IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 April 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:56 | <alkisg> Good morning
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| 03:54 | <johnny> alkisg_web, my terminal setup is about to get exciting
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| 03:54 | <johnny> i got some dual core atoms with 2GB ram
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| 03:54 | intel graphics
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| 03:55 | i also got more fun stuff too
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| 03:58 | <alkisg_web> wow, those would make fine fat clients
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| 04:00 | <johnny> alkisg_web, yeah.. they come in 4 days :)
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| 04:23 | <dobber> is there a requirement for high-end video card on the server?
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| 04:24 | <Appiah> no
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| 04:29 | <dobber> anyone got a list of applications that are good to be started on the client?
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| 04:30 | firefox, vlc ... ?
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| 04:31 | <Appiah> you mean localapps?
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| 04:32 | That would be any application that could run fine on your clients and take a huge load off the server
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| 04:32 | Browsers+plugins is a good choice
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| 04:35 | <dobber> thanks
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| 04:35 | and what about thunderbird3 ?
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| 04:35 | with this indexing enabgled it is a good ram user
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| 04:37 | <Appiah> any heavy loading application you can fit on thin client
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| 04:38 | In my setups there's only been crappy thin clients with about 128ram so there is no localapps at all
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| 04:41 | <dobber> thanks
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| 08:33 | <Ghid0rah> Does anyone have any experience with LTSP-Cluster?
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| 08:47 | <sbalneav> Ghid0rah: stgraber'd be the one you'd want to talk to .
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| 08:47 | Morning all
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| 08:57 | <bix0r> Is there a way to get a local app to run an app "back" on the server? For example: local firefox opening openoffice on the server (webmail attachments)
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| 08:58 | <mordocai> bix0r: I was under the impression that it did that automatically... in theory i figured it'd run the regular openoffice.org <filename> command, and since you have to use a special command for localapps, that should run it on the server. I haven't tested(and can't right now) but i'd think that's how it'd work.
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| 09:04 | <bix0r> mordocai: well, openoffice is not installed on the client, so firefox does not find oowriter or ooffice, so I cannot give it any helper application path
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| 09:06 | <mordocai> bix0r: Hmm... that's wierd. Well, if i get my LTSP to allow me to log in again (it's having authentication problems) i'll see if i can figure out anything.
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| 09:06 | <bix0r> mordocai: thanks
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| 09:08 | <mordocai> I don't think RHEL beta 6 likes ltsp much... hmmm. (Testing server of course, not production). I had to use fedora 12 packages to install LTSP... and now authentication isn't working :(.
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| 09:08 | * mordocai goes searching through config files. | |
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| 09:10 | <sbalneav> bix0r: It would be technically possible, but I don't think anyone's done any work along those lines.
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| 09:10 | <komunista> hello all
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| 09:11 | <sbalneav> mordocai: We really need someone interested from the RHEL/CentOS community to step forward have a look at the Fedora packages.
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| 09:12 | <mordocai> sbalneav: Well, everything but authentication is working with the fedora 12 packages so far. And i have a feeling the authentication problem is related to a bug I filed recently.
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| 09:12 | <sbalneav> Which bug?
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| 09:12 | <mordocai> It's for RHEL beta 6, but i'll grab the link... one second.
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| 09:13 | <bix0r> sbalneav: that's too bad. My users aren't very happy now (probably never are). But I guess I could try to hack together a simple script client side to "ssh $SERVER oowriter $*".
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| 09:15 | <mordocai> sbalnaev: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=585953. The wierd thing is, like i mentioned on that bug, i can log in find if I do a su <username> from the terminal. But LDM just says the general "cannot connect to server" error that it gives with just about every error i've found so far...
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| 09:15 | s/find/fine/
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| 09:15 | <sbalneav> Yes, the screen scraping method LDM currently uses isn't too terribly informative of errors.
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| 09:16 | That's why I've started to write a pam module for ssh connections
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| 09:16 | LDM will eventually become a pam application.
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| 09:17 | bix0r: If you get something working, patches/additions upstream are always welcome.
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| 09:17 | <mordocai> Yeah, I think you mentioned that before. That would be pretty awesome.
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| 09:18 | <sbalneav> mordocai: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/ltsp/libpam-sshauth
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| 09:20 | <mordocai> sbalneav: Makes me wish I knew more about ssh authentication and was a better programmer. Oh well, i'm learning slowly. Hopefully soon i'll be able to actually help out in -something-.
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| 09:23 | <mordocai> So, do you happen to know if /etc/nslcd.conf usually has that pam_password md5 line in the configuration and nslcd on redhat just isn't working, or if that line is wrong? If it's just the line, I should be able to correct it and be fine. However, if it's the service... then it might be harder to fix -.-
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| 10:02 | <Gadi> bix0r: there is ltsp-remoteapps
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| 10:02 | what version are you running?
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| 10:05 | <bix0r> Gadi: ohh man... I thought I had checked if it existed! (running 5.1.90) Thanks a lot!
