IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 18 October 2009   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<nubae>
yes there are different types i know
00:00
Im trying to establish that we mean the same things when we are communicatings
00:00
<johnny>
do i need to draw a table?
00:00
<nubae>
ie.-- when I say dbus proxy to write a message on someone else's computer
00:01
I'm talking about using a method that does that
00:01
<Bart__>
ok I'll backup, if I backup, I just need to backup the chroot environment right?
00:01
/opt/ltsp/amd64, i386, what have you, right?
00:01
<nubae>
Bart__, usually
00:01
<Bart__>
I'm using Jaunty 9.04
00:02
<nubae>
johnny, I'm writing this as much for me as for u.... to make sure I understand it all properly
00:02
<Bart__>
Ok I'll take that as a yes
00:04
<nubae>
I mean... the gnome desktop is slowly beginning to telepathize all its apps
00:04
<johnny>
nubae: basically.. i want the user login to be presented with a dbus tree.. that contains some combinations of methods and signals from both the server and the client
00:04
<nubae>
as much as people hate it
00:04
<johnny>
uggh..
00:04
<nubae>
yeah well its happening
00:04
<johnny>
no.. i mean uggh.. i don't know why you're talking about it
00:04
not the telpathizing of apps
00:05
i don't see it in context to what i was trying to beg for your help with
00:05
<nubae>
o
00:05
<johnny>
i don't care how you implement it
00:05
<nubae>
i dont get one part
00:05
the user login presented with a dbys tree
00:05
<johnny>
yes..
00:06
with either more or less methods
00:06
<nubae>
u're describing dfeet to me
00:06
<johnny>
no.. i am describing what you would see in d-feet
00:07
if you looked in d-feet, you would see a mixture of interfaces from both the thin client hardware
00:07
<nubae>
ok am havinf difficulty seeing the difference between those 2 things, but never mind
00:07
<johnny>
and the server hadware
00:07
<nubae>
yeah
00:07
<johnny>
so.. org.freedesktop.DeviceKit.Disks for example
00:07
would be populated with inforamtion that was mixed in
00:07
<nubae>
so basically, u are saying lets dtube dfeet
00:07
ok
00:08
<johnny>
no..
00:08
:(
00:08
<nubae>
but of course
00:08
look...
00:08
<johnny>
i'm talking about the entire tree
00:08
being fake
00:08
<nubae>
me to
00:08
<johnny>
err
00:08
not being orignal
00:08
<nubae>
huh?=
00:09
hang on step back and letme explain what I see as a collaborative dfeet
00:09
<johnny>
that's not what i want!
00:10
<nubae>
the user launches the app... is presented with session bus or sysem bus, or specialised bus
00:10
<Bart__>
Ok bye everyone, thanks for all your efforts!
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00:10
<nubae>
there is a big button that says share dfeet
00:10
<johnny>
:(
00:10
<nubae>
when that is clicked, the connection manager pops up
00:11
and asks who to share with (multiples possible)
00:11
<johnny>
no!
00:11
<nubae>
please let me finisih
00:11
00:11
:-)
00:11
<johnny>
but it isn't at all what i want
00:11
you still aren't' understanding what i'm asking for..
00:12
<nubae>
ah I thought we were in a democracy
00:12
<johnny>
i'm not sure how else to explain ti
00:12
we are a democracy
00:12
but i was trying to beg for your help in solving a specific problem
00:12
and you don't seem to be understanding that specific problem
00:12
<nubae>
ok, and I am trying to explain how CURRENTLY
00:12
collaboration works
00:12
in general
00:12
so u have a starting poin
00:13
point
00:13
well so i have a starting point too
00:13
unless u know all this already
00:13
and I'm not mentioning anything new
00:14
<johnny>
let me ask you one thing thing.. can you restate in your own words what i want?
00:15
<nubae>
u want to be able to remotely control sessions
00:15
<johnny>
uhm..
00:16
<nubae>
and device connections
00:16
<johnny>
what does remotely controlled mean to you?
00:17
<nubae>
it means doing it over a network I gues
00:17
thats a hard question
00:17
<johnny>
i would say more specifically.. this is what i wanted
00:18
i want for the user to be able to have better control of all existing hardware both local in the thin client and what is on their remote session
00:18
to me..
00:19
the best way to accomplish that, would be to have ther user be presented with the environment as it is known to dbus at the time
00:19
<nubae>
ok.... but why do u need all that?
00:19
<johnny>
be a mixture of interfaces from bot the client, and the server
00:20
so.. if i plug a usb drive into a thin client
00:20
i should see a notification of it
00:20
in the remote sessions devicekit.disks signals
00:21
or rather.. those signals listeners..
