LTSP 5 is in minimal maintenance mode
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IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 27 February 2019   (all times are UTC)

00:05
<vagrantc>
you would need to set up an alternate home directory mounting
00:05
such as NFS
00:05
by default, it just mounts the user's home directory with sshfs
00:06
there's also a feature to mount extra mountpoints ... you could mount the other homedirs in another location read-only or something
00:34
<josefig>
vagrantc, thanks i figured out how to do it :)
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03:56
<mwalters>
alkisg: I googled it ;)
04:28
re: one image
04:28
something with gemini, castor & pollux?
04:30
ancient greek mythos is cool ;)
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06:16
<alkisg>
mwalters: thanks, I like the idea... is "dioscuri" (the Greek name for those twins) pronounceable in English, or does it sound bad?
06:16
<wyseguy>
Hi there
06:16
<alkisg>
Hi wyseguy
06:16
<wyseguy>
hi alkisg
06:17
was in the ubuntu channel and someone recomended the ltsp website, found out your have a channel :)
06:18
i have a few wyse windows embeded thin clients and a few thinos thin clients, i am looking to have multiple logins into a ubuntu server with a desktop experience, wondering if this is possible. basically the same setup as windows server with multiple people that rdp in with thin clients, but linux
06:18
<alkisg>
Yeah that's ltsp all right
06:18
How much ram do these have?
06:18
<wyseguy>
great
06:18
um
06:18
good question
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06:19
<wyseguy>
they are all at the office, didnt bring one home
06:19
let me see if i can look it up
06:20
its a Dx0D
06:20
it think 2GB
06:21
<alkisg>
Oh great, then they'll function as "ltsp fat clients"
06:21
Which means, remote disk, not remote cpu/screen
06:21
<wyseguy>
ya these are the ones with thinOS on them
06:21
<alkisg>
They work much better this way
06:21
OK, here's the installation page:
06:21
!install
06:21
<ltsp>
install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
06:21
<alkisg>
Follow it as closely as possible, it works out of the box, THEN start tweaking
06:21
<wyseguy>
okay, do i want to use the ones that have thinOS on them?
06:22
<alkisg>
CPU/RAM ? :)
06:22
<wyseguy>
what about the ones that have windows embeded? cant use those?
06:22
<alkisg>
Are those ARM?
06:22
For all of them, get their specific cpu model and ram
06:22
<wyseguy>
here are the thinOS ones
06:22
Manufacturer: Dell Part Number: 909833-62L+DEVICE ONLY Model Number: Dx0D Description: Dell Wyse 5012-D10D Thin Client 2GB-RAM 2GB-Flash And Antenna 909833-62L+DEVICE ONLY Type: Thin Client Memory Capacity: 2GB Flash Storage Capacity: 2GB Processor Speed: 1.4GHz Operating System: Wyse ThinOS Memory Type: DDR3 SDRAM GENERAL: Product Form Factor Desktop slimline Built-in Devices speaker Manufacturer Wyse Technology Inc. PROCESSOR / CHIPSET: CPU AMD
06:22
G-T48E 1.4 GHz Number of Cores Dual-Core RAM: Memory Speed 1066 MHz PROCESSOR: Max Supported Qty 1 MONITOR: Monitor Type None. NETWORKING: Data Link Protocol Ethernet, Fast Ethernet, Gigabit Ethernet GRAPHICS CONTROLLER: Graphics Processor AMD Radeon HD 6250 Video Interfaces DVI, DisplayPort, VGA AUDIO OUTPUT: Sound Output Mode stereo OPERATING SYSTEM / SOFTWARE OS Provided: Type Wyse Thin OS OS Provided Wyse Thin OS
06:23
<alkisg>
Eh, just the cpu and ram is fine :D
06:23
Your cpu: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+G-T48E&id=1999
06:23
724 score. Not fast, but it works.
06:23
So yup those are fine
06:24
<wyseguy>
okay, now would we be writing over the thinOS? or...
