IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 7 August 2011   (all times are UTC)

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10:29
<knipwim>
when building the client in Ubuntu, is it possible to select a specific kernel version?
10:30
<alkisg>
I don't think so, but you can use --late-packages to install it
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10:33
<knipwim>
check, wondering if there was a plugin which i could adapt :)
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13:11
<markit>
hi ppl, hi alkisg
13:11
<alkisg>
Hello
13:12
<markit>
alkisg: do fat clients stress much or less the network torward the server? I know the process is local, but boot and hd "image" is on the server. Do you think it worth put 2 nic in bond?
13:13
I suppose network is used less frequently, but much heavier when it is
13:15
Damianos: have you solved your issue about connecting to the server from your wife's laptop? I've seen a tutorial about the use of x11vnc
13:15
(not specific to ltsp: http://userbase.kde.org/Tutorials/Access_another_computer%27s_display)
13:16
<alkisg>
markit: yes, fat clients stress the network less than thin clients. As for if bonding would make things better for you, it depends on other factors, like switches, client bandwidth/cpu etc
13:17
<markit>
alkisg: the new pc have gbit, the switch is gbit, the server is gbit...
13:17
<alkisg>
Damianos: you can install italc on standalone machines too. Or you can have your wife's laptop boot as an ltsp lcient
13:17
markit: how many clients?
13:17
<markit>
alkisg: 16
13:17
<alkisg>
Yes bonding would help then
13:18
<markit>
alkisg: teacher can boot as ltsp client, be able to use italc as "server" mode and also be able to shutdown the server?
13:18
<alkisg>
Sure
13:19
<markit>
"sure" is not so sure :)
13:19
for instance, in kde I have the choice if shutdown can be done (locally one setup, remote another) but everybody or root only
13:19
if I set "everyone" remote, every student can shutdown
13:20
if I set "root only" you have to assign a password to root
13:20
teacher have to change user to root, and then can shutdown, AFAIR
13:21
<alkisg>
I don't understand what you're saying. You're having some problems with KDE settings and LTSP?
13:21
<markit>
no if the teacher is on the server
13:21
if teacher is on ltsp client I don't know how to let him shutdown the server
13:22
now I've setup teh server to shutdown if you press poweroff
13:22
so I can tell the teacher to logout from his client, go to the server and press the button
13:22
<alkisg>
You want the teacher to be logged on on a fat client, and shutdown the server?
13:22
Or thin client?
13:22
<markit>
thin
13:22
(btw, how could it be done in fat?)
13:23
<alkisg>
That's a policykit setting, to allow remote users to shutdown the server or not
13:23
<markit>
alkisg: you mean that you can say what user can or cannot? Like "who belongs to teacher's group"?
13:23
because from KDE setting I can only choose between "everybody" and "root"
13:23
and in Kubuntu you are not root
13:24
<alkisg>
Policykit is a framework that defines who can access some services, settings etc
13:24
And by default it doesn't allow PC shutdown for remote (ssh) users like ltsp thin clients
13:24
If you change that setting, then any remote user will be able to shutdown the server
13:24
Not related to LTSP at all.
13:24
<markit>
every remote user? that's the problem
13:25
<alkisg>
If you only want a specific user to be able to shutdown the server, look at the sudoers file
13:25
Again, not ltsp related
13:26
<markit>
maybe KDE settings poorly map policykit ones, or the wording are confusing, I'll experiment further, thanks for the tips and the "right direction"
13:26
<alkisg>
No, those are the policykit settings
13:26
It doesn't allow refinement (per user settings etc)
13:27
<markit>
I'll have a deeper look then, thanks again
13:27
<alkisg>
Check sudoers, it allows per user or per group settings
13:27
<markit>
alkisg: btw, I've solved the dvi-vga video issue
13:27
<Hyperbyte>
markit, how? :)
13:27
That's interesting.
13:27
<markit>
Hyperbyte: well, it's depressing
13:28
with my monitor I was not able to have ksm work
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13:28
<markit>
and if disabled, every xorg.conf setting I've tried was not able to give me full hd resolution
13:28
the same dvi-vga adapeter on a AMD video board of a different pc worked fine with ksm
13:29
I was desperate, but since 10.10 worked fine at school
13:29
and not only 11.04 but also 10.10 did not here
13:29
I went to school and attached the pc to the "magic board"
13:29
and it simply works!
