IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 24 July 2013   (all times are UTC)

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08:45
<der_baer>
Hey all(good morning :D) is there a esay way to modify the ldm greeter that you can choose between users (witch is the default behavior in ubuntu for example). I something like a value passed over lts.conf.
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09:12
<Hyperbyte>
der_baer, how 'easy' it is depends on how well you can code C and how comfortable you are compiling your own version of ldm.
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09:17
<der_baer>
Hyperbyte: mm compiling ldm is not realy an option :D modify bash scriptes would be (I'm a C newbie)
09:19
Hyperbyte: and it would also be a bit over the top since the reason for my questions are lazy users witch witch are not able to type there usernames in a correct way :D
09:20
<Hyperbyte>
LDM is written in C, sorry.
09:20
Well, take that back to your users then. Software doesn't support it, modifying it so it does is way beyong your abilities (beyond mine too actually).
09:20
*beyond
09:20
:)
09:23
<der_baer>
Hyperbyte: yep, I did that already but its a bit hard to understand for them that lightdm (ubuntu default) and ldm ist diffrent
09:25
<Fenuks>
der_baer: How many users do you have there?
09:28
<der_baer>
Fenuks: at this installation we talk about 4, but they like long usernames such as "geschäftleitung_foo"
09:29
<Fenuks>
ok
09:29
<der_baer>
Fenuks: but they will be more in the future (ub to 10 i guess)
09:30
<Fenuks>
It wount be a problem for the to select. I have over 200 users, I'd like to see them selecting from such a list every time
09:30
<Hyperbyte>
der_baer, shorter usernames?
09:43
RX bytes:242728850 (231.4 MiB) TX bytes:1035055988677 (963.9 GiB)
09:44
Interesting how thin client servers have so little incoming data and so incredibly much outgoing. :)
09:44
<der_baer>
Hyperbyte: would be a solution i guess, but they like there long names :D, anyway its not possible so they will have to deal with it
09:44
<Fenuks>
Is that a line from the client?
09:44
<Hyperbyte>
Fenuks, server.
09:45
I just realised it's bonded interface, so there's more traffic on other interfaces.
09:47
Yeah, there's more incoming... around 500 GB incoming vs 2 TB outgoing
09:47
Interesting numbers. :)
09:47* Hyperbyte likes
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11:51
<mar77i>
hmm. I solved all issues, except for the libreoffice problem. it's funny, some users work just fine others take terribly long time
11:51
and it doesn't seem to matter if $HOME is empty
11:51
(so it can't be a dotfiles problem)
11:58
it's really peculiar, because I set up another user test and it just worked...
12:08
<Hyperbyte>
mar77i, "the libreoffice problem"?
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12:28
<mar77i>
a reboot on server-side helped
12:28
I'm doing a lot of things here :)
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12:34
<Hyperbyte>
Mmmkay...
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13:23
<mar77i>
Hyperbyte: oh maybe I wasn't clear enough about "libreoffice problem" == "taking a terribly long time [to start]"
13:24
<Hyperbyte>
And the reboot fixed it?
13:24
<mar77i>
yes
13:25
<Hyperbyte>
Weird. Next time this happens, check 'ps aux' for any errant LibreOffice processes.
13:25
<mar77i>
yes, it was stuck in some read. but the lack of debug symbols I couldn't figure which file
13:26
anyway, we're using edubuntu and unity, and the question was if it's possible to limit visibility of programs in dash and the windmill menu (top right)
13:27
<Hyperbyte>
Ooo... I've never used Unity
13:27
<workingcats>
sounds more like a question for #ubuntu
13:28
<Hyperbyte>
Well, I use it everytime I install Ubuntu, but it never takes long until I have it removed.
13:28
<mar77i>
same :)
13:28
<Hyperbyte>
Your users like it though?
13:28
<mar77i>
that's not up for debate
13:29
Hyperbyte: I don't tell my boss what to do, that's not how things work
13:29
not that he has any sane measure of what he's doing himself...
13:29
<Hyperbyte>
I'm not trying to debate anything... was just curious how your users responded. I can imagine Unity working for more "common" users.
