IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 28 June 2010   (all times are UTC)

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04:28
<elias_a>
stgraber: Sorry to hear you have so skip Akademy.
04:30
Would it be possible for you to give a short presentation from Canada?
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05:47
<zeitsofa>
hello :) my thinclients can't boot from LTPS Server, but i don't know why. at syslog i found the line in.tftpd [2843] tftp: client doas not accespt options. thats all i found. can anyone help me to solve it?
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06:47
<xperia2>
hello to all. i am totally new to ltsp and i am searching for information to buy chip hardware that works with ltsp and ubuntu. what for possibility exist if i want to start as a example in a development country a nation wide internet caffe ?
06:48
exist some cheap cards for attaching monitors and keyboards/mouse to such cards maybe even for multiple user at once ?
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06:50
<alkisg>
zeitsofa: what message do you see when the client tries to boot?
06:50
E.g. tftp error, or no boot filename etc
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10:18
<atkuepker>
anybody know offhand what shell is used by the X11 process that calls sbalneav's Xexit? Trying to customize that script to NOT run if $USER == "root"
10:18
under Ubuntu, mind.
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10:43
<atkuepker>
if anyone else cares (or ends up finding this page in the archives), it's being called by /etc/X11/Xsession and is using the '.' shell call and thus is using the current Ubuntu 9.10 default of /bin/dash. Not exactly tolerant of non-POSIX-perfect code.
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11:54
<johnny>
atkuepker, yep.. that's how it's been .. all scripts that ubuntu relies upon must be runnable by dash
11:54
if they aren't.. it's a major issue
11:56
<alkisg>
Unless they have #!/bin/bash on top :)
11:58
<atkuepker>
no kidding... I have 10 years worth of legacy scripts to support. Really not liking how constraining dash is. Probably getting to be time to drop shell scripting entirely and move to python or similar.
12:00
<vagrantc>
if you're relying on bash features, explicitly specify bash and be done with it.
12:01
<atkuepker>
or for that matter, any of the POSIX features that Dash hasn't implemented yet.
12:02* vagrantc suspects dash is much more POSIX compliant than bash
12:03
<atkuepker>
won't argue that. but I don't expect bash to be all that compliant. I get pretty irritated when Dash doesn't have something that it's supposed to.
12:03
<vagrantc>
"supposed to"
12:04
<atkuepker>
for posix compliance. gotta walk the talk.
12:05* vagrantc wonders what the talk really is
12:05
<alkisg>
LIke what?
12:10
<atkuepker>
if so much noise is going to be made about Dash being the Shell of Choice because of its compliance with POSIX standards, it should fully comply.
12:10
otherwise, it's just pedantry that eats up even more of my time.
12:11
<vagrantc>
and it doesn't comply how?
12:12
<atkuepker>
some of the environment variables don't work as expected. it's a known issue, apparently.
12:13
<vagrantc>
well, the main reason that ubuntu switched, i believe, was a noteable speed improvement ... the posix issues are largely a side-effect.
12:13
<alkisg>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DashAsBinSh
12:14
<atkuepker>
boot speed is what I got from the press releases. Which I couldn't really care less about. A 20 second bootup is meaningless when the xSeries RAID cards spend 3 minutes sync'ing up.
12:15
<vagrantc>
at least on debian, you can configure bash as the default /bin/sh if it's really so painful.
12:15
i think ubuntu works as well
12:15
<atkuepker>
but is rather risky, as alkisg's link points out
12:17
I doubt I'll move my systems back to Bash. Just not worth the hassle.
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12:22
<Ghid0rah>
I'm having gnome/x crash on specific hardware for only a certain groups of users
12:22
the same user accounts work on other hardware
12:24
<alkisg>
!compiz
12:24
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "compiz" :: if compiz is giving you problems, one way to disable it for all users is: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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12:33
<Ghid0rah>
alkisg if it were possible I'd want to have your babies...
