IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 25 May 2007   (all times are UTC)

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01:03
<Nikopoika>
has someone installed ltsp 5 in debian using this howto: http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-discuss&m=117597535215335&w=2
01:06
same howto seems to be located in ltsp wiki too: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Debian#LTSP_5_and_Debian_Etch
01:07
still no sound...
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01:22
<Nikopoika>
does edubuntu have some sort of click and point install-wizard in ltsp
01:22
sry for my bad english
01:25
<sep>
Nikopoika, debian etch have ltsp packages.
01:26
install the ltsp-server package and read in /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/*
01:30
Nikopoika, sorry i didn't notice that it used those packages... just ignore me :)
01:36
<Nikopoika>
heh, ok :D
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05:26
<nf1>
Hi, somebody got experience with Via CLE266 video and LTSP?
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07:22
<mhterres>
morning
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07:28
<Rimas>
Hi! How can I tell dhcpd to listen on eth0 interface and not ra1?
07:28
<ogra-classmate>
which distro ?
07:29
<Rimas>
ubuntu 7.04 (amd64)
07:32
I've checked syslog and it was some actinity toward ra1. But my thin client is connected to eth0
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07:40
<nobios>
the dhpcd listen to the interface that it's configured in its dhcpd.conf
07:41
example: subnet 192.168.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
07:41
and it will listen to the interface that uses: 192.168.0.X
07:41
<vagrantc>
Rimas: you could additionally configure it in /etc/default/dhcp3-server
07:42
Rimas: well, restrict which interfaces it listens on
07:42
Rimas: you'll still have to configure your networking properly and /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf properly
07:44
<Rimas>
My PC is also in lical network and it seems to have also 192.168.0.x address
07:45
so ra1 gets it's address from another dhcp-server
07:45
should I slecify anothe subnet range?
07:45
<vagrantc>
yes
07:46
and then configure your networking and dhcpd.conf to the new network
07:46
<nobios>
it's better to have another class in the interface that will run ltsp. Maybe 10.0.0.X or 192.168.1.X
07:48
<Rimas>
networking -- it's eth0 configuration? Is it correct? or should I edit some conf-files?
07:48
I think I understand the issue.. I'll try this
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07:49
<Rimas>
thanks a lot
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08:54
<ogra-classmate>
!s
08:54
<ltspbot`>
ogra-classmate: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:54
<sbalneav>
Morning!
08:54
arrrrgh
08:54
I'm so close.
08:54
<ogra-classmate>
??
08:54
<sbalneav>
So, In one day, I've....
08:55
re-written LDM in C, enough that...
08:55
<cliebow_>
yes...............
08:55
<sbalneav>
1) It creates the xauth key
08:55
2) Launches X
08:55
3) Launches a greeter
08:55
4) Gets the userid and password
08:56* vagrantc says on behalf of ogra "you don't even need to create the xauth key"
08:56
<sbalneav>
I'm stuck on the ssh bit. I'm forking off the ssh, and trying to pipe stdin and stdout to the parent, but it doesn't seem to be working.
08:56
<vagrantc>
except we will
08:56
<ogra-classmate>
any speedups you notice between 1 and 3?
08:56
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: yeah, ssh is very particular about that
08:57
<sbalneav>
Not sure if it's something SSH_ASKPASS related, or just something I'm doing wrong.
08:57
ogra-classmate: it's instantaneous
08:57
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: you have to run without a controlling tty
08:57
<ogra-classmate>
sbalneav: tewsted in the e2300 ?
08:57
*tested
08:57
<sbalneav>
no, but tested on a 300 mhz box
08:57
so, slow.
08:58
<vagrantc>
hey
08:58
<sbalneav>
there's a definite speedup.
08:58
<ogra-classmate>
zaz
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08:58
<ogra-classmate>
err
08:58
yay
08:58* ogra-classmate curses the keyboard layout
08:58
<vagrantc>
ogra-classmate: you and your y/z issues
08:58
<sbalneav>
Who's a C maven who may be able to give me a hand?
08:59
<ogra-classmate>
how can you guys type with all these flipped keys ALL YOUR LIFE !
08:59
<sbalneav>
And more to the point, how to I fork something without a controlling tty, if that's my problem? :)
08:59
<vagrantc>
i can type 80 wpm on a keyboard designed to slow me down!
08:59
sbalneav: if you run it from init
08:59
<ogra-classmate>
me too ... but dont ask about the words :)
09:00
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: or from "daemon"
09:00
<sbalneav>
it is being run from init.
09:00
it's being started in the screen script.
09:00
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: from the screen script?
09:00
<sbalneav>
yeah
09:00
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: the screen script feeds it a controlling tty
09:00
sbalneav: try just running it in the screen script directly
09:00
er
09:01
not with a screen script, but in the init script directly
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09:01
<sbalneav>
Well, how does something like expect handle this?
09:01
That's what I need: an expect-like functionality.
09:02
<vagrantc>
ssh does it that way for security purposes.
09:02
there are good reasons to do it that way.
09:02
they make it very hard to steal the password.
09:02
if you start messing with expect, i'd question the security.
09:03
<sbalneav>
but we need to script somehow, seeing how:
09:04
We're either going to be asked a password, or:
09:04
<ogra-classmate>
http://osdir.com/ml/network.openssh.devel/2003-03/msg00066.html
09:04
how about that one
09:04
<vagrantc>
if we properly handle SSH_ASKPASS, it will work.
09:04
<sbalneav>
if the password's expired, we're going to have to prompt for a new password, and supply it.
09:05
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: run it without a controlling tty and use a proper ssh-askpass implementation
09:05
<ogra-classmate>
i doubt that will work
09:05
ssh's pam setup doesnt handle update passwords afaik
09:06
<sbalneav>
Right.
09:06
that's why we need to actually control it via stdin and stdout.
