IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 July 2015   (all times are UTC)

00:14
<cstk421>
after running the build client config both with and without --arch i386. I dont have an i386 folder in the tftpboot folder. I also do not have the pxelinux.0 files in the amd folder. thoughtss ?
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00:15
<maldridge>
so you ran ltsp-build-client --arch i386 and did not get the expected tftp files?
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00:18
<cstk421>
right
00:18
bunch of files are missing actually.. the ltsp.conf is missing too. the whole i386
00:18
wierd
00:19
<maldridge>
distro/version/guide (if any)
00:19
<cstk421>
this guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall#Installing_on_top_of_an_already_running_desktop_system
00:19
ubuntu server 15.04
00:20
ltsp-config 5.5.1-1ubuntu3
00:21
<maldridge>
hmm, that should work
00:21
no errors were given?
00:21
<cstk421>
no sir
00:22
im gonna try and rebuild again and see what it does
00:22
<maldridge>
yeah that is wierd, I would definitly try a rebuild
00:22
<cstk421>
ok
00:26
maldridge: so i went to build it and it said that /opt/ltsp/i386 already exists. so i removed it and ran the build again. Is it not supposed to drop the pxelinux.0 files and such in the tftpboot folder ?
00:27
<maldridge>
they should wind up in /var/lib/tftpboot on ubuntu
00:27
in your case /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/
00:27
<cstk421>
right thats where i was looking
00:27
guess we will see if this rebuild fixes it
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00:40
<cstk421>
maldridge: ok so the rebuild sais it was successful
00:40
maldridge: it did create the right directories
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01:03
<cstk421>
rebuilt the client configs but still no pxelinux.0 images
01:04
have nothing to boot from tftp
01:20
<maldridge>
that is strange
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01:21
<maldridge>
hm, my configs go about installing ltsp a different way, so I'm not sure I can help much furthur
01:27
<cstk421>
are you using ubuntu 15 ? that would help to know
01:27
cause i last time i built this on 14.04 i didnt have this issue
01:29
<maldridge>
I'm running on 14.04, but I'm also using pnp
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01:40
<cstk421>
whats pnp ?
01:51
<maldridge>
!ltsp-pnp
01:51
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
01:51
<maldridge>
that^
01:53
<cstk421>
copy that
01:53
reading up on it now
01:57
<maldridge>
it works a lot better if you just have on architecture, but it makes it way easier because no chroots
02:04
<cstk421>
guess i dont understand the whole chroots thing for it to make sense
02:04
been reading up on it
02:15
<maldridge>
do you understand what a chroot is in general?
02:19
<cstk421>
now i do
02:19
more or less a container
02:21
<maldridge>
yeah, its sort of a disk without actually being a disk, the pnp method does away with that and templates from the server's own rootfs
02:21
as a result though, its bound to the server's architecture
02:22
<cstk421>
which is why the guides ive seen for pnp are 32 bit
02:22
makes sense
02:22
unless you know for sure your running all 64 bit arch
02:23
<maldridge>
yeah, I have a special case system that does 64-bit, but its only used for one lab
02:23
<cstk421>
are you deploying the linux desktops to users ? apps only ? or rdp ?
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02:27
<maldridge>
my 32-bit setups are full desktop environments
02:27
my 64 bit setup is just steam
02:37
<cstk421>
got it
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12:57
<FrozenZia>
Hola -- having some trouble with a tiny "test" LTSP network we're working with.
12:57
Client has hard drive and boots to it just fine, gets an IP from DHCP server in router.
12:58
But trying to boot same client from network, it does *not* seem to get IP from DHCP server in router.
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13:04
<FrozenZia>
got it.
13:06
/etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf needed some editing.
13:10
With the dhcp-server elsewhere, I thought the client just gets an IP and that's it, but apparently the LTSP-server has something to do with it in the interim.
