IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 25 October 2008   (all times are UTC)

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08:26
<powerfox>
Hi! Did some one run configuration "Win-server + linux thin clients"? I've read in the mailing list that somebody has tried it with Samba.
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09:01
<alkisg>
powerfox, what do you mean? how are the clients going to boot?
09:02
<powerfox>
alkisg: mainly if I can do such configuration and what should I read (Samba, etc)
09:03
<alkisg>
So you want windows to be the only server in your setup?
09:03
No Linux server for the thin clients to boot from?
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09:46
<powerfox>
Oops, sorry unfortunately they made me aw. But too late =(
09:47
I will have just windows server
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09:53
<johnny>
why are you here ?
09:53
you need a linux server if you want linux thin clients
09:54
altho.. you you can serve windows to linux thin clients..
09:54
if you had the proper virtual machines, and licenses
09:54
or a completely seperate windows server
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10:13
<powerfox>
johnny: I just need linux thin clients with windows server
10:14
It's great my boss agreed to use linux thin clients. But it can be hard to make my boss agree with linux-server.
10:14
<johnny>
how did you expect that to work?
10:14
you would need to install linux in a virtual machine
10:14
on the windows server
10:15
it's usually better the other way around tho
10:15
windows in a virtual machine in the linux server
10:19
<powerfox>
johnny: it will be slower
10:19
<johnny>
you need linux to serve up the proper files
10:19
<Nubae>
u could try running ltsp under cygwin... would that work?
10:20
<johnny>
is there an nfs server for windows?
10:20
or nbd ?
10:20
<powerfox>
Should be
10:20
<johnny>
if you could serve nbd.. you could probably make the image on ubuntu
10:20
copy it to windows
10:20
but still
10:21
it requires X
10:21
powerfox, you're still gonna need linux
10:21
<Nubae>
yeah, seems stupid to be running thin clients without linux
10:21
<johnny>
powerfox, virtual machine is your only option
10:21
<Nubae>
usually a linux server is an easier sell than linux thin clients
10:21
<johnny>
without adding a seperate physical server
10:21
<powerfox>
Nubae: as I understand I just need the way to send boot image to them
10:22
<johnny>
powerfox, they still boot off the remote linux server and use X and the remote window manager
10:22
<Nubae>
no, then u misunderstand what is meant by thin client
10:22
and client manager, and apps manager
10:22
<powerfox>
johnny: I can use Qt embedded
10:22
<johnny>
then that will not be ltsp
10:22
<Nubae>
u need a full linux distro to run ltsp
10:23
<johnny>
that will be something else popey
10:23
err
10:23
powerfox,
10:23
<powerfox>
Nubae, johny: ok, thanks folks. Have to read documentation.
10:23
I'm new to terminals :)
10:23
<Nubae>
u can do fat clients the way u describe
10:23
that would just serve netbooted terminals
10:23
<powerfox>
They don't have any hdd
10:24
<Nubae>
right... thats why I said netbooted
10:24
<powerfox>
Oh, I thought thin clients are the same as netbooted terminals
10:24
<Nubae>
no, not at all
10:25
first, what are the specs of your terminals?
10:25
<powerfox>
Don't have any now. Will try to ckeck mail archive
10:25
<Nubae>
u'd have to build the image on a linux machine
10:26
and then move the image to windows
10:26
and serve via nbd
10:26
that will work
10:27
but as far as I know, thats new terrain... and not really ltsp at all anymore, other than u use ltsp to build the image
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10:34
<powerfox>
Nubae: got specification. Intel eligrick 2 or somethink like this. Will check intel site. Celeron on the motherboard and the same server but with hdd
10:39
<Nubae>
cant find eligrick 2 on google
10:40
<powerfox>
Nubae: me too. Ok, it's a small motherboard with integrated Celeron. It has DDR-2.
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10:44
<Nubae>
which mhz, how much ram?
10:46
<powerfox>
Nubae: he didn't tell me. Just that it can be a netbooted system (before I came it had windows embedded) and should make 60FPS
10:48
<Nubae>
well, we need to know the ram and cpu speed.... when u turn on the computer, those details should be mentioned, as well as in the bios
10:50
<powerfox>
I don't have client now :) I'm doing research if we can use linux
10:51
<Nubae>
well then find out the exact name of the client
10:51
<powerfox>
It should be Onboard Intel® Mobile Celeron® processor 600MHz with 0K L2 cache.
10:52
AFAIK 256-512 RAM
10:52
<Nubae>
well that will run ok, but not great with netbooted linux
10:53
<powerfox>
I understand it's stupid to ask without specs :(
10:53
But should be faster, than Windows embedded, right?
