IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 May 2011   (all times are UTC)

00:01
<Hyperbyte>
Yay. :) I got the LTSP thin clients I ordered yesterday. Came in horribly early this morning to get rid of all desktops. :)
00:02* Hyperbyte is once again very happy thanks to LTSP
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00:06
<gnunux>
hi
00:06
<muppis>
Hi.
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01:53
<mistik1>
Hyperbyte: You know what was shocking to me when I first started using LTSP, the absense of noise in an office
01:53
<Hyperbyte>
mistik1, yeah!
01:53
<mistik1>
Its a very nice sideeffect
01:53
<Hyperbyte>
I started working at 7 AM this morning... people start here at 9
01:53
Had to replace 9 workstations in one office
01:53
<mistik1>
You never notice how much noise you have till its all gone, eh?
01:54
<Hyperbyte>
When I arrived I turned the radio up waaaay loud, because that's how it goes at 7 AM. :)
01:54
When the building is empty. :D
01:54
<mistik1>
hehe
01:54
<Hyperbyte>
And when I was finished at a quarter to nine I turned it off again and for a moment it felt like pure bliss.
01:55
It's too bad power is included in the rent here, else I could've had another happy moment when we got the power bill
01:56Da-Geek (~Da-Geek@nat/redhat/x-kizhplkrfawbzicz) joined #ltsp.
01:56
<Hyperbyte>
Hey Gavin. :)
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02:02
<Da-Geek>
Hyperbyte, hey hey hey :-)
02:10
<Hyperbyte>
How are you? I spent this morning installing official LTSP clients here. :)
02:11
All midi-tower PC's gone... :)
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02:11* Hyperbyte is really really happy. :)
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02:13
<knipwim>
good work Hyperbyte !
02:19
<Hyperbyte>
Thanks! :)
02:19
Next project will be upgrading to Fedora 15...
02:20
Either that, or Ubuntu... I need to investigate.
02:20
Would love Fedora, but it kinda depends on Da-Geek. ;-)
02:25* alkisg is also happy because he just automated wireless on/off in his laptop + router :P When I'm using a wired connection, wireless is automatically turned off in my laptop + router, and when I press win+w they're turned back on . dbus+curl ftw! :)
02:26
<Da-Geek>
Hyperbyte, not me anymore, as im sure you have seen that warren it taking it all back @ the moment
02:27* Da-Geek will have to sit back and wait i guess see what Warren does...
02:28
<Da-Geek>
Hyperbyte, its an interesting approach to the situation, but it seems to have kick started things a bit
02:52
<Hyperbyte>
Warren is only talking about LTSP with RHEL6 right?
02:52
I haven't seen him say anything about Fedora...
02:53
Because if he's doing Fedora as well I'd see how much I can get in the form of a donation....
02:53
Exchange rate of the euro vs. dollar is very good at the moment
02:54
But as far as I could gather, he didn't say a word about Fedora. I mentioned that I found it strange that your contributions were never committed to Fedora official packages, he didn't say anything about it...
02:54
Do please correct me if I'm wrong though.
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03:33
<Hyperbyte>
I have problems with menu icons and text disappearing in OpenOffice... it's supposed to be caused by anti aliasing in combination with the video driver.
03:34
I've found some info on it, someone suggests changing xorg.conf settings. My question is: where? On the client or server?
03:34
I'd assume the anti aliasing is all done on the server, before the display is sent to the client
03:35
Is this correct?
03:35
Wait, no - it's not is it? I mean, the server's X isn't even used with LTSP right?
03:36
I think I just answered my own question.
03:38
Okay next question. How can I set xorg.conf options for all clients?
03:42
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: man lts.conf
03:42
If it's some weird option that's not there, you can use a customized xorg.conf and X_CONF=xxx
03:42
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
03:42
X_OPTION_01...X_OPTION_12 A valid Device option
03:42
Which option you want, btw?
