IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 3 June 2009   (all times are UTC)

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08:06
<matttttt>
is there a way to print to a local printer on a thin client that doesn't require jetpipe/static ip assignment to the tc?
08:07
i've presented this to our network guys as a requirement, but they are throwing a fit about giving the tc's statics
08:07
just want to make sure i'm not missing another option before i tell them it's the only way :)
08:07
<alkisg>
I think that you don't need a static IP, a dns name (or mac address) in lts.conf works fine
08:08
<matttttt>
?
08:08
i mean printing from an app running on the ltsp server to a local usb printer on the tc
08:08
if my ip changes, my dns is going to change
08:11
<alkisg>
So the problem is that you don't want to put the mac address/ip of the client in dhcpd.conf? You could make the client use nsupdate, but that looks like more trouble...
08:12
<ogra>
dhcpd.conf is the better option
08:12
maintaining stuff in two different places doesnt really improve :)
08:14
<matttttt>
well the problem is my task is deploy an ltsp infrastructure, this place has an existing dhcp server, which the network guys maintain and for some weird reason are whining about dishing out statics to the tcs, doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
08:15
just want to make sure jetdirect via cups/lprng/etc -> jetpipe on tc is the only way to do local printing
08:15
before i tell them tough, that's your only option
08:16
<ogra>
yes, TCs with printer should get a static IP
08:16
i assume not all your TCs have printers attached so it will only be a subset
08:18
<matttttt>
most of the 600+ will
08:18
<ogra>
ugh, why ? what a waste
08:18
<cyberorg>
matttttt, you can get away with very long lease time
08:19
<ogra>
well, might get tricky with 600 clients on a single dhcpd
08:19
<cyberorg>
yeah true :)
08:20
<matttttt>
my boss is amazed that printing in linux isn't so automagical like it is in windows
08:21
<cyberorg>
matttttt, you'd need a cluster of about 15 servers to run 600 clients, can't do that without ldap and pretty good SAN for /home
08:21
<ogra>
it is
08:21
at least in ubuntu if you dont use thin clients :P
08:21
<matttttt>
heh, yeah but we're talking tc printing
08:22
<ogra>
you might also want stgraber's patch to cups with 600 TCs that all have printers attached
08:22
<matttttt>
cyberorg, we've got 2 quad cpu boxes w/ like 20+g of ram for now, we won't be getting near that number for a while, this will be a multi phase project.
08:22
<ogra>
he has a way to limit the displayed printers in the printing applet
08:22
<matttttt>
ah, yeah sounds like that'd be handy.
08:22
i wasn't thinking about how cups/lprng would like that
08:22
<ogra>
listing all 600 there will take minutes i bet
08:23
but i would really only go with one printer per room
08:23
and configure all clients in that room to use this one
08:24
its a massive waste of energy, resources and money to attach one to every client
08:24
<cyberorg>
i am sure it would be interesting :P
08:24
<matttttt>
you're preaching to the choir
08:24
<cyberorg>
good idea, donate 550 printers, that way your company will win a lot of karma points and you'd save on lot of admin work
08:24
<matttttt>
we're a state agency
08:25
<ogra>
and you didnt discover the paperless office yet ? :)
08:25
<matttttt>
i just got here 2 weeks ago, can't change the world overnight :)
08:26* ogra even works in an officeless office ;)
08:26
<matttttt>
i did to at my previous job, i miss it already :)
08:26
this is my first go-round working for the gubmint
08:26
they do things amazingly ass backwards
08:26
<ogra>
heh, yeah
08:27
thats normal
08:27
anyway, stgraber has a lot of experience with big setups, he can surely give you some pointers
08:28
<matttttt>
cool
08:28
<ogra>
600 is nothing for him ;)
08:28
they run the really huge ubuntu ltsp setups
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08:29
<ogra>
(which is why he developed ltsp-cluster)
08:29* stgraber is migrating 5k thin clients to Jaunty at the moment ;)
08:30
<matttttt>
if this goes well, they'd like to 2x or 3x that number
08:30
they really like the idea of telling ms to shove it
08:31
stgraber: whoa :)
08:32
<cyberorg>
stgraber, how many clients per server?
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08:37
<matttttt>
do you use ssh -X for all of those? nomad?
08:37* ogra guesses LDM_DIRECTX
08:40
<matttttt>
does nxagent w/ ssh -X get you anything? I've been meaning to fire up xscreensaver or something and look at it vs. ldm_directx
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09:02
<stgraber>
cyberorg: 100 usually
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09:04
<tinjaw>
Hello. Problem with Ubuntu-LTSP.
09:04
I *think* it has to do with inetd vs xinetd.
09:05
<ogra>
ubuntu uses openbds-inetd
09:05
xinetd isnt supported out of the box, you have to configure it yourself
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09:13
<ogra>
Gadi, do you remember the option to make a specific NIC eth0 for ipconfig from the top of your head ?
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09:15
<ogra>
or alkisg ^^^
09:15
<alkisg>
ogra, I didn't understand the question
09:15
<ogra>
there is a kernel option you can set if you have two NICs
09:15
<alkisg>
PXELINUX passes the boot interface with IPAPPEND 2
09:15
And I think a script is required to make ipconfig use this interface
09:16
<ogra>
no, there was an option you or Gadi used to switch order
09:16
<alkisg>
I.e. ipconfig eth1 , if that's the interface that was passed
09:17
I saw a script for that in the mailing list a while ago. I don't think anyone had a method to switch the interface names (other than messing with persisten-net-rules generator)
09:17
<ogra>
right, but there was an option to change that through the kernel commandline
09:17
<alkisg>
Ah, never heard of that one
09:17
But ipconfig is to be deprecated in 9.10, why care about this?
