IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 February 2007   (all times are UTC)

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01:00
<krinns>
ogra u there
01:00
cliebow
01:01
any one there
01:01
i have ubuntu with ltsp.2 all good
01:01
but when any thin client user logs off it sees an option of hibernate
01:01
with hibernate the server
01:01
and all goes off sundenly
01:02
in /etc/X11/gdm.conf
01:02
i disable SystemMenu = false but this wont fix it will not shot shutdown option but hibernate is still there
01:03
any idea how i disbale this hiberbnate option
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03:06
<CapRiCoRN^80>
hi
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03:14
<CapRiCoRN^80>
ogra: u there ?
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05:13
<envite>
Hello all from Spain
05:13
Hola a todos desde España
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05:33
<sumpfdotterblume>
hello
05:34
I've Clients with a Radeon Rage 128, and when i start the clients Xorg doesn't start
05:35
I've use ati, r128 and auto but nothing work
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05:38
<sumpfdotterblume>
Now it works
05:38
I've deled the Modules and now it works
05:40
:-)
05:50
<cliebow>
krinns:i dont think i caan help
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06:03
<andrea_>
hello anybody around ?
06:04
i m tryin to help a friend he is using vnc to exports students desktops into teacher dektops ...
06:04
but he has problemes visualizing mplayer windows into those exported desktops ...
06:05
so he was asking me if there is any project dealing with this sort of probelem ...
06:05
btw i m bip ...
06:05
i chas as andrea_ just because i m using somebody else machine right now ;-)
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06:48
<andrea_>
i m tryin to help a friend he is using vnc to exports students desktops into teacher dektops ...
06:48
but he has problemes visualizing mplayer windows into those exported desktops ...
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09:05
<jammcq>
GodFather: HEY !!!
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09:09
<GodFather>
i'm tring to fix this thing
09:10
<jammcq>
something wrong with your "thing" ?
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09:15
<cliebow>
my thing is broken too.
09:15
Godfather:ever thought of reselling the eway clients?
09:15
or nohrtek?
09:16
<GodFather>
cliebow, no haven't do you have a url?
09:17
<jammcq>
etyack has looked at them. we can discuss later today
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09:19
<bricode>
What are people's pricepoints for clients?
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09:24
<cliebow>
ewayco.com
09:25
their clients are like 99 but in quantity 85..it is wirng te money that costs so
09:26
http://www.norhtec.com/products/index.html
09:26
i tried to get one frokm nohrtec..couldnt clear my visa card..ewy.com ended up with 30 bucks for wiring money near 150
09:27
justr seems the price might be more to peoples liking
09:27
some people are using them
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09:46
<bricode>
cliebow: are they decent for horsepower?
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09:46
<bricode>
cliebow: are you using it in the pure thin client setup?
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10:04
<cliebow_>
brocode..never got one...
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10:59
<michel>
hello: i am in africa and i am installing ltsp, now i have seen that the version 1.5 is out, i have experiences with 1.4.2, what can you recommend 1.5 or 1.4.2?
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11:23
<Trolle>
Hi has anyone gotten X-lite or simlar working on your ltsp clients
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12:18
<nofxx>
hi everyone !
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12:31
<nofxx>
ogra: hi... xvidtune works on the client... but only for the session... i dont know how to get the correct values... it shows the same... when you close it
12:32
maybe if I play with the rates on lts.conf? HORZSYNC ? say... take 5 from it?
12:32
HSync 30-81 = offset to the right....... HSync = 25-76?
12:35
what is funny is that the splash screens are perfect..hahaha....
12:37
<cliebow_>
what the diff between using T and S in inittab as the first character n a line?
12:51
<nofxx>
so.. if I specify Hsync, I got a offset... without .. i got 800x600... cant be another config ? X_VIDEORAM ?
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<nofxx>
the onboard gpu not passing the total amount of ram so ltsp gives 800x600 to it ...
12:57
...gonna cry
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13:21
<Maxou>
hi
13:21
how can i configure an account for many people ?
13:21
such a kiosq account
13:22
<pscheie>
you don't, you setup an account for each kiosk
13:22
<Maxou>
humm i have ever done one day
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13:37
<mtnbkr>
can anyone help me with screen scripts? I want to have the thin clients boot to a console login prompt rather than the X login. I have looked a the telnet, startx, shell, rdesktp files in the etc/screen.d directory but am stumped as to how to switch to console logins. is it even possible?
13:39
<nofxx>
there is some kind of time manager... a cronometer on the thin destkop.. and the server get the month hours that user used
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13:50
<sbalneav>
Afternoon all
13:50
<mistik1>
greets
13:51
<Maxou>
no idea ?
13:52
i have done a guest account one day
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13:52
<Maxou>
but i don't remember how ...
13:52
that's for a conference
13:55
<cliebow_>
Itttttttts Scottie
13:57
<joebaker>
ogra Regarding the printing issue we were working on yesterday... /dev/lp0 is showing up after booting, and modules lp and parport_pc are loading but lp_server doesn't show up. Also when I run /usr/lib/ltsp/lp_server -n 9100 -d /dev/lp0 the daemon stays running, but print jobs do not get to the printer. If I add -w (write only) to the daemon line, I can print to the printer. Yeah! I hope this helps in your development
13:59
ogra the other command line parameter I saw for lp_server was -r I added "-r 192.168.0.0/24" to the parameters in addition to -w.
14:03
<jammcq>
sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:03
<sbalneav>
hey hey
14:07
<nofxx>
Ive got a image offset, to the right, setting HSync samsungs rates on lts.conf...on default settings it only gets 800x600...... any help?? using nv driver on a geforce 6150
14:07
<mistik1>
I cant believe that after all this time you guys still do that ;-)
14:07
You must be friends or something ;P
14:07
<jammcq>
heh
14:07
sbalneav: check yer private msgs
14:08
<pscheie>
jammcq: any idea why messages I send to the ltsp mailing list don't show up?