03:45
<Hyperbyte>
Well at this point I'm just trying to see what does what
03:45
But apparently "RenderAccel" set to false is supposed to fix fonts in OpenOffice
03:54
<alkisg>
X_OPTION_01="\"RenderAccel\" \"False\""
03:55
Also try disabling compiz, it might help
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03:59
<Hyperbyte>
I don't think Compiz is enabled
03:59
How do I check?
04:00
I tried accessing "Desktop Settings" in the Gnome preferences, but that doesn't actually work.
04:01
<alkisg>
ps -ef|grep -i compiz
04:01
or ps -ef|grep -i metacity
04:02
<Hyperbyte>
It's using metacity.
04:02
<alkisg>
That's on the client?
04:02
Or the server?
04:02
<Hyperbyte>
Server
04:02
<alkisg>
OK
04:03
<Hyperbyte>
How can I check if the X_OPTION_01 actually gets set with X?
04:03
On the client?
04:03
<alkisg>
Do you have a shell on the client?
04:03
<Hyperbyte>
Yes
04:03
<alkisg>
E.g. with ltsp-localapps xterm, or with ssh?
04:03
OK
04:03
getltscfg -a
04:04
<Hyperbyte>
Well, that'll show it. lts.conf all works
04:04
But I was more wondering how I can see where it goes from there. Because I didn't notice any change on the clients whatsoever with the option set, also didn't find an xorg.conf file
04:05
<alkisg>
ps -ef|grep xorg
04:05
It should be an option to X
04:05
<Hyperbyte>
Ahh
04:06
Okay super.
04:07
Ah, it does it via /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf :) Nice.
04:11
No effect. :-) Still, nice experiment.
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04:18
<Da-Geek>
Hyperbyte, if its an issue with the driver, just set the driver to something simple like 'vesa'
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04:20
<Hyperbyte>
Da-Geek, how do I do that in Fedora?
04:22
<Da-Geek>
in the xorg.conf change the driver line to say something like, Driver "vesa"
04:22
Hyperbyte, i have no idea what the default is in LTSP.. it may already be vesa...
04:23
<Hyperbyte>
No, it's i915
04:23
<alkisg>
XSERVER=vesa, usually
04:24
Which chipset? lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
04:24
<Hyperbyte>
http://www.disklessworkstations.com/200123.html
04:24
:)
04:24
Intel GMA 950
04:27
I can safely say that VESA driver isn't going to work, or at least doesn't look like it
04:27
Then again, I am using these things with 1440x1024 displays, dual...
04:28
Or 1440x1080 actually
04:28
Anyway, LDM screen flickers madly (wrong refresh rate?), after login screen is all white... and second monitor doesn't even turn on
04:29
<alkisg>
Try to set your desired output with xrandr
04:29
If you can do that, you can then put XRANDR* options to lts.conf
04:31
<Hyperbyte>
:O That's gonna be a pain... I don't have identical displays for every client.
04:31
<alkisg>
They _all_ flicker?
04:31
<Hyperbyte>
I only tested with one.
04:33
I put XRANDR_MODE_0="1440x1080" and XRANDR_RATE_0="65"
04:36
No luck
04:36
I should mention something else, which I didn't think anything of before, but now I do...
04:36
With the new clients, LDM doesn't show "Username" prompt or logo
04:36
Wait
04:36
I should say "Username" label
04:37
It shows the prompt, just not the actual text
04:37
It does however show the "Password" prompt after entering the username
04:37
**label
04:38
Before we had one LTSP client to test with (also Intel GMA hardware) and it had the same symptoms (LDM only showing half, OpenOffice menu's disappearing)... back then I thought it was because it's a dualhead with two 22" monitors.. I thought it was a bug in LDM/OpenOffice
04:39
Now I'm starting to wonder, because the PC's I used before as netboot clients (with nvidia graphics cards) don't have this problem.
04:40
<alkisg>
Did you also try nomodeset as a kernel parameter?
04:40
(if your fedora has kms, that is...)
