said
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06:22
<sag007>
hi room i installed ltsp...after rebooting it my fedora 9 is not booting
06:23
its saying that cannot register my network interface card (
06:24
do i need additional configurations to get things work
06:24
?
06:33
<nubae>
btw, doing set PULSE_SERVER=127.0.0.1 does not work in Intrepid, it needs some other patches to get sound working
06:37
sag007: just no one from Fedora around
06:37
most devs here are ubuntu or debian based
06:37
<sag007>
oh
06:37
oh
06:37
hmm
06:37
<nubae>
have u looked at the fedora ltsp docs?
06:37
<sag007>
nubae will installing ltsp prevent system from booting?
06:37
yeah
06:38
i just installed ltsp
06:38
<nubae>
it shouldn't no
06:38
<sag007>
and used ltsp-admin to download additional tools
06:38
my fedora is not booting up
06:38
<ogra>
sag007, warren does the fedora port but he is on US timezone, for expertise just wait a bit :)
06:38
<nubae>
ltsp-admin?
06:38
<sag007>
ok
06:38
<ogra>
ltsp-admin ??
06:38
<sag007>
yeah
06:38
<ogra>
thats ltsp 4.x
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06:39
<ogra>
not supported anymore
06:39
<sag007>
oh
06:39
should i try the new one?
06:40
<ogra>
with FC9 ? definately
06:40
<sag007>
yeah
06:40
i am using FC9
06:40
ok
06:40
<ogra>
warren will e able o help you
06:40
<sag007>
ok
06:41
then i will wait for warren
06:41
i am doing a project on thin clients
06:41
<nubae>
yes: http://wtogami.livejournal.com/23648.html
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07:33
<nubae>
http://www.liliputing.com/2008/10/dell-inspiron-mini-with-ubuntu-linux-hits-the-uk.html
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07:47
<Hyperbyte>
sag007: you there?
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07:53
<sag007>
yeah
07:54
Hyperbyte
07:54
there
07:54
i am here
07:54
Hyperbyte there?
07:57
<Hyperbyte>
Hey!
07:57
Fedora 9 LTSP user here...
07:57
I'm quite new to LTSP, but maybe I can help you.
07:57
What's up?
07:57
<sag007>
ok
07:58
i just installed ltsp-utils ltsp-server xinitd
07:58
using yum
07:58
after the reboot my system is not booting up
07:59
<Hyperbyte>
Where does it stop?
07:59
<sag007>
not even loading the init scripts
07:59
it stops before the welcome note "Welcome to fedora"
07:59
<Hyperbyte>
Are you installing a new system?
08:00
<sag007>
new system?
08:00
<Hyperbyte>
Does it matter if you recover this one, or can you just reinstall it?
08:00
<sag007>
i can reinstall it i am using the older kernel
08:01
the old kernel (previous version)
08:01
is working
08:01
<Hyperbyte>
Okay, well, getting LTSP to work on Fedora is pretty easy...
08:01
<sag007>
ok
08:01
<Hyperbyte>
What I did is just do a basic install of Office & Productivity Fedora
08:02
<sag007>
oh
08:02
<nubae>
Hyperbyte: hes running 4.2
08:02
<Hyperbyte>
Then run "yum upgrade" to update your system to the latest versions...
08:02
<sag007>
yeah
08:02
can i get ltsp through yum?
08:02
<Hyperbyte>
Then "yum install ltsp-client ltsp-server ltsp-utils"... finally ltsp-build-client... and then all that's left is configure DHCP
08:02
If you use PXE boot that is...
08:03
My advice is get the latest Fedora and just use yum... gets you there 90% of the way.
08:03
<sag007>
ok
08:04
<Hyperbyte>
Installs LTSP5 automagically...
08:04
:)
08:04
<sag007>
i have one dhcp server in my network...(i cannot make change to this) if i install dhcp server in my machine will it cause any race conditions?
08:05
<Hyperbyte>
Don't install a dhcpd on your terminal server
08:05
Just use your existing one
08:05
<sag007>
oh
08:05
<ogra>
Hyperbyte, erm, you definately shouldnt install ltsp-client on the server
08:05
<sag007>
ok
08:05
<ogra>
<Hyperbyte> Then "yum install ltsp-client ltsp-server ltsp-utils"... finally ltsp-build-client... and then all that's left is configure DHCP
08:05
thats wrong
08:05
remove ltsp-client from that list
08:05
<Hyperbyte>
ogra: why not? ltsp-client provides "ltsp-build-client", which you need to get things running, no?
08:05
<ogra>
no
08:06
ltsp-server provides "ltsp-build-client"
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08:06
<ogra>
ltsp-client is only installed *inside* the client chroot by running "ltsp-build-client"
08:06
<Hyperbyte>
ogra: that's what I *assumed* as well.
08:06
<ogra>
never install that package on the server itself, else you trash your bootprocess
08:06
<Hyperbyte>
ogra: but check... ltsp-client does provide ltsp-build-client
08:06
And it didn't trash my boot process either...
08:06
<sag007>
yeah that happened to me ogra
08:07
<ogra>
http://wtogami.livejournal.com/23648.html
08:07
<sag007>
i installed ltsp-client
08:07
<ogra>
that has proper instructions for fedora
08:07
<sag007>
and its not booting up
08:07
<ogra>
right
08:07
<sag007>
is that any way i can recover it?
08:08
<ogra>
no idea
08:08
<sag007>
ok
08:08
<ogra>
i never used fedora
08:08
<sag007>
ok
08:08
<ogra>
yum install ltsp-server && ltsp-build-client
08:08
that should be the essential commands you need to start
08:08
echo "/opt/ltsp *(ro,async,no_root_squash)" >> /etc/exports
08:08
ifup ltspbr0
08:09
for service in xinetd ltsp-dhcpd rpcbind nfs sshd; do chkconfig $service on; service $service start; done
08:09
for server in ldminfod nbdrootd nbdswapd; do chkconfig $server on; done
08:09
that should be the post install lines you need
08:09
<sag007>
ok
08:09
<Hyperbyte>
ogra: are you sure all that is required in Fedora?
08:09
<ogra>
(grabbing from the blog entry here, there might be one ot the other thing missing warren can coment on)
08:09
<Hyperbyte>
Because ltsp seems to work fine for me out-of-the-box...
08:10
<ogra>
Hyperbyte, no idea, i just looked at the install instructions at warrens blof
08:10
*blog
08:10
its definately not needed in ubuntu, thats something i can tell you ;)
08:10
<sag007>
i want to boot some thin clients, i need tftp server and the kernel i guess
08:11
do you have any ideas about this guys?
08:11
<ogra>
(nor in debian)
08:11
<Hyperbyte>
ogra, I'm still a bit confused though. According to yum you are indeed right and ltsp-server provides the build client binary... but according to phone.net ltsp-client provides the build client binary...
08:11
<warren>
what the hell is phone.net?
08:11
<Hyperbyte>
Guess I got confused somewhere... anyway ltsp-client hasn't screwed up my boot process yet... guess I'll leave it out on my production server nonetheless...
08:11
*pbone.net
08:11
<warren>
ltsp-client does not provide client binaries
08:12
ltsp-client makes a chroot into a ltsp-client
08:13
Hyperbyte: did you install fedora from the live ltsp server media?
08:13
<Hyperbyte>
Nope.
08:14
Regular Fedora 9 install...
08:14
<warren>
ok, if you install it with regular fedora 9, then did you follow the instructions on the k12linux homepage?
08:15
https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/InstallGuide
08:16
<Hyperbyte>
warren: yes and no... I skipped 6, 7 and 8
08:16
And apparently also accidentially installed ltsp-build-client
08:16
<warren>
huh
08:17
<Hyperbyte>
** ltsp-client
08:17
<warren>
why did you skip 6, 7 and 8?
08:17
you don't want ltsp-client no the server
08:17
on the server
08:17
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah, I get that now... I did a google for what provides ltsp-build-client and it said ltsp-client. :S Guess I got confused there.
08:17
<warren>
" I did a google for what provides ltsp-build-client and it said ltsp-client. :S Guess I got confused there."
08:18
that is wrong.
08:18
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah, I see now..
08:18
<ogra>
http://www.google.de/search?q=what+provides+ltsp-build-client&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:de:unofficial&client=firefox-a
08:18
that definately gets me the ubuntu ltsp-server package as the first three hits :)
08:19
<Hyperbyte>
ogra: http://www.google.com/search?q=rpm+%22ltsp-build-client%22
08:19
:)
08:19
But I didn't read carefully enough, I might've been sleeping at the time.
08:19
warren: anyway, I skipped 6, 7 and 8 because I already have a network server here doing all those things...
08:20
<warren>
then you have a custom deployment outside of the scope of the documentation
08:20
Hyperbyte: the documentation assumes the simplest kind of deployment, which is an isolated network segment
08:20
<Hyperbyte>
warren: yeah, I noticed...
08:21
<ogra>
warren, you should make 6, 7 and 8 a ltsp-build-client plugin ;)
08:21
<Hyperbyte>
Figured it would work anyways though, which it did nicely.
08:22
<warren>
ogra: not really
08:22
<Hyperbyte>
warren: I have a server here doing routing between clients, internet and ltsp-server. It also does dhcpd and NIS+NFS...
08:22
warren: works without problems.
08:22
<ogra>
warren, why not ? it saves work
08:22
<warren>
ltsp-server is really confusing
08:22
<ogra>
and there is nothing in it you cant check for automatically so you wont trash user setups
08:23
<warren>
most of that is true.
08:24
<sag007>
where can i know what is ltsp-server used for ltsp-client ltsp-build-client used for guys
08:25
sorry about my bad english
08:26
<warren>
ogra: we really need to go ahead with the proposed split of ldm
08:27
ogra: ldm-client an ldm-server (containing ldminfod)
08:27
<ogra>
feel free
08:27
<sag007>
oh whats that ldm
08:27
<ogra>
err, no
08:27
<warren>
eh?
