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The new LTSP is hosted at https://ltsp.github.io

IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 17 July 2019   (all times are UTC)

00:58
<mwalters>
Chakal77: please define "modify anything on the client"
00:59
everything outside of $HOME will be reset after the client is rebooted
00:59
(normally)
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12:15
<Chakal77>
I want to sudo on client, i could not understand how to configure it on my server
12:36
<uumas>
Chakal77: Put a relevant RCFILE line in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/<arch>/lts.conf
12:36
!fat-sudo
12:36
<ltsp`>
fat-sudo: to allow members of the sudo group to execute "sudo" in fat clients without a password prompt, put this in lts.conf: RCFILE_01="echo '%sudo ALL=NOPASSWD: ALL' >> /etc/sudoers"
12:36
<uumas>
!sudoers
12:36
<ltsp`>
sudoers: Not recommented for security reasons: RCFILE_01="echo USER ALL=NOPASSWD: /path/to/program >> /etc/sudoers". USER and /path/to/program can also be ALL.
12:48
<Chakal77>
Where is the lts.conf in ner version of LTSP?
12:48
I've instalet in chroot mode on Ubuntu 18.04
12:48
<uumas>
Should be in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/<arch>/lts.conf
12:52
<mwalters>
what are you trying to accomplish by sudoing on the client?
12:52
anything in the client file system can be accessed on the server at /opt/ltsp/<arch>/, the client home folders are just the normal home folders on the server
12:52
after making updates to the client file system, run ltsp-update-image to create a new image for the clients
12:53
(use `ltsp-chroot -m` to quickly chroot into /opt/ltsp/<arch> and run apt and things like that
13:02
!ppa
13:02
<ltsp`>
I do not know about 'ppa', but I do know about these similar topics: 'sbalneav-ppa', 'greek-schools-ppa'
13:02
<mwalters>
!greek-schools-ppa
13:02
<ltsp`>
greek-schools-ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/ supports LTS Ubuntu releases with newer LTSP versions, bug fixes etc
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13:07
<mwalters>
alkisg: is the ppa in the IRC command the correct one? The one on the wiki looks different.
13:08
nvm
13:08
It's too early in the morning :D
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14:22
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so how far along is your LTSP rewrite ... are you starting to get to the point of firming up ideas?
14:30
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't have any new ideas; the last things that needed redesign were weeks ago,
14:30
currently I'm just playing with little things like "should tftp go to /srv/tftp or to /srv/ltsp? what do various distros do..." etc
14:31
I.e. only the "boring" code parts need implementation now
14:31
<vagrantc>
sure
14:31
just figured i'd check in since i have many hours of free time :)
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14:32
<alkisg>
Cool! Hmm... /me tries to remember any things worth discussing...
14:32
<vagrantc>
and if there was anything worth packaging up yet to land in experimental
14:32
i'm 4 hours closer in timezone for the next few weeks :)
14:33
<alkisg>
One packaging question would be... ltsp now has 3 main folders: /usr/share/ltsp/{server,client,common}
14:33
Debconf, yey! :)
14:33
I was thinking to package "server" in ltsp, and "client,common" in ltsp-client
14:33
with ltsp => Depends: ltsp-client
14:34
<vagrantc>
so there are clients without the server parts, but not the other way around?
14:34
<alkisg>
Right
14:34
The idea of a separate client package is actually just to save space, and to allow initramfs-less clients
14:34
<vagrantc>
we've effectively just been shipping a common copy in both server and client in a way that doesn't conflict ...
14:34
<alkisg>
(or weird initramfs systems that we can't affect with ltsp.img)
14:35
For example, the main /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp script belongs to "common"; I don't want 2 scripts, but a single one
14:35
<vagrantc>
so far i'm guessing you've worked with dracut and initramfs-tools ... others?