09:18
<ogra>
huh ?
09:18
<alkisg>
stgraber will use udhcpc by default
09:18
...and that's a really nice thing :)
09:18
<ogra>
udhcpc being added doesnt mean ipconfig is deprecated :)
09:18
and its far from being approved
09:18
<alkisg>
Well, if udhcpc is used by default, who's gonna use ipconfig?
09:19
(I don't mean deprecated officially in klibc...)
09:19
<ogra>
there is a main inclusion report fgor udhcpc, thats all
09:19
<alkisg>
Argh and I was happy about that :(
09:19
I was even starting to send some patches so that it supports IPAPPEND => multiple interfaces
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09:23
<alkisg>
ogra, you can pass the ethernet name as a kernel parameter with ipopts, were you looking for that? IPOPTS=:::::eth0
09:23
<ogra>
yeah !
09:23
<alkisg>
OK, that's what IPAPPEND does
09:29
<stgraber>
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udhcp/+bug/383177
09:29
btw
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09:37
<tinjaw>
ogra: I believe LTSP require some configuration of inetd? If so, I can use itox. However, I don't know what LTSP requires.
09:38
<Lumiere>
tinjaw: it needs tftpd
09:40
<ogra>
ubuntu ltsp uses inetd for nearly everything
09:40
<pmatulis>
for non-pxe clients, is the file nbi.img the bootstrap program?
09:40
<ogra>
right
09:40
its the etherboot image
09:40
<tinjaw>
I have tftpd running
09:41
<ogra>
you shouldnt
09:41
it should be started by inetd
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09:41
<ogra>
as all other services in ubuntu ltsp
09:41
<pmatulis>
for pxe i can specify the boot parameters in the file pxelinux.cfg/default, what of non-pxe clients?
09:41
<tinjaw>
I am referencing http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5411285&postcount=16
09:42
<ogra>
pmatulis, you need to do that in the BOOTOPTIONS variable in the chroot, its a but complicated
09:42
*bit
09:42
<tinjaw>
I don't want to uninstall xinetd and install inetd. There is no reason too.
09:42
<pmatulis>
ogra: thanks
09:42
<ogra>
well, then you are on your own
09:42
<tinjaw>
if there is something that LTSP requires in inetd, then it can be handled by xinetd
09:43
<ogra>
right, feel free to adjust the configs yourself
09:43
but note you need to do that with every change
09:43
and on every upgrade
09:43
the scripts and tools all use inetd.conf
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09:43
<ogra>
and update it
09:44
<tinjaw>
is it updating inet.conf?
09:44
if so, then itox should work fine
09:44
<ogra>
xinetd has licensing issues and is thus not shipped in ubuntu ... if you have patches for the tools and scripts to use xinetd, feel free to send them
09:44* ogra has no idea what itox
09:44
<ogra>
is
09:45
<tinjaw>
itox will convert inetd.conf to xinetd.cong
09:45
err, conf
09:45
<ogra>
aha
09:45
well, good luck is all i can say
09:46
<tinjaw>
I don't have an inetd.conf
09:46
<cyberorg>
tinjaw, why would you want to use xinetd if inetd is fully working and supported way?
09:46
<tinjaw>
so I suspect when I installed LTSP it errored out.
09:46
Because other things I do require xinetd
09:46
and xinetd is a super-set of inetd
09:46
<alkisg>
pmatulis: what do you mean non-pxe clients? If you want to boot from hd, cd, or floppy, gpxe is pxe-compliant
09:46
<ogra>
and has licensing issues
09:47
alkisg, etherboot with EPROM ;)
09:47
<tinjaw>
ogra: that may be a problem for you and LTSP, but it isn't for everybody.
09:47
license elitism doesn't help anybody.
09:47
<ogra>
tinjaw, its the reason why we dont have any support for it
09:47
<tinjaw>
I understand
09:47
and that is why I am asking for the info I need to do what I need to do
09:47
and that info is...
09:48
<ogra>
we dont ship it on the CD ltsp supporrts whats on the CD ... if someone sends patches to make it work they wont be refused
09:48
<tinjaw>
does LTSP interact with inetd only via inetd.conf configuration issues or does it interact in realtime directly?
09:48
<ogra>
the info is, you are on your own until someone adds support for xientd to the scripts
09:49
<tinjaw>
ogra: please don't turn this inquiry into a religious war.
09:49
<ogra>
??
09:49
<tinjaw>
I heard you loud and clear 1) it is a licensing issue 2) it is open source so submit a patch
09:49
got it
09:49
<ogra>
tinjaw, all i'm saying is there is *no support for inetd* in any of the scripts
09:50
<tinjaw>
I assume you meant to say xinetd
09:50
<ogra>
ltsp uses tftp, various nbd services and ldm from inetd
09:50
s/ldm/ldminfo/
09:50
yes i did
09:51
<tinjaw>
I have tftpd-hda running
09:51
I have nbd services running
09:51
I have ldm running
09:51
<ogra>
that wont help
09:51
nbdrootd and nbdswapd cant run without inetd
09:52
neither can ldminfod
09:52
<pmatulis>
alkisg: i see the files pxelinux.0 and nbi.img on my system, one is for pxe clients and i wanted to know what the other is for
09:52
<ogra>
ltsp-update-image and ltsp-update-kernels wont work with xinetd
09:53
both use the update-inetd command which doesnt work with xinetd
09:53
<alkisg>
pmatulis: ok, I thought you were looking to pass kernel parameters, and sometimes you can use pxelinux.0 even with etherboot clients (=easier for parameter passing)
09:53
<pmatulis>
alkisg: well that *was* my second question
09:53
<ogra>
pmatulis, nbi.img gets the bootoptions hardcoded when you roll it, you cant easily pass kernel params dynamically
09:54
<tinjaw>
ok, thanks for the info. I will have to run LTSP on a different box.
