IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 4 April 2009   (all times are UTC)

00:04
<ibmanoj>
thanks!!
00:05
info: LTSP client installation completed successfully
00:06
<vagrantc>
ibmanoj: glad it worked. haven't tested the file:// URLs much.
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00:16
<vagrantc>
ah, the quandry with splitting ltspfsd into two packages is that it makes sense to add ltspfsd and cdpinger, as they're binaries, and the rest are scripts, so it can be an arch: all package ... but cdpinger calls the udev scripts ... so it would have to depend on the other package.
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03:40
<ttoom>
Is there anyone tried ltsp on gentoo? How it works?
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06:38* Egyptian[Home] dreams of the day when ltsp has multiseat integration .. drool
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07:33
<cyberorg>
Egyptian[Home], whats that?
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07:54
<Egyptian[Home]>
cyberorg: multiseat X ?
07:54
cyberorg: its where you have a single pc where multiple ppl sit on it
07:54
that is
07:54
4 video cards
07:54
4 keyboards
07:54
4 mice
07:54
usb of course
07:54
<cyberorg>
ah ok
07:55
<Egyptian[Home]>
and xorg.conf is set up so that each keyboard, mouse and video are all together per person
07:55
imagine what you can do with multiseat ltsp :P
07:58
<cyberorg>
http://www.omni-ts.com/linux-desktop/
07:58
they do SLED multiplier
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08:40
<zoid_>
hi people
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08:41
<zoid_>
one question:does the usb image of gPXE works if I dd it into a hdd? if not, is there any way to use an hdd to boot via ethernet?
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09:49
<muttley_>
is there a way for remember last used language (english, italian) and last desktop manager (gnome, kde)...for any users?
09:55
<Egyptian[Home]>
cyberorg: thats userful as in http://sf.net/projects/userful
09:56
<cyberorg>
Egyptian[Home], right
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10:31
<epsas>
`/win 5
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11:13
<muttley_>
is there a way for remember last used language (english, italian) and last desktop manager (gnome, kde)...for any users?
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11:23
<muttley_>
how can do shutdown with "autologin" enabled!?!?
11:29
<Ryan52>
very carefully? =P
11:30
oh, won't it just shutdown when you log out?
11:40
<muttley_>
it's impossible, because if i enable autologin in lts.conf when logout the system login again
11:41
i set this option LDM_AUTOLOGIN = True in [default]
11:44
<Ryan52>
hm
11:44* Ryan52 thinks that it should shut down afterwards
11:44
<muttley_>
i use ubuntu 8.10
11:45* Ryan52 will ask vagrantc about it later, I think me and him were the people who wrote the autologin code..
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15:17
<Memfis>
Evening all, Is anyone able to assist me with mounting local devices using ltsp on XUbuntu 8.10? I can see them mounting on the server under /media/username/device however it's failing to loop them back and mount them locally on the ltsp client.
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15:24
<Memfis>
fails if I run ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add" as root on the client
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15:30
<Ryan52>
Memfis: any errors?
15:30
<Memfis>
Basically just says failed.
15:30
is there a verbose option?
15:31
<Ryan52>
could you paste the real error instead of paraphrasing?
15:31* Ryan52 still won't be able to help probably, but ya..
15:31
<Memfis>
ok, give me a mo to write command down again, nip next door, run command, write error, nip back and type it for ya :)
15:31Eeyore-Jr is now known as Ahmuck
15:34
<Memfis>
no can do. I have two clients, one where ctrl-alt-f1 works and one that doesn't (go figure, they boot the same). The one that does do it, is in use :(
15:35
why would one client do ctrl-alt-f1 work but not another?
15:36
s'ok ignore that, they have a stupid key/b where you have to push function too. brb with command result.
15:39
ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add"
15:40
wrote 57c3ad.... size 32, waiting
15:40
Error: /media/memfis is not mounted
15:41
device is mounted on server as /media/memfis/{device} is it looking in the wrong place?
15:43
same error as http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-server-73/usb-mounted-on-ltsp-client-does-not-show-on-desktop-691186/
15:44
device is formatted as fat32 and does work on other linux systems. I can browse to /media/memfis/device and view it's contents. It's just not looping back properly
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16:04
<Memfis>
going to try http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg32796.html
16:09
hmm doesn't seam to apply
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18:08
<mathesis>
how can i run thing client with virtualbox and ltsp is compatible?
18:11
<Ryan52>
mathesis: should work fine.
18:12
mathesis: is the server the host machine, another machine on your network, or another virtual machine?
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18:14
<mathesis>
virtual machie in server
18:15
install virtual machine(thing client) in server ltsp 5
18:15
*virtual
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19:34
<jamey-uk>
Does anyone know if it would be *at all possible* to run an LTSP thin client with a measly 12 MB of RAM?
19:35
<vagrantc>
you'll have to wait for LTSP 6.0
19:35
<jamey-uk>
vagrantc: why so?