13:21
Specifically, we needed to change this line to reflect our IP-address range: dhcp-range=192.168.0.0,proxy
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15:29
<work_alkisg>
FrozenZia: ltsp-config dnsmasq --overwrite
15:29work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
15:29
<alkisg>
This creates the correct dnsmasq configuration
15:30
If your router can be configured to send the boot filename and root path, then a proxydhcp dnsmasq configuration isn't needed
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15:33
<markit>
hi alkisg, I hope you are well in these hard times
15:34
<alkisg>
Hi markit, trying to :)
15:34
How are you?
15:37
<markit>
Scared for the future at 360° but I'm fine, thanks
15:37
if there is something I can do to help you now or in the future, don't hesitate to ask (don't know if I will be able to help, but do ask)
15:41* markit quits and goes home from work, another day of normal IT troubles is gone :)
15:42
<markit>
alkisg: see you :)
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16:10
<cstk421>
what is the ubuntu splash login screen called when pxe boot to ltsp ?
16:11
my goal is to have users log in to that portal and it direct them to their VM via xfreerdp from any thinclient. how would you guys suggest doing that ?
16:21
<alkisg>
cstk421: do you mean the splash screen, which is called plymouth, or the login screen, which is called ldm?
16:21
<cstk421>
alkisg: i discovered its called LDM yes
16:21
<alkisg>
Each user has his own windows VM?
16:21
<cstk421>
yes
16:21
<alkisg>
Or one server VM with terminal services enabled?
16:21
<cstk421>
or server 2012 session
16:21
havent decided
16:21
for now prob their own vm's
16:21
<alkisg>
What are the client specs?
16:21
<cstk421>
core i5's
16:22
lol
16:22
<alkisg>
Then why not run the VM locally?
16:22
<cstk421>
fat client you mean ?
16:22
<alkisg>
One VM for all users, with a per-user snapshot on top of them
16:22
Well, ltsp thin clients with vbox as a localapp
16:22
So yes, it would be fat...
16:22
<cstk421>
whats the advantage ?
16:22
<alkisg>
!flash
16:22
<ltsp`>
flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
16:23
<alkisg>
Imagine 2.5 gpbs per client...
16:23
And, a 40 core server for 10 clients
16:23
That's the xfreerdp way, vs the vbox way, which doesn't strain the network and uses local cpu
16:23
<cstk421>
xfreerdp uses flash ?
16:23
<alkisg>
No, but videos are the same
16:24
When you scroll a web page it's the same as watching a video
16:24
<cstk421>
so its basically streaming a video is your point
16:24
yeah gotcha
16:24
<alkisg>
Yes that's what remote desktops do...
16:24
<cstk421>
i have to say i ran a few and never saw lag or any issues that way
16:24
interesting
16:24
<alkisg>
Have you tried 10 clients watching youtube?
16:24
<cstk421>
so any form of rdp sessions wil behave the same
16:24
no i havent
16:24
i admit
16:25
<alkisg>
There are some ways to speed up things
16:25
Windows remotefx tries to find the video source and let the client render it
16:25
<cstk421>
ok
16:25
<alkisg>
and xvideo uses 12 bpp
16:25
But essentially yeah remote desktop is too much for simple gigabit networks
16:26
<cstk421>
wow this is the first im hearing this. none of the forums or docs ive read mentioned this
16:26
that sucks
16:26
<alkisg>
Well, the solution I mentioned is pretty simpler than the one you had in mind...
16:28
<cstk421>
One VM for all users, with a per-user snapshot on top of them
16:28
explain how that is setup please
16:28
would that be a 2012 vm and each user has their own profile ?
16:29
<alkisg>
A windows 10 vm, with a single user called "user"
16:29
And a shared folder that would map to /home/user1/Documents
16:29
or to /home/user2/Documents
16:29
The users would login normally with LDM so they would have access to /home/userX normally with sshfs
16:30
And their snapshot would be in /home/user1/VirtualBox VMs/xxx, and would be read-write, with a read-only base on /home/Shared/yyy
16:30
The /home/Shared could be mounted with LOCALAPPS_EXTRA_MOUNTS, or even with nbd for more speed
16:31
So basically you only need a small script in the server, /usr/share/xsessions/windows-vm.desktop, that manages their login
16:32
<cstk421>
i have to say thats beyond my limited experience so far with ltsp
16:32
any chance there are guides for this type of deployment ?
