IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 December 2009   (all times are UTC)

00:01
<alkisg>
Ahmuck: "10/100Mpbs LAN speed." ==> not good enough for network booting, I'd prefer to use a cloning solution with it
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03:53
<Roel_>
anycone has any idea why I get this :
03:53
Dec 15 09:50:56 prudence xinetd[4921]: START: ldminfod pid=17716 from=192.168.123.1
03:53
Dec 15 09:50:56 prudence xinetd[17716]: FAIL: ldminfod address from=192.168.123.1
03:53
Dec 15 09:50:56 prudence xinetd[4921]: EXIT: ldminfod status=0 pid=17716 duration=0(sec)
03:54
and a blanked screen on the client
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05:00
<GuilhermeCunha>
:)
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07:04
<_USUrPeR_>
!seen tyronica
07:04
<ltspbot>
_USUrPeR_: I have not seen tyronica.
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07:09
<Roel_>
!docs
07:09
<ltspbot>
Roel_: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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08:48
<sbalneav>
Morning all
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08:50
<Kicer86>
hi
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08:56
<Barbosa>
#mp3
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09:05
<noob1>
hi
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09:06
<noob1>
i am trying to figure out how to have my thin clients automatically boot into a rdesktop session to win 2008
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09:06
<noob1>
all the guides i tried online gives me a thin client that fades in and out of the pxe boot screen
09:07
<dmarkey_>
stgraber: hello
09:08
<sbalneav>
noob1: Could you paste the contents of your lts.conf file to the pastebot?
09:08
!pastebot
09:08
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "pastebot" :: The LTSP pastebot is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
09:08
<noob1>
sure
09:09
let me see
09:10
okay i pasted it
09:10
http://ltsp.pastebin.com/d2a7d6ded
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09:12
<noob1>
i am not too familiar with what I am doing, but I am hoping that I can boot up the client directly into the windows terminal service without having to login to ubunutu
09:13
it works if i login to ubuntu and then start a tsclient/rdesktop from there
09:16
<Ahmuck-Sr>
ur trying to set up ltsp on ubuntu?
09:17
noob1:
09:17
<noob1>
yes?
09:17
i already have a working ubuntu/ltsp
09:17
<Ahmuck-Sr>
you have used the alternate install disk
09:17
oh
09:17
<noob1>
correct
09:17
<Ahmuck-Sr>
u have two nics?
09:17
<noob1>
login into ubuntu using the thin clients works fine
09:18
<Ahmuck-Sr>
ok
09:18
<noob1>
running tsclient or rdesktop from the thin clients in ubuntu works fine too
09:19
but i would like to have the thin client boot up and skip the ubuntu login and directly run rdesktop, is it possible?
09:20
otherwise I might have to lockdown the ubuntu guest a/c which i see as a very long work around
09:20
<dmarkey_>
noob1: yes
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09:20
<noob1>
so what am i doing wrong,
09:20
<dmarkey_>
google ltsp rdesktop
09:20
<noob1>
when i set it up according to varions guides
09:21
the thin client blanks in and out of pxe boot screen
09:21
i googled it, and have been trying it for a long time
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09:24
<indradg>
hi... I'm using K12Linux and I'm having problems while trying to install openssh-server in the ltsp chroot environment
09:25
<dmarkey_>
noob1: you're trying to connect to a windows terminal server, right?
09:25
<noob1>
yes
09:25
windows 2008 remote desktop
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09:29
<noob1>
in the client boot screen i do get 4 lines of "missing parameter in lts.conf file" or soemthing
09:29
<dmarkey_>
hmm
09:30
lemme see if i can get an example for you
09:30
<noob1>
i think first thing i need to ask is the lts.conf file "style sensitive"?
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09:36
<dmarkey_>
noob1: http://www.redhat.com/archives/k12osn/2007-March/msg00691.html
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09:37
<noob1>
let me try it
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09:42
<noob1>
nope
09:42
gives me a text login screen
09:42
for ubuntu
09:42
i think
09:45
<Appiah>
is that ym?
09:45
yum*
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09:48
<noob1>
what should i attempt next?
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09:50
<dmarkey_>
noob1: post your ldm.conf
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09:50
<noob1>
[00:E0:4c:43:22:96]
09:50
XSERVER = auto
09:50
LOCAL_APPS = Y
09:50
SCREEN_08 = rdesktop
09:50
RDP_SERVER = 192.168.122.113
09:50
RDP_OPTIONS = "-a 16 -u chi_prc_guest01 -p Ping111"
09:53
<_USUrPeR_>
noob1: are you able to ping the windows server from your client?
