IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 11 January 2010   (all times are UTC)

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02:11
<Appiah>
"Please note that this email address is no longer in use."
02:11
ltsp-discuss :D
02:15
<alkisg>
Yeah, annoying... I wonder how long it will take for his email to be removed from the list :(
02:15
!ltsp-source
02:15
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "ltsp-source" :: at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/files
02:18
<alkisg>
In two Lucid chroots, I'm getting $SERVER="10.160.31.10 10.160.31.10" so ldm segfaults. I'm debugging it, but if anyone has seen it before, hints welcome... :)
02:20
<Appiah>
oooo lucid
02:21
<vagrantc>
LDM_SERVER should accept two values
02:22
<alkisg>
vagrantc: configure_resolver() from ltsp-init-common creates this etc/hosts:
02:22
10.160.31.10
02:22
10.160.31.10
02:22
-f server
02:22
And ldm segfaults when I enter the username/password
02:22
<vagrantc>
ugh
02:22
<alkisg>
(it segfaults even if I fix the /etc/hosts)
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02:28
<alkisg>
Hmm ltsp_config is to blame...
02:29
<vagrantc>
how's that?
02:31
<alkisg>
vagrantc: pgrep -f -l /dev/nbd0 returns 2 matches:
02:32
230 nbd-client 10.160.31.10 2000 /dev/nbd0
02:32
232 nbd-client 10.160.31.10 2000 /dev/nbd0
02:32
<vagrantc>
eeyk.
02:32
<alkisg>
So a quick hack would be to do "head -n 1" there, but I'll look deeper
02:33
<vagrantc>
we really need to be able to talk to nbd-client directly or something...
02:33
nbd-client /dev/nbd0 -query-server or some such
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02:33
<alkisg>
Good night:)
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02:49
<Appiah>
holy crap
02:49
a bunch of new messages on ltsp-discuss just like that
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03:26
<Roel___>
hi, I'm having problems when my ltsp-client is unable to start hal
03:26
I've checked by manually starting... (nodaemon) and it complains about : unable to open fdi cache... any idea?
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03:58
<Roel_>
!docs
03:58
<ltspbot>
Roel_: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
04:01
<Roel_>
!/etc/exports
04:01
<ltspbot>
Roel_: Error: "/etc/exports" is not a valid command.
04:01
<Roel_>
!nfs
04:01
<ltspbot>
Roel_: "nfs" :: the protocol that serves the files needed by LTSP. You can find info at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/NFS
04:01
<Roel_>
!commands
04:01
<ltspbot>
Roel_: !j, add, alert, announce, any, apropos, ban add, ban list, ban remove, cache, calc, capabilities, capability add, capability list, capability remove, capability set, capability setdefault, capability unset, change, changename, channel, channels, clear, cmd, commands, config, cpu, cycle, default, defaultcapability, defaultplugin, dehalfop, deop, devoice, disable, dist, dns, dump, enable, (2 more messages)
04:01
<Roel_>
!
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04:19
<Roel_>
if I have booted until LDM... what is the default WM it uses?
04:19
XDM?
04:20
after login I get the watch-cursor and some dull stuff
04:20
<alkisg>
Try with XSERVER=vesa in lts.conf or by turning off compiz for that user
04:21
Problem: while trying to boot an atom-based netbook as a thin client, and around the time I see "Starting LTSP client", I'm hearing an extremely loud sound (beeeeeep) and after 10 seconds the netbook turns off itself (I think I can also smell something so I'm not going to try it for more than 1 sec again :)).
04:21
It boots fine with the same Ubuntu versions (Karmic/Lucid) as a workstation, though... any ideas?
04:22
<Roel_>
hmmm... but what is it supposed to startup after login at LDM?
04:23
<alkisg>
Roel_: the xsession... if you use gnome, the WM will be either compiz or metacity, afaik...
04:23
<Roel_>
I didn't really specify anything.. so maybe I should install fluxbox or something
04:24
<alkisg>
Well if it's a compiz problem, you can just turn it off
04:24
<Roel_>
I have the feeling the gentoo-install just install xdm...
04:24
<alkisg>
Is that gentoo?
04:24
Do you have a DE installed on the server?