13:30
<mar77i>
I won't ever hear of any users
13:30
<Hyperbyte>
I do tell my boss what to do by the way. It's an IT manager's job to tell his boss how can best accomplish things. :P
13:31
<mar77i>
my boss just gets mad
13:31
<workingcats>
Hyperbyte, rare, usually its the actual IT people's job to tell the IT manager how to/whether to accomplish thing ;)
13:31
<mar77i>
gets similar behavior patterns when I don't appear to find a problem like me when I watch him do stuff for a minte (usually, less)
13:31
<Hyperbyte>
workingcats, heheh, I work at a small company. :)
13:32
Well relative small. We keep office size small with lots of automation.
13:32
*relatively
13:34
<mar77i>
my boss checks if the chmods I set really appear on his screen
13:34
<workingcats>
Hyperbyte, thats my plan too ;)
13:34
well, we're only 2 technicians, but i feel we shouldnt have to do so much to just keep things up and running
13:35
especially since we have a few dozen VMs that could do with some OS major version updating hehe
13:35
<Hyperbyte>
:)
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14:22
<wiryono>
Hi what is the correct value format for lts.conf TIMEZONE ?
14:22
is it TIMEZONE=Asia\blabla
14:23
or TIMEZONE=GMT sthg ?
14:23
there is lack of example here ...
14:26
<Hyperbyte>
wiryono, standard timezone notation.
14:26
See /usr/share/zoneinfo/ on your system
14:27
For example, I use Europe/Amsterdam
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14:35
<wiryono>
do I need to put a quote ="Asia/sthg"
14:37
btw for the LOCALDEV=True I see my printer device when doing lsusb on the client
14:37
but it doesn't install the driver
14:37
when I do it from my own computer ( also ubuntu ) it detect automatically the driver ( same printer )
14:38
my own computer : ubuntu 12.04, ltsp server : ubuntu 12.04 server, ltsp client : ubuntu 12.04
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17:49
<Anivair>
afternoon, all. I've got a big job coming up and no idea where to start. Anyone have any experience with remote booting thin clients?
17:49
I've got a desktop server here, but now management wants people to work from home
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17:59
<brunolambert>
Anivair: You can look into NX
17:59
<Anivair>
@brunolambert: NX?
17:59
like virtual desktops?
18:00
<brunolambert>
it enable users from a different location to connect to the application server
18:00
<Anivair>
my goal is to send the employees home with a thin client that they can boot up there and load to our desktop server, I'm just not sure how to start
18:02
<brunolambert>
LTSP thin client require DHCP to boot. If your users are not on your network, it will not be possible for them to use a thin client
18:02
They would need a full computer at home to connect with NX.
18:02
<Anivair>
I was afraid of that
18:02
management is really eager to see this happen. balls.
18:03
but I can use NX or some remote desktop option to boot them into our desktop server using a computer, yes?
18:03
<brunolambert>
with NX, a full windows will open and they will think they are on their machine, but they will be on your LTSP appliucation server
18:04
<Anivair>
I guess that's my only option, then.
18:04
thanks
18:06
last question: any reason I can't run both NX and LTSP on the same server?
18:07
<brunolambert>
a far as I know they can run both on the same server
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18:09
<Anivair>
I'll give it a shot
18:13
If anyone comes up with a way to use the thin clients, let me know, but I understand why it's improbable.
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18:30
<Anivair>
@alkisg: to recap I just asked if there was any way to boot thin clients remotely. Management wants people to work from home. I'm guessing there's not. brunolambert suggested NX.
18:32
just in case you had any thoughts on the subject
18:33
<imox>
hello when I edit my lts.conf? how can I update the image?
18:33
just with ltsp-update-image?
18:34
<Anivair>
That will do it, though IIRC that is not required anymore.
18:36
<imox>
my lts is in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
18:36
and I updated my image but I don't have the changes
18:38
or I have to build a new client?
18:42
Anivair: do you have eny idea?
18:45
is someone here ;) ?
18:45
<Anivair>
Looks to me like you may need to ltsp-update-image. what arch are you running?
18:45
getting the right one built matters 100%
18:45
(sorry, responses tend to come slowly around here much of the time)
18:47
<alkisg>
Anivair: you can put the nbd image in a usb stick and put them to the thin clients you give your users, if you think that suits you better then nx over their own OS
18:47
<Anivair>
@alkisg: I'll give that a look. Thanks
18:48
@imox: Last time I did this I edited /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
18:48
and rebooted
18:48
sometimes a hard reboot helps a lot
18:48
if you haven't done one
18:48
<imox>
32 bit
18:49
<alkisg>
imox: which distribution and which version?
