IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 4 September 2009   (all times are UTC)

00:40alkisg has joined #ltsp
08:48ltspbot has joined #ltsp
08:49
<zamba>
yeah, now it works
08:49
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:49
<zamba>
let's see for how long
08:49
<alkisg>
Hey sbalneav
08:49
<zamba>
but it's incredibly choppy
08:49limon has quit IRC
08:49Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
08:49
<alkisg>
zamba: that's with LDM_DIRECTX=true?
08:50
<zamba>
alkisg: yup
08:50
<ogra>
!s
08:50
<ltspbot>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:50
<alkisg>
Urm... are you sure the settings actually reach the client? Can you do a "getltscfg -a" from a local client terminal?
08:51
<sbalneav>
Morning ogra!
08:51
<alkisg>
(or just watch a youtube video and see the ssh usage; it should be zero)
08:52
<zamba>
alkisg: those three are there, yeah
08:52
<alkisg>
Ok.
08:52
<zamba>
just tested the bandwidth between my client and the server to 94 Mbit/s
08:52
with iperf
08:52
<alkisg>
What are you watching?
08:53
<zamba>
Starting playback...
08:53
AO: [pulse] Connection died: Connection terminated
08:53
i'm playing music
08:53
and then suddenly that in mplayer
08:53
which means that something crashed
08:53
128 kbit/s mp3 stream
08:53
<alkisg>
Ah, the player also shows video while playing , right? (that screen-saver-like thing)
08:53
<zamba>
nope.. this is mplayer
08:54
the -potential- bandwidth
08:54
i didn't mean that i pulled 94 Mbit/s
08:54
i just checked to see if the connection was good
08:54
<alkisg>
Ah, ok
08:54
<zamba>
but i looks like the local server just dies
08:54
the local pulseaudio server or whatever
08:55
it plays for a few seconds (very choppy) and then just terminates
08:56
<alkisg>
CPU usage on the client, while playing?
08:56
<zamba>
can i add an applet for that?
08:57
will that give me the local cpu utilization?
08:57
<alkisg>
I don't think so. Better do: ltsp-localapps xterm
08:57
and run top or htop inside that
08:57
<zamba>
ah!
08:57
cool
08:57
nice command
08:57
<alkisg>
Yup
08:58
<zamba>
but it's very hard to measure that now, since i'm not able to play back any sound no more :p
08:58
have to do another reboot for that
08:58* alkisg thinks another client reboot is required... :)
08:58
<zamba>
god damn :)
09:00
back up
09:00
anything else you want me to check before i start the playback?
09:01
choppy
09:01
3 % cpu
09:01
0.13 in load
09:01
<alkisg>
Nah, cpu isn't the problem
09:02
<zamba>
it's still playing, but it's incredibly choppy
09:02
impossible to listen to
09:03
the server yawns at it, so it's no cpu issues there either
09:04* ogra dances
09:04
<zamba>
hm.. looks like there could be something with the network..?
09:05
<alkisg>
Or soundcard drivers?
09:05
Or pulse? :D
09:05
<zamba>
i restarted the playback, and now it's fine
09:05
<ogra>
are your NICs running in full duplex ?
09:05
<zamba>
no choppiness
09:05
and there
09:05
it crashed
09:05
pulseaudio went down
09:06
but the interesting thing is that the traffic on the server was around 200 kbit/s when not playing, but the second i started playback of audio, it sky-rocketed to around 2000 kbit/s
09:06
<alkisg>
Why is that interesting?
09:07
<zamba>
1800 kbit/s for just audio?
09:07
for an 128 kbit/s mp3 stream?
09:07
<alkisg>
Uncompressed? why not?
09:07
<ogra>
its uncompressed
09:07
<zamba>
or is it decoded on the server?
09:07
ah, ok
09:07
again, that stupid distinction :p
09:07
<ogra>
thats why flash is so bad on clients ...
09:07
<zamba>
which i'm learning to love :)
09:07
<ogra>
imagine you add uncompressed video to that with 30fps
09:08
<alkisg>
ogra: not really, flash is bad even without network involved :)
09:08
<zamba>
but what is causing the local server to crash?
09:08
<alkisg>
Totem with no xv is much, much better than flash
09:08
<zamba>
it's a local pulseaudio server, right?
09:08
<ogra>
*and* the server tries to keep video and audio in sync :)
09:08
<alkisg>
...and totem with xv is perfect :)
09:09* ogra goes back to watch his OO.o build on armel ...
09:09
<alkisg>
I don't know what flash does... calls putpixel instead of putimage? :-O
09:09
<ogra>
probably putbit for every of the 16 bpp
09:09
:)
09:10
<zamba>
any ideas, wise people? :)
09:10
<sbalneav>
!flash
09:10
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "flash" is Yes, flash sucks. Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try the HQtube plugin. Install greasemonkey for firefox, and see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/24999
09:11
<sbalneav>
I use HQtube now
09:11
much better
09:11
<alkisg>
sbalneav: if it could be easily installed for all users, it would be nice... but... :(
09:11
<sbalneav>
I think you can have global GM scripts, can't you?
09:12
<alkisg>
I don't think even greasemonkey can be globally installed :)
09:12
<sbalneav>
You apt-get install it :)
09:12
<alkisg>
Ah yes, it was the script that was the problem
09:16
<zamba>
alkisg: could look like driver issues
09:16
<alkisg>
Try another client, if you have handy...
09:16
<zamba>
alkisg: tried on another machine now.. it had the same choppiness symptom for the first playbacks.. but then it settled with nice sound..
09:16
and it has been playing for 80 seconds now
09:17planxa has joined #ltsp
09:17
<planxa>
hola
09:19
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Well, if GM doesn't support a global scripts option, then that's something we should file a bug on. I've googled around a bit, and you're right, I'm not coming up with any OBVIOUS hits.