09:53
<noob1>
yes, i am able to run rdesktop from the clients after i login to ubuntu
09:55
<dmarkey_>
noob1: for a start make RDP_OPTIONS = " -a 16 -f"
09:55
you can add nicities when you get the basics working
09:58
<_USUrPeR_>
noob1: also, depending on what version of windows you are logging into, you may need a -4 in there (I recently discovered this w/a 2k8r2 server)
09:58
<noob1>
hmm
09:58
so "-a 16 -f -4"?
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10:05
<noob1>
where do i add the "-4" again?
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10:09
<johnny>
/me pokes alkisg
10:09
<alkisg>
Ouch
10:09
<johnny>
alkisg, webgl is being nicely standardized..
10:10* alkisg was hurt by the poking :P
10:10
<alkisg>
Webgl? Whassut?
10:10
<johnny>
gl in the browser
10:10
<_USUrPeR_>
noob1: the order does not really matter. put it in RDP_OPTIONS
10:10
<johnny>
3d in the browser rather
10:11
http://feeds.arstechnica.com/~r/arstechnica/index/~3/Xj5q3srL2Q8/webgl-draft-published-khronos-seeks-community-involvement.ars
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10:12
<noob1>
RDP_OPTIONS = "-a 16 -f -4"
10:12
<johnny>
all those spaces offend my eyes..
10:12
before the =
10:12
well.. you should just make it even try to work before playing with options too much
10:12
<noob1>
uhm...
10:12
<johnny>
remove the - before 4
10:12
unless it's really an option
10:12
<alkisg>
johnny: wow, how do you find all those new technologies?!!!:D Heh, it'll be really nice though if we have 3d that we can manipulate with javascript...
10:13
<noob1>
so what's wrong before the "="?
10:13
<johnny>
it looks ugly..
10:13
alkisg, you should subscribe to ars too..
10:13
and phoronix
10:13
<noob1>
oh... it's suppose to be tabs...
10:13
<johnny>
also lwn is great..
10:13
<noob1>
should i remove the spaces?
10:13
<johnny>
i don't know if it stops parsing anymore
10:13
<alkisg>
Nah I bet it takes too much time, and with 3 kids I don't have so much :(
10:13
<johnny>
but there used to be abug
10:14
<noob1>
should i put it at screen_08? or screen_01?
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10:14
<johnny>
alkisg, it's only like 10 articles a day.. of which you might only read 1
10:14
i just skim and mark all as read
10:14
btw.. you just explained why i'm not interested in having kids yet.. :)
10:15
alkisg, i really wish we could force http booting all the time :(
10:15
instead of having to deal with tcp..
10:15
err tftp
10:15
<alkisg>
me too :-/
10:15
But it'll takes ages for intel to support http in the pxe spec
10:15
<johnny>
have a php/python/perl script that ran to generate the specific lts.conf for the pc :)
10:16
<alkisg>
Right ;)
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10:17
<johnny>
alkisg, you could even generate it from sqlite db.. :)
10:17
or query some external hardware db like ocs inventory or whatever people use these days..
10:17
<alkisg>
Well that can be done now as well too
10:17
lts.conf can be downloaded from http by the initramfs...
10:18
<johnny>
ah.. true
10:18
<alkisg>
tftp is only needed for pxelinux.0 or the kernel...
10:18
<johnny>
but also the kernel command line..
10:18
guess we can grab that there too
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10:19
<jelly-bean1>
what's the best way to configure ltsp image(s) for use in a medium-size business environment with 40+ users?
10:20
should i be using multiple images -- one-per-user, or create a bunch of user accounts on the image?
10:20
how to control security and permissions of users on the image?
10:22
<alkisg>
jelly-bean1: you don't create users in the image, you create them on the server
10:22
See the docs for a general overview:
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10:22
<alkisg>
!docs
10:22
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
10:22
<noob1>
still not working...
10:23
boots into the ubuntu screen
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10:31
<dmarkey_>
i assume you mean ldm?
10:32
noob1: pastebin.com you FULL ldm.conf
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10:33
<noob1>
http://ltsp.pastebin.com/ddae6ed5
10:33
oh wait
10:33
ldm.conf?
10:33
where do i get that?
