IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 6 December 2007   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<sadmin1>
i install ubuntu-gutsy with ltsp 5
00:00
all good
00:00
but when thin clients boot GUI wont come up
00:00
what i do with lts.conf
00:00
i did these change in lts.conf
00:00
[Default]
00:00
SERVER = 10.1.2.2
00:00
XSERVER = auto
00:00
X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "IMPS/2"
00:00
X_MOUSE_DEVICE = "/dev/psaux"
00:00
X_MOUSE_RESOLUTION = 400
00:00
X_MOUSE_BUTTONS = 3
00:00
USE_XFS = N
00:00
X_MODE_0 =1024x768
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00:00
<sadmin1>
X_HORZSYNC =30-50
00:00
X_VERTREFRESH =50-60
00:00
SCREEN_01 = startx
00:01
SCREEN_02 = shell
00:01
# SCREEN_07 = ldm
00:01
SOUND = Y
00:01
LOCAL_STORAGE = Y
00:01
SOUND_DAEMON = nasd # or esd
00:01
LOCAL_APPS = Y
00:01
any idea
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00:03
<sadmin1>
helo
00:17
guys where i need to put my lts.conf
00:17
in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ or in /var/lib/tftpboot/i386/etc
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00:51
<open_lad>
is anyone here????
00:51
why no resp[onse?? is this what IRC for??
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06:06
<vaisarger>
Hi! I joined in ltsp upstream branch... even if it is little scaring for me...
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06:17
<vaisarger>
I would like help in developing lts project (for my possibilities) ... any tip ?
06:17
<ogra>
vaisarger, that taems purpose is that distro people channel contributions to the branch, it would really be better to contact your distro person on the branch (as described in the mailing list post about the team on ltsp-developer) to channel your changes in
06:18
we dont want it to grow to much since everybody can destroy everything for all distros if he'S in that team
06:20
<vaisarger>
Ok... I'm new on that... You gave me a link, 2 days ago, but it was not clear for me how to collaborate, actually
06:21
<ogra>
find out who of the four members is your distro chap and provide a branch to him with your changes
06:22
<vaisarger>
Oh... sorry, I have to quit... see you later, if you want :)
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07:08
<vaisarger>
Hi! I came back. Who are developer distro team members? How I contact them?
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07:20
<ogra>
they are in the member list of the team
07:22
<vaisarger>
Ok. Maybe my question was wrong. Who is the person that is the Ubuntu7.10 team member?
07:22
<ogra>
me or sbalneav
07:23
<vaisarger>
Phieww. May I call you Oliver? I'm Vittorio.
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07:32
<vaisarger>
ogra: never mind... is there a piece of ltsp code that you suggest me I should work on ?
07:39
<ogra>
wherever you see place for enhancements :)
07:39
stgraber, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPClientShutdownReboot ;D
07:39
you wanted that iirc :)
07:40
now we need a little daemon on the session side that hooks into the logout dialog (needs patches to gnome-session)
07:44
<vaisarger>
very good... I will look at a little...
07:46
<ogra>
it takes a while to understand the structure of the code etc, try to get familiar with how it works etc ...
07:50
<vaisarger>
thanks for tip... If I ever manage to make that code better, how can I give you my enhancements?
07:52
<ogra>
make a branch that you either put on launchpad or that you host on your own server ...
07:52
point me to it :)
07:53
i'll review the changes and discuss them with you then (or directly accept, depending on the change ;) )
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08:15
<vaisarger>
ogra: https://code.launchpad.net/~vaisarger/ltsp/direct-shutdown is it ok?
08:16
<ogra>
vaisarger, sure, the comment above was directed to stgraber though ... but feel free to work on it
08:18
<vaisarger>
Ohhh... touche. :) Ok. I hope will manage to be useful to you ltsp people
08:21
<loather-work>
everyone's useful in some fashion. :)
08:22
<ogra>
sure :)
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08:29
<Gadi>
ogra: ping
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09:12
<ogra>
Gadi, pongl
09:13
<Gadi>
ogra: hey. I collected a lot of good juicy info wrt that problem of gnome not fully logging out
09:13
but, I think I need some help sorting it all out
09:13
<ogra>
attach all of it to the bug
09:13
<Gadi>
ok
09:14
<ogra>
(the new ldm one)
09:14
<Gadi>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/173239
09:14
that one?