08:27
<ogra>
ldminfo and ldm rather :)
08:27
<sag007>
where can i find some documentation warren
08:27
<ogra>
dont change the old name please
08:27
<warren>
isn't ldm-server a lot more clear of a package name?
08:27
<ogra>
then call it ldminfo-server
08:28
that describes it even more precisely
08:28
<warren>
ldm-client and ldm-server at least would match each other.
08:28
<ogra>
changing ldm just produces a painful package transition
08:28
so please keep that
08:29
we had that with ldm vs ldm2 before
08:29
<warren>
painful package transition?
08:29
<ogra>
and decided to keep ldm
08:29
for me that means a week of paperwork, main inclusion reports, new security reviews etc in ubuntu ... i guess for vagrant its similar
08:30Q-FUNK has quit IRC
08:30
<cyberorg>
nubae, you got ldm-trunk working, i still get endless creating xauth errors on todays snapshot too
08:30
<ogra>
thats pointless
08:30
lets just keep ldm as is ... and add ldminfo-server
08:30
i would even buid it from the same source
08:30
but split out a separate binary
08:30
<nubae>
same here, ldm doesnt work
08:31
<ogra>
like we do with ldm-themes already
08:31
(though thats ubuntu specific (themes i mean))
08:32
<warren>
you mean add ldminfod to the ldm source tree?
08:32
<nubae>
I found a pretty big flaw in my fatclient script... since system groups are ignored, additions to them (ie, user in fuse) are not done
08:32
<ogra>
warren, move it from ltsp-server, yes and make it a dependency of ltsp-client
08:32
<warren>
ogra: that's exactly what I suggested
08:32
<ogra>
give it its own subdir in ldm-trunk
08:32
<warren>
ogra: we're only arguing about the sub-package name
08:33
<ogra>
ah, k
08:33
i thought you wanted its own bzr tree as well
08:33
<warren>
no need for that
08:33
<ogra>
i would do it like we do with ltspfs
08:33
that keeps naming consistency
08:34
ldm + ldminfod packages, like ltspfs and ltspfsd package
08:34
or if you insist ldminfo-server but thats less clear in the scheme
08:34
<warren>
I dislike ltspfs and ltspfsd scheme
08:34
anyhow we'll see what the other think
08:34
<ogra>
but its there
08:35
right, better to do on the ML i guess... or wiat until everyone is round
08:35
or thin ... :P *around i mean indeed
08:36
<warren>
I can achieve round.
08:36
<ogra>
btw, note that stgraber will take many of my ubuntu duties like packaging in the future ... i will try to only stay wiht upstream stuff
08:36
put my remaining time where it makes more sense etc ... the work on ubuntu-mobile and gnome mobile is eating a lot nowaday
08:37
<warren>
stgraber is employed by canonical?
08:38* ogra loves the fact that he can carry hs labs in his pockes now though :)
08:38
<ogra>
warren, nope
08:38
but he is working fulltime on ubuntu ltsp in his job
08:38
there are more companies than canonical participating in ubuntu ;)
08:38
<nubae>
nice position to be in
08:39
<ogra>
yes, i loved it when i had it myself
08:41* ogra wonders if warren has seen that beautiful MS ad http://www.vsubhash.com/writeups/multiboot_os.asp
08:41
<ogra>
:)
08:42
<warren>
ogra: yes, we have three sales people working that market.
08:42
<ogra>
haha
08:42
you know its a hoax, right ?
08:42
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:42
<nubae>
mornin sbalneav
08:42
well afternoon here
08:42
<ogra>
yeah
08:43
<warren>
ogra: what? we hired arabic speakers and everything.
08:43
<nubae>
:D
08:43
<ogra>
warren, damned, you are ahead of us ...
08:43* ogra quickly calls london
08:43
<ogra>
ubuquaida :)
08:44pimpministerp has joined #ltsp
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08:46
<warren>
ogra: we are already communists, might as well go further
08:46
<ogra>
lol
08:46
<warren>
communists are no longer the threat anymore
08:47
<ogra>
yeah, its so last century to be a communist
08:47
<nubae>
thats why u wear red hats
08:47
<ogra>
ubuntu is riding the red i a bron desktop :)
08:47
*hiding
08:47
*brown
08:47
bah, cant type
08:48
<nubae>
that almost sounds like danish or swedish
08:49
<ogra>
well, gernamy isnt to far away from denmark ...
08:49faxsxyxx has joined #ltsp
08:49
<warren>
ogra: we have hidden features like high availability and stealth operation. gotta survive law enforcement raids and such.
08:49
<ogra>
mmm, stealth ...
08:49
<warren>
all processes run in kernel space
08:49
ps sees nothing
08:50
<ogra>
hehe
08:50
<nubae>
where is org.freedesktop.hal.storage.mount-removable authorization file located?
08:50
I can get there from the gui, but need it from terminal
08:51
<ogra>
/usr/share/PolicyKit/policy/org.freedesktop.hal.storage.policy
08:51
<nubae>
thankd
08:51
thanks
09:00
<ogra>
stgraber, the tech board meeting starts now in case you want to be there for your upload approval
09:05
<nubae>
320€ for the inspiron mini with sas drive and atom processor running ubuntu
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09:05
<ogra>
the ubuntu alone is worth that the HW is just a free addition ;)
09:06
<nubae>
hehe, ubuntu really seems to be shining in the atom market... much faster than everything else
09:06
<ogra>
i think they also provide a bundle, where you can buy it as second laptop for 150€ ifyou buy a normal lappie
09:06
though that might only be for the US market, not sure
09:07
<nubae>
yeah only just started shipping in the uk
09:07
before it was only windows
09:07
<ogra>
but yeah, we do a lot with lpia (atom)
09:12
<stgraber>
ogra: oh, ok
09:15shogunx has quit IRC
09:20
<stgraber>
ogra: hmm looking at the wiki, I don't seem to be on the agenda :)
09:21
<ogra>
oh
09:21
they probably do it out of bounds, not sure
09:21
the last ones were approved in meeting though
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09:30
<sbalneav>
nubae: In the appendix, you have a section for adding hard drive rules, but you don't actually list the udev live to enable it.
09:30
You have the line handy>
09:30
?
09:33
<babyhuey>
anyone know why my ltsp clients would randomly freeze? they seem to lose connection and i have to go out and reboot them
09:34
<sbalneav>
babyhuey: Could be a whole lot of things
09:34
<babyhuey>
heh awesome
09:34
<sbalneav>
First off, what version of LTSP are you running, and on what server?
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09:35
<babyhuey>
is there an easy way to tell? i just started here a little while ago and havent had time to get to the bottom of it, but i think its 4 cause its been installed for a while
09:35
its on ubuntu though
09:36
<Gadi>
babyhuey: is it all the same hardware on the clients?
09:36
<babyhuey>
yea, the actual ltsp client from disklessworkstations
09:36
<Gadi>
which one?
09:37
<babyhuey>
the original one they offered
09:38
<ogra>
Gadi, the thin one :P
09:38
<Gadi>
hmm.... Jammin 125?
09:38
<babyhuey>
yep
09:39
<sbalneav>
Might be running out of ram, I think they only had 64 megs of memory.
09:39
do you have an /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf file?
09:39
<Gadi>
does it boot ok?
09:39
<babyhuey>
it boots fine, really quick no problems
09:39
<Gadi>
I see on the listserv issues with etherbooting those things
09:39
oh, ok
09:40
<babyhuey>
it gets a lot of use, it is used by ~50 people to clock in and out and onto different jobs
09:40
<Gadi>
LTSP 5?
09:40
or LTSP 4.2?
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09:40
<babyhuey>
LTSP 4
09:40
<nubae>
sbalneav: yeah, I suppose openoffice killed it
09:40
<Gadi>
yeah, could be ram as sbalneav says
09:40
<nubae>
hang on I'll paste it
09:41
<Gadi>
babyhuey: do you enable NBD_SWAP in lts.conf?
09:41
<Blinny>
Is there a way to remove the 'Switch User' option from the 'System->Quit' applet for Hardy Heron thin clients using Gnome?
09:42
<Gadi>
babyhuey: try setting: USE_NBD_SWAP = Y in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
09:42
<sbalneav>
Gadi: if it's 4, he'll want nfs swap
09:43
<Gadi>
not on 4.2
09:43
4.2 has NBD
09:43
4.1 had NFS
09:43
<babyhuey>
where can i tell which version im using?
09:44
<Gadi>
more /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/version
09:44
<babyhuey>
4.2 update 3
09:44
<Gadi>
then USE_NBD_SWAP = Y
09:44
<babyhuey>
what will that do?
09:44
<Gadi>
and reboot the terminal
09:45
that will use some server hard drive space as swap space for the terminal
09:45
so if it runs out of memory, it can use swap
09:45
<babyhuey>
ok
09:45
<sbalneav>
ogra: Have you made any contribs to the manual? I haven't currently got you listed as an author
09:45
<ogra>
nope
09:46
<sbalneav>
ok
09:46
<ogra>
not after it was moved over to bzr ... the only ones were reviews of your original work
09:46
which was a year ago for edubuntu
09:46
<babyhuey>
brb rebooting client
09:47
<sbalneav>
nubae: If you can paste me that line, I'll push a branch of the manual that's not perfect, but at least mostly readable now, with all of the major formatting in place.
09:48
<nubae>
ogra: I did however pull out a lot of stuff from edubuntu handbook
09:48
did u write that?
09:48
or was that sbalneav?