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| 10:06 | <Gadi> bix0r: not sure to what extent it is in that version
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| 10:06 | we had the same concerns about firefox opening remote apps
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| 10:06 | so, we began to hack together ltsp-remoteapps
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| 10:06 | to see if it is in there, type: ltsp-localapps xterm
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| 10:07 | to open a local xterm
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| 10:07 | then, in the local xterm, try: ltsp-remoteapps gnome-terminal
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| 10:07 | or something like that
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| 10:07 | it should open a new gnome terminal
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| 10:08 | remoteapps certainly could use more lovin, but it may be the beginnings of what u need
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| 10:08 | :)
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| 10:10 | <bix0r> Just read the code :) It's a good beginning for sure
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| 10:11 | <Gadi> bix0r: the code changed I think since 5.90
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| 10:11 | er, 5.1.90
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| 10:11 | you may want to look at the latest
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| 10:12 | it got a lot simpler
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| 10:13 | <Gadi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/head%3A/localapps/ltsp-remoteapps
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| 10:13 | <bix0r> ok, I will
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| 10:13 | <Gadi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/head%3A/localapps/ltsp-remoteappsd
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| 10:13 | <bix0r> nice!
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| 10:14 | <Gadi> we used to run one thing server side and the other client side and it was just silly
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| 10:14 | now, we simply run everything client side
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| 10:14 | and make use of the existing ssh socket
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| 10:14 | much cleaner
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| 10:19 | <ogra> localapps/ltsp-remoteapps eh ?
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| 10:21 | * alkisg thinks fat clients is much much simpler than local/remote apps... | |
| 10:22 | <ogra> all you need is a browser anyway :)
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| 10:22 | at least with the new web based stuff in lucid
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| 10:23 | no more oo.o or evolution if you dont want to ;)
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| 10:23 | <alkisg> ? does Lucid include a web-based office suite?
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| 10:24 | <ogra> just install firefox, flash, webservice-office-zoho, and desktop-webmail in the client and run it in kiosk mode :)
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| 10:24 | yep
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| 10:24 | we needed it for the arm port weher we have to deal with 256M based devices
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| 10:26 | <Gadi> cute
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| 10:26 | how well does it work?
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| 10:26 | * Gadi remembers who he''s asking | |
| 10:26 | <Gadi> ;)
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| 10:26 | <ogra> its OO.o and MS office compliant
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| 10:27 | works quite well, i havent tried any docs that contain macros or so yet though
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| 10:27 | but opens everything i have lying around
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| 10:27 | <Gadi> "opens"? can you edit?
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| 10:28 | <ogra> sure
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| 10:28 | <alkisg> Ugh, I just tried sending one of my greek-ltsp-docs and it ...killed it. It doesn't support stylesheets at all?
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| 10:28 | <ogra> no idea, i'D rather guess its a font issue
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| 10:29 | <alkisg> no colors, alignment, nothing
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| 10:29 | anyway brb
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| 10:40 | <mordocai> So it turns out i'm just forgetful and forgot to do ltsp-update-sshkeys and that's why i couldn't login to the Redhat Beta 6 box. So, officially, using the fc12 packages for: ltspfs-0.5.13-1.fc12.i686.rpm ldminfod-2.0.46-1.fc12.i686.rpm nbd-2.9.13-1.fc12.i686.rpm ltsp-server-5.1.95-1.fc12.i686.rpm and yum localinstall to get the rest of the deps, i was successfully able to get a LTSP system running.
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| 10:44 | Note: I just had a backup of my /opt/ltsp directory, so I didn't have to use ltsp-build-client. However, i tested it, and i tricked /etc/ltspdist to always say it's fedora so that it would build be a fedora client base. However, I would assume it would be possible to convert ltsp-build-client to use RHEL repositories to make a RHEL client.
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| 10:51 | <Ghid0rah> stgraber you around?
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| 10:51 | * komunista is happy, he see ldm in its native language :-) | |
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| 11:48 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: ping
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| 13:20 | <mgariepy> hi guys
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| 13:20 | any of you had problem with jetpipe ?
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| 13:21 | it always need to be restarted, it's crashing all the time, on some thin client i need to restart it 3 or 4 times per week
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| 13:22 | good afternoon btw :)
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| 13:22 | <abeehc> it does only support one connection at a time
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| 13:23 | at some point i recall pointing a couple clients directly to 9100 and it failed bad
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| 13:23 | good morning!
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| 13:35 | <myjess> Added a lot of packages to chroot, including kde, now I get timeouts of 120 seconds in the thin client console. If my image was 3.5GB, what memory would I need in my server to server that out? Thanks.
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| 13:35 | <johnny> you should regenerate it as a fat client chroot
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| 13:36 | as kubuntu if on ubuntu
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| 13:36 | ltsp-build-client --fatclient-desktop kubuntu for example
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| 13:36 | instead of adding kde
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| 13:37 | <myjess> That's going to build the whole thing again, But I have added lots of packages. ldm is still the display manager as far as I know cos it asked which one to use.
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| 13:37 | I also added edubuntu-desktop
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| 13:37 | <johnny> that's not a good idea
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| 13:37 | are you running this as regular ltsp?
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| 13:37 | <myjess> I have vlc and firefox in as local apps.
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| 13:37 | <johnny> or fat client ltsp?
