IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 28 February 2010   (all times are UTC)

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08:48
<rethus>
hi @ all
08:48
have some questions about ltsp and bandwidth
08:48
how many bandwith per client should i have to use ltsp in a vpn-network
08:48
programms: only one siphone and webbrowser to display a intranet-webpage
08:50
are there some calculationg tools?
08:52
<alkisg>
No, not really
08:52
Also, you might want to run the sipphone as a localapp if your clients are good enough. That would also save bandwidth.
08:53
(and if you ran the webbrower as a localapp too, then you needn't worry about the bandwidth at all :))
08:57
<rethus>
alksig: but all happend on the server ?
08:57
or have i to install a lokal OS for ltsp?
08:58
how much bandwith i need for one client?
08:59
<alkisg>
rethus: what are your client specs? (ram / cpu)?
09:00
<rethus>
alkisg: i can eyplain shortly what i try to do, so you have more informations...
09:01
i want to create a vpn over www. The clients connect via sip-client to an Asterisk (telephone-server) and see an webapplication which manage this asterisk.
09:02
the clinets should be as small as possible and should use as small as possible bandwidth
09:02
so the clients should record the audiostream local.
09:02
the firefox browser and the sipphone can run at the clients (if possible)
09:03
I need many connections on one server... so do u think its possible?
09:05
<alkisg>
How are you going to boot the clients? You'd need a local boot server.
09:06
But sure, if your clients are good enough to run the sipphone and the web browser locally, then you don't need much bandwidth.
09:08
<rethus>
can i configure ltsp to cun like a local os?
09:08
what means boot-server? is an usb-stick enough
09:09
<alkisg>
I mean that in usual LTSP installations, the ltsp server is in the local network, not over www.
09:09
You can't boot your clients with a usb stick in LTSP.
09:10
(there _are_ some people who have done this, but it's not standard practice)
09:11
<rethus>
thats a problem
09:11
the server is hostet in a hosting-company
09:11
the clinets are the only machine in ech location all over germany
09:12
means: frankfurt (one thinclient... no local network) - cologne (1 thinclinet, no local network) and so on
09:12
vision is to start the thinclinent, connect automaticly ia vpn to the server and doeing the whole work
09:12
u know what i mean
09:13
<alkisg>
Yes, I know what you mean. But LTSP isn't designed to be used that way.
09:13
It would need patching to get it to boot from USB sticks.
09:13
<rjune>
rethus, you'll probably need to use NX
09:13
<alkisg>
It's doable, but coding skills would be required to do it.
09:14
Or a live usb stick :)
09:14
<rjune>
or a CD
09:14
<rethus>
rjune: jes, i see freenx and x2go... what are the best and easyest nx u think?
09:14
<alkisg>
E.g.: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
09:14
<rethus>
so i only wan't to be shure, that ltsp not work for my needings
09:15
<rjune>
LTSP isn't the best tool for you.
09:15
<rethus>
what is your tipp?
09:15
<rjune>
A Custom Ubuntu or Fedora liveCD is probably a better path
09:15
<rethus>
what should i use for my needings
09:15
ok.
09:17
target is to keep the technik on clientside as small as possible. so i didn't have to support so much time
09:17
therefore i think about thinclient
09:17
only power on, and all works.. no updates, no crashed systems after missconfiguration and so on.
09:17
<alkisg>
rethus: how fast are your network connections?
09:18
<rethus>
as small as possible (but till 6Mbit)
09:18
better if 1mbit is possible)
09:18
<alkisg>
Then you'd better *not* boot from www.
09:18
<rethus>
or only isdn
09:18
ok
09:18
so i use nx ?
09:18
<alkisg>
You'd need a day to boot from web by using isdn :)
09:19
<rethus>
:D
09:19* alkisg would go for a live usb stick.
09:19
<rethus>
so i create a minimalized linux (or use damn small linux) and do an nx connection?
09:19
<alkisg>
Why would you do an nx connection?
09:19
didn't you say that they'd need to record the audio locally?
09:20
<rethus>
the software is used every weeks one till two times.. i'm not shure if usb-stick livetime is long enough
09:20
yes
09:20
<alkisg>
With live usb sticks, data isn't *written* to them (usually). So there isn't a problem with the life time
09:21
<rethus>
but usb-stick have also limited reading-times ?! (i'm not shure)
09:21
sure
09:21
<alkisg>
But if you're going to use a hard disk to record the audio, then you can use the same disk to store the OS
09:22
<rethus>
jes, thats no problem
09:23
so o better do an small linux installation on local pc, and use NX ?
09:24
<alkisg>
I still don't understand why you'd need nx
09:25
The sipphone and the web browser connect to the server.
09:25
Why would you need nx?
09:26
<rethus>
jes, i think i didn't need it...
09:26
if i connected via vpn, i'm in the same network and can directly use sip
09:27
ok. thanks for your support. if no thin-client is possible. i think i do a normaly vpn connection and normaly os installation on clientside
09:27
thanks
09:29
<alkisg>
Thin clients require much more bandwidth that isdn or 1mbps
09:29
They're not suited to your use case.
