IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 27 June 2012   (all times are UTC)

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06:15
<alkisg>
Is there any advantage to printer sharing with jetpipe? Why don't we use plain cups sharing instead?
06:20
Ah, is it because of lack of printer drivers in thin chroots?
06:21
<muppis>
Yes.
06:21
And no reason to run cups in every client to just pipe to server.
06:22
<elias_a_>
alkisg: About the Pyramus test account.
06:23
After upgrade the functionality for creating test accounts is broken.
06:24
I have admin rights to the demo to help you out but I cannot do it.
06:24
<alkisg>
muppis: but does jetpipe work for any printer that cups supports, or with that we're limited to only a few supported printers?
06:24
<elias_a_>
It is already holiday season in Finland so I do not know how quickly they are going to answer my support request.
06:25
alkisg: I will get back to you as soon as they respond.
06:25
<alkisg>
elias_a_: no worries, I'm not into using ...secretery-like tools anyway :D, but I did post the link to the forum for other teachers unfortunate enough to have such duties :D
06:26
<elias_a_>
alkisg: Yep - I understood that already :)
06:26
<muppis>
alkisg, afaik it just act likes a mediaconverter for usb/lp to ethernet.
06:26
<alkisg>
elias_a_: It's a weird situation about such tools here in greece, they're usually handled by IT teachers that don't have enough teaching hours
06:26
<elias_a_>
But anyways - it is better to play around with such toys with an account.
06:26
<alkisg>
So most of them are considered unlucky :D
06:27
<elias_a_>
alkisg: What? Really strange!
06:27
<alkisg>
elias_a_: so, if you have something that I could post publicly, then I'll do so, but I'm not really interested to try it out myself
06:27
<elias_a_>
Ok. I understand.
06:27
<alkisg>
muppis: thanks, ok, sounds useful for thin clients then
06:28
<elias_a_>
alkisg: This was a very good piece of information for me. I (as people usually do) assumed that things are the same everywhere else as here...
06:28
Here the admin IT is separated from the IT that is used for education.
06:29
<alkisg>
elias_a_: that's only true here for only a handful of schools... only very large schools are fortunate enough to have someone to serve as a secretary (just one, not many)
06:30
<elias_a_>
I could actually as Schooltool user group about how the administration is taken care of. Schooltool is used in very many countries.
06:30
<alkisg>
And, there's usually no admin stuff, the IT teacher gets 3 hours per week to care about his computer lab
06:30
That's why I'm striving to automate anything, because I can't expect every IT teacher to invest to learn all about LTSP...
06:31
<elias_a_>
alkisg: Ok. Now I am beginning to see why your LTSP model is so lucrative :P
06:31
alkisg: You are doing a damn good job, you!
06:31
<alkisg>
Hehe, thanks, I hope so... the expected end result is just to have everything running easily so that we can focus on our teaching duties
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08:43
<Hyperbyte>
Hey everyone
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15:45
<stgraber>
alkisg: heya. Can't remember if you saw my message last week regarding epoptes. I changed the dependencies to | ssvnc so that it's buildable on armhf.
15:46
<vagrantc>
build-dependencies?
15:46
<alkisg>
Hi stgraber, I saw it but I was in a travel for a workshop so I didn't have time to check it out
15:46
stgraber: the client side was already OK, and the change was needed in the server side?
15:46
<stgraber>
alkisg: IIRC the client side was just suggesting ssvnc, it wasn't a conditional dependency as it should have been
15:47
vagrantc: s/buildable/installable/ :)
15:47
<vagrantc>
ah
15:47
<alkisg>
stgraber: gotcha, if you have a diff I can commit it upstream
15:47
<vagrantc>
i can't really test, but i can sponsor uploads :)
15:48
at least for debian
15:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't have anything more for LTSP, and I only have this ^ for epoptes
15:49* vagrantc ponders new upstream vs. patches for ltsp
15:49
<vagrantc>
a bunch of the changes are gentoo-specific ... though i do have roughly 2.5 days left before freeze
15:52
ooh. unique dbus id's
15:52
<alkisg>
That was tricky to pinpoint
15:52
<vagrantc>
that might actually fix a number of issues
15:53
<alkisg>
The symptom was "sudo gedit" not working in ltsp-pnp :O
15:53
I couldn't even imagine how it would be possible for the server to get notified of the thin client client dbus id
15:54
They're using a hidden X window to store it...