04:25
<Roel_>
I didn't install anything
04:25
so I guess not
04:26
let me check that out
04:26
<alkisg>
Well, the session runs on the server, so you need a desktop environment there
04:30
<Roel_>
there was nothing installed, so let me 'quickly' emerge some stuff
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04:39
<Roel_>
what are the options for LDM_LANGUAGE ...
04:39
?
04:40
I can't seem to figure out what syntax to use
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04:47
<dchristiaan>
Hi J ..
04:47
are u there ? :)
04:47
need some help :(
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04:51
<alkisg>
!lts.conf
04:51
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
04:51
<alkisg>
Roel_: ^^ "The standard language codes for the LANG environment variable are used. "
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05:36
<Roel_>
thx, I indeed didn't have a DE installed, after install all worked great, also the LANG var I found out and it's working fantastic
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05:58
<Roel_>
what is the scripts that sets up xorg.conf?
06:00
never mind, found it
06:00
It's just not working...
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06:05
<Roel_>
anyone knows why touchscreen gets completely ignored in ltsp?
06:05
<Appiah>
is the touchscreen xorg driver installed?
06:05
in the chroot
06:06
<Roel_>
yes
06:06
<Appiah>
see anything in xorg.#.log ?
06:09
hey is X_CONFIGURE=True still needed in lts.conf?
06:09
if you set X_MODE and such
06:10
<Roel_>
the log is not even speaking of a touchscreen
06:11
<Appiah>
does the touchscreen work on a "normal" ubuntu install? (assuming you run ltsp on ubuntu)
06:12
<Roel_>
yeah, I had it working before on ltsp 4.2
06:13
And I've tried on the client to access the touchscreen using touchcal, and it did work
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06:33
<cyberorg>
Appiah, no X_CONFIGURE is not required it is true automatically if you specify any X settings
06:34
<Appiah>
okey
06:38
<alkisg>
Yeah it was *only* needed in Ubuntu hardy...
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06:56
<knipwim>
Roel_: at work now
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07:05
<garymc>
Hi , again i need help. I have asked before and took notes, but it doesnt seem to be working now i follow them 2 months later. Iam trying to creat launchers that appear on every users screen every time they log in. here is my paste bin of instructions i kept for myself http://pastebin.ca/1746836 can anyone tell me where im going wrong here?
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07:17
<cyberorg>
garymc, !/bin/sh should be #!/bin/sh
07:21
<garymc>
ahhh cool ok
07:22
ill give it a try
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07:27
<garymc>
Hey had to log out to see if it worked. It didnt
07:27
:(
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07:49
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Good morning all!
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07:53
<garymc>
hi
07:53
not many talking
07:53
Maybe you could help me out CAN-o-SPAM ?
07:54
Hi , again i need help. I have asked before and took notes, but it doesnt seem to be working now i follow them 2 months later. Iam trying to creat launchers that appear on every users screen every time they log in. here is my paste bin of instructions i kept for myself http://pastebin.ca/1746836 can anyone tell me where im going wrong here?
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07:54
<CAN-o-SPAM>
garymc: i'm not sure i know the answer to your question. maybe someone will be around in an hour or two to help you ... check back
07:57
<alkisg>
garymc: that's not specific to ltsp, so you can ask in you distro's channel for that if you want, e.g. in #ubuntu
07:57
<garymc>
yeah i have asked, no reply
07:57
but i got told how to do it in here last time. and it did work eventually, not sure who it was who helped me out though :(
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08:33
<garymc>
Anyone know how I chown a folder and all subdirectiores in the terminal. I just tried "sudo chown gary /var/www/html
08:34
but all subdirectories are still locked
08:36
<bieb>
garymc: you need a -r
08:36
chown -r
08:36
recursive
08:47
<sbalneav>
garymc: you also don't have the shell line right
08:47
should be #!/bin/sh
08:47
not !/bin/sh
08:47
<CAN-o-SPAM>
!s
08:47
<ltspbot>
CAN-o-SPAM: "s" :: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:47
<sbalneav>
alkisg: last night I got a successful pam auth conversation going with libpam_sshauth
08:48
Hey CAN-o-SPAM
08:48
<alkisg>
too.... much... cool... new... stuff... to... test... can't... get.... enough... sleep.... gargh...!
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08:49
<CAN-o-SPAM>
sbalneav: hows everything going?
08:51
<sbalneav>
Busy.
08:51
But, making headway.
