IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 24 January 2009   (all times are UTC)

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00:18
<alkisg>
stgraber, about the xgettext thing, couldn't "file" be used to see the file types and then pass the appropriate "--language" parameter to xgettext?
00:19
Of course a "case" would be needed to convert "Bourne-Again shell script text executable" returned by file to "Shell" expected by xgettext --language, but it's only for 3-4 different file types, so it won't be hard...
00:22
<SDuensin>
alkisg, do you ever sleep?
00:22
<alkisg>
SDuensin: heh... I just woke up, I'm on UTC+2 .... 8:22 in the morning
00:23
<SDuensin>
Ah! It's 12:23am here. I'm up watching Babylon 5 while the wife and kid are sleeping.
00:23* alkisg is looking at imdb for babylon 5...
00:23
<SDuensin>
It's EXCELLENT science fiction. Basically a 5-year long TV novel.
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00:26
<johnny>
kc8pxy, you about yet?
00:28
<SDuensin>
johnny - any progress with Sabayon?
00:28
<johnny>
SDuensin, no.. i had to work many shifts in our store instead..
00:28
and i've been trying to get my gentoo ltsp box back up
00:29
<SDuensin>
Is there anything I can do to just make it run?
00:29
<johnny>
after that, i'll be able to work with scott
00:29* SDuensin is a Scott!
00:29
<johnny>
it runs for me..
00:29
sorta..
00:29
get back to me in 2 days
00:29
<SDuensin>
Nothing on Ubuntu. Dunno why they even bothered to package it.
00:30
<johnny>
i had it working on ubuntu.. as long as i didn't prod it :)
00:30
<SDuensin>
Is pressing "Edit" considered prodding?
00:30
<johnny>
you're probably gonna have to install out of svn if you wanna help test it and whatnot
00:30
<SDuensin>
I can do that.
00:30* SDuensin is a code monkey.
00:31
<johnny>
you could help out with the patches then?
00:31
<SDuensin>
I don't speak Python. I could learn.
00:32
I'm up to my ears in stuff now, but I do like to contribute to things I use.
00:44
<alkisg>
Ryan52: thanks for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/revision/1063 :)
00:45
But I think break should ALWAYS be executed if (res == -1)...
00:45
<SDuensin>
You guys all rock. I really appreciate all the work that's been put into LTSP.
00:54
<Ryan52>
alkisg, the other possible errors that can cause it to return -1 are programming mistakes...I want things to be all weird and screwy and spamming syslog if somebody breaks the code, rather than it outputing a one line long error and acting normal.
01:04
<alkisg>
Understood. Thanks again!
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01:31
<alkisg>
Is this a good way to send a patch? `bzr branch lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk`, then modify e.g. el.po, then `bzr diff`, and finally send the result in the ltsp-devel mailing list?
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05:57
<nubae>
hmmm, doesn't ltsp-update-kernels do the same as: /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels in chroot?
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06:56
<alkisg>
nubae: I think that the chroot version updates the kernels, the server version copies the chroot kernels to the server tftp directory.
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07:30
<nubae>
I thought the server version builds kernels too
07:30
not just copy
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10:23
<stgraber>
alkisg: about the "file" thing, if I can do that I can also tell xgettext that everything in rc.d/ are shell scripts ...
10:23
alkisg: but in this case, the Makefile is gnenerated by autotools so I can't :)
10:23
*:(
10:23
<alkisg>
Ah.... I hate autotools
10:23
I had to use them once 3 years ago, and I still hurt! :P
10:24
<stgraber>
yeah ... for ltsp-trunk we have our own stuff for gettext and it works relatively well but with ldm it only works with the C code :(
10:25
<alkisg>
Anyway... I'm trying to dive a little deeper into ltsp... do you happen to know why ltspfs was implemented instead of using sshfs (from the server to the client) ?
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10:29
<alkisg>
stgraber, have you even used cmake? Is it really better than autotools?
10:38
<johnny>
alkisg, because sshfs couldn't do certain things at the time
10:39
some of them it can do now, not sure if it is all.
10:39
<nubae>
hey johnny... u were looking for me the other day...
10:40
<johnny>
and now i forgot why..
10:40
<nubae>
:-)
10:40
<alkisg>
Thanks johnny
10:40
<johnny>
there are reasons people still use autotools after all this time over newer things
10:40
it's not just habit.
10:41
<alkisg>
I don't know autotools nor cmake, I just read some articles saying that it's a good thing (tm) and people are supposed to switch to it... :P
10:42
<johnny>
then there's scons. and a million other tools.. all saying that
10:42
<nubae>
whats wrong with autotools?