14:08
<mtnbkr>
so am I chasing my tail trying to have console logins on the thin clients rather than X gui logins?
14:08
<jammcq>
pscheie: umm, nope. what is your email addr that you are signed up with?
14:08
mtnbkr: you want char-based logins ?
14:08
<pscheie>
it's...uh, hold on, I think I might know what the problem is
14:09
<mtnbkr>
yes. from there the the users will run freedos in dosemu (which I have gotten to work in an X session so far. now I am tring to get off of the gui log in at all.
14:10
<jammcq>
mtnbkr: do you want to log into a server? or do you just want to run a session on the thin client?
14:11
<mtnbkr>
I want to authenticate to the LTSP server so the user gets his/her home directory etc. the basic a SCREEN_01 = shell will not work. I need to auth to the LTSP server without GUI
14:11
<jammcq>
yeah, that's not really supported by ltsp
14:12
in LTSP, the thin client doesn't have any concept of users
14:12
it's just a conduit, to get you logged into a server
14:12
<mtnbkr>
what about a /bin/login -h ltsp.servername.com as a screen script?
14:15
<jammcq>
I dunno what -h does
14:15
the manpage simply states it's the name of the remote host
14:15
prolly for updating of utmp, so that the 'w' command shows where you came from
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14:18
<pscheie>
jammcq: ok, now I've really ballocksed things up with the mailing list
14:18
email addy has been petre@scheie.homedns.org
14:19
but I changed my identity in Tbird a few weeks ago to peter@...
14:19
<jammcq>
well, mailman isn't gonna like that
14:19
<pscheie>
but since that's not the address I signed up under, mailman was tossing them
14:19
<jammcq>
so, create a new account in mailman
14:20
<pscheie>
tried that, says that address has been banned
14:20
can you unban it?
14:22
<jammcq>
there's no 'peter@....'
14:22
<pscheie>
no peter@scheie.homedns.org?
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14:22
<jammcq>
Nope
14:23
there's only 3 'peter' accounts
14:23
and you aint one of them
14:23
<pscheie>
hokay, I'll try it again
14:24
<jammcq>
on top of that, your test message--ignore made it to the list
14:24
<pscheie>
yeah, it did 'cause I changed my ID in TB back to petre
14:25
but if I change it to peter again, the messages will get blocked
14:25
I suspect that's why my address is banned, too many unauthorized messages
14:26
'cause I was sending them without having signed up the peter address
14:26
I tried changing the address within mailman, but when I try to login under the new address, it fails
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14:27
<pscheie>
and when I try to register peter, it says 'banned, contact the list admin'
14:27
<jammcq>
hmm, dunno why it would be banned. Unless Mike set it up that way
14:28
Mike collins takes care of managing the mailing list
14:28
chupacabra: hey, you around?
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14:29
<jammcq>
i'm not sure where mailman stores banned users, looking now
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14:36
<jammcq>
pscheie: you sure you aren't: peter@panhandle.rr.com ?
14:36
<pscheie>
nope
14:36
rr.com = road runner cable
14:36
I don't like cable cos
14:37
their speed is good, policies are bad
14:37
<jammcq>
i found the ban list, and that is the only peter on the list
14:37
<pscheie>
not that any of that matters to you in this case ;-)
14:38
<jammcq>
ah, FOUND IT :)
14:38
<pscheie>
hmm, so why does it keep saying peter@scheie.homedns.org is banned when I try to sign up?
14:38
oh good
14:38
find it in the 'banned because his messages aren't really worth reading' category?
14:39
<jammcq>
damit. the user interface for this sucks. There's about 200 addresses listed in a scrolling field on a webpage. the fiel only displays about 8 lines at a time. I found your entry, and I removed it. when I clicked 'submit', I got an error
14:44
<pscheie>
I just tried it again, for laughs--same result: banned
14:46
<jammcq>
ok, try it now
14:47
<pscheie>
nope, still says it's banned
14:47
<jammcq>
I need to search through the list again. when I got the error, im' not sure if it removed you or not. I found a few obviously wrong addresses, and removed them. that got me over the error
14:49
ok, got it
14:49
try it now
14:51
<mistik1>
jammcq: If I can get access to that webserver of yours I would setup pastebot there for you
14:51
<pscheie>
nope, same thing
14:51
<jammcq>
pscheie: no way
14:51
maybe it needs to get replicated or something
14:51
<pscheie>
btw, I've just been hitting my back button and then rehitting the submit page
14:51
<jammcq>
mistik1: isn't just a perl cgi script?
14:51
<pscheie>
let me kill my browser and try it
14:51
<jammcq>
k
14:52
<mistik1>
well the latest one if setup has annotations et al and it was lisp based
14:52
and the other is a stand alone server
14:52
<jammcq>
"lisp" based???? people are still writing in lisp ?
14:52
<mistik1>
you could proxy it with apache though
14:52
yessir ;)
14:53
<pscheie>
aargh! still says i'm banned
14:53
<mistik1>
darnit
14:53
lbe keeps bombing on me
14:54
<jammcq>
pscheie: oh, wait, there's ANOTHER list of banned users
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14:54
<pscheie>
isn't mailman fun!
14:58
<jammcq>
pscheie: what makes it really hard, is the list of 200-300 banned addresses isn't sorted in any order, so I have to stare at this tiny window of 8 lines, as I hit the scrollbar
14:59
<mistik1>
can firefox not search it out
14:59
<jammcq>
can you search in a scrolling text box ?
14:59
<mistik1>
donno
15:00
try it out
15:00
<jammcq>
the answer seems to be no
15:00
<mistik1>
:(
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15:01
<mistik1>
jammcq: btw I just ran into the same error Eric did with lbe failing on perl
15:01
<jammcq>
ah, good ole Mozex to the rescue
15:01
<pscheie>
can you highlight the names in the scrollbox while pressing the down arrow key?