09:48
<ogra>
that was mainly scott, i only did reviews of tech stuff
09:49
<Gadi>
ogra: they've started selling mods for the eeepc to add touchscreen
09:50
I am so tempted to do it and try ur ume image
09:50
<nubae>
just got the following email: I hope there is progress on the documentation of Ubuntu/LTSP. In my last email to you I requested that if there is any assignment you will like to carry out in contributing to this documentation that i would be glad to contribute, i have not heard from you since.
09:50
whats the policy on getting others involved in documentation?
09:51
<Gadi>
proper grammar and diction - oh, who am I kidding?
09:51
;)
09:51
<ogra>
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/
09:51
feel free
09:51
<sbalneav>
nubae: I'd say have them branch a copy of the docs, and submit patches.
09:51
<ogra>
it should actually run on anything that can boot from usb
09:51
<sbalneav>
if they're consistently good, add them to the ltsp-docs team.
09:53
<ltsppbot>
"Nubae" pasted "enabling local thin client harddrive" (4 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/24
09:53
<ogra>
"In the lts.conf file add LOCALDEV=True"
09:53
not needed
09:54
<Gadi>
and the rest is a bit cryptic
09:54
:)
09:54
<ogra>
yeah
09:54
<nubae>
well, the reason its cyrptic is cause distros all do stuff in their own way
09:54
on ubuntu its 050-ltspfsd-rules
09:54
<Gadi>
hmm, how about it doesnt make the docs then?
09:54
until we have an lts.conf flag for it
09:54
<nubae>
on debian something else, on fedora something else and in suse totally different
09:54
<ogra>
nubae, which might be wrong even
09:55
<Gadi>
this aint a hacks doc, is it?
09:55
<ogra>
050 is way to low imho
09:55
<nubae>
Gadi: it is in the appendix
09:55
<Gadi>
lol
09:55* Gadi looks around for technical writing professor...
09:56* Gadi thinks: don't send someone under the roof of the car you sold them with a flasshlight and a rock
09:57
<nubae>
sbalneav: we should put up the manual in a findable place too... like ltsp.org or some other webpage
09:57
<sbalneav>
Gadi: Feel free to branch a copy and start editing.
09:57
<nubae>
heh
09:57
<ogra>
nubae, thats the plan
09:58
<Gadi>
I am IRC editing ;)
09:58
<ogra>
but only as pdf or html export from the branch
09:58
<Gadi>
is this not peer review?
09:58
<nubae>
Gadi: so rewrite the hard drive part and paste to pastebot ;-)
09:58
<Gadi>
my rewrite is a delete
09:58
<sbalneav>
nubae: there's still not a udev rule in that paste.
09:59
<nubae>
ah right, one sec...
10:00tutu has joined #ltsp
10:01
<nubae>
ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_TYPE}=="disk", ATTRS{removable}!="1", RUN+="ltspfs_entry add %k"
10:01
<sbalneav>
I've just spent about 10 hours over the last two days getting this back in shape. I'd say before we begin peicemeal hacking the document apart, or taking things out, we should all have a look at the whole thing, set aside a time to discuss it in toto, and then we can make the changes rationally.
10:01tutu is now known as Pascal_1
10:01
<nubae>
but the line is already there, it just needs taking out #
10:01
in udev rules I mean
10:01
<sbalneav>
And until I get it complete, and readable, there's no point in that. I'm trying to get that task accomplished today.
10:03
<nubae>
has the udev rule for usb devices been fixed in Intrepid yet?
10:03
<ltsppbot>
"Gadi" pasted "Enabling local thin client har" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/25
10:03
<stgraber>
ogra: so, not this TB ... let's hope it'll be able to do it by mail soon enough so it can still be useful for Intrepid
10:04
<ogra>
yeah
10:04
<Gadi>
pasted
10:04
<ogra>
well, i can always sponsor still
10:04warren has quit IRC
10:05
<nubae>
Gadi: looks good :-)
10:05
if you are crazy enough... lol
10:06
<Gadi>
:)
10:07
<sbalneav>
I'm just going to run a spell check, then I'll push
10:10sag007 has left #ltsp
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10:14
<ogra>
stgraber, so with that fix discussed in -devel its only one comment to remove i the rules file for local HDs
10:14
s/i/in/
10:15
since its only a packaging change i can do the reordering quickly
10:16
<stgraber>
ogra: I don't want local HDs personaly, not sure if we should turn it on.
10:16
<ogra>
no, we shouldnt
10:16
but its easy to enable with these rules
10:17Gadi has joined #ltsp
10:17
<ogra>
to sad debian doesnt go with udev upstream :/
10:17
<stgraber>
ok, so let's keep that rule commented
10:17* ogra doesnt like to have to hack up vagrants package
10:18
<stgraber>
btw, I just got my invitation for the UDS :)
10:18
<ogra>
cool !
10:19
so i'll see you in mountainview :)
10:19
<stgraber>
and in Maine before then :)
10:20
(you come to BTS right ?)
10:20
<ogra>
not sure yet, there are some personal issues
10:21
<cliebow>
stgraber:you coming to Maine??
10:22
I HATE WINDOWS
10:22
I HATE COMPUTERS
10:22
<ogra>
just dont use them
10:22
<stgraber>
cliebow: yeah
10:22* ogra hands cliebow an abacus
10:23
<cliebow>
hand me j45p3r please..my windows guru
10:23
<nubae>
hey, building a client just from cdrom and not internet, can be done with --copy-package-sources right?
10:23
ah.. not cdrom... cache
10:23
<cliebow>
dns went South internally last night..cant figure out what happened
10:24
<ogra>
--mirror file:///cdrom
10:24
<nubae>
and I guess for cdrom just adding --
10:24
<ogra>
(note the three slashes)
10:24
<nubae>
oops...
10:24
k... anyone tested that that works?
10:25
<ogra>
the CD install uses that
10:25Loto has quit IRC
10:25
<ogra>
it doesnt work atm because the PAckages files were removed fro the CDs and apt didnt get adjusted yet
10:25
but it will work for final release
10:25
(and did/does in hardy)
10:26wwx has quit IRC
10:26
<nubae>
ok, someone on a slower network asked me about that, I figured mirror would do it, but wasnt sure
10:26wwx has joined #ltsp
10:28
<ogra>
you likely also need "--security-mirror none"
10:28Blinny has quit IRC
10:28
<ogra>
else it will start looking for security updates on the network
10:29* ogra ges back to compile xserver-xomap
10:29
<ogra>
stgraber, mail forwarded btw ... make sure your spamfilter doesnt swallo it again :)
10:30
<stgraber>
ogra: yeah got it, looks like I had some issues with gmail SMTP servers recently :)
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10:56
<sbalneav>
I am really, REALLY getting annoyed with bzr here.
10:57
bzr: ERROR: Operation denied because it would change the main history, which is not permitted by the append_revisions_only setting on branch "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/ltsp/ltsp-docs-sbalneav/".
10:57
What am I doing wrong?
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10:58
<ogra>
what are you doing ?
10:59
<sbalneav>
Well, I'm trying to push back up my updated branch of my docs
10:59
bzr push bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/ltsp/ltsp-docs-sbalneav
10:59
<ogra>
so you merge your changed branch into the trunk and then push that, right ?
11:00
? bzr+ssh ?
11:00
<sbalneav>
bzr push lp:~sbalneav/ltsp/ltsp-docs-sbalneav
11:00
bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Esbalneav/ltsp/ltsp-docs-sbalneav/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
11:01* ogra doesnt get why thats inder ltsp and
11:01
<ogra>
-and
11:01
so you made it owned by ltsp instead of ltsp-docwriters ?
11:02
well, it should work though
11:03
but it might be your email is wrong or your clock is off or something
11:03
or your lpusername isnt set properly
11:04
ogra@osiris:~/Devel/packages/casper-1.139$ cat /home/ogra/.bazaar/bazaar.conf
11:04
[DEFAULT]
11:04
launchpad_username = ogra
11:04
email = Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com>
11:04
check thats set properly
11:04plamengr has joined #ltsp
11:05
<ogra>
and your ssh key is on that machine (launchpad_username being wrong or ssh key not available makes the lp: transport fall back to http)
11:06japerry has quit IRC
11:07
<sbalneav>
Well, adding my launchpad username fixed the lp: problem, but I've still got the main history problem
11:07
So I did a bzr branch lp:...ltsp-docs-trunk ltsp-docs-sbalneav
11:08|Paradox| has quit IRC
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11:08
<sbalneav>
I've been editing it, and committing it.
11:08
so now I'm just trying to push it back up
11:10* ogra never used append_revisions_only ...
11:10
<ogra>
ask the perso who told you to set it :)
11:10
<sbalneav>
That was vagrant
11:11
<ogra>
did you do your changes in the checked out branch ? or did you create one from scratch
11:11Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp
11:12
<sbalneav>
Well I did a bzr branch <ltsp-docs-trunk> ltsp-docs-sbalneav
11:12
<ogra>
well, then your forst change should have a higher revision
11:12
<sbalneav>
I thought that was what I was supposed to do.
11:14
Yeah, the last rev on -trunk is 17, my first commit on -sbalneav is 18
11:18
<ogra>
i see -19 on lp
11:18
19. By Scott Balneaves <sbalneav@phobos> 11 hours ago
11:18
More reformatting to get back into shape
11:18
are you sure you worked on the right branch ?
11:19mhterres has joined #ltsp
11:19
<sbalneav>
sbalneav@feniks:~/src/bzr$ cd ltsp-docs-trunk/
11:19
sbalneav@feniks:~/src/bzr/ltsp-docs-trunk$ bzr update
11:19
Tree is up to date at revision 17.
11:19
sbalneav@feniks:~/src/bzr/ltsp-docs-trunk$ bzr pull
11:19
Using saved location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk/
11:19
No revisions to pull.