18:49
<imox>
xubuntu 13.04
18:49
<alkisg>
What do you have in lts.conf?
18:49
!pastebin
18:49
<ltsp>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
18:50
<imox>
just [default]
18:50
LDM_THEME=ubuntu
18:50
to try if it works
18:52
at this moment I create my ltsp image I have to wait ^^
18:53
<vagrantc>
rebuilding the image won't do anything if your lts.conf is not included in the image...
18:53
i.e. rebuilding the image is only needed after changing files in /opt/ltsp/i386
18:53
<imox>
how do I do that?
18:54
<vagrantc>
if all you're doing is editing /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf, it's probably not downloading the correct file for some reason
18:54
is your LTSP server also your DHCP server?
18:54
<imox>
yes
18:54
<vagrantc>
is there another DHCP server on your network, such as a router?
18:54
<imox>
no
18:54
all works fine ;)
18:54
I just want to change the boot screen :D
18:56
<vagrantc>
check your logs to see if it's downloading the lts.conf
18:56
<alkisg>
Try this: [Default]
18:56
SCREEN_02=shell
18:56
<vagrantc>
that's a good option, too
18:56
<alkisg>
...it's possible that you don't have the ubuntu theme installed in the chroot
18:56
<imox>
I have
18:57
<vagrantc>
setting SCREEN_02=shell will make it more obvious that it's reading your lts.conf at all.
18:57
that's the first thing you want to verify
18:57
<imox>
ok
19:16
vagrantc: ok it works
19:17
I have a black screen :D
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19:30
<Rolling>
hi i need help
19:31
who many ram i need to 100 terminals?
19:31
<imox>
32 :D
19:32
<Rolling>
thx bro
19:32
<imox>
no no I'm not sure ;) moment
19:33
I'm not an expert but I red it for a few days
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19:34
<Rolling>
ok
19:34
<imox>
30 mb per client
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19:34
<imox>
3 GB for the clients ;)
19:34
<Rolling>
and cpu?
19:35
<imox>
If you realy setup want to use 100 clients I would buy a very good hardware
19:35
even if you don't need it
19:35
;)
19:35
<Hyperbyte>
30mb per client>
19:35
?
19:35
<imox>
yes
19:36
<Hyperbyte>
imox, where did you get that number?
19:36
<imox>
from the ubuntu ltsp forum
19:36
<Hyperbyte>
Rolling, are you planning on using fat or thin clients?
19:36
<Rolling>
im building a Project for a person
19:36
<imox>
ok sorry 30 mb for a normal client and if you have a lot of application then 128 mb
19:36
<Rolling>
ok
19:36
<Hyperbyte>
imox, that's -nuts-
19:37
Rolling, fat or thin clients?
19:37
<Rolling>
fat
19:37
who
19:37
why@
19:37
<Hyperbyte>
Rolling:
19:38
<Rolling>
what
19:38
<Hyperbyte>
Thin clients are traditionally low-powered computers, that run nearly all of their software directly on a central server. The users' desktop is transferred over the network from the server to the client.
19:39
Fat clients are desktop computers that run all their software locally on the computer, but do 'download' all their software from a central network server.
19:39
<Rolling>
ok i need to go thx guys
19:39
<Hyperbyte>
...
19:39
Rolling, alright - but keep in mind, 30mb per client = wrong.
19:40
<Rolling>
yes know
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19:41
<Rolling>
thin clientes 128 mb ram
19:41
clients
19:41
<Hyperbyte>
At the very least.
19:41
<Rolling>
thx hyperbyte
19:41
<Hyperbyte>
And on the server, for 100 clients.... start thinking in the 64GB RAM area at least, preferably more if you have 128MB clients, since you're going to be running 100 instances of Firefox on the server.
19:42
Preferably you'd have two servers, since even with enough RAM, you won't find a CPU fast enough to handle that many clients, if they're used intensively (i.e, all browsing the web at the same time).
19:42
*two or more
19:43
With 100 clients, this story becomes more complicated than 'oh, 128mb per client'
19:45
Next you have to imagine bandwith usage.... 100 HD video streams losslessly compressed running around the network at the same time.