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09:35
<rethus>
i know now. thanks a lot
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11:22
<ark_>
hi, i'm trying to use ltsp5 with thin clients encore entc-1000, is it possible?, the docs say that this thin client supports only xdmcp
11:22
can i use xdmcp with ltsp5?
11:22
<Appiah>
ltsp does not use xdmcp
11:23
<jammcq>
you won't have some of the finer features of LDM
11:23
you'll miss out on audio, local devices and local apps
11:23
it doesn't use xdmcp, because xdmcp is not secure
11:23
<ark_>
jammcq: it's no problem
11:23
jammcq: i just need those thin clients to work
11:23
<jammcq>
it's almost trivial to snoop on the network and capture passwords
11:23
<Appiah>
what does says it only supports xdmcp?
11:24
what doc*
11:24
<ark_>
Appiah: the manuals of the thin clients says they only support xdmcp
11:24
<Appiah>
well can it PXEboot?
11:24
<jammcq>
ark_: if your thin clients support xdmcp, then you wouldn't be using LTSP at all.
11:24
<ark_>
Appiah: i already installed ltsp5 in ubuntu9.04, but it doesn't work
11:25
Appiah: mmm, not sure, but it's supposed to be in the nic
11:25
<jammcq>
you just need to enable remote logins in your login manager and point your thin clients at that server
11:25
<ark_>
jammcq: mmm, true, but xdmcp is not working for me
11:25
<Appiah>
well ltsp uses pxe , how did you try it?
11:25
<jammcq>
ark_: did you enable it on the server?
11:25
<Appiah>
since you say "it doesn't work" and you are not pxe booting ,your not using ltsp..
11:25
<ark_>
Appiah: mmm, i have not tried pxe on those thin clients, not sure if it's possible
11:26
jammcq: yes, it's enabled, and it works, but too slow
11:26
<jammcq>
what's too slow?
11:26
<ark_>
Appiah: mmm, I'm not sure how to use ltsp with those thin clients
11:26
<Appiah>
well check the bios on the thin client
11:26
<ark_>
jammcq: mmm, especifically flash, but the server is very powerful
11:26
<Appiah>
yes XDMCP is slow
11:27
<jammcq>
XDMCP is simply a method to get logged in. Once logged in, you'd be using the "X" protocol
11:27
<ark_>
Appiah: jammcq: thanks, i'll try to see if it's possible with the bios
11:27
Appiah: yep, too slow
11:27
<jammcq>
and you'd be using that regardless of whether you are doing LDM with LTSP, or XDMCP
11:27
<Appiah>
enable "Lan boot rom" / Pxe boot
11:28
<jammcq>
what kind of CPU is in the thin client?
11:28
<ark_>
jammcq: mmm, not sure...
11:29
jammcq: yep, true about the login..., i'm not sure how to use pxe with thos thin clients
11:29
<Appiah>
check the bios settings on the thin client
11:29
<jammcq>
if it's not in the bios, then you probably can't
11:30
<Appiah>
whats the name and manufacture of the thin clients?
11:30
<ark_>
Appiah: it's a thin client encore entc-1000
11:30
Appiah: i'm searching if it's possibble to enable the pxe boot
11:30
<jammcq>
how old is it?
11:31
<Appiah>
arm processor?
11:31
<ark_>
jammcq: i'd say it's around 2008
11:31
jammcq: they're low cost thin clients
11:31
jammcq: the processor, I think it's a cirologic...
11:32
<jammcq>
it's probably slow because it's a very slow processor
11:32
<Appiah>
* Processor: Cirrus Logic EP9307 ARM 200 MHz
11:32
<ark_>
Appiah: yep...
11:32
<johnny>
you're gonna have to build an arm chroot... fun..
11:32
<Appiah>
well build a arm chroot , and pxeboot the client , then you will be using LTSP
11:32
<johnny>
hmm.. are there arm binaries for ldm and ltspfs ?
11:33
<jammcq>
No clue
11:33
<Appiah>
umm
11:33
oh wait
11:33
I was thinking ppc
11:33
<johnny>
hmm.. there are arm chroots for specific arms
11:33
<Appiah>
for some reason
11:33
<johnny>
idon't know if it covers those..
11:34
<Appiah>
it does not
11:34
<ark_>
mmm, thanks to all, it's true about the arm, i'll be trying that
11:36
<jammcq>
I wouldn't expect great performance with flash
11:36
it's only a 200Mhz
11:37
<Appiah>
there is ltspfs in arm
11:37
and such
11:37
<ark_>
jammcq: mmm, true, does ltsp support arm?
11:37
<Appiah>
so you can use ltsp
11:37
but it would be slow
11:37
<ark_>
Appiah: mmm, yep, maybe slow, i'm just trying these thin clients
11:37
<Appiah>
since you got it setup already
11:37
<jammcq>
how much ram ?
11:37
<Appiah>
you could just try
11:38
just enable pxe on those clients..