10:53
<Nubae>
depends what windows
10:53
than vista, sure
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10:55
<powerfox>
ЧЗ
10:55
* XP
10:56
<Nubae>
well, it will be more usable yeah and more secure... but probably not that much faster
10:57
<powerfox>
Nubae: So LTSP can help me right?
10:57
<Nubae>
LTSP means Linux server and linux thin terminals
10:58
but what u are looking for is netbooted clients (if u intend to run a windows server with linux clients)
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10:59
<powerfox>
Nubae: ok, will read both. Thanks a lot for your help :)
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15:48* stgraber is working on auto-generated localapp menu
15:48
<stgraber>
the menu generation scripts seem to work correctly, I just now need to define a configuration file to define what's in the menu
15:51
<johnny>
stgraber, is there a way to hijack what loads to desktop files to prefix them with the app launcher
15:53
<stgraber>
well, in my case I'll just to another menu for localapps, but yes you can overwrite the existing desktop files with some using localapps
15:53
the xdg menu, first apply the system menus, then the ones in .local/ and .config/
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15:53
<stgraber>
so if you have the same entry in the system menu (let's say firefox.desktop) and another in the user's home directory for the same entry, the one from the user will overwrite the system one
15:55
xdg menus are pretty cool stuff
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16:27
<alkisg>
johnny, maybe you could add a /usr/share/mime-info/something.keys file, to specify that all .desktop files open with app-launcher, and in app-launcher check if the app is local or not and run it accordingly
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16:55
<stgraber>
http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f38b6adae
16:55
here you go, menu generator
16:56
I just need to write two ldm rc.d scripts and that'll work
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16:59
<Nubae>
stgraber: nice :-)
17:01
<stgraber>
Nubae: yeah, for now we did it on the application server side which was far from perfect as we also have some NX users that don't want to see the menu.
17:01
Nubae: the only thing I haven't solved yet is when the software is in the chroot but not on the application server. In this case, the icon will be missing ...
17:02
<Nubae>
so depending on the user's group they see or dont see the local app menu?
17:03
<stgraber>
well, that script will run on the thin client, so if boolean_is_true LOCALAPP, the menu will be generated
17:03
and removed on session logout
17:03
<Nubae>
oh, even better
17:03
<stgraber>
so only thin client users with localapps enabled will have it
17:04
and you'll only see the .desktop that are in /etc/ltsp/localapps-menu/ in the chroot
17:04
<Nubae>
ah u did say above it was on the app server to begin with.. didnt read properly
17:06
ltsp is starting to run out of needed implementations... it really seems like it does everything now
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17:52
<vagrantc>
Nubae: i think LTSP's biggest challenge now will be to ensure that Linux's mad push to become a Desktop OS doesn't forget that it's also a networked OS (i.e. the network-transparency of X).
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17:56
<Nubae>
vagrantc: yeah indeed
17:59
hey vagrantc, now that you're here, I've been asked by the sugar team to be part of the "core for the server side development of the Sugar Learning Platform" whatever that means... but its in response to me posting the sugar on ltsp, which they got very excited about, and wanted to me see how to do this with other distros, most notably debian and skoledu....
18:00
as far as I know u are the skoledu, debian guy... and ejabberd (collaboration side) seems to be packaged for debian... what would be the best way to present something like a 'sugar for ltsp' package or script?
18:03
<stgraber>
Nubae: we (Revolution Linux) also have some interest in offering sugar as a desktop environment for our very young LTSP users, be that as a localapp (I think we can do that in most cases) or as an alternative desktop manager on the server side
18:04
(it's on my roadmap for 1.5 (investigating it) and 2.0 (ready for production))
18:04
1.5 being December, 2.0 being March/April
18:05
<Nubae>
ok, cool, I'll keep that in mind, and if u need something specific from sugar, let me know so I can tell the team, as they are now actively trying to integrate it seamlessly in other distros than fedora
18:08
revolution linux is totally ubuntu based right?
18:08
<stgraber>
yeah
18:09
we have some very old Mandriva systems at some customers but they'll be updated to Ubuntu
18:09
though ltsp-cluster isn't really Ubuntu-specific, we keep the packaging separated so another distro may package it
18:11
<vagrantc>
Nubae: there's frequently discussion on debian-edu@lists.debian.org about sugar... there's also a sugar packaging team ... sugar is available in debian ... what sort of things are you wondering?