09:06
<ogra-classmate>
did you have a look at the mail
09:07
there is a detach from tty function
09:09
<sbalneav>
Looking at it
09:12
<vagrantc>
ogra-classmate: are you just assuming ssh-askpass won't work with password expiry, or do you have information suggesting it won't?
09:13
<ogra-classmate>
i have looked at the pam scripts ... bedyond thats its just a guess, i didnt actively try it out
09:14
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: I can't get it to work.
09:14
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: ok.
09:16
<sbalneav>
Man, this is frustrating.
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09:17
<ogra-classmate>
YEAH, SSH FIDDLING IN c IS NO FUN
09:17
OOPS
09:17
sorrz
09:17
gah
09:17
<sbalneav>
Anyone within Ubuntu-dev who might be able to help me with this?
09:17
<ogra-classmate>
cjwqatson ? as ssh expert
09:18
<sbalneav>
k
09:18
<ogra-classmate>
dunno who ever wrote an ssh wrapper
09:18
pitti probably
09:18
<bricode>
What did you guys find out after profiling LTSP in Seville?
09:18
<ogra-classmate>
its slow
09:18
and should be faster
09:18
:)
09:19
<bricode>
I knew that much.
09:19
<vagrantc>
yeah, but now we *really* know it.
09:19
<ogra-classmate>
heh
09:19
<bricode>
But do you know *why*?
09:19
<ogra-classmate>
well, we expected a major nfs issue which we couldnt prove
09:20
and we expected a major kernel difference which turned out during measuring that the 4.2 kernel is booting 11 secs faster than the ubuntu kernel
09:20
not much of a difference
09:20
<vagrantc>
bricode: honestly, if we actually made significant progress over the course of working on it several days, we would probably mention something like "yes, this is why"
09:20
<ogra-classmate>
and we looked at the initramfs implementation 4.2 used
09:21
to identify the differences
09:21
<vagrantc>
we tried lots of things, but came up with little
09:22
it was frustrating to face defeat day after day with all of us there to brainstorm ideas and other talented people around.
09:23
<ogra-classmate>
we found plenty of things we will fix and speedup for gutsy though
09:23
but not the major thing we expected to find
09:23
<bricode>
That's good.
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09:24
<ogra-classmate>
it will be incredibly fast on quite recent HW but the slowdowns on things like the e2300 were not identified so there probably wont change much
09:26
<vagrantc>
there are some thin-clients out there only %25 more expensive with 4 times the processor power
09:27
<ogra-classmate>
right
09:27
but jammcq insisted in getting the 2300 to work
09:27
and he is right
09:27
sadly
09:28
it will be usable with static xorg.conf and the udev changes, but still wont be fast
09:28
<vagrantc>
when i get to freegeek, i'm going to find similar speed hardware and see if it's something specific to the e2300
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09:28
<ogra-classmate>
well, moquist has k6-400's thatb boot very fast\
09:28
<vagrantc>
yeah, but that's a much faster processor
09:29
<sbalneav>
I wonder if I can close /dev/tty, and re-open it myself rw
09:29
can you do that?
09:29
<ogra-classmate>
its the kind of the CPU, not the speed
09:29
you are root, why shouldnt you
09:29
<vagrantc>
that's a good operating philosophy :)
09:30
<ogra-classmate>
hee
09:30
h
09:31* vagrantc needs to stop being sick
09:34* vagrantc wonders why we don't just write a GUI frontend to sdm
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09:35
<vagrantc>
ldm isn't really doing anything fancy
09:35
it's just essentially building a commandline from some environment variables
09:35
<sbalneav>
does sdm handle password expiry?
09:35
<vagrantc>
never tried
09:35
it just uses ssh-askpass
09:36
<sbalneav>
try it.
09:36
<vagrantc>
so, password expiry works on the commandline?
09:37
<sbalneav>
yup. If you ssh into a box with an expired password, it will ask you for a new one.
09:37
if you do it with something that needs ssh-askpass, it just fails.
09:37
<vagrantc>
ok.
09:37
just wanted to make sure i understand what's broken
09:38
<sbalneav>
yeah, if ssh-askpass worked, this would be much easier.
09:39* vagrantc wonders what it would take to get ssh-askpass to work
09:39
<vagrantc>
rather than re-implementing ssh-askpass like functionality
09:40
it's probably challenging...
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10:05
<rjune-isis>
Gad1: !
10:06
<PMantis>
rjune!
10:06
<rjune-isis>
PMantis: !
10:06
<cliebow_>
PMantis!
10:06
<PMantis>
HEH
10:06
Hmmm caps
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10:07* PMantis is becoming intimate with DNS servers lately.
10:07
<Gad1>
rjune!!!!!
10:08
where you been hiding?
10:08
<cliebow_>
cliebow is intimate with ibooks..strewn all over
10:08
<Gad1>
cliebow_: no tongue, please
10:08
<cliebow_>
heh..
10:09* cliebow_ cliebow looks for bigger hammer
10:09
<cliebow_>
gd aluminun allen screws
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10:19* cliebow_ cliebow goes for boat ride..
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10:23
<rjune-isis>
Gad1: been working
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10:40
<rjune-isis>
Gad1: I'm building routers again now though
10:40
not working at the school anymore
10:41
<Gad1>
rjune-isis: building routers?
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10:53
<PMantis>
rjune-isis: No school??
10:54
wow
11:01
<sbalneav>
arrgh, worser and worser.
11:03
so, if you do a "ssh -l user somehost /etc/X11/xsession", and your password's expired, it won't ask you for a new password, it just fails, becayse the new password bit's handled by pam on the remote end.
11:03
<PMantis>
That's icky
11:04
<sbalneav>
so, in order to handle password expiry, we'll have to do an "ssh -l somename host" plain, test to see if it works, if the password's expired, reset it,
11:04
<ogra-classmate>
sbalneav: thats what i was saying all the time
11:04
<sbalneav>
ok
11:04
<ogra-classmate>
we need to iterate over several ssh client instances ... sadly
11:05
<sbalneav>
So are you ok with the solution of loggining in to test/reset, then respawning the ssh for the x session.