09:54
<ogra>
tinjaw, well, patches are welcome :)
09:54
its all shellscript, not to hard to hack
09:55
<tinjaw>
It's a matter of not having time, currently. It is on my someday/maybe list.
09:55
Thank you.
09:56
<alkisg>
Woah, dnsmasq request for main: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionDnsMasq :)
09:56
<tinjaw>
That makes me think of something. As I need to remove LTSP from a box.
09:56
<ogra>
shudder
09:56
<tinjaw>
And LTSP downloaded a bunch of files.
09:57
<ogra>
sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp
09:57
sudo rm -rf /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp (if it exists)
09:57
<tinjaw>
it does
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10:00
<tinjaw>
thank you. I will set up a virtual server to host LTSP. It will be dedicated to that function, so there will be no inetd/xinetd issue .
10:00
<ogra>
that sounds good
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10:53
<CAN-o-SPAM>
join #dlw
10:53
whoops, sorry.
11:02
<Gadi>
someone's passing notes in class
11:02
:)
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11:17
<johnny>
gentlemen
11:18
<ogra>
ladies ?
11:18
<vagrantc>
punks!
11:20
<johnny>
ogra, it's a meme thing..
11:21* vagrantc breaks meme's legs
11:21* johnny needs a new laptop
11:21
<johnny>
ogra btw.. my fan is just as loud ...
11:21
<ogra>
get ARM !
11:21
<johnny>
on fedora
11:22
<sbalneav>
Morning all
11:22
<johnny>
whenever the cpu spikes.. for any reason, for longer than a minute (or thereabouts)
11:22* ogra just got the first pegatron laptop last week ... still no case but everything else :)
11:22
<johnny>
ogra, yeah.. but i still need something that will let me play the occasional game
11:22
<ogra>
solitaire works
11:23
<johnny>
i'd like a beefy laptop.. and an arm netbook
11:23
<ogra>
and nethack
11:23
<johnny>
hehe
11:23
<ogra>
what else do you need
11:24
<vagrantc>
vim
11:24
<ogra>
for gaming ?
11:25
<johnny>
no.. that's emacs..
11:25
hehe
11:25
<ogra>
e3macs is for windows :P
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11:26* vagrantc wonders why patches.ubuntu.com diff'ed the new ldm against the version from testing rather than unstable
11:27
<johnny>
ok.. sorry
11:27
for the rejoining
11:27
i was testing the nickserv access thing
11:27
the help file seems to lie about auto identify
11:28* vagrantc is happy to see a much smaller diff with ldm
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11:30
<ogra>
vagrantc, is there any diff left now ?
11:30
i thought ripping out the themes would have gotten rid of any diffs
11:30
<vagrantc>
ogra: yeah, some differences in depends/recommends, not all the same debian/patches/* ... but it's getting very small.
11:31
<bieb>
using Ubuntu 9.04 for the server.. it put the lts.conf file in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ instead of /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 so I have to run ltsp-update-image if I make changes to lts.conf correct???
11:31
<johnny>
bieb, no..
11:31
<ogra>
right
11:31
<johnny>
oh
11:31* vagrantc dances the small ldm diff dance
11:31
<ogra>
but you should really use /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
11:31
<johnny>
if you put it there, then yes.. it doesn't put one my default in /var/lib/tftpboot
11:31* ogra joins dancing
11:31
<johnny>
by*
11:31
<bieb>
ogra: the ubuntu install put it in /opt by default
11:32
<johnny>
bieb, that's normal
11:32
bieb, that one is empty
11:32
<vagrantc>
it's a placeholder
11:32
<ogra>
right, so it can get replaced during boot by whatever comes from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
11:32
<bieb>
which one is empty?
11:33
<johnny>
ogra, i thought you ubuntu guys were going to put a default
11:33
bieb, the one in /opt/ltsp/i386..
11:33
it's just comments
11:33
you don't have to use it..
11:33
but it should be there
11:33
the comments tell you to use the one in /var/lib
11:33
<ogra>
johnny, us ubuntu guys is mainly stgraber :P
11:33
<bieb>
ok.. so dont make any changes to lts.conf?
11:33
<johnny>
bieb, depends on if you have problems with your tftp server
11:33
<bieb>
oh ok
11:33
<johnny>
if you don't, then use the one in /var/lib
11:34
stgraber, were you going to steal fedora's default lts.conf and put it in /var/lib/tftpboot?
11:34
<bieb>
there isnt one in var/lib
11:34
<johnny>
bieb, i know.. cuz the ubuntu guys havent' done that
11:34
you put one there yourself
11:34
<ogra>
just create it
11:35
<bieb>
ok.. so copy the /opt one to /var/lib?
11:35
<johnny>
no..
11:35
just do a new one
11:35
<bieb>
ok
11:35
<johnny>
and put [default] at the beginning before any statements
11:35
<bieb>
ok
11:35
then all I need is a section for each "Client"?
11:36
<vagrantc>
if you need it at all... try without it first
11:36
<johnny>
i try not to use them
11:36
<bieb>
ok.. so just a lts.conf file with [Default] and thats it?
11:36
<johnny>
you don't need that
11:36
if you don't need any settings set
11:37
ignore it until you need it
11:37
<bieb>
ohhh ok.. so all I need is the lts.conf file empty in var/lib?
