IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 25 January 2012   (all times are UTC)

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04:14
<map7>
I'm trying to boot off a new ltsp server and I'm getting the error 'Error: Socket failed: Connection refused', any hints?
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05:24
<sunson>
can epoptes do windowed broadcast of screen?
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06:21
<muppis>
Trying to boot LTSP with modified win32-installer :)
06:24
<alkisg>
muppis: did you find our binary?
06:25
!win32-loader
06:25
<ltsp>
alkisg: Error: "win32-loader" is not a valid command.
06:26
<muppis>
alkisg, nope. Idea just came my mind yesterday and started trying it with this http://goodbye-microsoft.com
06:26
<alkisg>
muppis: I've tested it a couple of years ago, it worked, then I send a patch upstream, it was accepted, and we have a multilingual binary with the result in http://ts.sch.gr/docs/kanonismoi-diadikasies/doc_download/327-ltsp-loader
06:27
<muppis>
alkisg, ok. I'll test that tonight.
06:31
<alkisg>
!learn win32-loader as win32-loader.exe can be used to add a "PXE - Network boot" option to the Windows boot manager. It's developed for Debian and it uses gPXE/iPXE for the network booting. You can download a binary from http://ts.sch.gr/docs/kanonismoi-diadikasies/doc_download/327-ltsp-loader - (if someone can write a wiki page about it it'd be nice :))
06:31
<ltsp>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
06:31
<alkisg>
A greek page that describes it is in http://ts.sch.gr/tech/win32-loader - maybe someone can use google translate as a starter, and put it in some wiki
06:33
The microsoft kb for editing the boot loader order and timeout is here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/289022
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09:34
<alkisg>
Yoe_: good morning, is there any way for the .diff files created by `nbd-server -c` to persist across reboots?
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09:36
<Yoe>
alkisg: I suppose I could implement that, but I don't think that'd be a good idea
09:36
alkisg: the server has to do a lot of bookkeeping for the copy-on-write to work well, which means it's a fair bit slower
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09:37
<alkisg>
Yoe, what I want is to be able to give something like a VM to the teachers attending a seminar, so that they've root access there, they can install apache/mahara etc
09:37
<Yoe>
alkisg: it's probably better to do a prerun script that copies something off a master copy instead
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09:37
<alkisg>
So if the starting image is e.g. 10 Gb, the diff will be e.g. 1 Gb
09:37
<Yoe>
or perhaps use copy-on-write in a lower layer, like LVM
09:37
yeah, I get your point
09:37
<alkisg>
I wouldn't want to waste 10 * 20 teachers == 200 Gb on the server, I'd prefer 10 + (1*20) = 30 Gb
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09:38
<alkisg>
And I suppose it'd be better than using ltsp fat clients AND a VM on top of that
09:38
<Yoe>
I could perhaps do something like 'cowstyle=persistent'
09:38
<alkisg>
(which would again use snapshots for disk reasons)
09:39
Yoe: the seminar is in 2 months... any chances of having it ready till then? If not, I'll try the following...:
09:40
...to export the 10 gb image read-only, and to create on the fly *static* 1 Gb images for each client, and export them read-write,
09:40
<Yoe>
alkisg: not a chance, I'm afraid
09:40
<alkisg>
and combine them to the client with aufs
09:40
I guess that would work, and it would only require an initramfs script
09:40
<Yoe>
alkisg: the next two weeks, I'm busy with FOSDEM
09:40
<alkisg>
Thank you Yoe :)
09:40
Ah, cool!
09:41
<Yoe>
alkisg: the weeks after that, I could start thinking about it, but I can't get it ready and tested in one and a half month
09:42
<alkisg>
Yoe: btw, for adding images on the fly, can I tell nbd-server to re-read its configuration without losing its existing connections?