10:42
<alkisg>
For me it's just that it is difficult to learn
10:42
Too many things to remember to just build a project
10:42
<johnny>
nubae, stgraber is having trouble making non .sh extensioned shell scripts being known by gettext
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10:43
<nubae>
ah
10:43
<johnny>
read up 30 or so lines
10:43
also a really recent post on ltsp-developer
10:45
<nubae>
there's a nice howto for autotools here: http://markuskimius.wikidot.com/programming:tut:autotools
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11:34
<Guza>
on ubuntu ltsp work perfectly
11:34
when u will fix ltsp on gentoo?
11:36
<johnny>
well. it is always going to be harder on gentoo, as we cannot force certain settings on our users
11:36
unlike ubuntu
11:36
so things can work easier on ubuntu
11:36
<Guza>
heh
11:36
<johnny>
i actually use ubuntu ltsp at my store
11:36
<Guza>
never mind
11:36
<johnny>
it works nice
11:36
<Guza>
yes
11:36
it works great
11:37
great work
11:37
dont know what else to say
11:39
3 days i was trying to setup ltsp on gentoo :D
11:39
<johnny>
Guza, there are many things in gentoo that make things not as easy.. i must force certain unstable packages to be installed
11:39
<Guza>
i found some manuals on gentoo web site:D
11:39
<johnny>
you did not find any working manual
11:39
<Guza>
nope
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11:39
<Guza>
i don't
11:39
<johnny>
the ltsp guide on gentoo is for ltsp 4 which is deprecated
11:39
<Guza>
:D
11:39
<johnny>
Guza, perhpas you can help make certain packages stable
11:40
<Guza>
no i cant
11:40
<johnny>
so i won't have to hack so much :)
11:40
<Guza>
i am not programer
11:40
:)
11:40
<johnny>
using gentoo properly is hard if you are not a programmer
11:40
<Guza>
just like gentoo
11:40
well sometimes
11:40
yes is hard
11:41
but more funny
11:41
:)
11:41
<johnny>
well atm .. i can't build pango on my server
11:41
so i can't test my ltsp
11:41
nor can i build firefox :(
11:41
<Guza>
LOL
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11:42
<Guza>
well once mroe time
11:42
<johnny>
all my fonts come up as squares
11:42
<Guza>
great work
11:42
i must go
11:42
:)
11:42
<johnny>
when i get that stuff worked out.. i can test it
11:42
<Guza>
and thanks for sharing it
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11:58
<pdjbarber>
can anyone help me in locating where the tftp server is configured in opensuse kiwi-ltsp?
11:58
i have my DHCP server on a firewall with no TFTP server capabilty, and it loads initial tftp file, but then tries to go to "server tftp." cannot find it so goes to DHCP server
11:58
ie my firewall
12:06
<alkisg>
"it loads initial tftp file"... which file, pxelinux.0? and from where? the dhcp server or the ltsp server?
12:07
<pdjbarber>
it loads the initial tftp file from the ltsp server using the "next server" paramater on the dhcp server
12:09
the initail file is the pxelinus.0 file
12:09
sorry pxelinux.0 file
12:10
<alkisg>
And what do you mean with "then tries to go to "server tftp." cannot find" ?
12:10
The next file to be loaded would be pxelinux.cfg/default (or mac address) and then the kernel
12:11
<pdjbarber>
the boot messages say "Checking server name: tftp."
12:11
then "server: tftp. not found"
12:11
<alkisg>
Well, if it thinks that your server is named "tftp" it will be difficult to find it! :)
12:12
But before that, doesn't it load the pxelinux configuration file?
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12:12
<pdjbarber>
finally "using <dhcpserverIP> from dhcpcd-info
12:12
<johnny>
simple fix .. tell your server that tftp exists.. as a hostname..
12:13
and it is the same as your ltsp server
12:13
or.. look at your dhcp config and set the hostname there
12:13
<pdjbarber>
i have put a dns entry in for tftp in my dns server but still same problem
12:13
<alkisg>
...it shouldn't be loading pxelinux.0 if dhcp.conf was misconfigured...
12:13
<pdjbarber>
it loads pxelinux.0 from ltsp server no problems
12:13
<johnny>
alkisg, it's the second time through
12:14
in the initramfs that it is screwed up
12:14
but that is some custom suse thing
12:14
<alkisg>
pdjbarber: is your kernel/initramfs loading at all? or it stops right after loading pxelinux.0?
12:15
<pdjbarber>
it is loading with no probs, only on second tftp file it is having problems
12:16
<alkisg>
Ah, ok, if the kernel is loading then it's not a tftp problem
12:16
<johnny>
alkisg, yes it could be.. for lts.conf
12:16
ubuntu/gentoo/fedora get the lts.conf over tftp
12:17
suse probably does too
12:17
<alkisg>
johnny: I meant that tftp is not to blame, it isn't misconfigured, it works ok, something else is the problem (like, thinking that the server hostname is tftp)
12:17
<johnny>
but gentoo and fedora do it after the initramfs, while ubuntu/debian does it in the initramfs
12:17
yes.. thus my comment about the suse initramfs earlier
12:17
i don't know if suse does it in the initramfs or after
12:17
<pdjbarber>
i think Suse gets the lts.conf after initramfs
12:18
<alkisg>
pdjbarber: so what is it trying to load from tftp?