11:37
<johnny>
you don't even need that
11:37
<ogra>
lts.conf is only for overriding defaults or solving problems
11:37
<johnny>
you don't need one at all
11:37
unless you do :)
11:37
<bieb>
ok.. I will leave it as is then
11:37
<johnny>
i have a few settings
11:37
like guestlong
11:38
guestlogin
11:38
that's it
11:38
<bieb>
ok.. what tells the client to get its info from the LTSP server? I am going to be comandeering a WindowsXP PC for a test setup
11:38
<johnny>
the network boot
11:38
dhcp + tftp
11:41
<bieb>
johnny: plug a switch into the 192.168 eth port on the server.. then plug client into same switch.. all should work from there?
11:41
<johnny>
set the machine to net boot..
11:41
<bieb>
ok
11:42
seems alot easier than the way I was reading it
11:43
<johnny>
it depends on whether you have existing dhcp servers
11:43
that always complicates the setup
11:43
if you don't.. it's just install ltsp-server-standalone, set machine to netboot, everything works :)
11:44
<bieb>
for the test it will be segregated off the main servers and network.. the ltsp server will be connected to it for internet access, but nothing else
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12:08
<pmatulis>
how do i suppress a pop-up window from appearing on my thin clients when external media is inserted on the server-side?
12:09
<johnny>
but it doesn't happen
12:09
when users put them in?
12:09
on other computers?
12:09
if not.. i'd like to know the answer too :)
12:14
<pmatulis>
not sure about user actions, just the server for now. i imaging it involves monkeying around with gconf-editor
12:14
*imagine
12:14
<stgraber>
alkisg: ping
12:15
<johnny>
no.. i don't think it does
12:15
i don't know if this problem is solvable pmatulis
12:15
i had the same problem since feisty
12:15
feisty, gutsy, hardy, intrepid, jaunty..
12:15
oh wait.. i haven't installed jaunty yet :)
12:16
on that machine
12:16
on the new ltsp machine i have
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12:17
<alkisg>
stgraber: pong
12:17
<stgraber>
alkisg: you're using iTalc with LTSP right ?
12:17
<alkisg>
Yes, I think it has some glitches in jaunty
12:17
<johnny>
we're not allowed to use italc .. so we're sticking with tcm
12:17
<stgraber>
alkisg: I have a package to test in my PPA, would you be able to do that ?
12:18
<johnny>
the functionality is too orwellian for our little shop to accept
12:18
<stgraber>
alkisg: it should fix cases where ica half-crashes on the clients
12:18
<alkisg>
sure
12:18
<ogra>
pmatulis, its either a nautilus gconf setting or gnome-volume-manager ...
12:18
<johnny>
ogra, what is this setting called..?
12:19
i never got an answer when i mentioned this problem :)
12:19
<ogra>
/apps/nautilus/preferences/media_automount
12:19
/apps/nautilus/preferences/media_automount_open
12:19
<stgraber>
alkisg: the test would basically be to check that it still work at least as well as it used to ;)
12:19
<ogra>
thats for general media
12:19
<alkisg>
stgraber: moment, phone...
12:20
<ogra>
for things like ipod, cameras etc look at the gconf settings for gnome-volume-manager
12:22
<pmatulis>
ogra: thanks, will investigate
12:22
<ogra>
you likely want that systemwide ... so put a gconf file in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/
12:23
<johnny>
won't that affect client automounts?
12:23
<ogra>
no
12:23
client side is handled with ltspfs
12:28
<johnny>
not now i guess
12:28
but when dbus stuff is added? won't this affect that?
12:29
<ogra>
no
12:29
client side will still fire udev rules
12:29
it might affect the popping up nautilus window though
12:33
<alkisg>
stgraber: I won't be able to test it very well for crash-tests, because the school year is over here and I don't have any students left :) But I'll do some testing in the lab by myself.
12:33
stgraber: But, I noticed some problems with the launchers, i.e. some clients being autodetected twice, and also the "autodetected computers" classroom still showing after selecting "don't show this classroom" and restarting italc...
12:39
<stgraber>
sbalneav: hey, what about merging that ldm fix ? ;)
12:40
<alkisg>
*that* I'd be able to test since it happens with a 80% probability :)
12:46spectra has joined #ltsp
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12:50
<maginot>
good afternoon to all
12:50
=)
12:51
so ... as usual, one question ;) Is there a way to send a reboot request from the server to the client?
12:53
<johnny>
thin client manager or italc can do it
12:53
iirc
12:53
or you could enable ssh on the machines and ssh to em and reboot
12:54
<bieb>
any good recommendations for clients? I have looked at disklessworkstations.com
12:57
<maginot>
johnny, well, italc I know I need to configure and all that stuff, the tests I made with italc it was a litle unstable... thin client manager I think I used it already, but for what I remember it wasnt cli, arent it ?
12:58
<johnny>
no it isn't
12:58
if you want cli, then you should enable ssh on the clients and setup keys
12:58
until tcm gains a dbus interface
12:58
unless it already does and i haven't noticed
12:58
once it does you can just dbus-send
12:59
<maginot>
johnny, Hmm
12:59
johnny, well, I will sticky to ssh for know
13:00
<johnny>
but.. you will have to force the option to not check host keys, since they change every reboot
13:00
<maginot>
good point.
13:01
thanks johnny
13:01
<johnny>
welcome
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13:24
<maginot>
have anyone doing something like using a usb token or an smartcard for thinclients login ??
13:28
<johnny>
not me..