09:18
<ogra>
yeah, ldm has only two bugs yet :)
09:18
thats the right one
09:18
<vaisarger>
Bye, bye, people! :9
09:18
<ogra>
ciao
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09:19
<Gadi>
ogra: my issues are a bit larger than the title of that bug
09:19
maybe I should open a new one
09:19
<ogra>
define larger
09:19
<Gadi>
well, here aer some of the things I have noticed:
09:20
1. After ldm makes its session connection to the server, the ssh socket becomes unresponsive to new ssh requests
09:20
This causes removable media not to work
09:20
<ogra>
not true
09:20
<Gadi>
and lots of add_fstab_entry processes hanging on the client
09:20
<ogra>
i worked with exactly this socket for the whole day
09:20
<Gadi>
Im not saying in *your* env
09:20
I am saying in *my* env
09:21
<ogra>
that is feisty ?
09:21
<Gadi>
gutsy
09:21
<ogra>
or gutsy
09:21
well
09:21
mine is essentially gutsy as well
09:21
<Gadi>
just bec *you* have no such bug, does not mean one does not exist
09:21
:)
09:21
<ogra>
i didnt say that
09:21
<Gadi>
and mine certainly exists
09:22
it could be some external networking/hardware thing
09:22
<ogra>
i just said that in a default install here it doesnt expose
09:22
<Gadi>
and not ldm
09:22
right
09:22
thats why I need help sorting it out
09:22
<ogra>
can you try to set up a virtualbox client on the server ?
09:22
that would rule out any network
09:22
(with tun/tap interface
09:22
)
09:23
<Gadi>
i have yet to set up such a thing
09:24
<ogra>
apt-get install virtualbox-ose (i think)
09:24
<Gadi>
but, I have been experimenting with ssh connections from other servers
09:24
and there is definitely an issue that is on the thin client side
09:24
let me give you another data point
09:25
when I turn *off* directx, the session hangs at "xrdb -merge"
09:25
<ogra>
yes, we talked about that
09:25
<Gadi>
and what I find is that in fact the ssh proxy cannot be connected to
09:25
and that is why it hangs
09:25
<ogra>
weird
09:26
not seen here either
09:26
how did you install the client there ...
09:26
<Gadi>
so, if you try to say, open a terminal and do: xrdb -display localhost:11 -query
09:26
it hangs
09:26
<ogra>
is that a fresh ltsp-build-client or a kind of upgrade ?
09:26
<Gadi>
fresh
09:26
the only non-standard thing is the IP of eth0 is 192.168.0.253
09:27
and not 254
09:27
<ogra>
and the server ?
09:27
upgrade or fresh
09:27
<Gadi>
everything was fresh install
09:27
<ogra>
ok
09:27
hmm
09:27
<Gadi>
now, one thing we did do was backed up our /etc/hosts
09:28
but, I have checked it and it looks right
09:28
but, that's one suspect I have
09:28
<ogra>
grep 127.0.1.1 /etc/hosts ??
09:29
<Gadi>
empty
09:29
<ogra>
aha
09:29
<Gadi>
what should that be?
09:29
<ogra>
127.0.0.1 localhost
09:29
127.0.1.1 laptop
09:29
<Gadi>
ok
09:29
<ogra>
my system is called laptop
09:29
<Gadi>
I had that at one point
09:29
I think
09:29
<ogra>
well, its a difference
09:29
<Gadi>
then, I noticed the etc hosts in the thin client had 127.0.0.2
09:29
and thought that was important
09:30
<ogra>
hmm
09:30
<Gadi>
personally, I don't understand the extra loopback ifaces
09:30
<ogra>
right, it has 127.0.0.2
09:31
Gadi, btw seen ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPClientShutdownReboot
09:32
did you check that your loopback interface is actually up on the clients ?
09:33
<Gadi>
yes, its up
09:33
wrt that wiki, I would prefer we do shutdown with Xatoms
09:33
its cleaner
09:33
<ogra>
well, nce thats ready indeed ...
09:33
*once
09:34
<Gadi>
right
09:34
<ogra>
which surely wont happen for gutsy :)
09:34
<Gadi>
but, its just as easy to make your listener daemon check xprop
09:34
<ogra>
so there its a valid alternative
09:34
<Gadi>
rather than keep a socket open
09:36
<ogra>
do you use the /etc/hosts file in the client chroot as well ?
