IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 June 2014   (all times are UTC)

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02:39
<Asterisks>
hello gbaman
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13:50
<muppis>
I'm stuck. I need ltsp functionality, but I want rw nfs as root. o.0
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14:44
<muppis>
Says no export entry even exportfs -v shows it.
14:46
Never mind, my bad..
14:59
<alkisg>
muppis: note that booting an NFS client as an LTSP client, will create an aufs mount on top of it, making the "rw" mount effectively "ro"
14:59
I.e. when init=/sbin/init-ltsp
15:00
<muppis>
I noted that and skipped it so far by adding exit 0 to begin of scripts/init-bottom/ltsp
15:01
Now I got partly what I want, nfs rw root without aufs. This is slow as h***.
15:01
Now trying to make readling from nbd and writing to nfs.
15:01
-l
15:02
By replacing tmpfs mount with nfs mount in scripts/init-bottom/nfs
15:02
I meant scripts/init-bottom/ltsp
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15:03
<muppis>
And probably adding an option to choose between them by kernel param.
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15:07
<alkisg>
muppis, you can have an rw nbd root
15:07
or even an rw file, loop-mounted over nfs
15:07
Both of those should be faster than nfs
15:09
<muppis>
Is those easily disabled or enable in cmdlline?
15:09
<alkisg>
sure
15:10
<muppis>
In 12.04?
15:10
<alkisg>
Yes
15:10
nbdroot by default is rw
15:10
<muppis>
Cool.
15:10
<alkisg>
You just need to set it rw on the server, and omit init=/sbin/init-ltsp
15:11
But note that you'll want an ext3/4/btrfs image, not a squashfs one
15:11
btrfs with compression should have the best performance
15:18
<muppis>
I think getting an idea of this.
15:38
Do I take care any special in chroot to use btrfs via nbd?
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17:06
<muppis>
Is it possible that btrfs image is fourth from squashfs image?
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19:17
<muppis>
Does Gnome Shell work correctly in thins or do I need use 2D version?
19:18
<Asterisks>
no reason it shouldn't
19:18
unless their GPU's are THAT crappy
19:19
<muppis>
In fats and locally installed works right, so it shouldn't be. It's long time I've been playing around with ltsp last time.
19:20
And back then 3D effects didn't work.
19:20
<Asterisks>
Same here, to be honest. I looking into ltsp about a year ago. only back in here cause I've got an application for it now
19:21
I'm trying to think of any reason why it wouldn't work, and I can't think of any..
19:26
<muppis>
I just build thin image, so need to setup nvidia and then I see.
19:27
<Asterisks>
how big a system are you setting up?
19:27
just out of curiosity
19:30
<muppis>
Just for my home ritght now, one client. But just fresh up my memory because I think I need upgrade our customer system at work during this summer. That one contains about 30 thin clients.
19:30
<vagrantc>
gnome-3 has issues with some thin client hardware
19:31
<muppis>
vagrantc, any specific to name?
19:31
<vagrantc>
nothing specific, but it's definitely a common issue
19:31
<muppis>
Ok.
19:32
<vagrantc>
any software that requires hardware acceleration *may* have issues on a thinclient
19:32
<muppis>
And it's like a throwing a dice?
19:32
<vagrantc>
depending on the software, it may have fallbacks to software acceleration or whatnot
19:33
muppis: i'm sure there are patterns, but i'm not aware of specifically documenting what models work with what versions of this and that
19:33
<muppis>
Alright.
19:33
<vagrantc>
would be an interesting project
19:34
<muppis>
Definitely.
19:40
Looks like doesn't work with GF119 (Nvidia GT 520)
19:44* alkisg hasn't seen hardware 3d acceleration working in thin clients for ages
19:46
<Asterisks>
gah, I'm trying to decide how I want to present a thin client system to a local school
19:46
I forget what the hardware specs on most of their machines are, so I'm caught between fat or thin clients...
19:47
<muppis>
Present it as it is planned. It runs almost any hw available.
19:47
<Asterisks>
thin clients do, fats don't
19:47
and fats are a much better idea as far as multimedia
19:47
<muppis>
Thins what's it's all about.