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| 13:37 | ah.. then you do not want to add those things local
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| 13:37 | in the chroot at all
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| 13:37 | they will never get used
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| 13:37 | you should add them to the server instead
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| 13:37 | <myjess> I tried building fat clients but for some reason I couldn;t get them to work properly either. Same problem with timeouts actually.
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| 13:38 | <johnny> well, if you're not using fat clients, don't add all that stuff to the chroot, only firefox and flc
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| 13:38 | vlc*
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| 13:38 | <alkisg> myjess: fat clients are only supported in Lucid, did you try Lucid?
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| 13:38 | <johnny> alkisg, but still shouldn't install 3 different desktops in the chroot for a fat client
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| 13:38 | <alkisg> Also, adding desktops to the chroot manually will surely break stuff
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| 13:38 | <johnny> well 2 really
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| 13:38 | you must install them in the server
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| 13:38 | how much ram do you have in your client machines myjess ?
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| 13:39 | <myjess> lol. Thats me trying to push the envelope!
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| 13:39 | <johnny> anything less than 768 imo is a no go
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| 13:39 | <alkisg> johnny: I've tested ubuntu-desktop + edubuntu-desktop simultaneously, no problems there
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| 13:39 | <johnny> sure.. those are hardly different
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| 13:39 | <myjess> Well I am running these off vmware workstation and virtualbox at the mo, but eventually onto my busted laptop with 512MB ram.
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| 13:39 | <johnny> it's not that they aren't parallel installable in any case, only that the image gets way too big to install both kubuntu and ubuntu desktop
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| 13:39 | myjess, that's too small for fat clients
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| 13:39 | <myjess> The server and clients have 512MB ram.
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| 13:39 | <johnny> server is too little ram
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| 13:39 | <alkisg> I've tried 11 Gb images with no problems
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| 13:40 | <johnny> you should have 512 + 192 per client
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| 13:40 | alkisg, how long does that take too boot??
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| 13:40 | <alkisg> 25 secs
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| 13:40 | <johnny> seems like something would give up the ghost there..
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| 13:40 | but perhaps not
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| 13:40 | <alkisg> ...and another 25 for logon (too long there; I haven't looked why)
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| 13:40 | <johnny> myjess, if you really want to use a 512mb ram machine as client, then you shouldn't use fat clients
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| 13:41 | <alkisg> Well with a 512 RAM server he doesn't have much options :)
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| 13:41 | <johnny> 512mb is just too small to run kde or gnome + firefox
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| 13:41 | <myjess> ok. Server is sitting at 175MB with no swap at mo and client is just starting to load.
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| 13:41 | <johnny> yeah..
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| 13:41 | <myjess> I am not using fat clients am I, the only thing I have localapp is firefox and vlc
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| 13:41 | <johnny> myjess, i just tried 512mb fat clients.. doesn't work well at all
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| 13:41 | <alkisg> myjess: so you have what, a 512 mb server + a couple of 512 MB clients? How did you decide which one would be the server?
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| 13:42 | <johnny> myjess, then don't install all the desktops to your client
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| 13:42 | i would suggest killing your chroot and reinstalling firefox + vlc
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| 13:42 | <myjess> I have a faster box in the attic that I have Vmware workstation on. Only it's only got 1GB with XP on it.
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| 13:43 | ok. server as given by system monitor is still sitting at 175MB
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| 13:43 | The Kubuntu loading progess bar is up on the clients screen.
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| 13:43 | With nothing much happening on the Nics
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| 13:44 | now gone to "setting up ltsp client"
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| 13:45 | I am a bit wary up upgrading to 10.4, after all, it's taken me two weeks to get this far!
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| 13:46 | <abeehc> that tends to happen when you don't have the right equipment to start with
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| 13:46 | <myjess> and there we have the info messages . Lots of tasks blocked for more than 120 secs. But the server is still sitting at 174MB.
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| 13:46 | Sorry, 179MB, so it's not a server ram problem at this stage.
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| 13:47 | I am running these in vmware and virtualbox. They have bog standard virtualised bits in each vm
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| 13:48 | <abeehc> i run in vmware too
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| 13:48 | my server has enough memory though
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| 13:48 | <myjess> Now if I power off this client, the nbdserver stays running and even ties up the image. I mean If I kill this client and delete the image, the space is still used up until I manually kill each nbdserver
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| 13:48 | <abeehc> and my chroot is nice and clean
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| 13:49 | <myjess> and if I start the client again, it starts another nbdserver process.
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| 13:50 | ha, it just made a liar out of me. There are no nbdservers running! No idea why that has changed since the last couple weeks.
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| 13:51 | Right guys. How can I make an edubuntu image with firefox and vlc so that vlc runs ok on a hard wired old busted laptop? I want my daughter to be able to use this client from the TV? Thanks.
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| 13:52 | <vbundi> install vlc into your chroot and run VLC as a localapp
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| 13:53 | same with firefox
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| 13:53 | <myjess> When I create an ltsp image, not a fatclient, it create one for ubuntu. How can I create one for edubuntu, with firefox and vlc as above?