09:37
i could imagine there is some discrepancy in the DNS info ssh has on the different sides
09:38
<Gadi>
everything is IP-based
09:38
<ogra>
hmm
09:39
<sonjag>
Hi Ogra and Gadi-- I have stale processes left in Fiesty a lot. I just looked at the Launchpad bug referred to above. I am thinking of installing it, but am just wondering if this is for Fiesty and if it would conflict with Xterminator? Thanks!
09:39
<ogra>
sonjag, thats a hardy package
09:39
dont use it on feisty
09:39
<Gadi>
yeah, dont install that
09:40
<sonjag>
Thanks... I still have stale bonobo and gnome processes causing me to reboot or clean them up manually. Xterminator isn't getting them. Any advice?
09:41
<ogra>
Gadi, what about the routing, where does the defaultroute on the client point to ?
09:41
<Gadi>
default server 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0
09:42
looks good
09:42
yeah, its weird
09:42
<ogra>
sonjag, well, fesity still has the python ldm, you could try to edit /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ldm yourself with the changes described in the bug (keep a copy of the original)
09:43
<loather-work>
what
09:43
what's the new LDM written in?
09:43
<ogra>
C
09:43
<loather-work>
nice; i'm guessing it's much faster than the python bloatware.
09:43
<ogra>
it is
09:43
<stgraber>
ogra: cool, thanks for the wikipage
09:43
<ogra>
but a lot less flexible
09:43
<Gadi>
see for me, I think my issue is related because I think the ssh socket craps out
09:44
<ogra>
i dont understand why though
09:44
and i've never seen something like that
09:44
<Gadi>
which causes the sshd not to be able to die properly
09:44
yeah, me neither
09:45
<loather-work>
how is it less flexible? I suppose I need to install ubuntu somewhere and create a chroot.
09:45
my current chroot is one that i've stolen from a 6.10 installation.
09:46
<ogra>
loather-work, well, did you see what i just said to sonjag ? with C you need to compile the stuff etc ... with python you can quickly advise people to try a fix for example
09:46
its a lot less flexible ...
09:47
contributing to a scripted app is way easier than to C code which is complicated and compley
09:47
*complex
09:47
<loather-work>
oh, right. for me i guess that wouldn't be a problem since i'm a C developer, but for most i suppose it is a bit more difficult
09:47
<ogra>
but neither of that justifies 10x longer app startup times ... so we went for C
09:48
<loather-work>
yeah, the startup time is killing me on some of my workstations
09:48
<ogra>
try gutsy :)
09:48
its the fastest ltsp5 we have
09:49
<loather-work>
i had planned on getting a couple of the ltsp 100 terminals from disklessworkstations.com, but they're significantly slower than the e150s or t1225s
09:49
<ogra>
Gadi, do you have /dev/random (and whatever else ssh needs)
09:50
<loather-work>
and it's slow on a t1225, so i didn't want it to end up taking forever to boot :p
09:50
i'll have to try out this gusty.
09:50
i still want to properly integrate it with fedora, but that'll take a lot of time, i'm afraid :\
09:50
<ogra>
you dont want the ltsp 1000 term ...
09:50
its no fun
09:51
its great as kiosk system that only runs one app or so
09:51
but no fun with a desktop ...
09:51
(and there is no proper driver for the soundcard)
09:52
<loather-work>
yeah, i have some shipping/receiving stations that run nothing but a firefox and a super light window manager
09:52
<ogra>
loather-work, warren works on it, there should be code from fedora enetering upstream soon
09:52
<loather-work>
bolting it to the back of the monitor would be nice.
09:53
<ogra>
i use mine as router/firewall :)
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09:53
<loather-work>
ah, i haven't met warren
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09:56
<sonjag>
ogra: I found the "kill -1" command. I will change that to -9. However, I can't find anywhere that has the cmd[i++]. I'm guessing that this is a different code structure between Python and C. If you have time, can you send what the change would look like in Python? No rush. Thanks!
09:57
<ogra>
yeah, thats C vs .py i have to dig up the old code on my server
09:58
<sonjag>
ogra, whenever... we're running quite well... I just reboot when I see swapping (and I can prevent if I look for stale processing, but rebooting is quicker :)
09:58
ogra, Thanks!