15:01
<jammcq>
i've got a firefox plugin that lets me edit a text box using vi
15:02
<mistik1>
slick
15:02
<jammcq>
pscheie: ok, try that
15:02
sbalneav turned me on to that beauty
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15:02
<jammcq>
while I had the list in vi, I sorted it, so that helps for next time
15:02
<pscheie>
Bingo!!!
15:02* mistik1 goes hunting that plugin
15:02* pscheie goes hunting that plugin, too
15:03
<jammcq>
it's called Mozex
15:03
it's for 'External command integration'
15:03
so I set it up to call "xterm -e vim %t" when the Ctrl-Alt-e key is pressed
15:04
<mistik1>
just installed it ;)
15:06
<pscheie>
hmm, can't install it on this machine, only have FF 1.0 on this RH8 box
15:06
can't seem to get newer versions of FF to run
15:07
:-(
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15:11
<PMantis>
jammcq, ping
15:12
<jammcq>
pong
15:17
ogra: ping
15:17
<ogra>
jammcq, pong ?
15:18
<jammcq>
hey, you know that new thin client I gave you?
15:19
<nofxx>
ogra .. hello..... I still with that prob.... I can tune it with xvidtune.. but it shows the same values..... what can I do???
15:19
so I dunno what values to use on lts.conf.... Hsync
15:21
<ogra>
jammcq, yes
15:21
<jammcq>
ogra: have you had a chance to test that with feisty yet, and is it using the vesa driver or the via driver?
15:21* ogra is in a meeting in another channel so please be patient expecting answers :)
15:21
<ogra>
last time i checked it used vesa
15:21
but in an incredibly fast way
15:22
(its the best vesa responiveness i've ever seen i thinbk, even FF scrolls smooth in big pages)
15:23
jammcq, there is a very slight chance for xorg 7.2 in feisty
15:23
<jammcq>
hmm
15:23
does it automatically choose the vesa driver on bootup ?
15:24
<ogra>
yes, and last time i tested the unichrome driver it didnt work
15:24
but thats a while ago
15:24
<jammcq>
hmm
15:24
<ogra>
i can run another test after herd4 released
15:24
<jammcq>
also, which kernel is shipping in feisty?
15:24
<ogra>
2.6.20 currently
15:25
and i guess that will be the final one
15:25
with some more iterations of bugfixes
15:25
<nofxx>
hmm... maybe pulseaudio?
15:27
<jammcq>
ogra: thatnks for the info
15:28
<mistik1>
jammcq: do you remember the post about needing libtermcap to compile lbe?
15:28
I know I know I will do MueKow after this little project is done ;)
15:28
<ogra>
jammcq, btw, i'm pondering an optional tarball installation method for ltsp-build-client
15:29
we have the tarballs, and ltsp-build-client already has the bits for the server side ... that wouols make cross arch a lot easier
15:29
*would
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15:43
<nofxx>
can someone help me gettin apt-get to work on chroot ?? it says no packet found....but I copied my source .list
15:44
and apt-get update .. it just try to connect to the serve... as it dont have connection
15:45
<mistik1>
make sure you have a good /etc/resolv.conf in the chroot
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15:46
<nofxx>
mistik1: yea... no nameserver.... should be it.. tnx
15:47
gonna try to install nvidia-glx ... nv really dont like me
15:48
yee!! updating.... very cool xD
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16:11
<Maxou>
can we make a kiosq account ?
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16:33
<nofxx>
yeehooo !!! all 100% working... .nvidia drivers..... only rockn roll ! tnx everybody ! ! ogra ! ! tnx !! ! !!
16:33
linux terminal super cool ! !
16:35
<GodFather>
mistik1, hi
16:36
<mistik1>
hey man, how goes it
16:36
<GodFather>
mistik1, been good, need your help for a second, but what are you doing now-a-days?
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16:52
<jammcq>
mistik1: hey, you still using irssi ?
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17:23
<mistik1>
eek!
17:30
<cliebow>
amouse
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17:45
<ryness>
howdy!
17:45
i want to convert a lab of old dell dimension desktops into a thin client lab
17:45
<jammcq>
ok
17:45
<ryness>
i have about $6000 to spend and have some Q's about hardware
17:46
firstly i'm wondering if i should upgrade all their NICs to gigabit... and am wondering if there's a recommended NIC?
17:46
<jammcq>
no
17:47
you do NOT need gigabit on the clients
17:47
<ryness>
would it help?
17:47
<jammcq>
not really
17:47
<ryness>
cool
17:47
<jammcq>
don't the dimensions have built in nic ?
17:48
<ryness>
some do, some don't
17:48
as i understand it, so long as the NIC supports PXE we should be "ok" ?
17:50
<jammcq>
yep
17:50
worst case, you boot with an etherboot floppy
17:50
but prety much anything built with built-in nic in the past 6 years or so has pxe
17:53
<ryness>
yea... some of the clients i have to work with don't have built-in nics.
17:53
ok how about video cards, should i upgrade those?
17:54
<jammcq>
depends on what you have
17:54
first thing I'd do is try with what you have
17:54
if you aren't happy with the performance, then figure out what component you'd like to replace
17:54
<ryness>
ah
17:55
problem is there's a change i can use right now for this but may not be there later.
17:56
er, there's a *chunk of change* i can use right now
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17:57
<cliebow_>
ryness: intelkl chipset right?
17:57
<ryness>
yea all the dell mobos are intel... P3 ~800mhz
17:58
<jammcq>
ryness: put the money into a decent server and switch
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17:58
<cliebow_>
with the i810 driver should be fine in 4.2..not sure if autoconfigure will work in ltsp5/ubuntu
17:59
<jammcq>
cliebow_: I'd expect it to work beautifully
17:59
<cliebow_>
i think the last two dell dimension i used "just worked' in ltsp5 with pxe
18:01
<mistik1>
jammcq: btw: yes I still use irssi
18:01
<cliebow_>
ryness: disklessworkstations has prommed niics ready to rock.