09:19
planxa: hello
09:19
<zamba>
270 seconds and still playing :)
09:20
<alkisg>
sbalneav: right, a feature request for that would be nice ;)
09:20
<sbalneav>
Makes sense, if for nothing else other than HQtube.
09:21
I wonder what would happen if you just dumped a script into /usr/lib/firefox<mumble>/gm_scripts
09:24matttttt has quit IRC
09:24
<Blinny>
zamba: Are you sure the choppiness isn't just low bandwidth to the world? Where the burst buffering isn't sufficient to cover the first few seconds? Maybe an underrun causes the crash.
09:31bieb has joined #ltsp
09:34
<planxa>
09:38
<alkisg>
Μμμμμ αν θες στα ελληνικά, κάτι γίνεται... :)
09:41
<elias_a>
En minä tuosta ymmärtänyt hölkäsen pöläystä, mutta LTSP on hieno juttu!
09:41
;-)
09:42
Prego!
09:43
<ogra>
alkisg, which is what ?
09:44
<alkisg>
Nah, google translate didn't work :) I said that I could help him if he spoke greek :)
09:44
<ogra>
ah
09:44
not even the german translation was close to that
09:45
<sbalneav>
ᛊᚲᛟᛏᛏ
09:45
There's my first name in Futhork
09:51
<Blinny>
heh
09:56wima has joined #ltsp
10:07Gadi has joined #ltsp
10:10Selveste1_ has quit IRC
10:13Topslakr has quit IRC
10:13korcan has quit IRC
10:13monteslu_ has quit IRC
10:13loather-work has quit IRC
10:15monteslu_ has joined #ltsp
10:15korcan has joined #ltsp
10:15Topslakr has joined #ltsp
10:15loather-work has joined #ltsp
10:31
<alkisg>
If I'm going to do user management in python, is this a good way to go? http://docs.python.org/library/pwd.html
10:32
<garymc>
Had this problem a couple of weeks back managed to rectify but lost my paper telling me how. My problem, with one account only. When i load http://localhost/insert_record.php it asks to save it etc and doesnt load it in the browser. Now any other account loads it in the browser just not the one i use "Gary" This is in an LTSP server using Ubuntu server 9.04
10:36
<sbalneav>
alkisg: The problem with user management THAT way is it only supports pwd *files*, which is exactly the problem we're in now.
10:36
alkisg: Here's my thoughts on the subject (FWIW)
10:36
<alkisg>
sbalneav: the equivelant c function says it also supports nis and ldap
10:37
<sbalneav>
For lookup, if nss is working
10:37
NOT for creating.
10:37
<alkisg>
Ah :(
10:37
I'm all ears :)
10:37
<sbalneav>
The add* tools are written in perl, and fairly standard across all distros.
10:37
i.e. adduser, addgroup, usermod, etc.
10:38
Lots of *other* graphical user managers/stuff has been built on top of those over the years.
10:38
<alkisg>
And for reading? getent?
10:39
<sbalneav>
Right. Lookup's not the problem. The libnss-* family provides a good solution for READING the info
10:40
NONE of the interfaces, however, handle the PUT side of things.
10:40
<alkisg>
Sooo.... http://docs.python.org/library/pwd.html for reading, and adduser/group etc for writing, right?
10:40
<garymc>
anyone?
10:41
<sbalneav>
alkisg: right
10:41
<alkisg>
sbalneav: what about useradd? E.g. how would I restore a shadow file entry?
10:41
(I mean the encrypted password)
10:41
<sbalneav>
Well, those would need to be modified too,
10:42
*IDEALLY*, what we *really* need to do is get putpwent() and putgrent() calls to NOT write directly to /etc/passwd and /etc/group, but go through whatever mechanism's defined in libnss
10:43
the get(pw|gr)ent calls do that, but not the put.
10:43
In other words, libnss-* interfaces only handle READING, and not WRITING.
10:43
<alkisg>
Hmmm ok but can we really do something about this? Isn't all this low level stuff handled by, I don't know, more professional coders?
10:44
<sbalneav>
No more professional than we are :)
10:44
<alkisg>
Yey :)
10:44
<sbalneav>
I added the original shadow password support to libpam-ldap.
10:45
sbalneav@feniks:~$ cat /usr/share/doc/libpam-ldap/AUTHORS | grep Scott Scott Balneaves <sbalneav@legalaid.mb.ca>
10:46
<alkisg>
Got it. So (as a newbie in the python & nss & linux world) I could start by using putpwent(), and when I'm finished (and more experienced :)) I could try sending patches so that it works for ldap, nis etc...
10:46
<sbalneav>
I've just never found the time to sit down and dig into libnss-ldap and hack together the putpwent and putgrent support.
10:47
If I got off my *ss and did that... :)
10:47
<alkisg>
Hmmm now to find something to get sbalneav off his *ss.... :D
10:47garymc has quit IRC
10:47
<sbalneav>
Yeah, I sit around all day doing nothing :)
10:47
<wima>
sbalneav: a lot of people with ldap setups also have their samba stuff in there. the smbldap* tools make sure that unix and windows stay in sync. Would such a thing be possible?
10:48
<sbalneav>
Well, with a proper putpwent and putgrent support, it would be easier, sure.
10:48
<zamba>
Blinny: should be more than enough bandwidth to be able to provide a 128 kbit/s stream
10:48
Blinny: i've never experienced that with any other machine in the network
10:49
Blinny: and i had to restart mplayer/audacious a couple of times to make the choppiness to away
10:49
meaning.. the buffers got emptied every time
10:49
<sbalneav>
Sigh. Well, when I get done with major sabayon hacking/cleanup, maybe that'll be my next project.
10:51
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-shadow-devel/2008-June/006649.html
10:51
<wima>
i'm doing a little web front-end that goes straight for the ldap db for user management
10:51
<sbalneav>
See, the shadow supports still doing things like opening the /etc/password file directly :(
10:53
<alkisg>
Hmmm but he also says that some support is there for going through libnss...