04:41
<Hyperbyte>
(I am slowly and surely regretting of not switching to Ubuntu last-minute)
04:41
(I highly considered it, but figured since I got this far, the rest would work out)
04:41
I only ever used Fedora for servers, it's always been pretty awesome at that... but the graphical part, even the non-LTSP graphical part, is seriously disappointing me...
04:41
:(
04:42
<alkisg>
For some intel clients here I had to use a newer kernel. Fortunately it was as easy as "apt-get install linux-image-generic-lts-backport-maverick"
04:43
<Hyperbyte>
They're using kernel 2.6.34.7-56.fc13.i686
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04:46
<Hyperbyte>
nomodeset didn't change anything
04:50
<alkisg>
You can see it in `cat /proc/cmdline` ?
04:51
<Hyperbyte>
Actually, no.
04:51
option option-129 code 129 = text;
04:51
option option-129 "nomodeset";
04:51
^^ that's what I added to dhcpd.conf
04:51
<alkisg>
That's for etherboot
04:51
It won't work with pxe clients
04:51
<Hyperbyte>
:O
04:52
Okay, where do I put this? :)
04:52
<alkisg>
In ubuntu it's in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
04:52
<Hyperbyte>
Okay, restart
04:52
Same in Fedora
04:52
<alkisg>
Fedora uses nbd?
04:52
I thought it used nfs by default...
04:57
<Hyperbyte>
It does
04:57
<alkisg>
Weird that it uses tftp for lts.conf then, if it's already exported with nfs
04:57
E.g. debian uses /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
04:58* Hyperbyte shrugs. :-)
04:58
<Hyperbyte>
Anyway
04:58
Modesetting disabled
04:59
Now X doesn't start with error "no kernel modesetting driver detected", from the intel module
04:59
<alkisg>
Heh, fun
04:59
There are also some exa/uxa* related xorg.conf settings for the intel driver
05:00
Trial and error... hope it takes you less than a day :)
05:00
<Hyperbyte>
This is way above my head. If you have anything I can copy/paste into lts.conf, or some documentation I can find...
05:00
I have one question really.
05:00
<alkisg>
man intel
05:00
<Hyperbyte>
Would switching to Ubuntu fix this?
05:00
<alkisg>
That's your source for the settings...
05:00
No idea. You can try with the edubuntu live dvd
05:00
It offers live ltsp so you can test without installing anything
05:01
E.g. if you use the natty dvd, the xorg problem might be fixed there
05:01
And maybe if you used a more recent fedora version, it might be fixed there too, but afaik ltsp won't work on newer fedora?
05:02
<Hyperbyte>
Well, it can. But apparently Warren Togami doesn't want it to.
05:02
Only on RedHat Enterprise Linux
05:02
Unless I really misunderstood the discussion on the k12linux mailing list
05:02
<alkisg>
You don't have other repositories for non official packages?
05:03
<Hyperbyte>
It's a bit technical for me, Da-Geek could probably explain it better
05:03
<alkisg>
Anyway, it doesn't matter
05:03
<Hyperbyte>
Why not? :)
05:03
<alkisg>
I mean that it doesn't matter if you have non-official repositories or not, if you don't have someone to get the packages ready
05:04
<Hyperbyte>
Oh, yeah.
05:04
<alkisg>
E.g. when I want something fixed for greek schools, I just override the ubuntu package with our "greek schools ppa" repository
05:04
<Hyperbyte>
Well there are a bunch of unofficial reposities I think... for things like MP3 support, proprietary drivers for nvidia/ati...
05:04
<alkisg>
So that gives us a good way to support many schools even if some packages in ubuntu lack something
05:06
<Hyperbyte>
If I were to switch to Ubuntu, which version/spinoff would you recommend?
05:06
<alkisg>
I'm using LTS releases, but considering your problem, I'd recommend edubuntu 11.04
05:07
<Hyperbyte>
LTS releases are older?
05:07
<alkisg>
They release every 2 years, while non-LTS every 6 months
05:07
<Hyperbyte>
Ahh
05:07
<alkisg>
So current LTS==10.04, and current non-LTS==11.04, one year younger
05:08
<Hyperbyte>
:)
05:08
Also, something I've been wondering about... what's the relation between LTSP and DLWS?