08:51
alkisg: It's not anywhere near to the point of being able to auth a login.
08:51
BUT
08:52
<CAN-o-SPAM>
sbalneav: good to hear, must be cold up there ... we are getting quite a bit of the white stuff down here!
08:52
<alkisg>
Well if you got it to log you in with some const credentials, that's a good start :)
08:54
<CAN-o-SPAM>
sbalneav: i want to introduce you to alincoln ... he's a new employee for DisklessWorkstations.com, and his goal is to quickly become a new resource to our community :)
08:54
<alincoln>
sbalneav: howdy
08:55
<sbalneav>
alincoln: Howdy Abe.
08:55
<alincoln>
hah
08:55
it's Adam, but I accept many monikers. :)
08:55
<CAN-o-SPAM>
haha
08:59
<sbalneav>
I was gonna say, "My American Cousin" wasn't that good of a play. I'd reccommend skipping it. :)
09:00
alincoln: Welcome aboard
09:04
<garymc>
Ahh bieb i think it was you who helped me out with the launcher stuff a while back?
09:06
<sbalneav>
garymc: You see my comment to you?
09:06
Your shell script has a bug.
09:07
<garymc>
im really stuck at the moment and the instructions i created back then dont seem to be working. I know im doing something wrong but not sure what. http://pastebin.ca/1746965
09:07
<alincoln>
sbalneav: thanks!
09:07
<garymc>
sbalneav yes i changed what you said but it didnt fix it
09:08
<bieb>
garymc: yep I helped some
09:08
<sbalneav>
Can you pastebin what's in that shell script as of now?
09:08
<etyack>
sbalneav: happy New Year!
09:09
<sbalneav>
etyack: And to you and yours!
09:09
<garymc>
sbalneav : yes it is the link above
09:11
<sbalneav>
garymc: do the following and pastebin the results.
09:11
ls -l /etc/xdg/autostart
09:11
ls -l /usr/local/bin/CopyToDesktop
09:11
cat /usr/local/bin/CopyToDesktop
09:12
ls -al /usr/local/share/launchers
09:13
<garymc>
ok
09:13
<alkisg>
garymc: are you sure that launcher is *all* you want? E.g. if you want more start, you might be better off using sabayon that scripts.
09:13
*stuff, not start
09:13
*than, not that. Damn keyboard :)
09:13
<garymc>
not sure, im still a newb. It worked great last time but now
09:14
<alkisg>
Are you going to need custom menus, or wallpapers, or custom settings, or locked settings etc?
09:15
http://live.gnome.org/Sabayon
09:16
<garymc>
sbalneav : http://pastebin.ca/1746981 a link to the results of those commands
09:17
<alkisg>
And here's an introduction to sabayon with screenshots: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/sabayon
09:17
<garymc>
alkisg : I may be needing sabayon in the future, im gonna take a look at the link you provided
09:17
<alkisg>
Because sabayon can also help you with the launchers
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09:17
<alkisg>
And also allow you to specify different launchers per group
09:18
(afaik, right sbalneav?)
09:19
<sbalneav>
alkisg: just FYI, in case you're going to poke around, pam_sshauth uses libssh v0.4, do if you want to play with it in karmic, you'll either have to backport the lucid libssh packages, or use lucid to test
09:19
<garymc>
is it just a program i install onto my current release of ubuntu
09:20
<sbalneav>
alkisg: I've been meaning to write an updated tutorial.
09:20
I should get on that.
09:20
garymc: you didn't do the chmod +x /usr/local/bin/CopyToDesktop
09:21
<garymc>
did i not?
09:21
<sbalneav>
ugh
09:21
you did something elese too
09:21
ok
09:21
<garymc>
:(
09:21
<sbalneav>
yikes, what a mess
09:22
ok
09:22
do this
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09:22
<sbalneav>
sudo mv /usr/local/bin/CopyToDesktop /usr/local/bin/foo
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09:22
<sbalneav>
sudo mv /usr/local/bin/foo/CopyToDesktop /usr/local/bin/CopyToDesktop
09:23
sudo chmod +x /usr/local/bin/CopyToDesktop
09:23
sudo rm -rf /usr/local/bin/foo
09:23
<garymc>
done all them :)
09:23
what now?