10:54
<sbalneav>
The problem would be, at least for a put(pw|gr)ent, is libnss-ldap would need a "template" file somewhere, that the site could modify to indicate things like which ou groups and users get pushed to, etc.
10:54
arrgh
10:54* sbalneav goes off to apt-get source libnss-ldap
10:54planxa has left #ltsp
10:56planxa has joined #ltsp
10:57wima has left #ltsp
10:57Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
10:57
<sbalneav>
egrep "^_nss_ldap_" ldap-pwd.c | grep put
10:58
nada.
10:58
And that's the problem.
10:59
If we had that, then if you had ldap set up correctly in your /etc/nsswitch.conf file, and just did a regular "adduser" that made a call to "putpwent" eventually...
10:59
things would "Just Work" (c)(r)
11:00
and none of this hokey baloney would be needed.
11:00
The Ubuntu user manager would allow you to add users to your ldap server.
11:00
useradd, usermod, etc, all happy.
11:01
World peace. Christians, Muslims and Jews living in harmony. A brotherhood of man.
11:01* sbalneav starts to hum "Age of Aquarius"
11:01
<alkisg>
Heh :)
11:02
Sounds like a good project... O:-)
11:03
<sbalneav>
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains. The stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
11:03
A free beer for the first person who identifies the quote.
11:04* sbalneav peers around the channel
11:04
<rjune_>
sbalneav: sappho has good juice
11:04
<ogra>
dune
11:04
<sbalneav>
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?
11:04
Ding Din Ding
11:04
We have a winner
11:05
<ogra>
:)
11:05
<rjune_>
Dune has some good quotes
11:05
<ogra>
and that while i'm in a meeting and on a conf call at the same time ;)
11:05
<sbalneav>
One of my favorite series of books
11:06
Not the new crappy ones like "The Butlerian Jihad" that these other Frank Herbert wannabees are writing.
11:06
<ogra>
(so much about exciting ubuntu meetings :P )
11:07sbalneav is now known as RocketMan
11:07
<RocketMan>
I heard that
11:07RocketMan is now known as sbalneav
11:07
<ogra>
haha
11:14Lns has joined #ltsp
11:15BugsBunnyBR has quit IRC
11:19BugsBunnyBR has joined #ltsp
11:26fotanus has joined #ltsp
11:39BugsBunnyBR has quit IRC
12:10avena has joined #ltsp
12:14vagrantc has joined #ltsp
12:30spectra has joined #ltsp
12:35planxa has left #ltsp
12:54cnc has joined #ltsp
12:54
<cnc>
morning guys
12:54
for the last month or so, all my pxe machines are doing something weird with sound and video. the sound clips and video clips play so fast it's like they're on fast forward
12:54
any ideas?
12:55
<Blinny>
cnc: You need a slower server.
12:55
<cnc>
Blinny: lol
12:55
<alkisg>
Put more machines :)
12:55
<Blinny>
I'll be happy to trade you a slow one for your unwanted newish fast one.
12:56
<Lns>
hahaha...cnc actually i remember having that issue a while back
12:56
<cnc>
Lns: lol
12:56
any ideas?
12:56
i told the users, learn to listen and watch faster
12:56
<Lns>
jeez its been so long..i think it had something to do w/alsa+pa
12:56
=p
12:56
cnc, dist?
12:56
<cnc>
so switch to oss?
12:56
ubuntu 9.04
12:57
Lns: what does your lts.conf default look like
12:58
<Lns>
cnc, it's got nothing fancy in there that would mess w/sound
12:58* Lns is trying to remember what he did to fix it
12:58
<cnc>
* Massages Lns's brain..... *
12:59spectra has quit IRC
13:00
<Lns>
cnc, have you tweaked the sound settings at all since install?
13:00
I remember i had this issue back in the gutsy days
13:01
<cnc>
Lns: no haven't changed a thing
13:01
Lns: it worked during the summer, I left it alone and then started getting reports
13:01
<Lns>
have you updated server+chroot?
13:01
<cnc>
i've updated the server
13:01
but not hte chroot
13:03
<Lns>
i'd do that for good measure
13:03
<cnc>
k let me find that command
13:04
<Lns>
cnc, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot - should work mostly for jaunty too
13:04
just read it and s/hardy/jaunty/
13:05* Lns should update that page to just copy the sources.list from server to chroot instead of manually adding lines
13:05
<cnc>
Lns: ty sir I will try that now, should I have all the clients logout?
13:06
<Lns>
cnc, you dn't have to until you rebuild the nbd image
13:06
that's what the clients are pulling from
13:06
and have them reboot after you rebuild the image
13:07
<cnc>
so don't have to until i do sudo ltsp-update-image ?
13:07
<Lns>
right
13:07
<cnc>
Lns: thank you I will try that and let you know how it turns out
13:07
<Lns>
cool
13:09
<alkisg>
Lns, isn't that "sudo cp -a /opt/ltsp /opt/ltsp-orig sudo rm -Rf /opt/ltsp/*" the same as "sudo mv /opt/ltsp/ /opt/ltsp-orig sudo mkdir /opt/ltsp" but a lot faster because it doesn't copy the contents?
13:09ftherese has joined #ltsp
13:10
<ftherese>
I have a problem with mounting smb in ltsp
13:11
I have followed all the instructions online for mounting, but nothing I have done has enabled the user to access in rw mode
13:11
If I connect by browsing the network in ubuntu
13:12
I can mount it, but I have not found a way to write the fstab file that actually works
13:12
I am wondering if the authentication issue has anything to do with ltsp
13:13
<Gadi>
ftherese: are you trying to automount an smb share on login?
