IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 December 2008   (all times are UTC)

00:40
<warren>
there, that seems to be done.
01:14alkisg has joined #ltsp
01:22japerry has quit IRC
01:23japerry has joined #ltsp
03:22alkisg has quit IRC
03:46xtender has joined #ltsp
03:46
<xtender>
hi@all
05:08sepski has joined #ltsp
06:12sepski has quit IRC
06:14sepski has joined #ltsp
06:53xtender has quit IRC
06:57alkisg has joined #ltsp
07:24Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
08:04patrik has joined #ltsp
08:06
<patrik>
Hi, does the graphics card on the server make much difference for perfomance on the workstations?
08:20
<cyberorg>
patrik, no
08:21
<patrik>
ok, cool
08:21
<rjune_>
!seen ogra
08:21
<ltspbot`>
rjune_: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 22 hours, 45 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <ogra> then have a look at /etc/X11/xorg.conf
08:32patrik has quit IRC
09:00alkisg has quit IRC
09:11otavio has quit IRC
09:15ftssrucjgw has joined #ltsp
09:15|Paradox| has quit IRC
09:15ftssrucjgw is now known as |Paradox|
09:39sepski has quit IRC
09:45Sarten-X has quit IRC
10:05toscalix has joined #ltsp
10:07
<warren>
pscheie: http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/k12linux/f10/untested/
10:07alkisg has joined #ltsp
10:25
<EAG>
how good/bad performance should I expect from playing flash movies in firefox really?
10:25
<warren>
EAG: bad.
10:25
<johnny>
potentially really bad on the clients
10:25
<EAG>
I am measuring the bandwidth use in real time and it is around 30 MBit
10:25
<johnny>
it's best to run as a local app
10:25
<EAG>
is there anything I can do about it?
10:25
ok
10:26
:/
10:26
<johnny>
don't blame us :)
10:26
<EAG>
hehe
10:26
no I am not :)
10:27
I should run firefox as a local app then...
10:29
ehm, running apps locally are included somewhere in the documentation, right?
10:29
I cant seem to find it...
10:31
never mind, I found it on ubuntus wiki
10:37OvaKill has joined #ltsp
10:37F-GT has quit IRC
10:42
<johnny>
EAG, the version in jaunty will automatically generate localapps menus for you
10:42
atm it is manual
10:42
<EAG>
okay
10:43
<alkisg>
EAG: how many clients / is your network gigabit / how much CPU usage when you run flash?
10:43
<EAG>
I found some wiki-pages about it. I will probably ask here if I run into trouble :)
10:43
<alkisg>
(in other words, is the network bandwidth really your bottleneck?)
10:43
<EAG>
alkisg: one client only :) but only 100 MBit (I need a better switch...)
10:44
but the network is not a bottleneck
10:44
<alkisg>
So what is? CPU usage = 100%?
10:44
Or is it the graphics card?
10:44
<johnny>
hell.. flash is that bad running locally almost
10:46
<EAG>
I am running a flash-video now... cpu is at 60-80%
10:46
<alkisg>
So you probably won't be able to support more than one client properly... :P
10:46
<EAG>
hehe
10:48
I am using this thin client only to have a silent working environment
10:48
at home
10:48
so its only me using the "server" (which is a p4 2.4 Ghz 2 GB ram)
10:49
<alkisg>
core 2 duo, or single core?
10:49
<EAG>
single core
10:49
old one.. northwood I think
10:49
<alkisg>
Oh, that's why you had that much CPU usage
10:50
And CPU usage on the client?
10:51
<EAG>
that I must check...
10:51
whats best way to do that?
10:52
ctrl-alt-F1 and top?
10:52
<alkisg>
I don't know about the best way, but I run a local xterm in the normal (:7) display
10:52
If you have localapps, run an xterm as a localapp
10:53
<EAG>
ah yes, I havent got that up and running yet
10:53
<alkisg>
I don't know if Ctrl+Alt+F1 will show the correct CPU usage, because the video won't be drawn in the screen if you switch to vt1...