11:05
?
11:05
<ogra-classmate>
yes, thats what i was saying the last three days in here being lynched by you guys
11:05
<sbalneav>
You weren't being lynched by me.
11:05
<ogra-classmate>
well, by vagrand jammcq :)
11:05
<PMantis>
Be nice to ogra! :)
11:06
<ogra-classmate>
*vagrantc
11:06
<sbalneav>
I'm ALWAYS the nice one :)
11:06
ok, so, that's what I'll do then.
11:06
<ogra-classmate>
right, :)
11:07
<sbalneav>
It We'll lose a couple of seconds, but the speed increase brought on by not using python will more than make up for it. It'll still be a net win.
11:07
<ogra-classmate>
right
11:07
vagrant and jammcq were concedrned by the ressources a second ssh client could eat
11:08
i think thats marginal thoough
11:08
<sbalneav>
Well, you'll start an ssh to test login/expiry, then close it, and start the "real" one.
11:08
so there shouldn't be any extra memory, etc. used up
11:08
just a little extra time.
11:09
<ogra-classmate>
well, my idea was to start an ssh connection without starting the Xsession
11:09
and do everything from then on through the socket instead
11:09
<sbalneav>
That would work too.
11:09
<PMantis>
Boy, LTSP has changed quite a bit since I first started hanging around here...
11:09
<ogra-classmate>
we could get rid of the longish ssh command
11:10
<sbalneav>
Just wondering how we'd track the end of the session with that, but it's worth a shot.
11:10
ah.
11:10
<ogra-classmate>
and start stuff piece by piece through the socket... that will ease modularization
11:10
<sbalneav>
kill $PPID? maybe?
11:10
<ogra-classmate>
yeah
11:10
that should work
11:10* sbalneav fiddles
11:11
<ogra-classmate>
thats what we use now iirc
11:11
<sbalneav>
I got 3 hours sleep last night, this was bugging me so much. :)
11:11
<ogra-classmate>
oh man
11:12
i had a similar night though with the classmate wlan driver (which works now even without NM)
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12:04
<rjune-isis>
Gad1: yup, http://www.imagestream.com
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12:44
<moquist>
jammcq: how hard would it be for me to get a 4.2 kernel working in an edubuntu chroot? (I would guess thsi has been tried before...)
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12:46
<ogra-classmate>
moquist: you only gain 11secs
12:47
<moquist>
ogra-classmate: But maybe more on this laptop. :)
12:47
<ogra-classmate>
its not the kernel, its the initramfs that makes the difference
12:47
i tried both kernels with the ubuntu initramfs and all i found there was that the kernel is done 11secs earlier before it mounts the initramfs
12:48
we will have to look at the 4.2 scripts and check if we can make use of anything in there to gean a real speedup
12:49
i will look into that very deeply once i got the classmate stuff done
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12:49
<moquist>
ogra-classmate: But it seems like this laptop has some issue with *something* that's just slowing it down overall. It's running slower than a machine with half the RAM and less than half the Mhz. 8-\ And it boots a 4.2 kernel in <35 seconds.
12:49
<petre>
afternoon all
12:49
<ogra-classmate>
its high prio on my list
12:49
<moquist>
petre: HI!
12:49
ogra-classmate: cool
12:50
<ogra-classmate>
hmm
12:50
<petre>
moquist: hey there
12:50
<ogra-classmate>
moquist: i'm not sure the 4.2 kernel uses preemption
12:50
<moquist>
ogra-classmate: at this point I'm just throwing lots of stuff at this laptop to find whatever it is that's taking so long.
12:50
<ogra-classmate>
and the ubuntu kernel might use a different scheduler
12:50
<moquist>
ogra-classmate: I wondered about preemption. and scheduling.
12:51
<ogra-classmate>
you can set the scheduler somehow via a kernel option
12:51
dont ask me how its called exactly :P
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12:52
<ogra-classmate>
probably scheduler=
12:52* moquist has to catch a plane
12:52
<moquist>
:p
12:53
bye
12:53
<ogra-classmate>
ciao
12:53
safe flight
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13:15
<happywithed>
Hello everyone
13:15
<petre>
hello happywithed
13:16
<happywithed>
I would like to clear a folder on the LTSP5 server that all students have access to, any ideas how I can do that?
13:16
hi petre
13:16
<petre>
happywithed: when you say 'clear a folder' do mean delete all the files in that folder?
13:17
<happywithed>
sorry create
13:17
not clear
13:17
I am running edubuntu feisty, a server to 15 clients
13:17
<petre>
create a directory/folder in, say, home/ called classroom, make it 777
13:18
<happywithed>
that would give access to everyone to read, write and execute it though
13:19
I see what you are saying though
13:19
<petre>
right, any problem with that?
13:20
Then put a symlink to the directory in each student's ~/Desktop/ and then they can just click and drag files to it
13:20
<happywithed>
I guess, the problem would be that anyone can delete any file that I place there, so maybe 744 would work better
13:20
<petre>
or create a script that does
13:20
<happywithed>
they could copy it to their own home and then change the permissions
13:20
<petre>
cp $1 /home/classroom
13:21
is this for passing files to students or for students to pass files to the teacher?
13:21
<Gad1>
happywithed: chmod 1777
13:21
<happywithed>
If I have a student called, say joe, who has a folder in /home/joe, how could I create a link to /home/classroom automatically?
13:22
<Gad1>
(then, users can only delete their own files)
13:22
<happywithed>
Gad1, that makes sense
13:22
petre: for the teacher to pass files to the students
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13:23
<happywithed>
In other words, is there a way that the classroom folder appears on the all of the students home directories or desktop?