13:13
<ftherese>
yes
13:13
<Lns>
alkisg, heh! yes. updating..geez
13:13
alkisg, well, if there are ppl logged in, that might not be a good idea
13:13
(mv)
13:13
<alkisg>
I think mv is better than cp / rm in this case
13:13
<Gadi>
ftherese: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ActiveDirectoryIntegration
13:14
follow the bottom part
13:14
<Lns>
alkisg, agreed
13:14
<alkisg>
Lns, because the files that are in use will still be accessible
13:14
<ftherese>
Gadi: thanks, I'll try that
13:15
Gadi: do you think I'll need to install the libpam-mount package?
13:15
<Gadi>
yes
13:15
<Lns>
alkisg, the nbd image will still sit around you mean?
13:15
<Gadi>
if you intend to follow that wiki
13:15
<ftherese>
yup
13:16
now i see that I've got to
13:16
<alkisg>
Lns: that's a little deeper than my current linux knowledge, but I imagine that if nbd-server has the nbd file open, and you move it, then yes, it should still be accessible
13:16
But others here would know better
13:19
<Lns>
i can at least put a disclaimer to have ppl logged out for now
13:19
should probably be a good thing when you're doing a major update anyway :)
13:19
<alkisg>
Heh true :)
13:24loather-work has quit IRC
13:26johnny has left #ltsp
13:26
<Lns>
done and done
13:28loather-work has joined #ltsp
13:31alexqwesa has quit IRC
13:34alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
13:41
<ftherese>
Gadi: I am loging out, going to test it
13:41ftherese has quit IRC
13:42Wa11yBa11s has quit IRC
13:44ftherese has joined #ltsp
13:48
<ftherese>
Gadi: I followed those instructions
13:48
Gadi: to no avail
13:50
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Meh, even worse than I thought
13:50
<alkisg>
Ouch. Why?
13:50* alkisg already started with python and the pwd module
13:50
<sbalneav>
the nss functionality in libc6 *itself* only supports gets.
13:51
<alkisg>
Aaaah.... :( :( :(
13:51
<sbalneav>
That is *completely* broken, IMHO
13:51
So.
13:51
Now I need to find out: is NSS a "standard" somewhere that *exclusively forbids* put operations?
13:52
This could turn into a massive project :)
13:52
<alkisg>
I'd love to help, but about 1m over my head here...
13:53
*I'm
13:54vmlintu has quit IRC
13:57* alkisg loves the python pwd module... all_users = pwd.getpwall() :)
14:05ftherese has quit IRC
14:11avena has quit IRC
14:12ftherese has joined #ltsp
14:13
<ftherese>
Ok, so I've followed the Active Directory instructions on the community pages, and I still can't get write access to the share, anyone have any ideas?
14:14johnny has joined #ltsp
14:15
<Appiah>
Anyway to make the terminals turn off if they are just on the login for lets say... 10min?
14:17
<johnny>
no way that exists now
14:18
<Appiah>
=/
14:18
<johnny>
i know there is a timer in there for the timed autologin function, perhaps a hook could be placed for that
14:19
i don't know if anybody will want to spend the time to implement it tho
14:19ftherese has quit IRC
14:22Blinny has quit IRC
14:29
<sbalneav>
Appiah: You could just hack the LDM program with an alarm() call.
14:29
OK, Heading off for the long weekend
14:30
Cheers, all
14:30
<alkisg>
Ciao sbalneav
14:30
<Appiah>
_just_ hack
14:30
I suck at c
14:31
well if it's just something like that
14:31
I could put it on the LTSP wishlist ?
14:32
<alkisg>
I think there's a timer somewhere else that puts the monitor in sleep mode, maybe you could hook on that instead of ldm
14:33
<Appiah>
I still have NO idea on how to do that
14:34
I'll reques the feature..
14:37
<johnny>
alkisg, i think that's just setting dpms..
14:37
Appiah, i really doubt you'll get a result in any decent time frame
14:38
i don't think there is a way to find out from ldm where it is at
14:38
<Appiah>
I dont need it _now_
14:38
<johnny>
i can't recall if it stays active (i've never looked) after login
14:38
<Appiah>
It would be nice thou
14:38
<johnny>
if it doesn't stay active after login you can just write a cron
14:38vagrantc has quit IRC
14:39
<johnny>
but it sounds like it must
14:44primeministerp has quit IRC
14:45
<Appiah>
I was thinking of places where the TC maybe is only used 2or3 hours of the day
14:46
and it just stands there on until someone logs on
14:46
or cut the power before weekends
14:48vmlintu has joined #ltsp
14:51
<Lns>
Appiah, there are ways to do it on a scheduled basis via cron if that works, though i see a great use case for what you're suggesting
14:54
<Appiah>
I dont see how I can do that with cron
14:54
how can the script see if anyone has been logged on ?
14:54
time based
14:56
<Lns>
Appiah, i meant cron at certain times of the day, not after a certain amount of time with nobody logging in
14:57tylerfixer has joined #ltsp
14:57
<johnny>
you an cut the power before weekends fine
14:57
via cron
14:57
just not the logged in part
14:58
since ldm is always running, there is no way to ask ldm whether somebody is logged in
14:58
oh.. there is one idea..
14:58
write a script that greps /var/log/ldm.log
14:58
hacky.. but it might work
14:58
and then cron the script to run every 5 minutes or whatever
14:59
<tylerfixer>
Howdy all! I have a quick question regarding high Xorg cpu usage on my HP t5520 thin clients.It seems that Xorg is always using 99.9% cpu, even just displaying the desktop. I do have the correct Xorg drivers for my hardware (Via UniChrome), and they are working, but for some reason the clients are still using 99%cpu
14:59
<johnny>
Appiah, look in /var/log/ldm.log to see what you need to grep for
15:00
tylerfixer, perhaps try the vesa drivers..
15:00
see if it is better.. not that i'm suggesting that is the proper thing you should be doing :..