16:32
what would you refer to it as ?
16:32
<alkisg>
No, I don't think so... I gave a workshop about that a month ago, but it was greek-only :)
16:32
<cstk421>
nice
16:33
so i assume youve done this with win 10 ?
16:33
<alkisg>
With windows 7
16:33
<cstk421>
how are all these companies running thinclients hundreds of them the same way i want to ? massive networks ?
16:33
<alkisg>
It'd be nice to commit such a script upstream, but I _really_ don't like promoting closed-source solutions, do I never took the time to implement it upstream
16:33
Lower requirements
16:33
<cstk421>
i see
16:34
what do you mean by closed source solutions ?
16:34
<alkisg>
I help in maintaining these schools' computer labs: http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece
16:35
If I proposed a windows-based solution to them, they would need one license for each client,
16:35
<cstk421>
oh ok i see
16:35
<alkisg>
and, with the crisis and all, they'd just use pirated windows
16:35
<cstk421>
lol
16:35
definitely would be expensive
16:35
this is a small law firm and they would sh** a brick if i tried to move them to linux
16:36
<alkisg>
With the windows-vm-over-ltsp solution, they would only see LDM, no linux at all
16:36
<cstk421>
that makes sense
16:36
i was really hoping to do this over the LAN but based on what your telling me that wont be possible
16:36
that really sucks. especially considering the time i spent on it :)
16:36
<alkisg>
And it's very easy to maintain it afterwards, because you only maintain one single VM with windows pro, not server
16:37
windows-vm-over-ltsp *is* over the LAN
16:37
Diskless computers, netbooted
16:37
<cstk421>
ok now im confused again
16:37
so how is it a fat client ?
16:37
sorry
16:37
<alkisg>
Fat clients in the ltsp vocabulary are diskless netbooted clients that use their own cpu
16:38
thins use the server cpu
16:38
standalone clients are what you were referring as fat
16:38
<cstk421>
ah
16:38
<alkisg>
I.e. the ones with a disk and a local OS
16:38
<cstk421>
so the ones in your example are connecting to the windows 10 vm via what protocol / method ?
16:38
<alkisg>
So in the solution I said, there's only one ltsp server installation, and a single windows vm, on a single disk.
16:38
No other disks in the whole computer lab, just one
16:38
<cstk421>
ok
16:39
<alkisg>
In LTSP, the root disk is access via NFS or NBD
16:39
<cstk421>
the shared home directories can be on the file server i assume
16:39
<alkisg>
The home directory via SSHFS or NFS
16:39
<cstk421>
ok
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16:50
<cstk421>
alkisg: for the user home directories can that be stored on a ms server running NFS ? or is that a bad idea ?
16:50
alkisg: once they are in the vm the network drives will work the same so i assume thats not an issue.
16:50
<alkisg>
If the server is stable, sure
16:51
You can even serve the nbd image and tftp over windows, so that you don't actually need an ltsp server at all
16:51
or you can use nfs instead of nbd...
16:51
<cstk421>
meaning running windows server for TS ?
16:51
i assume i still need PXE fucntionality for this to work
16:51
functionality*
16:52
<alkisg>
Yes, windows can easily support that
16:53
<championofcyrodi>
if i want a whole new image specific lts.conf and IMG, do i just run ltsp-build-client a second time, with a different name (e.g. amd64-v2), and update the DHCP server to use an alternate TFTP PXE linux config?
16:54
<cstk421>
i would assume using ltsp for user management would be much easier. with windows i would have to go active directory
16:54
<championofcyrodi>
i'm guessing the new pxe config would show up in something like, /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64-v2
16:54
?
16:55
cstk421: ltsp is not a replacement for AD
16:55
<alkisg>
cstk421: it depends, for example if you have 1 user per computer with autologin then it's pretty simple :) But yes in the general case, managing users in the ltsp server is much easier
16:55
championofcyrodi: please explain with more words your use case
16:55
<cstk421>
championofcyrodi: yes i understand that but to get the same simple user management i need LTSP would be a lot easier then AD
16:56
<championofcyrodi>
i have 40 clients in use with a single image called 'amd64' (fat client)
16:56
i would like to create a separate image to 'test'
16:57
we are integrating active directory authentication (kerberos, etc.) with a separate store for home folders which will use NFSv4.