19:48
<Asterisks>
=|
19:48
if the hardware can do the work, theres no reason to have it sitting there and putting more work on the server(s)
19:49
especially considering the network bottlenecks
19:49
<vagrantc>
at this point in technological history, i'd recommend fatclients if at all possible
19:49
<alkisg>
Asterisks: from what you've reported, I'm guessing Pentium 4 with 256/512 RAM
19:49
<Asterisks>
Probably
19:49
so, I'm lookinga t thins for most of the system
19:49
<alkisg>
So with 10€ per client you can get them to become fats
19:49
And you can use their local disks for nbd caching
19:50
So as to save money on switches, server etc
19:50
<Asterisks>
10euros, plus opening up 60 computers and adding RAM (assuming it's not something like 2 256mb sticks that I'd have to get rid of both of them)
19:51
<alkisg>
Many boards can get up to 4x256 RAM
19:51
<Asterisks>
true, still two more sticks to add, spending time opening computers that have been sitting for 8+ years
19:52
will it be worth the manpower (me slaving away adding RAM to every computer in a building) for the fat clients
19:52
<vagrantc>
you either have to accept the limitations of thin clients, or use fat clients...
19:52
<muppis>
Is there easy way to run apps at server when using fats? Like more CPU consuming rendering.
19:52
<alkisg>
The networking parts need work too, replacing the switches with gigabit, taking care of flow control etc, for thins
19:52
muppis: remote apps
19:52
The "opposite" of localapps...
19:53
<muppis>
alkisg, thanks.
19:53
<vagrantc>
localapps/remoteapps, while an interesting theory, have a lot of surprises in practical use...
19:53
i'd recommend going all thin or all fat, in general
19:53* alkisg advices teachers here the same thing...
19:54
<Asterisks>
I plan on replacing the backbone with all gigabit switches/cat6
19:54
<vagrantc>
there are always exception, as long as you really know what you're doing
19:54
<Asterisks>
to the clients will be 100mbit
19:54
the only real limitation I'm seeing with thin clients is the multimedia....
19:54
<alkisg>
!flow-control
19:54
<ltsp`>
flow-control: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
19:54
<alkisg>
Asterisks: do read that ^ before buying switches
19:54
I.e. if they're not managed, you'll have issues
19:54
<Asterisks>
no flow control
19:54
gotcha
19:54
<muppis>
And what about loading image from grub and using over wlan? I know wlan is pita, but I'd to benefit more from my notebook.
19:55
<alkisg>
!local-boot
19:55
<ltsp`>
local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
19:55
<Asterisks>
the multimedia is a crappy limitation... but how bad is that really going to be for most things
19:55
<alkisg>
...and a static wlan connection...
19:56
<vagrantc>
Asterisks: it can make many multimedia rich websites unuseable...
19:56
<Asterisks>
vagrantc: like what sites?
19:57
<alkisg>
And libreoffice impress, tuxpaint/tuxtype, gimp... lots of applications
19:57
Even just selecting cells in libreoffice calc needs too much bandwidth, and lags a lot on thin clients...
19:58
<Asterisks>
alkisg: with a laptop, you still have to have a local boot mgr to boot the img, the wifi won't connect to let pxe boot request it
19:58
<alkisg>
local boot manager ==> grub, muppis mentioned that
19:58
pxe ==> not needed in local boot
19:58
<Asterisks>
didn't see that, sorry. missed a message
19:59
And I got you.. I'll see exactly what the hardware specs on the computers are while I'm there, and plan the budget as if we will be upgrading them.
20:05
<vagrantc>
Asterisks: the internet is a big place...
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20:05
<Asterisks>
vagrantc: that it is, though it's relevance to this discussion is debatable.
20:05
<vagrantc>
Asterisks: and the future internet is even bigger ...
20:06
Asterisks: it's one of the most common complaints about thin clients
20:06
Asterisks: that arbitrary websites don't work well because of multimedia
20:06
<Asterisks>
true, sites aren't exactly nice on bandwidth anymore
20:07
<vagrantc>
Asterisks: if you want a comprehensive list, it'll take weeks to compile all the sites people have complained about
20:07
Asterisks: so that's the relevence
20:07
<Asterisks>
true, but is that more because of thin clients themselves or networking problems with their setups
20:08
<vagrantc>
basically, it's a general problem, and getting a list of specific sites isn't actually very helpful
20:08
and it's a constantly changing list...
20:09
Asterisks: it's a challenge of the thin client model
20:09
<Asterisks>
yes, it is.
20:09
i g2g, back in like 20 mins
20:09
<vagrantc>
Asterisks: i'd wager most software these days is being written with assumptions that don't work well in a thin client model
20:10
good luck
20:33
<Asterisks>
I'm back
20:34
How bad is X11 on network bandwidth, anyway?
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20:44
<Asterisks>
hey p
20:44
hey Phantomas*
20:44
<Phantomas>
hello
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