IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 23 July 2008   (all times are UTC)

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08:26
<cliebow>
Gadi Rocks!!
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08:29* Gadi waves to cliebow
08:53
<Q-FUNK>
!g
08:53
<ltspbot>
Q-FUNK: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:56
<Gadi>
!Q
08:56
<ltspbot>
Gadi: "Q" is Q-FUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:56* Gadi looks at all those exclamation points
08:58
<ogra>
kids ....
08:58
<lejo>
;-)
09:00
<stgraber>
ogra: italc 1.0.9 is out, it's basically exactly rc4 :) I'll package it, then we can upload it to Intrepid and request a backport for Hardy
09:00
<ogra>
good
09:00
i dont know how well the upload bandwith is at freegeek though
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09:01
<ogra>
ah, wait we have the orig.tag.gz anyway, that should be fine then
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09:52
<nate66s>
can anyone tell me if there's anything special that needs to be done to get ITALC running on the clients?
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10:05
<cyberorg>
nate66s, nothing
10:06
nate66s, what distro?
10:06
<nate66s>
cyberorg: italc-master can't connect to the clients, so i'm screwing something up somewhere
10:06
<ogra>
depends which version :)
10:06
<nate66s>
cyberorg: hardy
10:06
<ogra>
the package from stgraber's PPA has avahi integration and will autodetect the clients
10:07
the one shipped in 8.04.1 needs you to add the clients to a classroom
10:07
<cyberorg>
ogra, that need something to be installed and activated in the chroot?
10:07
<nate66s>
ogra: i did that, yet still nothing
10:07
<ogra>
with <serverip>:11<last bit of client ip>
10:08
or 10<last bit of client ip>
10:08
i'm never sure about that port :/
10:08
<nate66s>
ogra: ah, ok
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10:13
<nate66s>
ogra: it's still not connecting
10:14
<ogra>
but you have a user logged in on a client, right ?
10:14
<nate66s>
yes
10:14
<ogra>
it will only connect to a running desktop session
10:15
<nate66s>
my clients are set up to auto login
10:15
<ogra>
with different users i hope
10:15
<nate66s>
yup
10:15
<ogra>
(not sure how italc would like the same user all over the place :) )
10:16
<nate66s>
lol, probably not at all
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10:26
<nate66s>
ogra: can't seem to find any italc packages in stgraber's ppa
10:27
<ogra>
he is just rolling 1.0.9 packages wait a bit :)
10:28
<ltsppbot>
"jorge_zer0" pasted "Connec Client LTSP Log Error" (279 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/37
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10:34
<nate66s>
ogra: ah, ty!
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10:51
<stgraber>
nate66s: look for the edubuntu-italc-devel team on LP, that's where I upload my packages
10:52
<nate66s>
stgraber: great, ty
10:52
<stgraber>
https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-italc-devel/+archive
10:52
<nate66s>
stgraber: i just tried running italc from the command line and whenever i add a client, the shell spits out a "[critical] not a server i can deal with" error
10:52
<stgraber>
I plan to upload the final 1.0.9 in 3-4 hours, I have a meeting to prepare first and then do some QA on the new packages
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10:53
<stgraber>
nate66s: your clients are running ica not x11vnc right ?
10:53
<nate66s>
the source makes it appear to be a protocol mismatch
10:53
stgraber: that's correct
10:53
<stgraber>
maybe something wrong with the port number or ica crashed
10:54
we found some serious bugs in the VNC server that are now solved since 1.0.9-rc4
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10:54
<jammcq>
Gadi: hey, arent' you traveling today?
10:55
<nate66s>
ok, cool.. i'll try the newer packages and see if that helps
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11:26
<jorge_zer0>
hi everyone... i'm having problems with my client... it doesn't finish bot... i have some OIL(?) error... anyone know this error?
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12:55
<Gadi>
jammcq: flight's not till 7:30PM
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14:02
<Lns>
Hey all
14:06
At the risk of starting a flamewar, can anyone give me some real-world experience of how AMD stacks up against Intel for LTSP servers (ubuntu hardy) ? Any insight?
14:07
Say, an Athlon X2 4200+ vs. Core 2 Duo E4500 ?
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14:09
<johnny_>
is that even worth starting a flamewar over?