09:43
My idea is, when a client boots, some initramfs script will pass the client mac to a daemon listening on my server, and that daemon will create an 1 gb read-write file for that mac
09:43
(if it doesn't exist; else it'll reuse it, completely static per client/mac)
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09:43
<Yoe>
alkisg: yah, that's something on my long-term TODO
09:44
<alkisg>
Ouch. So, another idea, is to map from mac to ip, and use "%s" on the file string for nbd-server...
09:44
"%s" would allow for "on the fly" generated images, right?
09:44
<Yoe>
the problem is, re-reading the config file without leaking memory, and then figuring out which sockets to open and which to close is non-trivial
09:45
<alkisg>
So my daemon would see the ip and mac (ips may be dynamic, that's why all the fuss), it would create an 1 gb file for the mac, and symlink the ip to it,
09:46
and nbd-server would use the file pointed by the ip symlink (when parsing the "%s" in the file string)
09:46
Would that make sense?
09:48
<Yoe>
alkisg: sec, I broke a customer's network
09:49
<alkisg>
np
09:49
:)
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10:04
<Yoe>
there
10:04
gotta love redhat... not
10:05
first, I do 'ifdown bond0.20; ifup bond0.21' to bring up the new Internet link, but that seems to break stuff in ways I didn't expect
10:05
i.e., a kernel oopsing etc
10:05
so I have to reboot that machine.
10:06
which takes ages, because redhat slapd on a machine that uses nss-ldap takes half an hour (!) to start
10:06
since it wants to check permissions of every config file it owns, at every startup, for god knows why
10:07
but it can't very well do that without checking the ldap directory, which isn't running yet (obviously)
10:07
so then you get exponential backoff, which means that every lookup of a UID or GID or some such takes 90 seconds, at least
10:08
morons
10:08
oh well
10:19
alkisg: so, as to your question: yes, if nbd-server tries to export a file that isn't there, then you get an error message back
10:19
unless you specify the 'create' option or some such (since 2.9.24 or thereabouts)
10:20
don't recall what the exact name of that option was, but at any rate, the default is not to create a file
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10:23* alkisg was afk to get the kids from school, reading...
10:25
<alkisg>
Yoe: but I can create files on the fly from the "prerun" script, right?
10:29
<Yoe>
alkisg: that's the whole point of the prerun script, yes :-)
10:30
i.e., if it doesn't work, that's a brown paper bag bug :-)
10:33
<alkisg>
Cool :)
10:34
<Yoe>
(also see nbd-server(5), it mentions that...)
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11:54
<piet>
anybody here, who is familiar with build-client procedure?
11:56
I'm pretty new to this whole stuff and I'm trying to set up a small office net with ltsp.
11:57
<knipwim>
distro?
11:57
<piet>
I#m setting up itsp on an Oneiric-Server (Ubuntu)
11:59
the server was build - like it should be - without any desktop features . . .
11:59
<andygraybeal>
piet, i think you need a desktop on that server
11:59
if not, i'd like to know how :)
12:00
<piet>
and I guess - this is the way its supposed to - after build-client there is only a terminal after login . . .
12:01
<andygraybeal>
yes you need to build a desktop on the server
12:01
sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop (or whichever desktop you prefer)
12:02
<piet>
is there a possibility to install the desktop under the chroot only - or do I have to build it on the server itself?
12:02
<andygraybeal>
i do not know enough, maybe someone else here does
12:04
<piet>
its because I think setting it up under the server would be a security breach and not that good to server performance isnt it?
12:04
<andygraybeal>
i think yoru theory sounds good.
12:04
piet, this is how i approached it w hen i started too..
12:05
well not started.. but a while into it when i started again.
12:06
<piet>
yeah, let me hear Your stuff . . .
12:06
<andygraybeal>
i don't understand what you mean
12:07
i don't think i can help you, i bet any number of people here can though
12:07
i try to help but fail miserably often :)
12:07
<piet>
<this is how i approached> sounds like as if You want to tell me like You did it . . .
