IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 10 November 2010   (all times are UTC)

00:07artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp
00:20alkisg has joined #ltsp
00:53alkisg has quit IRC
01:12ltspbot` has joined #ltsp
01:12ltspbot has quit IRC
01:13sbalneav has joined #ltsp
01:19alkisg has joined #ltsp
01:22gentgeen__ has joined #ltsp
01:36
<alkisg>
!disable_compiz
01:36
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "disable_compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
01:48gorkhaan has joined #ltsp
02:17
<hahlo>
g'morning, noticed that if I make some file change on ltsp-server it takes a while before I see it in fatclient, first thought that I have to log out or reboot fatclient but just waiting is enough, is there some cache somewhere?
02:18arthurl has joined #ltsp
02:18
<arthurl>
hi
02:18
sorry to ask this again
02:18
I seem to have a problem with /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/P00-ltsp-cluster
02:19
I don't quite understand why it removes .ssh/know_hosts
02:19
manually trying to connect to port 8001 of my ldm server doens't work
02:19
is this port open temporarily ?
02:21rickogden has joined #ltsp
02:27
<arthurl>
we are considering removing this script since it seems to be useful only when you have numerous servers that regularly change
02:34otavio has quit IRC
03:00bobby_C has joined #ltsp
03:02mikkel has joined #ltsp
04:20ogra has joined #ltsp
04:20ogra has joined #ltsp
04:31daya has joined #ltsp
04:46Trixboxer has joined #ltsp
04:50
<alkisg>
!xauthority
04:50
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "xauthority" :: to access the client X session from a local root shell, try: eval $(tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/$(pidof -s ldm gdm-simple-greeter gnome-session | cut -d' ' -f1)/environ | egrep '^DISPLAY=|^XAUTHORITY=') && export DISPLAY XAUTHORITY
04:51
<arthurl>
!P00-ltsp-cluster
04:51
<ltspbot`>
arthurl: Error: "P00-ltsp-cluster" is not a valid command.
05:18vmlintu has joined #ltsp
05:24daya has quit IRC
05:46
<arthurl>
has anyone got LOCAL_DEV working on a ltsp-cluster setup ?
05:46
we're having problems with FUSE
05:46
FUSE is compiled in the kernel
05:46hondak_ has left #ltsp
05:47
<arthurl>
/lib/udev/ltspfs_entry add sdb auto gives an error
05:47
"/dev/fuse not writeable"
05:47otavio has joined #ltsp
05:47
<arthurl>
# ls -alh /dev/fuse
05:47
crw-rw-rw- 1 root fuse 10, 229 Nov 10 11:27 /dev/fuse
06:05
<mnemoc>
alkisg: could this compiz thing be worked around on lts.conf ?
06:06
<alkisg>
mnemoc: no, it's a gconf setting
06:06
It's possible to make a script that processes some lts.conf variable and changes the setting, but there currently isn't any such option, and the best way anyway is to get it solved upstream in gnome-wm or compiz
06:07
<mnemoc>
GideonRomm said in the ticket a "helper" saying if he could ask an script of the machine is compiz compatible he could solve it on the LTSP side
06:07
ok
06:07
err
06:08
s/saying//
06:09
<alkisg>
I think if such a script existed, then gnome-wm could just use it instead of us
06:09
<mnemoc>
true
06:12
<alkisg>
Btw I think I remotely saw another card that experienced the same problem in a normal ubuntu installation, openchrome-based again
06:12
<mnemoc>
so openchrome is advertising itself incorrectly?
06:12
<alkisg>
So any LTSP-side scripts wouldn't work there...
06:13
Maybe, or maybe gnome-wm isn't checking all the correct values
06:44
mnemoc: just added 2 comments in the bug report
07:00
<mgariepy>
arthurl, does your user is a member of fuse group ?
07:00
<arthurl>
yes
07:02
mgariepy, the error seems to come from the application server
07:02
on which # ls -alh /dev/fuse
07:02
crw-rw---- 1 root fuse 10, 229 Oct 30 21:15 /dev/fuse
07:03
did a chmod a+rw to see how much further it would get me
07:03
<mgariepy>
$ ls -las /dev/fuse
07:03
0 crw-rw-rw- 1 root fuse 10, 229 2010-10-18 07:54 /dev/fuse
07:03
that's what i have on our server here.
07:03
<arthurl>
and go this : fuse: failed to exec fusermount: Permission denied
07:03
Error: /tmp/.arthur-ltspfs/usbdisk-sdb-sdb is not mounted
07:04
<mgariepy>
ls -las /bin/fusermount
07:04
32 -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 31328 2010-09-27 05:21 /bin/fusermount
07:04
<arthurl>
# ls -las /usr/bin/fusermount
07:04
28 -rwsr-xr-- 1 root fuse 28200 Sep 21 09:14 /usr/bin/fusermount
07:05
<mgariepy>
which distro ?
07:06
<arthurl>
debian
07:06
chmod a+x seems to unblock the situation
07:06
weird since connected user is part of fuse group
07:06
<mgariepy>
indeed
07:07
do you add them to the group with pam_group ?
07:07MorningSon has joined #ltsp
07:13
<alkisg>
!learn socat as one way to share a console with a remote person is: [local pc] socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 [remote pc] socat SYSTEM:"sleep 1 && exec screen -x",pty,stderr tcp:server:5500 & screen -l
07:13
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: Error: "local" is not a valid command.