13:24
<Gad1>
make a symlink
13:24
<ogra-classmate>
sure, write a little script that creates the symling in their Desktop folder
13:26
<petre>
happywithed: you could add this to /etc/profile:
13:27
<ogra-classmate>
for i in $(ls /home); do if [ -e /home/$i/Desktop ]; then ln /path/to/your/dir /home/$i/Desktop/classroom ;fi ;done
13:27
just adjust /path/to/your/dir in the above line
13:27
<petre>
if [ ! -L /home/${USER}/Desktop/classroom ] && ln -s /home/classroom /home/${USER}/home/Desktop/classroom
13:28
<happywithed>
ogra, petre, thanks, I'll try that
13:28
<petre>
Gad1: ping
13:28
<Gad1>
petre: pong
13:29Gad1 is now known as GadiRomm
13:29
<petre>
go get your plane ticket to minneapolis for NCLS, we need you here
13:29
<GadiRomm>
better
13:29
got it already ;)
13:29
know anything about Sun Country Airlines?
13:29
<petre>
oh good!
13:29
Yeah, they're good deal
13:29
<GadiRomm>
heh
13:29
hope they have wings
13:29
<jammcq>
petre: how many should I make the reservation for?
13:30
<petre>
especially if they bring you into the Humphrey terminal rather than the main (Lindbergh) terminal
13:30
Humphrey is all brand new, not used much, easy to get in & out of
13:30
I'm SOOO glad you're coming
13:30
<GadiRomm>
cool
13:30
<petre>
Scott had to pull out because his son has his last jazz band concert on that Friday night
13:31
<GadiRomm>
at some point, you need to send me some details - like where is it?
13:31
;)
13:31
<petre>
which I agreed is more important
13:31
see www.nclinux.net
13:32
if you picture Mpls. as a square, unfortunately the airport is in the lower right corner and the college is in the upper right corner
13:32
about a 35 minute drive
13:32
but easy, just one right turn ;-)
13:33
when are you coming in?
13:34
<jammcq>
petre: where is eden prairie in that square?
13:35
<petre>
lower left corner, just at the point where you make a right turn to head north
13:36
so, you just head west from the airport on I-494, go about 5-10 miles and you're in Eden Prairie
13:36
<jammcq>
cool
13:36
<petre>
your hotel is right off I-494
13:37
then to get up to the college, you go back east on 494 a mile or so and then head north on Hwy 169
13:37
<ogra-classmate>
jammcq: so are you home at all the next two months ?
13:37
<petre>
going north is farther than the distance from EP to the airport, so the 'square' that is Mpls is really more of a rectangle
13:38
<jammcq>
ogra-classmate: mostly. I'll be in Minneapolis for 2 days. I think that's the only trip before Portland
13:39
<ogra-classmate>
ah, good for you
13:41
<jammcq>
ogra-classmate: you doing some travelling?
13:42
<ogra-classmate>
berlin next week, then london, portland somewhere in the loop there is stockholm and czprus
13:42
*cyprus
13:42
<jammcq>
wow
13:42
busy busy
13:43
<ogra-classmate>
and that doesnt include any surprises from intel yet
13:43
who knows what comes up with that
13:50
<GadiRomm>
petre- thanks
13:52
<petre>
GadiRomm: you're welcome--uh, for what?
13:52
<GadiRomm>
the info
13:52
<petre>
oh, sure, got lots of that ;-)
13:52
are you staying at the Courtyard where jammcq is?
13:53
it's rather too bad that we're not doing it a week later:
13:54
my wife and kids will all be out of town, so I could have put everyone up at my house
14:05
ogra-classmate: are you the only canonical person working on ltsp?
14:07
<ogra-classmate>
yes, but we hired a second one
14:07
he'll start in about 6 weeks
14:07
<petre>
where?
14:07
<ogra-classmate>
here
14:07
<petre>
de?
14:08
<vagrantc>
in cyberspace
14:08
<ogra-classmate>
irc
14:08
:)
14:09
<petre>
yes, but physically, were does he live?
14:09
<jammcq>
heh
14:09
that's a VERY good question
14:09
<petre>
(everyone's a comedian--sheesh)
14:09
;-)
14:10testing has joined #ltsp
14:10
<ogra-classmate>
petre: he wears his nick for a reason ;) (now guess whom i mean)
14:11
<petre>
uh, vagrantc?
14:12* vagrantc begins to wonder
14:12
<jammcq>
ding ding ding .... Tell him what he's won
14:12
<ogra-classmate>
heh
14:12
a rubberspot
14:13
with handle
14:13
<petre>
what is the reason he wears his nick?
14:13
vagrantc: ?
14:13* petre hopes he isn't being indiscreet in asking
14:14* vagrantc would find it ridiculous if vagrantc were offended at people asking
14:16
<vagrantc>
petre: in the last several years, the longest i stayed in any one place was 6 or 7 months, but those were long stays
14:16irule has quit IRC
14:17Burgundavia has joined #ltsp
14:17
<vagrantc>
usually it's more like 1-3 months...
14:20
<Guaraldo>
sbalneav: Hi... I've found a but on LTSP4.2 of ubuntu on ltsp-devices.sh...
14:20* vagrantc notices central madrid is crazy during the weekends
14:20
<vagrantc>
LTSP 4.2 on ubuntu? blasphemy!
14:20
:)
14:21
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: It couses bug of non-deletion of device icon on Desktop...
14:22
vagrantc: the shell of the workstation doesn't suport elif command
14:23
vagrantc: I've corrected this by changing elif by a fi an another if...
14:23
<jammcq>
REALLY !!!!! ?
14:23
<vagrantc>
yes, well, why not LTSP5 on ubuntu ?
14:23
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: Really... :-D
14:23
<jammcq>
the shell of the workstation, in a shell running ON the workstation? or in an xterm ?
14:24
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: ON en WS...
14:24
<jammcq>
hmm
14:24
<ogra-classmate>
vagrantc: oh, i got encrypted mail
14:24
<Guaraldo>
ops... on THE WS
14:24
<jammcq>
then it doesn't have anything to do with Ubuntu
14:24
because those are "LTSP" packages
14:24
Guaraldo: which script did you modify?