12:34
<alkisg>
Heheh, I already have 2 of them, no room for more :D
12:34
*3
12:34
Bah damn typos
12:34
<Ghid0rah>
argh
12:34
that problem was so frustrating
12:34
<alkisg>
Yeah and it only appears under remote X...
12:34
We need to annoy the compiz developers a bit about it :)
12:42
<Ghid0rah>
ya know
12:43
I've never had the level of support, even with commerical products, as I do here
12:43
it is amazing how quick of a response you guys give.
12:47
<johnny>
Ghid0rah, except it tends to be only active during usa/europe business hours
12:47
and only during weekdays
12:47
<Ghid0rah>
which is awesome
12:47
<johnny>
sometimes you'll run into people at other times (like alkisg or myself)
12:48
<Ghid0rah>
because that is when I'm working on this
12:48
<johnny>
Ghid0rah, sure.. but it sucks for people who live west of western europe
12:48
<Ghid0rah>
for more than 1 reason ;)
12:48
<johnny>
obviously some people end up overlapping
12:49
but still.. it'd be nice to have it more active elsewise
12:49
<Ghid0rah>
true
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15:16
<Ghid0rah>
Does anyone know if there is away around x closing upon failed login?
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15:33
<denisesball>
hey, does anyone have access to a terminal on ubuntu 10.04? i have a website that continually completely crashes all my terminals
15:33
and its such a simple site
15:33
konqueror does not crash
15:35
<alkisg>
Link?
15:35
<Ghid0rah>
I'll test it too
15:36
<denisesball>
jgarigen.com
15:36
it hangs firefox and then goes black, and then kicks me to the login
15:37
i tried creating nbdswap.conf w/128mb and no help. gotta be a firefox thing, cuz konq is fine
15:37
<Ghid0rah>
seems to work for me
15:37
<denisesball>
oh course
15:37
<alkisg>
How much ram does your client have?
15:37
<Ghid0rah>
isn't that how it always it
15:37
<denisesball>
128mb
15:37
<Ghid0rah>
are you doing local apps with those clients?
15:37
<denisesball>
no local apps
15:37
and all terminals crash on the site
15:37
<alkisg>
Try rebooting and passing "nocompcache" in pxelinux.cfg/default, while NBD_SWAP=True in lts.conf
15:38
<denisesball>
same with townballroom.com
15:38
alkisg: do i have to put NBD_SWAP=True in lts.conf for it to use /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf.?
15:38
because i did not
15:38
<alkisg>
Yes
15:39
<Ghid0rah>
when should NBD_SWAP be used?
15:39
<denisesball>
yeesh, that is not clear in the manual
15:40
<alkisg>
!lts.conf
15:40
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
15:41
<alkisg>
Doesn't NBD_SWAP in that page mention it?
15:42
Yup, xorg runs out of memory with 128M on that page
15:42
<denisesball>
yeah it does on that page
15:42
<alkisg>
In my case firefox closes but X doesn't - and I got a local `top` running to verify the memory problem
15:43
<denisesball>
alkisg: oh sweet, you confirmed the crash?
15:43
<alkisg>
Yeah it's the classic X pixmaps problem
15:43
<denisesball>
trying nbdswap=128 WITH NBD_SWAP=True in lts.conf this time :P
15:44
<Ghid0rah>
alkisg
15:44
when should NBDSwap be used?
15:45
<alkisg>
denisesball: the problem is that the initial jpg in that site is 1.3 MB, which is huge
15:45
Ghid0rah: when you need swap...
15:45
In general, you need swap with <= 128 RAM, or if you use localapps
15:45
<denisesball>
holy crap alkisg good catch!
15:46
<Ghid0rah>
sorry for my ignorance on this... what is a good amount of swap?
15:46
<denisesball>
that would explain the townballroom.com crashes too, looks liek they also dont know how to scale
15:46
<Ghid0rah>
do you need swap if you have 1gb of memory on a thin client with local apps?