18:01
<jammcq>
mistik1: I was trying to figure out how to get the bell to ring on certain events. but, google came to the rescue
18:01
<ryness>
oh?
18:01
<mistik1>
hehe
18:02* cliebow_ shameless plug
18:07
<ryness>
you guys know steve hargadon?
18:07
<jammcq>
yeah
18:07
I know him well
18:07
<ryness>
just got off the phone w/ him
18:08
<jammcq>
ah, cool
18:08
<ryness>
he said whatever i do, DO NOT ask for advice in #ltsp
18:08
<jammcq>
heh
18:08
<ryness>
har har j/k ;)
18:08
anyway
18:08jodell has joined #ltsp
18:08* jammcq moves hargadon into the naughty list
18:09
<cliebow>
hargadon will Sufferr for that!
18:09
we'll shortsheet him next chance we get
18:10
<ryness>
so my next question... does the mobo play any role in all this (assuming i've got an off-board pxe nic)?
18:10
<jammcq>
cliebow: hey, you get a new keyboard or something?
18:10
<ryness>
eg: will the mobo get in the way of the pxe or anything like that?
18:10
<cliebow>
no...shovelling seems to help
18:10
<jammcq>
ryness: well, the mobo is certainly an important component
18:11
<ryness>
yes important.... but i wonder if there's anythign i need to watch out for in designing this proposal.
18:11
<cliebow>
ryness: you "might hasve to disable on-board nic and use a promed card..or floppy
18:11
<ryness>
eg: am i being unrealistic when i imagine turning a bunch of random old computers of varying hardware into thin clients.
18:11
<jammcq>
before you propose anything, i suggest trying one of the clients, make sure it works
18:12
<jodell>
ryness: mobo on client or server?
18:12
<cliebow>
ryness: that is what i do..turn wreckage into thin clients
18:12
<ryness>
jodell: client
18:12
jammcq: problem is the clients aren't all the same
18:12
<jodell>
ryness: problem that I have had is making sure the initramfs or kernel includes needed drivers.
18:13ogra has quit IRC
18:13
<jodell>
ryness: if you have multiple unique clients you "could" get a little bloat
18:13
<ryness>
"bloat" ?
18:13ogra has joined #ltsp
18:14
<cliebow>
ryness: what type dell dinension..model? 466 something?..those to tend to bemy high end clients..i cant try
18:14
<jodell>
bigger kernel image or ramfs image.
18:14
<cliebow>
i Can try one for yotomorrow maybeu
18:14
<jodell>
not a problem typically
18:15
<ryness>
cliebow: most of them are dimension 4100s or thereabouts
18:15
p3/800mhz on average
18:15
<jodell>
Since we are on that topic: is anyone else finding that the need to add moduled to the initramfs
18:16
<cliebow>
Dell recommends Windows Vista™ Home Premium.
18:16
<jodell>
cliebow: are you looking for a fight?
18:16
its been one of those days...
18:17
;-)
18:17
<cliebow>
Integrated Intel 10/100 Ethernet Controller Driver (Intel 82562ET chip set) for built in nic
18:18
<jodell>
the 3 dells I have all support PXE. the oldest is a precision 420.
18:19
<ryness>
i'm having a hard time telling if a nic supports pxe or not
18:19
i disabled all the boot options in the mobo bios, but never get a nic/pxe bios.
18:19
<cliebow>
you/ll just have to look in the bios
18:19
<jammcq>
ryness: did you enable 'Boot from network' ?
18:19
<cliebow>
network boot?
18:20
heh..
18:20
<jammcq>
and do you have a network cable plugged in?
18:20
<jodell>
or "enable onborad boot prom" on teh older dells (should have a PXE loader on it already)
18:22
<ryness>
ah, found it
18:22
MBA UNDI
18:22
whatever that is ;)
18:22
<jammcq>
NBA? it sounds like it has a 3com nic
18:23
I think UNDI should work
18:24
<cliebow>
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/opgx110/en/ug/setupopt.htm
18:24
<ryness>
yea when i enabled MBA UNDI the pxe boot bios appeared
18:25
<cliebow>
you're not out of the woods yet...my two dells booted ok..pxe on some asdd in cards never did
18:26
Managed PC Boot Agent (MBA)
18:26
<jammcq>
it's possible to use MBA
18:26
it requires running a utility called imggen against the kernel
18:27
<cliebow>
Universal Network Device Interface (UNDI).
18:28
<ryness>
cool
18:29
thanks
18:29
changing gears... what OS do you guys run on your thin clients... *any*?
18:30
<jodell>
debian
18:31
<ryness>
any windows?
18:32
<jodell>
I am toying with vm/xen or wine
18:32
<jammcq>
LTSP is running on the thin clients
18:32
the interesting question is what OS is running on the server
18:32
<ryness>
yea thats what i meant
18:33
<jammcq>
I've got Redhat, Debian and Ubuntu out in the field
18:33
<jodell>
jammcq: ltsp 5 (debian etch) effectivly put the os on teh client
18:33
<jammcq>
sure, now with LTSP-5
18:33
<ryness>
am i correct in my understanding that you could just as well point the clients to boot off a windows terminal server?
18:34
<jammcq>
ryness:
18:34
ryness: no
18:34
windows doesn't serve up a copy of windows to load into the clients
18:35
<ryness>
hmm
18:36
guess i have more reading to do :)
18:36
<jodell>
jammcq: so ktsp 5 is not widly used?