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| 13:54 | <vbundi> oh, sorry not sure... don't have any edubuntu experience
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| 13:55 | <myjess> there seems to be edubuntu-desktop-gnome in aptitude but when I tried to install it, it said there was no such package.
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| 13:55 | That's why I have gone for edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-desktop-kds
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| 13:55 | -kde even!
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| 13:55 | <vbundi> yeah I don't think you want to install edubuntu-desktop in your chroot though
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| 13:56 | <abeehc> no doubt
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| 13:56 | mentioned previously
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| 13:56 | <myjess> Well, all the stuff I read was all abut getting edubuntu on the clients.
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| 13:56 | <vbundi> oh, my mistake ;) I didn't read the previous stuff
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| 13:56 | <alkisg> myjess: if you don't build a fat client chroot, then the DE that you install in the chroot won't be used at all.
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| 13:57 | You need to install it on the server for thin clients, not on the chroot.
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| 13:57 | <myjess> Ok, so have I converted this image to a fat client without my knowledge by installin kde into it?
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| 13:57 | <abeehc> start from scratch!
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| 13:57 | <myjess> Again, for the 40th time!
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| 13:58 | <abeehc> join the club!
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| 13:58 | <myjess> can I not just remove the packages I installed?
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| 13:58 | <alkisg> myjess: no, building a fat client chroot runs a special ltsp-build-client plugin which does some stuff to actually make it fat.
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| 13:58 | You can read it and do those things manually if you want
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| 13:58 | <myjess> I really want edubuntu. So to get edubuntu I have to install it from scratch then on the server and then build a new image of that?
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| 13:58 | <vbundi> be back in a bit
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| 13:58 | <myjess> and then add vlc and firefox to the chroot?
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| 13:59 | <alkisg> Firefox gets installed automatically as part of the ubuntu-desktop task
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| 13:59 | <myjess> but I have been told to put it local along with flash plugin in one of the docs I read
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| 13:59 | <alkisg> I'd suggest to install Lucid, and try the fat client plugin. I've tested it with edubuntu fat clients, they run great.
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| 14:00 | Those are talking about localapps, not fat clients
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| 14:00 | <myjess> So tell me what to do to get edubunut lucid, fat clients, firefox and vlc please, please, please?
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> Here's the how to: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 14:00 | <myjess> I've read that.
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| 14:00 | Is it now updated for lucid?
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| 14:01 | <alkisg> FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOPS="ubuntu-desktop" ==> FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOPS="edubuntu-desktop", and add vlc to LATE_PACKAGES
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| 14:01 | I've written it for Lucid in the first place. Fat clients don't work on previous versions... (except for Karmic with backports)
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| 14:01 | <myjess> sorry m8, that sentence means nothing to me, please explain?
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| 14:01 | <alkisg> Search the wiki for that line
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| 14:01 | FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOPS="ubuntu-desktop"
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| 14:02 | You'll need to put "edubuntu-desktop" in that line
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| 14:02 | <myjess> Are you serios???? I have karmic and have been trying fat clients for two weeks!
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| 14:02 | it states somewhere to put in stgraer or something for karmic fat clients.
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> Right. I've written that page, I know what it says :)
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| 14:03 | <myjess> I followed that. Was that me putting in backports?
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| 14:03 | <Ghid0rah> Does anyone have any clue why when I put vlc in as a local app in lts.conf my terminal will not load
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| 14:03 | <alkisg> myjess: yes, that was backports.
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| 14:03 | <myjess> ahhh!
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| 14:04 | ok. I am going to stop the client, server, and blow away the snapshot. That'll put my server right back to when the image worked, before I added a load of stuff. I will then download the lucid image and try again on another VM, from scratch. Thanks again for your help.
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| 14:05 | <alkisg> myjess: if you managed to do it with karmic backports, you could just add the edubuntu desktop there and build the chroot again
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| 14:05 | No need to reinstall the server with Lucid, unless you want to do it to get a newer version.
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| 14:05 | <myjess> That's what I do not know how to do? Do I just aptitude install edubuntu to my server and rebuild image?
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| 14:05 | putting in my additional bits of course?
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| 14:06 | <alkisg> No. You do rm -rf /opt/ltsp and then follow that wiki page. ltsp-build-client will then install edubuntu for you.
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| 14:06 | FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOPS="edubuntu-desktop ubuntu-desktop"
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| 14:06 | <myjess> shoot, my ISP is going to go bonkers. I must nearly in the 3 figure GB range now for downloads.
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| 14:06 | <alkisg> You need both of them
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| 14:07 | Put MOUNT_PACKAGE_DIR="/var/cache/apt/archives" in ltsp-build-client.conf so that it reused the already downloaded packages
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| 14:08 | <myjess> There are switches for keeping the downloaded packages, and then there was documentation to copy /var/lib/apt to /opt/ltsp/i386 and then chroot apt-get update, apt-get upgrade. Do I still do those.
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| 14:08 | ok to the first bit.
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| 14:13 | alkisg what command line switches do I use when I change the build conf file to what you state above?
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> myjess: if you use an ltsp-build-client.conf file, then you don't need any switches at all. You just run `sudo ltsp-build-client`.