10:33
i did not know i have to modify that...\
10:33
<dmarkey_>
sorry, you're right
10:33
<jelly-bean1>
with a fresh ubuntu 9.10 install, after also running update manager, i am now trying to boot the thin client for the first time over the network. tried a amd64 arch and i386 arch with two diff thin clients but both arrive at a kernel panic
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10:34
<jelly-bean1>
also fyi there was a kernel panic error when the server machine first booted which is why we ran the updates and since then it hasnt appeared again. this was a fresh install off the ubuntu karmic alternative install cd
10:34
<noob1>
most guides only tells me to modify lts.conf
10:41
<dmarkey_>
noob1: yea that would be correct
10:41
<noob1>
then... what is the path to ldm.conf?
10:41
so that i can paste it
10:42
<dmarkey_>
no, dont edit that, stick with lts.conf, my mistake
10:42
<noob1>
oh..
10:42
so... what is the next step i should be doing?
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10:43
<dmarkey_>
gimme a sec
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10:49
<dmarkey_>
noob1: http://dmarkey.com/~dmarkey/lts.conf
10:49
i used that on a project, it works
10:49
although i used a custom xorg.conf file, you could edit that line out
10:50
<noob1>
cool
10:50
let me try it
10:50
<dmarkey_>
and i used a 2003 server
10:50
you *will* need to edit it
10:51
<noob1>
hmm...
10:52
<dmarkey_>
what now
10:52
<_USUrPeR_>
stgraber: ping?
10:52
<noob1>
figuring out how to edit it..
10:52
<dmarkey_>
vi?
10:52
<noob1>
what is sys_loghost?
10:52
syslog_host?
10:53
<dmarkey_>
comment that out
10:53
actually, let me clean that up
10:54
try again now
10:56
<noob1>
still giving me a blingking pxe boot screen
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11:02
<noob1>
i keep getting a "missing parameter in configuration file" during pxe boot, is that causing problems?
11:02
<jelly-bean1>
i booted one thin client in the amd64 image and another machine in the i386 image. everything is fine except the i386 machine shows text upside down and flipped. windows like the firefox window have their titlebar on the right side of the window vertically
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11:04
<dmarkey_>
noob1: hmm, not sure
11:04
can you take a screen shot of that?
11:05
<noob1>
not sure how...
11:05
it's booting from the client..
11:05
<dmarkey_>
yea
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11:05
<alkisg>
jelly-bean1: do you have the proprietary nvidia drivers on the server and intel graphics card on the client?
11:06
<dmarkey_>
when it was booting into "ubuntu" was that off the LTSP server?
11:06
<jelly-bean1>
alkisg: yes i think so
11:06
<noob1>
yes
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11:06
<noob1>
let me try removing the whole i386
11:06
<alkisg>
jelly-bean1: known bug, one way around it is to disable compiz on the client (from appearance settings => none)
11:06
<noob1>
and do a ltsp-build-client again
11:07
<dmarkey_>
alkisg: does compiz work via LTSP?
11:07
<alkisg>
dmarkey_: depends on the card. I think with intels it does.
11:08
<dmarkey_>
so kde4 would work fully?
11:08
<alkisg>
I don't know.
11:08
jelly-bean1: you could also try playing with some xrandr settings, if you want I can look at the logs for the proposed but untested lts.conf settings.
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11:09
<noob1>
might take awhile...
11:09
<dmarkey_>
shouldnt really
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11:09
<dmarkey_>
there is an LTSP flag to just give an xterm window for debugging, that is that
11:09
what*
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11:12
<johnny>
dmarkey_, no real need for it imo.. if you just use ltsp-localapp xterm
11:13
i don't see why we need the flag at all if it's so easy to start
11:14
<dmarkey_>
im talking about even before ldm starts
11:14
<jelly-bean1>
alkisg: the appearance settings are already set to none by default and it actually wont let me turn it on (which i was curious about to see compiz performance on a thin client)
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11:15
<jelly-bean1>
even on the pc that does also have a nvidia card
11:15
oh nvm i was wrong
11:15
that worked
11:15
but how do i turn on compiz on the thin client that would support it?
11:16
<johnny>
it's better if you don't..
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11:18
<noob1>
it's 1am here... imma gonna sleep, will be back in 5 hours,
11:19
thx
11:19
thx 4 ur help, but more guidiance is needed later
11:19
<dmarkey_>
bye
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11:22
<alkisg>
jelly-bean1: you could also uninstall the proprietary nvidia drivers from the server.
