IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 17 June 2014   (all times are UTC)

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01:59
<pat___>
Hello. newbie here. How can I update Google Chrome as a local app in the image?
02:00
I can install other apps (chroot /opt/ltsp/i386....etc) Chrome is being a bugger. I've added the correct repository, but I get a list of dependencies that wont install.
02:01
<vagrantc>
must not be the correct repository for your particular release if the dependencies don't resolve...
02:07
<pat___>
Here is what I've done
02:07
wget -q -O - https://dl-ssl.google.com/linux/linux_signing_key.pub | sudo apt-key add - sudo sh -c 'echo "deb http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main" >> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google.list' sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install google-chrome-stable
02:07
this is for 10.04
02:10
<vagrantc>
10.04?
02:10
<pat___>
Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
02:11
<vagrantc>
not quite *this* long-term... support for that was dropped in April.
02:12
<pat___>
I'm aware. We are in the process of planning to upgrade to 12.04 in the next few months
02:12
<jammcq>
next april
02:13
<vagrantc>
for the server components
02:13
the desktop components were dropped over a year ago.
02:13
<jammcq>
ah
02:13
so we'll average it out and say "this april" :)
02:13
<vagrantc>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
02:14
<jammcq>
I think I heard that future LTS releases will be for 5 years on both server and desktop
02:14
<vagrantc>
pat___: no idea what that google repository is supposed to support.
02:14
<jammcq>
that's for the chrome browser
02:14
<vagrantc>
jammcq: yeah, that's what it looks like.
02:15
jammcq: yes, i know that, but what *distro* does it support?
02:15
<pat___>
I got that from here: http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppa/google_chrome
02:17
<vagrantc>
that doesn't really clarify what distro and release it is for...
02:17
my hunch is you'll need a newer distro, if it can't resolve the dependencies
02:18
<pat___>
I see
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02:21
<pat___>
thanks
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08:47
<hafke>
hi all, I'm having problems with a fresh ltsp install on ubuntu 12.04. shortly after the boot of my app server ltsp-cluster-accountmanager and ltsp-cluster-lbagent crash. can anybody help me, what info do you need?
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10:34
<valeriobozzolan>
Uh what a pity... I thought that FAT clients were only thin clients that boot with an image that includes the desktop pakages... I thought that fat clients uses server pakages but using their RAM and CPU.. and instead every pakage have to be manually included in ltsp-build-client.conf and for every change I have to rebuild the image...
10:34
:|
10:35
I'm right?
10:35
<der_baer>
yep or you use nfs chroots instead of nbd
10:35
<SpComb>
valeriobozzolan: ltsp-pnp
10:36
ltsp-build-image is very much optimized for thin clients
10:45
<valeriobozzolan>
Ah, another question:
10:45
I successfully built a FAT image on a Xubuntu 14.04 setting as lts.conf: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7657792/
10:45
And as ltsp-build-client.conf: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7657783/
10:45
So I've set "ubuntu-desktop". And why when I login on FAT client it throw: "Xsession: unable to launch "startxfce4" X session --- "startxfce4" not found; falling back to defat session.
10:45
Otherway, before, I've tried to specify "xubuntu-desktop", having the same exception.
10:45
When i press "OK", I see an ubuntu-desktop like environment but without any Unity toolbar: Only window manager.
10:45
Ideas?
10:46
Probably I have to delete the home of the client in use...
10:46
Uhm.
10:51
I'm a bit confused :)
10:53
<work_alkisg>
valeriobozzolan: what do you want, ubuntu or xubuntu?
10:53
<valeriobozzolan>
Xubuntu, but whatever works is good :)
10:53
<work_alkisg>
Then why did you put FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOP="ubuntu-desktop"?
10:53
<valeriobozzolan>
Because xubuntu-desktop in the documentation was not tested :)
10:54
And so I want to be sure that defaults work :)
10:54
<work_alkisg>
I don't think ubuntu-desktop was tested in 14.04...
10:54
Did you read about ltsp-pnp?