14:09
lemme know when you change from it
14:09
oops
14:10
<Lns>
johnny_, I dunno, is it? ;)
14:10johnny_ is now known as johnny
14:10
<johnny>
i don't think it is anymore
14:10
i doubt you're gonna find much different
14:11
they are both good choices, just pick what you get a better deal on
14:11
or what has a mobo with a better chipset
14:11
<Lns>
well i've got 2 choices here that i'm looking at on ebay..the AMD is $100 less, otherwise besides the chipset they're identical 1U servers
14:12
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rackmount-Specialists-1U-Intel-Core-2-Duo-E4500-Server_W0QQitemZ200208485499QQihZ010QQcategoryZ71514QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 -vs- http://cgi.ebay.com/Rackmount-Specialists-1U-AMD-Athlon-X2-4200-Server_W0QQitemZ200208485314QQihZ010QQcategoryZ71514QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
14:13
Has anyone had issues with 64-bit LTSP server vs. i386 clients?
14:13
(with Hardy)
14:13
or is it still advisable to use i386 server
14:15
<johnny>
uhmm.. yeah.. with flash
14:16
hopefully intrepid will have flash 10
14:16
<Lns>
always with the flash ;)
14:16
<johnny>
and that works with pulseaudio, so your problems will be minimized hopefully
14:16
<Lns>
nice
14:16
<johnny>
if not, i'd suggest upgrading to flash10 outside of the distro
14:17
<Lns>
flash10 is still in beta, right?
14:18
how's its performance vs flash9.0r124?
14:19* sutula doesn't have any answers to Lns's questions, but is also interested in the answers, as he needs to set up a similar system
14:20* sutula also wonders about kvm running atop ltsp on the AMD or Intel CPU's...whether the use of kvm might dictate using one or the other
14:20
<johnny>
uhmm.. i'm just using it on my desktop so my videos will have sound, not sure if it crashes any less
14:20
they need the certain extension
14:20
both should have it
14:20
but why run kvm?
14:21
then again, the freegeek folks use xen i think
14:22
<sutula>
johnny: I've not researched it, but kvm seems to be the choice these days when you "have to" run a certain windoze app
14:23* sutula is very open to other ideas/experiences
14:24
<johnny>
really? i thought it was vmware
14:24
or virtualbox
14:25
<Lns>
I'm using both vmware server and virtualbox
14:25
they both run well, though vmware seems to run faster and has more features
14:25
both are free
14:25
(vmware SERVER that is)
14:26
<vagrantc>
xen kind of seems to be a dead-end technology... if you can get hardware supported by kvm, go with that.
14:27* sutula nods
14:30
<johnny>
not Free tho
14:30
virtualbox is Free if you don't mind the lack of usb .. :(
14:31
<vagrantc>
i haven't tried it in a while, but qemu + kqemu modules weren't all that bad.
14:32
that should support usb
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14:32
<johnny>
vagrantc, i'm sure it does.. but where's the nice gui :)
14:33
virtualbox makes it too easy
14:33
<vagrantc>
i've mostly been using virtualbox lately
14:33
<Lns>
vmware has a very nice gui as well
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14:33* vagrantc just doesn't consider non-free options when the free options work good enough
14:33
<Lns>
and has some pretty nice networking features, plus guest auto-start with host
14:34
<johnny>
vagrantc, i agree
14:34
until i really need usb support
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14:34
<Lns>
vagrantc, you mean F/OSS .. ?
14:34
<johnny>
i wonder if somebody will make a patch for usb support for the free version..
14:34
it could happen..
14:35
<vagrantc>
Lns: free as in freedom.
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14:35
<vagrantc>
johnny: more than could, i suspect it will be likely
14:36
<Lns>
vagrantc, what about http://www.vmware.com/download/open_source.html ?
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14:37
<johnny>
i clicked on the desktop product
14:37
doesn't look free to me
14:37
<vagrantc>
Lns: just looks like a list of products to me ... what does it mean?