14:35
<alkisg>
As it might be sourced/executed by external scripts
14:36
I didn't prepare dracut, I've only played a bit with it, I leave it up to the fedora maintainer,
14:36
<vagrantc>
got it
14:36
<alkisg>
so currently I only support initramfs-tools
14:36
<vagrantc>
years ago there was talk of debian switching to dracut, but ... nobody realyl stepped up to the task
14:37
<alkisg>
It's not very responsive upstream, I filed specific bugs + patches with no response
14:37
Same goes for their irc channel
14:37
<vagrantc>
hrm. doesn't bode well
14:37
<alkisg>
Maybe packaging as 3 packages, ltsp-server/common/client would make more sense, but I love the sound of `apt install ltsp` :P
14:38
<vagrantc>
yes, "apt install ltsp" sounds like a good doal
14:38
<alkisg>
Maybe we'll also want some temporary packages for automatic upgrades to the new version
14:38
The separate ltsp-client package also helps in saving RAM, i.e. if the client already has /usr/share/ltsp, rsync won't need to copy the code to COW
14:39
<vagrantc>
but if it's not installed, it'll just eat more RAM ... makes sense
14:39
<alkisg>
Now that's just a few Kb, but who knows if we'll ever need themes :P
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14:39
<alkisg>
Passwordless logins and autologins work fine, and of course normal logins,
14:39
and clean up work fine too, at the last pam-close-session, when no other processes of that user exist
14:40
<vagrantc>
so if someone has screen or tmux running int he background ... ?
14:40
<alkisg>
Then sshfs won't unmount
14:40
<vagrantc>
right
14:40
<alkisg>
He'll probably want that, to keep his /home/username there for screen
14:41
<vagrantc>
and then log in again and things should "just work" ?
14:41
<alkisg>
Right; but he'd need to find a way to make screen work after logout with systemd
14:41
<vagrantc>
barring surprises :)
14:41
<alkisg>
It's doable, but systemd-specific
14:41
As I'm using the default systemd option of killprocessesonlogout or something, which is different from the debian/ubuntu default
14:42
...but necessary at least now that mate can't clean up properly
14:42
<vagrantc>
on my desktop systems with systemd, i run tmux, log out, log back in, and it just works...
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14:42
<vagrantc>
got it
14:42
<alkisg>
That's a distro-specific option; upstream says you shouldn't be able to do that
14:42
<vagrantc>
oh really
14:43
silly assumptions.
14:43
<alkisg>
Yes, separation of "session processes" vs "user processes" etc etc
14:43
It's a solid concept once you read about it
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14:43
<vagrantc>
i get why it would be that way ... but it ignores some real-world use-cases
14:44
<alkisg>
screen can arrange to be run as a user session process, not a desktop session process
14:44
<vagrantc>
and apparently debian thinks it's worth preserving those use cases, at least for now ... but for LTSP that might be more difficult to preserve..
14:44
<alkisg>
It's up to screen to write a wrapper
14:45
It's not an ltsp issue; e..g mate currently can't close all the user processes on logout; so on multiuser (non ltsp) systems, ram is exhausted
14:45
<vagrantc>
yeah, i get that...
14:45
<alkisg>
I.e. it's just a workaround for bugs in other programs, that were "revealed" with systemd, unrelated to ltsp
14:45
<vagrantc>
and your "fix" is to configure it to kill user processes on logout
14:46
<alkisg>
We don't have an issue of allowing mate running whatever it wants, it just exhausts our RAM
14:46
Right; it replaces "xexit" and other previous attempts at properly cleaning up,
14:46
<vagrantc>
seems reasonable and just needs to document it
14:46
<alkisg>
but, xexit was there because ldm/ssh/su couldn't clean up properly; while that killprocesses option is there because of mate etc, not ltsp
14:47
I'm thinking about template files now, if we should make them "heredocs" or "example file with manual replacements",
14:47
meaning:
14:47
cat <<EOF
14:47
example file with ${VARS} or $(commands here)
14:47
EOF
14:48
Our code would evaluate e.g. ltsp-server-dnsmasq as a heredoc, or.... second option...