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| 14:18 | <myjess> yeh I see that written on the page, but thanks for clarifying it. Just an FYI. I reverted the snapshot. I am back to my 1.75GB image, and it boots fine with the ltsp.org login page. I think I will move that image and start again as you have stated.
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| 14:19 | <myjess> On another note, last night or the night before I asked on this irc page if there was anyway to put a different colour for the prompt into your chroot script in that same wiki page cos I keep forgetting I am chroot'd and run stupid command in it.
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| 14:20 | oh, and I was reight about the Nbdserver still running and not shutting down when I closed my client, i grepped for nbdserver, the last time when I should have grepped for Nbdserver.
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| 14:25 | <myjess> Can i do firefox and flashplugin as a late package please?
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| 14:28 | <alkisg> You don't need firefox, it's included with ubuntu-desktop
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| 14:28 | You can either put flash or the whole ubuntu-restricted-extras, whatever you like
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| 14:29 | <myjess> the latter sounds better.
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| 14:29 | <alkisg> myjess: if you follow that page, you'll get ubuntu-restricted-extras, which already has flash
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| 14:29 | ...and for fat clients nfs /home is better, e.g. evolution doesn't work with sshfs
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| 14:29 | (that's also true for localapps)
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| 14:30 | <myjess> sorry, you lost me there. I have not even looked to the nfs route becuase it has been hard enough doing this. I thought nfs was old hat and I shouldn't be going down that route anyway.
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| 14:31 | Where's the wiki page that does karmic image like what I am looking for with NFS instead of NBD?
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> I meant nfs for /home, not for sharing the chroot.
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| 14:33 | Just leave nfs-client in the late-packages as the wiki page says, and you can either enable nfs /home or disable it afterwards.
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| 14:34 | <myjess> alkisg? That line with the late packages, it is split up into separate lines, other lines were like that too in the conf file.
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| 14:35 | I have made the other lines just the one line, do I have to do the same with the late packages?
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| 14:35 | ot does ltsp recognise it as a continuation until the closing "?
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| 14:36 | <johnny> it's not ltsp.. the shell parser does
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| 14:36 | <myjess> right, ok.
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> Right
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| 14:49 | <myjess> maybe throwing a couple 3Ghz processors at this build will make it go quicker!
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| 14:51 | <myjess> alkisg, could I not have taken my working image and did something that put edubuntu on it, instead of building from scratch?
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> myjess: yes, like I said you could do what the fat client plugin does, manually
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| 14:52 | (i.e. read the source code and run it in the shell)
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| 14:52 | <myjess> please remind me again how I was to do that?
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-fat-client
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| 14:55 | <myjess> Alkisg, I have been using that conf script from the wiki throughout my trials and tribulations. So I have always been build fat clients then!
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| 14:57 | <komunista> !lts.conf
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| 14:57 | <ltspbot`> komunista: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 15:02 | <komunista> I can't find nothing about LTSP_CONFIG=True, what is it for, please?
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> komunista: is that debian?
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| 15:04 | <komunista> yes, testing, default lts.conf
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| 15:04 | <alkisg> There's a script, ltsp_config, which runs when the clients boot and decides some default values for some variables
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| 15:05 | LTSP_CONFIG is set to true after it runs so that it doesn't do the same calculations again and again
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| 15:05 | <komunista> thanks :-)
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> I'm not exactly sure why debian sets LTSP_CONFIG=True, maybe so that it prevents it from running a second time
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| 15:51 | <myjess> hmmm. I didn't realise, but moving the image to another name inside the images dir makes ltsp-build build a new tftpboot dir. I got the new image to boot in the client and it is sitting at the username login screen, but I get no answer from server when I try to login.
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| 16:03 | <komunista> good night
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| 16:29 | <markit> I've no /var/lib/tftpboot dir created or populated :( what program is expected to do so? ltsp-update-image? update-kernel?
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| 16:30 | <epaphus> Hello guys. I have the option set so only 1 user can login at the same time in any terminal. When an active user leaves his terminal session opened and logs into another terminal the first isnt logged off correctly... and thus the icons dissapear and only the cursor works and the background image is displayed/
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| 16:30 | Why is this? it is causing problems with italc
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| 16:30 | <markit> does tftp server need to be running during ltsp-build-client ?
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| 16:31 | epaphus: hi, I'm planning to test italc too, but I've found somewhere that a special script is needed to be used if ltsp is involved... any tip or documentation that tells the right things to do?
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> markit: no, it doesn't need to be running. The tftp dir is created with ltsp-update-kernels.
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| 16:32 | For italc, there are 2 ways to use it; the simple one is to just do `apt-get install italc-master` and logoff/logon everyone.
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| 16:33 | <markit> alkisg: not need to install a client part in ltsp server?
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| 16:33 | <epaphus> markit, nothing special..
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| 16:33 | markit, let me tell you what i followed sec
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> markit: italc-master depends on the italc-client so there's no need for anything else
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| 16:34 | <markit> and ltsp-update-kernels seems to do nothing :( how can I find why? kubuntu 9.10 (let me turn on again, is my laptop)
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| 16:34 | alkisg: ah, so the client part is automatically installed... no more config needed? it has to run (the client part) locally, on the same pc of the server...