06:24
<alkisg>
No, the disk isn't touched by ltsp
06:24
<wyseguy>
ah got it
06:24
<alkisg>
You only need to enable netbooting on their bios
06:24
<wyseguy>
let me see if i can find the specs of the windows embeded ones
06:24
ah
06:27
Wyse Zx0 Z90D7 Windows 7 WIFI WES7 909686-01L Z90D7 16GB-F 4GB-R 909740-04L
06:27
looks like 4gb ram
06:28
16gb hdd
06:28
Processor Speed: 1.65GHz
06:28
so the windows embeded ones my be a little better
06:28
<alkisg>
Is it this cpu? https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+G-T56N&id=268
06:28
This one has 791 score, about the same thing
06:28
<wyseguy>
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wyse-Zx0-Z90D7-Windows-7-WIFI-WES7-909686-01L-Z90D7-16GB-F-4GB-R-909740-04L-/192718719209?hash=item2cdeee48e9
06:29
not sure
06:29
looking for another posting, maybe they will show
06:29
<alkisg>
The processor ghz isn't significant, it's like saying "my car has 6 gears", so what...
06:30
The cpubenchmark.net listing is a lot more accurate
06:30
<wyseguy>
exactly lol, still looking
06:30
Processor Model: T56N Processor Core: Dual-core (2 Core) Processor Speed: 1.65 GHz
06:30
you got it right
06:31
okay so basically the same processor and a double the ram in these ones
06:31
<alkisg>
Yup
06:32
Also check if all of your clients are 64bit, or if some model is 32bit
06:32
<wyseguy>
so my next question is do i install ubuntu desktop and then follow the steps or ubuntu server?
06:32
<alkisg>
So that you know which one to install on your server
06:32
<wyseguy>
figure ubuntu is ubuntu is ubuntu
06:32
ah
06:32
good catch
06:32
<alkisg>
Read the wiki page, I answered that question there too :)
06:32
<wyseguy>
was just browsing it
06:33
typical of me to skip the first line LOL
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06:35
<wyseguy>
how come we want the user machines to do the bulk of the processing rather than the server?
06:35
cant used these wyse boxes at thin clients?
06:36
has to be fat?
06:36
<alkisg>
!flash
06:36
<ltsp>
flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
06:36
<wyseguy>
would rather have the server handle the bulk of the processing as it has a lot of resources
06:36
<alkisg>
Do you have 2.5 gbps *per client*?
06:37
E.g. 25 gbps for 10 clients? :D
06:37
<wyseguy>
i have dual 10gb cards in the server
06:37
<alkisg>
Toggling thin/fat client is just one line in a configuration file, lts.conf
06:37
So you can test and see for yourself which one works better in your setup
06:37
<wyseguy>
so i take it this is a LOT different than how RDP works
06:37
<alkisg>
HJow many clients?
06:37
<wyseguy>
about 8
06:38
<alkisg>
Nope, it's not very different, remote screen is always like that
06:38
<wyseguy>
but 2.5gbps?
06:38
<alkisg>
Yup, do the math
06:38
<wyseguy>
seems super excessive for remote screen
06:38
<alkisg>
In some versions of rdp there are hooks to "catch" the video and send it to the client for decoding there
06:38
It's called "remote fx"; it's the only way to avoid 2.5 gbps
06:38
...and that's basically "fat client", just for youtube though
06:39
<wyseguy>
ah, so the fx is handeled by the client
06:39
got it
06:39
<alkisg>
In some *rare* cases of good rdp setups
06:39
I don't know if you do have such a setup
06:39
The screen bandwidth is the reason hdmi streams are compressed
06:39
And even lvds signals are compressed too
06:40
Remote disk needs so much less bandwidth; so we don't recommend the thin client model anymore
06:40
<wyseguy>
hp dl360 g8, raid10 , enterprise ssd for os, 96gb ram, dual 10gb to 10gb switch, bunch of wyse thin clients
06:40
got it
06:41
would a raspberry pi do a better job?
06:41
as the end client?
06:41
<alkisg>
No, their cpu score is like 100 vs your 750
06:41
<wyseguy>
ahh
06:41
okay
06:42
ill give this a go tomorrow and see how it goes
06:42
thanks for all the info!
06:42
<alkisg>
You have an ideal setup for thin clients though
06:42
With that networking and ram
06:42
So you can test both
06:42
bb
06:42
<wyseguy>
ya, i have 3 identical servers so i will be able to testlab this stuff
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12:20
<JuJUBee>
How big of a partition should I have with LTSP server? I don't have tons of apps installed. Currently have 100G and again need to expand my partition. Got to 88% writing image and it failed.
12:20
Is there a backup image I can remove before trying ltsp-update-image ?
