IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 March 2016   (all times are UTC)

00:46
<gehidore>
arg
00:47
battling myself alkisg
00:47
debating on restarting my project to make ltsp function flawlessly on ArchLinux or just use Ubuntu
00:48
<maldridge>
just use ubuntu, arch not worth
00:50
<gehidore>
it's worth it to me... as it's my native environment and generally ahead of those "zero day" vulnerabilities because it's often just behind upstream...
00:50
but on the same token having the leg work done already is a big bonus
00:51
so it really is a 50/50 draw in my perspective
00:52
<maldridge>
fair, its part of the reason I'm working to get ltsp up and running on void
00:52
<gehidore>
for poc I could just use Ubuntu and continue with arch on the side... once it's solidified I could just migrate data and accounts
00:52
<maldridge>
I am also at the "but ubuntu already has it" stage of fighting with it
00:52
are you standing up a new site?
00:52* vagrantc would be glad to see more active development from multiple distros again
00:53
<gehidore>
currently all scattered windows boxen
00:53
<maldridge>
I see, looking to consolidate and simplify then?
00:53
<gehidore>
I've got a couple weeks before I even likely have approved funding...
00:54
basically refuse to setup windows active directory on these machines because they're so slow already
00:54
vagrantc: that's a solid point
00:55
I think I'll go with my poc idea and continue working on it for ArchLinux once I'm happy migrate
00:55
<vagrantc>
healthier for the community at large
00:56
<maldridge>
fair point with AD. I wound up setting up fat installs in one of the high performance labs I work with just because we had the compute power, they all use a pair of linux DC's for auth, but ltsp is still unbeatable for smaller setups
00:56
<gehidore>
at least I her the support of the wheel now while I adapt to the other management mindset
00:57
maldridge: vagrantc thanks for the input
00:57
<maldridge>
any time
00:57
<gehidore>
now I just need to find adorable micro atx cases with 24pin power supplies
00:58
affordable too
00:58
<vagrantc>
pick any two of three desirable qualities :)
00:58
<gehidore>
haha
01:10
<maldridge>
gehidore: if you're US based microcenter had some nice ones from thermaltake a while back
01:10
(I think that was the brand)
03:59
<gehidore>
maldridge: recall a price? we're a small not for profit (I get paid less than 150usd a month) so my budget is nearly nil
04:00
finding them with PSU for 35$ shipped on newegg iirc
04:07
<maldridge>
gehidore: I think after rebate it was around 35, I picked up in store though
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05:43
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I'm trying to kill 3 different timeouts, 2 in the initramfs and one in the kernel, getting down the 16.04 client boot time from 45 seconds to 12 seconds :)
05:44
I'll repush the latest commit though as I have a wrong > instead of >> there
05:49
OK, done
05:58
So, LDM is reached in 12 seconds: [ 12.763038] block nbd9: Receive control failed (result -32)
05:58
:)
06:22
<gehidore>
maldridge: ahh, there's no shops like that local or within reasonable "this saved you money" type driving
06:22
<maldridge>
yeah, really convenient if its just down the road, not so much otherwise
06:27
<vagrantc>
alkisg: nice work!
06:27
alkisg: what kind of hardware for your time tests?
06:27
<alkisg>
vagrantc: there's still an issue with 10 seconds timeout with IPAPPEND=3, in recent Ubuntu versions, as they enable CONFIG_IP_PNP and hit some kernel bug there
06:27
I'm just using Virtualbox and checking the last timestamp in dmesg
06:28
It was 45 yesterday, it's 12 today :)
06:28
<vagrantc>
alkisg: sure, but you can run virtualbox on a quad-core i7 with 8gb of ram, or a 300MHz celeron with 256MB of ram...