10:54
!ltsp-pnp
10:54
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
10:55
<valeriobozzolan>
ltsp: Yes in fact thank you very much i'm just reading :)
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13:29
<Ashlyn>
I have just created ubuntu 14.04 ltsp. Im wanting to push out to thin clients which works but theres a lot of lag. any ideas as to why this may be happening
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13:41
<championofcyrodi>
lag with the apps?
13:41
Ashlyn: lag with the apps?
13:42
<Ashlyn>
Yeah
13:42
<championofcyrodi>
Ashlyn: are you familiar with X11 forwarding?
13:42
<Ashlyn>
no i'm not
13:43
<championofcyrodi>
Ashlyn: okay, your applications are actually running on the LTSP server. (Not the thin client)
13:43
Ashlyn: So all of the graphics information is being sent through the network.
13:43
Ashlyn: is your network 1Gbps?
13:43
<Ashlyn>
okay. yeah
13:44
<championofcyrodi>
You have a couple of options...
13:44
<Ashlyn>
Well I'm not sure about the network. Right now we are using a test network not connected to our actual one
13:46
Also the image is a 32 bit and I'm running ubuntu 14.04 64 bit. Could that be part of it by chance?
13:46
<championofcyrodi>
no that should be fine...
13:46
You could run thick clients, in which all the applications run on the client itself, (instead of the server)
13:46
<Ashlyn>
okay. How does that work?
13:48
<championofcyrodi>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
13:48
it's similar to how you did ltsp-build-client, except you'll specify the client to be a 'fat client'
13:49
Are your clients good pc's?
13:49
Aka: will they run ubuntu 14.04 on their own well?
13:49
<Ashlyn>
thanks. Any other options? we are trying this because we are a school and instead of replacing hard drives when a computer dies we want to be able to just take the hard drive out and push an image out.
13:49
Yeah we've tried on older and newer pc's
13:49
<championofcyrodi>
yes, the thick clients will work without hard drives.
13:50
But they require more RAM/CPU then the thin clients.
13:50
<Ashlyn>
okay. thank you!!
13:50
<championofcyrodi>
you could also try running apps locally on the thin client...
13:50
there is a command ltsp-localapp, but you have to install the applications you want on the client image.
13:51
so for example, on older thin clients, I'll chroot /opt/ltsp/i386, then sudo apt-get install firefox.
13:51
<Ashlyn>
okay. so I have Office on the image thatss being pushed out
13:51
<championofcyrodi>
then on the client, I'll ltsp-localapp firefoox
13:51
so that firefox is running on the client instead of the ltsp server
13:51
<Ashlyn>
ohhhhh okay. that makes sense
13:52
I'll try both of those options!
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13:52
<championofcyrodi>
if you have good hardware in the clients, the thick client will work best
13:52
I'm using the Intel NUC which has core i3 w/ 16GB RAM
13:53
they are about $400 each
13:53
but they have some slightly cheaper ones as well
13:53
you can easily get by with 8GB RAM
13:54
<Ashlyn>
Okay I will definitely relay this information to my boss and see what he thinks
13:54
<championofcyrodi>
also, sometimes when you disconnect a client without proper shutdown/log out, the 'nbd-server' will stop serving images to clients on boot. (timeout)
13:54
so you will have to log into the ltsp server and issue "sudo service nbd-server reboot"
13:54
then try the client PXE boot again
13:55
<Ashlyn>
ohhh. That's what I've been having to do.
13:55
I often ge time-out and have to restart the nbd server
13:55
<championofcyrodi>
yea, make sure to properly shutdown/log out with the NUC. I'm guessing the NBD server doesnt close out the connection properly if you just disconnect the client
13:55
s/nuc/client
13:55
<Ashlyn>
Okay. Thank you for that!
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13:56
<championofcyrodi>
LTSP takes some getting used to and tweaking, but is a very good solution
13:56
<Ashlyn>
Yeah we really think it'll be good for the school if we can just get that lagging gone.