12:22
<alkisg>
JuJUBee: sudo apt clean; sudo rm /opt/ltsp/images/*.old
12:22
JuJUBee: a typical installation needs 40 MB with the image and everything
12:22
So I guess the problem is your /home ?
12:24
<JuJUBee>
no, /home is separate partition
12:24
40M or 40G ?
12:24
<alkisg>
JuJUBee: run `du -sh /` or something similar, to see what takes up your space
12:24
40 GB, sorry
12:24
<JuJUBee>
Whew...
12:24
<alkisg>
That's including /home for a typical school
12:25
Along with 5 GB of educational apps...
12:25
<JuJUBee>
The .old image was taking 27G
12:25
Should be good now
12:25
<alkisg>
JuJUBee: woah
12:25
I guess you put something in the image that you shouldn't
12:26
E.g. if you use /home2 instead of /home, and chrootless ltsp,then this goes into the image
12:26
You should exclude such things from /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.excludes
12:26
27GB, oh my, that would need 1+ hour to be generated
12:26
A typical image is 10 times less
12:28
<JuJUBee>
Never thought of that. Just added it. Thanks for the help
12:28
And yes, took over 1 hour
12:29
<alkisg>
Usually it needs less than 10 minutes
12:31
<JuJUBee>
Do I need to restart ltsp server after editing the excludes before running update-image?
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12:32
<alkisg>
JuJUBee: no
12:33
So if your final image is over 5 GB, it still has issues
12:33
<JuJUBee>
ok, i'll let you know how it turns out
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13:11
<JuJUBee>
alkisg, something else must be wonky. Was only at 28% after 30 min.
13:16
<mwalters>
alkisg: trying to figure out how "dioscuri" should be pronounced in English... either of the two possibilities I come up with aren't "hard" though ;)
13:17
<fiesh>
our current image has 42GB :)
13:22
<mwalters>
"dye-oh-sc-your-ee"
13:22
This is fine for english speakers
13:22
(at least in my opinion)
13:22
I'm sure a bunch of people may pronounce it "dee-oh-scur-ee"
13:23
I would have if I didn't know it was greek
13:23
<fiesh>
dinoscrewyou
13:23
<mwalters>
In any case, I like it... relevant but different
13:29
think it was vagrant who brought it up, keeping the binary tool names short and "comfortable" to type should be a priority, too
13:30
comfort is hard to measure, and changes based on the keyboard layout you're using. "ltsp" is short and super easy to type on an english qwerty keyboard
13:31
s/binary/command line
13:32
/wall of text ;)
13:33
<alkisg>
(03:22:53 PM) mwalters: I'm sure a bunch of people may pronounce it "dee-oh-scur-ee" ==> and that would be the correct one ;)
13:34
<mwalters>
oh really? I googled and found "d-eye-oh-sc-your-ee"
13:34
Imagine not being able to believe everything you find on the internet ;)
13:34
<alkisg>
Eh, I don't know if it's correct in english or not, but this isn't the greek pronunciation
13:34
<mwalters>
oic
13:34
<alkisg>
dee-oh is "two" in greek
13:35
d eye oh ... is ... not greek, we don't use "eye" a lot
13:35
<mwalters>
Yeah, usually "i" is pronounced as a long e in most languages that aren't english... but I always thought Greek was an exception... or was often the exception
13:35
not sure where I came up with this then
13:35
maybe a difference between modern Greek and what we learn about ancient Greece
13:36
<alkisg>
(03:17:50 PM) fiesh: our current image has 42GB :) ==> wth?! What are you putting in there, the whole wikipedia?
13:36
<mwalters>
and it's really "latin" that's pronounced that way
13:36
in any case, both sound fine ;)
13:36
<alkisg>
I think it's the best one so far
13:36
I'll copyright it to you :D
13:37
<mwalters>
This fanless fat client thread on the mailing list finally "solved" my freezing problem I think
13:37
all these freezing clients are celeron j1900s =/
13:37
hah, thanks
13:37
<alkisg>
I need to keep an eye open for this issue, some schools may be affected
13:38
<mwalters>
no worries though... I haven't contributed any code yet, the least I can do is contribute a stream of conciousness ;0
13:38
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109051
13:38
the relevant bug
13:42
<fiesh>
28GB of debugging symbols for /usr/lib64 alone
13:42
plus 4gb of debugging source in /usr/src/debug
13:54
<alkisg>
fiesh: can't you use LOCALAPPS_EXTRA_MOUNTS for debugging symbols?