06:28
you *might* get different results :)
06:28
<alkisg>
Timeouts in general are the same
06:29
They're just "sleep 10 seconds" or so
06:29
So the difference will be the same; of course on a slow pc it might get down from 145 to 112, but the difference will again be the same
06:29
<vagrantc>
ah, that level of fix ... yeah, those would be good to kill
06:30
<alkisg>
It was a "wait-for-root 10 seconds" due to nbd, a "wait-for-root 5 seconds" due to resume, and the 10 seconds kernel wait for an ethernet device (before the initramfs)
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07:43
<gehidore>
that's an impressive delay alkisg
07:43
<alkisg>
Yeah it regressed to much from 12.04
07:44
*too
07:46
<gehidore>
I'm disgusted with my lack of observation lately, completely missed the fact that the dimple standoffs in the p4 case don't match microatx, the power supply is only 4" lead, the other 3 boxes I have are only 20 pin and too low of voltage to use a 24 pin adapter... and for the life of me can't find reliable source for < 40USD with shipping micro / mini cases with psu's
07:48
<alkisg>
gehidore: I installed the amd board in a p4 case, it worked fine with the old PSU
07:48
<gehidore>
was the lead for it only 4" though?
07:48
<alkisg>
Maybe your existing cases are too incompatible :)
07:48
<gehidore>
these are bizarre
07:52
talked to the second in charge at the company and she says it's likely the boss will spring to spend a little extra as it's going to save tons in the long run and even more in headache...
07:52
<maldridge>
gehidore: I don't know that you can get the discount you are looking for, but this is the case I have:
07:52
https://jet.com/product/detail/062ece1c76ae4c48b3ee3e32b2af275f?jcmp=pla:ggl:cwin_electronics_a2:electronics_accessories_computer_components_a2_other:na:na:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&k_clickid=26659b5f-1422-447e-8572-f170af98f479&abkId=405-1575979&gclid=Cj0KEQjwlLm3BRDjnML3h9ic_vkBEiQABa5oebHcYq5xVvIobbPIddxDunFqr6EklY1CWIBBrAJo3EIaAtv78P8HAQ
07:52
... that wound up a longer URL than I thought
07:54
<gehidore>
/window bare handled it just fine
07:54
nifty looking machine
07:55
<maldridge>
its great, but I had to take the case apart to get a PCI card in
07:55
<gehidore>
I'm just appalled by the idea of spending the same amount on a case as the board itself
07:55
<maldridge>
you could get down to $36.99 from directron with a slightly different case, but I've never heard of that company before
07:55
yeah, I spent only $20 on the board that's in the case, but I wanted it to be well protected
07:56
<gehidore>
I built a case today out a fedex box only to realize that the psu I was putting in there was only atx1.1 20 pin
07:56
had the standoffs and everything in place and oh poop can't plug in the psu
07:57
<maldridge>
ouch, I've gone the box route before
07:57
my local LUG has a production router in a CiCi's Pizza dough box
07:58
<gehidore>
hahah nice
07:58
my local lug is me. stupid ruralites
08:08
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Ultra-X-Blaster-Mid-Tower-V2-Case-with-450W-PSU-/351622470469 nothing quite like generics
08:09
if only I hadn't taken all those beige cluster towers to the recycle a year ago
08:09
<maldridge>
gehidore: where if I may ask?