10:53
*tty1...
10:53
<EAG>
anyway, its a sempron 2100+ in the thin client
10:54
alkisg: yep, I was thinking the same
10:54
<alkisg>
And the playback? is it smooth?
10:55
<EAG>
nah it isnt good at all
10:55vvinet has joined #ltsp
10:55
<alkisg>
which graphics card on the client?
10:55
<EAG>
ati x1250
10:56
<alkisg>
LDM_DIRECTX = true or false?
10:56
<EAG>
hmm I removed that line from lts.conf I think
10:57
<alkisg>
So false... it could be a cpu usage problem then
10:57
Decrypting 30 Mbps *and* drawing a non-accelerated video could be enough to torture your sempron...
10:58
<EAG>
I will try and set it to true
10:58
:)
11:11* alkisg wishes a simple RLE compression was used, and a very basic (=low cpu) enryption technique...
11:11
<nubae>
well one can turn encryption off
11:12
<alkisg>
yep, but not RLE compression on :)
11:13* nubae doesn't know what RLE stands for
11:13
<alkisg>
run time length encoding... very basic, e.g. "10 white pixels" instead of "white, white, white, white, white, white, ..."
11:14
Even a 300MHz CPU could be able to handle it
11:15
<nubae>
ah
11:15hanthana has joined #ltsp
11:16
<EAG>
alkisg: I think it got a bit better now
11:16
<alkisg>
How much bandwidth now?
11:16
<EAG>
the interface on the server is using 5-8 MBit
11:16
most of it should be to the thin client
11:17
<alkisg>
!!! I thought it was 30 mbps with LDM_DIRECTX=false, it should be more now!!!
11:17
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.
11:17
<alkisg>
OK mr ltspbot, don't slap me
11:17
Anyway gotta go, good luck
11:17
<EAG>
weird.. iptraf must be brokenthen
11:17
<alkisg>
EAG: it is :)
11:18
<EAG>
thx for the help :)
11:18
<alkisg>
It doesn't count all the traffic, try iptop
11:18
<EAG>
ok
11:18
<alkisg>
sorry, iftop
11:18alkisg has quit IRC
11:24toscalix has quit IRC
11:40Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
12:17
<nubae>
all empathy still needs is a skype plugin, then it would be heaven
12:17
stgraber: I've had no crashes at all
12:19dirigeant has joined #ltsp
12:33
<johnny>
nubae, doubt that will ever happen..
12:34
what is more likely.. is that google will do the same thing as skype..
12:34
via gtalk
12:36
<nubae>
well, thats not really needed, empathy does that already
12:37
but there are skype only people
12:37
and it would be nice to communicate with them
12:37
<johnny>
minus the part about calling real phone numbers
12:37
<nubae>
even if its not voice choat
12:37
<johnny>
that's the reason for skype's existance..
12:37
<nubae>
yeah, current existence, seems a very flaky business model
12:38
<johnny>
sounds like skype isn't making ebay any money
12:38
<nubae>
did u see my screenshots of empathy?
12:38
<johnny>
no
12:38
<nubae>
http://www.nubae.com/telepathy-empathy-and-collaboration
12:38
<johnny>
empathy is still useless for me anyways
12:38
it's too simple
12:38
<nubae>
check it out, it has advanced a lot
12:39
and is really advancing in all the ways we want... its a good project to get involved with
12:40
been using it for a couple days now, and it hasn't crashed on me yet... pdigin used to crash repeatedly
12:40
<johnny>
i have it right here
12:40
it supports very little xmpp features directly in the ui
12:40
<nubae>
from PPA archive?
12:40
<johnny>
does it have service discovery?
12:40
does it have ad-hoc commands (i might have missed that)
12:40
<nubae>
not directly... through another app called soylent
12:40
<johnny>
does it do private xml storage?