07:14
<alkisg>
!learn socat as one way to share a console with a remote person is: (local pc) socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 (remote pc) socat SYSTEM:"sleep 1 && exec screen -x",pty,stderr tcp:server:5500 & screen -l
07:14
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
07:14
<mgariepy>
!socat
07:14
<ltspbot`>
mgariepy: "socat" :: one way to share a console with a remote person is: (local pc) socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 (remote pc) socat SYSTEM:"sleep 1 && exec screen -x",pty,stderr tcp:server:5500 & screen -l
07:14
<mgariepy>
nice :)
07:14
<alkisg>
ltspbot is very handy sometimes :D
07:15
<mgariepy>
note taking bot ! :)
07:16
alkisg, did you tests remote apps with fat client ?
07:16
<alkisg>
mgariepy: no, I'm not using either local or remote apps, so any tests would be very simplistic...
07:16
<mgariepy>
ok
07:18robehend1 has joined #ltsp
07:22marcellodj has joined #ltsp
07:23
<marcellodj>
Morning all
07:23
<robehend1>
Morning
07:24
<marcellodj>
i want ask help for the following: just installed opensuse + ltsp (kiwi) and all is working,except that i can't see incons on thins just words!!!
07:24
<alkisg>
!kiwi-ltsp
07:24
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "kiwi-ltsp" :: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
07:25
<alkisg>
Hmmm it should also mention the irc channel there...
07:25
!forget kiwi-ltsp
07:25
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
07:26
<marcellodj>
i think is not wiwi related
07:26
<alkisg>
!learn kiwi-ltsp as for kiwi-ltsp related questions, you can also ask in the #kiwi-ltsp freenode IRC channel, or visit http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
07:26
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
07:27
<marcellodj>
thanks
07:31shawnp0wers1 has joined #ltsp
07:38
<robehend1>
Anyone have hardware sizing recommendations for LTSP Fat Clients?
07:39
<alkisg>
For the server? Or for the fat clients themselves?
07:39
<robehend1>
both, if you have info ;)
07:39
<alkisg>
Well, fat clients == like standalone ubuntu PCs, you can find the requirements there
07:40
Server => need ram, disk and good network speed but you don't need a good cpu
07:40
<robehend1>
ok, thats what i thought for that. luckily 10.04 hasnt boosted those requirements that high
07:43
darn, looks like the clients would need more ram. doubt 512 would cut it from fat clients
07:44
<alkisg>
512 is the minimum for fat clients afaik - some apps like openoffice launch much slower, and some apps like e.g. tuxpaint run better. 1 Gb RAM would be much better.
07:45
(slower or better compared to if they were running as thin clients)
07:45
<robehend1>
agreed. I'll have to look into some other client machines. These ones are on their last legs, as it is
07:45
not much you can do with a 1.8 ghz celeron with 512 mb or ddr ram these days
07:45* chupacabra wonders what a "fat client" is and why?
07:46
<alkisg>
!fatclients
07:46
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "fatclients" :: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
07:46
<robehend1>
chupacabra: It's basically running the whole system on the client hardware, instead of the server. allows you to have the benefits of centralized management from LTSP, while leveraging the power of your hardware for speed and local device support
07:46
<chupacabra>
oh ubuntu... fat everything. that aint LTSP
07:47
<alkisg>
It's a fat client implementation that is based on LTSP and uses it's infrastructure
07:47
<robehend1>
chupacabra: It's partially LTSP. you still boot via pxe, you still pull from the server, it just allows you easier support for local devices, and can help you leverage your hardware at the client end
07:48
chupacabra: Plus, it saves *tons* of time in management, due to maintianing only the chroot, compared to each installation
07:48
<pmatulis>
chupacabra: you think 'fat client' is a ubuntu creation?
07:49
<chupacabra>
I know it aint Jims.
07:49
<robehend1>
different strokes for different folks. fat clients, kiosks, thin clients, zero clients, they all have their place in different networks
07:50
i'm looking at fat clients for better support of Openshot, myself, for one of my classes, as an example
07:50
<chupacabra>
no wonder I never see Jim in here anymore. This is not ltsp any more.
07:50
scotty ever come around?
07:51
<pmatulis>
chupacabra: are you talking to yourself?
07:51shawnp0wers1 has quit IRC
07:51
<chupacabra>
I guess y'all dont know jim and scotty?
07:54* chupacabra goes to ltsp.org to read about the takeover by aliens.
07:55
<chupacabra>
nothing about fat clients on the front page... whew.
07:55
<robehend1>
nope. just another specialized way to deploy ltsp. nothing wrong with some flexibility
07:55
at least until I can get reliable video editing through a standard ltsp setup
07:56
<ogra_ac>
chupacabra, jammcq and sbalneav are around frequently, they just dont do much development anymore
07:57
<chupacabra>
hey ogra. a familiar name. Thanks.
07:59
ogra_ac: What do they think of fat clients? So I got a better feel for whats up.
07:59Gadi has joined #ltsp
08:05
<highvoltage>
good morning
08:05ogra_ac has quit IRC
08:06ogra has quit IRC
08:07ogra_ac has joined #ltsp
08:10
<Gadi>
so, off topic question:
08:11
does anyone know of a GUI for Display settings (aka xrandr) that is as good as gnome's but without all the deps?
08:11
I need something that can at least handle laying out more than one monitor
08:12
grandr seems mostly broken and unmaintained
08:12
<ogra_ac>
i would check xubuntu ... they might have something re-implemented
08:12
<Gadi>
well, if they do, it isn't xfce's display settings gui
08:12
:P
08:12
it has been one of the worst Ive tried
08:12
doesn't even detect what xrandr detects
08:13
<ogra_ac>
well, there is some xubuntu specific sauce
08:13
<Gadi>
I will ask in #xubuntu
08:13
<ogra_ac>
at least for the power manager i know they have something thats not actually upstream xfce
08:14artista_frustrad has quit IRC
08:15
<Gadi>
yeah - I assumed xfce's would be at par with gnome and kde
08:15
I was surprised when it was not
08:15
:(
08:15
<robehend1>
I've never had luck with XFCE, myself. nice system, but I prefer Gnome or LXDE myself
08:16* chupacabra doesn't know. he hacks xorg.conf
08:16
<chupacabra>
xfce has wandered off course.