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11:41
<skeemer>
mornin' and other appropriate salutations
11:41
what kind of load averages do people normally see on their servers?
11:42
i'm seeing between 12 and 17 and wondering if that is normal
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11:49
<_UsUrPeR_>
etf
11:49
err w even
11:49
netsplit much, irc?
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11:53
<Lns>
seriously...it's been happening a lot the past few days eh?
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11:54
<johnny>
well.. it'd be nice if it used xmpp.. :)
11:55
<Lns>
lol
11:55
sure, just go tell the irc proto guys that, i'm sure they'll switch on over
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12:03
<brain187>
can someone help me install google chrome browser as a local app
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12:07
<brain187>
i already installed firefox as a local app if that helps
12:10
<johnny>
it should be the same then..
12:10
not thati 've ever tried..
12:12
<brain187>
yep i kinda figure that but i was looking for that apt-get install type info i need
12:14
<johnny>
then you'll have to look on the internet
12:14
and follow the same instructions .. just in thechroot
12:14
<brain187>
thanks bro
12:15
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok, so I am still having problems with italc. I have had an interesting development, however: I am able to contact the italc client if I start italc on the client manually
12:16
I just cannot connect to it when started with the START_ITALC = True lts.conf entry
12:16
though itlac is listening on 5900 on the client, according to a netstat -anp
12:18
<alkisg>
avahi-browse -trp _italc._tcp
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12:21
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: should that be run from the server or the client?
12:23
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: anywhere will do :)
12:23* Lns would be interested in knowing whether chrome works well as a localapp (or even in general) with multi-user LTSP
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12:26
<johnny>
why wouldn't it Lns ?
12:27
but better to use chromium..
12:27
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: http://www.pastebin.com/m17b3443 <--- this was run on the server
12:27
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: "Unknown post id, it may have expired or been deleted"
12:28
<_UsUrPeR_>
hmm
12:28
alkisg: try this then http://pastebin.com/m99b17c7
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12:29
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: is the client booted? It doesn't show up in the avahi list
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12:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: yeah, It's booted
12:31
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: well then either iTalc doesn't use avahi (=the autodetection thing) when it's installed in the chroot, or it's not properly installed...
12:31
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: disappointing. I used apt-get to install...
12:31
<alkisg>
Is there any specific reason why you want to put it in the chroot?
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12:33
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: The latest (8.04) installation instructions instruct that the italc-client be installed in chroot
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12:33
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: where?!!! I only know of one wiki page, which says that there are TWO ways to install it..
12:33
...and it says that on the chroot it's the difficult way to do it :)
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12:34
<_UsUrPeR_>
and it's executed with the /usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc.d/I15-italc script which is enabled by putting "START_ITALC = TRUE"
12:34
<alkisg>
Sure, I know, but why?
12:34
There's the easy way to do it: just install italc. And the difficult way to do it: install it on the chroot and waste an afternoon to get it working :)
12:34
<Lns>
http://blog.freenode.net/2009/12/december-8-2009-connectivity-issues-and-netsplits/
12:35
<alkisg>
I wonder why people keep selecting the difficult way :)
12:36
<_UsUrPeR_>
I'll give the normal way a shot...
12:36
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: anyway, try this: sudo diff -r /etc/italc/keys/ /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/italc/keys/
12:37
Or this one: sudo diff -r /etc/italc/keys/public /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/italc/keys/public
12:38
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: all are diff
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12:39
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: they should be the same
12:39
After installing iTalc on the chroot, you should copy the public server keys to the chroot
12:39
(and then ltsp-update-image blah blah you know :))
12:40
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok. lemme try this
12:41
<alkisg>
(I really should spend some hours rewritting that italc wiki page, it's been giving people trouble...)
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13:08
<brain187>
anyone install google chrome as a local app on ltsp yet
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13:17
<jelly-bean1>
can ltsp provision windows images?
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13:25
<jelly-bean1>
can ltsp provision windows images?
13:26
<alkisg>
What do you mean?
13:27
<jelly-bean1>
front page of ltsp website "LTSP workstations can run applications from Linux and Windows servers."
13:28
<alkisg>
I suppose they mean rdesktop. What do YOU mean?
13:28
<jelly-bean1>
i interpreted this to mean that a microsoft OS PXE image could be served from an LTSP tftp boot directory
13:29
sounds like i was wrong
13:29
<alkisg>
Is there such a thing? If there is, sure, you can serve anything..
13:29
But that wouldn't be related to ltsp at all.