13:28
i don't think ldm can support that yet
13:28
maginot, theoretically anything supported by ssh will work tho
13:28
with little effort
13:28jammcq has joined #ltsp
13:29
<jammcq>
hello friends
13:29
<maginot>
Hmmm
13:29
<johnny>
my man jam
13:29
hello jammcq
13:30
<jammcq>
hey johnny
13:30
<maginot>
today I was looking for security improvements and thought that Smartcards or usbtokens are very interesting, and liked the idea, inicialy for our firewalls and not ltsp servers
13:34bobby_C has joined #ltsp
13:35
<Lumiere>
jammcq: pong
13:38
<alkisg>
Yeah usb sticks would be handy: instead of username/password, each student plugs in a usb stick and logs on automatically :) No more need for ltsp-update-sshkeys!
13:40
<Gadi>
per session Xauthority directories?
13:41
stgraber: ^^
13:41
<stgraber>
Gadi: yeah
13:41
<Gadi>
how come?
13:41
<stgraber>
Gadi: basically there was an issue when the user can't lock Xauthority
13:42
<Gadi>
ah
13:42
so the directories have user privs?
13:42
<stgraber>
locking is done by creating a <filename>- file but the user (for localapps) isn't allowed to create a file in /var/run/
13:42
<johnny>
alkisg, you will still need ltsp-update-sshkeys.. not sure how this fixes that problem
13:42
you still need to know the proper hostkey
13:42
<stgraber>
so that instead creates a directory which is then owned by the user
13:42
<Gadi>
should we not then move it to /tmp?
13:43
user-writable dirs in /var/run seems evil
13:43
<stgraber>
sbalneav proposed it but I tend to prefer keeping it in /var/run in case we once implement multiple-ldm
13:43
if it was in ldm anyone could lock anyone's Xauthority
13:44
<Gadi>
you mean if it were in tmp
13:44
<stgraber>
yeah, sorry
13:44
<alkisg>
johnny: the ssh keys are in the chroot, and transfered over the network with either nfs or nbd, and that's insecure, with usb sticks you'd have one key for each user, they wouldn't be transfered over the network. Would need some reworking, but I think it could be done.
13:44* Gadi nods
13:45
<Gadi>
alkisg: SSH_OPTS ;)
13:45
<alkisg>
Amen :)
13:46
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok, need some suggestions
13:47
having problems using ldap authentication with a client login
13:47
here's the logs I think matter: http://pastebin.com/m1ed300d7
13:49
<sbalneav>
_UsUrPeR_: What's your ldap.conf file look lik?
13:49
<_UsUrPeR_>
when I try loging in, it goes to a black screen :/
13:50
<sbalneav>
can you log in via a text ssh?
13:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
sbalneav: here you go: http://pastebin.com/m38f0e41a
13:54
<sbalneav>
_UsUrPeR_: How are your users defined? in an ou=People or ou=Users?
13:55
<_UsUrPeR_>
ou=users
13:56
<sbalneav>
Is this the first time you've set this up?
13:56
<_UsUrPeR_>
yes
13:56
see something wrong?
13:58
<bieb>
johnny: you still here?
13:59
<_UsUrPeR_>
sbalneav: ldap works properly for logons with ssh, this is only a problem logging on with thin clients
14:00
<sbalneav>
Do you have libnss-ldap installed?
14:00
And for me , at least, I need to specify:
14:00
pam_filter objectclass=posixAccount
14:01
in my ldap.conf.
14:01
<_UsUrPeR_>
sbalneav: libnss-ldap is installed
14:01* _UsUrPeR_ looks for objectclass
14:02
<johnny>
bieb, have to go right now
14:02
<bieb>
johnny: ok
14:03
<sbalneav>
_UsUrPeR_: quick way to tell if nss is working is in an ssh login, to do an "ls -al".
14:03
if your ldap backed users and group id's are showing up, then that's working.
14:04
<_UsUrPeR_>
here's the results of my home dir: http://pastebin.com/m6cf94712
14:05
<sbalneav>
Well, I'd say the ldap's working then.
14:05
Can you log in if you create an account local to the machine?
14:06
i.e. something that's in /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow?
14:06
<_UsUrPeR_>
yes
14:07
<sbalneav>
Anything in .xsession-errors?
14:08
You haven't got a firewall installed on this machine by chance, do you?
14:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
sbalneav: errors here: http://pastebin.com/m46e884fe
14:09
sbalneav: no firewall. default ubuntu 9.04 install
14:10
<sbalneav>
Well, it's not *default*, LDAP isn't installed by default :)
14:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
true that :)
14:10
okok, prior to installing all this stuff I have installed...
14:10
heh
14:11
<sbalneav>
It's getting X errors, so there's some kind of problem talking to the X display.
14:11
You could try LDM_DIRECTX=True
14:13
<_UsUrPeR_>
k, trying this out
14:18
<maginot>
alkisg, well, when this became a reality you can be sure that is something we are going to implement here
14:19
<_UsUrPeR_>
sbalneav: no luck. I am able to log on as normal users, just not my LDAP users
14:23
<sbalneav>
Can you log in on the CONSOLE as an ldap user?
14:23
<_UsUrPeR_>
wh- wait
14:23
looks like I can log in with another ldap user
14:23
...
14:23* _UsUrPeR_ confused now :/
14:23
<_UsUrPeR_>
hmm
14:23
I think I may need to check out ldap further
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14:27
<bieb>
anyone here good with setting up wine on ltsp server?
14:45
<highvoltage>
is that something anyone can actually be good with?
14:45
<matttttt>
heh
14:45
<bieb>
true
14:51pmatulis has quit IRC
14:55
<sbalneav>
bieb: What would you like to know?
14:57
I run wine with ltsp here at Legal Aid.
15:00
<bieb>
ok.. I installed ubuntu 9.04 ltsp... I ran sudo apt-get wine and wine-dev.. When I try to install Office 2007 it fails
15:04
<sbalneav>
define "fail"
15:04
A little more information please.