13:29
and projectom max resolution is 1024x768
13:30
so in any case also disabling ksm would have been enough
13:30
<Hyperbyte>
a-ha!
13:30
<markit>
but I've lost a couple of days in clueless tests
13:30
and in addition I'm a lot scared about X and xorg.conf now
13:30
i.e. I connected my monitor with dvi direct
13:30
that works fine
13:31
then added a password to root, su -
13:31
and Xorg -configure (or something like that)
13:31
that dumped a fair complex xorg.conf.new file under /root
13:31
I've copied it to /etc/X11/xorg.conf
13:31
disablet ksm
13:32
and rebooted with dvi-vga adapter ... but was not able to have more that 1280x1024 or something like that
13:32
that's really strange... I've added some modesettings lines or something like that, but nothing worked
13:32
to make it short
13:33
or ksm works, or I'm currently unable to create a xorg.conf that make it work
13:33
I've the fear that a different brand of magic board or a different model could have black screen
13:34
and I would be in big troubles then :(
13:34
Hyperbyte: btw, do you use ACL?
13:34
I need to create common directories with sophisticated policies
13:35
acl works great but only if you create directly on that directories
13:35
if teacher copies a file from his home to the shared dir
13:35
own file permissions are preserved and ruin acl ones
13:36
(that can never go beyond basic ones)
13:36
with samba you can "force" files permissions, with GNU acl seems not
13:36
wondering how a OS that is born as "multiuser" can lack such basic functionalities
13:37
sometime I'm really surprised :(
13:42
<alkisg>
Indeed, an easy way to force "parent owner/rights" isn't available in linux, unless you mount that dir with another file system.
13:42
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/3916/
13:48
<markit>
alkisg: you confirm my depression :) thanks for the link
13:49
but isn't incredible???
13:49
<alkisg>
Yeah, I wonder why this "local shared folders" problem hasn't yet come up in any file system developers mailing lists
13:50
<markit>
becouse true programmer don't share ;P
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13:50
<alkisg>
It shouldn't be very hard to implement it with the setgid bit for directories
13:50
<markit>
acl can "force" creation with the right permissions
13:51
is just that if you copy a file that has "normal" permissions (acl adds to those normal ones) restrictive
13:51
<alkisg>
I didn't find any real task where ACL helps me
13:51
<markit>
acl don't enlarge them
13:51
<alkisg>
So I've never used them. All I'm missing is the local shared folders bit, and ACLs don't help there
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13:54
<markit>
I read "Move it to shared folder".. what is it? a folder ubuntu creates somewhere?
13:54
oh, no my foult
13:55* markit still sleepy
13:58
<alkisg>
In the future, I want to try autofs + bindfs, that might do it
13:58
So, one shared folder per class, automatically mounted with autofs when some student tries to access it
14:00
<markit>
for me having dolphin (and konqueror) respect (impose) acl directory default permissions when copying files would be enough
14:00
I mean, that should be the right easy thing to do
14:00
<alkisg>
Why are you mentioning acl? Do you do something different with those?
14:01
Or just "default linux directory permissions" would be enough?
14:01
autofs/bindfs would also work with dolphin etc
14:02
<Damianos>
Hi folks....sorry but I've been away from my desk
14:02
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, umask not suitable?
14:02
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: umask is per process, not per parent directory
14:02
<Hyperbyte>
That's what I use at work. umask plus chmod +s on shared folders.
14:02
<Damianos>
I solved my problem with italC
14:02
<Hyperbyte>
True, it's set for all directories.
14:02
Not a problem for my setup though.
14:03
Why is it for yours?
14:03
<markit>
alkisg: because with ACL you can manage very well groups and creation permissions and accesses, like ehm... with M$craops
14:03
<alkisg>
markit: specific example from a real use case?