18:36
<jammcq>
it's getting there
18:36
the upcoming of Ubuntu feisty is looking really good
18:37
<jodell>
ryness: a thread was started on the ltsp list about usind a vm to run windows and rdesktoping into it
18:37
<ryness>
yes rdesktop'ing
18:37
<jodell>
jammcq: i am debian etch which i believe is using the fiesty packages
18:38
<jammcq>
it's pretty close
18:38
vagrantc and ogra are working very closely on it
18:38
<jodell>
my experiance with ltsp5 is that it is almost idiot proof (heck I did it)
18:38
<cliebow>
me too..
18:38
with a little help
18:39
<jodell>
thinkg I like is that I am esentially using a terminal with a disk in it for a server.
18:39
only problem I am having is that I find syslog requires a restart ro actually log remote
18:41
<jammcq>
that's weird
18:41dm_ has quit IRC
18:41
<jodell>
I even went so far as to put the correct config in <ltst_root>/etc/syslog.conf
18:42
<jammcq>
and simply restarting it fixes it?
18:42
<jodell>
yep.
18:43
in the /etc/init.d/ltsp-client script I added a call to
18:43
restart /etc/init.d/sysklogd restart
18:43
just before the end of the syslog config section
18:44
<jammcq>
have you filed a bug report?
18:44
<jodell>
now I get everythign after the restart bot nothing before
18:44
not yet. I was tripple checking to amke sure I haven;t built anything wrong.
18:44
on my 5th install and I think I am pretty sure it isn't me
18:45
man my typeing is awful. (hence the 5 installs before I reported a bug)
18:50
since we touched the "W" word I need a little advice
18:50
my clients are by no means thin
18:50
AMD AthelonM 3200+ with 512MB ram and 32MB video cards
18:51
<cliebow_>
holy!
18:51
<jodell>
I need to be able to able to run dos mode educational games and some win 95 games
18:51
<cliebow_>
ETHERBOOT OR PXE?
18:52
<jodell>
cliebow: you know I am a fat guy from our last conversation (they were cheaper to build than to buy thin)
18:52
PXE with the on board nic
18:52
each client less than $400 with 17" lcd
18:52
drop 2 sata disk (raid 0 using md) and one becomes your server.
18:53
I jsut didn't see the advantage to a rute thin setup.
18:53
Anywhoo
18:53
<jammcq>
raid 0 ?
18:53
<jodell>
I am thinking wine for das/win emulation
18:54
jammcq for the server os and ltsp boot slices. I don't lie hd failures
18:54
and since disks are "cheap" why not.
18:54
<jammcq>
raid 0 is striping, NOT mirrorin g
18:54
raid 1 is what you want, isn't it?
18:55
<jodell>
too much shoveling (in upstate NY)
18:55
<jammcq>
heh
18:55
<jodell>
raid 1 is what I configed
18:55
<jammcq>
good
18:55
<jodell>
the town "down the road" has 11ft of snow in the last week or so. we got 18" last night
18:56
<jammcq>
wow
18:56
what city is that?
18:56
<jodell>
Oswego NY.
18:56
<jammcq>
where abouts is that?
18:56
<jodell>
about 60 miles (120 KM)
18:56
<jammcq>
from?
18:56
<cliebow_>
lake effect 8~)
18:56
<jodell>
East end of Lake Ontario
18:56
<jammcq>
ah
18:56
<jodell>
big time lake effect.
18:56
<jammcq>
sure
18:57
11ft !!!!!
18:57
<jodell>
You have to see it to believe it, but it is ture
18:57
happens to htme every couple of years.
18:58
so back to the dos/win95 emu thing...
18:58
I am thinking that vm on the client is out as it will need a rw file for each "client" virutal instance
18:59
Vm on the server is out as each client needs its one instance to run apps
19:00
that wouls seem to leave wine.
19:00
(i wonder if I would be able to type if I started drinking? I clearly can't type sober.)
19:01BadMagic has quit IRC
19:01
<jodell>
any other options I am missing?
19:01BadMagic has joined #ltsp
19:01
<jammcq>
jodell: you could have a win2003 server and use rdesktop to attach to it
19:01
<jodell>
I like the windows TS in a vm idea but I abhor the idea of giving microsnot any money
19:02
jammcq wouldn't that required 1 server for each unique desktop? Not big on M$ operations. more of a sun/linux guy by choice
19:02
<jammcq>
no
19:02
w2k3 can support multiple users with TS
19:03
but, I'm also not a fan of sending money to MS
19:03
<jodell>
and I "could" toss that into a vm on the server.....
19:04
what arguements are there againts wine on my "obese" thin clients?
19:05
<jammcq>
wine wouldn't be running on the client, it would be running on the server
19:05
<jodell>
(the list against 2003 is pretty long but we all know that list by heart)
19:06
In my fat world it all run on the client. unless I am missing something
19:06
<jammcq>
well, you'd have alot of work to do, to get it executing on the thin client
19:07
<jodell>
how so? remember ltsp5 on deb Etch, big processor and loads of ram.
19:07
<jammcq>
ah, maybe not so bad then
19:07
<jodell>
i would think just
19:07
apt-get install wine
19:07
<jammcq>
you'd still need the users homedir mounted rw
19:08
<jodell>
homes are nfs using auto fs but the auto user is "copy_dir" to allow auto logins
19:08
that is cryptic. do I need to retype that?
19:08
<jammcq>
no, that's fine
19:09
<cliebow>
sounds lke you need to just double boot the clients...ltsp..or .the other
19:10
<jodell>
"other" ??? and in teh "evil" os?
19:10
<cliebow>
jammcq: can you escape pxe to boot locally somehow?
19:10
<jammcq>
umm
19:11
<cliebow>
jodell: with etherboot you can choose local..or network...hitting the l forces boot to local hd
19:11
<jodell>
what about a "chooser" in the initramfs?
19:11
<cliebow>
too late then..id think
19:11
<jodell>
I like what you are thinking, but was really hoping to avoid a local disk.
19:12
<cliebow>
?