08:16
<robehend1>
I'm hoping it comes back. And trims down a bit. I dont notice much of a difference between XFCE and Gnome these days, resource wise
08:16
<chupacabra>
exactly.
08:17
<robehend1>
or, if xfce is considered a lost project, maybe more resources get poured into LXDE. i'm amazed at what it can run on, lately.
08:17
<chupacabra>
kinda like here. Olivier is hardly around anymore and the kids have run amuck.
08:17
<Gadi>
yeah, I tried lxrandr
08:17
its gui can change res on multiple monitors
08:17
but does not lay them out
08:18
<chupacabra>
I have been using fluxbox mostly.
08:19
I kinda like lxde but havn't gotten used to it.
08:20
<robehend1>
lxde needs a bit more config options, i think. I can go hack into the configs, but for users, a Gui is nice
08:20
<chupacabra>
yan same as fluxbox and since i know its config i stick with it
08:21[GuS] has joined #ltsp
08:21[GuS] has joined #ltsp
08:24* chupacabra wanders back to #gentoo
08:27artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp
08:51alkisg has quit IRC
08:52arthurl has quit IRC
08:56Trixboxer has quit IRC
09:16mikkel has quit IRC
09:22cliebow_ has quit IRC
09:26Mobe_ has quit IRC
09:26Mobe_ has joined #ltsp
09:30shawnp0wers has joined #ltsp
09:35
<zamba>
sabayon still crap?
09:36cliebow_ has joined #ltsp
09:37
<Gadi>
zamba: taking a survey?
09:37
:)
09:37
<robehend1>
It still crashes, but it does its job
09:37
most of the time
09:38
<zamba>
well.. the only thing i wanted to do with it was set the home page for the browser
09:38
<robehend1>
cant you do that natively through Gconf?
09:38
<zamba>
entering properties caused firefox to crash
09:38
sure, if i only knew how
09:38
that's why i was using sabayon in the first palce :)
09:38
place*
09:39
<robehend1>
I'd recommend investigating gconf-editor. It's really not as bad as it first apperas
09:39no_mind has joined #ltsp
09:39
<zamba>
how can i roll out the changes? i write it to a file?
09:39
<no_mind>
is there a way to figure out the mac address of the client for internet requests ?
09:39
I want to implement a mac address based squid access control for LTSP clients
09:39
<robehend1>
if I'm not mistaken, you can drop it into /etc/skel, but I could be wrong
09:40alkisg has joined #ltsp
09:47robehend1 has left #ltsp
09:55
<mnemoc>
what's the right place for nx/ubuntu connection problems? it authenticates and "su" without problems, but doesn't display anything :< I'm trying to get a session in the LTSP server so I can test ltsp clients in a emulator
10:01
is `nxsetup --install` still needed in ubuntu 10.10?
10:10mardok has joined #ltsp
10:10cliebow_ has quit IRC
10:17
<mnemoc>
weee! :D
10:17shawnp0wers has quit IRC
10:22ogra has joined #ltsp
10:24staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:25cliebow_ has joined #ltsp
10:31shawnp0wers has joined #ltsp
10:32artista_frustrad has quit IRC
10:36
<mardok>
Can /quit
10:36
mt
10:36mardok has quit IRC
10:37shawnp0wers has quit IRC
10:41rickogden has quit IRC
10:42vmlintu has quit IRC
10:44artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp
10:45evil_root has joined #ltsp
10:50evil_root has quit IRC
10:53evil_roo- has joined #ltsp
10:53evil_roo- has left #ltsp
10:53evil_root has joined #ltsp
10:54komunista has joined #ltsp
11:27[GuS] has quit IRC
11:32Faithful has joined #ltsp
11:44komunista has quit IRC
11:57otavio has quit IRC
11:59otavio has joined #ltsp
12:09gorkhaan has quit IRC
12:24
<marcellodj>
hello
12:25
strange things here: if i log with thin1/thin1 screen is blank, all work if i use other login
12:25
what's wrong?
12:26
<alkisg>
It works with one user but not with another?
12:42
<mgariepy>
marcellodj, if you remove the $HOME of the user, can you login correctly ?
12:50robehend1 has joined #ltsp
12:54
<marcellodj>
yes if i switch user
12:54
tried also to delete home
12:54
<alkisg>
And? It's still happening?
12:55
<marcellodj>
yes
12:55
only chance is to use another username/pw
12:55
<alkisg>
Is that Ubuntu?
12:55
<marcellodj>
before this username was binded to macaddr for autolog
12:56
<alkisg>
(or better, is that gnome?)
12:56
<evil_root>
anything in that users .xsession-errors?
12:58
<marcellodj>
yes the gui is gnome
12:59
where i can find x errors i m on opensuse
12:59
<alkisg>
marcellodj: you're probably affected by the compiz problem. What card on the client?
12:59
!localxterm
12:59
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
12:59
<marcellodj>
is a ino
12:59
<alkisg>
...on that, try: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
12:59
<marcellodj>
card ? mean svga?
12:59
<alkisg>
and: xdpyinfo | grep -i Composite
12:59
Yes, which graphics card...
13:00
<marcellodj>
AMD LX800 is the cpu
13:00
<alkisg>
No, not the CPU, the svga
13:01
<marcellodj>
there is no way to know
13:01
i dont have spec of that
13:01
may be i should try VESA?