14:04
Hyperbyte: The desired end result is: for class a1 to have a shared directory e.g. /home/a1 where all group members will have full read/write access there, but no other groups will have access there
14:04
<markit>
alkisg: well, I experimented them time ago, then I gave up but I need directories where teachers can r/w, but students only read
14:04
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: umask doesn't suffice for that
14:04
<markit>
or dirs where both musth have R/W
14:04
<alkisg>
markit: I do that with regular linux permissions
14:04
<markit>
or other where teachers must have access and students not
14:04
etc.
14:04
alkisg: it does not work with regular linux
14:04
<alkisg>
I haven't yet found a real use case where ACLs would help me in my classrooms
14:05
markit: why not? just create a "teachers" group
14:05
<markit>
except if you change umask default
14:05
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, why doesn't umask suffice for that?
14:05
<markit>
and do a lot of nasty things
14:05
but then you have other drawbacks
14:05
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: read that link I wrote above, there are lots of pages describing why all combinations don't work
14:05
<Hyperbyte>
At work I have different shared directories for different user groups. All members of the groups have read/write access in it and file permissions are done automatically.
14:06
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: bindfs works, but it's silly to have 1 mount for each shared dir
14:06
Hyperbyte: for starters, copying a tree doesn't change the owner
14:07
<Hyperbyte>
mhm
14:07
<alkisg>
So the others don't have write access to that dir
14:07
*moving
14:08
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, yeah, that's not handy. Not a good solution, but maybe you could do something with auditd in this regard?
14:08
<alkisg>
Is auditd some daemon?
14:08
<Hyperbyte>
Track changes to files inside the shared directory, and correct permissions if needed?
14:08
<alkisg>
It sounds much more hackish than using bindfs
14:08
<Hyperbyte>
Heheheh
14:09
<alkisg>
bindfs corrects the permissions on copy, not after a while
14:09
<Hyperbyte>
Hackish is my middle name, you should know that by now. =D
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14:09
<alkisg>
Hehe
14:09
Hyperbyte: can autofs unmount a dir when it's no longer used?
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14:24
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, I believe it does automatically, on the timeout specified in the config.
14:24
<alkisg>
Sounds like the way to go then, autofs + bindfs
14:26
<Hyperbyte>
bindfs == mount --bind ?
14:29
<alkisg>
No, (04:42:19 μμ) alkisg: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/3916/ ==> http://code.google.com/p/bindfs/
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18:58
<Bronze>
hi, I'm looking for a tool that allows one person, like a teacher, to let others "see" their desktop, or to see a presentation, over a network connection. X11 on both ends. something simpler that teacher-tool, (which is a great tool but overkill for this maybe)
18:59
I think I saw tools like this mentioned in here, years ago, but can't remember their names
19:11
<Hyperbyte>
!italc
19:11
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: italc: http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=ITALC_in_a_ThinClient_environment.
19:11
<Hyperbyte>
That's the one you want I think. :)
19:21
<Bronze>
Hyperbyte: thank you.
19:23
<Hyperbyte>
You're welcome. :)
19:23
Where are you from, and how are you using LTSP, if I may ask? :)
19:26
<Bronze>
Hyperbyte: Boston area, I installed some ltsp LANs some years back. early 2000's
19:28
<Hyperbyte>
Wow, that must've been quite an early version.
19:28
<Bronze>
3 something, iirc
19:28
so much better today.
19:28
<Hyperbyte>
:)
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19:31
<Bronze>
3.X was very useful. Its just sovery nice to have LTSP integrated with various distro's.
19:31
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah, LTSP integration with Ubuntu rocks. :)
19:34
<Bronze>
"sovery" heh. "a person is 'sovery' when they are starting to sober up, just a little, after some heavy drinking, and begin to realize what a total nincompoop they were... " ;-)
19:36
<Hyperbyte>
Ithinkyourspacebarisbroken. :)
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19:47
<Bronze>
Hyperbyte: nah, its not a hardware issue, its a wetware issue. :)
19:53
<Hyperbyte>
Ah, a PEBKAC problem! ;-)
19:53
<Bronze>
ayup.
19:54
I've thought about removing that Keyb to computer control link, but I don't have anything to replace it with yet... ;-)
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