14:37
<Lns>
right - the desktop apparently isn't free
14:37
vagrantc, when you click on a product you can download a .tar file or request a CD of modified source
14:38
<johnny>
hmm.. if there is no svn/cvs/git/mtn/bzr/ etc... then i don't really think it is that free
14:38
<Lns>
bah
14:38
<johnny>
it means no proper patches
14:38
no way to see why or how something was done
14:39
no way to find out what introduced the bug you found
14:39
<Lns>
I was merely pointing out the fact that vmware actually does offer their source code to the public
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14:42
<johnny>
yeah.. just as much as apple it sounds like, and just as hard to integrate :(
14:42
altho they might be doing better
14:42
the webkit situation was a mess for awhile, you'd just end up with a large drop of code, with no reasoning in how it got to the way it was
14:43
which kinda makes it hard to actually work with
14:43
<vagrantc>
Lns: that is a tiny part of open source, and one reason i don't like the term open source
14:44
<johnny>
Lns, you say bah, but you don't have to work with this junk :)
14:44
vagrantc, i think it is better than free.. free is too easily misused
14:44
prolly need a better phrase/word
14:45
libre is closest i guess..
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14:46
<vagrantc>
johnny: free as in freedom explains it pretty well.
14:46
johnny: but yes, many other languages make a better distinction
14:47
johnny: open source was basically an attempt to make free software palatable to businessfolk... which isn't a problem in itself, but it's not where i'm coming from.
14:48
<johnny>
well, you are reaping some of the benefits i'd imagine
14:49
<vagrantc>
surely
14:49
<johnny>
sometimes.. i actually have a hard time using the term free software tho
14:50
since the only true free software in my vision of freedom, is public domain
14:52
<sutula>
johnny: Getting to be off-topic here, I suppose, but public domain does nothing to keep it free, so (I suppose) that's why people tend toward licenses
14:52
<johnny>
sure.. the licenses are great
14:52
i use em
14:52* sutula sees johnny's point, though as well
14:52
<johnny>
i guess the most widely known public domain software of the current era would be sqlite
14:53
i don't know too many people who public their intellectual property under public domain
14:53
peter saint-andre of jabber/xmpp fame tends to use public domain for alot of his writings
14:54
it was cool meeting him in real life
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14:57
<Lns>
I'm having trouble seeing the benefit of having OSS *and* BSD style licenses...and I need to go so I don't expect to respond to anyone, but imho (and yes, ianap) BSD style licenses allow everything open source does, plus if someone wants to use it in a proprietary product without giving away their changes they can do so as well. That doesn't necessarily mean they're stealing and not giving back...but in the business world (and i'm not defending or offending this),
14:57
business people might find it better to "give back" monetarily and not by giving away the code. Which I don't think is a bad thing, either. You get whatever people want to give back. But it, imho, is still compatible with OSS because everyone who WANTS to participate and give back CAN.
14:57
ok...i'm sorry for all of that. I'll be back later...
15:00
<vagrantc>
public domain may not hold up in a court of law, whereas a free software license will.
15:02
<johnny>
Lns, you're about 5 years too late on making that business case
15:02
those objections don't seem to be stopping adoption
15:10
<ninkendo>
Is there a good way to verify if you're using LDM_DIRECTX in LTSP 5?
15:11
I verify that I have no processes running on the server, then I log in on my thin client, and I still see a process in ps that says "sshd: simon23 [priv]"
15:11
(simon23 is my username)
15:11
and I'm wondering why sshd would be running if I'm using directx
15:11
<vagrantc>
ninkendo: it still uses ssh to log in, even with LDM_DIRECTX
15:12
<ninkendo>
ok
15:12
<vagrantc>
ninkendo: best was is: echo $DISPLAY
15:12
ninkendo: if it's an ip address, it's using LDM_DIRECTX, if it says localhost, it's not using LDM_DIRECTX
15:12
<ninkendo>
localhost:11.0
15:12
hmm
15:12
but I have LDM_DIRECTX=True in lts.conf
15:12
<johnny>
try just T
15:13
<ninkendo>
O_o
15:13
<johnny>
i think the parser isn't as friendly as it used to be
15:13
<vagrantc>
johnny: what?!
15:13
<johnny>
quotes used to work :)
15:13
<vagrantc>
johnny: that sounds like a major bug.
15:13
<johnny>
remember :)
15:13
vagrantc, it was just a suggestion
15:13
i don't know if that is the case, as i always use T
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15:13
<ninkendo>
trying
15:13
<johnny>
but, if you recall, you used to be able to use quotes
15:13
<vagrantc>
johnny: ok.