11:19
<ogra>
well, i'm not talking about trunk
11:19
https://code.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/ltsp/ltsp-docs-sbalneav
11:19
that has revision 19 as last one
11:19
from 11h ago
11:20
you cnt push a revision 18 to that indeed
11:20
<sbalneav>
Well, I did some work last night, but I did a bzr pull thismorning on my branch here at work
11:20
<ogra>
and does it have that revision 18 and 19 ?
11:22
<sbalneav>
sbalneav@feniks:~/src/bzr/ltsp-docs-sbalneav$ bzr merge lp:~sbalneav/ltsp/ltsp-docs-sbalneav
11:22
Nothing to do.
11:23
<ogra>
merge ?
11:23
you mean pull, right ?
11:23
<sbalneav>
I've tried both
11:24
cripes
11:24
bzr pull lp:~sbalneav/ltsp/ltsp-docs-sbalneav
11:24
bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/usr/legal/home/sbalneav/src/bzr/ltsp-docs-sbalneav/lp:~sbalneav/ltsp/ltsp-docs-sbalneav/".
11:24
<ogra>
bzr log|less shows you have the right branch ? (history is identical to whats shown at https://code.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/ltsp/ltsp-docs-sbalneav up to v19 ? )
11:24
<sbalneav>
Somethings out of sync
11:24
<ogra>
yeah
11:24
<sbalneav>
sigh
11:25
<ogra>
so wat does bzr log say in your current branch ?
11:25nubae has quit IRC
11:25
<ogra>
do you have v18 and 19
11:25
as eth webpage describes ?
11:26wwx has quit IRC
11:26nubae has joined #ltsp
11:28
<sbalneav>
<rant>You know, I'm really REALLY beginning to question why the h*ll I'm still involved in this project. I can't seem to wrap my mind around packaging, so I'm becoming progressivly more useless in providing patches, I can't seem to wrap my mind around either LP or bzr, so I'm constantly f****** things up, and end up spending more time trying to figure out how to get the toolchain to work as opposed to actually improving the project.
11:28japerry has joined #ltsp
11:29
<sbalneav>
sigh, ok, I'll just save the LTSPManual.xml, re-branch from myself, etc...
11:29
2 seconds
11:29
<ogra>
sbalneav, do you have v18 and 19 in your current branch ?
11:29
<sbalneav>
18 yes, 19 no
11:29
<ogra>
aha
11:29
well, you didnt pull this morning then
11:30
<sbalneav>
Well, I did, but I did it wrong.
11:30
<ogra>
ah
11:30
<sbalneav>
I'm assumung
11:30
<ogra>
wrong place i guess
11:30
(i.e, in the subdir instead of the branch parent)
11:34
<sbalneav>
Ok.
11:34
there
11:34
now it's pushing
11:35
nubae Gadi ogra et al: have a look at lp:~sbalneav/ltsp/ltsp-docs-sbalneav
11:36Guest77263 is now known as johnny
11:36
<sbalneav>
There's still a fair number of formatting problems, but at least I've managed to get all the code samples into <screen></screen> blocks, etc.
11:36
A lot of the big problems have been eliminated.
11:37
<cliebow>
sbalneav:but we love you
11:37
<sbalneav>
I'm not sure of the order of things, nubae, you moved some stuff around, and we may not want things in that order, but we can sort all that out.
11:41
I'll set up an LTSP5 doco page on the twiki, and upload the current versions of the docs.
11:43Lns has joined #ltsp
11:43Pascal_1 has quit IRC
11:45
<nubae>
sbalneav: I move it around so it would make more sense, like installation before updating the chroot, etc
11:46wwx has joined #ltsp
11:47
<sbalneav>
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
11:47
ok, both the HTML and PDF versions are there.
11:48
!docs
11:48
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "docs" is For the best place to learn about LTSP5, please see the Edubuntu Handbook at http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
11:48
<ogra>
hmm
11:48
local media would have been the place where i would have looked up localdev
11:48
<sbalneav>
ltspbot: learn docs as For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
11:48
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
11:48
<johnny>
gentlemen
11:48
<sbalneav>
!docs
11:48
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "docs" is (#1) For the best place to learn about LTSP5, please see the Edubuntu Handbook at http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/, or (#2) For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
11:48
<ogra>
"Ubuntu LTSP - Educational Version CD installation" ??
11:48
<johnny>
including ogra
11:49
this time..
11:49
<sbalneav>
You have no chance to survive make your time
11:49
<johnny>
hehe :)
11:49
<sbalneav>
all your base are belong to us
11:49
<ogra>
why did you call it "Educational Version" ?
11:49
<nubae>
that was me
11:49
<johnny>
sbalneav, also .. the intro to "aqua teen hunger force"
11:49
<nubae>
thought that was what it was called?
11:49
<sbalneav>
That's what was in there, I havem
11:49
I didn't change content on this, just formatting.
11:49
<ogra>
just call it "Ubuntu LTSP - CD installation"
11:49
<sbalneav>
So that needs to be fixed.
11:50
<nubae>
ok, I was trying to refer to edubuntu
11:50
<johnny>
eduxbuntuk
11:50
err
11:50
eduxbuntuk studio edution edition
11:50
<ogra>
"With the Hardy Heron (8.04) release" .... "Starting with the Hardy Heron (8.04) release"
11:51
<johnny>
you could catch all the ubuntu distros with that :)
11:51
<ogra>
johnny, so did you have anything to say ?
11:51
beyond "gentlemen" ?
11:51
<johnny>
not about the docs.. sorry
11:51
<ogra>
sounded liek a start of something ... a speech probably ...
11:51
<johnny>
no. it was more of a greeting
11:51
<sbalneav>
ogra: ok, fixed those two issues
11:51
<ogra>
sbalneav, gracias
11:51
<johnny>
scott understood
11:52
<sbalneav>
ok, I have to pop out and renew my passport
11:52
I'll be back in an hour.
11:52
<johnny>
otherwise they might kick you right outa here!
11:52
<nubae>
sbalneav: theres a part in there written by Lns too
11:52* Lns gets startled
11:52
<sbalneav>
ok, what's lns's real name
11:52
Lns: what's your real name
11:52
<johnny>
jordan e :)
11:52
<Lns>
heh
11:52
<ogra>
is anywhere mentioned that ltsp-build-client --help/--extra-help will list all available commands for your distro ?
11:52
<Lns>
where everyone knows your name! =)
11:52
it's jordan erickson
11:52
<sbalneav>
ok
11:52
<nubae>
ogra: no...
11:53
<johnny>
not erikssen
11:53
<ogra>
mention that :)
11:53
<sbalneav>
hold on, adding to authors
11:53
<Lns>
lol
11:53
<sbalneav>
Lns: added
11:54
<Lns>
sbalneav, what doc is this?
11:54
<sbalneav>
!docs
11:54
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "docs" is (#1) For the best place to learn about LTSP5, please see the Edubuntu Handbook at http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/, or (#2) For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
11:54
<sbalneav>
argh
11:54
<johnny>
scott fails
11:54
<sbalneav>
forgot to forget 1
11:54
<nubae>
http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#AEN1099 thats yours lns
11:54
<sbalneav>
ltspbot: forget docs
11:54
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: Error: 2 factoids have that key. Please specify which one to remove, or use * to designate all of them.
11:54
<johnny>
so what's the word on jordan's bug about *-updates in sources.list?
11:55
<sbalneav>
ltspbot: forget docs 1
11:55
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
11:55
<sbalneav>
!docs
11:55
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
11:55
<Lns>
thx sbalneav :)
11:55
<johnny>
Lns, what is lns ?
11:55
<sbalneav>
ok, back on in a bit
11:55
<Lns>
johnny, logicalnetworking.net
11:55
<johnny>
not as good as j$xe
11:55
<Lns>
jeez i come in this morning and people are talking about me ;)
11:56
<johnny>
err j${x}e
11:56
whatever x is
11:56
i'm my own person.. not my company :)
11:56
otherwise i'd be lmi..
11:56
<Lns>
hehe
11:56
i like my company.. :)
11:56* johnny eats it for breakfast
11:56
<ogra>
nubae, SCREEN_01 is reserved (you say to please use 01-12
11:57
<nubae>
I didnt say that, the edubuntu handbook did ;-)
11:57
:p
11:57
<ogra>
XDM_SERVER ... not used by anyone to my knowledge
11:57
at least debian and ubuntu ignore it deliberately
11:58
err
11:58
XFS_SERVER i mean
11:58
as well as USE_XFS
11:59
hmm, and it doesnt mention X_MONITOR_OPTION
11:59
(or was taht DISPLAY_OPTION ... i forgot)
11:59
<nubae>
maybe you can note whats missing in there, there are probably some new options and some obsolete options
12:00
<ogra>
the sampel lts.conf has LDM_REMOTECOMMAND ... thats LDM_SESSION
12:00
nowadays
12:01gate_keeper_ has joined #ltsp
12:02
<johnny>
it'd be nice to have a live snapshot of lts-parameters.txt in the docs
12:03* Lns still needs to whip together a sample /etc/ltsp/README to propose, with pointers to docs, other configs, etc
12:04
<nubae>
johnny: live snapshot?
12:05
<Lns>
nubae, i see a typo in the doc - "sudo killall -u <username firefox"
12:06
<johnny>
Lns, readme files dont' go in /etc
12:07
<nubae>
they shouldnt, but I know many programs that do put them there :D
12:07wwx has quit IRC
12:07
<Lns>
johnny, well, somewhere where people will find it anyway, without reverting to google/irc ;)
12:07wwx has joined #ltsp
12:07
<Lns>
johnny, I know debian likes putting readmes in /etc/ for various packages, just for quick notes on syntax, etc
12:08
<nubae>
It'd be nice to have some better documentation on sabayon and pessulus
12:09
<Lns>
is sabayon working in ubuntu yet?