15:05maginot has quit IRC
15:05
<bieb>
one sec.. let me get the error message
15:06
<stgraber>
sbalneav: can you merge your patch ? ;) it's the only bit I'm waiting for before tagging ldm, ltsp and ltspfs.
15:06
<sbalneav>
hokay, hold on...
15:08elisboa has quit IRC
15:08
<bieb>
sbalneav: ok.. I copied the Office 2007 install directory to my ltsp server.. I go to command line and type "wine setup.exe" there are a bunch of lines in the CLI that end -stub!, the Office install screen flashes up then is gone followed by a message that says "Setup cannot continue because a required file is either corrupted or not available. Run Setup from the original source disk or download location"
15:08elisboa has joined #ltsp
15:09
<sbalneav>
....and?
15:09elisboa has quit IRC
15:09
<sbalneav>
did you try running it off the disk? :)
15:10
stgraber: What's the bug number on this one?
15:11
I'm commiting my patch and I'll push
15:11
<bieb>
we dont get the disks.. we download from MS directly. The installer works fine on windows machines.. just installed Office2007 on 2 machines yesterday
15:13
<stgraber>
sbalneav: not sure we have a bug report for that
15:13
<sbalneav>
ok, I'll just say the "hang on logout bug"
15:13
:)
15:14
<vagrantc>
i started noticing a hang-on-logout bug with gnome recently. doesn't appear to affect lxde or icewm.
15:15cyberorg has joined #ltsp
15:15
<vagrantc>
reminds me of http://bugs.debian.org/486007
15:16
<alkisg>
sbalneav: I've reported that, let me see...
15:17
<sbalneav>
stgraber: pushedededed
15:17
1163
15:17
boyeeeeeee
15:17
<alkisg>
sbalneav, vagrantc: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/375278
15:17
<sbalneav>
yo yo yo ldm patches in dah houseeee boyeeeeeardee
15:18* sbalneav makes hand signs
15:18
<sbalneav>
Did I ever tell you guys I'm going to start a rap act?
15:18
Gonna call myself "Plain White Rapper"
15:18
:0
15:18
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: you wouldn't be the first.
15:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
sbalneav: you need a felony sheet prior to starting your rap career
15:19
<vagrantc>
how about "Mc Patches"?
15:19
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: lol
15:19
<vagrantc>
er, MC
15:19
you'd need a sidekick, though ... perhaps "DJ Diff"
15:19elisboa has joined #ltsp
15:19
<davidj>
I think "vagrantc" sounds good for a sidekick
15:19
<stgraber>
sbalneav: yeaaah, thanks
15:20
<sbalneav>
Where's Gadi with a "your mamas thin client joke" when you need him
15:21
<vagrantc>
alkisg: looks like greek to me... or is that C?
15:21
<alkisg>
vagrantc: it's C, the problem that sbalneav solved with his latest patch
15:21
<vagrantc>
ah.
15:21
<alkisg>
ldm was waiting for the wrong process sometimes
15:22
<vagrantc>
we all wait for the wrong things sometimes.
15:22
<alkisg>
So 8 out of 10 times in my lab ldm hanged at logout..
15:22
Heh :)
15:22
<jammcq>
sbalneav: hey
15:24
<sbalneav>
jammcq: ho
15:24
lets go
15:24
<jammcq>
i wanna be sedated
15:25
<sbalneav>
Caipriana's will do that :)
15:25
<jammcq>
yepper
15:25
and... I won't have to drive either :)
15:27
<sbalneav>
non, meu amigo
15:27
<jammcq>
ah, meu amigo falla um pouco de portugueuse ?
15:30
<sbalneav>
não muito
15:30
I had to google the first word
15:30
so I cheated :)
15:30
<bieb>
sbalneav: sorry about that.. got called to a meeting, to show how cool my ltsp server and client are working. now if I get Office2007 and Active Directory auth working I would ROCK!!
15:31
<sbalneav>
bieb: did you run winecfg and set up the wine type and the emulation type, etc?
15:32
<bieb>
I ran winecfg.. let me give you the settings
15:32
<sbalneav>
I have to qualify, I've never tried to run office 2007 under wine. We just use OpenOffice.
15:33
<bieb>
app settings.. Default settings... at the bottom it has Windows Version WindowsXP
15:33
what other setting would need to be changed?
15:34
<sbalneav>
Try windows 2003
15:34
<bieb>
same outcome
15:35
even the same with Vista
15:35
and 2008
15:37
<sbalneav>
Some googling indicates that office 2007 isn't "quite there yet" as far as wine goes. However, the previous version of office works fine.
15:37
might try office 200<whatever> and see if that works better
15:38
<bieb>
cool... I will try an older version
15:39
sbalneav: any experience with Active Directory authentication?
15:40
<sbalneav>
http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxlinux/ indicates it supports a bunch of versions
15:40
bieb: nope.
15:41
Active directory's (thankfully) something I've never had to administer.
15:41elisboa has quit IRC
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15:41
<bieb>
I was thinking of Codeweavers as an option. I was just trying to see if it would work with Wine.. since its free
15:41
<sbalneav>
Last version of windows I had any experience with was windows 98
15:41
I gave up windows entirely in 1999
15:42
<bieb>
nice
15:42
for codeweavers.. 1 license? or one for each client?
15:43
<sbalneav>
I beleive they our buddy Jeremy actually has a server license *specifically* geared to ltsp serevers.
15:43
<matttttt>
hey bieb, i looked at this a long time ago but never had time to check it out, it's virtualization instead of emulation, but it lets you run a program in a windows vm without it being attached to a clunky extra "desktop" window somehow
15:43
might fit the bill for you
15:43
http://www.virtualbox.org/
15:43
<sbalneav>
Jeremy White's a buddy of ours
15:44
<matttttt>
i remember seeing a buddy's mac that had something similar installed and went on a hunt to find something like it.