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| 16:34 | that is not the "usual" situation, I guess
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| 16:35 | <epaphus> markit, i followed this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
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| 16:35 | alkisg, perhaps you know why this behaves like that? :D
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| 16:35 | hello _UsUrPeR_ :D
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| 16:35 | <markit> epaphus: "This page is specific to Ubuntu versions 8.04"
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> epaphus: what method did you use to install italc? in the chroot, or just on the server?
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| 16:36 | (there are 2 method in the page you posted)
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| 16:36 | <epaphus> alkisg, just on the server
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| 16:36 | with the START ITALC though
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> So just an `apt-get install italc-master`?
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| 16:36 | <epaphus> markit, thats what i used in 9.10
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> Then START_ITALC doesn't do anything
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| 16:36 | <epaphus> oh
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| 16:36 | hm
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> That's only used when you install italc on the chroot
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| 16:38 | <markit> wow, the italc installation in the server (no chroot) seems so "automagical", hope really works as stated
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| 16:39 | * alkisg is creating his own italc implementation because italc crashes too often in some labs... | |
| 16:41 | <markit> alkisg: urgh... scaring statement. Will you give it upstream? One I know told me that the guy who created it is not very happy to use contributed code
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| 16:41 | but maybe my friend just gave of bad quality, lol
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| 16:42 | <alkisg> I tried to offer patches upstream, but got no answer. And ever since iTalc crashed every 10 seconds in my new lab, I stopped using it.
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| 16:42 | <epaphus> italc works fine for me .
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| 16:42 | <alkisg> So i'm now using a solution based on x11vnc
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| 16:44 | <markit> alkisg: so back to my problem (I'm logged on my laptop through ssh now), I've no /var/lib/tftpboot directory right now, I sudo ltsp-update-kernels and I should have one?
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| 16:44 | ltsp-update-kernels does nor prints nothing :(
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| 16:44 | <alkisg> Yup. So check if you have a different tftp dir somehow, e.g. /srv
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| 16:45 | (or if you don't have a chroot generated by ltsp-build-client)
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| 16:45 | <markit> I've /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 16:45 | and now I'm running find / -iname tftpboot
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| 16:46 | btw, an error message if does nothing would be apreciated...
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| 16:46 | I recall it shows something if does something, no?
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| 16:46 | find did not find anything :(
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| 16:47 | any idea? I'm clueless
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| 16:48 | <alkisg> markit: open the file and put a `set -x` on top of it, so that you see what it executes
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| 16:48 | <markit> I've also done a ltsp-build-client again today... btw, having 9.10 and specify 10.04 as targhet, could produce problems?
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| 16:50 | mm seems that /var/lib/tftpboot must exist!
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| 16:50 | <alkisg> That's created when you install tftp
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| 16:51 | <markit> alkisg: oh, funny :) I'm using dnsmasq, and did not created it
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| 16:51 | maybe the script, if none of the "possible" dir are found, should create by default /var/lib/tftpdir
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| 16:51 | <markit> sorry, tftpboot
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| 16:52 | i.e. you could remove by mistake, or rename to try a different build...
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| 16:52 | alkisg: thanks A LOT for your -x tip
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| 16:52 | <alkisg> np
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| 16:52 | <markit> I really had no clue about how to fix it
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| 16:53 | so your italc implementation is not a italc fork, but a different solution... sad upstream is not interested in patches, very sad
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| 16:54 | epaphus: what is your configuration? how many clients? all ltsp? what kind of school? (cildren's age?) where are you from?
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| 17:04 | <markit> maybe I scared him with too many questions, lol
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| 17:05 | alkisg: btw, do you use dansguardian also? Seems that transparent squid does not let you use ident authentication, sigh... maybe you know a trick
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> No, I'm using identd with squid
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| 17:07 | <markit> could you please elaborate further? I need to let teacher ltsp account be free when surfing, but don't want a "login web page"
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| 17:07 | teacher will run in ltsp "console" (on the phisical server PC)
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> identd allows ACLs based on the user id, so yup, you can do that
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| 17:08 | I'm setting the proxy through pac - you can also force it with mandatory gconf settings
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| 17:08 | <markit> but seems that does not work if you use squid in transparent mode, or ident is different from identd?
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> I'm not using transparent squid
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| 17:09 | <markit> ah I see, with proxy setting works
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| 17:09 | I'm a kde guy... and don't want to have to login on each of the 40 accounts to set firefox to use 8080
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> You can use mandatory firefox settings
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| 17:10 | <markit> what is "pac"? could be usefull to me also?
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> pac is a way for the browser to discover the proxy automatically
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| 17:10 | I want it so that the clients can surf even if the squid is down
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| 17:11 | <markit> but you have to set firefox to use pac for each user, or is the default?
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| 17:12 | seems is not the default, at least on debian
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> No, I'm using mandatory gconf settings for that
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| 17:12 | But you could use the firefox `user.js`
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| 17:13 | <markit> I'll google for that two options, thanks a lot again :)
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| 17:15 | <alkisg> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Locking_preferences
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| 17:17 | <markit> too kind, thanks
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| 17:20 | <alkisg> (you can also use google translate on http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=1619.0 where I've got all the settings in one script)
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| 17:23 | <myjess> Someone please state what could be causing the client to not progress a login when I have just built the image? Thanks.