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09:24
<sbalneav>
garymc: This is why people like me ask you to paste results of commands. Because what you DID was clearly NOT what your instructions said to do. :)
09:25
ls -l /usr/local/bin
09:25
<garymc>
I did follow those instrcutions to the word..... i think
09:25
<sbalneav>
pastebin the results
09:25
"I think"
09:25
<garymc>
well i have been know to make mistakes ;S
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09:25* ogra ponders to take an hour to make a script out of that
09:26
<ogra>
given that garymc is here for the third or fourth time with the same prob :)
09:26
<sbalneav>
I think we're getting it for him
09:26
<garymc>
maybe it was ogra who helped me
09:26
<sbalneav>
garymc: ls -l /usr/local/bin
09:26
and while you're at it:
09:26
<garymc>
http://pastebin.ca/1747004
09:26
<ogra>
garymc, it was me, gadi and someone else the last time
09:26
<sbalneav>
cat /etc/xdg/autostart/CopyToDesktop.desktop
09:26
<garymc>
ok cool.
09:28
update: sbalneav : http://pastebin.ca/1747006
09:28
ogra: I did make notes last time, but couldnt get it to work today
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09:29
<sbalneav>
garymc: ok, try it now
09:29* ogra wonders about that shebang line
09:29
<alkisg>
Here's the appropriate .desktop file: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/m356a1538
09:29
No script needed, the cp command is inside the .desktop file
09:29
You put that in /etc/xdg/autostart...
09:30
<garymc>
ok....?
09:30
<ogra>
alkisg, stop adding confusion
09:30* alkisg keeps quiet :)
09:30
<garymc>
I have to log off to test, be right back
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09:33
<garymc>
Thanks guys it all works now
09:33
but i could of done with changing my file so it was better instructed
09:33
incase i need again :(
09:34
sbalneav : Thankls for your help. very much appreciated
09:35
<litlebuda>
hi all , can anyone please tell me what could be causing my clients not being able to login when the server as no conection to the internet ?
09:35
<ogra>
alkisg, http://paste.ubuntu.com/355056/ ;)
09:36
<alkisg>
ogra: I haven't tested if wildcards inside .desktop files actually work, though... :D maybe sh -c 'cp. ....' is needed instead
09:36
<ogra>
or better http://paste.ubuntu.com/355057/
09:36
<sbalneav>
garymc: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/m601935f
09:36
<garymc>
sbalneav : Thank you so much :)
09:37
<ogra>
alkisg, well, if someone wants to try it we could put it as enable_copy_to_desktop.sh somewhere and people would just download it, make it executable and run it under sudo ;)
09:37
easier than wlaking them through that whole process each and every time
09:37
<alkisg>
ogra: yeah wildcards don't work, so: Exec=sh -c "/bin/cp /tmp/*.desktop ~/Desktop"
09:37
erm, with the proper path instead of /tmp
09:38
<ogra>
well, feel free to make something out of it :)
09:38
so garymc doesnt need to ask again
09:38
<alkisg>
Nah... sabayon is the way to go for this kind of stuff :)
09:38
...so I bet we'll have sabayon questions in a while :)
09:38
<sbalneav>
Like I say, time for an updated tutorial :)
09:39
seth's blog post is... a little outdated :)
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09:59
<alkisg>
Has anyone else had problems with the syslinux version provided by Ubuntu? I'm able to boot some clients with the sid pxelinux.0 version, but not with the old Ubuntu version...
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10:25* alkisg hugs highvoltage for his fat client plugin :)
10:32
<highvoltage>
alkisg: don't forget stgraber as well :)
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11:31* Gadi loves how we now have thin clients+localapps and fat clients+remoteapps :)
11:31* vagrantc can't help but hear "tainted love" playing in the background...
11:32
<ogra>
heh
11:32
<vagrantc>
it's about time someone writes ltsp-cloudapps
11:32
<ogra>
lol
11:32
<vagrantc>
ltsp-whereeveridontreallycareapps
11:34* Gadi watches everyone but vagrantc take a giant step back
11:34
<Gadi>
:)
11:34
<vagrantc>
ltsp-appsgonewild
11:35
<sbalneav>
cool
11:35
libpam_sshauth now supports publickey auth.
11:36* vagrantc cheers sbalneav on!
11:36
<Gadi>
go, sbalneav, go!
11:36
<sbalneav>
anyone who's interested can follow the bouncing ball so far
11:37
lp:~sbalneav/ltsp/libpam-sshauth
11:37
I should update the spec.