14:24
<vagrantc>
ogra-classmate: what secrets must that hold?
14:25
<ogra-classmate>
well, no idea until i get to my other machine
14:25
<jammcq>
vagrantc: he could tell you, but then he'd have to kill you
14:25* vagrantc is in the mood for some battle-to-the-death anyways
14:25
<ogra-classmate>
i need to get done with that classmate so i can use one of the usb sticks for work
14:25
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: really... the problem can be corrected on the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/udev/scripts/ltsp-devices.sh script
14:25
<ogra-classmate>
and copy over my home to it
14:26
<jammcq>
Guaraldo: line 189 ?
14:26
sbalneav: ping
14:26* ogra-classmate is planning to make the classmate his main system for the next 6 months
14:26* jammcq thinks ogra-classmate is a glutton for punishment
14:26
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: exactly
14:26
<ogra-classmate>
hmmm, i didnt trz how it performs as ltsp server yet ....
14:27
jammcq: i just want to be sure it works like i want
14:27
best way to find that out is to use it
14:27
<lns>
ogra-classmate, what's classmate?
14:28
<ogra-classmate>
classmatepc.com
14:28
<lns>
thx =)
14:28
<vagrantc>
if ; elif ; else ; fi is all POSIX shell ... what kind of shell wouldn't support that ?
14:28
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: good question...
14:29
<vagrantc>
you'd never see that kind of craziness on ltsp5! :)
14:29* vagrantc plays ltsp5 fanbot for a while
14:29
<jammcq>
Guaraldo: what doesn't make sense is the fact that the script is run by /bin/bash. take a look at line 1 of that script
14:30
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: Yes... and on the bash prompt elif is recognized...
14:30
<jammcq>
ogra-classmate: eating your own dogfood
14:30
Guaraldo: yeah, that's what doesn't make sense
14:30
<lns>
ogra-classmate, are these pxe bootable?
14:30
<ogra-classmate>
yeah
14:30
lns: yup
14:30
<lns>
!!
14:30
<ltspbot`>
lns: Error: "!" is not a valid command.
14:30
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: But in the script it didn't work properly...
14:30
<lns>
that's awesome
14:30
<jammcq>
and..... if it's truly a problem, then EVERYBODY using LTSP_4.2 should be having that problem
14:31nobios has joined #ltsp
14:32
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: Yes... And I've heard about this problem with some people in Brazil... I was having this problem and was working on this...
14:32
<lns>
I just got back from demoing an Ubuntu Feisty/LTSP setup to about 6 school comp. lab techs/teachers
14:32
<ogra-classmate>
lns: you should see compiz on these little thingies if they run as ltsp clients
14:32
<lns>
and we found a few bugs/issues that might/might not be known, mostly regarding the Ubuntu GUI
14:33
ogra-classmate, compiz on those? you mean, over LTSP?
14:33
<ogra-classmate>
yes
14:33
<lns>
hehehe
14:33
<ogra-classmate>
its awesome
14:33
<lns>
have you tried?
14:33
really??
14:33
<ogra-classmate>
yeah
14:33
<lns>
hahaha
14:33
<jammcq>
lns: it's quite impressive
14:33
<lns>
i'd pay money to see this
14:33
<jammcq>
wobbly windows and all
14:33
<lns>
oh i've been using beryl a lot, but not over ltsp!
14:33
<ogra-classmate>
if you want bling on thin clients, find any with intel graphics card
14:34
<lns>
dude
14:34
intel? like... i810??
14:34
<ogra-classmate>
yeah
14:34
<lns>
those are....cheapos!
14:34
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: I was luky when touth about changing the elif command by an fi and another if (I've tink that wouldn't work becouse it's exactly the same thing)...
14:34
<lns>
i wouldn't think it'd run very well at all on those
14:34
but i definitely believe you
14:34
i'm gonna need to try this in the lab
14:34
the students (and teachers) would go nuts
14:34
<ogra-classmate>
intel provides all data about them to the commiunity, you wont find any better supported 3d engine in linux
14:36
<lns>
wow... but does providing data to the community really compare to actual graphical hardware/drivers? I mean, I know that's a dumb question, but..I really didn't think Intel made very good gfx chipsets at all compared to ATI/NVidia
14:36
is the rendering / wobbling in compiz done over the network or on the client?
14:36
<jammcq>
unfortunately, there aren't any thin clients with Intel cards, and there's no add-in cards with Intel chips
14:37
<ogra-classmate>
right
14:37
<jammcq>
yet
14:37
<lns>
yeah...the neoware e100 clients have via gfx chipsets (not sis like i said yesterday as i thought from the spec sheets)
14:38bobby_C has joined #ltsp
14:38
<lns>
oh and as far as that issue with the lockups related to video, it wasn't client specific - my lts.conf had nfs swapping enabled for some crazy reason, that fixed half the lockups, the other half was related to an (unrelated) bug in ooimpress slideshow
14:39
<Guaraldo>
gcompris works well on i810 graphic board...
14:39
My kids have one of this...
14:40
but i810 is NOT a good graphic boad... :-/ it's shippy... :-D
14:41
<lns>
Guaraldo, yeah - i810 used to be a real pita for debian to recognize, and they had the shared mem..ugh
14:41
sloooow
14:41
<Guaraldo>
lns: veeeeeeeeeeeeery slooooooooow... :-D
14:42
<ogra-classmate>
well, i have an 910 in here
14:42
but the difference shouldnt be to big
14:42
<lns>
yeah
14:43
Now here's my big question for the day:
14:43
I have a (rapidly) growing list of small and big bugs related to Ubuntu/LTSP that I'm experiencing with my lab of ~35 clients
14:44
they are (mostly) related to Gnome...is there somewhere I can post this list to keep up on it, or should I individually comb through the buglists to see if they're being addressed, or....?