12:18
<pdjbarber>
a config file...which is what i was used to seeing with LTSP4
12:19
<johnny>
yes.. lts.conf
12:19
<alkisg>
Ok... I have no idea about this, I thought it was a tftp problem. Why don't you try asking in #kiwi?
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12:20
<pdjbarber>
ok...will try #kiwi then, thanks
12:24
<alkisg>
I wonder what linux would look like if there was only one (highly customizable) distro out there, with much fewer toolkits / window managers / alternatives, so that programmers could better focus their efforts...
12:24
<johnny>
that's not what would happen
12:24
<laga>
alkisg: people would develop additional distros, more toolkits/WMs/alternatives
12:24
<alkisg>
Heh...
12:24
<johnny>
that's not how programmers work
12:25
there is one exception to the rule tho
12:25
<alkisg>
E.g. I have 17 years of experience with assembly / C / windows API, and I'm 1 year to linux, and I can't code anything... I can't even select a toolkit! :)
12:25
<johnny>
gtk+/qt
12:25
if qt would have been LGPL from the start.. we might not have gtk+
12:25
and that would have been a big deal
12:26
<alkisg>
johnny: if you were in my position, what would you choose among the two of them?
12:26
<johnny>
depends
12:26
on your portability concerns
12:26
<alkisg>
I'd like my apps to be able to run on windows, because they'll probably be educational applications
12:26
<johnny>
generally.. i only write webapps :)
12:26
for ultra portability :)
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12:27
<alkisg>
Sure... like web engines aren't a hell...
12:27
<johnny>
ie6 is the devil
12:27
<alkisg>
My site even runs on ie4 :P :D
12:27
<johnny>
sure.. for now..
12:27
as you're not taking advantage of newer js frameworks
12:27
which make things much easier to deal with
12:27
like jquery
12:28
<alkisg>
That's true, I don't use any framework.
12:28
<johnny>
i'd suggest it
12:28
or.. you could do a prism app
12:28
an xulrunner app
12:28
<alkisg>
Nah, I like building my own libraries from scratch
12:28
<johnny>
that is silly
12:28
don't do it
12:28
take advantage of what exists
12:28
don't reinvent the wheel
12:28
<alkisg>
I like the experience, it's not like I'm trying to make money out of it
12:29
<johnny>
be the change you want to see
12:29
right now.. you're directly contradicting your original intent
12:29
ie: "what if there were only one..."
12:29
<alkisg>
Yes, that would save me time, I wouldn't have to make my own library to run in IE4 to 8, webkit, gecko, khtml etc...
12:30
<johnny>
ie4???
12:30
those people can't even see much of the internet
12:30
<alkisg>
Yes, there are some schools with ie4...
12:30
<johnny>
hack em
12:30
so they have to upgrade :)
12:30
<alkisg>
I had an embedded mshtml in one of my applications
12:30
So I had to support windows 95/98 etc
12:30
<johnny>
that would suck
12:30
people are dropping support for that left and right
12:31
does gtk or qt still work on that even? :)
12:31
<alkisg>
Yeap... 6 months of development, and 4 years on compatibility / portability debugging...
12:31
Bah, I got tired now, I'm also dropping support for them, so I don't care if qt/gtk support them
12:31
<johnny>
good
12:32
those people need to be forced to upgrade
12:32
people like them are holding back the internet
12:32
<alkisg>
Well, I used to be one of those people, with ancient PCs I couldn't do much. Then my school got a server and I got to know ltsp, and things changed... :)
12:33
Money is the main problem for upgrading :(
12:33
<johnny>
raise some money :)
12:33
every student gives $2 .. and you can upgrade :)
12:33
student/parent
12:33
bug corporations for old computers
12:34
<alkisg>
I got 2 celerons / 600 Mhz from corporations. You can't really do much with them, except for ltsp clients
12:34
<johnny>
which to them are really old.. but newer than what you have :)
12:34
try ones with a shorter upgrade cycle
12:34
2 or 3 years is fine
12:34
<alkisg>
I don't think we have such organizations in my town! :)
12:35
<johnny>
go farther afield :)
12:35
greece is not a huge country
12:36
<alkisg>
But anyway, now with ltsp they're fine, I can even watch 20 fps full screen video. Only 3d apps are missing, but I don't care much
12:36
<johnny>
alkisg, maybe i do world tour of ltsp.