13:56
<championofcyrodi>
I would give yourself about 3-4 weeks to test out all the issues before trying to roll out to students
13:57
<Ashlyn>
Yeah. I've been working on it for 3 weeks already and JUST got it working to this point. Now we have to work out the small issues
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13:58
<championofcyrodi>
also, the /home folders will be on the LTSP server, so you'll want to look at making sure you have enough disk space there. There is a way to get the clients to read the image from LTSP while mounting /home on a totally different server, but I havent gotten that far yet
13:58
gotta get back to work, good luck!
13:58
<cyberorg>
Ashlyn, check out http://cyberorg.co.in/myscool/ its built on openSUSE with gnome-classic and mate desktop options
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13:59
<Ashlyn>
Oh okay. Do you know anything about rolling out multiple images? We want to eventually have an image for each dorm and computer labs. mainly for specific printers
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13:59
<cyberorg>
http://download.opensuse-education.org/~cyberorg/openSUSE-Edu-li-f-e-gnome-classic.x86_64-13.1.1.iso
13:59
Ashlyn, ^^ is gnome 3.12 test image
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14:00
<Ashlyn>
thanks! What will that do? I'm still new to all this.. lol
14:00
<cyberorg>
Ashlyn, you can boot up that iso in a VM, set up ltsp and test the clients
14:01
<Ashlyn>
Will that help with the lag?
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14:01
<cyberorg>
what is the hardware on the client?
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14:02
<Ashlyn>
I'm not sure because we've tried a few different ones.
14:02
<cyberorg>
oh you haven't got the clients yet?
14:03
<Ashlyn>
right now we are just testing on like i5's
14:03
<cyberorg>
it shouldn't have any lag, i5s should be real quick
14:04
<Ashlyn>
yeah that's what we thought.
14:04
but it does.
14:04
<championofcyrodi>
if it's a thin client, it's probably your server/network combo.
14:04
<cyberorg>
anyway, you can boot up that iso, follow this howto to get ltsp running https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:LTSP_quick_start_12.2_Edu
14:04
check if there is similar lag
14:04
<championofcyrodi>
try building a thick client and all your lag will go away
14:05
<cyberorg>
with clients with more than 1G fatclient is better option
14:05
<Ashlyn>
okay. thanks guys
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15:29
<muppis>
This is summer in Finland: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqC7WO7vEkE
15:32
<joe_sizlack>
haha
15:32
that's an interesting instrument he's got there
15:34
<alkisg>
Interesting outfit too :D
15:40
<muppis>
South-west part of Finland was about only place where it didn't snow today. :D
15:42
<elias_a>
o/
15:42
I live here :D
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15:43
<muppis>
elias_a, so do I.
15:43
<elias_a>
The guy on the video is quite known in Finland.
15:44
He has made hundreds of videos with the same attitude. :)
15:51
<joe_sizlack>
anyone have any experience getting the proprietary nvidia drivers/xorg to be dynamically used from the lts.conf?
15:51
I'm assuming I can get it done with X_OPTION_
15:57
<alkisg>
joe_sizlack: I think vmlintu has initramfs+init-ltsp.d code for that
15:57
It can't be done with plain X_OPTION as it diverts the *gl.so libraries
15:58
<joe_sizlack>
ah
15:58
<mmetzger>
any suggestions for enabling screen lock on Ubuntu 14.04 Fat clients?
15:59
<joe_sizlack>
you use xscreensaver
15:59
<alkisg>
Or remoteapps
15:59
<joe_sizlack>
add the .xscreensavor file to their home with read only perms so they can't disable it
16:01
<mmetzger>
Does xscreensaver know to authenticate against the server?
16:01
<joe_sizlack>
yea
16:02
they have to log back in with whatever method they used to authenticate initially
16:02
ldap in my case
16:02
<mmetzger>
Ok, will try again - screwed something up yesterday then
16:02
<joe_sizlack>
you have to adjust pam a bit though actually
16:02
now that I think about it
16:02
one sec, let me take a look at what I changed
16:02
<||cw>
xscreensaver just uses whatever the local auth is
16:05
<joe_sizlack>
$CHROOT/etc/pam.d/xscreensaver points to common-auth and common-account
16:06
I think I only had to change stuff because my ldap setup is using stupidly setup uid's
16:06
so I think you're fine with xscreensaver out of the box
16:06
<mmetzger>
Ok - thanks all - will try again.