15:14
no idea on the quotes.
15:14
<johnny>
i tried reading the lexer code, waaay above my head
15:15
<ninkendo>
johnny: still localhost:11.0
15:15
<johnny>
just coverin the bases
15:16
<vagrantc>
ninkendo: what linux distro and release are you using?
15:16
sounds to me like lts.conf isn't being processed, more likely.
15:17
<ninkendo>
vagrantc: ubuntu hardy
15:17
pretty stock install
15:18
<vagrantc>
ninkendo: where is your lts.conf ?
15:18
<ninkendo>
it's on a windows tftp server
15:18* vagrantc smiles
15:18
<ninkendo>
the same one that does our boot menu
15:18
<vagrantc>
i'm guessing there's an issue there
15:18
<ninkendo>
well, I'd hope you'd be wrong
15:18
since we're able to load the kernel and pxelinux.cfg off that server
15:19
<vagrantc>
well, it downloads lts.conf via tftp, and there's been issues with non-standard tftp servers.
15:19
binary mode vs. netascii
15:20
<ninkendo>
I'm pretty sure this was happening before we moved the tftp root to the windows server
15:20
at what point during the boot process does lts.conf get processed?
15:20
once ldm launches?
15:21
and, is it copied to the thin client's root fs first?
15:21
<vagrantc>
it's downloaded in the initramfs and copied to the root filesystem
15:21
<ninkendo>
I'm wondering if I can edit anything on the thin client to test it without rebooting, so we can rule things out
15:21
does it need to be built into the initramfs?
15:21
<vagrantc>
ninkendo: try this: SCREEN_07=shell
15:21
ninkendo: should stop ldm from starting at all.
15:22
<ninkendo>
trying
15:23
<vagrantc>
ninkendo: also, go ahead and paste your lts.conf to the pastebot:
15:23
!pastebot
15:23
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
15:24
<ltsppbot>
"ninkendo" pasted "lts.conf" (5 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/38
15:25
<ninkendo>
hmmm, yeah SCREEN_07=shell doesn't seem to have any effect
15:26
<vagrantc>
ninkendo: is your LDM server different from the root filesystem server?
15:26
<johnny>
you could just drop it into the /etc/ in the chroot
15:26
and then rebuild the image
15:26
<ninkendo>
vagrantc: no, they're the same
15:26
<johnny>
i had to do that due to netascii issues
15:26
<ninkendo>
that line about LDM_SERVER probably doesn't matter
15:26
<johnny>
luckily the new dnsmasq fixes it
15:27
<ninkendo>
I put it in there when I was attempting to fix ltsp from trying to get the nbd root from the windows server
15:27
<vagrantc>
ninkendo: best not to add things to lts.conf unless you know you need them.
15:27
<ninkendo>
heh
15:27
like the screen_02=shell line?
15:27
:P
15:27
<vagrantc>
well, that had a specific goal :P
15:27
<johnny>
i guess hardy will never get anewer dnsmasq
15:27
<vagrantc>
and it worked great.
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15:30* ninkendo is trying the /etc/lts.conf + ltsp-update-image approach
15:31
<vagrantc>
ninkendo: alternately, you can rebuild the initramfs with a patch to transfer lts.conf via binary tftp mode ... it's a pretty simple patch
15:31
<ninkendo>
vagrantc: is there a bash script somewhere I can edit?
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15:32
<vagrantc>
copy /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/ltsp_nbd to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/initramfs-tools/scripts
15:33
ninkendo: add "-m binary" to the line that downloads lts.conf
15:34
<ninkendo>
just initramfs-tools/scripts?
15:34
not a subdirectory thereof?
15:34
<vagrantc>
yes
15:34
<ninkendo>
ok
15:34
<vagrantc>
and then ...
15:34
chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 update-initramfs -u -k all
15:34
ltsp-update-kernels
15:34
copy the files to your tftp server ...
15:35
and try that.
15:35
<ninkendo>
so the line is now: (echo "get ${tftpath}/lts.conf"|tftp ${ROOTSERVER} -m binary >/dev/null 2>&1)
15:35
correct?