05:08
Diskless Workstations
05:09
<alkisg>
I think they founded ltsp and they had developers working in it until ltsp 4 or something
05:09
Then ubuntu put some developers for ltsp 5, and dlws focused on selling their stuff? Dunno, something like that
05:10
Now I don't think any of the ltsp developers are being paid by dlws or any distro for working on ltsp
05:13
<mgariepy>
Hyperbyte, what intel card do you have ?
05:13
i have some issue on natty with intel...
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05:15
<Hyperbyte>
mgariepy, I'm using LTSP terminals 1720
05:16
They have Intel GMA 950
05:16
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: also try X_OPTION_01="\"NoAccel\" \"True\""
05:16
<Hyperbyte>
I did :(
05:16
No actually, I just tried "NoAccel"
05:16
Without the True bit.
05:16
<alkisg>
You tried RenderAccel, did you also try NoAccel?
05:16
OK
05:16
Try it
05:17
<Hyperbyte>
Trying
05:17
<alkisg>
Option "NoAccel" "boolean"
05:17
Disable or enable acceleration.
05:17
So just "noaccel" wouldn't work, afaik
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05:22
<Hyperbyte>
I made sure the NoAccel made it into /var/run/ltsp-xorg.org
05:22
Which it did
05:23
But it didn't have the desired effect
05:23
<alkisg>
Did you also try vesa and/or fbdev?
05:23
<Hyperbyte>
fbdev? Doesn't ring a bell.
05:24
<alkisg>
It's like vesa but a little better
05:24
<Hyperbyte>
I tried XSERVER=vesa earlier, but screen started acting up (flickering)... tried XRANDR mode like you suggested, also no cake.
05:24
So XSERVER=fbdev?
05:29
Hehe, with that it runs at perhaps 320x200 or something, with weird colors. :)
05:31
http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/ltsp-fedora-ldm.jpg <- this is what it does without any special options, thought I'd demonstrate what LDM looks like. Only the login prompt appears, the logo and input box label isn't there (I made a custom theme)
05:32
ltsp-fedora-ldm-fbdev.jpg <- that's what it looks like with fbdev
05:33
<alkisg>
Hehe, cute
05:43
<Hyperbyte>
mgariepy? :-)
05:45
alkisg, does Edubuntu still use Gnome 2?
05:45
<mgariepy>
yep
05:45
in 11.04
05:45
<Hyperbyte>
Ah
05:45
<mgariepy>
up until 11.04
05:45
<Hyperbyte>
Did you see my comment up above, mgariepy, about the Intel GMA 950?
05:46
Because I'd like to know if you're having the same problems as me.
05:46
I'd absolutely hate it if I switched all the way over to Ubuntu just to run into the same problem.
05:47
<alkisg>
You can try ltsp with the live cd in just a few minutes
05:47
<mgariepy>
i don't have this one but i have transparency bug on some chipset in 11.04 and 3d acceleration is broken
05:47
<alkisg>
No need to "switch" before testing...
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05:47
<mgariepy>
you can start a live ltsp from the edubuntu dvd
05:48
http://edubuntu.org/documentation/ltsp-live
05:49
<Hyperbyte>
Could (probably should) do that yeah..
05:49
Although I'm included to conclude that it's the best thing and since I'm using LTSP terminals it should just work.
05:49
*inclined
05:50
<mgariepy>
it 11.04 doesn't work maybe you can try 10.10
05:51
the two bug i talked about are launchpad #785280 and #785368
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05:53
<Hyperbyte>
I'm very confident they'll get fixed. :)
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06:13
<mgariepy>
Hyperbyte, i hope so ;)
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06:32
<Hyperbyte>
Da-Geek, well, I like Warren's current explaination a lot better than his previous one
06:35
:)
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08:23
<highvoltage>
hey vagrantc. thanks for the upload! I signed up to the alioth list
08:24
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: excellent!