16:57
(instead of sshfs)
16:57
so we would like to utilize the existing server, with a different image and lts.conf.
16:57
<alkisg>
So you need a different image *and* a different lts.conf?
16:57
<championofcyrodi>
right.
16:58
i see this:
16:58
found: /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/lts.conf
16:58
found: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf
16:58
found image: /opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img
16:58
<alkisg>
OK, then yes start by cp -a /opt/ltsp/amd64 /opt/ltsp/amd64-test, and then edit it, run ltsp-update-image etc
16:58
<championofcyrodi>
which implies the previous fat client i build 'amd64' is already self contained.
16:58
<alkisg>
Don't use /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/lts.conf
16:58
Only use the one from tftp
16:58
Delete the other one
16:58
<championofcyrodi>
gotcha, i think i've see that in the file header.
16:59
i have a meeting to go to at the moment, i will continue reading whatever you type when i return.
16:59* alkisg doesn't have anything else to reply to :)
17:02
<cstk421>
alkisg: hey thank you for all your help. I am going to go the route you suggested. Ill admin i will definitely need help if your around. Im setting up a win 10 vm now :)
17:27
<alkisg>
You're welcome, but unfortunately the correct thing to do here would be to commit support for this upstream, and I really don't have reasons to do so... :)
17:27* alkisg waves
17:27alkisg is now known as work_alkisg
17:34
<cstk421>
understood thanks
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18:23
<championofcyrodi>
alkisg: i'm curious about after copying the /opt/ltsp/amd64 image folder to something like /opt/ltsp/amd64-test, how with testing a seperate /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/ to provide alternative initrd/kernel parameters?
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18:26
<championofcyrodi>
if I re-run ltsp-build-client with --base amd64-test, would that not also create a new image, and also a new /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64-test configuration? I would like to specify the MAC address for 1 client in DHCP to utilize an alternate tftpboot path.
18:26
my understanding is that if I use the existing /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64 configuration, it will just boot my amd64 image.
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19:47
<nahoskins>
hey im getting the failed to mount error
19:47
resulting in being dropped to initramfs prompts
19:48
all ive found online is from a year or more ago
19:48
im using ltsp-pnp
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20:02
<maldridge>
nahoskins: can you confirm that the resource you are trying to mount exists?
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20:14
<nahoskins>
the nbd server?
20:14
its running
20:15
<maldridge>
yes, but can you mount it on say, your laptop?
20:16
<nahoskins>
im on the arch macbook right now
20:16
i can try mounting it from the server
20:16
what is it /dev/nbd0?
20:17
<maldridge>
mounting from the server can cause wierd race conditions, I'm pretty sure nbd is in the aur
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20:56
<nahoskins>
ok
20:56
kids have gone
20:56
ive got an hour before the janitor comes round to lock up
20:56
who can help me troubleshoot this
20:56
<maldridge>
oh, did this happen during your camp?
20:56
<nahoskins>
hehe
20:56
yep
20:57
<maldridge>
ouch, I'm in class, but I can help off and on until the quiz
20:57
<nahoskins>
...
20:57
ok so ive just disconnected the rest of the lab
20:57
set up a test client
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20:57
<nahoskins>
and its just... botted to ldm
20:57
so...
20:57
what gives
20:57
<maldridge>
so it worked fully, or your volume is still missing
20:58
<nahoskins>
seems to be working 100%
20:58
so now I have to start connecting machines
20:58
<maldridge>
has ubuntu run through any updates recently
20:58
<nahoskins>
yeah
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20:58
<nahoskins>
today it updated
20:58
<maldridge>
hrm, I wonder if the nbd-server was restarted as part of the update
20:58
that would account for clients just loosing the connection
20:59
<nahoskins>
the clients were all conencted, then i had trouble with one
20:59
restarted the nbd
20:59
and then NONE would connect
20:59
they were all giving me errors about mounting
20:59
none of them were mounting the nbd
20:59
and i was completely flummoxed
21:00
<maldridge>
so nbd works in 2 parts, there is the local mount, but there's also the nbd-client that creates the file device in /dev
21:00
if you restart the nbd-server, all the nbd-clients are kicked out and have no way to re-attach
21:00
<nahoskins>
rebooting did nothing
21:01
<maldridge>
uhh, that is interesting
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21:01
<nahoskins>
rebooted them all, pulled the cord out cuz i read somewhere maybe it was the memory not clearing
21:01
nothing
21:02
<maldridge>
did you have the expected devices in /dev?