08:10
and wow, that's a decent tower
08:10
<gehidore>
cinebar washington little bit of nowhere
08:11
<maldridge>
yeah, had to reach for google maps on that one, then doublecheck it actually sent me to the right place, I only see a road and a post office
08:12
<gehidore>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811148067 the crappy reviews scare me
08:12
<maldridge>
I don't buy logisys anymore due to quality control issues
08:13
$dayjob doesn't buy from newegg anymore because they shipped us stuff that was DOA and then wouldn't RMA it
08:13
<gehidore>
can't say I've ever bought them
08:13
I tend to buy from amazon 99% of my stuffs
08:13
<maldridge>
I trust thier return policy more, that's for sure
08:14
<gehidore>
lately I've bought a few newegg because my other job newegg is one of our biggest customers so I get to deliver my own packages
08:14
<maldridge>
haha, that has to be entertaining
08:15
<gehidore>
just means I get 1.50 back on each
08:15
makes the boss laugh
08:15
<maldridge>
I can imagine
08:16
<gehidore>
hoping for that to just be a temp job but at least it's consistent
08:17
<maldridge>
consistency could certainly be good
08:18
case wise you could dead-bug style it with some cheap wood
08:18
it would look silly but it should be <$5 per "case"
08:18
then you'd just need boards
08:18
s/boards/PSUs
08:18
<gehidore>
that's the irony, part of what this company does is a wood shop and we happen to have a cnc wood carving machine
08:18
so I really could make some hipster snap together wood cases
08:19
not sure what the boss would say about it as he has to factor in the time spent on the machine into $$$
08:19
I think it'd be a neat representation of what the shop could do though
08:19
<maldridge>
what kind of CNC machine? assuming a standard ~3 axis mill you should be able to do the cutting in about 15 minutes per case
08:19
simple mortis and tenon would do it
08:21
<gehidore>
exactly
08:21
was thinking half dove so it could tip in from center then a full dove on the top or something
08:21
only fasteners being those to hold the risers and psu in place
08:22
let me see if I can find the link, it's a budget system as again we're a true not for profit
08:22
iirc it just uses a porter cable router for the cutting head
08:23
<maldridge>
if you had access to a laser cutter my CAM software suggests you could do it in ~8.6 minutes of laser time per case with 1/8" lauan
08:23
<gehidore>
nice
08:25
http://www.digitalwoodcarver.com/
08:26
I could spin them out in my own half assed woodshop using the table saw and some cheap ply a little wood glue and happyland
08:26
still have to get psu's
08:27
<maldridge>
oh one of those, they are decent machines, I've worked on a shop made version of that before and got decent results from it
08:27
I assuem you have no source of dead computers to get full size PSU's from?
08:28
<gehidore>
I'll have to look at what's left in my stash at my folks shop, haven't looked there in ~5+ years though
08:31
<maldridge>
at the scary cheap end of the spectrum it looks like you could get a 180W PSU for $11 on amazon
08:33
<gehidore>
yeah
08:33
I'll have to ponder this some more...
08:34
cheers for now it's 0133 I probably should call it a night
08:34
<maldridge>
good luck, I'm curious to hear what you come up with, I will also be off as it is 0334 here
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16:23
<alkisg>
!alkisg-todo
16:23
<ltsp>
alkisg-todo: (#1) support xnbd-proxy for local caching: https://bitbucket.org/hirofuchi/xnbd/wiki/Home#!scenario-2-simple-proxy-server-distributed-copy-on-write, or (#2) LDM_GUESTLOGIN=auto, or (#3) Support UEFI, or (#4) make KEEP_SYSTEM_SERVICES override user-defined RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES, or (#5) change /var/cache/ltsp to /run/ltsp, or (#6) support for per-user login commands in lts.conf, or (#7) fix RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES under (1 more message)
16:23
<alkisg>
!more
16:23
<ltsp>
systemd, or (#8) "Remove the 5 sec initramfs delay due to resume="
16:23
<alkisg>
!forget alkisg-todo 8
16:23
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
16:23
<alkisg>
!forget alkisg-todo 7
16:23
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
16:23
<alkisg>
!forget alkisg-todo 4
16:23
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
16:23
<alkisg>
!alkisg-todo
16:23
<ltsp>
alkisg-todo: (#1) support xnbd-proxy for local caching: https://bitbucket.org/hirofuchi/xnbd/wiki/Home#!scenario-2-simple-proxy-server-distributed-copy-on-write, or (#2) LDM_GUESTLOGIN=auto, or (#3) Support UEFI, or (#4) change /var/cache/ltsp to /run/ltsp, or (#5) support for per-user login commands in lts.conf
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16:25
<alkisg>
vagrantc: all bugs squashed, ready for release :)
16:25
I'll test it in a couple of days if you want to wait until it's properly tested
16:25
Now I only tested in a VM...
16:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: more testing is always good :)
16:26
<alkisg>
I also managed to convince the Ubuntu folks to kill the 10 sec timeout due to ip=xxx
16:26
You're fortunate that Debian doesn't have that :)
16:26
<vagrantc>
yay
16:26
<alkisg>
So, from 45 secs boot time down to 12!
16:33alkisg is now known as alkisg_away
16:34* markit would love to be able to convince kde folks not to read so much data from HD at startup
16:35
<markit>
xNBD? mmm let's read about it
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18:02
<gehidore>
markit: use !kde then it doesn't read any KDE files on startup
18:02
;)
18:05
<markit>
gehidore: is a joke or something I ignore? it reads all icons/whatever and populates /var/temp/kdesomehting, but I/O is very heavy
18:08
<gehidore>
markit: it's me being a smartass, sorry
18:10
kde/gnome have been too heavy on the IO for me since ~1999 so I snark at them whenever I can - for the intial setup I did at the office for demo - before the hard disk simply failed - I used xfce4 and the folks that already knew kde/gnome whre quite happy
18:10
were even
18:12
<maldridge>
gehidore, still better than cinnamon, which preloads all accounts listed by getent passwd
18:17
<gehidore>
maldridge: ouch!
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18:18
<gehidore>
I guess I've embraced the simplistic to such an extreme that I'm still boggled by the overhead full DE's impose
18:18
even half DE's
18:19
on another note, when will manufactures grow up and realize we've moved past the #.99 on prices and all the flair claims of 5x faster!
18:19
just look at this page... http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/QC5000M/
18:19* vagrantc was surprised how much resources XFCE took
18:20
<gehidore>
vagrantc: that wouldn't shock me either, but I couldn't convince these people to go as minimal as tiling or frankly anything lighter than xfce...
18:20
on the scale of going from full de to light weight it was the first
18:20
<vagrantc>
sure
18:21
i had used lxde for ages, but now it sems like development has moved to lxqt
18:21
<gehidore>
and ran amazingly smooth in a 64bit p4 with 4G ram and a rotational drive.
18:21
lx* was the next on the list and then that rotational drive simply failed
18:23
I used fluxbox from the time it was born until about ~3 years ago I'd guess so even xfce was too much for my personal daily use. for a group of lifelong windows users it was an amazing transition.
18:23* gehidore is open to suggestions for when he finally gets the asrock board into a functional case...
18:24
<gehidore>
I've since lost that list only knowing xfce was first on the list and lx*something* was second
18:24
<vagrantc>
i used ion3 and then tritium and then lxde and the last couple years have been using gnome3 :)
18:24
<gehidore>
peoples will be restricted to firefox, thunderbird, libreoffice and maybe a select few others
18:26
this is also always my final note on the great DE/WM/FB/Console debate: Use what suites _you_ the best
18:27
<vagrantc>
i had a fling with icewm on ltsp installs way back in the day
18:28
yup
18:33
<gehidore>
how'd that go for ya?
18:34
I think these new boards could handle even gnome/kde with ease once it was load. there's just so much *stuff* these people don't need to have distracting them
18:35
<vagrantc>
i think the features i actually like in gnome3 could be written without all the cruft
18:35
<gehidore>
that's how I always felt about kde when I was a linux babby playing with redhat
18:37
<vagrantc>
mostly, i like the type-to-find applications ... the window-switcher with miniturized versions of each window in realtime is probably hard to implement without fancy graphics, though
18:37* vagrantc wonders how feasible it would be to do a thumbnail that wasn't realtime periodically, though
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18:37
<vagrantc>
kind of like epoptes does
18:44
<gehidore>
maldridge: ! 24pin extension pigtails!
18:47
<maldridge>
gehidore: ?