13:29
<jelly-bean1>
ah i c
13:30
but if we set up a windows server could it issue some rdesktop connection to a box running windows server? I mean i wonder how ic ould have windows and linux thin clients on the same network with just one dhcp serevr
13:32
we want to deploy ltsp on the business LAN network but havent been able to get everyone switched over to linux
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13:38
<Lns>
jelly-bean1: plenty of people use LTSP to serve strictly rdesktop sessions to windows TS servers
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14:08
<jhutchins_lt>
jelly-bean1: Sure, you could have a Windows PXE image on the same server as LTSP.
14:09
jelly-bean1: I've got a back-burner project to have a multi-boot PXE setup that defaults to LTSP but includes at least one installer.
14:09
<jelly-bean1>
jhutchins: we have several oem windwos licenses we got with new pcs
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14:09
<jelly-bean1>
can we convert those to pxe images
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14:09
<mgariepy>
hi everybody
14:09
<jelly-bean1>
jhutchins_lt: im interested! multi-boot would be awesome
14:10
<jhutchins_lt>
jelly-bean1: Much easier to pre-configure which MAC gets which OS.
14:10
jelly-bean1: The menu thing is a bit of a hair puller - scraps of info pulled from multiple sources. Menu structure is from syslinux.
14:10dberkholz has joined #ltsp
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14:11
<jhutchins_lt>
jelly-bean1: One of those "my brain is full now, I think I'll go do some carpentry" things.
14:11
<jelly-bean1>
jelly-bean1: preconfig in DHCP u mean?
14:12
our dhcp server is pfsense which is a freebsd iso
14:12
might need a plugin or something to provision boot image by mac
14:15
wonder if smoothwall can do it
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14:37
<Ahmuck-Jr>
ltsp will boot by mac
14:37
need to set it in lts.conf iirc
14:46
<sbalneav>
There seems to be a LOT of netsplits today.
14:46jhutchins_lt has joined #ltsp
14:47
<_UsUrPeR__>
sbalneav: it turns out that Freenode's main server is located on a ship in the Pacific ocean
14:48
I guess they're in the process of switching hosting companies
14:48
<squarepeg>
perhaps they ran out of wire?
14:50
<_UsUrPeR__>
I thought the internet was run with tubes...
14:56
<Lns>
Technically, subsea fiber bundles *are* in tubes....
14:58_UsUrPeR__ is now known as _UsUrPeR_
14:58
<_UsUrPeR_>
touchè
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15:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: ok, so I am trying out the "easy" installation process for italc
15:10
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: ok, remove any traces of italc in the chroot
15:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
yes
15:10
don
15:10
e
15:10
did that
15:10
next, purged the server as well just for good measure
15:10
re-installed, rebuilt image
15:11
so there is no italc on the client image
15:11
now what?
15:11
<alkisg>
You don't need italc on the client image
15:11
When a user logs on, he'll run the italc-client from the server
15:12
It's plug 'n' play, just logon a user..
15:13
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: so it's supposed to autostart on the client upon logon?
15:13
<alkisg>
Yes
15:13
And the server (=italc-launcher) autodetects all clients
15:14prpplague is now known as prpplague_afk
15:14
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: ok, so say that I have done exactly as you have described, and I am seeing no clients detected after logging in.
15:15
which is not a hypothetical
15:15
where should I start looking?
15:15
<alkisg>
OK, run the `avahi-browse -trp _italc._tcp` command.
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15:17
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: http://pastebin.com/m298e273b
15:18
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: did you reboot the client after ltsp-update-image?
15:18
It still has the local italc
15:18
(= the chroot one)
15:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: hmm. Ok. lemme check that.
15:22
alkisg: faith and begorra! I've seen the light.
15:22
<alkisg>
;)
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15:23
<alkisg>
It's really just an apt-get install italc-master, but the wiki page makes it hard for everyone that reads it :(
15:24
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: I have uncovered the runes of an ancient Babylonian script. Can you help me translate cuneiform?
15:24
;)
15:24
<alkisg>
Heh :D
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15:28
<jelly-bean1>
can i install ltsp on top of an existing ubuntu server install?
15:29
<_UsUrPeR_>
jelly-bean1: server or desktop?
15:29
<jelly-bean1>
serevr
15:29
what is the difference between: ltsp-client - LTSP client environment, ltsp-client-core - LTSP client environment, ltsp-server - Basic LTSP server environment, ltsp-server-standalone - Complete LTSP server environment
15:30
basic and standalone?