11:37
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: it's a branch of ltsp-trunk ?
11:40* vagrantc answered own question
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11:44
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: my only fear tying it to libssh is if libssh changes compatibility very often...
11:46
<sbalneav>
well, there's only two ssh libs
11:46
libssh
11:47
and libssh2 (modified bsd auth)
11:47
libssh2 doesn't properly handle the conversation the way we need it to in order to handle expiry's
11:48
kde depends on libssh, so I'm not too too worried.
11:48
<vagrantc>
what about libssh-4 ?
11:48
or is that just version 4 of libssh ?
11:51
appears to be the latter.
11:52
<sbalneav>
right.
11:53
One thing that would really help is to fix the packaging for libssh so that it creates a proper pkg-check file.
11:54
vagrantc: is that something that upstream should include? Or is it done at the "packaging" level by Debian/Ubuntu? If so, I could create the file, would you be able to get it into debian?
11:54
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: this is where my skills are a little weak
11:54
<sbalneav>
that way, we could have the configure.ac check for a version of the lib.
11:54
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: you know about pkg-check stuff?
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11:55
<sbalneav>
I know how to USE pkg-check stuff. I don't know if it's an "upstream" construct or a packaging construct,
11:55
<MRH2>
hi anyone recall if hplip is in 4.2?
11:55
<sbalneav>
MRH2: no it's not.
11:55
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: and neither do i
11:56
<ogra>
sbalneav, do you see a pkg-check file if you build the package ?
11:56
<MRH2>
thanks
11:56
<ogra>
sbalneav, creation is an upstream thing, installing it is a packaging thing
11:56
<sbalneav>
ogra: no, I don't think they have one.
11:57
<ogra>
right, then its an upstream miss
11:57
<sbalneav>
Great, I'll contact them, give them the magic goo to create it.
11:57
They seem pretty responsive to patches, etc.
11:57
it won't help us "right now", but down the road will make things easier.
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12:22
<sbalneav>
ok, updated the spec, and wiki page
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14:05
<knipwim>
johnny: could you check http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wimmuskee/ltsp/ltsp-gentoo-dev/revision/1490 ?
14:06
pulseaudio pulls udev[extras]
14:06
<johnny>
you mean it requires udev with extras enabled?
14:06
<knipwim>
yes
14:07
<johnny>
ok.. sounds good
14:08
<knipwim>
another example of needing a profile
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14:42
<haasd>
I've got an install in Ubuntu hardy where the clients mouse freezes up. The keyboard still responds just fine. Unplugging and replugging the mouse doesn't do anything and the client has to be rebooted. Any ideas on how to troubleshoot further?
14:42
<Gadi>
USB mouse?
14:42
<alkisg>
haasd: some times `sudo ltsp-update-kernels` helps, give it a try...
14:42
Ah, Gadi's here, ignore me :)
14:43
<Gadi>
I was going to say the same
14:43
<haasd>
yes- a USB mouse
14:43
<Gadi>
:)
14:43
I mean
14:43
ignore me
14:43
hehe
14:43
haasd: what type of thin client hardware?
14:44* Gadi once had an issue like that with a via-based mobo with trident video card
14:44
<haasd>
hp compaq t5000
14:45
<Gadi>
haasd: does a PS/2 mouse or keyboard continue to work?
14:45
<haasd>
I'm not sure. I'll send a couple out and have them try them. Thanks for the idea
14:46
<Gadi>
np - it was an issue I could never quite resolve
14:46
but tracked it down to the whole USB hub craashing
14:46
so, it was definitely kernel related
14:46
<haasd>
its just odd that its the mouse only- the keyboard still continues to work no problem
14:46
<Gadi>
but, PS/2 continued to work
14:46
<alkisg>
(btw, I have a problem too:) while trying to boot an atom-based netbook as a thin client, and around the time I see "Starting LTSP client", I'm hearing a continuous, extremely loud sound (beeeeeep) and after 10 seconds the netbook turns off itself (I think I can also smell something so I'm not going to try it for more than 1 sec again :)). Help?
14:46
<Gadi>
is the keyboard ps/2?