18:48
<gehidore>
http://www.amazon.com/uxcell-29-5cm-Computer-Female-Extension/dp/B00EZ50W36/ assuming a low cost wood scrap case could be made - of course it can. this would make it so I could reuse those p4 power supplies...
18:48
course the hoarder in me wants to stack them all in the corner for backup too
18:48
<maldridge>
oh, you've got old dell boxes don't you
18:49
<gehidore>
with 24 pin power supplies but the motherboard power only has a 4" lead on it which isn't enough to rationally mount the power supply to the rear and still plug in
18:49
but then too I'm trusting heavily power supplies from 8+ years ago
18:50
wow that was short lived, already talked myself out of it with mental images of sparks and smoke
18:50
<maldridge>
eh, I've trusted worse before. those cables are way overpriced though
18:51
<gehidore>
no doubt they are, that's what I get for selecting prime only options
18:51
<maldridge>
also re: DE/WM I found the cinnamon bug when it tried to load something like 6000 accounts off an ldap server onto my laptop, things just got really slow
18:51
we boot new users into lxde with the lubuntu theme on it, but we're considering pushing them into cinnamon now that it doesn't preload anymore
18:52
<gehidore>
I don't think I've ever actually seen cinnamon
18:52
<maldridge>
its *very* windows 7
18:53
we even have an internal nonfree theme that has all the aero artwork
18:53
and since we have an office suite that has the MS ribbon, it satisfies all the users
18:58
<gehidore>
http://www.amazon.com/Hewlett-Packard-HP-460968-001-462434-001-Compatible/dp/B00IGBVMA2/
18:58
<maldridge>
I saw that, but somethingjust seemed a bit off about it
18:59
maybe I'm too used to PSUs with dual fans
19:00* vagrantc is used to PSUs with no fans
19:00
<gehidore>
maldridge: nice. I used to use lindows for the elderly that would come to me and panic because their grandchild came over and looked at porn for 10 minutes now all they haveon their computer is virus and porn
19:00
I haven't built a desktop machine in at least 5 years
19:01
so I'm used to laptop power supplies
19:01
<maldridge>
I want an excuse to use this: http://www.amazon.com/160W-Pico-Power-Supply-Module/dp/B00OQDA3N6/
19:01
<gehidore>
that one looks pretty typical to me maldridge, any other detractors?
19:01
<maldridge>
gehidore: previous bad experience with HP, but nothing recent
19:03
<gehidore>
I've had previous bad experience with asrock to the point I swore off ever using them again, yet here I am with another. I blame alkisg_away
19:04
that 160W would actually work on this board, iirc it's only a 15W cpu
19:04
s/cpu/apu/
19:04
too bad the price doesn't beat the HP
19:05
and since I don't currently intend to provide the users with any optical I only need that 24pin
19:05
<maldridge>
ah, be careful with asrock if you intend to use gpt partition format, they seem to be still working that out in thier bios
19:06
I needed a uefi stub to get freebsd to load on one of my asrock boards
19:09
<gehidore>
interesting
19:09
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157616 this is the board
19:09
got one for POC right now
19:20
maldridge: these will also be the clients, probably going to repair the quadcore phenom box that refuses to post and migrate that into the position of squid/ltsp server
19:35
<maldridge>
nice board
20:08alkisg_away is now known as alkisg
20:09
<alkisg>
(08:23:51 μμ) ***gehidore is open to suggestions for when he finally gets the asrock board into a functional case... ==>
20:09
/me is using gnome-flashback, it's quite light
20:16
<maldridge>
is it actively developed on its own or is it still considered the fallback session?
20:28
<alkisg>
It's not an upstream gnome project anymore, it's developed by only a few developers on their own
20:29
The good thing is that it doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, it just complements gnome 3 for non compositing/3d accelerated environments
20:29
<maldridge>
ah, well I'm glad its still being developed
20:30
<alkisg>
so (like ltsp) it's trying to minimize its code base
20:30
<maldridge>
always a good plan
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