15:30
<sbalneav>
basic gets you the chroot
15:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
jelly-bean1: it requires the desktop environment on the server to boot ltsp to a desktop environment.
15:30
<jelly-bean1>
ok i can install gnome
15:30
<sbalneav>
standalone just adds a dependency on the dhcpd and tftp servers
15:31
<jelly-bean1>
i dont need dhcpd but will need tftp
15:31
so i prolly want standalone
15:31
<sbalneav>
then install basic, and tftp separately.
15:31
Or install standalone, and remove the dhcp3-server package
15:31
The choices are endless!!!! :)
15:32
<jelly-bean1>
sbalneav: if i do that can it still create all the tftp files for me
15:32
i just dont wnat to configure the tftp server etc
15:32
<_UsUrPeR_>
standalone is your best option
15:34
<alkisg>
jelly-bean1: if you don't want dhcpd, then don't install the standalone
15:34
ltsp-server-standalone is the same as ltsp-server, with the addition of dhcp3-server
15:34
standalone == no external dhcp around, so run dhcp3-server in the ltsp server.
15:35
<jelly-bean1>
both packages contain tftp then?
15:35
<alkisg>
Yes
15:35
(actually, only ltsp-server does)
15:35
<jelly-bean1>
ok so i am installing gnome and ltsp-server
15:35
<alkisg>
(ltsp-server-standalone just depends on ltsp-server)
15:35
<jelly-bean1>
is it possible to get compiz working on ltsp?
15:36
i am following this silly tutorial [ubuntu] Is it possible to make Ubuntu (GNOME) look like Vista?
15:36
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1086829
15:36
it gets close. the users will be like, "hey this looks like vista, but it actually works...."
15:36
trying to ease transition to ubuntu :D
15:36
it uses some beryl/emerald theme stuff
15:36
which is why i as
15:36
ask*
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15:40
<jelly-bean1>
http://www.ubuntugeek.com/howto-make-ubuntu-look-like-windows-vista.html
15:40
<sbalneav>
ltsp-update-/win 3
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15:42
<sbalneav>
I had some experience with this sort of thing.
15:43
Do not, I repeat DO NOT ever try to make Linux "look like" windows, no matter how tempting you think it may be to ease transition.
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15:44
<sbalneav>
You're only setting yourself up for headaches down the road.
15:45
When we first converted to Linux, we used IceWM, a very nice small window manager that I still have very fond memories for.
15:45
It behaves *very much* like windows.
15:46
but it was not perfect.
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15:46
<sbalneav>
*nothing* on the linux desktop ever EXACTLY duplicates windows, nor should it.
15:47
the problem is, it's MORE confusing for users when they have something that LOOKS like windows, so they think it should ACT like windows for everything.
15:47
Leading to a non-stop series of questions/problems that all start with the same words...
15:47
"Well, on my HOME machine, I'd do...."
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15:48
<sbalneav>
"Why doesn't it do the same thing here?"
15:48
<vagrantc>
that's why all linux users should switch to tritium.
15:48
<sbalneav>
It's good that a linux desktop should look different.
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15:50
<sbalneav>
that way, you can legitimately teach them something different, and in their minds, since it IS something different, there's a reduced or eliminated expectation that it should behave "Like it does at home"
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15:51
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: heh, in my naive youth, the very first window manager I put in front of the test group was twm
15:51
They didn't like it, and I gave them IceWM
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15:51
<sbalneav>
... Should have stuck with it :)
15:52
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: you're too cruel!
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15:58
<sbalneav>
twm's awesome!
15:59
Every once in a while, I fire it up, just to reminisce.
15:59
First window manager I ever use.
15:59
used, rather.
15:59
You always remember your first. :)
16:00* vagrantc came to different conclusions from similar beginnings
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16:00
<vagrantc>
:)
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16:02
<sbalneav>
twm does everything a desktop environment needs!
16:02
It decorates windows
16:02
gives you a menu to launch things from
16:02
can tell you what's running
16:02
I mean, what the heck else do you need? :)
16:03
<vagrantc>
default management of windows...
16:03
<sbalneav>
What, you don't like sweeping out the sizes of your new windows?!?!
16:04
I mean, you never need to resize a window, you just make it the size you wanted in the FIRST place :)
16:04
<vagrantc>
that's why i like tritium. i don't have to think about how big i want the window... just where i want it
16:05
<sbalneav>
Well, yeah, till you get 30 windows each one line big :)
16:05
<vagrantc>
no, tritium doesn't resize anything. that's where all the others fail.