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19:39
<jammcq>
jamey-uk: 12mb is barely enough ram to get a kernel booted, let alone such niceties as an Xserver
19:40
<jamey-uk>
jammcq: are you the same jam on the wiki, i.e. jam@ltsp.org?
19:40
<jammcq>
yeah
19:40* vagrantc 's first real linux machine had 8MB, and vagrantc liked it.
19:40
<jammcq>
we used to play with 8mb thin clients all the time
19:41
but that was with 2.2 and 2.4 kernels
19:41
2.6 has just gotten to big
19:41
<vagrantc>
them's was the days.
19:41* jammcq can't say he misses those days tho
19:41* vagrantc remebers having to upgrade from 16 to 24MB just because of 16 bit color depth
19:42
<vagrantc>
8 bit not good enough for you?
19:42
<jammcq>
yeah, 256 colors just doesn't cut it in today's world
19:45
<jamey-uk>
jammcq: ignore the email I sent you then :)
19:45
<jammcq>
heh
19:45
<jamey-uk>
I've got a real old machine, and I'm not one to trash anything, so...
19:45
<jammcq>
just saw it
19:46
<jamey-uk>
hehe
19:46
<vagrantc>
might be able to use it as a disked thin client ... but even that's questionable.
19:46
<jammcq>
I think the kernel is expecting at least a 586 chip
19:46
<vagrantc>
debian still supports 486
19:47
<jammcq>
in the standard kernel?
19:47
<vagrantc>
yeah
19:47
<jammcq>
hmm
19:47
<vagrantc>
well, there's a "standard" 486 kernel, and a "standard" 686 kernel...
19:47
<jammcq>
ah
19:47
<jamey-uk>
hmm, so there's certainly a possibility somewhere in there
19:47
<vagrantc>
it uses the 486 kernel for the install, and installs the appropriate kernel.
19:48
jamey-uk: don't hold your breath :)
19:48
<jamey-uk>
if I got a working kernel, it would most like be 2.6 though, which would fail miserably in such low ram
19:48
interesting
19:48
well, I found some old posts where jammcq talked about having a thin client w/ 12mb ram but it must've been back in the days of 2.2/2.4 kernels I guess
19:49
<jammcq>
yeah, with LTSP-4.2 prolly. we managed to pare that thing down to be pretty lean
19:49
<jamey-uk>
I'm trying to make this a 'case in point' that even the oldest hardware that seems completely useless can be put to some good use
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19:49
<jammcq>
but in the interest of supporting newer thin clients with newer chipsets, we had to make a decision
19:49
<jamey-uk>
so 4.2 -> 5.x is a complete rewrite or rehash?
19:49
ah right
19:49
<jammcq>
oh yes
19:49
about as different as you can get
19:49
<jamey-uk>
heh
19:50
but perhaps I could get an older copy of debian say, that has a 486-supported kernel that works, ltsp 4.2 and play around until I get a booting 12mb thin client?
19:50
<jammcq>
you might
19:50
<vagrantc>
still linux, glibc and other gnu tools, still X.org ... but that's about where the similarities end
19:51
<jammcq>
depends on what client apps you want to run
19:51
most apps out there send lots of pixmaps to the X-server, which needs lots of ram
19:51
<jamey-uk>
oh, really? i thought it would be a matter of "if it can fit the kernel somehow and boot" then it would be pretty fine
19:51
but I guess not?
19:51
<jammcq>
heh, we wish
19:52
and the Xserver isn't very graceful when it can't allocate more ram for the pixmaps
19:52
<vagrantc>
it needs room to *do* something other than simply boot
19:52
<jamey-uk>
ahh, right, of course - I guess I can't forger that it is a network GUI server and so must have some traffic, CPU and RAM usage and requirements
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19:52
<jammcq>
it just sort of pukes
19:52
<jamey-uk>
ah, pfft
19:52
<jammcq>
taking your session with it
19:52
<jamey-uk>
damn, I really wanted to get this to work as well - would be quite cool to have an old 486 laptop rehashed into a tiny box as a thin client that produces no noise, very little heat and uses a few watts of power
19:53
<jammcq>
even in the very very early days of LTSP, we were deploying a minimum of 32mb of ram
19:53
<vagrantc>
jamey-uk: with a disk for swap, you might get somewhere.
19:53
<jamey-uk>
what about if it was limited to 8-bit ;) or are pixmaps nothing to do with that at the X server level..?
19:53
<vagrantc>
jamey-uk: but probably not very far.
19:53
<jamey-uk>
really, what about a CompactFlash card hooked in via a CF-to-IDE converter on the motherboard?
19:54
<vagrantc>
jamey-uk: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=63327.97.115.95.236.1238631727.squirrel%40mail.freegeek.org&forum_name=ltsp-discuss
19:54
<jammcq>
that's only good as a boot method. you still need ram to run things
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19:54
<jamey-uk>
ah
19:54
so you're saying that some swap space on a mounted CompactFlash card is only good for boot, then the kernel/x server is still gonna need actual ram to run apps basically?