15:45
<sbalneav>
Virtualbox is made by sun.
15:45
a lot of people use it.
15:45
<bieb>
I have used VB before.. and VMware
15:45
<sbalneav>
but, you need a full windows license to run under it, as you actually run windows in the virtual machine.
15:45
<matttttt>
right
15:46
<bieb>
yep
15:46
<matttttt>
i've also used vmware a lot, i just always hated that vmware desktop made you run your windows program on top of a visible windows desktop instead of having it sit seamlessly on your x desktop
15:47
anyways, guess that's a lot of overhead just to run ms office :)
15:47
just use openoffice :)
15:48vvinet has quit IRC
15:48
<sbalneav>
That's the road I'd encourage.
15:49spectra has quit IRC
15:49
<bieb>
I can only fight one Open Source battle at a time... :) I am glad to be able to get LTSP looked at here.. :)
15:50
<sbalneav>
phhh, if you're going to fight, might as well go for total war :)
15:51
<bieb>
actually.. I enjoy receiving a paycheck.. :D
15:51
<sbalneav>
Think of the MONEY you'll save with OpenOffice over MS products
15:51
<bieb>
kinda makes paying the bills easier
15:51
<sbalneav>
So do I
15:52
I save Legal Aid $670,000cdn per year in licensing and hardware costs.
15:52
<bieb>
believe me.. if the ltsp gets done... I will start working on the next item to move it to Linux/OpenSource
15:52
<sbalneav>
That got me a promotion :)
15:57
<bieb>
legal aid in Hamilton? right?
16:08
<sbalneav>
Manitoba
16:08
www.legalaid.mb.ca
16:12CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
16:12
<bieb>
are you located in Winnipeg?
16:14
<sbalneav>
Sittin' here right now :)
16:14
Except when I'm at the cottage.
16:14
Then I'm 80 km north :)
16:15
<bieb>
cool
16:15
<sbalneav>
Or when I travel to Brazil. Then I'm several thousand klicks south :)
16:16
<bieb>
:)
16:23
<vagrantc>
stgraber: have you been able to login using LDM_NOMAD and xrdp?
16:24
stgraber: i was hoping to get that patch reverted if it didn't work for anyone else.
16:24
<bieb>
sbalneav: on your ltsp clients.. do you run Firefox local? or from the server?
16:26
<stgraber>
vagrantc: I never tried NOMAD
16:29
<vagrantc>
stgraber: it's kind of funny.
16:30knipwim has joined #ltsp
16:31
<sbalneav>
bieb: from the server
16:31
Headin' home
16:31
<jammcq>
drive safe
16:32
<bieb>
ok.. during my testing youtube was kinda slow
16:32
<alkisg>
bieb: try with LDM_DIRECTX=true in lts.conf
16:33
<vagrantc>
which disables most security...
16:33
<bieb>
ok.. will look at that.. not currently using lts.conf file
16:33
<alkisg>
See the docs to read about the speed vs security implications (link in the topic)
16:34
<bieb>
ok
16:35mikkel has quit IRC
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16:43
<bieb>
time to head out also.. catch everyone tomorrow
16:43bieb has left #ltsp
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16:45
<stgraber>
hmm, ldm FTBFSed on karmic
16:47pmatulis has joined #ltsp
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16:48
<stgraber>
sbalneav: around ?
16:48
sbalneav: http://paste.ubuntu.com/187691/
16:50lucascoala has joined #ltsp
16:51
<vagrantc>
looks like i may get my chance to revert the nomad patch
16:51
<stgraber>
vagrantc: yeah, go ahead, I'm pretty sure we'll have another ldm released today anyway ;)
16:56
<vagrantc>
!seen sbalneav
16:56
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 24 minutes and 32 seconds ago: <sbalneav> Headin' home
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16:59
<stgraber>
ok, we'll catch him a bit later
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19:34
<sbalneav>
stgraber: Pushed up a fix.
19:34
I developed the fix on hardy
19:35
<stgraber>
sbalneav: thanks
19:39
sshutils.o: In function `ssh_session':
19:39
/home/stgraber/code/ldm-test/src/sshutils.c:267: undefined reference to `pthread_create'
19:39
sbalneav: ^
19:39
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:39
<sbalneav>
Hm
19:40
On hardy it compiles fine.
19:40
Maybe libpthread needs to be linked against?
19:40
one sec...
19:41
<stgraber>
(I'm building on karmic so a lot of things are probably different)
19:41
<vagrantc>
alsa, building in a clean chroot can often make a big difference
19:41
<stgraber>
indeed
19:42
<sbalneav>
I have an old hardy tree
19:42
I just make my fixes
19:42
do a make
19:43
then cp ldm /opt/ltsp/i386....
19:43
:)
19:43
<stgraber>
hehe
19:45
<sbalneav>
What happens if you change the src/Makefile.am to read: AM_CPPFLAGS = $(GLIB_CFLAGS) \
19:45
argh
19:46
AM_CPPFLAGS = -pthread $(GLIB_CFLAGS) \
19:46
try that
19:49
<stgraber>
no difference
19:49
<sbalneav>
You'd need to re-run autogen.sh and ./configure, btw
19:49
Hold on, let me fire up a jaunty box, since ldm-trunk doesn't configure anymore on hardy
19:49
<stgraber>
yeah, I did a new export, changed Makefile.am then autogen/configure/make
19:50
<sbalneav>
On hardy:
19:50
checking for intltool >= 0.35.0... awk: cmd. line:1: fatal: cannot open file `./intltool-update.in' for reading (No such file or directory)
19:50
awk: cmd. line:1: fatal: cannot open file `./intltool-update.in' for reading (No such file or directory) found
19:50BenChapman has joined #ltsp
19:50
<sbalneav>
./configure: line 4917: test: : integer expression expected
19:50
configure: error: Your intltool is too old. You need intltool 0.35.0 or later.