15:54
(similar to what we do with xprop)
15:54
stgraber: code changes were also needed for server side ssvnc, right?
15:55
<stgraber>
alkisg: I just changed the depends, it's quite possible the server side is just broken on armhf :)
15:56
<alkisg>
stgraber: up until now, we only committed bug fixes in epoptes, just in case you'd want to SRU it to 12.04. Should I tag what we have now, or should we also commit that one and it wouldn't affect a possible SRU?
15:56
<stgraber>
(though I didn't quite care at the time, I just wanted epoptes installable so we could actually generate an install media)
15:56
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, with the cups changes ... why kill the mkdir /etc/cups ?
15:56
<alkisg>
vagrantc: mkdir and then check if the dir exists?!
15:56
If the dir doesn't exist, why bother?
15:56
<vagrantc>
ah right, we merged two generations of code
15:57
alkisg: i think the packages we install don't necessarily create that dir, and it was created in the ltsp-build-client plugins
15:57
but maybe things have since changed.
15:57
<stgraber>
alkisg: I think the easiest for 12.04 will be to do per-commit cherry-picks, so I guess you can just go ahead and commit features changes to your trunk branch
15:57
<alkisg>
vagrantc: so is there any case at all that that dir wouldn't exist, and cups would be installed?
15:58
<stgraber>
alkisg: the diff from my upload last week: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1062753/
15:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg: there used to be, dunno if that's the case anymore.
15:58
<alkisg>
stgraber: we only have fixes that deserve a cherry pick, and translation updates, nothing else, so far
15:59
E.g. Phantomas wanted to put a simple "zoom" slider and I told him to wait as it would be a "feature"
16:00
vagrantc: cups ships /etc/cups here... anyway I don't mind either way, maybe we can leave it as is until some other distro mentions that it has cups without /etc/cups?
16:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: sure
16:01
<alkisg>
Hmm maybe the mkdir and then the test were there to test for bind mounts
16:01
ro root etc
16:02
<vagrantc>
possible, yes.
16:02
knipwim: you're still using bindmounts?
16:03
<alkisg>
Hmm and cups-client *doesn't* ship etc...
16:03
<knipwim>
vagrantc: yes
16:04
i looked at aufs and the likes
16:04
<stgraber>
alkisg: so I had a quick look at epoptes in Ubuntu. I won't be able to upload it without any change to 12.04 for an SRU but I'll cherry-pick all the changes and put them in a single changelog entry. I'm going to need a LP bug for every change though (except for translations)
16:04
<alkisg>
OK I'll put it back, it should be safer for now
16:04
<knipwim>
vagrantc: but a lot of trouble implementing it
16:04
<alkisg>
stgraber: I think we have one for each bug
16:05
<vagrantc>
knipwim: your initramfs giving you trouble with it, or other issues?
16:05
<knipwim>
mostly that one
16:05
also because it's not in the kernel
16:05
<vagrantc>
oh, i see.
16:06
<alkisg>
knipwim: so if I found a way to do the aufs mount from /sbin/init-ltsp, it would help gentoo?
16:06
<vagrantc>
is overlayfs mainlined yet?
16:07
<ogra_>
no
16:07
<knipwim>
alkisg: it would help i guess, but i still would have to find a way to integrate it nicely in the build process
16:08
is it a problem? doing bind mounts?
16:08
<alkisg>
Just a bit... additional checks, comfusing code in some cases when there are no comments...
16:08
<stgraber>
- Remove workaround for bug fixed in twisted.
16:08
- Ensure that epoptes-client is actually booted to LTSP before assuming it
16:08
is operating as a Fat client.
16:08
alkisg: ^ do you have bug reports for these two changes?
16:09* alkisg needs to be afk for 10', brb, will check then
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16:40
<alkisg1>
Twisted bug report: LP #943598
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16:46
<alkisg>
I don't think we have a bug report for the other one, as it was a bit rare (standalone clients with the ltsp-client package installed)... stgraber should I file a bug report for it?