11:38
<ark_>
jammcq: mmm, the thin client has 512 MB
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11:38
<ark_>
jammcq: the server has right now 4GB, but maybe we'll get another 4
11:39
Appiah: i'll try that, and does ltsp support arm?
11:39
Appiah: i'm using ubuntu9.04
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11:39
<Appiah>
like I said, there is arm packages for some of the things in the chroot , I havent checked _all_ packages but you could simply try
11:39
ltsp-build-client --arch=arm
11:40
<ark_>
jeje, thanks Appiah
11:40
<johnny>
that shouldn't work
11:40
<Appiah>
huh?
11:40
<johnny>
Appiah, it's just like ppc
11:40
you can't build it on x86
11:41
without using some sort of emulator
11:41
<Appiah>
oh
11:41
<johnny>
unless they fixed that..
11:41
<ark_>
johnny: mmm, that's bad
11:41
<Appiah>
I thought building ppc went fine on a x86/x86_64 server
11:41
<johnny>
really.. if it's just a matter of unpacking binaries (which it should be)
11:41
Appiah, perahps that has changed in 2 years
11:41
<Appiah>
and then thought arm would be just as ok
11:41
<johnny>
but i had to build my ppc chroot on a mac
11:41
<Appiah>
ok
11:41
<johnny>
imac actually..
11:42
even though it should just be a matter of unpacking binaries.. that doesn't seem to be the case
11:42
ogra, are you here?
11:42
Appiah, also.. there are various arm arches
11:42
i'm not sure which is required for which proc
11:43
ark_, you might have to setup some netboot situation to build the chroot on arm
11:43
or convince some arm users to build you a chroot
11:43
<ark_>
johnny: mmm, sounds complicated
11:43
<johnny>
would be nice if ogra could convince canonical to provide arm chroots as a zip
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11:43
<johnny>
err tarball
11:43
just download and unpack
11:43
<ark_>
johnny: apparently, ubuntu does not support arm yet, they have some betas
11:44
<johnny>
ark_, sure.. but they are probably supported enough overall
11:44
the needs for the chroot are slim, unlike a full distro
11:44
as long as the boot stuff works, and X works.. the ubuntu part is good enough
11:44
the only question then is whether ldm/ltspfs works on arm
11:44
<ark_>
there's a thread in ltsp-discuss about arm
11:44
<johnny>
well don't be concerned about the ubuntu parts
11:45
if one of them has an arm setup.. ask them to tar up their chroot for your distro
11:45
and get it to you somehow
11:45
that would be simple enough
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11:48
<ark_`>
mmm, i had problems with my pc, and lost connection...
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11:49
<ark_`>
mmm, in the list, someone asked if it was possible to use arm if they don't use gnome, but something like xfce
11:49
maybe it's complicated
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11:53
<Appiah>
woah
11:58
<johnny>
well that's irrelevent from the ltsp side of things ark_ .. since it runs on the server
11:59
<ark_>
johnny: mmm, i understand, then, it's enough with the basic packages
12:00
<johnny>
and the ltsp packages..
12:10
<vagrantc>
for the record, i added cross-architecture support to debian's ltsp about 8 months ago.
12:10
though the only one that works for me is armel.
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12:11
<vagrantc>
you just need to have the qemu-user-static package installed
12:11
it doesn't automatically set up network booting, and you need to know which kernel to use...
12:11
but it actually builds the chroot.
12:11
johnny: on debian, it's more than just unpacking binaries because of the post-install scripts.
12:15
<ark_>
than q
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12:24
<johnny>
vagrantc, taht's why i suggested he find somebody to share a tarball with all the binaries unpacked and whatnot
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14:34
<vagrantc>
johnny: with arm it's pretty difficult, as you need to get the exact right kernel
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15:29
<AndyGraybeal>
can someone walk me through applying this patch to my ltsp? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17978568/udev.patch
15:30
it's from this forum: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/273147
15:30
i know this might be frustrating that i don't know how to do this on my own.. but i'm still learning. if there are documents that i can read to do this i would be thankful for links to those as well.
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15:35
<AndyGraybeal>
it says that the bug was fixed in 0.5.3-2ubuntu1, and i have 5.1.29-0ubuntu3
15:35
er atleast i think i do
15:36
ah ltspfs....
15:36
0.5.5-0ubuntu1
15:37
when i plug in a usb stick to the client, it doesn't work.
15:38
hopefully someone can help me.
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15:58
<AndyGraybeal>
when i logon a the same user on two terminals, and i run a program.. that program sometimes pops on up the other terminal! how do i get this to stop from happening?
16:00
<vagrantc>
don't log in with the same user in multiple places :P
16:00
<AndyGraybeal>
hmm.. okay
16:00
<vagrantc>
most modern GUI software is too stupid to distinguish.
16:00
<AndyGraybeal>
can multiple users share the same desktop?
16:01
or the same 'documents' folder?
16:01
<vagrantc>
you can definitely set up shared folders.
16:01
<johnny>
no
16:01
ah.. yes.. shared is the way to go
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16:03
<AndyGraybeal>
thank you
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18:10
<johnny>
is the fatclient plugin supposed to work still?
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