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10:00
<ogra>
sonjag, change: 'kill -1 $PPID'] to be: 'kill -9 ${PPID}']
10:01
its around line 195 in my code
10:01
not sure where that moved to if you use the version from sbalneav
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10:08
<r3zon8>
is there a howto for widescreen resolutions on lts4.2?
10:10
<Gadi>
r3zon8: widescreens will depend on the modeline (X_MODE_0 in lts.conf) and what the driver is capable of
10:10
many drivers are not capable of widescreen modes
10:11
<ogra>
Gadi, did you see my last question ?
10:11
<Gadi>
I see it now - I have all the bits that ubuntu pulls in
10:12
/dev/random included
10:12
<ogra>
in the running client i mean
10:12
random and urandom are used by ssh
10:12
<Gadi>
root@ltsp:~# ls -l /dev/*random
10:12
crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 1, 8 Dec 6 08:50 /dev/random
10:12
crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 1, 9 Dec 6 08:50 /dev/urandom
10:12
<ogra>
ok
10:14
<Gadi>
ogra: what are the args to l-b-c to build in a non-std location. Maybe I'll build another image and try it on one machine
10:14
that someone is not working on
10:14
<ogra>
sudo ltsp-build-client --chroot=test
10:15
<Gadi>
ok - thats not gonna adversely update anything that would affect normal users, right?
10:22
<ninkendo>
Does anyone here know anything about using LTSP in conjunction with Cisco's DHCP snooping feature?
10:22
It tends to break LTSP completely... I was wondering if there's a patch written for it
10:23
I have information from a support contract with cisco that says the thin client is not behaving to spec with regards to DHCP requests
10:23
and the snoop feature is thus dropping its request packets
10:34
<Gadi>
ninkendo: what spec is that?
10:35
<ninkendo>
RFC 2131 http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2131.html
10:36
<loather-work>
what, the pxe clients?
10:36
or is this post-boot?
10:36
<ninkendo>
basically the dhcp requests/replies are sent through a cisco relay
10:36
this is after it gets the kernel over pxe
10:36
so that dhcp works
10:36
<loather-work>
what, like a helper-address on the switch
10:36
?
10:36
<ninkendo>
but then the kernel boots, and it has to get dhcp again
10:36
and cisco's telling us that the thin client is supposed to reset the giaddr field
10:36
but instead it's leaving it set
10:37
so the cisco snooping feature just drops the packet
10:37
and then the thin clients doesn't get an address, and thus can't boot
10:37
<loather-work>
'cause i have an ltsp setup here using that same method (helper-address on the vlan) and it's working beautifully
10:37
<Gadi>
thats in the 2nd request or the 2nd reply?
10:37
<ninkendo>
the request
10:37
<Gadi>
ah, ok
10:37
which ver of LTSP?
10:37
<ninkendo>
apparently (it's news to me) the DHCP request has a giaddr field
10:37
I thought only the replies have it
10:37
whatever comes by default in gutsy
10:38
so pretty recent
10:38
<Gadi>
ok. thats LTSP5
10:38
it uses the kernel ipconfig to generate the request
10:38
irc
10:38
<ninkendo>
http://www.fathersfate.com.mx/wordpress/2005/11/02/linux-terminal-server-project-ltsp/
10:38
<Gadi>
iirc, that is
10:38
<ninkendo>
that page seems to have some good info, but it's in spanish
10:39
<loather-work>
im guessing no hablas espanol, eh?
10:39
<ninkendo>
heh
10:39
http://www.fathersfate.com.mx/wordpress/2007/02/15/dhcp-snooping-en-ciscoubuntu/
10:39
er, actually that page
10:39
<Gadi>
i was going to say...