12:41
no.. tha'ts not service discovery at all
12:41
that's people discovery
12:41
<nubae>
right now, its just a chat client, but it plays well with the desktop itself
12:41
<johnny>
sure.. but it doesn't play well with my needs
12:41
as a server administrator or power user
12:42
<nubae>
well, chat, video, file sending, audio
12:42
<johnny>
there's no free video implementation anyways
12:42
<nubae>
well, compared to what?
12:42
<johnny>
or free audio
12:42
compared to gajim
12:42
<nubae>
whatcha mean, course there is
12:42
<johnny>
gajim will have jingle soon anyways
12:42
not on the server side
12:42
<nubae>
empathy is not server side
12:42
ejabberd is
12:42
<johnny>
no..
12:42
i mean
12:43
there is no free server side video/audio implementation of jingle
12:43
i know the asterisk implementation should be close..
12:43
<nubae>
pretty sure ejabberd does video/audio too
12:44
<johnny>
uhmm?
12:44
where?
12:44
i'd love to be enlightened
12:45
<nubae>
well coccinella is supposed to use it
12:45
on the client side
12:45
and actually, so does empathy... it runs video/audio over xmpp
12:45
or are u saying jingle is not free?
12:46
<johnny>
there is no free complete server side implementation
12:46
<nubae>
I could be wrong of course, u seem more entrenched in this technology than I
12:47
<johnny>
libjingle is free
12:47
to connect to a non free server
12:47
the spec is not complete tho
12:47
peter saint-andre is going to be finalizing it soon hopefully
12:47
<warren>
Firefox is free, to connect to non-free servers.
12:47
<johnny>
and free ones
12:48
sure.. but i don't expect those to be private
12:48
at least if i had my own jingle service, i could expect it to be relatively private
12:49
i expect the information i post to a website to obviously be known by the entire world
12:49
so.. even if the server isn't free.. the info still is
12:49
<nubae>
how does the xo do video/audio conferencing?
12:49
just adhoc I take it from what u are saying
12:53
ejabberd does to video johnny, empathy uses that to connect
12:53
u don't need anything but ejabberd server side and empathy client side
12:53
<johnny>
to connect to what?
12:54
oh.. that's the p2p part
12:54
that's the one thing i forget about
12:54
technically you don't even need the ejabberd server
12:54
<nubae>
right using xmpp-local
12:54
but for scaling, it works well with ejabberd
12:54
its what the xos use
12:55* johnny slaps forehead
12:55
<johnny>
duh.. p2p
12:56
altho the spec is still unfinalized
12:56
i think that is why gajim does not include their jingle branch
12:56
<nubae>
well, it seems to be quite good...
12:56
<johnny>
sure.. cuz both match :)
12:56
implementation wise
12:57
but. empathy still misses xml storage
12:57
private xml storage
12:57
and bookmarks
12:57
<nubae>
well, u can help implement it
12:57
<johnny>
empathy does things too local
12:57
<nubae>
bookmark sharing? it does that
12:58
nah, very heavily dependend on ejabberd
12:58
have u installed from the PPA?
12:58otavio has joined #ltsp
13:13Sarten-X has joined #ltsp
13:13
<johnny>
nubae, i don't use ubuntu
13:13
<nubae>
really?
13:14
since when?
13:14
<johnny>
i use ubuntu with ltsp
13:14
at work
13:14
at my store
13:14
<nubae>
right, so can't install empathy there?
13:14
<johnny>
it's useless there
13:14
it's an internet cafe.. people aren't trying to work together :)
13:14
they are tryign to use the internet :)
13:15
<nubae>
well, not u can install from source in gentoo I suppose
13:16
<johnny>
no.. i use fedora on this laptop :)
13:36
warren, what's the best way for me to install empathy 2.25 and dependent packages on fedora10 ?