16:06
<joe_sizlack>
np
16:07
alkisg, that code still isn't commited I assume?
16:07
<alkisg>
joe_sizlack: what code?
16:09
<joe_sizlack>
for the nvidia prop. drivers
16:10
I think I misunderstood though. vmlintu is another project?
16:10
<alkisg>
vmlintu is a Finnish user that maintains a large customized LTSP installation
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16:11
<joe_sizlack>
ah
16:11
<alkisg>
He has some code to make LTSP better in some cases, which hasn't been submitted upstream
16:12
The problem with all those binary drivers is that they can't be installed in parallel like all the other drivers, but they're using library diversions, initramfs blacklisting etc....
16:13
So an LTSP script that would allow nvidia-* to be dynamically loaded, would have to do what nvidia.postinst does now
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16:17
<joe_sizlack>
does vmlintu's code logic out the graphics chipset then somehow?
16:17
during initramfs
16:17
<alkisg>
I'm guessing yes, I haven't read or used the code
16:18
<joe_sizlack>
mmm
16:18
I'll see what he's got posted
16:18
My nvidia boxes run so much better with acceleration
16:19
<alkisg>
nouveau does have acceleration
16:19
But mostly 2D. Are you using 3D?
16:20
<joe_sizlack>
nouveau still has a ways to go I think
16:20
<alkisg>
Sure, but for some cards it does produce about the same results wrt speed
16:20
<joe_sizlack>
I haven't tried it in the last 6 months though
16:20
<alkisg>
Depends on the card
16:20* alkisg would surely love a clean way to dynamically load the binary drivers though
16:21
<joe_sizlack>
I'm not running 3d stuff, nah
16:21
flash is a killer though
16:22
just seems to run better on the binary drivers
16:22
<alkisg>
I don't think flash uses acceleration without going through hoops
16:22
Thin clients or fat?
16:22
<joe_sizlack>
fat
16:22
<alkisg>
Are the cards supported by nvidia-current?
16:23
Or are they older?
16:24
<joe_sizlack>
I believe they're still covered under the new nvidia binary
16:24
they're relatively new
16:25
I'm running the nvidia-kernel-common from the debian wheezy repos
16:25
dkms 304.88
16:25
<alkisg>
It's worth a try, sure...
16:25
bbl
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17:00
<vmlintu>
joe_sizlack: nvidia requires some packaging changes if you want to use it dynamically. The packaging code we use is here: https://github.com/opinsys/opinsys-debs/tree/master/packages/default/nvidia-graphics-drivers-304/debian
17:03
The packaging disables the code so that installation does not create the symlinks that normally override other libraries. One needs to then call update-alternatives during boottime to do that: https://github.com/opinsys/puavo-ltsp/blob/master/client/init-puavo.d/60-setup-xserver
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17:34
<john_s_>
Hello all, I am trying to figure out if there's a way to mangle the username entered through ldm to strip off the realm. Suppose a user logs in as user@realm, I'd like ldm to pass only the "user" portion of that name to ssh
17:37
<vagrantc>
not clear what you mean here...
17:38
john_s_: ldm connects to an ssh server, so if you stripped off the server, it would fail to connect...
17:41
<john_s_>
vagrantc: Thanks, I wish I could describe this a little better. Users who login currently simply as "user" will get on. Users who logon as user@realm will not, so it's not a matter of needing the realm to contact the ssh server
17:41
it more a matter of needing to remove the realm so that ssh only process the "user" portion of the id
17:50
<joe_sizlack>
thanks vmlintu
17:50
much appreciated
17:53
<john_s_>
sshd recieves the username before pam starts processing stuff, so I need to intercept the name for mangling before it reaches ssh
17:53
I was hoping there was a way to do this in LDM
17:53
<||cw>
doens't ssh just pass it to pam? can pam not handle it from there?