13:02
<alkisg>
marcellodj: see the commands I pasted above
13:02
ltsp-localapps xterm, lspci and xdpyinfo
13:02
Those will tell you the svga
13:02
<marcellodj>
ok
13:10
no way
13:10
the commands dont work
13:11
i can run only as root
13:11
but it obviously report the specs of the server
13:11
<alkisg>
No localapps in opensuse?
13:12
<marcellodj>
seems to no
13:12
try to force VESA?
13:12
<alkisg>
What do you have in that user's ~/.xsession-errors, like evil_root suggested? Something about compiz there?
13:13
<marcellodj>
compiz disabled
13:13
i had done some searches
13:13
but no chance also disabling
13:13
<alkisg>
Can you put ~/.xsession-errors to pastebin?
13:13
!pastebot
13:13
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "pastebot" :: The LTSP pastebot is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
13:14
<alkisg>
(of the user that fails to login)
13:14
<marcellodj>
ok
13:14
i will report
13:14
tnx
13:15
can t find the xsession dir
13:16
where is?
13:16
<alkisg>
/home/user/.xsession-errors
13:16
You need to be root or that user to access it
13:26
<marcellodj>
yes
13:26
but there is no dir so named
13:27marcellodj has left #ltsp
13:29
<highvoltage>
sbalneav: are you around?
13:35
<cliebow_>
Where's SCOTTIE!??
13:42
<highvoltage>
scottie got beamed up!
13:48
<mgariepy>
someone here is using gnome on debian and have 2 minutes for me ?
13:50
<highvoltage>
mgariepy: /me
13:54
<Gadi>
mgariepy: was it you guys who told me you have seen an issue where gnome-panel won't come up on a first login of a user?
13:54robehend1 has quit IRC
13:55gieltjev has joined #ltsp
13:59
<mgariepy>
Gadi, i saw this a while ago
13:59
but i can't remember what was the issue :/
13:59
<alkisg>
!gnome-panel
13:59
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: Error: "gnome-panel" is not a valid command.
14:00
<alkisg>
learn gnome-panel as to completely reset gnome-panels: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel
14:00
!learn gnome-panel as to completely reset gnome-panels: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel
14:00
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
14:00
<alkisg>
(might workaround the issue)
14:00
<Gadi>
thx
14:00
maybe just needs an update
14:02
<gieltjev>
With LTSP, is there any way the client can use the printer port ?
14:03
<evil_root>
install cups in the chroot ltsp image environment
14:03
<gieltjev>
i want to setup a simple development enviorment, and blinking leds trough the parallel port is one of the Examples
14:03
@evil_root: i don't think cups is gonna work here...
14:03
<evil_root>
oh
14:05
<gieltjev>
is there some kind of remote debugging using gcc? if so i can install gcc and a remotedebugging interface into the chroot
14:07
<alkisg>
Maybe run that example as a localapp?
14:09
<gieltjev>
can you run every program (without modifications) as localapp?
14:09
<alkisg>
If the dependencies are satisfied, I assume so
14:10
<evil_root>
and if its installed in the chrooted environment
14:10
<Gadi>
or if it is a static binary, you can just put it in your home dir
14:11* Gadi pictures a CS class writing a self-contained example program
14:12
<gieltjev>
they code and compile the code itself, so the binary cannot be in the chroot
14:12
<Gadi>
right, but they can put it in the homedir
14:12
<gieltjev>
if you put it in the home directory, the client does not recognise
14:12
<Gadi>
sure it does
14:12
<Kyle__>
Gadi: Even if it's not static you can put it in your home dir. As long as the libraries it needs are on the system it'll be fine :)
14:13
<gieltjev>
and how do you run it as localapp then?
14:13
<Gadi>
ltsp-localapp $HOME/example
14:13
<Kyle__>
gieltjev: It may not be in the users's path. Is that what's happening?
14:13
<Gadi>
er, ltsp-localapps
14:13
hehe
14:14
<alkisg>
!localxterm
14:14
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
14:14
<alkisg>
...or they can run it from a localxterm, so that they also see the output
14:14
<gieltjev>
ok i didn't know that
14:14
<Gadi>
or they can compile it in the local xterm and use the client's OS for the compilation tools
14:16
<gieltjev>
thanks, i imagined all kind of difficult stuff using ssh an copying it to the client and running it :)
14:22
<evil_root>
lol, not with bad ass ltsp 5
14:24
<gieltjev>
if this works all my blaim against LTSP will dissolve
14:24
<Gadi>
evil_root: don't you read the listservs? LTSP's days are numbered.... ;)
14:25
guess we will have to go to Maine *just* to drink beer
14:25
:D
14:25
<evil_root>
listservs?
14:26
<alkisg>
Nah, wayland will also offer ltsp pause/resume sessions ability :D
14:26* Gadi refers to a current thread on the k12ltsp (k12osn?) listserv
14:26
<alkisg>
Ah! Any web links for that?
14:26
<Gadi>
I don't know - the web is just a fad - I don't use it
14:26
:)
14:27
<alkisg>
https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12ltsp-list/ ?
14:27
<evil_root>
lol Gadi
14:27
<alkisg>
Is it this one? "[K12ltsp-list] Your wife photos attached, " ?
14:28
:P
14:28
<Gadi>
alkisg: http://www.listshow.net/201011/k12osn/6968-k12osn-life-after-ltsp.html
14:30
<alkisg>
Ah! Spice! Keeping a separate VM for each of 1000 clients.... :D
14:30
<highvoltage>
http://gigaom.com/2010/11/08/the-economics-of-servers-could-soon-change/
14:30
(ARM based servers)
14:31
<alkisg>
And why is DRBL different than ltsp with fat clients? (except that it can't be removed after installation?)
14:33
<gieltjev>
hi, back again: i just compiled a piece of code, but i need root access on the client to execute this program. what is the easiest way with an local xterm?