10:39
<ninkendo>
http://www.fathersfate.com.mx/wordpress/2007/02/15/dhcp-snooping-en-ciscoubuntu/ here's the translated
10:39
but I'm not using a linux dhcp server
10:40
we're using an adonis appliance for that... and just setting the proper values
10:40
<loather-work>
"hay una chingadera que se llama DHCP Snooping" --> "there's this fucking thing called DHCP snooping"
10:40
<ninkendo>
I wonder if there's anything I can set in the client's dhclient.conf that will help it
10:40
hahaha
10:40
<loather-work>
i'm guessing they've had trouble with it :)
10:41
<Gadi>
ninkendo: thats not where it is set
10:41
it is in the initramfs
10:41
<ninkendo>
oh, yeah you're right
10:41
since it hasn't gotten the root filesystem yet
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10:43
<Gadi>
look in: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/ltsp-nbd
10:47
http://www.filewatcher.com/p/udev-042-197.ppc.rpm.663517/usr/share/doc/packages/udev/README.klibc.ipconfig.html
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10:47
<Gadi>
try passing the long device name as a kernel arg
10:47
IPOPTS
10:48
you may not need to modify the code at all
10:51
<ninkendo>
man, that's a lot of useful information
10:51
I'm trying to figure out how IPOPTS is getting set
10:51
it appears it's getting it from the kernel command line
10:51
<Gadi>
its a kernel arg
10:51
it can be passed
10:51
yeah
10:51
<ninkendo>
so I would assume that the giaddr field is somewhere in IPOPTS
10:51
<Gadi>
edit your pxelinux.cfg/default file
10:52
is that not the gateway ip addr?
10:52
<ninkendo>
yeah
10:52
I think this is what it's trying to do...
10:52
<Gadi>
look half way down that page
10:52
<ninkendo>
my guess at least
10:52
<Gadi>
the line with all the colons
10:52
<ninkendo>
It thinks the gateway it received in the first dhcp lease (during the PXE phase) may be on a different subnet
10:52
<Gadi>
thats what you need to pass: IPOPTS=<client-ip>:<server-ip>:<gw-ip>:<netmask>:<hostname>:<device>:<autoconf>
10:53
<ninkendo>
so it's passing it as a kernel command line arg
10:53
hmm
10:53
I don't see anything of the sort in there
10:53
I see "ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash"
10:53
<Gadi>
right
10:54
by default, it autoconfigures, I think
10:54
<ninkendo>
could I do something like IPOPTS=::0.0.0.0::::
10:54
and it'll autoconfigure everything but gwaddr?
10:54
<Gadi>
try it
10:54
<ninkendo>
but wait, that wouldn't make sense...
10:54
IPOPTS would be what it tries to configure itself with
10:55
<Gadi>
try:
10:55
<ninkendo>
I want it to not send the giaddr field
10:55
<Gadi>
::0.0.0.0::::dhcp
10:55
or something like that
10:55
or maybe no gw-ip
10:55
I would tinker
10:55
;)
10:55
<ninkendo>
right
10:55
thanks
10:57
<Gadi>
good luck
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12:01
<Grejao>
can i install ltsp to be my terminal server and install windows applications with wine to run over ltsp for sessions?
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12:13
<cliebow>
Grejao:you can try..by and large windows apps just dont work..
12:14
<ninkendo>
well, it looks like no matter what I provide as IPOPTS, it seems to be sending an invalid request
12:14
if I set a static address in IPOPTS, it works of course
12:15
I honestly think there's a bug in klibc (which provides ipconfig) that produces non-compliant behavior
12:15
<Grejao>
cliebow, for example Lotus notes,,, i use Lotus notes at my station with Wine.
12:16
<cliebow>
Grejao, i just have never had any luck with it..
12:17
<Gadi>
ninkendo: you could try replacing it with dhclient or dhcpcd, reroll the initramfs, and ltsp-update-kernels
12:17
of course, make sure dhclient or dhcpcd is pulled into the initramfs
12:18
or email the klibc guys about it
12:18
maybe they know
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12:26
<joebake1>
sadmin1: I tried to get ltsp5 working but couldn't.
12:26
...on gutsy
12:27
The remote clients boot off the network but then they sit as an initramfs prompt.
12:27
The box was origionally ubuntu, then installed edubuntu-desktop.
12:27
<cliebow>
perhaps your interface isnt configured...so dhcp doesnt start]
12:28
ohh..
12:28
<joebake1>
DHCP works, pxe starts working. Busybox shows up on the desktop station
12:28
<cliebow>
is it listewning on port 200 where nbd is?
12:28
2000
12:29
<joebake1>
I'll check with netstat.
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12:29
<Petaris>
Hi all
12:29
I have an AMD Geode LX800 board that I am trying to get working
12:30
<joebake1>
nope. netstat -a | grep 2000 doesn't show anything. Thanks for the tip. I'll look into nbd configuration. cliebow.