14:45
<ogra-classmate>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
14:45
<lns>
ogra-classmate, thank you =)
14:45
I'm still getting used to launchpad and filing bugs in general
14:46happywithed has quit IRC
14:46
<ogra-classmate>
what were the worst things you found ?
14:47
(since the bugs will land on my desk anyway :) )
14:47nicoAMG has quit IRC
14:48
<lns>
worst were things like not being able to remove an accidentally mounted ssh volume icon from the desktop, a black-box style cursor (instead of a nice arrow) in tsclient, how to disable update manager notification for the clients...
14:48
easiest way for giving temporary printer access to users on a per-session (or per-whatever) basis
14:48
<ogra-classmate>
update-manager runs only for admin users
14:49
<lns>
ok =) that's one..haha
14:49
<ogra-classmate>
your normal userws shouldnt be in the admin group
14:49
<lns>
i sure love irc =p
14:49
they aren't...i was logged in as myself (admin user)
14:49
i assumed it was the same for the others
14:49
<ogra-classmate>
yeah, the ssh volum4e is a deswign problem
14:49
<lns>
durr
14:49
oh ok so its known
14:49
<Guaraldo>
lns: Do you use LTSP4.2???
14:49
<ogra-classmate>
well, its a feature
14:49
<lns>
Guaraldo, no - ltsp5
14:50
<Guaraldo>
lns: Ok...
14:50
<ogra-classmate>
using local devices doesnt need an eject option, so that is disabled globally in the gui for all users on thin clients automatically
14:51
indeed that brings probs if you have something like sshfs volumes
14:51
<lns>
yeah
14:51
so it sees sshfs volumes as local devices?
14:51
<ogra-classmate>
no, because you use a thin client eject is globally disabled
14:52
we're working on an implementation that uses virtual hal devices for gutsy
14:52
<lns>
oh cool
14:52
<vagrantc>
lns: are you actually using sshfs, or LTSP's local devices support?
14:53
<ogra-classmate>
there is will be possible to specify unmounting functionallity per device and that prob should be solved
14:53
vagrantc: i assumed sshfs
14:53* vagrantc makes no assumptions when troubleshooting or bug reporting
14:53
<lns>
vagrantc, to tell you the truth i'm not sure - the principal/IT guy at the school accidentally mounted an ssh volume (?? not sure how) from a client and couldn't 'unmount/eject/move to trash'
14:53
it was sshfs
14:54
<vagrantc>
ok.
14:54
<lns>
at least that's what the icon said (ssh)
14:54
<ogra-classmate>
likely from the network servers dialog in gnome
14:54
<lns>
ogra-classmate, yes
14:54
when he tried to drag to trash it said permission denied or similar
14:55
<ogra-classmate>
you can tell him its a design bug we're aware of and are working on to solve it ;)
14:55
<lns>
ogra-classmate, yes i will for sure.
14:55
i can't tell you guys how nice this is to be able to chat with you about this
14:55
i'm going to do everything I can to make it easier for us all to fix bugs, although IANAP
14:55
<ogra-classmate>
but dont hesitate to file it please, my brain is a sieve sometimes, having reminder bugs helps a lot :)
14:56
<lns>
no prob!
14:56
hehe
14:56
anything i can do
14:57
like i said i'm still getting used to bug filing in general, i hope filing dupe bugs / not enough information in them isn't too much of a hassle to go through for you guys
14:57
i want to be as efficient as possible in doing that
14:59
<testing>
hello can somebody help me to use ltsp + thinstation?
14:59
<vagrantc>
it's generally worse to have too much information than too little
14:59
er
14:59
<ogra-classmate>
heh
15:00
<vagrantc>
it's generally better to have too much information than too little
15:00
because if you have too much, you can filter it out right then, whereas, if you have too little, you have to ask more questions.
15:01
<lns>
vagrantc, yes - i'll use the search capabilities to the best of my ability to try and find existing bugs and just comment on those before filing a new one
15:01
and i have a feeling i'll be filing lots because i'll be dealing with a lot of students and teachers that will be reporting them to me
15:01* vagrantc is not happy with launchpad's bug searching capabilities
15:01
<lns>
again, probably mostly relating to the gnome UI in ubuntu
15:02
and related apps
15:02
vagrantc, can you suggest a best-practice way of searching for existing bugs in launchpad?
15:02
ex: searching for the package name itself, or symptoms, ..?
15:03
<vagrantc>
lns: be extremely patient and spend ridiculous amounts of time?
15:03
<lns>
hahaha
15:03
ok
15:03
i don't have a problem with that
15:03
but i'm sure it could be improved for everyone
15:03
who has control of that system?
15:03
<Burgundavia>
it is also better to have two duplicate bugs and no bugs at all
15:03* vagrantc is used to commandline clients for bug reporting with very flexible and quick filter patterns
15:04
<Burgundavia>
than no bugs at all, rather
15:04
hey vagrantc
15:04
where in the world are you today?
15:04
<vagrantc>
lns: that's canonical's propreitary baby
15:04
Burgundavia: oh, you know the spot
15:04
<lns>
vagrantc, aahh ok
15:04
so i'll bitch to ogra ;)
15:04
<Burgundavia>
still madrid?
15:04
<vagrantc>
Burgundavia: i have hardly moved
15:04
<Burgundavia>
geez
15:04
it is a nice hostel
15:04
<vagrantc>
Burgundavia: i've actually gotten a cold
15:04
<Burgundavia>
ugh
15:05
<vagrantc>
but that's no real excuse.
15:05
<lns>
hostels rock =)
15:06
<vagrantc>
Burgundavia: really, i have crappy search capabilities
15:06* vagrantc ponders going to extremadura, but can't find much info
15:07cliebow has quit IRC
15:07
<Burgundavia>
let me go hunting for you tonight
15:07* vagrantc chuckles
15:08
<vagrantc>
Burgundavia: i've got an offer to visit a school in extremadura in merida
15:08
<Burgundavia>
very cool
15:08
<vagrantc>
it's around 60 euros round trip by train
15:09
<Burgundavia>
ahh
15:10
<vagrantc>
so living costs would have to offset about 3 nights worth of staying here somehow ...