15:36
<vagrantc>
i think before the ROOTSERVER part
15:36
(echo "get ${tftpath}/lts.conf"|tftp -m binary ${ROOTSERVER} >/dev/null 2>&1)
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15:38
<supreme>
hi
15:38
how can i share the scanner plugged into the server
15:38
?
15:39
(share to clients users)
15:40
actually i can scan from clients but only as root
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15:50
<supreme>
ive tried to change permissions in udev, but i think i didnt do well
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15:55
<sutula>
supreme: When you manually log into the server, can you use the scanner?
15:55
<supreme>
i cannot have phisic access to the server, but i can use scanner as root from clients
15:56
(the scanner always is connected to server)
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15:57
<sutula>
supreme: My point is that it's probably not an ltsp issue. If normal users logged directly into the server can't access the scanner, then ltsp users won't be able to as well.
15:58
<supreme>
supreme: surely u re right
16:00
after change permissions in /etc/udev/ what can i do to take effect (except reboot cause its a classroom :S)?
16:00
<sutula>
supreme: Different Linux distros have different mechanisms to handle permissions...probably someone in a support channel for your server's distro is the best choice
16:01
supreme: My guess is you'd have to reboot the server...if you change perms on the /dev file, you wouldn't need the reboot, but then it will go away next reboot
16:06
<supreme>
ok,thanks
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16:11
<sutula>
supreme: Most distros prefer to take care of this with /etc/groups entries, but have different ways of changing that file. If you go that way, users have to log out and log back in to gain group access.
16:14
<supreme>
humm /dev/parport0 is the scanner his permissions are rwxrwxrwx and belongs to lp group, where belongs all other users too
16:14
:/
16:15
but i think this issue already isnt for this chan
16:19
<ninkendo>
vagrantc: that worked, thanks!
16:20
<vagrantc>
i considered making it the default ...
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16:32
<jammcq>
vagrantc: hey, I made reservations for friday nite at 7pm. Figured we could change them if we need to
16:32
<vagrantc>
jammcq: ok, cool.
16:33
<jammcq>
I said 10-12 people and I'd call her if we'll have more than that
16:33
I know Gadi won't join us
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16:34
<vagrantc>
jammcq: sounds reasonable. where is it?
16:35
<jammcq>
1201 12th ave SW
16:35
<vagrantc>
jammcq: you you expect there will be some of those funds leftover for other meals?
16:35
<jammcq>
it all depends on how many go to .br
16:35
and how much wine we enjoy
16:35
<vagrantc>
heh
16:36
<jammcq>
for the other meals, i'm willing to pitch in some money to help
16:36
<vagrantc>
brazil isn't known for it's wine, sadly.
16:36
<jammcq>
no, but south america in general has some excelent wine, especially Chili
16:36
<vagrantc>
indeed.
16:36
<jammcq>
and they have it at this place
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17:22
<krasna>
hi, how can listen sound in openoffice2.4?
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19:24
<devsforev>
Greetings everyone. I am working on getting an LTSP setup in my home. After installing nvidia-glx with apt-get, I tried running ltsp-update-image. But it doesn't exist! I am running Debian Etch and LTSP 5. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
19:28
<johnny>
it exists outside of the chroot, not inside
19:28
<devsforev>
johnny: i am outside of the chroot
19:28
<johnny>
hmm.. but you have ltsp-build-client ?
19:29
<devsforev>
yes i do
19:29
<johnny>
vagrantc, any ideas on that?
19:29
<devsforev>
I have ltsp-build-client, ltsp-update-kernels, ltsp-update-sshkeys but no ltsp-update-image
19:30
<vagrantc>
devsforev: no need to run ltsp-update-image on debian
19:30
devsforev: and i presume you're using the version of ltsp from etch, not the backported version
19:30
<devsforev>
really? thats pretty sweet; yes I am using the etch version
19:30
I just spend an hour googling and nobody else had my problem, so i figured i would come here
19:31
thank you greatly for your help!
19:31
<johnny>
aha.. so the backported version would have ltsp-update-image ?
19:32
<vagrantc>
johnny: they would have it, but it's not really used on debian.
19:32
the default is still to use NFS
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22:03
<vagrantc>
dberkholz, warren: y'all make it to town alright?
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