21:02
<nahoskins>
until I give up, stick a movie on
21:02
<maldridge>
i.e. /dev/nbd0
21:02
<nahoskins>
luckilly it was at the end of camp
21:02
i have nbd0-15
21:03
<maldridge>
yeah, but how many of those are valid
21:03
the device will stick around even if the connection is truncated
21:03
<nahoskins>
hey
21:03
could this be because im using a raid set up???
21:03
with LVM
21:03
<maldridge>
that should all be transparent once you get out to the clients
21:03
I'm assuming the raid/lvm is on the server
21:03
<nahoskins>
yes
21:03
i cant see how
21:04
whats the best way to test for false nbds
21:04
all i can think of is lsblk
21:04
<maldridge>
the only time I've seen something like this before is when the network has been interrupted while I was connected to the server
21:04
lsblk would show you mounts, but not if they are valid
21:05
I think nbd-client has a way to do that, but I don't have nbd tools on my laptop, so I can't easily check
21:05
<nahoskins>
hold on
21:07
well the client has nbd0 mounted to /rofs
21:08
could it be a problem with the number of clients trying to connect???
21:08
<maldridge>
well, that is normal, but I am betting that nbd0 wasn't actually attatched to anything
21:08
<nahoskins>
the server has 16GB of RAM
21:08
its in raid config
21:08
so I'd have thought a dozen clients would be no poroblem
21:08
<maldridge>
you're doing minecraft, right?
21:08
<nahoskins>
yes
21:08
<maldridge>
local or server side?
21:08
<nahoskins>
that was working flawlessly before
21:08
local
21:08
<maldridge>
shouldn't be ram then
21:09
<nahoskins>
its ltsp-pnp
21:09
and its all fat client
21:09
<maldridge>
definitly not ram
21:09
<nahoskins>
the server is just really for nbd
21:09
so .. wth
21:10
im just going to start connecting the switches
21:10
see if maybe theres... something wrong there
21:10
<maldridge>
wait
21:10
are these the switches the lab normally has?
21:10
or did you bring these in?
21:11* maldridge bets on a loopback somewhere
21:14
<alkisg>
nahoskins: are you using ipappend 3?
21:14
Or, check for rogue dhcp servers...
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21:20
<maldridge>
back in a bit
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22:04
<nahoskins>
i brought them in
22:04
gigabit ethernet switches all using cat 6
22:04
ok, so for the last two hours of camp
22:04
none of the machines would boot
22:04
I have done nothing since then, other than google and turn on cosmos
22:04
now
22:04
two hours after the end of camp
22:04
i have methodically gone through the lab
22:05
disconnecting everything
22:05
reconnecting everything
22:05
i have almost the entire lab booting
22:05
i have no idea what changed
22:06
maybe the switches overheat?!
22:06
I cant think of anything
22:06
theories, paranoid or not, are welcome
22:07
maybe its the NSA
22:11
<maldridge>
no, switches shouldn't overheat like that. I guess its possible you could saturate them, depending on the throughput of the backplane
22:11
I still think there was a loopback or something similar in the network somewhere
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22:36
<nahoskins>
I have no idea
22:36
also suddenly gnome-fallback is working
22:36
before it was limping along
22:37
all in all... its ALL suddenly working
22:37
I have no idea what changed
22:37
I really hope it stays just as it is over night
22:37
I need to get home
22:37
thanks for the support
22:39
i wish you could image life
22:39
one day..
22:42
<maldridge>
good luck with it
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