14:35
<Gadi>
gieltjev: you would need to modify the chroot's sudoers file and make sure the user is in the appropriate group
14:35
or setuid the program
14:36
but, you cant really do that if you dont have perms
14:36
so, best bet is sudo
14:36
<gieltjev>
but the user isn't listed on the chroot right?
14:37
<Gadi>
with localapps, the user and all of his groups relationships will be pulled down from the server on the fly on login
14:37
so, if the user is in, say, the "chroot-admin" group on the server,
14:38
when he logs in, the chroot-admin group will be created on the client temporarily and he will be in it
14:38
so, if you edit the chroot's sudoers to allow NOPASSWORD access to members of %chroot-admin
14:38
you should be good to go
14:39artista_frustrad has quit IRC
14:39
<gieltjev>
so if the user is in the "lp" group on the server, it will be on the client as well when executing a localxterm?
14:39
<Gadi>
should be
14:39
<gieltjev>
that should solve the problem right?
14:39
<Gadi>
if that is the problem you need to solve
14:39
yes
14:39
if you need to run the program as root for some other reason....
14:39
:)
14:40
<gieltjev>
still a bit confused with the whole LTSP idea
14:41
<Gadi>
we excel at that - we thrive on failed attempts to eschew obfuscation
14:42
<gieltjev>
:)
14:47gorkhaan has joined #ltsp
14:51artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp
14:53
<gieltjev>
in LTSP 4 you could monitor all sessions, is there some way to do this in version 5?
14:54
<highvoltage>
gieltjev: "monitor"? as in iTalc?
14:55
<gieltjev>
yes,
14:57
as far as i know the LTSP server runs multiple X11 sessions and tunnels these trough ssh. is there a way to do this in a more effective way?
15:00
<highvoltage>
that seems like a different question than the monitoring one
15:01
<gieltjev>
no, i meant isn't it possible to tap right into these sessions at the server, instead of running an app on each client to monitor
15:03
<chupacabra>
It is possible and in fact that is the way ltsp started.
15:03
then the server got bogged with all the apps so it was decided to use the cpu on the client to run apps.
15:04
and AFAIK ltsp does not run over ssh
15:04
<highvoltage>
chupacabra: it does ;)
15:04
<chupacabra>
when and why did that start?
15:04
<highvoltage>
gieltjev: in short, you'll basically need an app, like iTalc
15:04* Gadi watches the eschewing
15:04
<chupacabra>
lol
15:05
<highvoltage>
chupacabra: around 5 years ago
15:05
<chupacabra>
and why?
15:05
The client gets it kernel over ssh?
15:05
no way?
15:05
maybe way
15:05cliebow_ has quit IRC
15:05
<highvoltage>
chupacabra: it gets the kernel over tftp
15:05
<chupacabra>
right
15:05* Gadi gets comfy with some popcorn
15:06
<chupacabra>
then starts ssh for the rest?
15:06
<highvoltage>
chupacabra: ltsp uses a bunch of technologies. it uses nbd or nfs to export the root filesystem. it can use ssh or rdesktop to display a remote session
15:07* chupacabra has been doing ltsp since 2001
15:07
<chupacabra>
nfs is what I know.
15:08
well then rdesktop and ssh aren't part of ltsp, just tools to use in ltsp.
15:09
Running the fs over ssh would have to suck more than even nfs
15:09
<highvoltage>
pretty much all of ltsp is made up of other tools. if you cut all the tools it's made out of, you end up with basically LDM and a few relatively simple shell scripts
15:09
<chupacabra>
Which is ltsp. all the other stuff was left to the user.
15:09
<highvoltage>
chupacabra: in Ubuntu we use NBD by default instead of NFS, it has improved performance and thin clients boots faster
15:10
<chupacabra>
that makes sense
15:10
we talked about that before.
15:10
<highvoltage>
Gadi: I hope this is less entertaining that what you hoped for :)
15:11
<chupacabra>
I should probably read and catch back up.
15:11
but essentially it seems my suppositions are right.
15:11wideyes has joined #ltsp
15:12
<wideyes>
anyone in the mood to provide some ltsp help?
15:12
<evil_root>
this is the ltsp channel wideyes...
15:13
<chupacabra>
I got ltsp "Server Proven" on all ibm hardware in 2003
15:13
<wideyes>
good, so I'm in the right place ;)
15:13
seemed quiet
15:14
<chupacabra>
they let me have an instance on mainframes to do it there. They got mad when they noticed i was using irc from their server.
15:15
had to have #ltsp when I got in over my head.
15:15
<wideyes>
I have an ltsp server separate from my DHCP server and I'm having trouble loading images
15:16
<evil_root>
whats your dhcp.conf look like?
15:16
<wideyes>
I have a group created for the ltsp server
15:16Gadi has left #ltsp
15:16
<wideyes>
using the next-server directive
15:17
accessing the tftp server on the ltsp machine doesn't work
15:17
I have copied the pxelinux.0 and all relevant tftp files over to the dhcp server, which serves them up just fine
15:18
my thin clients find the pxelinux.0 file and start loading
15:18
but then they complain they can't find the nbd server, because presumably it's on the ltsp box
15:18
did I describe that clearly?
15:19
<evil_root>
ubuntu?
15:19
ltsp 5?
15:19
<wideyes>
here's the thing
15:19
<gieltjev>
you could edit the pxelinux.cfg/default, i thought you could set an NBDPORT and ip there
15:19
<wideyes>
the ltsp box is ubuntu 10.04
15:19
but the dhcp server is debian sarge 3.1
15:19
I know, I know, old
15:20
<evil_root>
the ltsp server. is it 64 bit or 32 bit?
15:20
<wideyes>
64 bit
15:20
<evil_root>
and the clients?