16:50
<stgraber>
alkisg: yes, please
16:50
<alkisg>
ok
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17:01
<alkisg>
stgraber: LP #1018498
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17:09
<stgraber>
alkisg: debdiff for precise: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1062875/
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17:09
<stgraber>
alkisg: one last thing before I can upload, each of the bugs need to have a [rational], [test case] and [regression potential] section added to their description
17:09
the first needs to explain what the bug is and what's the fix (briefly)
17:09
<alkisg>
stgraber: each one?
17:10
...
17:10
<stgraber>
the second needs to be a step by step procedure to check that the bug is fixed
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17:10
<stgraber>
and the last needs to be a short explenation of possible regression that might happen if the fix explodes
17:10* alkisg decided that he suddenly doesn't care about the SRU so much... people can use the epoptes PPA :D
17:10
<alkisg>
30' fixing bugs, 3h supporting the SRU :D
17:11
I thought that it could all be done in a single SRU bug, the rationale etc
17:11
<stgraber>
alkisg: it usually just takes a couple of minute to document that... we're enforcing it for SRUs as people were extremely bad at documenting their changes and we'd end up with regressions and packages sitting in -proposed for years (the oldest one being 400 days old or something like that)
17:11
<alkisg>
Not for each one of the bugs...
17:11
<Phantomas>
Scottish Rugby Union?
17:12
<alkisg>
Hehe, close
17:12
Service Release Update or something
17:12
<knipwim>
search retrieval via url?
17:12
ah
17:12
<stgraber>
alkisg: I'll do it quickly for these 3, hopefully you'll see that it's not too painful :)
17:14
<alkisg>
stgraber: e.g. for the bug where one needs to have ltsp-client installed in a standalone machine, I'm not sure that any user would ever see it...
17:15
vagrantc was testing ltsp-pnp, that's why he saw it
17:15
So confirming that the bug was solved would be hard for a test case
17:16
<vagrantc>
well, i confirmed that that fix resolved the issue
17:16
<alkisg>
Sure, but ltsp-update-image -c / isn't even available in ubuntu 12.04
17:16
So you couldn't confirm it that easily on 12.04...
17:16
<vagrantc>
oh, right... so you'd have to install it with a ppa
17:16
<alkisg>
Or use a standalone client
17:17
And install ltsp-client on it just to confirm the bug
17:17
<vagrantc>
that's reasonably simple instructions...
17:17
<alkisg>
OK, but I'm not sure if it's worth all the trouble for a 1 line fix
17:17
I understand the reasoning, but...
17:18
Not that I have something better to propose
17:23
<stgraber>
alkisg: paperwork done :)
17:24
alkisg: I'll very likely be the one doing the tests anyway so I also know how to test these bits without too much pain :)
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17:25
<alkisg>
stgraber: thanks, and sorry for my lack of patience with bureocracy... I know it's necessary but I absolutely hate it some times :)
17:27
<stgraber>
alkisg: once you're used to what the SRU team wants, it's really not too much of a pain, and it forces you to read the diff once again :)
17:28
uploaded to -proposed
17:33
<alkisg>
vagrantc: so, I'll be tagging epoptes, do you want me to do the -1 (debian package) too?
17:34
<vagrantc>
alkisg: go ahead and tag -1, i'll just upload what you've got.
17:34
<alkisg>
Cool, ah, let me also do + test the ssvnc part that stgraber reported along with it - it'll take me some time, but I'll do it today
17:35
(it probably requires a bit of server-side code changes too)
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18:15
<alkisg>
vagrantc: your name in the changelog or mine?
18:15
(don't know if it matters for the upload)
18:16
..putting mine, if needed we can change it with bzr push --overwrite :P :D
18:16
Ah no I think I should put yours, it might need signing
18:17
Err no that wasn't a problem in previous versions. OK.
18:18
Pushed, testing...
18:35
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yours
18:36
<alkisg>
vagrantc: done
18:38
<vagrantc>
alkisg: no tags?
18:38
<alkisg>
vagrantc: sooorry I always forget bzr tags
18:38
Can I put them now?
18:39
...uncommit, tag, push --overwrite :P
18:39
<vagrantc>
no worries
18:39
can tag later and push
18:39
<alkisg>
Cool
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19:23
<vagrantc>
alkisg: uploaded, tagged and pushed tags
19:23
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ty... can I do something to help with ltsp?