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17:55
<john_s_>
||cw: ssh does pass it to pam, as user@realm since that user doesn't exist in /etc/passwd nor in winbind the user is rejected.
17:55
<vagrantc>
john_s_: can't the user just not enter the realm?
17:56
john_s_: i.e. where's @realm coming from?
17:57
john_s_: you'd actually have to recompile LDM for that to work
17:57
john_s_: to mangle the name entered
17:57
<john_s_>
vagrantc: yes, in fact I am sort of doing this "backward" we have a mixed environment of chromebooks, win7 clients, and ltsp TC's the goal is that all uses log on with user@realm, this is supported by chromebooks (enforced in fact), and win7
17:57
<mmetzger>
What about adding a pam filter option?
17:58
<||cw>
or make winbind accept it?
17:59
<john_s_>
mmetzger: it seems like I need to get to the name before ssh gets to the name
18:00
<||cw>
john_s_: if they want users to login with user@realm that generally means they will be adding more realms. you'll need make pam and/or winbind honor it.
18:00
<john_s_>
||cw: winbind doesn't accept names in that format as far as I can tell, it's looking for the name in the domain\user format. According to folks on the samba list this isn't possible
18:01
e.g. winbind doesn't user the UPN (user principal name) user@realm to authenticate
18:03
There is an alternative to winbind called SSSD, which I haven't used that may allow the user@realm convention to be followed
18:03
<vagrantc>
certainly worth looking into
18:04
<john_s_>
vagrantc: yes, I think you're right. Is your take on it that some major hacking on ldm would be necessary to achieve the name mangling?
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18:08
<vagrantc>
john_s_: i think it would require editing the C code, rather than just hooking into the shell scripts
18:08
john_s_: so it would require rebuilding ldm ... though i'm not 100% positive
18:08* vagrantc looks deeper
18:09
<joe_sizlack>
https://github.com/devstructure/blueprint
18:10
this just blew my mind
18:11
it's gonna make documenting my largely undocumented ltsp setup much nicer
18:14
<vagrantc>
joe_sizlack: that does look pretty cool
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18:16
<vagrantc>
john_s_: ok, i think you could write a fork of the ssh plugin that mangles the name, and install that without recompiling ldm.
18:19
john_s_: still requires C coding... and I'm not sure anyone's acutally written an out-of-tree plugin for ldm before ... it'd e interesting to see if it worked
18:24
<john_s_>
vagrantc: neat, where would the documentation for ldm plugins exist, I am not much of a coder, but perhaps I can cajole someone into it
18:24
<vmlintu>
joe_sizlack: the nvidia packaging is a bit tricky, but let me know if you need help
18:24
joe_sizlack: there are also patched packages here: http://archive.opinsys.fi/git-master/pool/quantal/restricted/n/nvidia-graphics-drivers-304/
18:25
<elias_a>
vmlintu: Good evening!
18:26
<vmlintu>
elias_a: good evening! And happy autumn ;)
18:26
<vagrantc>
john_s_: you would be writing it!
18:27
<joe_sizlack>
thanks vmlintu. I appreciate the assist
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18:30
<john_s_>
vagrantc: heh, yes, I was wondering where the debian source for the ssh plugin to ldm live? I guess just pull the ltsp-server sources and grep for ssh and plugin?
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18:35
<vagrantc>
john_s_: it's in ldm
18:36
john_s_: apt-get source ldm # upstream is https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk
18:39
john_s_: src/ssh/plugins/
18:41
<john_s_>
vagrantc: thanks!
18:41
<vmlintu>
elias_a: do you have experiences about BYOD policies in schools?
18:42
or BYOT
18:48
<elias_a>
vmlintu: Nope. I know they are doing stuff here and there but AFAIK it is always a mess.
18:49
vmlintu: On the other hand, everything is a mess in my standards :)
18:53
<vmlintu>
elias_a: Sounds familiar.. but what could ever go wrong.. ;)
18:55
Trying to figure out governmental and local policies just doesn't mix too well with kernel coding, it seems to me..
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19:11
<elias_a>
vmlintu: nuff said... :P
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