15:20
<wideyes>
I have constructed the chroot in the i386 environment
15:20
they are all 32 bit
15:20
<evil_root>
humm
15:21
<wideyes>
good call gieltjev, I have tried changing the pxelinux.cfg/default file
15:21
now, will I need to restart my tftp daemon after I do that?
15:22
I have had trouble with this, as the version I'm running appears to be old
15:22
<gieltjev>
no, you don't have to restart the daemon
15:22
<wideyes>
ok, good to know
15:23
the entry I tried was nbdroot=my.ltsp.server.ip, 12345
15:23
<gieltjev>
nbdroot should be right
15:24ogra_ac has quit IRC
15:24
<wideyes>
I've also tried it with the nbdport=2000 option
15:25
the port setting is right as per my nbd-server config
15:25
I've read in some places that I should delete my /etc/nbd-server/default file
15:25
tried that, doesn't change anything
15:27
<gieltjev>
if you remove the quiet in the pxelinux.cfg/default, you should get some more info
15:27
<wideyes>
ah, thanks for that
15:27
will try now
15:28
I'm wondering too: with my option root-path, should I be pointing it to /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img ?
15:29
I've tried that and /opt/ltsp/i386
15:30
I get an error message: switching to colour frame buffer device 80x30
15:30
then "error: failed to connect to nbd server"
15:32
<alkisg>
wideyes: it'd be much easier if you used the ubuntu tftp server, and just pointed your debian dhcp server to it with the next-server directive
15:32
You wouldn't need to transfer any files after each kernel upgrade then
15:33
(and you'd also wouldn't need to modify pxelinux.cfg etc etc)
15:33
<wideyes>
ok, that sounds good. I (thought I had properly) tried that, but I seem to have failed so far. You could probably instruct me how to do it right :)
15:33
<alkisg>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ is a good resource
15:33
...but for that specific case, I think only next-server is needed, nothing more
15:33
<wideyes>
I have looked through there
15:34
yes, I thought next-server would be sufficient
15:34ogra_ac has joined #ltsp
15:34
<wideyes>
so I'm scratching my head as to why it can't seem to find the pxelinux.0 file
15:34
<alkisg>
Did you also set boot filename?
15:34
<wideyes>
it seems the dhcp server wants the tftp server to reside on the same machine
15:34
<alkisg>
No, that's not true
15:35
<wideyes>
yes, to /opt/ltsp/i386
15:35
oh, ok
15:35
<alkisg>
In ubuntu it's not there
15:35
It's in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
15:35
<wideyes>
oh, right you are
15:35
<alkisg>
So you need to specify /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
15:35
(the other part is the "chroot" of the tftp server)
15:35
<wideyes>
option root-path is the one I just wrote
15:35
yes, I had tried that as the filename
15:36
<alkisg>
OK, do all those again and let's start troubleshooting
15:36
<wideyes>
the client responds with a pxe error saying no operating system found
15:36
ok, sounds good!
15:36
and thanks, btw!
15:36
<alkisg>
Restore any other changes you possibly made
15:36
<wideyes>
one minute
15:36
k
15:36
one question right off the bat
15:36
<alkisg>
For reference, this is similar: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP
15:37
<wideyes>
I read on the webs to try and delete the /etc/nbd-server/default file
15:37
<alkisg>
(an external -windows-based- dhcp server)
15:37
<wideyes>
it is currently deleted
15:37
shall I try to restore a default one?
15:37
<alkisg>
Nope
15:37
<wideyes>
ok, groovy
15:37
<alkisg>
If you created one, then it wouldn't run from inetd, and your setup would be confused
15:39
<wideyes>
hm
15:39
I did a dpkg nbd-server reconfigure a little while back
15:39
that may have created it
15:39
<alkisg>
We'll get there don't worry. Let's get the tftp/kernel first.
15:39mgariepy has quit IRC
15:39
<wideyes>
k
15:40
<alkisg>
To test your ubuntu tftp server: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP#Use%20an%20external%20tftp%20client
15:43
<wideyes>
which port should I use for the tftp test?
15:43
<alkisg>
No need to specify a port
15:43
It's the default, 69
15:44
<some other pc/tmp>$ tftp ubuntu-server -v -m binary -c get /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
15:44
<wideyes>
hm. When I use the "tftp myserverip -v -m binary -c get /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0" command it dumps me to a tftp shell
15:44
and instructs me on syntax
15:44
<alkisg>
Maybe an older version
15:44
<wideyes>
lemme try a different system
15:44
<alkisg>
OK, try tftp myserverip get /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
15:44
*-c
15:45
<wideyes>
ah, ok good, says "getting from..."
15:45
like it should
15:46
<alkisg>
And did the file actually arrive?
15:46
<wideyes>
yup
15:46
so that looks ok
15:47
<alkisg>
Nice, so now it's up to your debian dhcp server to make the client boot
15:47
Put next-server, boot filename and root-path there, and restart the dhcp3-server
15:48
(root-path isn't used on ubuntu, but some PXE clients seem to need it even if it's unused)
15:49
<wideyes>
ok, question
15:49
so far I've been making this dhcp entry under a group
15:49
instead of at the 'head' of the config file, as it were
15:49
so this is a subset group
15:49
will that be a problem?
15:50
<alkisg>
Not if your syntax is correct
15:50
<wideyes>
this server is still running the old ltsp server, and I can't have downtime on it while I test the new one
15:51
let's try a boot and see what happens
15:51
<alkisg>
You can tell dhcp3-server to be verbose and check daemon.log, or you can use gpxe on a client (e.g. on a usb stick) to see if it actually receives the appropriate boot settings
15:52
<gieltjev>
if i install freeNX, can i still use the ltsp-localapps ?