12:09
<johnny>
there's this thing called /usr/share/docs Lns :)
12:09
Lns, sorta
12:09
i didn't get time to work on it during this cycle
12:09
too much other stuff going on
12:09
can't afford it yet
12:11
<Lns>
johnny, maybe i can look through the docs today, are we getting close to finalizing docs? i'm not sure abut the process, but maybe there's some stuff from my wiki we can add?
12:11
i've been working hard to document everything i deal with re: ltsp there, and i want to port it to the ubuntu/ltsp/edubuntu wikis too
12:11
if it seems sensible to anyway
12:13
<nubae>
sabayon works... but definetly far from perfection
12:14
but Ive used it with pesselus to lock down desktops by groups
12:14
<johnny>
part of the problem is that there was gio python bindings for a long time
12:14
<Lns>
i've always wanted to try it but it always crashed..but i've figured out some cool ways to lock down gnome via gconf only
12:15
<nubae>
Lns: check the appendix, thats where we put all the little hacks and howtos
12:15
<Lns>
not that it's advanced stuff at all, but it works for me :)
12:15
<nubae>
the majority of questions are from beginning ltsp users
12:15
<Lns>
nubae, k
12:16
<nubae>
and branch the ltsp-docs-trunk from launchpad, that way u can submit patches
12:17
hmmm how do I awk or sed a string and take the line that has that string and paste those lines to a file
12:17
?
12:17
<Lns>
nubae, ok..will have to dig into lp to figure that out ;) /me is still a lp noob ;)
12:19
nubae, wouldn't piping awk/sed do fine, w/redirection?
12:19
sed s/tochange/changeto/g filename > newfile
12:19
<nubae>
I'm not great with sed and awk, it hurty my head :-)
12:20
<Lns>
hehe
12:20
<nubae>
s/hurty/hurts
12:20
<Lns>
nubae, do you just need to find lines in a file and print them to a new file or change the lines you find in the original file?
12:20
<nubae>
I dont need to change anything though,
12:20
<Lns>
nubae, use grep then
12:21
grep <pattern> file > newfile
12:21
<nubae>
I'm looking at the /etc/group, and taking all the groups that have at least 'admin user' in the line
12:22
hmmm, maybe that will work, let me try, Im probably complicating matters for no reasons
12:22dmaran has quit IRC
12:22
<Lns>
nubae, yeah i wouldn't use sed/awk to simply find matching lines..unless part of the line you don't want to reprint, you could use awk or cut maybe
12:23* Lns just learned about 'tee' the other day
12:23
<nubae>
tee?
12:23
<Lns>
nubae, man tee ;)
12:23
<nubae>
lol, grep works just fine...
12:24
<ogra>
tee is like cat
12:24
just better
12:24
err
12:24
echo
12:25* nubae is starting to love bash
12:25
<Lns>
ogra, yeah.. i tried echoing the -updates line into chroot sources.list but i needed to use tee
12:25
<ogra>
only if you use sudo :)
12:26
but yes, tee is the little echo frined of sudo
12:26
<Lns>
ogra, correct =)
12:27
be back in a bit
12:27Lns has quit IRC
12:27
<ogra>
nubae, the line you mention in 25.1 is already in the udev rules by default
12:27
and as i said, LOCALDEV is true by default as well
12:27
<nubae>
it is, but its commented out
12:27
it was just to show what the line looks like
12:28
<ogra>
25.2. should probably also mention that nbd booting is about three times as fast as nfs booting
12:28
<nubae>
ah yes true....
12:29
<ogra>
so tell the user that he has to remove the comment sign in front of the line ;)
12:29
the text doesnt say that
12:29
an illiterate user would probably add a line
12:29zamba has left #ltsp
12:29
<ogra>
also note that this will be overwritten automatically on upgrades
12:29
<nubae>
heh, Gadi wrote a better write up of that anyway
12:29
<ogra>
the file is owned by the package
12:30
<nubae>
yeah rightly so... I dont see why people really need it, but it was asked on here a couple of times, so I answered the question on how to do it, and added to docs
12:30
we can always take it out completely
12:31
<ogra>
nubae, what Gadi wrote there is totally wrong
12:31* ogra just looked at the paste
12:31
<ogra>
we ship that special line for HDDs since two releases
12:31
its just removing the comment sign that makes it used
12:32
no hacking up of REMOVABLE settings or anything
12:32
<nubae>
Gadi: ^^ :P
12:32
<Gadi>
hey, I'm still on Gutsy ( Hardy has way too many bugs...) ;)
12:32
<ogra>
on a sidenote if you want it persistent, you should add a new file
12:32
and put the line in there
12:32* Gadi runs
12:32
<ogra>
that wont get overwritten on upgrades
12:33* ogra just pretends to not hear Gadi
12:33
<Gadi>
so, things are normal
12:33
:)
12:33* ogra wonders why the channel scrolls :P
12:33
<nubae>
I'm pretty happy with intrepid, though I know not much has been done on ltsp side, the os seems to have had a lot of changes and bug fixes
12:34
<ogra>
a lot has been done upstream
12:34
not much has been done *by me* this time
12:34
so the packages just use the new upstream changes but beyond that are mostly hardy packages
12:35
nubae, with jaunty stgraber will take much of my part ... you should see improvements there
12:35
<nubae>
hardy got some real bad press
12:35
<ogra>
i will try to concentrate on upstream work in my sparetime
12:35
<nubae>
cool
12:35
<ogra>
(which is rather "raretime" since i work on ubuntu mobile)
12:35
<nubae>
I'm trying to get my head around motu, but its not that obvious... spec files seem much simpler :p
12:36
<ogra>
but i might implement arm support for clients in jaunty :)
12:36
<nubae>
that would be neat
12:36
but without wireless ltsp, seems a bit pointless
12:36
<ogra>
the beagelboard makes the best thin client i have ever seen
12:36
http://beagleboard.org/
12:37
<nubae>
thats pretty damn small
12:37
<ogra>
and fast
12:38
and uses 10% of the energy an x86 client uses
12:38
and is DVI/HDMI by default
12:38
and and and ...
12:38
<nubae>
what are people using it for?
12:38
<ogra>
development
12:39
i know some projects that build digital videorecorders etc with it
12:39
arm is so advanced over intel
12:40
<nubae>
hey has there been any more development on using ltsp over usb?
12:41
<ogra>
nope
12:42
btw
12:42
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2560585344.html
12:42
it has two CPUs ... an arm and a intel builtin
12:42Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp
12:43
<ogra>
in arm mode it can run several days on one battery charge
12:43shogunx has quit IRC
12:43
<ogra>
(while being used)
12:45
<nubae>
I hope wireless bandwidth becomes fast enough for wireless, that will allow for some real cool stuff
12:45
lol, ltsp
12:46Lns has joined #ltsp
12:46ATA_Dark_Shadow has quit IRC
12:47
<johnny>
nubae, also real high on battery suckign :)
12:47shogunx has joined #ltsp
12:47
<ogra>
54M are fine for basic use
12:47
but you still wont see any PXE implementation in WLAN
12:48
<nubae>
well doesnt need it... we can put the bootstrap on usb or sd or whatever
12:48
<ogra>
you can even put it into initramfs
12:48
but still need local media
12:48
<Lns>
!docs
12:48
<ltspbot>
Lns: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
12:49
<nubae>
I know stgraber has done that
12:49
<ogra>
and its not massively safe
12:49
<nubae>
fortunately most implementations are schools and not banks :p
12:49
<ogra>
since you have the keys unencrypted on the key
12:50
s/key/ USB key/
12:50epoxy|w3rk has joined #ltsp
12:50
<Gadi>
nubae: I can sell you a Symbiont Boot Stick
12:50
:)
12:50
totally encrypted
12:50
<ogra>
Gadi, bah, first fix the themeing
12:50
<Gadi>
:P
12:50
<ogra>
:)
12:50
<Gadi>
:)
12:50
<ogra>
Gadi, you always ignore the important stuff
12:50* Gadi hangs head in shame
12:51
<nubae>
how many clients can u run with wireless?
12:51* ogra guesses that really depends on the amount of APs you have
12:51
<Gadi>
nubae: depends upon protocol, quality of access point, and app server protocol
12:51
<nubae>
how about running the traffic through ejabberd?
12:52
<Lns>
Gadi: what's wrong with the theming in the bootsticks?
12:52
<nubae>
thats how the xos are doing all communication and allows them to scale to about 4000 concurrent connections
12:52
<Gadi>
Lns: ogra prefers a more modern gtk theme
12:52
;)
12:52
<Lns>
Does ldm handle gtk?
12:52
<Gadi>
rounded buttons and all
12:52* Gadi thinks ogra works for apple in his raretime ;)
12:53
<Lns>
lol
12:53
<ogra>
well, *any* theme as opposed to no themeing at al and looking like 80s
12:53* Lns thinks ldm should be converted to 80x24
12:53* Gadi goes back to playing Pong...
12:53
<ogra>
Lns, write a greeter for it, its capable of using different one
12:53
you could have a whiptail greeter :)
12:53
<Lns>
that would rule!
12:53
<ogra>
or a TCL one
12:54
<Lns>
or ncurses!
12:54
<ogra>
(whiptail == ncurses ;) )
12:54
<Lns>
ogra: this is OT but I've been wondering the past couple weeks
12:54
(oops)
12:54
how come Ubuntu never uses the cool question dialogs that Debian (used to?) uses? like when you install exim, it asks you what type of mailserver and configures it accordingly
12:55
Ubuntu seems to just set its own defaults and makes you go in manually whenever you install packages
12:55wigwam has quit IRC
12:56
<Gadi>
I have an even more OT qu: does anyone know the real story behind via drivers? afaict, there are 4: via OSS, openchrome, unichrome, and via commercial from their website
12:56
<johnny>
laga_, that's an apt setting
12:56
oops
12:56
<Gadi>
has anyone not written a via driver?