19:12
?/
19:12
your clients are 500 meg..but no hard drive hih
19:12
?
19:13
<jodell>
512MB RAM. no hd. the idea was to make them "kid proof"
19:13
I tossed one across the room and it booted right up. try that with a disk
19:13
<cliebow>
i see..
19:13
<jodell>
this is a day care type environment
19:14
lots of indoor football using anythign that isnt' screwed down
19:15
<cliebow>
i have seen like kiosks where you d/l me..windows os every ti
19:15
Balls
19:15
i have seen like kiosks where you d/l .windows os every time
19:16
<ryness>
i have to run winxp
19:16
<jodell>
ryness: on the thins?
19:17
<ryness>
yea
19:17
<cliebow>
so you are also in a double b oot type situation?
19:17
<ryness>
my hopes are dashed
19:17
<jodell>
ryness: I think you are looking at the 2003 TS solution. Build a 2 cpu box (dual core if at all possible)
19:18
<ryness>
no single boot, pxe.
19:18
<jodell>
run 2003 in vmware and use rdesktop.
19:18
<ryness>
yahp
19:18
<cliebow>
and buy the licenses
19:18
<ryness>
bleh
19:18
<jodell>
sorry amn, but that is all you have.
19:18
<ryness>
the server is no prob... dual woodcrest with 8GB ram
19:18
<jodell>
if you need help with the Vm stuff let me know.
19:19
I use vm for sim city 4 ( I hang my head in shame)
19:19
<ryness>
i can just run a separate box or a vm for the ltsp stuff
19:19JMBarbosa has quit IRC
19:19
<jodell>
do it the other way around. run 2003 in a VM on the ltsp server.
19:20
limint the VM to 1 or 2 cores
19:20
<ryness>
problem is with windows it isn't cut & dry like ubuntu (my sysadmin turned a bunch of imacs into edubuntu thin clients)...
19:20
since we need it to be XP, just rdesktoping to a 2k3 server won't do the trick.
19:20
<jodell>
these are the p3@800?
19:21
<ryness>
yes p3@800... some @500
19:21
128MB ram
19:21
<jodell>
any budget?
19:21
ouch!
19:21
<ryness>
yea i got about $6k
19:22
problem is just figuring out what pieces of the puzzle we need.... citrix, etc it's not as straight forward as ltsp w/ linux.
19:22
<jodell>
look into vm-desktop or parallels. both will suport multiple xp instances with network sound
19:22
VM can run on the server.
19:22
both support linux
19:23
the apple guy will know about parallels.
19:23adrianorg has joined #ltsp
19:24
<jodell>
oh and you can have a single "base image" that is used for the VM boot and overlayed with instance specific "stuff" with the advanced products.
19:24
my "real" job does this to support a couple hundred servers
19:25
what do you ahve in M$ land that will run in XP but NOT in 2003?
19:26
<ryness>
yea i use parallels and vm a lot
19:26
it's not that we have software that needs xp and won't work in 2k3... it's that we have curriculum called "learning windows XP"
19:26
<jodell>
we are esx these days
19:26
<ryness>
:)
19:26
<jodell>
well that kind of blows....
19:27
<ryness>
so students go to start and expect it to look like the book
19:27
<jodell>
silly students.
19:27
what will happen in 3 months when the ciriculum is learning vista?
19:28
<ryness>
i know
19:28
<jodell>
save your $6K and beg for another $500K.
19:28
you will need it to migrate to vista
19:28
<ryness>
i told 'em they're better off learning about the various different OS than just one... but it's grant money.
19:29
<jodell>
your the 3rd person to tell me about grant money issues like this this week.
19:29
I am begining to think grants aren't worth it.
19:29Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
19:31
<jodell>
so it seems to me that we are starting to see a trend inteh need for a mcuh better way to use M$ in a VM in LTSP installs.
19:31
<ryness>
well it's $6k for windows xp thin clients or $6k worth of new Dells
19:31
<jodell>
how many do you need?
19:32
<ryness>
the lab has 24 in it right now, but i'd like to use the server for the entire adult ed center, bout 45 computers in total.
19:32
<jodell>
all "independent" form teh user prespective?
19:33
make that "from the"
19:33
<ryness>
how do you mean?
19:33
<jodell>
no "shared" os, everyone thinks they have their own computer.
19:33
<ryness>
yea... they won't even notice they're using thin clients
19:34
so long as i can do it with XP
19:34
<jodell>
I hate this, but you are the perfect canidate for the vm os (we call it esx in house)
19:35
the idea woudl be this:
19:35
install esx on the server, create a VM for ltsp
19:35
then create multiple VM for XP
19:36
<dan__t>
and quadruple-up on RAM and CPU
19:36
;)
19:36
<ryness>
a separate vm for each thin client?
19:36
that's whack yo ;)
19:36
<dan__t>
Indeed, sir.
19:36
<jodell>
thin boot the client with LTSP running the vm console to see the vm
19:36
not sure that actually save anything
19:37
<ryness>
i would need 16GB of ram
19:37
<dan__t>
What's the issue at hand? Sorry, I just sat down
19:38
<jodell>
128M * n + 258M (tlsp) + 512 (esx)
19:38
<cliebow_>
seems like you should be looking at local installs and "deep freeze" or something..
19:38
<ryness>
dan: i have $6k and need to turn 40 random old Dells into thin clients running winXP.
19:38
<dan__t>
oh, running XP eh
19:38
<ryness>
yeh
19:38
<dan__t>
that's a tall order.
19:38
<jodell>
got to agree with cliebow on this one.
19:38
<dan__t>
but in that case, I see where jodell is coming from.
19:39
Well, let's look at it this way? What requires XP?
19:39
Just throwing out options, not starting a political debate.
19:39
<jodell>
Nope, you should look at the vm solution.
19:39
<ryness>
the curriculum they're teaching requires XP.
19:39
<dan__t>
Ahh.