13:36
<warren>
johnny: I have no idea, I've never used empathy
13:37
<johnny>
well.. any related gnome 2.25 packages
13:38
without pulling in the entire stack
13:38
just the telepathy stuff
13:39japerry has quit IRC
13:40
<warren>
johnny: have you tried just building empathy .src.rpm on F10/
13:40
it might just work
13:40
<johnny>
why should i have to do that?
13:41
<warren>
because you're trying to use a newer package than what the distribution has?
13:41Sandra06033 has quit IRC
13:41bobby_C has joined #ltsp
13:41
<johnny>
sure, but perhaps external repositories :) i'm just trying to find one..
13:44
<warren>
looks like they tried to build 2.25.3 in F-11 but it failed
13:44
I'm trying a build of 2.25.3 against F-10 right now
13:45
<johnny>
i'd prefer to use binary packages.. that's why i switched to a binary distro :)
13:45
on gentoo it's usually as easy as renaming the ebuild to a newer version and adjusting a line or two for deps..
13:45
<EAG>
I have a pulseaudio-question...
13:45
I cant get the paddevchoser to connect to other pulseaudio-servers..
13:46
<johnny>
i perhaps should go take care of car maintenance stuff
13:46
<warren>
johnny: that's exactly what i did
13:46
<johnny>
sure.. but i'm looking for an external repo where somebody else does the work
13:46
like that ppa :)
13:46
<warren>
johnny: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=1012446
13:46
<EAG>
is this somehting that needs to be entered manually in some config-file and then ltsp-update-image?
13:46
<johnny>
pulseaudio doesn't enable networking on the server by default
13:47
except to ltsp clients that is
13:47
<warren>
johnny: no idea if this build will succeed, but you can watch this URL
13:47
<johnny>
different mechanism
13:47
<EAG>
I know, but the servers are up n running... and I can connect to them from other "fat clients"
13:47
<johnny>
it also needs deps warren
13:47
<EAG>
so it seems to be related to the pulseaudio on the thinclient
13:47
<johnny>
sure, it only connects to the ltsp server
13:47
<warren>
johnny: ok... then that's more effort than I'm willing to expend
13:48
<johnny>
you'd have ro run padevchooser
13:48
<warren>
johnny: what deps need to be upgraded?
13:48
<johnny>
warren, i didn't expect you to do it
13:48
<warren>
that could be why it didn't succeed in building in F-11 yet
13:48
<johnny>
i was looking for info on where such external repositories :)
13:48
might exist
13:48
something similiar to ppa? :)
13:48
hehe
13:48
<EAG>
yes, I run it and I choose a different server, and then I try to connect again, and I still end up with the ltsp-server
13:48
thats the problem
13:48
<warren>
I doubt anyone cares about this particular package
13:49
<johnny>
the client's pulseaudio has hardcoded connection parameters
13:49
did you run padevchooser as a local app?
13:49
otherwise you're adjusting the wrong thing :)
13:49
unless you're confusing me..
13:49
<EAG>
no, I guess I have to run it as a local app then
13:50
<johnny>
the sound for regular apps should work out of the box
13:50
no changes required
13:50
<EAG>
13:50
also
13:50
but I want to be able to control a different pulseaudio-server from the thin client :)
13:51* warren goes to the drug dealer..
13:51
<johnny>
aka pharmacist
13:52
the google says that nobody does :)
13:52
this makes me sad
13:52
fedora10 needs something like launchpad
13:52
err fedora in general
13:53
open of course..
13:53
i gotta get ready to take the car for an oil change
13:53
bbiab
13:53
<nubae>
bah, the reason to change to using a current distro ;-)
13:57
<jhutchins>
anybody able to help with local USB devices on ltsp5/debian e.5?
13:58Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
14:06
<EAG>
there is no equivalent of ltsp-localapps for 8.04?