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19:45
<Hyperbyte>
Oh boy. Well, I wish him luck.
19:46
<imox>
I have under /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes my xubuntu theme and in my lts.conf this LDM_THEME=xubuntu
19:46
<Hyperbyte>
imox, link your source for the 30mb per client.
19:46
<imox>
Hyperbyte: but in german http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/LTSP
19:47
<Hyperbyte>
Ich verstehe Deutsch...
19:47
<imox>
sehr gut ;)
19:50
<Hyperbyte>
That page is nuts... and the author is crazy. "For 20 clients, you need 30 MB on each client and 1 GB RAM on the server."
19:51
<imox>
Hyperbyte: can you help why my boot screen dosn't change`?
19:51
<Hyperbyte>
First of all, I'm pretty sure modern Ubuntu kernels don't run on anything less than 128 MB. And if you have clients with so little ram, you will have to run -all- the software on the server. Does anyone really believe you can start 20 desktop sessions in 1 GB RAM?
19:51
That'd be 50 MB per desktop session...
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19:52
<Hyperbyte>
imox, yes, but you need to fix that page. :)
19:52
Your German is obviously better than mine, so I've volunteered you to do it.
19:53
As for your boot screen - I've never set LDM_THEME from lts.conf, I've always just changed the 'default' symlink to the appropriate theme
19:53
<imox>
yes but my english is very bad ^^
19:53
Hyperbyte: ok i will try this
19:54
<Hyperbyte>
Take a look in the themes directory. You'll find one symlink called "default" (this is the default LDM theme), it links to a certain theme
19:54
If you link it to another directory, LDM will use that theme by default
19:54
<imox>
yes I find it
19:54
<Hyperbyte>
Remember to run ltsp-update-image after modifying anything in /opt/ltsp/
19:56
<imox>
should I do this under the chroot ?
19:59
where are my themes under the chroot?
19:59
<alkisg>
/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/
19:59
<imox>
not
20:00
<alkisg>
What are the contents of that directory?
20:00
<imox>
/usr/share/ldm/themes
20:00
<alkisg>
$ ls /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/
20:00
default ltsp ubuntu
20:00
<Hyperbyte>
imox, you have to change the directory on the server, not on the client.
20:01
<imox>
ok
20:01
but the symlink is on the client
20:01
default -> /etc/alternatives/ldm-theme/
20:01
<Hyperbyte>
imox, the symlink is also on the server.
20:02
<imox>
default -> /etc/alternatives/ldm-theme from the server ;)
20:02
the same symlink
20:02
<Hyperbyte>
Are you using ltsp-pnp?
20:02
<imox>
but the path default -> /etc/alternatives/ldm-theme is in my chroot from the client
20:02
sorry what is pnp
20:02
<Hyperbyte>
ls -al /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/
20:03
!pastebin
20:03
<ltsp>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
20:03
<Hyperbyte>
Pastebin the output of that command.
20:03
<imox>
Hyperbyte: yes there are the themes
20:03
http://pastebin.com/zEwE86J5
20:04
<Hyperbyte>
And there's also a "default" symlink. See it?
20:04
Line 5 of your paste.
20:04
<imox>
yes but to /etc/alternatives/ldm-theme
20:04
<Hyperbyte>
Who cares.
20:04
<imox>
and this I just have on the client
20:04
not on the server
20:04
ok
20:05
<Hyperbyte>
It just might be reset back to default if you ever update ldm. :)
20:05
Else I think you can run update-alternatives if you execute 'ltsp-chroot' first, but it's more hassle.
20:05
<imox>
ok
20:05
I restart
20:06
<Hyperbyte>
ltsp-update-image!
20:06
:)
20:07
<imox>
yes ;)
20:07
I did it
20:08
hmmm
20:08
same bootscreen
20:10
<Hyperbyte>
!screen_02
20:10
<ltsp>
screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
20:10
<imox>
no effects
20:10
<Hyperbyte>
Make those modifications in your lts.conf, then after reboot of the client press ctrl+alt+f2
20:11
And run ls -al /usr/share/ldm/themes/ in the root shell
20:11
See if 'default' is linked correctly.
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20:28
<sat_>
hiiii
20:28
<Hyperbyte>
Hi!