12:08
<andygraybeal>
aah no, i did approach it like you did.. but i ran into the problem where.. i was told that i needed a desktop on my server.
12:09
that is all
12:09
nothing more than i've mentioned previously
12:09
and maybe you know a way around it, so i felt like i wasn't being helpful
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12:10
<alkisg>
(02:02:11 μμ) piet: is there a possibility to install the desktop under the chroot only - or do I have to build it on the server itself?
12:10
==> there is, if you use fat clients
12:10
!fatclients
12:10
<ltsp>
alkisg: fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
12:11
<alkisg>
Are your clients good enough for that? How much RAM do they have?
12:11
<andygraybeal>
aah no way! awesome!!!
12:11
totally bad ass.. your amazing alkisg
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12:13
<andygraybeal>
i so need to virtualize and test that now
12:13
<piet>
I already read a howto about that and I think they would be (about 1-2GB mem), but Im not deep enough into the whole stuff to see why this should work. Can You pls explain the backgrounds a little further . . .
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12:14
<alkisg>
piet: thin clients == the apps run on the server
12:14
So the desktop environment needs to be installled and up and running on the server
12:14
It's not trivial to do that in a chroot, i.e. to have a global chroot with dbus and everything up and running for all clients, so that is done on the server root , /
12:15
fat clients == the server disk is used, actually a chroot for root plus a networked /home, but the apps run locally
12:15
The server is only used for authentication (via ssh) and for a shared /home
12:16
So it doesn't need to have a graphics environment installed in its root file system. It only needs that in the chroot, which the clients will get
12:16
That's about it, for more details read the docs
12:16
<piet>
Im starting the whole thing brand new, so what do You think is the smoothest way for a newby?
12:17
<alkisg>
It depends on your requirements
12:17
What programs will your clients be using?
12:17
<piet>
Fat sounds quick but complicated?
12:17
<alkisg>
No, it's not much more complicated than thins
12:18
<piet>
office, multimedia, internet . . .
12:18
<alkisg>
you can easily watch 12 full screen youtube videos with fat clients without straining your network or server cpu
12:18
You can't even watch 1 full screen youtube video with thin clients
12:19
<andygraybeal>
go fat if you got the memory on the clients! i got 1GB - 1.5GB in all my clients, i'm going fat this morning.
12:19
<alkisg>
So for casual web+office use, fats are usually the best choice, if your clients are up to it
12:19
<andygraybeal>
i do wish i knew that i could have a desktop-less server, but this will be when i upgrade to virtual ltsp server in august :)
12:22
piet, thank you for asking :)
12:23
<piet>
I'm a litlle confused in the moment: How does the build-client script knows that it has to pack a desktop-environment into the paket?
12:23
I mean in the fat client . . .
12:24
does there has to be a complete installation already on the client?
12:25
I know stupid questions for somebody who is in the whole thing already . . .
12:28
does <piet, thank you for asking :)> means something like shut up enough silly questions? ;-)
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12:41
<piet>
everybody gone to dishes? So thank You for Your help . . .
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12:43
<andygraybeal>
piet, i was getting coffee nad had to run to my car to get a tax form!!!
12:43
bur your gone
13:03
<_UsUrPeR_>
andygraybeal: I had noticed you tried to get hold of me over the weekend
13:04
<andygraybeal>
_UsUrPeR_, yea man, just wondering about firmware updates; i don't recall the model number at the moment.
13:04
i can look it up
13:04
1412 i think, but i am not sure
13:04
<_UsUrPeR_>
I think it was the 1420
13:04
<andygraybeal>
okay, yes then, that sounds correct
13:05
i coudln't find the firmware version on it.. but maybn ei'm an idiot :)
13:05
and i hope you don't mind me contacting you in this channel
13:08
<_UsUrPeR_>
not at all
13:08
that's what I'm here for
13:09
unfortunately, there is no firmware or BIOS upgrades for the 1420. The unit's been discontinued :/
13:09
what is the problem you are having?