08:24
for reasons mysterious to me, it hasn't yet showed up in the new queue
08:25
but it should hit: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
08:25
anytime now...
08:28
<alkisg>
So now Debian will have fancy themes too? Time to switch to gentoo... :P :D
08:28
<dberkholz>
i even made a commit to the gentoo ltsp repo a day or two ago.
08:29
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: yeah I noticed that too! will also check after lunch :)
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08:31
<vagrantc>
alkisg: hah!
08:31
<alkisg>
I thought it was part of Debian policy not to have anything fancy :
08:31
:)
08:31
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think that's just my personal vendetta
08:32
it's on a maintainer case-by-case basis, but the trend shows how that goes
08:32
gotta leave something for ubuntu to do, right? :)
08:36
may is apparently the month for non-debian-based distros to commit to ltsp-trunk!
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08:42
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: we'd best merge it into a VCS ... probably bzr, just for consistancy
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08:56
<vagrantc>
dberkholz: did you remember to push your changes?
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09:45
<dberkholz>
just packaging changes, but sure =P http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/ltsp.git;a=summary
09:47
<vagrantc>
dberkholz: ah, i didn't see any commits upstream, so i was curious
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09:47
<dberkholz>
wim's doing almost everything these days, as you can see from the link
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10:07
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: any preferences for where?
10:12
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: in the pkg-ltsp alioth.debian.org project ... i.e. bzr.debian.org ... which is currently down.
10:12
highvoltage: i also have launchpad mirror them for good measure.
10:13
highvoltage: not hugely important till we actually hit the archive and make a second upload.
10:14
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: ok, I'll watch out for when it comes back up
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11:14
<dantix>
hi all, a partner of mine migrated a ltsp box to a vm and all follows working. Recently I've noticed about the thin clients are booting from the new server but are mounting its root filesystem from the old server. How can I resolve this issue ? I need to shutdown the old server..
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11:21
<dantix>
hi all, a partner of mine migrated a ltsp box to a vm and all follows working. Recently I've noticed about the thin clients are booting from the new server but are mounting its root filesystem from the old server. How can I resolve this issue ? I need to shutdown the old server..
11:22
<alkisg>
dantix: distro/version?
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11:25
<dantix>
debian/4.2
11:25
hi alkisg!
11:27
<alkisg>
LTSP 4.2?!?
11:27
<dantix>
yes
11:27
<alkisg>
I don't think anyone will support that anymore...
11:28* alkisg has never seen LTSP 4.2
11:28
<alkisg>
If it's using nfs for the root file system, you might want to change option root-path in dhcpd.conf
11:29
<dantix>
alkisg: thanks will check that
11:33
alkisg: thanks, resolved by you
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11:38
<mgariepy>
apparently ltsp 4.2 was working way too well :)
11:38
<abeehc>
lol
11:46
<dantix>
one more, all my thin clients are running rdesktop, however a can't see they issuing ps ax on server console. sure there are a way to see what are doing the thin clients
11:46
*there is
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12:11
<alkisg>
dantix: if they're running rdesktop, they're running it locally, so you can't see it from the server
12:12
You'd need to get a shell locally to see that
12:12
Either with ssh, or with SCREEN_02=shell in lts.conf, if that worked back in 4.2...
12:12
Or by unlocking the root password
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12:28
<dantix>
but, the ltsp documentation says the processes were ran on server and showed at X server running at client, isn't it?
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12:30
<highvoltage>
anyone mind pasting my last quit message?
12:30
<abeehc>
[Quit: Lost terminal]
12:30
<highvoltage>
thanks abeehc
12:31
(I guess irssi doesn't like it when I make my terminal window too small)
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12:33
<abeehc>
heh, same
12:33
i think it was screen that got angry
12:51
<dantix>
my concept is wrong? or there are a way to define where the application will run on?
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13:05
<abeehc>
rdesktop is special and runs locally - at least on ltsp5
13:10
<alkisg>
dantix: if the application runs after logon, it runs on the server
13:10
(usually)
13:10
Do you logon to run rdesktop? Or it runs directly before logon?