19:55
Ooh, Lessdisks! xD
19:55
<jammcq>
careful using compact flash for swapping. flash memory has a limited write-cycle, usually of 50,000 writes
19:55
using that for swap would probably use that up pretty quickly
19:56
<jamey-uk>
per block/sector on the card, and it's been upped to over 100,000 cycles and more with the advent of SSDs - new way of writing to blocks afaik
19:56
<jammcq>
newer flash, like they're using in place of harddrives in the mini laptops has a different kind of flash that doesn't suffer that problem
19:56
<jamey-uk>
but true, dangerous nonetheless
19:56
:D
19:56
hehe
19:56
I'm guessing they didn't port/isn't the same kind of Flash memory used in CompactFlash as in the newer SSD-type flash memory?
19:57
<jammcq>
right, I think
19:57
<jamey-uk>
gr
19:57
sounds like the 'Lessdisks' project is a little controversial with the naming issue?
19:58
Still, this sounds perfect: "Minimum hardware requirements significantly reduced from earlier versions: 8MB of ram, 25MHz processor. putting the *thin* back in thin-client"
19:58
oh
19:58* jamey-uk realizes that it's an April Fool's :(
19:59
<jammcq>
yeah, that crazy vagrantc
19:59
<jamey-uk>
scroll down a few posts, just a hoax
19:59
once it got to Commodore 64 and ZX-81 references...
20:00
so, is it true that in ltsp 6 there'll be lesser ram requirements, or is this all one big joke?
20:01
<jammcq>
there is no ltsp-6
20:01
<jamey-uk>
oh, gotcha
20:01
sorry, obviously led myself on a gullable wild goose chase there :)
20:01
<jammcq>
it's all in vagrantc's humorous mind
20:01
<jamey-uk>
heh, go figure
20:01
so I guess my little idea for reusing this age-old hardware is impossible *sigh*
20:02
<jammcq>
well... it all depends on what you call an "acceptible performance"
20:02
if you didn't mind it being slow, and all you wanted to do is run Xterm, you'd probably be Ok
20:03
<jamey-uk>
hm, well - I guess enough to not piss the user off whilst using it ? :)
20:03
I may as well just have a lightweight linux distro on there instead if all I was doing was running xterm
20:04* vagrantc notes that many others played along with my humorous mind
20:05
<jamey-uk>
so is there a major difference if I was running, say, Ted vs Abiword vs OpenOffice.org Writer in terms of pimaps and RAM usage? I guess the idea is that X has to draw everything locally that is sent from the server
20:05
<jammcq>
jamey-uk: yeah, OOo is gonna have lots of fonts and icons that get sent to the Xserver
20:05
Ted... not so much
20:05
I suppose Abiword would be somewhere in the middle, prolly leaning closer to OOo
20:06
<jamey-uk>
yeah I was thinking if it was, say, a really lightweight window manager and so on, and then a few select X apps, like Ted, Dillo and so forth, with as many icons/pixmaps disabled everywhere
20:06
(...it might just make it work reasonably better than 'not worth it')
20:06
<jammcq>
if you can live with that environment, you'd probably be able to get something to come up
20:07
<jamey-uk>
what sort of 'slowness' do you experience? is it akin to the rdp protocol where everything just freezes temporarily or do particular windows/elements freeze or redraw slowly
20:08
<jammcq>
booting would be horrifically slow. past that, launching apps would probably be noticably slow
20:08
if an app has drop-down menus, you'd probably see some slowness
20:09
<jamey-uk>
ouch, yeah that's just not really worth it, considering the whole premise and philosophy of ltsp is for potentially really old kit to be used to feel like snappy new stuff with most of the bells and whistles; trying and failing to get it to work in only 12mb ram is a slap in the face to ltsp a little
20:10
hm, what about if I had a whopping... 20mb of ram to play with? would that make it more fair game? ;)
20:11
<jammcq>
certainly 20mb is better than 12, but keep in mind your processor speed is pretty slow too
20:11
aren't you working with a 486-50 ?
20:12
<jamey-uk>
yeah, afraid so
20:12
DX2 though ;)
20:12
<jammcq>
the slowest machines we used were Pentium-166's
20:12
<jamey-uk>
woah
20:12
okay, obviously I'm being quite optimistic here then
20:13* jamey-uk believes he must be able to get something good out of this old hunk o' junk
20:15
<jamey-uk>
jammcq: heh: http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg18929.html
20:15
so by you're reckoning in '04 it'd run well on LTSP 2.x :D
20:16
<jammcq>
"run well" ?
20:16
<jamey-uk>
heh, no, I was messing
20:16
<jammcq>
ah
20:17
<jamey-uk>
ah well, at least I tried exploring this avenue as a possible use for it
20:17
hmm *back to the drawing board*
20:18
is there any way I can optimize the X server and consequently how much RAM and CPU it uses and requires? different protocols, compression, bit depth, resolution, that sort of thing?
21:01
Is anyone around?
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