00:21
which would be teh gnome session
00:21
and.. so when i use a method of device.kit disk on that specific disk.. it dispatches back to the client
00:22
we'll be rerouting those messages to either the client or server basedon the policy
00:22
<nubae>
ok this is low level pretty easy stuff
00:22
I mean... u can just tail dbus
00:22
<johnny>
seriously?
00:22
lol
00:22
how about we do it the right way..
00:23
tailing dbus won't actually help
00:23
<nubae>
Im still unsure what the point of the app is
00:23
what is its end use
00:23
cuase if its just another debugger
00:23
<johnny>
so the user can burn cds
00:23
<nubae>
not that interested
00:23
<johnny>
or use a scanner properly
00:24
or format their usb sticks
00:24
sounds like all good end user stuff to me
00:24
<nubae>
fine, but then we dont need a tree view of the dbus session and system buses
00:24
<johnny>
no.. we don't.. tht was never the point.. i was just trying to show you an example of wht i would see in there
00:24
it wasn't the end point at all.. just a side effect..
00:25
or example
00:26
<nubae>
ok, well.... let me tell u what I envision
00:26
just let me talk for a moment
00:27
<johnny>
to solve the specific problem of merging the system dbus with the session dbus of both client and server in which the exposed signals/methods are mapped back to to the right computer ?
00:28
<nubae>
I like what u are mentioning, its great, I think its like their terminal manager (we loose the term thin client ior fat client or whatever)
00:28
now
00:29
I imagine a user being greeted with a "what is your name?" dialogue the very first time only
00:29
this process is essential for the imprinting of product with user
00:30
Like modern msn/google talk stuff, we implement all the fancy XMPP XEPs
00:31
there are hundreds, from the absurd, to the really cool
00:32
but we analyse the ones we want that are supported by our xmpp server (ejabberd most likely)
00:32
so now we have a nice login screen with avatar, message of the day, lattest news maybe even
00:33
and connections to local moodle/twitter/laconica
00:33
basically a launchpad of types
00:33
all this before gnome
00:33
why u ask?
00:33
well because kiosks have hundreds of different uses
00:34
and the more flexibility the better
00:34
authentication happens with kerberos and ldap, TLS 2, and some ancient archaic SSL 1 running on port 8080
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00:35
<nubae>
we dont care
00:35
cause it all just happens low level
00:35
when the user is logging in, it knows all the data XMPP is capable of kowing about them
00:36
which is a lot
00:36
even geolocation
00:36
anyway, text to speech
00:36
avatars
00:37
personalised profiles dependent on time of day and classroom
00:38
to me telepathy (xmpp) provides a level of AI
00:38
about the user
00:38
and...... because of d tubes and streaming tubes
00:38
AI about the users you know
00:39
ok... end rant :-)
00:43
johnny, ?
00:44
<johnny>
yes.. that kind of app is going to happen
00:44
but that's just not the problem i am trying to solve..
00:45
<nubae>
ok, maybe I just not seeing the problem
00:46
what stops u opening a dtube to the thin client
00:46
call it dfeet.jonniesdomain.org
00:47
create the proxy objects using telepathy python
00:49
there is a specific interface to call "mission control"
00:49
let it choose the xmpp server .manager CM
00:50
then use the tp proxy tube creator
00:51
now u have a channel which u can use to pass XML back and forth with
00:51
on the other end
00:52
u are listening for any clients that announce themselves as d tubes
00:53
that makes the connection, and now u can also use the required proxy objects
00:55
there is even a neat little proxy object called groupthink
00:55
that does a lot of the collab tedious stuff for u
00:56
used for Sugar, but its telepathy specific so will work in Gnome just fine
00:58
has that answered anything at all?
01:10
which problem
01:11
so what is the problem?
01:31
<johnny>
you're talking about making things for a user.. i'm talking about making things used by other software only
01:39
<nubae>
so mor eoptimisation
01:39
fine, but then we dont need a tree view of the dbus session and system buses
01:44
ok, well meaubiu
01:54
<johnny>
THAT WAS NEVER THE POINT
01:55
only that the dbus tree was populated by methods/signals from both client and server
01:55
so that the client could do things that work when running locally
01:55
:(
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02:09
<nubae>
ma8eaeeg
02:09
ooops
02:10
'
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07:32
<mikkel>
Anyone using GMA 950 Intel graphic card, with Fedora 11 LTSP ?, I can't get it run more than 1024x756 ?
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09:23
<zamba>
mikkel: try logging in and out again
09:23
i've had issues like that
09:24
<mikkel>
zamba, Have tried everyting, nothing works.