14:48
the one we have now, to ship an example file that has e.g. "i386", and "sed" that with $ARCH
14:49
I've started with the second option, which is also what we're using now...
14:50
<vagrantc>
these are templates for things like "ltsp config dnsmasq" and such?
14:50
<alkisg>
Right
14:50
Btw, I'm using a single word for everything now, so, `ltsp initrd`, `ltsp kernel`, `ltsp ipxe`,`ltsp dnsmasq`, `ltsp nfs`...
14:51
I couldn't easily decide which words should be part of "config" and which of them not, so I simplified it :P
14:52
(and I'm calling them "applets", similar to busybox applets, hope that's a sane word to use for them...)
14:55
As for the template file names, I'm thinking of reusing the applet name, so it'll be: "ltsp-dnsmasq.conf" instead of "ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf", or "/etc/exports.d/ltsp-nfs.conf" etc etc
15:01
<vagrantc>
applets does make me think more of early java web development ... but sure :)
15:02
works for me
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15:51
<Chakal77>
The /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf does not exist on my system
15:54
<alkisg>
Chakal77: speaking once every 10 hours makes it hard for people to keep up with you and know what the issue is; it might be best if you wrote a summary that results in a specific question
15:55
lts.conf doesn't exist by default, so that part is fine
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18:59
<Chakal77>
I've got almost everything working but now i just don't know why my client images on my Wyse thin clients are not resolving my local dns. I mean i can resolve "google.com.br" but i can't resolve my Horizon Connection broker local "hzcs01.mydomain.local", what could be happening?
19:00
<alkisg>
No avahi-browser in the chroot?
19:15
<Chakal77>
What is that?
19:15
Iused this script to make a horizon kiosk mode client
19:16
https://github.com/leschartreux/ltsp-vmview
19:25
<alkisg>
This appears to create a thin chroot, so yeah you're missing packages. Install the avahi package in the chroot to be able to resolve mdns .local addresses
19:26
<Chakal77>
Ok, i'm gonna try
19:26
Thanks
19:26
<alkisg>
How is vmware horizon better than the others?
19:26
E.g. virtualbox or remote desktop?
19:26
<Chakal77>
It's a VDI system, works a bit diferent
19:27
It use some protocols that make it better, like VMware Blast and PCoIP
19:27
<alkisg>
So it's a faster remote desktop?
19:28
pcoip was a bad protocol, the last time I gave it a look...
19:28* alkisg googles vmware blast...
19:28
<Chakal77>
Yes, much better, you can even make a full deploy of applications faster than other technologies
19:28
Why was a bad protocol?
19:29
<alkisg>
Well first of all it required thin clients, which are extremely insufficient
19:29
!flash
19:29
<ltsp`>
flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
19:29
<alkisg>
People can't usually spare 2.5 gbps per client
19:29
(not just for flash; even for scrolling windows)
19:30
<Chakal77>
I'm still testing it, but till now here worked great
19:30
https://blogs.vmware.com/euc/2017/04/vmware-horizon-7-view-reviewers-guide-complete.html
19:30
<mwalters>
vouching: we ran the browser locally back when we used thin clients
19:30
<alkisg>
Ah, and blast is for remote desktop too...
19:30
I think remote desktop will only make sense again, when google stadia pushes nvidia to publish hardware encoding of 10 video streams in a cheap graphics card...
19:31
If a server can then broadcast 10 hdmi-over-the-network signals, it should be viable again...
19:32
<Chakal77>
Yes i think the same
19:32
<alkisg>
Your clients aren't good enough to make them fat clients? How much ram, which cpu do they have?
19:40
<Chakal77>
alkisg AMD G-T48E 1.40Ghz 4GB RAM
19:40
<alkisg>
Lots of ram, slow cpu...
19:40
I'd use them as fat clients, not thin
19:40
<Chakal77>
Yes
19:40
Thats the ideia
19:40
<alkisg>
But you're running thin clients
19:41
So I don't get your idea :)
19:41
You have a thin chroot and remote desktop vmware...