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14:47
<johnny>
alkisg, it's broke.. get a new one
14:47
<Gadi>
alkisg: lower the volume
14:47
audio volume
14:47
<johnny>
the smell i mean
14:47
Gadi, lowering the volume won't fix the smell
14:47
<Gadi>
johnny: not necessarily
14:47
the smell may not be permanent damage
14:47
<alkisg>
It works fine with Karmic/Lucid installed locally, though :)
14:47
<Gadi>
if you turned it off in time
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14:48
<Gadi>
alkisg: they have lower defaults
14:48
<johnny>
sure.. but why would loud volume cause it to go crazy like that..
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14:48
<Gadi>
audio chips usually have caps, solenoids, and lots of metal around
14:48
cheap devices that overdrive the current
14:48
can cause these devices to resonate
14:49
and the feedback gets amplified
14:49
<alkisg>
Gadi, so should I try lowering the volume in lts.conf?
14:49
<Gadi>
yeah
14:49* alkisg tries..
14:49
<Gadi>
try 50 precent
14:49
<johnny>
that's too cheap for me to want to trust to do anything..
14:49
<Gadi>
if it squeals, cut the power right away
14:51
<alkisg>
!lts.conf
14:51
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
14:52
<johnny>
why are we promoting that one.. isn't there a link to lts.conf settings on the new docs site?
14:52* alkisg has tried previously with sound=off, to no avail...
14:52
<johnny>
shouldn't !lts.conf link to that
14:52
not some ubuntu.com site
14:52
<alkisg>
johnny: if you find it, be my guest :)
14:52
<johnny>
ask sbalneav
14:52
<alkisg>
Sorry for linking there, but I couldn't find it in the sf site
14:53
<Gadi>
alkisg: adjust the VOLUME
14:53
<alkisg>
Just that one? I was trying all of them :D OK
14:53
VOLUME=50
14:54
<Gadi>
hehe
14:54
VOLUME should work for all, I believe
14:54
<johnny>
why shouldn't SOUND=N ?
14:54
<Gadi>
or maybe VOLUME and PCM_VOLUME
14:54
SOUND=N should work, too - I think
14:54
I have to look at the code
14:55
<alkisg>
Even if the sound was loud though, I don't think there was supposed to be some sound playing at that ponit
14:55
ponit
14:55
point (gah)
14:55
It was before ldm started, at "starting ltsp client..."
14:56
<Gadi>
Im not sure you need a sound playing
14:56
I think its with simply adjust the volume up
14:56
as it causes the chip to source more current
14:56
<vagrantc>
alkisg: often times if it has a built-in mic, it picks up noise from the disk or something and gets into a feedback loop
14:57
<Gadi>
that, too
14:57
<vagrantc>
one of my test laptops has problems
14:57
<alkisg>
vagrantc: *yes* you're probably right
14:57
The sound was exactly like that (I don't know the word in english)
14:57
<vagrantc>
feedback? noise?
14:57
<alkisg>
feedback, probably...
14:58
"microphonism" in Greek :-/
14:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you greeks get all the ancient roots of western languages
14:59
<alkisg>
Yeah we were 1.000 years ahead.. too bad we stayed there, and now we're 1.000 years back :P
15:00
(damn pxelinux not cooperating :()
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15:03
<alkisg>
Success!!! Thanks guys, VOLUME=10 and MIC_VOLUME=10 did it.
15:05
OK, htop reports that the fat client ram usage at ldm = 51MB, let's see what's the difference with the thin chroot...
15:11
<dro>
alkisg: another helpful one is: HEADPHONE_VOLUME=100
15:12
<alkisg>
Thanks dro, I think the mic was the main problem
15:12
<dro>
alkisg: cool
15:12
was it doing the loud squeal?
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15:13
<alkisg>
It was so loud that it turned off by itself, and it even smelled a little like burned...
15:13
<dro>
i have several laptops that work fine for days/weeks and then out of no where would squeal like a pig extremly loud
15:13
wow.....
15:13
yea sounds like it was sound interference
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15:19
<alkisg>
Htop reports ram usage for thin client at ldm = 44 Mb. Very little difference, maybe it's OK for 128 MB RAM clients but maybe 64 MB RAM clients will have problems with only one (fat) chroot...
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15:29
<johnny>
alkisg, you have yet to start anything with it obviously :)
15:29
like firefox..
15:30
<alkisg>
Well, firefox works fine in my 64mb thin clients
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15:33
<vagrantc>
i've noticed marked improvements to firefox/iceweasel and openoffice compared to just a couple years ago.