19:23
<vagrantc>
epoptes, that is
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19:23
<alkisg>
I haven't used mkdst though yet
19:23
<vagrantc>
i can do some limited testing on my own
19:23
alkisg: i haven't been using mkdst lately either ...
19:23
<alkisg>
We did muuch testing in the workshop
19:24
We mostly found Ubuntu-related problems though :P
19:24
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's a pretty small diff, i can just do what i did for epotpes
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19:33
<Ghidorah>
Hello everyone, I'm looking into kerberos authentication with Firefox (localapp) on LTSP. I'm running to a snag, I'm not sure how to provide Firefox access to the kerberos ticket
19:33
Has anyone attempted anything similar with LTSP?
19:34
<vagrantc>
no experience with kerberos, but how would you normally get access to the ticket on a disked workstation?
19:35
<Ghidorah>
vagrantc: The ubuntu workstation I'm testing with, is authenticating with AD and caches a user kerberos ticket. From there applications can use this ticket for authentication
19:36
<vagrantc>
so where is it cached?
19:37
<Ghidorah>
in the users homedir
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19:39
<vagrantc>
Ghidorah: you might have an easier time doing this with a fatclient ... then you can just configure the LTSP environment however you configured the server
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19:40
<Ghidorah>
I hadn't considered a fatclient
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19:40
<vagrantc>
it's sort of like running all apps as localapps
19:41
<Ghidorah>
Please excuse my ignorance. Does it require a HD?
19:41
<vagrantc>
although LTSP does some trickery you might have to disable at login (for both localapps and fatclients) ...
19:42
Ghidorah: no, it's still all network booted, just all of the applications running on the local hardware, like localapps
19:42
thin client = all applications running on server, local apps = most running on server, some running on thin client hardware, fat client = all applications running on thin client hardware
19:43
<Ghidorah>
So is there a need for an application server? Is there a "remoteapp" feature, rather is there a need?
19:43
<vagrantc>
although, for both localapps and fatclients, LTSP does some things to /etc/passwd and such that might make proper network authentication difficult
19:43
Ghidorah: yes, there's also remoteapps ... i.e. most applications running on thin client hardware, some applications running on server
19:44
with fatclients, there's not need for an application server really, at that point it's just a file server.
19:46
essentially, LDM uses ssh to transfer username and group info over to the client, and set up the homedir ... not sure if that would mess with AD/kerberos at all.
19:47
basically, we invented localapps/fatclients to work around having to set up AD/LDAP/Kerberos
19:48
<Ghidorah>
so the root server would authenticate the user and then setup the fatclient?
19:48
<vagrantc>
sort of ... depends on what you mean
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19:49
<vagrantc>
basically, the root server handles all the network boot, you get to a login screen, and it logs into the server, and then LDM/LTSP set up the fatclient things username/groups, homedir, starting the initial session, etc.
19:50
the server essentially serves up the root filesystem and homedir and authentication mechanism, and everything else is running on the thin client
19:51
<Ghidorah>
I'm assuming there is no need for LTSP-Cluster with fatclients then?
19:52
<vagrantc>
not sure
19:52
haven't worked with LTSP-cluster at all
19:52
<Ghidorah>
I really like its web interface and logging
19:53
prior to LTSP-Cluster I was unsure of how to audit who was logging into which terminal
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20:11
<alkisg>
Ghidorah: `last` and `lastlog` tell you about login history
20:13
<Ghidorah>
alkisg: thanks!
20:14
<Pecker>
ok question
20:15
i set up ltsp on exisiting install..got dhcp wprkong, but when clients boot they cant login... they get 'no response from server' message. using ubuntu 10.04
20:15
<alkisg>
!ltsp-update-sshkeys
20:15
<ltsp>
alkisg: ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
20:21
<Pecker>
aha
20:21
i feel liek an idiot now..thanks
20:27
<vagrantc>
newer versions of LTSP aren't so annoying about IP addresses.
20:28
it was a stupid bug
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21:00
<alkisg>
knipwim: if one writes in /run (or in /var, whichever works) from the initramfs in gentoo, does it then get transferred to the real system?
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22:38
<vagrantc>
wrong date in changelog ... woops.
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23:02
<vagrantc>
and forgot to inclue an example lts.conf ...
23:04
an excuse to re-upload!