13:54
And exclude them with ltsp-update-image.excludes?
13:54
They're not use frequently by clients, are they?
13:54
Or even plain old nfs...
14:06
<fiesh>
hmm I suppose I could, what would be the advantage?
14:07
<alkisg>
Save disk space and ltsp-update-image time
14:07
That's about it
14:08
E.g. running ltsp-update-image in 5 mins instead of 50 is usually desirable...
14:22
<fiesh>
hmm ltsp-update-image takes definitely less than 10 minutes, I've never timed it, but I'd say it's maybe around 3 from the feeling of it
14:22
so then I'm all good :)
14:35
<alkisg>
28 GB in 3 mins? YEAH you'd good :D
14:35
*you're
14:46
<fiesh>
we have a lot of cores and I switched the compression to lz4 since it performs faster on the clients
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16:30
<JuJUBee>
alkisg, 3.7G
16:40
<alkisg>
JuJUBee: that's better ;)
16:42
<JuJUBee>
Much, thanks for the help.
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17:08
<alkisg>
vagrantc: so, dioskuri it is :)
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17:47* vagrantc blinks
17:57
<alkisg>
:D
17:57
twins from the ancient greek pantheon
17:59
<vagrantc>
and you were worried about thinking LTSP was out of date!
18:00
<alkisg>
eh, when ltsp will become 3000 years old, it'll be "classic" too :D
18:00
<vagrantc>
heh
18:00
<alkisg>
does it sound pronouncable?
18:00
deeoskuree
18:01
(at least that's the greek pronunciation...)
18:01
<vagrantc>
dios means god in spanish, at least
18:01
probably the same root
18:02
<alkisg>
deeo is two in greek
18:02
(because they were twins)
18:03
<vagrantc>
ah
18:23
<mwalters>
Beyond that, there isn't much corollary in the story ;)
18:24
I mean.. unless the server decides to go to hell because someone kills a client
18:24
hopefully that'll never be a bug
18:24
:D
18:24
I guess that isn't a good metaphor
18:25
One client dies and then another decides to go to hell in its place?
18:25
Maybe this is taking it too far
18:28
With the move to systemd, are the RCFILE_## lts.conf entries still valid?
18:29
<alkisg>
Υθπ
18:29
Also, yup
18:29
<mwalters>
does it still look in /etc/rc.local, or does it use the systemd path?
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18:35
<mwalters>
maybe I should actually ask this... I want to run a python script on the fat client when it boots (to mitigate that CPU/Kernel bug), is RCFILE_## the right way to do that?
18:50
<alkisg>
it creates an rc.local if it doesn't exist
18:50
INIT_COMMAND_* is for veeeery early commands
18:50
RC_FILE* is for later
18:56
<mwalters>
ok, thanks!
18:57
oh! I get it... I specify something like... RCFILE_01 = /opt/my_stuff/my_script.sh, ltsp/lts.conf injects it into rc.local on the client
18:58
or something similar
18:58
I'm overcomplicated it in my head
18:58
overcomplicating
18:58
<alkisg>
it just adds the line you specify to lts.conf
18:58
it doesn't copy scripts etc
18:59
<mwalters>
yeah
18:59
<quinox>
you can also put it in /etc/rc.local in the image directly
18:59
<mwalters>
sure, this is something I don't want all the clients to execute, though
18:59
so use like/mac targeting
19:00
<quinox>
you can test CPU vulns from inside linux
19:00
that way you don't have to keep track of all those clients yourself
19:00
<mwalters>
yeah, as I typed that I started to think if I should just check the cpu name in the script ;)
19:00
getting all those mac addresses seems tiresome :D
19:01
<quinox>
quinox@ghost:/proc$ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/*
19:01
Mitigation: PTE Inversion
19:01
Mitigation: PTI
19:01
Vulnerable
19:01
Mitigation: __user pointer sanitization
19:01
Mitigation: Full generic retpoline
19:01
<mwalters>
This is a kernel bug w/ cstates
19:01
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109051
19:03
<quinox>
that thread is loooong
19:03
<mwalters>
yup :D
19:03
afaik, it's still not fixed
19:03
just workarounds
19:35
<alkisg>
mwalters: just put a script in /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d, that checks cpu and applies the patch/whatever
19:47
<mwalters>
oic, thanks
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