15:34
at least as far as ram consumption
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15:36
<johnny>
it sitll won't start locally on one of my clients..
15:36
i thought it was the ram.. but pehraps not
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15:37
<alkisg>
With 6 tabs open in firefox, htop reports 2 more MB of ram usage
15:37
So not a big deal, when *not* ran locally...
15:39* Gadi expects the tab is not much memory - its whats inside the tab that counts
15:41
<alkisg>
I used "regular" pages, e.g. 5-10 screens high with images etc. I don't have flash installed yet, but I don't think it'll make much of a difference...
15:41
The local memory is only used for X bitmap caching, right?
15:41
<johnny>
i thought you were talking about local apps.. ..
15:41
<alkisg>
(11:37:47 μμ) alkisg: So not a big deal, when *not* ran locally...
15:42
I'm comparing regular thin clients with the new fat client script
15:43
Because supposedly one fat client chroot would be enough for both thin & fat clients
15:43
And that seems to be true, with the exception of the 64mb ram clients...
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16:30
<dmarkey>
sbalneav: you wont be integrating SPICE into LTSP then? :)
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16:37
<dmarkey>
did anyone hear about this kernel memory dedup feature
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16:38
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: so ... with your libpam-ssh stuff ... would you be able to chain authentications?
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16:40
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i.e. logging into one server, and it authenticates against another....
16:41
sbalneav: this is gonna rock.
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18:11
<sbalneav>
dmarkey: I won't, no.
18:11
Doesn't mean someone else won't, but I personally don't see the point.
18:14
<dmarkey>
It possibly might be a better fit starting a new project from scratch with that design
18:15
<sbalneav>
Why would you start a new project?
18:15
why not *just use spice*?
18:15
That's my point.
18:15
They've developed a solution, probably a good one.
18:15
<dmarkey>
well, its only a protocol, you'd have to build a management stack, broker, etc
18:16
<sbalneav>
Far as I know, they have that already.
18:16
<dmarkey>
if they have, its need released
18:16
not*
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18:16
<sbalneav>
but rather than a potential developer work on "integrating" it into LTSP, I'd rather see them work on the spice project itself.
18:17
that way, you've actually got a marketplace
18:17
You can choose ltsp
18:17
or spice
18:17
and if one ends up being "better" (for some value of better) then it can "win" (for some value of "win")
18:18
<dmarkey>
its not about winning or losing
18:18
<sbalneav>
Well, yeah
18:18
<dmarkey>
they'll fulfill slightly different use cases
18:18
<sbalneav>
Right. But we shouldn't try to fulfill all use cases.
18:19
I'd rather we do what we do, and if it's useful to someone, great.
18:19
<dmarkey>
we as in LTSP
18:19
?
18:19
<sbalneav>
yeah
18:20
But like I say, I can't dictate what anyone else does.
18:21
I can only control what I do.
18:21
<dmarkey>
would integrating some kind of a spice client into LTSP be unreasonable?
18:22
<sbalneav>
I would say so, yes
18:22
spice is fundamentally different enough to move away from the core of what we try to do
18:22
deliver a Linux desktop using standardized X protocols
18:22
<dmarkey>
why do you have rdesktop support
18:22
<sbalneav>
I dont
18:23
and personally, I don't agree with it.
18:23
But seeing as how I don't have to maintain it, it doesn't bother me.
18:23
<stgraber>
if one really needs a spice client, all he should do is write a new screen.d script for it, that's the easiest way to have it running, though it's a technology that we can't easily integrate in LDM and so requires more maintenance work
18:24
<sbalneav>
I personally don't like the fact that the hard work I put in is being used to "cheat" microsoft out of buying CAL's
18:24
which, if rdesktop didn't exist, is what you'd have to do.
18:24
<stgraber>
that's less the case with RDP as the freerdp guys are working on a clean library that I perfectly see as being used by LDM in the near future
18:24
<sbalneav>
right
18:24
it would be a fundamental change.
18:25
But I speak only for myself.
18:25
<dmarkey>
i dont see any problems with the rdesktop implementation in LTSP as it is
18:25
<stgraber>
sbalneav: that's not exactly right, all my Windows customers (500-600 desktops I believe) running LTSP paid for their CALs, what they don't pay for is a Windows license for their computer
18:25
<sbalneav>
Sorry, cal's isn't the right term
18:25
the bit that provides the remote access, i.e. the microsoft equiv to rdesktop
18:26
Microsoft sells that.