19:39
<jodell>
tell him the name ;-)
19:39
<dan__t>
It can't be wine'd or anything?
19:39
heh
19:39
"Windows XP"
19:40
<ryness>
yea pretty much... actually part one of the course is learning XP, part two is learning office 2k3.
19:40
<jodell>
for $6K you could build 2 servers.
19:41
<dan__t>
er, does vmware not make their player able to boot off of media in the traditional sense?
19:41
<jodell>
VM "might" give you the esx package at a deep discount
19:41
<ryness>
the rdesktop option *may* work, if i can get w2k3 to look close enough to xp.
19:41
i'm not interested in managing 40 or so VMs :)
19:41
<dan__t>
No, they'd be images.
19:42
<jodell>
you don't you manage 1 vm image and 40 instaces.
19:42
<dan__t>
I don't know, I may just be talking shit, I haven't played with the other VMware products enough to be any help in this conversation ;)
19:42
Just trying to help you consider options.
19:42
<ryness>
dan: i appreciate it! :)
19:43
jodell: with vmware each image is a separate vm, with it's own unique name and what-not.
19:43
<jodell>
ryness: you use the vm-server package right?
19:43
<dan__t>
I do.
19:43
If that matters any heh
19:44
<ryness>
eg: 40 VMs getting windows updates, 40 vms to push software out to, 40 vms with separate user profiles on them, etc.
19:44
yea we use vmware server on both dapper and w2k3 servers.
19:44
<jodell>
vm server is limited in function.
19:44
it does NOT support the esx overlay
19:44
<ryness>
ahhh
19:44
<jodell>
I have 1 image for 200 vm
19:44
I only update the 1 image.
19:45
<ryness>
ok now i'm interested
19:45
<jodell>
I cycle the VM and everyone gets the updates
19:45
<ryness>
esx = spendy?
19:45
<jodell>
it is like a ltsp on a single box with the ability to move vm over to other machines in realtime
19:46
normally.
19:46
<dan__t>
but you're an edu or something, right?
19:46
<jodell>
It is worth asking.
19:46
<ryness>
yes edu
19:46
<dan__t>
Don't they have gov't or edu discounts etc etc.
19:46
They seem reasonable in that manner.
19:46
<jodell>
Heck I get a discount
19:46
<ryness>
vmware esx == VI3 ?
19:47
<jodell>
hang on...
19:48
<ryness>
looks like $1000 for the "starter" edition
19:48
only up to 8GB of ram
19:48
the standard edition is $3750
19:49cliebow has quit IRC
19:49
<dan__t>
what about the "edu" edition heheh
19:49
<ryness>
have to contact them about that i guess
19:49
<jodell>
You could consider 2 startes on 2 mid scale servers
19:49
PITA, but it woudl help.
19:49
<ryness>
garrr my $6k suddenly doesn't seem like that much money for this project :)
19:50
i could just give them kde with a very windowsy theme ;)
19:50
<jodell>
ryness: let me think about it for a little bit. there has to be a way to do this.
19:50
<ryness>
jodell i appreciate that! :)
19:51
<dan__t>
Good luck dood.
19:51
<ryness>
hehe thanks
19:51
<jodell>
So ltsp folks, is ryness the exception for us?
19:51
<cliebow_>
in whAT way?
19:52
<jodell>
I don't have his level of need, but i do need some win compatability
19:52
needing to run M$ crap
19:52
<ryness>
if i can get this recipe worked out, i'll have number of other clients interested
19:52
<dan__t>
Might be interesting.
19:52
<cliebow_>
we are a ture mixed environment..ibooks up the wazoo..win desktops..thin clients
19:52
<ryness>
so if anyone is interested in flying out to bush alaska to turn ancient crap into modern goodness, let me know ;)
19:53
<jodell>
sold. where is my bunk
19:53
<dan__t>
haha.
19:53
only if you take me fishing.
19:53
i love to fish.
19:53
<ryness>
lots of fish
19:53
<jodell>
Hell I am already neck deep in snow ;-)
19:53
<dan__t>
mmm, salmon
19:53
I just went fishing in the snow this past wknd
19:53
I love that.
19:54
<cliebow_>
seen more than my share of winter fishing..
19:54
<dan__t>
all we have down here is trout and carfish :/
19:54
<cliebow_>
keeping a boat in the winter sucks
19:54
<jodell>
ryness are all the sytems 8100's?
19:55
<ryness>
jodell... most of them are 4100s
19:55
<jodell>
sorry that was past the end of the scroll buffer....
19:56
<dan__t>
brb, smoke break...
19:58
<jodell>
inspiron?
19:58
<ryness>
dimension
20:01
<jodell>
pc133 sdram... 2 slots. x 40 sytems
20:01
so if you didn't notice I am a "fat client" guy.
20:02
I am going to see if I cant get VM-server running on one of my fats.
20:02
<ryness>
yea i read you said your clients were phat
20:02
<jodell>
and I wanted them fatter.
20:02
I jsut don't like disks.
20:03
<ryness>
well i gotta go buy the wifey some flowers... thanks for all the attention everyone!.... i'll be lurking in his chan much more often now :)
20:03
<jodell>
the problem that I see is that Vm will want the files to be rw, not ro.
20:03
<ryness>
er, *this chan
20:04
*** Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )
20:04
irc has come a long way ;)
20:04
/msg jodell my email is ryness@gmail.com if you have any epiphanies :)
20:05
<jodell>
will do.
20:05
<cbpage>
my desktop at work's a 4100. would like 1ghz ram, firefox hesitates at times... other than that damn good especially for a 6yr old box
20:05
*1GB
20:06
having a radeon 9550 and a dell 2007wfp helps.
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20:07
<jodell>
ram fixes everything
20:09
<cbpage>
yeah - it's fine with 512 and debian
20:09
<dan__t>
I'm running Gnome on 256M
20:09
quite nicely
20:10
<cbpage>
i'm also spoiled
20:10
<dan__t>
'cept i have machines in no particular order or style just completely lock up.