15:52
<alkisg>
Sure, as long as you don't use freenx on the client instead of ltsp :D
15:53
<wideyes>
huh
15:53
<gieltjev>
hmm, that will result into a problem
15:53
<wideyes>
just booted!
15:53
:/
15:53
I'm not sure what was different this time
15:53
let's try that again, I'll pay attention to the onscreen messages
15:54
<alkisg>
gieltjev: what exactly are you trying to do with freenx?
15:54
<gieltjev>
archeive a higher refreshrate
15:54
<alkisg>
On a LAN?
15:54
<gieltjev>
yeah
15:54
<alkisg>
LDM_DIRECTX=True gives the best frame rate you can achive
15:55
(at a security cost)
15:55
E.g. full screen videos at 30 fps
15:55
<gieltjev>
i have a 3ghz dual Xeon on my desk with a dual gigabit uplink to a cisco switch serving only one client, and it is terrible slow
15:55
security is no problem :)
15:55
<alkisg>
!directx
15:55
<gieltjev>
it has its own vlan
15:55
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "directx" :: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
15:55
<gieltjev>
!docs
15:55
<ltspbot`>
gieltjev: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
15:55
<alkisg>
Or also
15:55
!lts.conf
15:55
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
15:57
<wideyes>
wow, strange: when I went over to my test client, it had somehow autobooted onto the desktop while I was talking with you. But now that I've rebooted it, same old error message
15:57
<gieltjev>
and how do i only reboot the client in Xubuntu ?
15:57
if i shutdown the client session the server goes down with it
15:57
<alkisg>
Logoff first, then select reboot from ldm?
15:58
wideyes: do you have another dhcp server around?
15:58
Did you uninstall the dhcp server in the ltsp server?
15:58
<wideyes>
no, actually
15:58
I'll try that
15:58
<alkisg>
dpkg -l dhcp3-server
15:59
If it's installed, then run:
15:59
sudo apt-get install ltsp-server
15:59
sudo apt-get install ltsp-server
15:59
sudo apt-get purge --auto-revove ltsp-server standalone
15:59
<gieltjev>
isn't there a simpler way? in this case each kid on the computer is going to shutdown the server :(
15:59
<alkisg>
No idea about xubuntu, we solved it for gnome and lxde
16:01
typo above, *auto-remove
16:01
<wideyes>
just gonna ask that ;)
16:01
hm: "couldn't find package standalone"
16:02
oh wait
16:02
<alkisg>
sorry, another typo: ltsp-server-standalone
16:02
<wideyes>
did you mean
16:02
yes
16:02
<alkisg>
Ouch, I hope you didn't remove ltsp-server :D
16:02
<wideyes>
ok
16:02
we'll see, won't we? :)
16:03
ok, how would I check that?
16:03
<alkisg>
dpkg -l ltsp-server
16:03
<gieltjev>
how did you fix it in gnome and lxde?
16:03
<alkisg>
http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg767036.html
16:04
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/491940
16:04
<wideyes>
I'm assuming the entry ii ltsp-server version name etc. line at the bottom means it's still there and healthy
16:04
<alkisg>
OK
16:04
<wideyes>
try again?
16:04
<alkisg>
Right
16:05
(ah, and check that now dhcp3-server isn't installed on ubuntu: dpkg -l dhcp3-server)
16:05
<wideyes>
yup, no longer present
16:06
but, still can't find the pxe file
16:06
<gieltjev>
my problem is as following, if i install edubuntu 10.10 my clients complain about the wrong kernel, if i install edubuntu 10,04 the client will boot, but when i login it will close the session after the startup sound
16:06vagrantc has joined #ltsp
16:06
<wideyes>
my ltsp server's address is mentioned nowhere in the dhcp ip listing, either
16:06
<gieltjev>
but with xubuntu 10.04 and ltps everything works, except the shutdown
16:06
<alkisg>
gieltjev: the former sounds like an ltsp-update-kernels didn't run, the latter like a compiz problem
16:07
<wideyes>
the next-server directive doesn't seem to be executing properly
16:07
<alkisg>
wideyes: can you paste your dhcp.conf from your debian server? And, did you restart the dhcp-server there?
16:07
<wideyes>
yes, I did restart it
16:07
it's very long. which parts would you like?
16:07
<gieltjev>
the kernels is because the clients don't support some new tecnology
16:07
<alkisg>
gieltjev: ok, then stick to 10.04 if you want
16:08
wideyes: not sure, I'm not using dhcp3-server, I imagine the part where you declare the boot information for those clients?
16:08
<gieltjev>
is compiz removable?
16:08
<alkisg>
!gnome-wm
16:08
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "gnome-wm" :: the default window manager in gnome is gnome-wm, which automatically chooses compiz if it thinks that the card supports it. Compiz is causing login problems to some clients (LP #673072). To disable it, see !disable_compiz. To restore it, see !restore_compiz
16:09
<alkisg>
!disable_compiz
16:09
<gieltjev>
!disable_compiz
16:09
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "disable_compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
16:09
gieltjev: "disable_compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
16:10
<gieltjev>
that is totaly weird, the session closing only happens when the server is virtualized, if i install edubuntu directly onto a server it runs without problems
16:11
<evil_root>
thats weird gieltjev, esxi?
16:11
<alkisg>
Then it shouldn't be a compiz problem, that's a client-side problem. But ~/.xsession-errors should tell you what it is...
