IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 25 July 2009   (all times are UTC)

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01:17
<Lns>
Just ran across http://blog.revolutionlinux.com/en/ - some awesome info for LTSP! (videos too)
01:18
stgraber, ^^ =) You guys do great work!
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04:45
<vagrantc>
otavio: bring on your LTSP running in 16MB of ram!
04:45
:)
04:46
<otavio>
vagrantc: come here and we need to test it ;-)
04:46
vagrantc: I'm at hl2
04:47* vagrantc passes through a wall
04:47* otavio gots scared
04:47
<otavio>
heh
04:47
;-)
04:47
<vagrantc>
otavio: should i bring my laptop?
04:47
otavio: actually, i'm going to a talk in 13 minutes ... maybe later?
04:47
<otavio>
vagrantc: yes; mine is slow as hell and I do not have an testing environent setuped
04:48* vagrantc wonders how fast otavio thinks vagrantc's laptop is
04:48* otavio at last do not needs to setup an testing env ;-)
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06:08
<vagrantc_>
otavio: think we can try before lunch?
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07:34
<ace_suares>
morning
07:38
<vagrantc_>
otavio: how about after lunch?
07:40
<sbalneav>
otavio: Hey! You get your embedded LTSP going?
07:40
win 3
07:40
<vagrantc_>
sbalneav: so the rumour goes. we haven't actually tested it yet
07:42
<ace_suares>
Laserjock ping
07:43
<sbalneav>
ace_suares: one channel over. LaserJock never hangs out here :)
07:43
<ace_suares>
oops
07:43
kk
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08:03
<GGD>
seen! warren
08:10
<vagrantc_>
GGD: put the ! first
08:11
<ogra_>
vagrantc_, so what are you guzs doing over there ?
08:12
*guys
08:12* ogra_ curses us kbds
08:12
<vagrantc_>
ogra_: building an LTSP chroot from some embedded distro
08:13
ogra_: possibly as a not-quite-LTSP5 variant for low-end stuff
08:13
<ogra_>
why not quite ltsp5 :)
08:13
you could just have a special mode
08:13
<vagrantc_>
well, most likely people won't be using these embedded distros as their host distro
08:13
<ogra_>
that pulls in specific packages
08:14
ah, i thought it was netbooting as well
08:14
oh, i misread
08:15
<vagrantc_>
well, LTSP5 basically is on fedora, build fedora, on debian build debian chroot ... etc. but this would be a chroot built from a distro that wouldn't be the host likely on an alien host distro
08:15
<ogra_>
yeah
08:15
i thought it was about size
08:15
<vagrantc_>
the goal is reduced memory footprint ...
08:15
<ogra_>
well
08:15
<vagrantc_>
not sure how it'll pan out.
08:16
<ogra_>
did you ever try to assembel a minimal system just around busybox with X ?
08:16
<vagrantc_>
i haven't tried anything ... i'm waiting to test what otavio worked on all night long
08:16
:)
08:16
<ogra_>
ah
08:17* ogra_ wonders when in ubuntu or debian the TERM variable setup broke
08:18
<vagrantc_>
somewhere along the way i started seeing wierd TERM=screen.linux junk ...
08:18
<ogra_>
well, mine is TERM=xterm by default
08:18
<vagrantc_>
haven't quite figured what triggers that. TERM=screen works just fine
08:18
<ogra_>
which makes things like whiptail --msgbox immediately exit in scripts
08:19
if i set TERM=linux it works fine but breaks special chars
08:20
i also noticed that minicom doesnt work in maximized windows anymore if i dont set TERM=linux
08:20
it satrts flashing like mad
08:21
vagrantc_, whiptail --infobox "hello" 10 20
08:21
vagrantc_, vs: TERM=linux whiptail --infobox "hello" 10 20
08:22
do you see a difference in debian with that ?
08:22
<vagrantc_>
ogra_: different colors
08:22
<ogra_>
for me the first one clears the screen immediately while the second one keeps the whiptail msg on screen
08:23
oh, right your default is screen ...
08:23
<vagrantc_>
with TERM=rxvt-unicode, it doesn't display at all
08:23
or TERM=xterm
08:23
<ogra_>
turn the first one into TERM=xterm whiptail --infobox "hello" 10 20
08:23
right
08:23
well, it flashes the whiptail msg shortly
08:24
<vagrantc_>
annoying
08:24
<ogra_>
yeah
08:24
and i dont know where to look for the bug actually
08:24
seems /etc/termcap is gnoe since a while
08:24* vagrantc_ is trying to dig up the magic numbers for binfmt_misc on x86_64
08:25
<ogra_>
google ;)
08:26* vagrantc_ has never really been proficient with search engines
08:26
<vagrantc_>
well, the important thing is arm works
08:27
<ogra_>
:)
08:27
<vagrantc_>
x86_64/amd64 is a pretty unusual case. powerpc/ppc would be nice to have ...
08:27
<ogra_>
did otavio bring arm hardware for you to test ?
08:27
<vagrantc_>
no, but i tested with qemu
08:27
<ogra_>
well, the intresting parts are the netboot setups :)
08:28
<vagrantc_>
mips* isn't supported by qemu yet, as far as i can tell... powerpc segfaults
08:28
ogra_: i think much more interesting is the bootstrapping the chroot cross-architecture :)
08:28
<ogra_>
i would like to have it autogenerate uboot or redboot configs you can dump in the flash or whatever bootdevice the SoC uses
08:29
my imx51 boards all boot from SD by default, the beagleboard can do that as well ..