15:10
Burgundavia: finally found mercado san felipe again while it was open
15:11
Burgundavia: passed by it a couple times during siesta having no clue where the hell i was :)
15:11
<Burgundavia>
that is the underground one?
15:12
<vagrantc>
yeah. with the tasty sock-flavoured cheese and excellent olives :)
15:13
<Burgundavia>
right
15:14J45p3r has joined #ltsp
15:15testing is now known as gtest
15:16gtest has joined #ltsp
15:19
<sbalneav>
jammcq: pong
15:19
<jammcq>
hey
15:19
sbalneav: did you see Gauraldo's comment about the 'elif' in one of the udev scripts?
15:20
<sbalneav>
No, I'll have a look
15:21
Ah, well, that's for 4.2 yes?
15:21
<jammcq>
yes
15:21
I'm not convinced it's really a problem
15:22
seems to me others would have reported this long ago
15:22
<sbalneav>
I haven't got 4.2 set up anywhere, so I'd have to test it to see.
15:22
<ogra-classmate>
hey, seems ubuntu gets a new display configuration tool
15:23
that should help us a lot
15:23
<petre>
jammcq: what's the symptom he's seeing?
15:23
I've got 4.2 running at home
15:23
<ogra-classmate>
things not being removed from his desktop as i understood
15:24
<jammcq>
device icons don't remove themselves when you remove the device
15:24
he claims that 'elif' is not valid syntax in that script
15:24
I looked at it, it's using bash, and the syntax is definately valid
15:24
<ogra-classmate>
is there a way to change the default shell ?
15:24
<jammcq>
Guaraldo: ping
15:24
<ogra-classmate>
in 4.2
15:25
<jammcq>
ogra-classmate: nope. and the script has: #!/bin/bash
15:25
at the top
15:25
<ogra-classmate>
weird
15:25
<vagrantc>
does /bin/bash point to something weird?
15:25
<jammcq>
so, the only way it could be different is if someone made /bin/bash be a symlink pointing to something else
15:26
on standard ltsp-4.2, /bin/bash is a binary
15:26
<ogra-classmate>
yeah, likely
15:26
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: pong
15:26
<lns>
ogra-classmate, FYI just filed a bug for the nautilus/ssh issue here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/116902
15:26
<vagrantc>
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2007-03-30 23:01 /bin/bash -> tsch
15:26
aha!
15:26
<jammcq>
Guaraldo: we're discussing your problem here
15:26
vagrantc: where's that?
15:26
<vagrantc>
jammcq: in cyberspace
15:26
<jammcq>
btw, that sounds evil
15:26
<ogra-classmate>
lns: thanks ! :)
15:26
<Guaraldo>
Oh!, sory... I'm here now... Let me see the log...
15:27
<lns>
ogra-classmate, no problem at all!
15:27* vagrantc feels less grumpy after eating blue cheese
15:28
<sbalneav>
If you've set bash to the tcsh, you'll have lots bigger problems than icons not appearing :)
15:28
<ogra-classmate>
heh
15:28
i wonder if that would even boot
15:28* vagrantc tries
15:28
<petre>
what distro is Guaraldo using?
15:29
<ogra-classmate>
how much if bash does tcsh support ?
15:29
*tsch
15:29
<Guaraldo>
petre: Kubuntu
15:29
<sbalneav>
Who filed that bug?
15:29
<ogra-classmate>
and you use ltsp 4.2 ?
15:30
<petre>
bbiab...
15:30
<Guaraldo>
ogra-classmate: Yep... We are about to change it, but not for now...
15:30a5benwillis has quit IRC
15:31
<ogra-classmate>
on any ubuntu based distro newer than dapper you should really use ltsp5
15:32
<petre>
on my 4.2-on-fedora/k12ltsp5 & k12ltsp6 systems, there's no such issue, aside from a floppy icon that won't go away
15:32
so elif works there
15:32
<ogra-classmate>
thats on purpose
15:32
(the floppy)
15:33
<Guaraldo>
ogra-classmate: we had upgraded to faisty last month...
15:34
<petre>
actually, I commented it out in the 15-ltsp-block.rules
15:34
<jammcq>
ogra-classmate: why should you be using ltsp-5 ? when ltsp-4.2 still provides an awful lot of value?
15:34
sure we all want to move to ltsp-5
15:34
<petre>
but the Dell laptop's bios supports a hot-swap on the floppy so I can't get rid of it.
15:34
<jammcq>
but let's face it, there's still some issues
15:34* petre likes 4.2
15:35
<jammcq>
each release gets better and better
15:35
and that's great
15:35
<vagrantc>
well, when people start having more issues with 4.2 than with ltsp 5, it's probably time to consider switching.
15:35
<jammcq>
sure, when that happens
15:39nf1 has quit IRC
15:41
<ogra-classmate>
jammcq: solving the issues is a matter of manpower and time ... we're just solving one of these problems :)
15:42
<jammcq>
sure, and some people will step up and help, others have a job to do.
15:42
<ogra-classmate>
and be sure i'll focus on speed as soon as i have ltsp time again so the worst things should be solved before gutsy
15:43* jammcq is happy to hear that, and looking forward to the results
15:43
<sbalneav>
So who's supporting 4.2?
15:43
<jammcq>
sbalneav: all of us
15:44
<ogra-classmate>
jammcq: i guess he means security updates and the like ... stuff that takes time
15:44* Guaraldo will have to reboot workstation... bad tests result... :-/
15:44
<ogra-classmate>
indeed nobody in here will stop to support 4.2 users
15:44Burgundavia has quit IRC
15:46Guaraldo has quit IRC
15:48* vagrantc wonders if ogra-classmate meant stop or stoop
15:48Paul_UK has joined #ltsp
15:48Guaraldo has joined #ltsp
15:48
<Paul_UK>
hey guys, i know, commonly asked question. can ltsp share windows applications?