15:47
<alkisg>
denisesball: so if you point firefox JUST to the image, it still crashes: http://jgarigen.com/web_images/website_entrance.jpg
15:48
<denisesball>
yep i see that
15:48
even with adding 128mb of nbdswap, i still crash
15:48
<alkisg>
Ghid0rah: on normal PCs it is said that you should reserve 1-2 times the RAM as a swap space
15:48
<denisesball>
is there a way to verify nbdswap is working?
15:48
<alkisg>
Ghid0rah: so, for a normal PC with 1 Gb ram, one would use a 2 Gb swap partition
15:49
Now, it's not easy to have 2 Gb swap for each client on the server
15:49
So, usually we don't do it. But if you open firefox with 50 tabs locally, you might experience crashes...
15:49
denisesball: run `free` from a localxterm
15:50
!localxterm
15:50
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
15:50
<denisesball>
alkisg: ok 1 sec, after i reboot the thing again...
15:55
<alkisg>
For some reason rendering a 1.3 MB jpeg makes firefox tell xorg to use 50+ MB of memory.
15:55
And rendering the same image with chrome doesn't make xorg use any memory, so no crashing there. It's extemely slow to render though, while using eog is quite fast.
15:56
<denisesball>
gotta be a firefox bug?
15:56
<alkisg>
So we should probably file a bug against firefox, because using so much memory isn't normal...
15:56
<denisesball>
yeah thats a problem for my users, all they use is firefox and web apps
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15:58
<denisesball>
alkisg: you gonna file the bug?
15:58
im about to leave
15:58
<alkisg>
Nah, no time to properly address it
15:58
<denisesball>
will someone else? or do u need me to?
15:59
<alkisg>
If you have some time, please do.
15:59
<denisesball>
ok ill try to get to it tomorrow
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16:03
<denisesball>
ok alkisg running free in a local xterm, i have 12056 total Mem and 161072 free Swap
16:03
firefox still destroys the terminal going to that website!
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16:05
<alkisg>
That picture is 6480x4320 pixels!!! Insane!
16:05
So, with 32bpp, it would need 111974400 bytes of xorg memory, i.e. 107MB
16:06
<denisesball>
should i keep increasing it until it works lol
16:06
just for a test case
16:06
<alkisg>
Nah
16:06
Try X_RAMREC
16:06
Errrr perc
16:06
See lts.conf about it
16:06
<denisesball>
what should i set it to?
16:07
<alkisg>
Try different values, I don't know what would work. But it should keep the TC from crashing...
16:07* alkisg tries to crash firefox with a huge _blank_ image...
16:07
<denisesball>
should i keep the ndb swap too?
16:08
<alkisg>
A little swap is OK, the default 64Mb should suffice
16:08
<denisesball>
"By default, swap files are 32 Megabytes in size."
16:08
<alkisg>
You might also want to remove compcache if you enable nbd_swap
16:08
<denisesball>
isnt 32 the default?
16:08
<alkisg>
Nope, it's 64 on lucid
16:08
We need to update the docs
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16:31
<alkisg>
Hmmm it seems there's something special with this particular picture. I made a test case with an 10000x10000 image, and firefox doesn't crash...
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16:49
<alkisg>
OK, here's a test case: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alkisg/tmp/
16:49
The "no-xorg-memory.jpg" doesn't crash, while the "xorg-memory.jpg" crashes
16:49
The second image makes xorg use TEMPORARILY 120 MB of additional memory
16:50
Both images are of the same dimensions...
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17:05
<alkisg>
I tried saving the image as jpg, and xorg doesn't use 120MB+ RAM anymore. So it's probably a problem in the jpg library that firefox uses
17:05
***tried saving the image as png
17:07
Oooops sorry it did happen it just happened too fast and I didn't see it with `top`. The client still crashed though. :)
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19:34
<jammcq>
hey friends
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