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| 17:25 | <vagrantc> myjess: try running ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 17:26 | myjess: if you're running ubuntu, you'll also need to run ltsp-update-image
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| 17:26 | <myjess> yeh, doing both now in the order mentioned. But, I didn;t think I had to do this if I just created a new image and haven't changed the server's Ip address.
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| 17:26 | <vagrantc> shouldn't ltsp-update-sshkeys drop someting into the tftp dir just like lts.conf?
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| 17:27 | myjess: you shouldn't, but sometimes there are bugs.
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| 17:27 | some of which are hard to figure out...
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| 17:28 | <myjess> I know about the wiki's, but is there an FAQ which tells me what to do when errors like this present themselves?
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| 17:29 | Thanks anyway, doing those now. mutter, mutter! If I went down the NFS route would I have to constantly rebuild this image. This is a serious delay.
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| 17:29 | <markit> myjess: I usually use wireshark on the server to figure out what's happening
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| 17:29 | <myjess> Or why can whatever update-sshkeys does not be put into the lts.conf which is now outside of the image.
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| 17:29 | <markit> myjess: or tail -f to some log
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| 17:30 | <myjess> yeh, what log tho.
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| 17:30 | <markit> I usually do a ls -ltr /var/log just after the problem, to see the last modified ones
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| 17:30 | then digg inside them
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| 17:31 | or find /var/log -mmin -2
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| 17:31 | if you suspect could be stored in any subdir
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| 17:32 | with "not progress a login" you mean that the client booted fine, you have the login screen, enter username and password but nothign happens? if you are back to login, you could are using the wrong password...
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| 17:32 | <myjess> Yikes. This server was pulled from my netbook and both are up and running, and the server still has the same name as the netbook, DOH!
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| 17:32 | Would that affect the sshkeys?
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| 17:32 | dnsmasq is off in the netbook, I have made sure of that so there is only the one tftp server, on the server, and that is dnsmasq.
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| 17:33 | <vagrantc> myjess: yes, the big advantage of NFS is that you don't have to ever run ltsp-update-image. :)
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| 17:33 | though it definitely boots a bit slower.
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| 17:34 | <myjess> I haven't got this to any physical boxes yet, running server of vmware, running client on another computer off vbox.
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| 17:34 | <markit> vagrantc: just a matter of boot time? thouight also operation was slower. So no much gain
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| 17:34 | <myjess> I wouldn;t mind it being a bit slower when I am experimenting, and then I could go to nbd when I have the finished article.
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| 17:35 | <vagrantc> markit: well, if you're running localapps, it's probably sloewr for that too. but if you're using a true thin client, you'll barely notice a speed difference except at boot, login and logout.
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| 17:36 | <myjess> This is really hacking me off. I was advised to build a new image, and now that I have, it will not lewt me login.
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| 17:36 | <markit> vagrantc: I've read about a "fat client" option in recent ltsp, could be interesting expecially for multimedia performances. Do you know if you can run just some apps locally, or is a "global" setting?
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| 17:36 | <myjess> nothing in the logs that I see telling me of any problems. You'd think there'd be a log window in the ldm to advise me what is wrong.
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| 17:37 | <vagrantc> markit: fatclient support is essentially running everything locally.
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| 17:37 | markit: localapps is running a few applications locally, but most on the server.
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| 17:38 | and then there's remoteapps, which is running as a fatclient with a few applications on the server.
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| 17:38 | anything is possible. :)
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| 17:38 | <markit> urgh, are those options well documented and supported?
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| 17:38 | <myjess> It's ssh when logging in is it not? just need to know so I can filter the port in wireshark on the server.
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| 17:38 | <vagrantc> markit: reasonably well documented in the manual:
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| 17:38 | !docs
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| 17:38 | <ltspbot`> vagrantc: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 17:39 | <markit> myjess: can't you filter the client IP?
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| 17:39 | <vagrantc> reasonably well supported with recent versions, i'd say.
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| 17:39 | myjess: are you able to log into the server via ssh?
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| 17:39 | <markit> vagrantc: how could he test ssh? is an option in the login screen? never noticed if so
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| 17:41 | <myjess> yes I am
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| 17:41 | yes I can I mean.
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| 17:41 | from my netbook I can ssh to ip of server
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| 17:42 | <vagrantc> just to test... can you ssh to the server from the server itself, or from another workstation on the network...
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| 17:42 | using the same user/password
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| 17:42 | myjess: does /var/log/auth.log on the server show that it tried to login and failed?
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| 17:42 | anything in /home/USER/.xsession-errors ?
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| 17:43 | <myjess> I did, from my netbook, it has the original server image, I just copid the netbook image over to the server earlier today and did the install-grub etc to get it working there.
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| 17:43 | let me check.
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| 17:43 | <vagrantc> myjess: can you try with a different username/password
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| 17:43 | <myjess> oh yeh, good point!