13:09
<andygraybeal>
you know, it just acts strange.. turning on
13:10
i don't even remember it's so strange and happens so infrequently.. i was simply wondering if there was a firmware upgrade i could run that would magically fix all my ailments :P
13:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
Hmm... I am not too familiar with any booting problems those clients had.
13:11
<andygraybeal>
yea, this is fine.
13:11
i wouldn't worry about it. it's so infrequent that the women who uses it doesn't mind it.
13:11
i think she prefers a quircky computer
13:11
er, atleast in her mind :)
13:12
<_UsUrPeR_>
heh
13:12
at least she considers it a computer
13:12
<andygraybeal>
she loves how small it is :)
13:12
and she lvoes that it sits behind her monitor
13:12
er, mounted behind her monitor
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14:16
<andygraybeal>
so i must have done something incorrectly, with that 'fat-client' install. i've done this before in a testing vm. this time i tried it on my live ltsp server (not vm) - it's already running as a thin client server, so i deleted the /opt/ltsp/i386 folder (after backing it up) then i made the changes to /etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf as mentioned on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients (i remarked out the LATE_PACKAGES a
14:16
nd DEBCONF_SEEDS, for simplicity for now), i removed the compression line. then i did the 'sudo ltsp-build-client'; for whatever reason, my machines are still booting as thin clients :(
14:16
i must have done something wrong
14:17
any advice? it's too late in the day for me to try anything at this point.. everyone that needs to use the computers is arriving to work
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14:31
<alkisg>
grep '' /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp*
14:31
andygraybeal: ^
14:32
<andygraybeal>
alkisg, okay
14:32
andy@buddleia:/opt/ltsp/images$ grep '' /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp*
14:32
/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp_chroot:LTSP_CHROOT=/opt/ltsp/i386
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14:43
<andygraybeal>
alkisg, any ideas?
14:43
user stupidity :P i've gotten it to work before on a VM, so i'm not worried..and i should just wait till i get that up and running
14:43
i thought i'd give this a whirl though since i've been wanting to do it for a while.
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14:51
<alkisg>
andygraybeal: that's not a fat chroot then
14:51
<andygraybeal>
aah can you tell me what i did incorrectly?
14:51
<alkisg>
It doesn't have the ltsp_fat_chroot file there
14:52
Dunno, maybe put your ltsp-build-client.conf file to pastebin?
14:52
<andygraybeal>
ah no i don't see that.
14:52
okay, i will do so
14:53
i'm an effing idiot
14:53
:q
14:54
sorry to bother you, i will try this again tomorrow.. i edited the wrong file
14:54
thank you very much for your handholding
14:54
it is appreciated.. i just hate it when i'm stupid
14:55
<alkisg>
np :)
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17:46
<andygraybeal>
khildin, 1.8 peice of cake
17:47
<khildin>
:)
17:55
<andygraybeal>
khildin, are there courses i can download and import into the system? something generic?
17:56
<khildin>
http://lmgtfy.com :P
17:58
You can look for SCORM packages: http://moodle.org/mod/data/view.php?id=7198
17:58
<andygraybeal>
aah scorm
17:58
cool
17:58
i have been googling, btw :)
17:58
not much comes up
17:59
<khildin>
be aware that chamilo supports scorm 1.2 and not scorm 2004
17:59
<andygraybeal>
okay, thankyou
17:59
is 1.2 newer than 2004?
17:59
<khildin>
no
17:59
but 2004 doesn't add too much I think
17:59
<andygraybeal>
ok
18:04
nobody is talking in #chamilo
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19:42
<sacarde>
hi
19:43
how can I control X resolution of a client LTSP ?
19:44
<alkisg>
!lts.conf | echo sacarde:
19:44
<ltsp>
sacarde: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
19:44
<alkisg>
XRANDR_MODE_0 there
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19:55
<sacarde>
ok
19:55
thanks
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