12:30
<cliebow>
look in inetd.conf??
12:30
<Petaris>
xorg doesn't like the chipset apparently
12:30
I tried the nsc driver but no luck
12:31
Does the "geode" driver still exist or is nsc the only option?
12:31
<cliebow>
Petaris, you may have to set the display in lts.conf..lemme look for a sec..
12:32
<johnny>
ndb's only gonna show up when it's needed
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12:37
<cliebow>
johnny..but but...tftp shows listenng and that runs thru inetd
12:37
<johnny>
hmm.. suprised.. guess i'm not used to running anything through inetd
12:37
nothing i've done over the past years runs through it
12:38
<loather-work>
inetd is awesome.
12:38
<cliebow>
johnny.. i have nbd running thru inet on port 2000 and 2001 and they both show listening....
12:39
Petaris..you triewd the vesa driver i suppose
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12:41
<wanie>
cyberorg, hi!
12:42
cyberorg, kiwi-ltsp is so cool! I installed it with just four commands starting my thinclient an it works verry fine! :)
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12:43
<cyberorg>
wanie, wow, glad to know it worked fine for you :)
12:43
wanie, 128mb client?
12:45
<wanie>
cyberorg, but i haven a problem... as thin client i use an PC with enougth hardware ressourced, and sometime after the login the screen is frozen and have pink links ower the complete screen but i can move the mouse :(
12:46
<cyberorg>
wanie, can you take a picture?
12:46
<wanie>
no my old thinclient doesn' t work with ltsp 5... it have 160 MB but just an 266 MHz cpu
12:46
<cyberorg>
ok, so it worked on one client but doesnt on other?
12:46
<wanie>
yes one moment please...
12:47
yes on my big workstation with it boots up but then the screen is frozen
12:48
my diskless thinclient (an igel Win Net III) it doesn' t boot
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12:52
<Petaris>
cliebow: no, I tried the vga driver though
12:55
I will try the vesa driver now
12:56
<cyberorg>
wanie, can you open bug reports for both of your clients describing hardware config(including vga) and the problem you faced
12:57
also attach the picture of both the client where it stops
12:58
wanie, link to bug tracker here http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/KIWI-LTSP me got to run it is past midnight here
13:03
<wanie>
strange, befor i rebootet my server after the installation i had always the bug, but recently i rebootet the server and now it works without problems until now...
13:04
can the first reboot after the lstp installation be the solution?
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13:07
<wanie>
i know my enlish is bad, but I rigorous me ;)
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13:12
<scrapbunny>
i am trying to figure out what is maxing out my cpu's on my dell poweredge 1750 server. i set system monitor to show all processes but i still do not see anything that should by maxing out the cpus.
13:14
<cliebow>
Petaris, Any joy??
13:15
<ninkendo>
Gadi: I commented out the line in klibc that sets the giaddr on DHCPREQUEST, and rebuilt my ramdisk with the updated ipconfig binary... it works great now.
13:15
<johnny>
scrapbunny, intall htop
13:15
<scrapbunny>
any ideas on how i can find what is causing the problem? should i just try a fresh install?
13:15
<johnny>
and then run it from the cli
13:15
<ninkendo>
Gadi: it's an ugly hack all things considered... I'll have to see if I can write a more long-term fix and send a patch
13:16
<scrapbunny>
thanks johnny - i will go try it
13:16
<johnny>
it'll give you nice graphs, and you can sort by all sorts of things
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13:21
<johnny>
that's what i use to make sure firefox isn't being so mean
13:21
i just login remotely every once in awhile and kill runaway firefoxes
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13:23
<scrapbunny>
sounds great, i'll check back in after i run it
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13:36
<Petaris>
cliebow: no, vesa didn't work either
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13:40
<cliebow>
Petaris, Adam Drake was working on a geode based..and had an lts.conf which specified higher video settings..perhaps 1024x768 (cant rememebr) can t hurt to give it a whirl..you just get a black screen??
13:40
<Petaris>
yeah
13:41
I have it set to 1024x768
13:41
only get black scrrens
13:41
er, screens
13:41
even on tty1
13:43
<cliebow>
can you get to a shell and get a pci id for the vid card?
13:44
maybe googling that would turn something up..