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| 17:43 | <vagrantc> just some of the basic troubleshooting issues
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| 17:44 | <myjess> yep I can ssh using the username/password that I type at the client logn window.
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| 17:44 | I am getting nothing back from the client other than arp and mdns
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| 17:44 | in wireshark on the server I mean.
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| 17:45 | <markit> myjess: btw, you are running client as a virtual machine? are you sure the keyboard is mapped correctly? use a password like "aaa"
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| 17:45 | (just in case there is a wrong mapped keyboard)
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| 17:45 | <myjess> markit, I was using this already in my old image, nothing has changed apart from a new image, no other keymapping or anything.
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| 17:46 | earlier in the week, Just before the ldm screen appears there was a message saying connection refused, but that was for an old image. I have not seen that here in this client boot.
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| 17:46 | Although I may be missing it.
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| 17:46 | <markit> maybe the fact that you have two hosts with the same hostname could confuse the client? (dubt, since is not windows that spread around it's hostname)
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| 17:47 | <myjess> That's how I knew the ssh wasn;t working properly before.
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| 17:47 | <markit> with wireshark you should see the ssh connection dialog... seems the client tryes to ssh in a different server...
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| 17:48 | <myjess> what bugs me is why IO am not getting anything back from the client, yeh, exactly, nada, zilch!
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| 17:48 | <markit> even if you just rebuild the image... but let's avoid any assumption
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| 17:49 | did you configured lts.conf differently?
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| 17:49 | maybe rebuilding the image has made that configuration be effective
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| 17:49 | <myjess> nope
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| 17:49 | <markit> while before was not
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| 17:49 | triple/double check, please
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| 17:50 | <myjess> what did happen tho, I moved the original i386 dir to another one and when I created this image, it built a new tftpboot, and used port 2001 instead in the pxeconfig.d/default file.
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| 17:50 | I have since put everything back to the way it was with port 2000, and restarted xinetd(it's xinetd cos I wanted Xvnc on my netbook), and dnsmasq
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| 17:50 | It boots fine to the login propmt, but get no further.
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| 17:52 | <markit> so nmap localhost shows 2000/tcp open callbook
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| 17:52 | (on the server)
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| 17:52 | <vagrantc> that's the port used for NBD (the root filesystem)
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| 17:53 | <myjess> ah jeez! it's booting from my server, picking up nbdserver from my netbook! No wonder it won;t login in!
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| 17:53 | * markit is clueless now, just hopes that talking with myjess will make him have a good idea | |
| 17:53 | <markit> urra! :)
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> myjess: also, you can set SCREEN_NN=shell to get a commandline shell for ldm.
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| 17:54 | where NN is a tty with nothing else running on it
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| 17:55 | <myjess> just commenting out /etc/services entries on netbook and restarting xinetd
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| 17:56 | cant turn the NB off see, cos I am uping it to lucid.
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| 17:56 | lets try again!
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| 17:58 | jeez louise. It's working now! What an idiot I am!
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| 17:59 | <markit> myjess: well, time ago I spent a whole afternoon fixind a problem was related to a 192.168.0.x instead of 192.168.1.x (notece 0 / 1)
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| 18:00 | I was unable to "see" it
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| 18:00 | <myjess> Oh Darn, I forgot to chroot and change root password, and then put in my scripts.
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| 18:00 | back to rebuilding yet again.
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| 18:00 | Anyone know if I can put gnome-system-monitor in as a package so I can see how much ram etc the client vm is using?
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| 18:01 | I could type free when I get root access but I would like the trending.
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| 18:02 | By the way, anyone on here that keeps the irc logs, nubrae is it?
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| 18:02 | Is there any search at that site that I can use to search through all the logs?
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| 18:03 | Thnaks all, btw, you have been a great help.
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| 18:03 | Thanks even!
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| 18:04 | <abeehc> i think google assisted search works for the logs
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| 18:05 | <myjess> Is that on the site, I cannot remember seeing it
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| 18:05 | <abeehc> no just have to hex the google lemme see
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| 18:05 | google something like fat-client site:http://www.nubae.com/logs/
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| 18:11 | <vagrantc> myjess: don't bother with setting a root password, you can just set it with a screen script.
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| 18:12 | or rather, gain root access
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| 18:14 | <myjess> no idea what you mean, sorry. I have to call it a night anyway. Past midnight. Thanks for all your help. and thanks for that google tip
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| 18:15 | <abeehc> i'm the only one that finds unlocking the acct and installing ssh to the chroot useful?
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| 18:17 | <myjess> abeehc If you had instructions, I would welcome them. Tanks.
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| 18:17 | I catch up by viewing the logs. bye.
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> abeehc: no, but it seems overly complicated...
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| 18:21 | to me at least
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| 18:26 | <abeehc> hmf i didn't find that
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| 18:26 | i think it's 3 steps
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| 18:26 | it's pretty \useful though i've caught client panics due to bad hardware
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| 18:27 | have a script that reboots or shutdown all idle clients on the network
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| 18:27 | maybe there are better ways
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| 18:29 | also lets me fire up x11vnc as neccesary which is pretty freakin often as i'm normaly remote
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| 22:47 | <jammcq> howdie all
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