19:41
!fat-clients
19:41
<ltsp`>
I do not know about 'fat-clients', but I do know about these similar topics: 'epoptes-fat-clients'
19:41
<alkisg>
!fatclients
19:41
<ltsp`>
fatclients: Nowadays LTSP supports thin and fat clients. They are both diskless and netbooted from the same LTSP chroot, but while thin clients run the session on the server and transfer the screen, fat clients run the session locally with their own CPU/RAM, thus performing amazingly better. See also !ltsp-pnp and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
19:41
<vagrantc>
(or even no chroot at all!)
19:42
<Chakal77>
Which avahi package i have to install in chroot an what i have to configure to make dns on clients work?
19:42
<alkisg>
Hmm lots of old documentation though, we do need the rewrite :D
19:42
You said dns works, right?
19:42
What you need is avahi for mdns, not dns
19:42
<Chakal77>
What i have to install and configure
19:43
<alkisg>
avahi-daemon, IF I understood you correctly
19:43
<Chakal77>
On my LTSP server i can resolve "hzcs01.mydomain.local"
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19:43
<Chakal77>
But in ltsp client i can't
19:43
Just the IP
19:43
<alkisg>
Your ltsp client, can it resolve www.google.com ?
19:43
<Chakal77>
Yes
19:43
<alkisg>
OK, install avahi-daemon then
19:44
<Chakal77>
I have to install it directelly on chroot
19:44
?
19:44
<alkisg>
I think so. I think you want to use a thin chroot with a local app, if so, yes.
19:44
But I'm not sure that I understood what you're trying to do correctly
19:46
<Chakal77>
I have 20 Wyse ThinClients, my boss wants that people here uses them with horizon, boot from PXE and just login in their account
19:46
<alkisg>
I haven't used horizon, that's the part I'm missing
19:47
I guess you want to run that as a "localapp", so yeah, you'd need avahi-browser. Try it.
19:48
<Chakal77>
Whats is avahi-browser?
19:48
<alkisg>
apt install avahi-browser in the chroot
19:48
It's a package that provides "local dns"
19:48
For autodiscovery of nearby computers
19:49
<Chakal77>
avahi-daemon is already installed
19:49
<alkisg>
In the chroot?
19:49
<Chakal77>
But still not working
19:49
Yes
19:50
I tried the dns options found here also
19:50
https://linux.die.net/man/5/lts.conf
19:50
<alkisg>
Do you have a local DNS server?
19:50
<Chakal77>
Not working too
19:51
Yes i have a AD Server that is DHCP and DNS server
19:51
I need to point to the AD DNS
19:51
On clients
19:51
<alkisg>
And you're using a .local domain there?
19:51
<Chakal77>
Yes
19:51
<alkisg>
OK; avahi actually recommends against using a .local domain
19:51
So you can't even use avahi; I misunderstood your setup there
19:52
What's the output of this on the client? cat /etc/resolv.conf
19:59
<Chakal77>
nameserver 127.0.0.53
19:59
search mydomain.local
20:00
<alkisg>
And this ? systemd-resolve --status | grep -A 3 'DNS Servers'
20:01
And: getltscfg -a | grep DNS
20:03
<Chakal77>
DNS Servers: 10.0.0.250
20:03
DNS Domain: mydomain.local
20:04
10.in-addr.arpa
20:04
16.172.in-addr.arpa
20:04
<alkisg>
And is this your dns server?
20:05
<Chakal77>
Yes
20:05
10.0.0.250
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20:06
<alkisg>
OK then the client did get the DNS properly
20:06* alkisg waves, it's late here...
20:06
<Chakal77>
Yes
20:06
My AD DNS server
20:06
But it still can't resolve my "hzcs01.mydomain.local" Horizon server
20:07
I even already put the name and ip on /etc/hosts of LTSP server
20:07
Even e chroot also
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20:07
<Chakal77>
Nothing seems to work
20:19
What else can i do?
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