13:12
<dantix>
alkisg: before :'(
13:13
<alkisg>
That's good, it runs faster this way
13:13
You just need one of the above methods to see the process list, if you want it
13:13
Because rdesktop runs local
13:14
<dantix>
then is magic! pentium 133 with 32MB RAM runs flawlessly rdesktop, amazing
13:14
alkisg: thanks a lot
13:15
<alkisg>
Ah, that's why you need ltsp 4.2 :)
13:15
LTSP 5 wouldn't work on that
13:15
<dantix>
alkisg: recently I've took control from this instalation, I hope in the near future migrate to the last version
13:16
<alkisg>
You'll need better hardware before you upgrade ltsp
13:16
Don't even think about upgrading without 128 ram
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13:18
<dubkat>
hey guys, i got a question
13:18
so i have my ltsp server setup, and my thin clients boot up
13:19
but when i attempt to login, i get a message below the password field that says "message from server: rebooting..."
13:19
any ideas what i have setup wrong?
13:20
<dantix>
alkisg: right, taken a note of that...
13:20
bye Sirs! o/
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13:21
<alkisg>
dubkat: if you have ubuntu, try: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image
13:22
That's needed when the server ip is changed
13:26
<dubkat>
http://pastebin.com/jxnx13T1
13:26
got some errors
13:27
its like it cant make up its mind, i386 or i686
13:30
<alkisg>
dubkat: distro/version?
13:30
<dubkat>
ubuntu 11.04
13:30
<alkisg>
Why is there an i686 dir?
13:30
It should either be i386, or amd64...
13:30
Did you manually create that?
13:31
(/opt/ltsp/i686)
13:31
<dubkat>
i do *not* know, i did not create it by hand
13:31
to start over, i just wipe out that directory, right?
13:31
<alkisg>
ls -l /opt/ltsp
13:31
What do you have there?
13:31
<dubkat>
rm -rf /opt/ltsp
13:32
root@cheetah:~# ls -hl /opt/ltsp/
13:32
total 12K
13:32
drwxr-xr-x 20 root root 4.0K 2011-05-20 13:44 i386
13:32
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K 2011-05-20 13:40 i686
13:32
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K 2011-05-20 16:24 images
13:32
<alkisg>
OK, just rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i686
13:32
I don't think you need to delete the i386 one yet, unless some other error comes up
13:33
So now ltsp-update-sshkeys shouldn't complain, right?
13:35
<dubkat>
ok, so that worked
13:35
and not, sshkeys didn't complain
13:35
so now i logged in as a test user
13:36
blah blahblah, no hardware for unity... ok. thats nice, i don't care
13:36
how do i make that shut up for all the other users?
13:36
and also, other than a wallpaper, there's no desktop (but i CAN right click and get a menu)
13:36
did i miss a step somewhere?
13:36* alkisg sticks with LTS releases, no idea about 11.04, wait for someone else... :)
13:38
<dubkat>
thanks for your help with the other issue alkisg
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15:15
<dubkat>
i am going to downgrade to LTS. just so i'm clear, i want the Alternate Installer CD ?
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15:41
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: doh. gtk2-engineS-murrine
15:42
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: yep, saw the mail. weird that that didn't catch me when testing, I guess I didn't install recommends.
15:43
<vagrantc>
missing recommends don't typically cause it to fail to install, it jsut mumbles gently about them
15:43
i should've caught it too
15:44
try try again.
15:44
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: I've updated the files on http://jonathancarter.org/files/debian/
15:45
<dubkat>
oh, and my problem with gnome, .xsession errors had just a mountian of errors about unable to load this, and that, and dbus crashed, and "theres already a display running". screw that
15:46
id rather useand older version and have it "work"
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16:00
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: re-uploaded.
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16:08
<highvoltage>
thanks!
16:09
<vagrantc>
seems like new processing is really swift these days
16:09
or we just got lucky ... and will wait another month for this to be re-approved
16:25
<highvoltage>
heh :)
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00:00--- Sat May 21 2011