19:51
<stgraber>
apt-get build-depend ldm, then sh autogen.sh should work
19:51
at least it does here
19:52
<sbalneav>
root@feniks:~# apt-get build-dep ldm
19:52
Reading package lists... Done
19:52
Building dependency tree
19:52
Reading state information... Done
19:52
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
19:52
Bzzzt :)
19:52
hold on, jaunty box booting
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19:57
<stgraber>
sbalneav: manually adding -pthread in the Makefile worked though, just need to find where to put it in Makefile.am
20:01
<BenChapman>
Hello, all. Does anyone here have any experience with Wyse S50 thin clients and LTSP?
20:01
<sbalneav>
stgraber: try 1167
20:03
BenChapman: No, but it looks like it comes with it's own version of Linux
20:03
Perhaps if you wanted to, you could simply enable XDMCP on your servers, and use them that way.
20:05
<BenChapman>
sbalneav: It does, and supports XDMCP along with other stuff. I've been experimenting with PXE-booting it as a traditional LTSP client, which works. It's a Geode at 500Mhz. Overall performance is fine, with the exception of Flash, which is *very* slow, 1-2 frames/sec.
20:06
<sbalneav>
On a geode, not surprising.
20:06
So, don't use flash :)
20:06
<BenChapman>
I saw an archived message which mentions that it will load the vesa X driver r/n nsc. Would the nsc driver give significantly better performance than Vesa?
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20:07
<sbalneav>
BenChapman: Try it and see.
20:07
<BenChapman>
:) - right - except that our University's home page starts up in Flash, which I don't have any control over. I will try the nsc driver. I am still using 4.2 b/c we have some Jammin 125 clients that I cannot get to work under LTSP 5.
20:10
<stgraber>
sbalneav: worked
20:12
<sbalneav>
BenChapman: Not to try to steer you towards anything else, but with motherboards like this available:
20:13
http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-D945GSEJT-Mini-ITX-Motherboard;jsessionid=0a0109491f436f3cb4049be146c8b0f1b5ddb46ad657.e3eSc38LcheTe34Pa38Ta38MaNb0?sc=8&category=100
20:13
And a cheap case like so:
20:13
http://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure?sc=8&category=87
20:14
Couple that with a $25 1 gig ram stick, why would you look at a wyse
20:14
and if you want a name brand out of the box solution:
20:15
http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/prod/200118.html?id=7LKjxY8z
20:15
Just seems that beating a wyse into submission would be a lot more work :)
20:16
All of those have intel graphics chipsets that work flawlessly out of the box with no fancy mods needed. On ltsp5
20:17
<BenChapman>
sbalneav: All true. And there's even http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220004. It's just that we have 10 of the Wyse boxes here as well as six of the old Jammin LTSP workstations. But you're completely right - at the end of the day, the Atom/Intel GMA probably makes the most sense.
20:19
<sbalneav>
If your doing this for a university, your *TIME* costs money too. Both in time to get a custom solution set up, *AND* time in having to maintain an old 4.2 installation that more and more... every day... gets further and further beeehhhiiiiiiind.
20:20
Or, just get all happy shiny new stuff, upgrade to the latest ltsp5 with localapps and bling. And be the hero!
20:20
The choice is clear :)
20:23
<BenChapman>
;) Absolutely! Now I see the light - Thanks for the info and the links; I really like that case.
20:24
Good-night all.
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20:24
<sbalneav>
Another satisfied customer :)
20:29
AFK for a bit, got some errands to do.
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21:47
<pmatulis>
which ubuntu release first featured LTSP5?
21:48
<vagrantc>
breezy badger ... 5.10?
21:49
but it was pretty crude back then.
21:49
<pmatulis>
thanks
21:50
thin client sessions are now encrypted?
21:51
<vagrantc>
have been since the beginning
21:51
for ltsp5
21:51
<pmatulis>
via SSH right?
21:51
<vagrantc>
yeah
21:51
<pmatulis>
there is also a secureless mode, how do you neuter SSH?
21:52
<vagrantc>
log in through ssh, but set the DISPLAY variable to just use X over tcp.
21:52
<pmatulis>
nice
21:53
<vagrantc>
requires a little trickery with xauth and freinds... just to have the slightest bit of security.
21:54
<pmatulis>
this secure tunnel is made prior to LDM kicking in? i'm a bit confused about interaction of SSH and LDM
21:54
<vagrantc>
LDM creates the tunnel
21:54
<pmatulis>
ah ok
21:54
LDM is running on the client
21:54
<vagrantc>
yes
21:55
ldm asks for user/password, ssh'es to the server as that user and starts a session.
21:56
<pmatulis>
with X11 forwarding set?
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21:56
<vagrantc>
yeah. basically, ldm is a GUI frotend for "ssh -X user@server /etc/X11/Xsession"
21:57
although we started using ssh -Y a while back. never quite understood why. same basic thing.
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22:02
<vagrantc>
stgraber: uploaded ldm 2.0.42 yet?
22:03
<stgraber>
yes
22:03
should be in karmic already
22:05
<vagrantc>
found it...
22:19
<pmatulis>
vagrantc: thanks for that info
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22:31
<vagrantc>
well, ldm 2.0.42 builds for me. haven't tested it.
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