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16:05
<sbalneav>
I used ratpoison for a while, tritium's based on RP, right?
16:06* sbalneav wonders if anyone else in here knows what vagrantc and I are talking about :)
16:06
<vagrantc>
it's in the same genre
16:06
ratpoison was the first windowmanager i ever actually liked
16:07
<jelly-bean1>
so i just finished installing ltsp-server but no tftp server is listening on 21
16:07
i realized i already had vsftpd installed and it was intercepting the request. i removed that now.
16:07
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i actually used ratpoison for a few kiosk setups
16:07
<jelly-bean1>
what tftp server does ltsp use?
16:07
<vagrantc>
anyone who could figure out how to open an xterm deserved it
16:07
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: You and I ought to just have an "esoteric window manager face off weekend" and come up with the best window manager to run under LTSP. For some very bizarre quantity of "best"
16:08
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: heh.
16:08
<sbalneav>
jelly-bean1: in debian/ubuntu I think it depends on tftpd-hpa
16:09
Depends: ltsp-server, libasound2-plugins, ltspfs, openssh-server, nbd-server, xbase-clients, ldm-server
16:09
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: absurdist LTSP window manager batallia fantastica
16:09
<sbalneav>
Recommends: pulseaudio-esound-compat, dhcp3-server
16:09
Perfect!
16:09
<vagrantc>
debian allows for atftpd, too
16:09
<jelly-bean1>
how do i start the ltsp serevr
16:09
<vagrantc>
or dnsmasq of sufficient version
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16:09
<sbalneav>
jelly-bean1: are you on Debian or Ubuntu?
16:10
<jelly-bean1>
ubuntu
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16:10
<sbalneav>
then you need to make sure that tftp, dhcpd, nbd-server and ssh are running
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16:11
<jelly-bean1>
i have another server doing the dhcpd
16:11
ssh is running
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16:11
<jelly-bean1>
tftp not allowing me to telnet on 21 so i assume that service is not running
16:11
nbd-server?
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16:12
<sbalneav>
Like we said, I think the best bet would be to install ltsp-server-standalone, then just disable dhcpd
16:12
otherwise you're in for a lot of manual configuration.
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16:14
<jelly-bean1>
ok trying that now
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16:18* Gadi wonders what tftp has to do with port 21
16:18
<Gadi>
(seeing as it runs on port 69)
16:19
<sbalneav>
well, that too :)
16:19* Gadi waves to sbalneav
16:20* Gadi wishes sbalneav were here for a good ole after-work rant session over beer
16:21* sbalneav home phone number is (204) 256-3695
16:21
<jelly-bean1>
i just realized that
16:21
<sbalneav>
gimme a buzz at about 6:30 CST
16:22
<jelly-bean1>
it is working now :D
16:22
well farther, anyway. now its complaining about memory
16:22
<sbalneav>
Or, at your option, I can phone you :)
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16:23
<jelly-bean1>
u r offering free support via phone?
16:24
<Gadi>
sbalneav: u rock.... as always. By that time, I hope that some beer and battlestar galactica will ease my troubled mind :)
16:25
<sbalneav>
jelly-bean1: I'm offering gadi an ear
16:25
<Gadi>
give me an ear, and I'll take....
16:25
<sbalneav>
YOU gotta stay in the channel :)
16:25
<jelly-bean1>
ha
16:26
<sbalneav>
I'm heading home for dinner.
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16:26
<sbalneav>
be back on later, jelly-bean1, hang about a bit, either someone else will help you, or you can wait for my return.
16:26
After Gadi and I have a beer. :)
16:26
see you all in a bit.
16:30
<jelly-bean1>
cya
16:30
its saying Error: Connect: Connection refused
16:30
i wonder if i have to open a port
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17:09
<vagrantc>
whoah
17:10
someone's trying to build LDM and ltspfs for FreeBSD
17:11
<jelly-bean1>
how do i get the nbd server running
17:11
sudo service nbd-server start ** (process:4822): WARNING **: Could not parse config file: Could not open config file.
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17:16
<jelly-bean1>
im having this problem exactly http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5048630&postcount=5
17:21
<vagrantc>
jelly-bean1: it's started from inetd
17:21
invoke-rc.d openbsd-inetd restart
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17:24
<jelly-bean1>
halelujah! that fixed it
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17:25
<jelly-bean1>
thnx vagrantc
17:25
which packages can i install on an ubuntu server installation to make it like an ubuntu desktop install? (e.g. is there some meta package like ubuntu-desktop?)