12:36
get ltsp users to feed me on my travels as i help them with system admin tasks and programming :)
12:37
<alkisg>
Well, if you ever come to greece, you have a place to stay and as much beer as you can drink. No lobster, though... :P
12:37
<johnny>
i would love to do an "open source world tour"
12:38
it would be awesome.
12:38
i could probably make that trip last an entire year
12:38
<alkisg>
Ah, things are easy for bachelors... :(
12:39
<johnny>
i'm not one..
12:39
got a gf
12:39
<alkisg>
Well, you can take her with you, I'm sure she won't object to a trip round the world... :P
12:40
Me, with 3 kids, it's more difficult! :D
12:41
<johnny>
that's why i haven't had kids :)
12:41
yet
12:42
<alkisg>
....and I got to go now, to feed one of them!!! :P bbl
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15:48
<tinpardo>
hola
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16:57
<wpger>
anyone figure out how to have an Xsession follow you from terminal to terminal?
16:58
any way to redirect an existing session to another terminal
16:58
<johnny>
something everybody wants..
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19:00
<stgraber>
vagrantc: about your changes to the .pot, they will be overwritten the next time we update them. You should fine a way to fix that in the autotools scripts/templates or in the Makefiles
19:01
vagrantc: basically, doing: sh autogen.sh && ./configure && cd po && make ldm.pot shouldn't overwrite your changes
19:02
<vagrantc>
stgraber: yeah, i know. but it's important to have those changes in there, as those are important things to have if someone starts a new translation
19:03
<stgraber>
yeah, I'm pretty sure you can tell the autotools what to put in these fields and so it won't overwrite them the next time we rebuild the .pot
19:04
but I'm not really an autotools expert so can't really help here :)
19:05
<vagrantc>
yeah, i just posted a message suggesting maybe to switch away from autotools for the .po* stuff, if that's actually easier.
19:09
<warren>
hmm, is using -depth really the best idea?
19:09
can't you do exactly the same thing with options in xorg.conf?
19:09
it seems inconsistent
19:12
<vagrantc>
if the only option you're changing is -depth, why generate an xorg.conf?
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19:55
<stgraber>
vagrantc: just read your message, as far as I'm concerned, the less we rely on autotools for things that can be done another way the better :)
19:56
<vagrantc>
heh
19:56
<stgraber>
for the po/ dir using autotools seems extremely complex and hard to change it to work the way you want
19:57
<vagrantc>
right, that's why i suggested autotools ... for some things, autotools is a good thing. but if it's something simple, i don't see much reason to go with it.
19:57
er, suggested *not* using autotools...
19:58
<stgraber>
I don't know if xgettext can be told that some files are c and some other are scripts and if we can tell it to append its output to an existing .pot
19:58
if not, we may have to generate two distincts pot
19:58
<vagrantc>
or merge two pot files...
19:59
xgettext --join-existing maybe, on a second or third run...
20:01
<stgraber>
ok, I guess I'll wait till tomorrow and if nobody comes with the autotools way of doing it I'll just go ahead and get rid of autotools for gettext and implement something similar to what was done for ltsp-server
20:01
<vagrantc>
--package-name and --package-version to hopefully set that stuff properly...
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20:04
<vagrantc>
hrm. --package-name and --package-version only substitute in project-id-version ... *sigh*
20:08
<warren>
you don't need to autotoolize every part of it
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20:44
<stgraber>
anyone working on ltsp-trunk at the moment ? I'm planning to tag soon (packaging something else at the moment, then I'll do it)
20:44
<warren>
I'm fixing something Fedora only for ltsp-trunk, but testing will require more time
20:44
just go ahead
20:44
I'll just tag again later.
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21:27
<Shingoshi>
What makes kiwi-ltsp different from everything else that's out there?
21:43
<vagrantc>
it's kind of it's own thing.
21:44
they use some of the ltsp software, but a lot is just implemented in their own way with their own convetions...
21:53
<stgraber>
vagrantc: looks like I was a lot behind at syncing ltsp-build-client plugins with Debian :)
21:53
<vagrantc>
i've done a bunch of crazy stuff, yes. :)
21:54
<stgraber>
I just had a quick look through your plugin list and symlinked everything that should apply to both Debian and Ubuntu
21:54
btw, for things that work for both Debian and Ubuntu I'd suggest we put them in Debian and then symlink from Ubuntu
21:55
<vagrantc>
having symlinks in both directions isn't really a bad thing.
21:56* vagrantc is hankerin to plan another hackfest
21:58* vagrantc waves
22:01
<johnny>
hello vagrantc
22:01
vagrantc, we will meet again someday
22:01
of that i am sure
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22:59
<johnny>
kc8pxy, you around?
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