15:00
but at least you might know where the problem lies
15:00
<tylerfixer>
here's what's interesting.. at the LDM desktop login screen, Xorg is using the correct amount of CPU usage (around 1-2%)
15:01
but as soon as I connect using LDM or even XDMCP the cpu usage shoots through the roof
15:01nubae has joined #ltsp
15:03
<nubae>
Ubuntu One is weird enough... wanted to figure out what it was, so clicked on it... tries t take me to my launchpad page over and over... ie never changing from the "sign in as Nubae" page
15:03
<Appiah>
Lns: ye that I can make
15:03
shutdown everyday after school/office hours
15:03
but I dont see how to make an inactivity based shutdown
15:04
<nubae>
oh... guadalinex has something like that in its app, Gesuser... u might want to take a look, its supposed to be open source
15:05
<johnny>
Appiah, i just told you
15:05
of course it only works in the case that you suggested
15:05
which is not logging into ldm at all
15:06
<Appiah>
sorry thought you were taking about shutting down on weekends / end of the days
15:06
<johnny>
both
15:06
<Appiah>
that's no problem for me
15:06
it's the timebased inactivity I dont get :D
15:06
<johnny>
i just told you how to check for inactivity
15:06
for lack of ldm login
15:06
<Appiah>
I'll readu p
15:06
read up*
15:07
<tylerfixer>
Okay, so I just tried the VESA driver, and it's the same, if not worse
15:07
<johnny>
grep "whateverldmloginstring" /var/log/ldm.log
15:07
you might need to save the results of the check on a temporary file
15:07
by time
15:09
<tylerfixer>
Anyone got any ideas as to why Xorg would use so much cpu on the thin clients when connected through "X -query" or LDM ?
15:09
<Appiah>
what desktop is it loading?
15:09
<tylerfixer>
Gnome
15:09
<Appiah>
any localapps running?
15:10
<tylerfixer>
no local apps on the thin clients
15:14
are there any logfiles you'd recommend me to check on the thin clients?
15:14
I'm pretty sure that it's not the server, too, since it's waaay overspec'd for a thin client server (16gb ram, 2x dual core opterons@ 2.4ghz)
15:15
<johnny>
tylerfixer, the standard stuff in /var/log
15:16moquist has joined #ltsp
15:16
<tylerfixer>
i've checked the xorg.6.log file, and I haven't found anything too interesting, just a bunch of debug information from the Via unichrome driver
15:16vvinet has quit IRC
15:18
<tylerfixer>
oh, and it would probably help to state that I have enabled LDM_DIRECTX=True, and I have verified that it is working with getltscfg
15:19pmatulis has quit IRC
15:21
<nubae>
tylerfixer: what is so much cpu and with what apps running?
15:21
oops
15:21
scratch last part... not reading properly
15:21
<tylerfixer>
well, on the client, the Xorg process is using 99.4% cpu just sitting here
15:21
no worries :)
15:21
<nubae>
wow ok
15:22
<tylerfixer>
i have pidgin open, and that's it
15:22
if i CTRL+ALT+F1 and run top, Xorg is bringing this system to a crawl
15:22
<nubae>
can u do a ps aux and pastebin it
15:22
<tylerfixer>
sure can do
15:23
will the clipboard transfer from a VT on the thin client to the x session?
15:23
<nubae>
think at least we can do process of elimination by killing deamons
15:23
<tylerfixer>
okay
15:23
<nubae>
hehe... that sounded funny
15:23
<tylerfixer>
demon slaying... sounds fun!
15:24
<nubae>
yeah killing the 'nice' deamons
15:24
(grin)
15:24
we'll have to make them angry.... then kill
15:25
<alkisg>
tylerfixer: do you have both italc installed and vino enabled?
15:25
<tylerfixer>
I'm not sure what you mean, I've never heard of italc or vino
15:25
<alkisg>
OK, then you don't :)
15:25
<nubae>
well we'll get to see which deamons aren't playing nice from the ps cat
15:26
<alkisg>
I had such high cpu usage in xorg when italc and vino (both are vnc servers) were at the same, 5900, port
15:26
...and I couldn't understand why, because *they* didn't cause any cpu usage; only xorg did
15:27
<tylerfixer>
hmm... the cpu usage is on the client, not the server...
15:27
<alkisg>
Yes, on the client
15:27
<tylerfixer>
hmm, how would I check?
15:27
<nubae>
login the to the client via ssh (enabling root pass first)
15:27
<alkisg>
No, if you don't have those programs installed it's something else for you. I'm just saying that it was difficult for me to pinpoint the problem...
15:27
<nubae>
well, enable root pass, rebuild image
15:28
<cnc>
exsudo umount /opt/ltsp/i386/proc
15:28
<nubae>
alkisg is right though, its probably some app on the sever
15:28
<cnc>
lol wrong windows sorry
15:29
<nubae>
u running anything SDL based on the thin clients?
15:29cnc has quit IRC
15:29
<nubae>
maybe using alsa?
15:29
<tylerfixer>
I have root password enabled, and I can switch to the local console
15:29
I DO have sound enabled
15:29
but it's through pulseaudio
15:30
<nubae>
ah, well then it shold be ok... there used to be a serious CPU hogging issue with SDL apps when not running through pulse
15:30
<tylerfixer>
here's my ps aux -- http://pastebin.ca/1554239
15:31
<alkisg>
tylerfixer: also do a netstat -tulpn, maybe it'll show something...
15:31
<tylerfixer>
okay
15:32
just X, pulseaudio, and ltspfsd
15:32
<nubae>
btw... htop is a nice app to use for checking these values too
15:33
<tylerfixer>
htop? never heard of it either, but i can apt-get it for you if it makes diagnosing this easier
15:33
<nubae>
yeah will give u some good info
15:33
its top, but a little nicer
15:35
mine, for example, tells me flash is taking most of the cpu, as is expected
15:35
<johnny>
uggh flash
15:35
how i hate you
15:35
<nubae>
:-(
15:37
wow, firefox, just gave me the coolest failure notice... it stats with "well, this is embarrasing"
15:37tylerfixer has quit IRC
15:38tylerfixer1 has joined #ltsp
15:38
<nubae>
gon upload it to flicker... never seen anything like that...