12:56
:)
12:57
<johnny>
Lns, that's an apt-get setting
12:57
you can make it bug you with the most trivial nonsense.. or just the most critical questions
12:57
<Lns>
johnny: oh! jeez, i never knew that
12:57
i guess *buntu's default is to never bug you
12:58
<johnny>
yep
12:58
<ogra>
not really apt-get
12:58
<johnny>
well true ogra
12:58
<ogra>
its a debconf default
12:58
<johnny>
debconf
12:58
that's it
12:58
<ogra>
if you use an ubuntu alternate CD in expert mode
12:58
<johnny>
Lns, btw.. i am no APT expert
12:58
:)
12:58
<ogra>
you get exactly a debian install
12:59
with 400 questions before the install starts :P
12:59
<Lns>
ah
12:59
<johnny>
i don't have super cow powers
12:59
ogra does tho
12:59
<Lns>
apt-get moo ?
12:59
<ogra>
yeah
12:59
<johnny>
does it really require moo?
12:59
i thought it just said that :)
12:59
<ogra>
the manpage says it
13:00
moo does something else :)
13:00
<Lns>
moo is only for advanced users
13:00
<ogra>
ah, no, not the manpage, it was apt-get --help
13:01
its even properly translated :)
13:01
<johnny>
yes.. apt-get --help
13:01
ogra is a super cow
13:01
<Lns>
haha
13:01
<ogra>
moo
13:01
<nubae>
lol
13:01
<Lns>
my old roomates and i would always moo when arriving at the house to announce ourselves
13:02
<ogra>
Gadi, upstream uses one of the via ones (openchrome i think) as base to write up a new one
13:03
but via also provides one
13:04* Lns wonders how cool it would be to integrate chroot updates into update-manager, kind of like a separate prompt for dist upgrades
13:07
<sbalneav>
Back
13:07
<nubae>
Lns: its easy enough to grab the package list
13:08
doesnt suse do something similar?
13:08
<Lns>
dunno..i know they have the whole 1-click install and Easy-LTSP gui
13:08* Lns might whip together a simple script to e-mail when chroot updates are available
13:08
<nubae>
sbalneav: ogra and co mentioned some changes to docs... I wrote them down here... should I send them to you or do a brz patch?
13:09
<ogra>
sure do a brz branch :)
13:10
<Gadi>
ogra: well, so far, I find that via, openchrome, and via from website all have different cpabilities
13:10
and support different chipsets
13:10
lol
13:10
<ogra>
yeah
13:10
<Gadi>
with the one from the website being the best
13:10
<sbalneav>
nubae: Either way's fine, whatever's easiest
13:10sepski has joined #ltsp
13:11
<ogra>
right, but thats because its written by the manufacturer ...
13:11
thats like the intel graphics driver
13:11* ogra declares it beer o'clock
13:11
<sbalneav>
Man, Hardy's really kicking my butt here. Every once in a while I'm getting "slowdowns" being reported by my users: lags in typing, etc. I'm wondering if there's something kernel-wise or network driver wise that's affecting me.
13:12* Lns cheers's ogra
13:12
<ogra>
sbalneav, xcb xlib changes ?
13:13
thats what i suspected but i'm not deep enough into xlibs for really verifying
13:13
cheers :)
13:13* Lns can't believe how much of his documentation made it into the official docs :)
13:14
<johnny>
that's what you get for bein so swell
13:14
<nubae>
sbalneav: u are not the only one.... hardy has been kicking everyone's butt
13:15
<Lns>
sbalneav: could it simply be network congestion? ...bittorrent comes to mind ;)
13:15
<Gadi>
sbalneav: anacron kicking in?
13:17* nubae has never seen as much irc traffic as today
13:17* ogra sends nubae to #ubuntu for 1h
13:17
<Gadi>
1 millionth message gets a free eggroll
13:17
<nubae>
on #ltsp
13:17
:p
13:17
<ogra>
Gadi ?
13:17
1
13:17
2
13:17
3
13:17
4
13:17
5
13:17
6
13:17
7
13:18
8
13:18
<Gadi>
that eggroll's mine!
13:18
<ogra>
9
13:18leio_ is now known as leio
13:18
<ogra>
20
13:18
<nubae>
yeah #ubuntu is kinda useless... before anyone gets a chance to answer, the question has scrolled by :-)
13:18* Gadi thinks ogra is like my son - I know he can count to a million, but somehow he always quits too soon
13:18* ogra started in #ubuntu
13:19
<ogra>
Gadi, my prob was that i typoed :P
13:19
<nubae>
when there were 50 users probably not 1000
13:19
<Lns>
nubae: actually i've had some pretty good responses in #ubuntu before..you just have to use ALL CAPS ;)
13:19
<ogra>
there were around 400 at my time
13:20
<nubae>
what did u use before ubuntu?
13:20
<ogra>
and many of the people in #ubuntu-devel were actually doing active support
13:20
debian
13:20* Lns has been a debian zealot forever
13:21* ogra used slackware in '96, then suse for some weeks, then redhat for some months and then debian forever until ubuntu cam with exactly the setup i alway used in my custom debian CDs
13:21
<nubae>
I was on gentoo before ubuntu and debian
13:22
<Lns>
oh noes! a gentoo guy! =p
13:22* Lns runs
13:22
<nubae>
johnny is a gentoo guy :-)
13:22
<ogra>
nah
13:22
johnny is a ubuntu guy who pretends to be gentoo :P
13:22
<johnny>
ogra, you wish
13:22
gentoo since 2002
13:22
<ogra>
:)
13:23
<nubae>
hah
13:23
<Lns>
lol
13:23* nubae loves the distro wars
13:23
<johnny>
i'm not warring.. ubuntu has a lovely place at red emma's
13:23
and on my gf's laptop
13:23Pascal_1 has left #ltsp
13:23
<Lns>
I used Redhat first, 5.1 i believe sometime around 95..then mandrake, then debian... I really like slackware though, and bsd (i know, not the same) is actually pretty elite ;)
13:23
<nubae>
heh, I believe I started with freebsd
13:24
<johnny>
i ran ubuntu on my personal laptop for 8 months
13:24
it sucked tho
13:24
too old packages
13:24toscalix has joined #ltsp
13:24
<ogra>
heh
13:24
<nubae>
use sidux then ::D
13:25
<johnny>
the .deb format is irritating to me
13:25
i deal with it.. cuz ubuntu uses it.. but i don't like touching it
13:25
<nubae>
jeez thats the best part of debian and ubuntu
13:25
<johnny>
the array of packages available is the best part :)
13:25
<ogra>
its not different to rpm ... it only lives from debian-policy
13:25
<johnny>
ogra, i like my ebuilds :)
13:26
<ogra>
the technical stuff is as trivial as rpm's
13:26
<Lns>
debian had solid dependency support since before people coined the term 'dependency hell' ;)
13:26
<ogra>
what makes it advanced over everything is the policy
13:26
<johnny>
i wish rpm would die
13:26
and use .deb
13:26
<ogra>
tell that to ISVs
13:26
(or to warren)
13:26
<nubae>
rpms are a hell of a lot easier to package
13:26
<laga_>
LSB ftw :(
13:27
<johnny>
ebuilds are nice to package :)
13:27* ogra desnt find rpms easier to package
13:27
<nubae>
thats cause ogra is a super cow :p
13:27
<laga_>
neither do i. but i never tried it
13:27
<ogra>
heh
13:27
pms just put everythign in a sigle fle that a source deb has in separate files
13:27
no difference beyond that
13:27
technically
13:28
*rpms
13:28
<nubae>
yeah but then uve got the debian/ubuntu stuff in all ubuntu packages
13:28
and diffs
13:29
but hey... I'm totally new at this so its probably simpler than it seems
13:29
<Lns>
ogra: i guess that's why alien works so well to convert stuff...not much difference under the hood
13:29
<ogra>
a deb package has the upstream tarball ... the diff.gz that contains the debian dir and the .dsc that merges diff,gz and upstream tarbally
13:30
<nubae>
well, suse has that build service where u put in a spec file and out comes everything else
13:30
<ogra>
an rpm has the upstream tarball and a spec file that does the same as the debian dir
13:30
<loather-work>
and possibly some patches
13:30
<ogra>
nubae, yes, with totally unusable debs
13:30
<nubae>
really? shame
13:30
<ogra>
since they dont respect the policy ... which is the only actual difference that makes debs good
13:31
you could as well use checkinstall to build a deb
13:31
or alien and convert it from rpm
13:32
<Lns>
What do you guys think of Easy-LTSP ? I just saw that last night, it looks kinda neat :)
13:32
<ogra>
its not easy to become a debian developer ... but not because of the technical difference between rpm and deb ... only because you need to know the policy
13:32
<Gadi>
so, /etc/modules doesn't support alias lines, right? only module names - I think via screwed up their install script
13:32
lol
13:33
<ogra>
the suse build service is like a debian develope without policy
13:33
<nubae>
yeah easy-ltsp is useful for people that dont know anything about ltsp, but the problem is that the default settings are all wrong
13:33
<ogra>
useless
13:33
<nubae>
wrong for debian/fedora/ubuntu that is :p
13:33
<Lns>
Gadi: /etc/modprobe.d/aliases?
13:33* ogra would have loved esay-ltsp finishing ltsp-manager ... as it was advertised in the soc proposal
13:33
<Gadi>
right
13:33
thats where it *should* go
13:34
<Lns>
hmm...
13:34* Gadi shakes head...