16:11
<wideyes>
http://www.heypasteit.com/clip/P60
16:11
sorry, it's a bit messy
16:11
<gieltjev>
yeah, or using vmware workstation
16:12
is there a way i can read all the hints, something like "!all"
16:12
<evil_root>
odd, i got ubuntu 10.04 ltsp 5 running on esxi 4 and it runs just great
16:12
<wideyes>
alkisg, let me know if more information is needed
16:12
<gieltjev>
esxi 3, i'm limited to 32bit hardware
16:13
with a dual xeon 2.8ghz, how many clients can run smoothly
16:13
<alkisg>
wideyes: I'm not very familiar with the dhcpd.conf syntax. Maybe you could try putting filename, next-server and root-path inside the specific host section with the fixed address, and then move that to your global section?
16:14
<wideyes>
ah. good thought. will try
16:14
<evil_root>
@gieltjev that depends if you setup for fat clients or thin clients
16:15
you will probably need to go fat because with 32 bit your not going to be able to have that much ram
16:15
<alkisg>
32bit with pae == 64 mb ram
16:15
<gieltjev>
i have 9gb of ram in the server
16:16
it runs a router (clearOS), a webserver, and the LTSP server
16:16
<alkisg>
What are your client specs? cpu/ram?
16:16
<gieltjev>
the clients are 300mhz, 128mb ram
16:16
<alkisg>
Thin it is then :)
16:16
<gieltjev>
i have 5 of them
16:17
<alkisg>
It's more than enough for 5 clients. LDM_DIRECTX=True will help with their slow CPUs
16:17
If you have vlan on them, I imagine it'll slow them down with the encryption...
16:17
<gieltjev>
the vlan handling is done by the Cisco switch
16:18
<alkisg>
Ah, ok then
16:18
<evil_root>
i also recommend LDM_SSHOPTIONS = "-C"
16:18
for slower cpus
16:18
<alkisg>
With 300mhz/128MB clients i'm able to watch full screen divx videos at 30 fps with no dropped frames
16:19
<gieltjev>
-C is compression right?
16:19
but i don't know if i can get all clients their own port.
16:20
<alkisg>
Their own port where? On the switch?
16:20
<gieltjev>
yeah
16:20
<evil_root>
correct its compression
16:20
<alkisg>
So how are they going to connect?
16:21* evil_root is also confused with the port question
16:21
<gieltjev>
the switch is in the loft, so pulling 5 wires down is going to be hard
16:21
@evil_root: Compression will slow them down right
16:22
<alkisg>
If there's a server <=> gigabit switch <=> gigabit port <=> gigabit switch <=> clients connection, they'll be alright...
16:23
<evil_root>
what alkisg said lol
16:23
<gieltjev>
hmm, i will try to fix a gigabit switch then
16:23
<alkisg>
Do the clients have gigabit cards?
16:23
<gieltjev>
and only nope
16:24
no they don't
16:24
<wideyes>
@alkisg: I'm going to sniff around the dhcp channel, see if I can get some good pointers there. Thank you so much for your help so far, and I may be back to pick your brain again before long
16:24
<alkisg>
gieltjev: Then you'll need to watch out for the flow control problem: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
16:24
wideyes: ok, hope someone here can help you with the dhcpd.conf syntax too
16:25
If you manage to send the clients those 3 options, you should be ok
16:25
<wideyes>
feels on the right track at the moment. Thanks again for the help so far!
16:26
<gieltjev>
wow, sow much info on one night:|
16:28
<alkisg>
(the cisco switch will probably take care of that for you, I think those have flow control disabled by default)
16:29
<evil_root>
i think your right alkisg, none of our cisco switches does it
16:29* alkisg never had a cisco switch, only cheap stuff here :(
16:30
<evil_root>
lol
16:30* evil_root has stacks of servers and switchs and routers laying around doing nothing
16:30
<gieltjev>
so to sum up everything: reinstall edubuntu 10.04 (i like gnome more than xfce, and the ability to shutdown the clients); throw out Compiz; set LDM_DIRECTX=True; set LDM_SSHOPTIONS = "-C" (even thoug i think compression takes more time?)
16:31
<alkisg>
If you set LDM_DIRECTX=true, then ssh options are irrelevant
16:31
<evil_root>
i dont know how to explain the -C gieltjev, i just get better fps on older clients when i use it
16:31
<alkisg>
The X traffic doesn't go through ssh then
16:32
<gieltjev>
too bad i only have one cisco switch to work with :(
16:33
otherwise i created a nice trunk between the two switches :)
16:34
<evil_root>
nice
16:34
<gieltjev>
how do you fetch all tips from the ltspbot ?
16:36
i am going to reinstall the server in the moring (for me about 10 hours away) and i think it is going to be silent on this channel.
16:37ogra_ac has quit IRC
16:37
<alkisg>
There are some european users here too, so I think you'll find someone in the morning if you need help
16:38
<evil_root>
and some americans that never sleep...
16:38
<gieltjev>
thanks for all your help! the parallel experiment worked by the way :)
16:39wideyes has quit IRC
16:39
<gieltjev>
you only need root priviliges, but that is a whole different part of linux ;)
16:40
bye
16:40
<evil_root>
later
16:40gieltjev has quit IRC
16:43alkisg has quit IRC
16:49ogra_ac has joined #ltsp
17:02bobby_C has quit IRC
17:45vagrantc has quit IRC
17:55RiXtEr has quit IRC
17:56RiXtEr has joined #ltsp
18:15evil_root is now known as zz_evil_root
18:39staffencasa has quit IRC
19:30Cobratek has joined #ltsp
19:30vagrantc has joined #ltsp
19:41vagrantc has quit IRC
20:13artista_frustrad has quit IRC
20:25artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp
20:44M4gic5t0rM has joined #ltsp
21:42daya has joined #ltsp
21:45Faithful has quit IRC
22:11alexqwesa has quit IRC
22:12alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
22:41MorningSon has quit IRC
23:15M4gic5t0rM has quit IRC
23:56sweetpi has joined #ltsp
23:59alkisg has joined #ltsp