08:29
<vagrantc_>
port gPXE to arm, and flash that :)
08:29
<ogra_>
wont work
08:30
each arm board has its own bootloader
08:30
you need a binary specifically built for the target SoC
08:30
<vagrantc_>
two-kernel monte (a.k.a. kexec)
08:30
<ogra_>
broken upstream
08:30
<vagrantc_>
yeah
08:30* ogra_ would love to kexec
08:31
<vagrantc_>
surely, it's possible to write something you could flash that has more genuine network boot capabilities
08:31
the question is who will, and when
08:31
<ogra_>
i'd actually use it as default ... i even have an initramfs menu written already that scans possible bootdevices
08:32* vagrantc_ wonders if the arm thin clients out there rely on flash booting
08:32
<ogra_>
if kexecd would work, i could display a grub like menu on the framebuffer
08:32
*kexec
08:32
likely flash booting with bootp
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08:32
<ogra_>
redboot uses bootp by default and http to transfer kernel and initramfs (can use tftp though)
08:33
<sbalneav>
I can't think of any major reason why a *jaunty* chroot wouldn't work on a *hardy* server, can either of you?
08:33
<ogra_>
not really
08:33
<vagrantc_>
ogra_: do you know the difference between qemu-arm and qemu-armeb ?
08:33
<ogra_>
sbalneav, why do you ask? do you see issues ?
08:34
qemu-arm uses the default endianess of the distro
08:34
inj former debian relesews that actually was eb
08:34
<sbalneav>
Got a new mobo at work for our thin clients. it's got a r8169 network chip. hangs in the initramfs on hardy, works perfectly at home on jaunty.
08:34* ogra_ curses that kbd once more
08:34
<sbalneav>
bug in the 8169 driver, I'm thinking
08:35
<ogra_>
yeah
08:35
tried the linux-backports-modules package ?
08:35
specifically NIC fixes come in that
08:36
though most of the time its wlan fixes that are backported
08:36
<sbalneav>
ah, ok, I could give that a try too.
08:36
I'm off on hollidays for the next couple of weeks, so I'll be sporadicly in here.
08:36
<ogra_>
i think you need hardy-updates enabled for it
08:36
<sbalneav>
I'll give it a shot when I come back
08:41
<otavio>
sbalneav: yes :-)
08:43
<GGD>
!seen warren
08:43
<ltspbot>
GGD: warren was last seen in #ltsp 3 weeks, 2 days, 16 hours, 8 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <warren> g
08:47
<sbalneav>
otavio: COOL
08:48
So, smaller (X&&Kernel&&Libs) helped, eh?
08:52
<otavio>
sbalneav: well; not yet working
08:54
sbalneav: but for now, 16mb ;-)
08:56
<sbalneav>
Awesomeissitude.
08:56
Even if it doubled to 32, that'd still be great.
08:57
Where do you figger the biggest savings is coming from? Kernel? libc?
08:57
I.e., what's gotten "big" in Linux?
08:57
<ogra_>
everything ?
08:58
libc grew a lot, kernel grew massively
08:59
then you need to take into account that we put all possible NIC modules in the initramfs, initramfs carries a copy of glibc ...
08:59
we have the varios rootfs methods in initramfs (nfs, nbd images etc)
09:00
<sbalneav>
Yeah. With functionality comes size.
09:01
<ogra_>
kernel and initramfs in ubuntu require at least 24M to properly boot, even if thats smaller in debian it will still be above 16M
09:01
<sbalneav>
From what otavio was talking to us about in Brazil, I think he's using openembedded.
09:01
<ogra_>
though i suspect otavio will run into massive probs with a recent xorg ... unless thats recompiled and stripped massively
09:03
<otavio>
ogra_: compiling from scratch ;-)
09:03
<ogra_>
running on 16M is a challenged, even for openembedded
09:03
<otavio>
ogra_: let's see how it works
09:03
<ogra_>
*challenge
09:03
<otavio>
ogra_: no; the chroot has 16mb for now
09:03
<ogra_>
yeah, crossing my fingers for you :)
09:03
<otavio>
ogra_: it will get bigger
09:04
ogra_: but maybe 30mb is good target
09:04* ogra_ has booted ubuntu clients in 32M
09:04
<ogra_>
but we cheat and use compcache :)
09:08* ogra_ plays with debconf-apt-progress today
09:09
<ogra_>
sadly it needs an apt fd ... so doesnt help with debootstrap
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11:31
<brendan`>
has anyone ever had any issues with LTSP freezing on mouse movement? i was thinking my issue was due to vmware-server-console, but i'm realizing now that it only happens on mouse movement going the user moves over a window that takes focus or loses focus
11:32
has anyone ever experienced that?
11:32
<ace_suares>
not me. oh well, maybe 4 yrs ago but not lately
11:32
<brendan`>
hah, i feel like this bug is taking me back years
11:33
it's driving me and my users crazy
11:33
it started happening after I upgraded to 8.10 amd64
11:33
everything was fine for a year before that :(
11:34
<ace_suares>
too bad... i am just editing the wiki, so wait for ogra or sbalneav or so,,,, sorryy
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14:46
<epsas>
win 13
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17:10
<stgraber>
sbalneav: ping
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<johnny>
knipwim, i sent him the mail
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20:36
<TheProf>
Hello. I hope everyone is doing well. I have a question about the K12Linux installation based on Fedora 10. I just received a couple of older computers donated to the system. Several boot fine but one of them boots successfully except shows no text.
20:36
That is to say I get the blue screen with a white textbox for the login but no text anywhere.
20:37
I don't think it is a resolution issue as everything is clear. There's just no words or logos
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