15:38
<tylerfixer1>
sorry about that, my thin client crashed
15:38
did I miss anything?
15:39
<nubae>
no.... but the thin client crashing sounds related to the high cpu usage
15:39
<tylerfixer1>
yep
15:39
it overheated
15:40
<alkisg>
tylerfixer1: there was a how-to-x-troubleshooting in the ubuntu wiki somewhere, that suggested closing all the apps one-by-one to isolate the problem of high X usage. Maybe you should try that; I.e. run gnome-system-monitor and start killing all *user* processes...
15:40
<tylerfixer1>
kids had just finished a session of youtube (much to their dismay, it was more like a slideshow) so the CPU was primed for failure
15:40
aliksg: interesting idea
15:41
i suppose i could just start randomly killing things
15:41
processes related to Gnome, right?
15:41
<alkisg>
Well, all the processes that get started by the user that is logged on that terminal
15:41
Not specifically gnome-related...
15:41
<tylerfixer1>
okay
15:41moldy has joined #ltsp
15:41
<tylerfixer1>
let me try that
15:41
<moldy>
hey
15:41bieb has left #ltsp
15:42
<nubae>
well, I would kill them based on niceness
15:42
<alkisg>
tylerfixer1: and of course after each kill, see if that fixes the cpu problem
15:42
<tylerfixer1>
yeah, let me try to bring up a local xterm on the other thin client and start killing things
15:42
to see when the usage goes down
15:45
hmm i killed pulseaudio on the server, and the cpu usage on the client went up-- now pulseaudio on the client is using 2% cpu
15:47
this is very strange.. xorg just sitting there on one of the clients is now using 99.2% cpu
15:48
just on the gnome desktop. I have killed the panels and most other processes
15:48
and xorg is just chewing up that cpu
15:51
hey.. interesting log line from Xorg -- "(WW) CHROME(0): [drm] for optimal performance, please increase the frame buffer"
15:54
does it help at all to know that my ltsp chroot is of Ubuntu 8.04 ?
15:55
well, i've got to go for the moment, but I will be back later tomorrow
15:56
thanks for all your ideas
15:56tylerfixer1 has left #ltsp
16:04vagrantc has joined #ltsp
16:09Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
16:09
<Q-FUNK>
re
16:12
<nubae>
gosh... open source really is just a one way battle...
16:12
the more one gives, the more people bite your arm off
16:22
<alkisg>
relax... it's just words :) I'm sure the feelings say differently
16:23
<vagrantc>
that's why i study aikido. so i can defend myself and my users from themselves
16:24
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the new beta rom-o-matic allows for embedding scripts when you press [configure]!! http://etherboot.org/share/mdc/gpxe.git/contrib/rom-o-matic/build.php
16:24
<vagrantc>
ooooh.
16:24
<alkisg>
That *is* *cool* :)
16:25* vagrantc bites someone's arm off
16:28
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's stuff like that that makes a network-bootable gPXE very attractive.
16:28
if pxeclient != gGPXE, load gPXE over the net
16:28
<alkisg>
Yeah... if only we could replace the boot roms with this easily, we wouldn't even need tftp :)
16:29pmatulis has joined #ltsp
16:29* vagrantc used to use custom etherboot images that downloaded the kernel/initrd over NFS
16:29
<alkisg>
Yeah, one of the devs even made me a patch for reading scripts directly from gpxe.txt files
16:30
(passed as initrds)
16:32
<vagrantc>
does gPXE support https for network boot?
16:32
<alkisg>
Yes, but I don't know how mature that is
16:32
<vagrantc>
you'd have to configure each terminal with the right certificates, but it'd actually be a way to get secure network booting if you really needed it.
16:33Gadi has left #ltsp
16:34fotanus has left #ltsp
16:37
<alkisg>
Um my script didn't work... :(
16:38
Ooops I forgot to put #!gpxe on top.... retrying...
16:38
<zamba>
alkisg: what are you trying to do?
16:38
<Q-FUNK>
I'm wondering if they ever got gPXE to properly build over Coreboot?
16:38
<nubae>
alkisg: thing is.... on irc... words is all we got... so we need to be careful how we use them... I've had my fair share of misunderstandings... but soemtimes its difficult to interpret something in any way than negative
16:38
<alkisg>
zamba: to create a customized gpxe disk by just using the beta version of rom-o-matic
16:39
nubae: see the logs, he didn't mean to offend you
16:39
He says so after you left
16:40
<zamba>
i've barely scratched the surface of gpxe.. but what can it bring to the table when it comes to ltsp?
16:40
<alkisg>
*Yup it works fine! Way to go, gpxe!*
16:40Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
16:41
<alkisg>
zamba: It can boot ltsp with no dhcp server at all, or over http
16:41
<nubae>
well fine, but its not the first time I've had folks say stuff in that way to me, when I've busted my balls to make life easier for newcomers... it just starts to get to you after a while
16:41
the fun starts to fade
16:41
<zamba>
alkisg: over http instead of using tft?
16:41
alkisg: tftp*
16:41
<alkisg>
zamba: yup
16:41
<zamba>
alkisg: which means a faster boot, right?
16:41
<nubae>
but never mind me... I', just ranting now
16:42
<alkisg>
zamba: yes, among other things. You can e.g. boot ltsp over the internet
16:42
<zamba>
alkisg: cool
16:42
<alkisg>
nubae: I know the feeling. Don't let it get to you... I'm sure he didn't mean it like you understood it
16:43
<vagrantc>
and if they did mean it so badly, blow them off. it's not worth it.