13:35
<Gadi>
and then they force a modprobe in rc.local
13:35
lol
13:35
now I know why they rely on OSS
13:35
<Lns>
haha
13:36K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp
13:37gonzaloaf_laptop has joined #ltsp
13:37
<ltsppbot>
"Nubae" pasted "working 030-fatclient" (217 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/26
13:39viking-ice has joined #ltsp
13:40
<johnny>
nubae, .. so that doesn't work wit hthe new local apps support then?
13:40
<nubae>
nope
13:40
builds a full standalone fat client
13:41
its possible to do the same with local apps, but since local apps didnt exist when I started this, I continued in the same way... :D
13:42
some dirty stuff in there, like the way it synchs users and groups, but it works
13:42
<johnny>
how much ram is needed for that setup?
13:42
<nubae>
I have a question, when one does build-ltsp-client on hardy, how can one make it build a intrepid chroot?
13:42
johnny, depends if u do normal or --highfat
13:43
<johnny>
normal
13:43
<nubae>
but I've tested with 128 and it will work, albeit slow
13:43
<johnny>
so .. what kinda environment do you get?
13:43
for users
13:44
<nubae>
ubuntu-desktop human-theme ubuntu-artwork edubuntu-artwork edubuntu-desktop language-pack-gnome-en firefox ubufox evolution libflashsupport avahi-daemon gnome-mount flashplugin-nonfree swfdec-mozilla
13:44joebaker has quit IRC
13:45
<nubae>
a web terminal with some educational stuff
13:45
I could add abiword in there I guess for a little more usability
13:45
<Lns>
nubae: ltsp-build-client --dist intrepid ?
13:46
<nubae>
that will change apt.sources.list for intrepid?
13:46
s/for/to
13:47
<Lns>
nubae: hmm, maybe not - "E: No such script: /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/intrepid"
13:47
<ogra>
that a) only works backwards (debootstrap needs to know the distro) and b) wasnt tested since about 2 years by anyone
13:48
<Lns>
jerickson@Fibonacci:/usr/share/debootstrap/scripts$ ls breezy etch gutsy hoary.buildd sarge sid woody dapper etch-m68k hardy lenny sarge.buildd warty woody.buildd edgy feisty hoary potato sarge.fakechroot warty.buildd
13:48* Lns remembers potato :)
13:48
<Gadi>
nubae: I wonder if instead of all of the insecure hackery with passwords, if you could make use of the pam_exec module - make it auth required with the command ssh -l $PAM_USER $SERVER /bin/true
13:48
<ogra>
bah, no rex and bo
13:50
<nubae>
Gadi: I'll look into it for next version
13:51
<Gadi>
well, it would be better than exporting /etc/shadow
13:51
and pam_exec is in main
13:52
<nubae>
where are the security pitfalls exactly?
13:52
<Gadi>
if you send me your shadow file, I can let my computer crack it for me
13:52
:)
13:53
there is a reason it is not world-readable
13:53
<nubae>
right but the shadow file is owned and copied to the admin users home dir
13:53
<ogra>
yeah, just pastebin it
13:53
<nubae>
and then via scp to /etc/shadow on the client
13:53
<Gadi>
ah
13:53
<nubae>
I'm still missing something
13:53
<Gadi>
I guess not as bad
13:54
I thought it was on an exported share
13:54
in the clear
13:54
<nubae>
oh no... that wouldn't work out either because would overwrite the clients own groups
13:54
thats why I did it this way
13:54* ogra would still pastebin it and then screen scrape the pastebin from the client
13:54
<nubae>
its not super elegant, but it works... the only problem is requirement of crontab
13:55
<ogra>
security by obsurity ...
13:55
s/obscurity/absurdity/
13:55
<laga_>
ogra: i think with most pastebins, you can download the raw content
13:55
<ogra>
pfft ... that would make the code to easy
13:56
<laga_>
is there an XML schema for the shadow file?
13:56
<Gadi>
nubae: actually, you can replace the whole thing with pam_exec + rc.d script for local apps (more or less)
13:56
that would be cool
13:56
<nubae>
Gadi: I know...
13:56
<Gadi>
eliminates the need for crontab completely
13:56
and ssh-server
13:56
<nubae>
but its been done this way now, so I'm not throwing in the towl
13:56
<Gadi>
right
13:57
I understand
13:57
<ogra>
laga_, btw, thanks fr the aufs fixes... really helped mobile
13:57
<nubae>
anyway, its useful for deployments that want customised chroots
13:58
tuxlabs is using it for various larger deployments with different sets of uses, and they want to implement using ldap, so then pam_exec + local apps isnt needed
13:58
<laga_>
ogra: the kernel guys drive me nuts sometimes
13:59
<ogra>
heh
13:59
<Gadi>
right - but you are still talking ldap+nfs
13:59
<nubae>
true nfs is ugly
13:59
<Gadi>
pam_exec + local_apps does it all through ssh
13:59
which can be nice
13:59
<nubae>
I will look into that
14:00
<Gadi>
just an option
14:01
<nubae>
hmmm so with nfs... when u copy something across the network, it can still be snooped right?
14:01
<Gadi>
with less setup
14:01
<nubae>
thats the security pitfall, right?
14:01
<Gadi>
until nfsv4, nfs has no encryption
14:02
<nubae>
and nfs4 needs kerberos for encryption as I understand it
14:02
<Gadi>
right
14:02
using the ssh approach, you can use whatever auth you want on the backend
14:02
ldap, AD, NIS, etc
14:02
so, it doesnt limit you
14:02
<johnny>
what is the performance like..
14:02
i wonder
14:03
<nubae>
yeah I'll try to get my head around it
14:03
<johnny>
sshfs vs nfs v4
14:03
<Gadi>
well, you are only using it for homedirs
14:03
so, program performance is not impacted
14:03
only writing/reading homedir files
14:03
not sure you would see much of a difference
14:03
<nubae>
does local apps allow mounting local devs?
14:03
<Gadi>
in most use-cases
14:04
the local apps piece I am talking about is the auth part
14:04
the local dev stuff on a fat client would be handled by the desktop volume manager
14:04
running locally
14:05
<nubae>
right, but I'm asking how local apps does it
14:05
<Gadi>
oh, local apps doesnt change how it is normally done - with ltspfs
14:05* Lns likes it when his ltsp customers' problems consist of something obvious like a full partition
14:05
<Gadi>
local apps doesnt touch local devs
14:06
<nubae>
ok, kinda makes sense
14:06
<Gadi>
now, if you run local app firefox and you want to save to a flash drive, that's a good question
14:07
I don't think we have addressed that yet
14:07
<nubae>
or open office?
14:07
<Gadi>
short of putting back a symlink in the homedir to the server's /media/$USER, I am not sure how we would
14:08
but, at least symlinks through sshfs stay on the remote side
14:08
so, that would work
14:08
<ogra>
??
14:08
you need the symlink on the client
14:08
not on the server
14:08
<Gadi>
no, in the homedir that links to the server's /media/$USER
14:09
unless you have a volume manager I am not aware of on the client
14:09
<ogra>
huh ??
14:09
<nubae>
the homedir would be mounted on the client no?
14:09
<Gadi>
sure
14:09
but, if you put a symlink from /home/user/tmp to /tmp
14:09
and browse to it
14:09
<ogra>
you need /media/$USER/<device> pointing to /mountpoint/<device> on the client
14:09
<Gadi>
you *should* see /tmp on the server
14:10
as the homedir is sshfs
14:10
<ogra>
why and how would a locally runing FF access the server at all ?
14:10
<Gadi>
ogra: that connection is already plumbed with ltspfs
14:10
<ogra>
on the client ?
14:10
<Gadi>
through sshfs
14:10
<ogra>
definately now
14:10
*not
14:10
<Gadi>
mounted on the client
14:10
<ogra>
/media is mounted on the client ?
14:10
by what ?
14:11
<Gadi>
no
14:11
<ogra>
right
14:11
<Gadi>
/home/user is mounted on client
14:11
via sshfs
14:11
<ogra>
which has absolutely no access to /media anywhere
14:11
you need /media/$USER/<device> pointing to /mountpoint/<device> on the client
14:11
<Gadi>
and a symlink in that fs space is a symlink to the server's filesystem space
14:11
<ogra>
then FF on the client can acess the device
14:11
<Gadi>
which it is via ltspfs
14:11
<ogra>
what symlink
14:12
<Gadi>
ok, this is what I mean:
14:12* ogra already doesnt like it
14:12
<Gadi>
if computer A has /home/user as an sshfs mount to B:/home/user
14:12
<ogra>
(since i suspect i know what comes)
14:12
<Gadi>
and there is a symlink /home/user/tmp -> /tmp
14:13
<ogra>
(which is why we dont support KDE yet)
14:13
<Gadi>
then, when I browse /home/user on computer A
14:13
<v-pro>
ogra: would it be possible to get a draft of the lts.conf documentation without the trouble of installing bazaar tools?
14:13
<Gadi>
the /tmp/ that I see on /home/user/tmp is B:/tmp
14:13
<ogra>
!docs
14:13
<ltspbot>
ogra: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
14:13
<nubae>
hehe, useful on its first day up! :-)
14:13
<ogra>
v-pro, if you want to contribute you will need bzr though
14:14
Gadi, why do i need to see /tmp ?
14:14
<Gadi>
ogra: it is an example
14:14
<ogra>
better: why do i need to see b:/tmp ?
14:14
<Gadi>
if the symlink were to; /media/$USER , I would see B:/media/$USER
14:14
<ogra>
whats the usecase ?