17:26
<vagrantc>
jelly-bean1: exactly like that
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17:27
<jelly-bean1>
is there a way to get compiz working on the thin client?
17:27
the hw will support it
17:27
its nvidia
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17:29
<jelly-bean1>
http://muzso.hu/2008/08/25/using-compiz-with-ltsp-on-ubuntu-aka.-fixing-the-no-whitelisted-driver-found-for-all-user
17:30
<jhutchins>
jelly-bean1: Isn't compiz pretty much contradictory to the whole idea of a lean, thin client in the first place?
17:31
<jelly-bean1>
these compaq desktops from best buy are only $200/ea and they come with 3d video cards. they are cheaper than even those novelty thin clients at fit-pc.com
17:31
so why not?
17:35
<jhutchins_lt>
jelly-bean1: Network traffic?
17:36
<jelly-bean1>
well how does compiz increase that?
17:36
isnt it loaded in thin client RAM drive and executed locally by local gfx hardware?
17:36
like a livecd
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17:45
<jhutchins_lt>
I dunno. Go for the jiggly windows, maybe it'll help productivity.
17:50
<jelly-bean1>
i want translucent window decorations
17:50
going for a vista theme
17:50
it will help adoption
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18:39
<Lns>
compiz definitely *does* make people go "oooo, aaaaaahh"...
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19:28
<ehrenpr>
is there anyone with any experiebce with sugar and edubuntu karmic?
19:29
experience
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19:36
<mzpl>
hi
19:37
installing ltsp server but thin show an error file not found
19:37
need help please
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19:43
<Ahmuck-Jr>
ehrenpr: yes, nubae does that
19:43
mzpl: could you be more specific?
19:45
<ehrenpr>
I have installed sugar via synaptic but cant login. It just kicks me back to the login screen.
19:47
<mzpl>
we installed ubuntu 9.04
19:47
amd64
19:48
<sbalneav>
are your thin clients 64 bit?
19:48
<mzpl>
thanks for the help we just found the error
19:48
its right in front of the monitor
19:49
good bye
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20:59
<epaphus>
hi all
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<sbalneav>
Hello epaphus
21:06
Son of Zeus and Io
21:06
One of my favorite moons :)
21:07
<epaphus>
how do you know that?
21:07
<sbalneav>
I'm an amateur astronomer, and lover of reading :)
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21:09
<epaphus>
are you greek by any chance?
21:10
<sbalneav>
When I worked at the University of Winnipeg many years ago, I used to name my servers jovian moons :)
21:10
epaphus: Nope, I'm not. Scottish by descent, but Canadian by birth.
21:10
alkisg's greek though.
21:11
<epaphus>
correct.
21:11
ok cool
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22:00
<bigpaws>
I have Ubuntu 9.10 LTSP setup and running. The Box is now headless and the only user that can log in from terminal is the main user.
22:00
The other users get a no response from server .. restarting.
22:01
Will doing sshkeys and updating the image fix that?
22:09
<sbalneav>
Well, if the main user can log in, then no, I'd say not.
22:09
sounds like something else is the problem
22:10
How are userids handled at your site? in /etc/passwd & shadow? Or via ldap or? ...
22:11
<bigpaws>
I believe /etc/passwd
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<bigpaws>
I have users in /etc/passwd
22:14
<sbalneav>
Give this a try
22:14
cd ~user
22:14
:> .xsession-errors
22:14
try logging in as user
22:15
see if there's anything nasty in the users' .xsession-errors file.
22:16
<bigpaws>
Ok I can take a look at that. I have the system off site right now. Funny it was running fine when just before I move the syste,
22:16
s/p syste,/syste,
22:18
I am getting Fatal IO errors localhost:11
22:21
I setup a second server trying to replicate the problem. Of course I was not successful in getting the problem
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22:46
<skeemer>
any thoughts on k12ltsp vs. ubuntu?
22:47
it seems that ubuntu seems to be a bit more efficient than redhat/fedora as a core system
22:49
<sbalneav>
skeemer: distro wars can be discussed elsewhere :)
22:51
<skeemer>
i guess, but i'm curious about peoples experience in ltsp situations
22:52
afaik, not a lot of people do heavily multi-user systems outside the ltsp world
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