15:49
<jammcq>
LTSP is for running Linux applications. Certainly there's methods of running windows apps, via wine, vmware, rdesktop...
15:49
but what level of "sharing" are you talking about?
15:50
<Paul_UK>
jammcq, outlook, office, etc
15:50
<jammcq>
LTSP can run wine, vmware and others. if you want to run your windows apps through that, that's up to you
15:50
it's not an LTSP issue
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15:53
<Paul_UK>
so if say, i managed to get ltsp up and running, using wine, get outlook running on the server, then i could share the wine app to my thinclient users?
15:53
<jammcq>
yes. but.... don't forget about licensing
15:53
<vagrantc>
Paul_UK: there's not really much difference between running on a thin client or running on a stand alone machine.
15:54
<Paul_UK>
vagrantc, there is, when you think about hotdesking with windows and outlook and the administration
15:54
<vagrantc>
Paul_UK: "hotdesking" ?
15:54
<Paul_UK>
move from 1 machine to another
15:55
either next to them, down the corridor or another floor
15:55
<vagrantc>
if you can do it on a standalone linux machine, you can probably do it on a linux thin client.
15:55
<Paul_UK>
yeah i know that hehe
15:55
<vagrantc>
that's all i was saying.
15:55
<Paul_UK>
ah k, probably missed your point then. well im yet to get office 2003 working under wine.
15:56
<jammcq>
is office2003 on the list of things known to work under wine?
15:57
<ogra-classmate>
codeweavers supports it i think
15:58
<Paul_UK>
ogra-classmate: unfortunately, codeweavers only supports office2000 only, never got 2003 to work
15:58
<ogra-classmate>
ah
15:58
<jammcq>
if codeweavers only goes up to 2000, I sure wouldn't expect wine to support 2003
15:58
<ogra-classmate>
right
15:58
<jammcq>
since the bulk of the work is done by Codeweavers
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16:11
<Paul_UK>
has anyone integrated ltsp with centos 5?
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16:14
<gtest>
hello, how can I set my computer a X server'
16:15
?
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19:15
<sahil>
does anyone have any experience making the eway tu-40 clients boot?
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19:57
<petre>
evening all
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20:01
<pablo_>
hi! how can i install lstp on ubuntu 7.04?
20:03
UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall linked from ltsp doc says :sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone openssh-server
20:03
sudo ltsp-build-client
20:05
anyone has followed this instructions?
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20:17
<jammcq>
hey kidz
20:17
<lns>
pablo_, the quickinstall guide should be fairly complete
20:18
are you having issues with the install?
20:18
what's up jammcq
20:18
<sahil>
hi jammcq, do you know anything about the eway tu-40 clients?
20:19
<pablo_>
lns: at first i have a dhcp issue but its ok now . now im doing sudo ltsp-build-client
20:19
<lns>
ok
20:19
that takes a while
20:19
<pablo_>
lns: yes
20:19
<lns>
i've had issues while it runs its scripts, but they are specific
20:21
are you having issues?
20:21
<sahil>
lns: i am having issues hardcore
20:21
lns
20:21
you know anything about getting x to work for sis550?
20:22
<lns>
hehe
20:22
sahil, can you give some more information?
20:22
<sahil>
well i think the closest ive gotten is getting my monitor to say its out of range
20:22
<lns>
ltsp version?
20:22
<sahil>
ive tried everything i can think of in lts.conf
20:22
4.2
20:23
i have a document that came with the clients that say how to set up x i can send over real quick
20:23
<lns>
well
20:23
do the thin clints boot into their own environment without pxe/etherboot?
20:23
like a flash image
20:23
<sahil>
no
20:23
<lns>
ok
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20:24
<lns>
are you booting via pxe or etherboot
20:24
<sahil>
pxe
20:24
<lns>
ok
20:25
have you done the obvious in lts.conf? such as XSERVER = sis
20:25
<sahil>
yes
20:25
<lns>
what distro are you using?
20:25
<sahil>
gentoo
20:25
i even tried vesa
20:25
<lns>
hmm
20:25
<sahil>
that doc might shed some light
20:25
<lns>
i'm only versed (and just a little at that) with ubuntu setups
20:25
not sure how gentoo does it
20:26
<sahil>
i think its saying to use sisfb and then change the xserver to use the fb
20:26
<lns>
did you try that?
20:26
even w/4.2, afaik it should detect sis chipsets fairly easily
20:26
but i might be wrong
20:26
<sahil>
yeah thats what i was thinking
20:26
<lns>
i've only done 2 complete lab setups before
20:26
sorry i'm not much more help
20:27
<sahil>
its the thought that counts
20:27
<lns>
=p
20:27
have you considered going to meukow?
20:27
i know that fixed a *$#@load of problems for me
20:27
<sahil>
i have, thing is i love gentoo too much
20:27
<lns>
even with video detection
20:27
haha
20:27
i know your kind
20:28
they don't have an ebuild of ltsp5?
20:28
i'm surprised
20:28
that's kinda their whole thing, being able to stay on top because its so easy to port source to their distro
20:30
<sahil>
Option "UseFBDev" "true"
20:30
how would i get that in lts.conf?
20:31
i think i need X to do that
20:32
<pablo_>
lns: its done, but now i booted a client, but it doestn show a gdm login sscreen, instead itss all black
20:33
<lns>
pablo_, i've had that happen w/4.2 in ubuntu as well
20:34
i upgraded to 5.0 and it fixed it
20:34
with a via chipset though not sis
20:37
pablo_, have you seen http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf ?
20:39
as far as i can tell sis should be pretty much autodetected
20:43
<pablo_>
lns: ill take a look at it
20:44
lns: the mobo of the ltsp server is an intel d865gbf
20:44
<lns>
shouldn't make a diff
20:45
as long as your storage and network adapter are seen you don't need much for the serverside
20:45
and all your mem (if over 4gb)
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