14:14
<v-pro>
ogra: I am after some answers for now :)
14:15Pascal_Debian has joined #ltsp
14:15
<Gadi>
since B:/media/$USER/<device> is already an ltspfs mount to A:<device>
14:15
I would be able to save docs that way
14:15
<ogra>
you need /media/$USER/<device> pointing to /mountpoint/<device> on the client
14:15
to repeat myself
14:15
<Gadi>
which IT IS
14:15
<ogra>
no
14:15
<Gadi>
to repeat myself
14:16
through LOCALDEV=Y
14:16
<ogra>
its a link on the server
14:16
<Gadi>
:)
14:16
<ogra>
i dont involve server or network at all
14:16
<Gadi>
in this example, B is the server and A is the client
14:16
<ogra>
understood
14:16
<Gadi>
right, the better way would be to keep everything local
14:17
<ogra>
but why would you want your data to go through the net twice if you can do a local disk copy
14:17
right
14:17
<Gadi>
which involves a local desktop-independent volume manager
14:17
(which I have advocated for years now)
14:17
:)
14:17
<ogra>
??
14:17
it only involves a link
14:17
<Gadi>
do I not run ltspfs locally?
14:17
;)
14:17
what link?
14:18
<ogra>
hmm, right, you need to overcome the unmounting
14:18
/media/$USER/<device> pointing to /mountpoint/<device> on the client
14:18
<Gadi>
right
14:18* nubae feels dizzy
14:18
<Gadi>
I don't know what that does to the Save dialog in local FF
14:18
:)
14:18
<ogra>
but i think ltspfsd can listen to that
14:18
<Gadi>
ie, all of the "Computer" magic
14:19
right
14:19
<ogra>
FF aill show you the devices plus everything in /media
14:19
since we have hal by default on clients
14:19
<Gadi>
you don't need local gnome for that?
14:19
<ogra>
(X doesnt work without hal and dbus anymore)
14:19
no
14:19
hal should be enough
14:19
<Gadi>
cool
14:19Pascal_Debian has quit IRC
14:20Pascal_Debian has joined #ltsp
14:20
<ogra>
probably some plug between hal and FF we dont install atm
14:20
but which definately exists
14:20
<v-pro>
LDM_DIRECTX = True
14:21
whoops, does that work? Without disabling anything else than encryption?
14:22
<Gadi>
v-pro: it causes X to not be tunneled thru ssh but go directly back to the Xserver running on the thin client
14:22
<v-pro>
what about the signaling that local devices use?
14:23
<Gadi>
still works
14:23
<v-pro>
great
14:23
<Gadi>
you still create the ssh tunnel
14:23
just dont use it for video
14:23
<v-pro>
ok
14:23Pascal_Debian has quit IRC
14:23
<v-pro>
just what I need :)
14:23
<Lns>
hrm... nbdswapd manpage (in ubuntu anyway) shows 9210 as the port still...
14:23
<Gadi>
another satisfied customer
14:24
<v-pro>
indeed
14:24
<ogra>
Lns, bug :)
14:25
though it might be that we use that if not called by inetd
14:25
check the conf first
14:25* ogra goes for dinner and TV
14:26
<Lns>
ogra: it looks like 9210 was the original port (from that nbd_port bug) that was switched to 9572 in ltsp-client-setup after the patch was applied
14:26
the man page probably just didn't get updated, i'll report it
14:30vagrantc has joined #ltsp
14:30
<Lns>
vagrantc: !
14:30* vagrantc waves
14:31
<Lns>
ears burning...i found a typo in the nbdswapd manpage (9210 as port still).. you want me to file a bug?
14:32* vagrantc sees anything but 9210 as a bug
14:32
<vagrantc>
ubuntu deviated from the default for ltsp, which was 9210
14:32
<v-pro>
btw. any plans to include freenx to ltsp?
14:33
the proxy at least would be handy?
14:34
<vagrantc>
v-pro: make it work and submit patches... there hasn't been a completely free NX implementation, as far as i'm aware.
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14:34
<v-pro>
I actually have a somewhat working version of it
14:35
but don't have enough time to enhance it
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14:35
<vagrantc>
so turn your somewhat working setup into patches :)
14:35
<v-pro>
maybe later
14:35
<Lns>
vagrantc: so the default *is* 9210? Because in hardy-updates, ltsp-client-setup changed NBD_PORT to 9572
14:35
and 9572 is what's in inetd.conf
14:35
<vagrantc>
Lns: ubuntu changed the default to 9572
14:36
<Lns>
ah
14:36
<vagrantc>
and i've reluctantly followed suite
14:36
er, suit
14:36
<Lns>
so.. should we update the manpage for ubuntu only... ? what was the reason for the port change?
14:36
seems kinda lame
14:37
<vagrantc>
i think most LTSP5 implementations are using 9572, but previous versions of LTSP and some implementations in debian (and maybe ubuntu) used 9210.
14:39
<Lns>
vagrantc: ok..so how do we avoid this confusion in the manpage? Is ubuntu going to stick with 9572?
14:39* vagrantc is not in a position to answer that question
14:42* Lns is confused
14:47* vagrantc works on debian
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15:00
<Lns>
vagrantc: i guess we have to change your manpage on ubuntu only then
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15:02
<vagrantc>
Lns: i would check in with all distros and see what they're using
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15:05
<nubae>
does debian use 9210?
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15:16* Lns wishes there weren't ever issues as trivial as "which port do I use" for critical services
15:16
<johnny>
there isn't
15:16
this service isn't critical :)
15:16
<Lns>
johnny: blar! =p
15:16
<johnny>
critical services are in /etc/services
15:16
take a look
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15:16
<Lns>
johnny: i didn't mean <1024 services
15:17
<johnny>
no.. that has >1024
15:17
xmpp is in there
15:17
5222
15:17
even monotone has a port
15:17
<Lns>
hm
15:17
maybe it's an issue of getting nbd* in /etc/services... ??
15:18
if AIM gets a line in there, nbdswapd should too
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15:20
<nubae>
hmmm so how do I install an intrepid chroot on a hardy system?
15:20
<Lns>
nubae: cp -a ? :)
15:20
nubae: why do you want to do that?
15:21
for fat-client support?
15:21
<nubae>
right
15:21
it requires intrepid to work
15:21
<Lns>
ah
15:21
<nubae>
well, it probably works on hardy too
15:21
but with the massive problems its had, I dont dare support that
15:23
so any ideas?
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15:31
<Lns>
nubae: not really, besides copying a chroot from a native intrepid install to hardy and just using that
15:31* Lns doesn't have much experience in using different distros for chroots than the "host" system
15:33* Lns goes to get some lunch
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16:56
<ltsppbot>
"Lns" pasted "Very slow booting of thin clients after updating chroot...any clues?" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/27
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17:00
<Lns>
Ubuntu Hardy install btw... weird issues.
17:01
Is there a delay on client bootup when creating an nbd swapfile on the server?
17:01
If so, how long? I'm hearing 4-5 minutes to boot up to ldm...
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17:02
<vagrantc>
should be almost instantaneous
17:03
nbd swapfile creation, that is
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17:04
<Lns>
vagrantc: ok..weird message then. All i've done is update the client chroot with hardy-updates and this has started happening at a couple of different sites.
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17:18
<Lns>
ltsp-update-kernels simply takes the kernel from the existing chroot and copies it to tftpboot right?
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17:20* Lns forgets to dig into code sometimes
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17:29
<vagrantc>
Lns: yes.
17:30
<Lns>
vagrantc: so the order in which you run 'ltsp-update-kernels' and 'ltsp-update-image' after, say a chroot upgrade isn't important
17:30
as long as both are done
17:31
<vagrantc>
Lns: for the most part, yes. though probably better to run update-kernels first, so the image isn't inconsitant with the chroot.
17:33
<Lns>
vagrantc: but as long as you don't touch the chroot after upgrading it and running update-image (and THEN running update-kernels) they'll be the same, right?
17:33
<vagrantc>
Lns: probably.
17:33
<Lns>
lol ok
17:33
just trying to t/s bootup issues, that's the only thing i can come up with that i did wrong
17:34
but i ran them both in succession
17:34
<vagrantc>
ltsp-update-image should always be run last. why bother getting into the minutiae of weather it *could* be run earlier?
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17:35
<Lns>
vagrantc: well like i said i'm just troubleshooting some issues and that's the only thing i can come up with that i did wrong
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18:47
<stgraber>
ogra: I don't think you are still around, are you ?
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18:59
<nubae>
its 2 am here :-)
19:01
<Lns>
nubae: hehe, always on the chan ;)
19:01
it's 1min after quitting time here (5pm)
19:01
<nubae>
Im just stuck trying to get cdemu to work
19:01
<stgraber>
nubae: yeah I know but well, it's ogra :)
19:02
that was to give him the good news that my two FFe have been granted so we'll get a new ltsp and ldm in Ubuntu for Intrepid.
19:02
<nubae>
woohoo
19:03
excellent :-)
19:03
<Lns>
stgraber: wooo :)
19:03
<stgraber>
yeah
19:03
<Lns>
now can we get SRUs for hardy? ;)
19:03
<stgraber>
I just don't have the right to upload them to main myself (but should soon have) so I need him to upload :)
19:03
Lns: SRU no, backport, you can ask the backport team :)
19:04
<Lns>
stgraber: is a backport generally easier to get?
19:04
<stgraber>
Lns: for SRU you'd need to be specific on what fix you want
19:04
<Lns>
ah
19:04
<stgraber>
Lns: yeah, a backport let's you get a newer version a SRU is keeping the same version but patching it
19:04
so it's usually harder to have a SRU than a backport
19:04
but SRU are supported (as in -updates) and backports aren't (they are in -backports)
19:05
<Lns>
stgraber: gotcha.
19:05
it's all becoming clearer now... ;)
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21:24
<warren>
http://disklessworkstations.com/ Why does etherboot cost more than PXE boot?
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21:44
<sbalneav>
Evening all
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