18:26
<stgraber>
mstsc is "free" and the specifications for RDP are open
18:26
(ok, it wasn't the case when rdesktop was first developped, but it's now)
18:26
<sbalneav>
It's not free if you're in a corporate environment.
18:26
it's still charged for, AFAIK
18:27
<dmarkey>
only charge is CALS on the terminal server
18:27
<stgraber>
what they charge you for is Windows embeded or similar, that's the minimal Windows you boot that then starts the RDP client
18:27
mstsc is included on all versions of Windows since Windows 2000 and is "free" (as in, included in Windows)
18:27
<sbalneav>
right, which is what you'd have to use if ltsp+rdesktop didn't exist.
18:28
But like I say, since I don't have it as a use case, I don't worry about it.
18:28
<dmarkey>
you're not breaking any rules by using rdesktop instead of mstsc
18:28
<sbalneav>
Didn't say we were.
18:28
<stgraber>
yep, and I have no problem with people using LTSP+rdesktop to replace a Windows embeded, it's legal and makes the migration path to Linux thin clients a lot easier
18:29
<sbalneav>
I don't agree, but that's just me.
18:29
My point is: ltsp STARTED as a way to provide access to Linux desktops.
18:29
that's what attracted me to it.
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18:30
<sbalneav>
the more "diluted" that gets, the less I like it.
18:30
<stgraber>
Currently, one of the most frequent migration path we're using here is: Windows desktop => Windows desktop + Windows terminal server => LTSP + Windows terminal server (and free softwares on Windows) => LTSP + Linux (same free softwares)
18:30
that's one of the smoothest way we found to migrate > 500 users without failling ;)
18:30
<dmarkey>
a 100 line rdesktop/screen.d script is hardly diluting the project
18:31
<sbalneav>
We were talking about integrating spice
18:31
rdesktop's been done for quite some time.
18:32
I would argue that integrating spice would be a huge dilution.
18:32
<dmarkey>
its just another 100 line screen.d script
18:32
<sbalneav>
Oh?
18:33
Really?
18:33
Cite your sources.
18:34
<dmarkey>
Potentially, 100 line.
18:34
:)
18:34
<sbalneav>
Quite frankly, and don't take this the wrong way, but you haven't got a clue HOW many lines it would be.
18:35
Maybe this is something that needs to be voted on.
18:35
<dmarkey>
well it would depend on the implementation of the management/brokering design, with probably wouldnt be in LTSP's scope
18:36
which*
18:36
And frankly, you dont either
18:36
<sbalneav>
Quit waving your arms. Deal in facts.
18:36
No I don't
18:36
And what I'm saying is, I don't think it's in our scope, either.
18:37
Maybe this needs to be voted on.
18:37
<dmarkey>
by whom
18:37
<sbalneav>
I've always operated under the idea that LTSP's a good way to get traditional thin client X terminals on lower end hardware.
18:37
By the developers.
18:38
<johnny>
there's always the possibility of a seperate package that includes such scripts that doesn't need voting on of any kind
18:38
<sbalneav>
If we're going to be "everything to everybody", then we need to have that codified somehow.
18:38
<dmarkey>
ha, what will the topic of the vote be?
18:38
<sbalneav>
"What is LTSP supposed to be?"
18:39
Anywho, I've got to toddle off to my son's lesson.
18:39
I'll be back on later tonight.
18:39
cya all
18:40* dmarkey sigh
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22:48
<sbalneav>
Evening all
22:48
dmarkey: Sigh?
22:51
<cyberorg>
moin sbalneav
22:52
<sbalneav>
hey hey cyberorg
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22:58
<cyberorg>
spice is heating up the room eh?
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23:01* sbalneav shrugs
23:01
<sbalneav>
I'm perfectly clear
23:02
I'm just stating my opinion.
23:02
Here's what I don't want
23:02
if spice is "the next big thing", I want people to adopt it on it's own merits.
23:03
I want spice to be spice
23:03
And ltsp to be ltsp
23:03
but I'm not the boss, and code talks
23:03
if someone integrates it and supports it within LTSP, I'm cool with that.
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