14:16sepski has joined #ltsp
14:34
<johnny>
no
14:34
it wasn't even complete then
14:35
plus pulseaudio in general was really bad in 8.04
14:42
<EAG>
ok
14:45johnny has left #ltsp
14:51alkisg has joined #ltsp
14:54
<stgraber>
EAG: /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/ltsp-localapps
14:55
EAG: hmm, sorry I didn'tsee 8.04
14:55
that's for 8.10 and it'll be in /usr/bin in 9.04
15:01
<nubae>
stgraber: did u see my screen shots, re:empathy?
15:05wollw_ has joined #ltsp
15:05brendan0powers has quit IRC
15:11wollw_ has quit IRC
15:12wollw_ has joined #ltsp
15:14hanthana has quit IRC
15:15wollw_ has quit IRC
15:15
<EAG>
stgraber: yup I saw.. I think I will reinstall my server soon anyway, so it will be 8.10 running shortly :)
15:17wollw_ has joined #ltsp
15:27
<warren>
EAG: you might also want to try K12Linux. I made new install media for it yesterday with all updates. Everything is slightly newer than Ubuntu 8.10.
15:27
EAG: http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/k12linux/f10/untested/ admittedly nobody reported back if these images work yet. I'm testing it now.
15:28
<EAG>
warren: thx, I will try it
15:28
<warren>
EAG: pulseaudio and localapps both enabled and working out of the box here
15:28
<EAG>
sounds nice ;)
15:28
<warren>
EAG: oh yeah, using our K12Linux Live, you can try booting the server *and* netboot thin clients entirely off of LiveUSB or LiveDVD
15:29
LiveUSB is recommended
15:29
EAG: so you can boot and test booting thin clients in ~10 minutes. If you want to install to hard drive, maybe 15 minutes total.
15:30
<EAG>
nice :)
15:30
<warren>
https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12linux-devel-list/2008-August/msg00006.html description of the earlier version
15:30
<EAG>
I will definitely try it out
15:30
<warren>
EAG: https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ Use this tool on either Linux or Windows to install the ISO image onto a USB stick and make it bootable.
15:31
you should have at least 2GB space on any USB stick to besafe
15:31
be safe
15:31
<EAG>
ok
15:33
btw, is it possible to get sun rays to work with ltsp?
15:34
<nubae>
sun rays? like solar power?
15:34
<EAG>
no :)
15:34
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Ray
15:35
<nubae>
architecture looks unsupported
15:35
<EAG>
ok :/
16:00gate_keeper_ has joined #ltsp
16:10ogra has quit IRC
16:10ogra has joined #ltsp
16:40alkisg has quit IRC
16:47vagrantc has joined #ltsp
16:47OvaKill has quit IRC
16:47F-GT has joined #ltsp
17:20artista-frustrad has joined #ltsp
17:24artista_frustrad has quit IRC
17:38bobby_C has quit IRC
18:13johnny has joined #ltsp
18:45Sarten-X has quit IRC
18:45vagrantc has quit IRC
18:56johnny has left #ltsp
19:01warren has quit IRC
19:13J45p3r__ has joined #ltsp
19:13J45p3r__ has left #ltsp
19:24warren has joined #ltsp
19:30warren has quit IRC
19:34vagrantc has joined #ltsp
19:41otavio has quit IRC
20:04warren has joined #ltsp
20:42vagrantc has quit IRC
20:44Sarten-X has joined #ltsp
21:26hanthana has joined #ltsp
21:52japerry has joined #ltsp
22:02CaScAdE^1arAway has joined #ltsp
22:07CaScAdE^2arAway has joined #ltsp
22:11johnny has joined #ltsp
22:18alkisg has joined #ltsp
22:20CaScAdE^FarAway has quit IRC
22:23CaScAdE^1arAway has quit IRC
23:02gate_keeper_ has quit IRC
23:04gate_keeper_ has joined #ltsp
23:42alkisg has quit IRC