20:28
<sat_>
i want to know detail @ ltsp
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20:32
<vagrantc>
there used to be some wiki.ltsp.org page that mentioned a base amount + X per client
20:32
though the numbers were fairly dated last i looked, but the premise is not too bad
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20:40
<messyjoe>
evenin' all
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21:03
<smurf>
new to ltsp irc...looking for some help?
21:03
<vagrantc>
!question
21:03
<ltsp>
question: if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
21:04
<Hyperbyte>
messyjoe, smurf, hi!
21:04
<smurf>
ok...using Ubuntu 12.0.4 LTS....I am getting "no response from server...restarting" at LDM login
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21:04
<alkisg>
!ltsp-update-sshkeys
21:04
<ltsp>
ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
21:04
<smurf>
I;ve done the usual update sshkeys etc.
21:04
no chance to IP
21:04
<alkisg>
Did you also run ltsp-update-image after that?
21:04
<smurf>
one NIC
21:05
also ran update image after that, yes
21:05
<vagrantc>
do you have ldm-server installed on the server?
21:05
<smurf>
should mention that I am using fat-client, and Centrify auth into domain
21:05
<alkisg>
Yup, that part about the domain would matter :)
21:05
<vagrantc>
can you ssh to the server with the same user and credentials from another machine?
21:06
<alkisg>
You mean active directory domain?
21:06
<smurf>
I got Centrify working on thin client, now trying fat-client
21:06* alkisg reads centrify.com...
21:06
<smurf>
yes, using AD domain
21:07
ssh question - you mean from booted LTSP client back to LTSP server?
21:07
<alkisg>
ssh is the key, check what vagrantc said above ^
21:07
<vagrantc>
smurf: from any machine to the LTSP server
21:07
<smurf>
OK, will try that...if it fails, what needs to be done?
21:07
<vagrantc>
although if it's working for thin clients...
21:08
<smurf>
I can login into ldm with my first setup user (non AD) OK
21:09
are there specific logs that can be checked...outside of syslog?
21:09
...that woudl matter
21:09
<alkisg>
There's /var/log/auth.log
21:09
<vagrantc>
auth.log
21:09
<smurf>
....in the ltsp client, yes? or on LTSP server?
21:09
<vagrantc>
on the LTSP server
21:10
<smurf>
are there any specific lts.conf entries that would get in the way?
21:10
<vagrantc>
smurf: so, with the same user, it works on thin client, but fails on fat client?
21:10
<smurf>
or help?
21:11
<vagrantc>
!pastebin
21:11
<ltsp>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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21:11
<vagrantc>
smurf: could pastebin it ^^
21:11* vagrantc has to head out soon
21:11
<smurf>
vagrantc - yes, thin client works with same user
21:12
needing fat client because thin too slow
21:12
<alkisg>
Thins work with non-AD and with AD users, and fats only work with non-AD users?
21:12
<smurf>
so far, yes
21:12
my centrify adcheck works OK within the booted fat-client
21:13
Can see and resolve all necessary AD info
21:13
<alkisg>
Do you have anything special wrt /home/usernames?
21:13
<vagrantc>
all it does is ssh to the server for login informtaion, unless you've done a lot of customization
21:13* vagrantc waves
21:13
<vagrantc>
good luck
21:13
<Hyperbyte>
smurf, you need to configure your AD inside the fat client chroot I assume.
21:13
<alkisg>
Also, try to log in with an AD user to a fat client, and check /var/log/auth.log on the server
21:13
bb vagrantc
21:14
<smurf>
no....no created usernames yet...they are created when login from Centrify
21:14
<alkisg>
smurf: so there's no home dir for the client to use?
21:14
<smurf>
no, there is not, but Centriy AD logins(successful ones) will create those
21:15
<alkisg>
Where? On the ltsp server? Or mounted e.g. via NFS/Samba/whatever?
21:15
<smurf>
on LTSP server, yes will work, and also on logged in thin clients
21:15
no Samba at play here
21:16
<alkisg>
(12:13:57 πμ) alkisg: Also, try to log in with an AD user to a fat client, and check /var/log/auth.log on the server
21:16
If the login is successful, then there might be some bug with group handling etc
21:17
<smurf>
OK, I have some things to chew on...thanks for the help so far..I need to go
21:17
<alkisg>
bb
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