18:11
<Nubae>
I hope to be able to deploy ltsp-cluster, just need a big enough school, heh
18:12
well this is sugar coupled together with ejabberd, basically it needs some tweaking to work with ltsp
18:12
sugar by itself is kinda useless, it really needs collaboration to be useful
18:12
<vagrantc>
Nubae: i'm not really familiar with sugar and related technologies...
18:13
<stgraber>
Nubae: having sugar + ejabberd installed in the chroot (+ some configuration) should do the trick no ?
18:13
<Nubae>
do u think skoledu would be interested in offering it to primary users?
18:14
stgraber: nah, everything on the server, nothing needed in the chroot
18:14
<vagrantc>
Nubae: debian-edu or skolelinux :)
18:14
<Nubae>
heh, yeah get that confused
18:14
<stgraber>
Nubae: well, in our case we'd like to have it in the chroot, our thin clients are way too powerful to need a server in this case :)
18:14
<Nubae>
right... then its just running a script
18:15
which I've got almost working... for some reason I get an X with a black screen on startup
18:15
not sure whats causing it... but I'll figure it out soon enough
18:15
<stgraber>
Nubae: when starting sugar ? I also had that last time I tried IIRC
18:16
<Nubae>
stgraber: in your case u need ejabberd on the server and sugar in the chroot
18:16
yeah I think the reason is sugar doesnt really have a real session manager
18:16
<stgraber>
anyway, I'll get quite a few new atom-based thin clients/netbooks next week so I'll then have a good test lab :)
18:17
<Nubae>
yeah the new dual core atoms must be cool
18:17
prefect as fat clients
18:17
sugar as thin client technology though, flies... its so much faster than gnome
18:18
<stgraber>
I tried a standard 1.6Ghz + hyperthreading with 1Gig of RAM two weeks ago
18:18
these things are really fast and shouldn't be called thin clients anymore :)
18:19
<vagrantc>
that's a good deal more capable than my laptop :P)
18:19* vagrantc stumbles over emoticons
18:19
<stgraber>
well, it was almost as fast as the server :)
18:20
<vagrantc>
heh
18:20
<stgraber>
(in fact it had more RAM than our test server)
18:22
<Nubae>
lol
18:23
one thing that will be interesting is doing wireless ltsp fat based with sugar
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22:25
<vagrantc>
who's inviting the ltsp lists to twitter?
22:25
and how can we cause them undue harm?
22:26
<stgraber>
don't know, I clicked opt-out but someone did it before me :)
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22:26
<vagrantc>
on both lists?
22:26
opt-out is kind of... nasty.
22:27
i.e. it's exactly the sort of behavior spammers want people to do.
22:27
<stgraber>
yeah
22:28
but well, it's twitter (I checked the URL before clicking) ... still they shouldn't let someone invite xyz@lists.something.com
22:28
(or anything that includes "list" in the url)
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23:11
<sbalneav>
Evening all
23:15
<stgraber>
sbalneav: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f718884da + 2 ldm rc scripts and you're done
23:15
then you get a shiny localapp menu showing when the user is logged on a thin client, and you don't get it if it's on a standard desktop
23:16
<sbalneav>
Glad I added the LDM rc subsystem. Knew it would come in handy
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23:17
<stgraber>
sbalneav: hehe, I already have three things using it :) italc, ltsp-cluster session manager and the menu generator
23:19
<sbalneav>
I need to get the bugfix I came up with pushed through for hardy. Fixes most of the "hung processes after logout", plus does a proper logout so people relying on pam stuff are happy
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23:23
<stgraber>
sbalneav: that fix is already in Intrepid right ?
23:26
<sbalneav>
Not sure. I don't think so.
23:26
<stgraber>
so you'll need a SRU for both
23:48
<johnny>
try saying shru :)
23:48
:)
23:53
<kc8pxy_>
why does ltsp in ubuntu depend on pulseaudio?
23:54
<stgraber>
because ltsp uses pulseaudio for the audio part
23:54
<sbalneav>
Yup
23:54
<kc8pxy_>
ok. looks like I'll have to put this back together in a while
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23:56
<johnny>
kc8pxy_, ubuntu uses pulseaudio in general anyways
23:58
kc8pxy_, i use pulseaudio in gentoo too..
23:58
it is wonderful to be able to play sound out of my computer with the good speakers.. from my laptop
23:58
<kc8pxy_>
johnny: I'm trying to play a few games to demo what linux/ubuntu can do, for a few visitors. and the wine folk say pulseaudio is geting in the way.
23:59
<johnny>
that's their fault for not using a pulse driver :)
23:59
don't they have an esd driver?
23:59
the esd driver should be compatible with pulse