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10:21
<mikkel>
How much of these options works. SCREEN_02=shell don't give me any shell on F2. LDM_DEBUG=True and LDM_SYSLOG=True don't give me anything on the SERVER ?
10:23
<vagrantc>
mikkel: try SCREEN_07=shell
10:23
mikkel: that should disable ldm ... if it doesn't, it's likely not reading your configuration.
10:24
i'm not as familiar with LDM_DEBUG and LDM_SYSLOG, but if you want logs to show up on the server you probably need to turn on remote syslogging.
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10:25
<mikkel>
vagrantc, It is reading it, when I put something about X it fails. I have edited /etc/rsyslog.conf on the server to accept UDP and TCP requests
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10:27
<vagrantc>
you should see your client's boot logs in /var/log/syslog, then...
10:27
is this on ubuntu?
10:28
you might try setting SYSLOG=remote, just in case it's disabled by default.
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10:44
<mikkel>
vagrantc, It is Fedora 11
10:45
<vagrantc>
fedora's ldm is getting rather out of date...
10:46
mikkel: i'd file bugs...
10:47
<mikkel>
vagrantc, will do
10:52
vagrantc, My real problem is to get GMA 950 intel graphic card to work i more than 1024x756. On LTSP homepage this card i said to be very good. But I can't get it to work.
10:55
<vagrantc>
mikkel: can you verify that it works at higher resolution through some other method? i.e. boot to hard disk or CD?
10:56
try to figure out if it's specific to fedora's ltsp implementation, or fedora's X.org drivers, or just the card itself.
10:56
possibly also try with different monitors...
10:56
<mikkel>
vagrantc, Will try to boot from at CD
10:57
<vagrantc>
that's about as far as i can be helpful with fedora.
11:01
<mikkel>
vagrantc, Just pluged a digital screen to the thin client and it worked. So It can't run though a analog conveter
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13:22
<cstk421>
good afternoon
13:23
is this a correct channel to discuss endian and pfsense firewalls ?
13:23
<johnny>
no
13:23
pfsense is a bsd thing ..
13:23
right?
13:23
<cstk421>
not sure
13:23
i assumed alll linux distros were close
13:24
<johnny>
bsd isn't a linux distro
13:24
it is a thing all on its own
13:24
<cstk421>
endian is a linux distro
13:24
not bsd i got this channel info on the same site where it mensions endian
13:24
http://lwn.net/Articles/216389/
13:25
<johnny>
that's a totally different article
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13:25
<johnny>
the first article is about ltsp, the second is about endian
13:26
<cstk421>
ah well im looking for support on firewalls similar to endian and pfsense. can you direct me to channel ?
13:27
<johnny>
try #endian ?
13:27
i don't know.. go to their website
13:27
see if they have a channel listed
13:27
<cstk421>
tried nothing
13:28
thanks though
13:28
<johnny>
then there might not be one
13:28
ask on their mailing list
13:28
<cstk421>
whats discussed here?
13:28
just linux os's?
13:28
<johnny>
linux terminal server
13:28
<cstk421>
ah
13:28
gotcha
13:28
gotta find dhcp help
13:28
thanks
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17:47
<nubae>
lo johnny
17:47
<johnny>
hi
17:47
<nubae>
I was just thinking about how to integrate twitter/laconica with xmpp for educational purposes
17:48
I mean... in the simplest sense, laconica and twitter group according to patterns and themes
17:48
I include people as a pattern or theme
17:49
now if u could really get AI profiling based on xmpp and laconica/twitter techno
17:49
that would be wat neat
17:51
and the net goes
18:00
how goes it today
18:01
did u see my part about putting AI into laconica/twitter via ejabberd
18:02
well, not just twitter
18:02
ai in all comms
18:05
<johnny>
nubae, look at the open microblogging spec
18:06
<nubae>
oh wheres tjatP
18:08
<johnny>
xep microblogging
18:08
search that
18:08
<nubae>
the url ir u might please
18:08
oh j
18:08
ok
18:09
anyway, something I'd like to build, a web based app
18:09
and tell me if u are interesting because I think u will be
18:09
basically have u seen orangenet?
18:10
orangemesh.org
18:11
anyway, I ripped the code away
18:11
added the good bits of laconica and twitter
18:13
and now I want to be able to see if it wold be possible ot stream a ltsp server over this mesh based infrastrsructure
18:15
wnd from the servers stream clients
18:15
ie... havea totally self reliant sel f fixing systenm
18:15
wgere teahers/admins communicate about thie rnotie via tiwtter/laconica
18:16
u think something like tht could be patentned?
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18:21
<nubae>
well. let me document the ideea
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18:39
<johnny>
i think think you're attack the problem from the wrong direction
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