20:10
lock up hard.
20:10
I don't understand it.
20:10
<cbpage>
ouch
20:10
what kinda machines?
20:10
<dan__t>
They were running XP and Linux with full installs prior to moving to LTSP, without incident
20:10
Shitcan P3 550's w/256M RAM
20:10
<cbpage>
weird - network issues?
20:10
<dan__t>
I suspect.
20:10
Going to swap out with some eepro100's tomorrow AM
20:11
<jodell>
ltsp5?
20:12
<dan__t>
er, 4
20:13
I don't know why I started with 4, honestly. I think that was all that was available when i started?
20:13
idunno
20:13
<jodell>
i've seen oddities on ltsp5 using debian etch. not that drastic, but somethign wierd in nfs land. the occasional "nfs server not responding"
20:14
recovers in a few seconds.
20:14
<dan__t>
Yeah, I got that a LOT with a few machines.
20:15
I think I ended up throwing option option-129 "MOPTS=nolock,ro,wsize=2048,rsize=2048"; at it
20:15
and most all of that went away, except for the occasional client not obeying
20:16
But I can pretty well correlate that to the ecxact same time someone is playing a Flash game, or doing really image intensive stuff etc etc.
20:16
i.e. saturation of bandwidth in the switch
20:16
<cbpage>
*nod*
20:16
<jodell>
100MB?
20:16
<dan__t>
*reluctant sigh* yes
20:16
<cbpage>
and not a hub i hope.
20:17
<jodell>
so they are on teh same server?
20:17
<dan__t>
with 2x bonded 100mbit cards in the server.
20:17
<jodell>
I am SOOOOO spoiled
20:17
<dan__t>
The bonding in itself sometimes has issues, too.
20:17
haha I bet.
20:17
I'd be happy with a 100mbit switch with 2x gbit uplinks
20:17
But, alas....
20:18
<jodell>
the netgear 1GB 24 port is $230 on newegg.
20:18
<dan__t>
I need 48, at least. But even with 2x, that's not all that bad
20:18
I was looking at 48ports for around $700
20:18
<jodell>
netgear 1GB card $30
20:18
<dan__t>
Overall its a complete success.
20:18
I just don't like those machines locking up like that.
20:19
Neither does the boss... heh
20:19
<cbpage>
yeah
20:19
<jodell>
I always tell them "shoot the guy playing flash"
20:19
it is typically the boss
20:19
<dan__t>
Yeah, tht's what i do haha
20:19
<cbpage>
perhaps instead of channel bonding you could have two seperate networks
20:19
this assumes you have two 24-port switches or somesuch though
20:19
<jodell>
that is a great idea.
20:19
<dan__t>
Hm, that's not bad.
20:20
<jodell>
2x24 port + 2xnic and you are only at $520
20:20
leave the 100 for the connection to the net.
20:20
<cbpage>
i was thinking 100-based stuff... dual gigabit is overkill *unless* you have 64-bit pci or pci-e
20:21
the computer can barely stuff one
20:21
<dan__t>
i have 2x PCIE on this mobo
20:21
Decent little mobo
20:22
Core 2 Duo chip, E6600 I think.
20:22
2x 80G SATA RAID1
20:22
It works quite well.
20:22
<cbpage>
nice
20:22
<dan__t>
I am supporting 20 clients, with a bit of room to spare
20:22
<cbpage>
ok, two giga it is
20:24
1x PCI-E is just enough to handle a 2-port gigabit card. dunno if anyone's made a chip like that though
20:24
<dan__t>
Alright, well
20:24
I need to take off here
20:24
<cbpage>
cya dan
20:24
good luck
20:25
<dan__t>
Thanks for the help.
20:25
<cbpage>
i'd go with two gigabit ports and 2 24-port 10/100 + 2 gigabit switches
20:25
yw :)
20:26
(can get the latter for ~$140 at 'egg)
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20:40
<jammcq>
PMantis: hey
20:44
<PMantis>
sup jammcq
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20:46
<mistik1>
bah
20:46
I'm too rusty to add all of what I need to lbe
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20:46
<mistik1>
I'll just try to add what I need from ltsp to MueKow
20:46
This should be even more interesting
20:50
Time to start on writing ebuilds for the ltsp specific programs
20:50
<jammcq>
talk to dberkholtz, he's done some of the work
20:50
<mistik1>
I talked to him
20:51
I cant remember where his site is now but I took a look at what he had there
20:51
I dont know that I would use that method at all, I see no reason for that build system when we are talking about gentoo
20:52
I could just use portage
20:52
<jammcq>
what was he using?
20:52
<mistik1>
emerge, or for further customizations catalyst or even GNAP
20:53
He's using the common ltsp build system that I believe debian is using
20:53
<jammcq>
ah, the pluggable thing?
20:53
<mistik1>
yea
20:53
<jammcq>
you'll want that
20:53
<mistik1>
All i bloody need in gentoo and some ebuilds for the ltsp specific apps
20:54
why would I need it?
20:54
Curious
20:54
<jammcq>
oook, but I think you'll want it
20:54
talk to vagrantc about it, it's some pretty good stuff
20:54
and we're enouraging ALL integraters of ltsp to use it
20:55
<mistik1>
nm mind me, i'll a little grumpy right now
20:55
<jammcq>
me too :)
20:55
<mistik1>
where does this thing live again
20:55
<jammcq>
dunno
20:55
<mistik1>
oh yea, launchpad
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21:09* PMantis not sure he wants to talk to a grumpy jammcq
21:10
<jodell>
for anyone who was paying attention to the vm on teh thin client idea for winXP....
21:11
don't do it with out a disk ont eh client.
21:11
I got the expected results. bad perf and congessted network.
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