16:43* vagrantc is commenting without knowing any context
16:44
<nubae>
vagrantc: thats what I did... left the channel
16:45
btw... importing git branches straight into bazaar is way cool
16:45
work via git, and then with a single click bam its in launchpad... love it
16:54alkisg has quit IRC
17:10
<sbalneav>
Yeah, don't turn into a bitter old fart like me.
17:12
vagrantc: At least I'm not Ulrich Drepper bitter.
17:12
<vagrantc>
i'm a bitter old fart too. hell, i *still* use NFS.
17:15gentgeen__ has quit IRC
17:15
<sbalneav>
YOU're not that old, you're young
17:15
<Q-FUNK>
Drepper...
17:15
<sbalneav>
You're like, not even 30 yet
17:15* Q-FUNK faits
17:15
<nubae>
sbalneav: I never appreciated how much shit u put with till lately :-)
17:15
its really a wonder you're still around
17:15
<sbalneav>
The only time my ire gets up, and the one kind of whine that will ALWAYS get a rise out of me is...
17:16
"Why doesn't someone here (write|fix) X?"
17:16
To which my answer is, always, a variation of:
17:16* vagrantc is an old young fart
17:16
<Q-FUNK>
what's wrong with X?
17:17
<sbalneav>
"What, are *YOUR* fingers broken?"
17:17
X the variable
17:17
Not X the windowing system :)
17:17
<nubae>
sbalneav: well, thats exactly what happened, only that it was after I made a suggestion to use a particular tool
17:17
<Q-FUNK>
teenage vagrant ninja turtle? ;)
17:17
<nubae>
I'm not gonna get into it though...
17:17
<vagrantc>
we'll start with your fingers, if that doesn't convince you, we'll go for the knees. that'll teach people to contribute proper-like.
17:18* vagrantc flips a coin
17:18
<Q-FUNK>
that shot with William Shatner going after a holder with this tiny gun is preceless.
17:18
<nubae>
was like.... you can use zsync.,.., they were like, how do u do that... I said.. well google it and then write a tutorial... to which they said... ah u dont know how to use it... why dont U write a tutorial
17:19
shit... I said I wasnn't gonna let it get to me
17:19
...
17:19
<vagrantc>
nubae: what you need is more coffee!
17:19
take that edge off.
17:19
<Q-FUNK>
the "show me the code" approach simply isn't a universal answer. it would be nice if some people understood that.
17:20
or, in that case, show me the tutorial
17:20* vagrantc only has a borken spoon
17:20
<vagrantc>
people will have to find their own spoon if they want to be fed.
17:21
<sbalneav>
vagrantc++
17:21gentgeen__ has joined #ltsp
17:21
<sbalneav>
nubae: Yeah, I've had that a few times.
17:22* sbalneav looks to see if ogra's gone
17:22
<sbalneav>
Pssst, hey, anyone here know anything about git and github?
17:22
I've got a problem.
17:23
<nubae>
git sure
17:23
I just ran my git branch through bazaar... was super neato
17:23
<sbalneav>
ok, so, I've got the sabayon stuff in git, 'cuz that's what upstream wants
17:24
<nubae>
u know u can import it into launchpad right?
17:24
<sbalneav>
So I'm doin' my git add's git commits and git pushes, right? Works fine
17:24
<nubae>
i mean and then use bazaar
17:24
<sbalneav>
But upstream wants to pull from me in git
17:25
anywho
17:25
so. On github, if I look at:
17:25
http://github.com/sbalneav/sabayon/tree/master
17:25
<nubae>
y didnt u make a branch upstream?
17:25
<sbalneav>
You'll see the latest "update"'s from last night
17:25
It's on the gnome servers
17:26
I'm not an official gnome developer yet.
17:26
<nubae>
ah they dont wanna give u access
17:26
?
17:26
ok
17:26
<sbalneav>
But if you look at the COMMITS:
17:26
http://github.com/sbalneav/sabayon/commits/master
17:26
You can see later commits than last night.
17:27
So, here's my question. Did I break something?
17:27
<nubae>
how are u pushing?
17:27
<sbalneav>
git push
17:27
<nubae>
and what does your config file look like?
17:28
.git/config
17:28
<sbalneav>
errrm, where's the file? I'm just as stupid at git as I am at BZR
17:28
I'm an equal opportunity idiot
17:28
one sec
17:28
<nubae>
in mainline
17:29
<ltsppbot>
"sbalneav" pasted "Not sure who the git is: me or git" (9 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/501
17:29
<nubae>
i usually push doing push origin master if i get problems
17:29
sometimes fixes things
17:30
<sbalneav>
sbalneav@phobos:~/Devel/git/sabayon$ git push origin master
17:30
Everything up-to-date
17:30
sbalneav@phobos:~/Devel/git/sabayon$
17:30
I think I've borken the web site
17:31
I'm wondering if it's because I put ' 's in a commit message
17:31
http://github.com/sbalneav/sabayon/commit/e66f4e7679dae3ab69d2b920e4c9e3b8ba9eb8b4
17:31
since thats the commit message where it stopped working
17:32
<nubae>
hmmm mine looks like: gitorious@git.sugarlabs.org:pyclic/mainline.git, pyclic being project, mainline being branch
17:32
well the commits are in the .git dir
17:32
y could try deleting the comment
17:32
and recommit
17:34
your config file looks funny though
17:34
u seem to have this missing... but maybe this is just mine:
17:34
[branch "master"]
17:34
remote = origin
17:34
merge = refs/heads/master
17:34mikkel_ has quit IRC
17:35
<sbalneav>
Hm wierd
17:36
Well, I've got a support question in, we'll see what they say.
17:36
<nubae>
u could do the following...
17:37
delete the local git, saving whatever files u modified today
17:37
then pull
17:37
then repush
17:37
I mean clone
17:37
then repush
17:38
<sbalneav>
If I do a git clone NOW in a different directory, I'm getting everything.
17:38
And it's obviously seeing my commits: I can find them.
17:39
I think I've uncovered a web site bug.
17:39
I'm betting the comment with the ''s has buggered something up.
17:39
<nubae>
looks like maybe the website didnt like your comments then
17:39
yeah
17:39
magic quotes is probably off, and their code doesnt deal with it
17:40
<sbalneav>
right.
17:40
<nubae>
if its php
17:40
<sbalneav>
Trust me to break something. :)
17:41
I'm too literate. I use things like quotes and punctuation and full words.
17:41
<nubae>
:-)
17:41
yeah they don't expect that these days
17:41
best use just acronyms to be on the safe side
17:41
<sbalneav>
i shud lern 2 typ mr web 20
17:42
Anywho
17:42
<nubae>
yys
17:42
btbs
17:42
:-)
17:42
<sbalneav>
Labour day weekend here, my fellow brothers in this glorious workers paradise!
17:43
I'm off to the cottage to, err, not labour.
17:43
<nubae>
shame that doesnt exist in Spain :-(
17:43
enjoy...
17:43
<sbalneav>
I'm off. See you all Monday night.
17:44
I'm I get really frisky, I may make a tweet.
17:44
Although most of my cottage tweets tend to either involve food, or, um. Food.
17:45
So, sayonara!
17:53
<nubae>
vagrantc: u around still?
17:53
sbalneav: have a good one
17:53
<vagrantc>
nubae: pretty much
17:54
<nubae>
can u look at something for me, tell me your opinion... been playing around with the moodle database extension
17:54
and what it can do
17:54
http://www.linux-for-education.org/mod/data/view.php?id=2747
17:55
I figured, building a little linux commands db would be helpful... in the moodle way
17:55
I just wanna know if it looks ok, and whether it'd be useful to newcomers to linux
17:55
the idea being... load each command with many usage examples
17:56
also... is the db itself obvious enough
17:56
could pretty much anyone add to it if they wanted to
17:56
?
17:56
<vagrantc>
the only part i don't get is the "similar to" stuff ...
17:57
<nubae>
ah ok... and was it obvious tht u have to click on the actual term to get more info about it?
17:57
similar to = related commands
17:57
is that better wording?
17:57
<vagrantc>
yeah, much better
17:58
similar would be appropriate for alternate implementations... related is a little more general.
17:58
<nubae>
trying to make it easy as possible for real beginners
17:58
ok, changed to related
17:58
the moodle DB module just rocks...
17:58
<vagrantc>
nubae: the link wasn't immediately obvious, but it didn't take too long to figure out
17:58
<nubae>
I havent seen anything like it in any other CMS
17:59
how could I make it more obvious... write click for more info?
17:59
or, click to expand?
17:59
make it bigger letters?
17:59
<vagrantc>
not sure
18:01
<nubae>
ok, take a look now
18:02
wow, if that DB was filled it would be so cool... every entry autolinks to documents in the rest of the site
18:02
<vagrantc>
looks better
18:02
<nubae>
so if apt-get is mentioned in a tutorial, it gets autolinked
18:02
and would take them to the entry
18:03
could u also try and see if u can add an entry as a guest user.... what does it tell u when u try?
18:03
or dont u ge thtat option in the tabs?
18:05
I guess usage would be better changed to examples
18:14
maybe u could even get some freegeekers to expand it :p
18:17
you'll notice its conspicoulsy missing debian specific tutorials
18:17Q-FUNK has quit IRC
18:39
<vagrantc>
stgraber: Name Status Last Modified Last Commit
18:39
lp:~vagrantc/ltsp/ldm-ubuntu-packaging-fixes
18:39
bah
18:39
stgraber: just a couple minor fixes that bring debian and ubuntu closer in sync
18:42
stgraber: also proposed for merging via launchpad.
19:13vagrantc has quit IRC
19:19* nubae just added a apt-get entry to the DB... wow that is a long one ;-)
20:44ogra has quit IRC
20:44ogra has joined #ltsp
20:47
<Ahmuck-Sr>
aptitude please
21:00pmatulis has quit IRC
22:15
<johnny>
hmm.. that tyler guy should rebuild his chroot
22:15
if he comes back.. please suggest it
22:16
perhaps we need to have a script that will just spit back info from the system
22:16
reading /etc/debian-release /etc/lsb-release, /etc/redhat-release, etc
22:16
for the system and chroot
22:16
basic hardware, etc
22:17
nubae, what exactly are you upset about? i don't see anything incendiary in the chatroom itself?
22:24
<Ahmuck-Sr>
johnny: u mean me ?
22:24
! apt-get, but aptitude. aptitude is better
22:25
<johnny>
huh
22:25
i've never once use aptitude
22:25
seriously..
22:25
7 year apt-get user
22:26
commands i use are just apt-get , apt-cache, and apt-file
22:26
i wonder if aptitude existed when i started
22:35
<Ahmuck-Sr>
it's a little safer iirc
22:48
<johnny>
safer?
22:49
apt-get install seems pretty safe to me
23:01alkisg has joined #ltsp
23:18
<Ahmuck-Sr>
johnny: http://pthree.org/2007/08/12/aptitude-vs-apt-get/
23:21
<johnny>
so.. why is aptitude not the default interface :)
23:21
if it's so good :)
23:21
altho good to see about the problems that used to be solved
23:21
err weren't solved
23:21
like autoremove
23:21
i remember that being a problem waaay back
23:22
<Ahmuck-Sr>
Learn aptitude. Use aptitude.
23:24
<alkisg>
Ahmuck-Sr: don't let ogra hear you, he hates aptitude :)
23:24
goodmorning btw
23:28
<Ahmuck-Sr>
yes, it's getting towards the start of morning
23:28
i'm getting sleepy though at 11:28 pm
23:29yanu has quit IRC
23:30yanu has joined #ltsp
23:49alkisg has quit IRC
23:52alkisg has joined #ltsp