13:44
<Petaris>
not with this driver
13:44
sec
13:44
let me change something
13:47
ok
13:47
I have a shell
13:48
I did an lspci
13:48
Comes up as AMD Geode LX Video
13:49
VGA Compatable
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14:06
<scrapbunny>
ok i am running htop but when i try to kill a process it does seem to close
14:07
<johnny>
i don't use the interface to kill, because the keybindings interfere with my DE
14:07
i kill outside of it i guess
14:07
oh wait.. i forgot, that started working for me :)
14:07
but before that, i just exited and then killed them
14:08
or use another window
14:08
it's just a nicer display than regular top
14:10
so did anybody manage to make a working deb off that autologin patch?
14:12
<logyati>
hello
14:12
i opened a xdmcp session on a thin client, how do i open a xdialog in the client from the server? i mean, i have an user at thiclient and i want him to see a dialog for a reason, and the server should sent it... im trying to export the display but the connection is being refused
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14:54
<bartolomeo80>
anybody knows how to enable sound in thin clients
14:55
<Petaris>
sound=true
14:55
in lts.conf
14:55
but I think its on by default now
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15:14
<cliebow>
Petaris lspci -v will teel you what bus id..lspci -n will tell you pci id of that bus id
15:14
<lns>
anyone else experiencing runaway Nautilus procs consuming 100% CPU when users log in/out of LTSP?
15:14
<cliebow>
crapolaa..
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15:41
<johnny>
lns, yes.. known bug
15:41
login no, but logout yes
15:42
perhaps after logout
15:42
<lns>
johnny, is there a bug filed that I can take a look at?
15:42
can't find any in lp
15:43
<johnny>
i didn't look
15:43
ogra would know
15:43
<lns>
it's pretty bad...i have it on multiple ltsp servers, the whole system slows to a crawl multiple times a day
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15:47
<lns>
ogra, ping?
15:48
I completely purged all compiz packages, just in case that could be causing any issues...
15:49
<johnny>
perhaps, but that's not this issue
15:50
<lns>
I recall seeing someone giving a workaround of 'killall nautilus' upon logout (from a script) but I don't remember where
15:50
not that this is an elegant approach to fix the issue, but at least i won't have to worry about slow systems in the meantime
15:50
<johnny>
xterminator
15:50
try the 0.1-4 package
15:51
not the .2
15:53
<lns>
url?
15:54
<johnny>
uhmm.. search for it? :)
15:54
i don't have it anymore
15:57
<lns>
i did...can't find it :(
15:57
google shows me a bunch of stuff about spam prevention
15:58
<johnny>
moquist xterminator
15:58
ry that
16:00Guaraldo has left #ltsp
16:01
<lns>
wow, looks nice. i remember looking at this before, with a bunch of stale user dbus procs left over (although not really causing an issue)
16:02
johnny, have you used xterminator, and if so, does it seem to play nice with ltsp?
16:02
<johnny>
no i haven't yet
16:03
<moquist>
lns: http://ppa.launchpad.net/moquist/ubuntu feisty main
16:03
<johnny>
going to eventually
16:03
<moquist>
lns: apt-get install xterminator=0.1-4
16:03
lns: the 0.1-4 implementation is messy but sufficient (for feisty)
16:03
<lns>
moquist, I'm running Gutsy AMD64...
16:03
<johnny>
or gutsy ?
16:03
<moquist>
neither 0.1-4 nor 0.2 works in gutsy
16:03
<lns>
:(
16:03
<moquist>
what I really need to do is debug 0.2 for both feisty & gutsy
16:04
lns: it's python so the arch doesn't matter
16:04
lns: any help you can provide would be awesome :)
16:04
<lns>
moquist, ahh. Well, IANAP unfortunately, what would you like me to do? Seeing is that I'm 30min away from my site, but I can install remotely...
16:05
if something goes wrong I'd hate to have to drive all the way down to fix stuff
16:05
<moquist>
lns: you don't want to mess with xterminator on gutsy yet, then.
16:05
<lns>
moquist, check. =)
16:06
You'd think that Gnome/X11...uhm...anything else would do process checking after a user logs out...
16:06
<moquist>
One would think, wouldn't one?
16:06
<lns>
heh
16:06
<moquist>
Sorta. It's more complex than that.
16:06
<lns>
I'm sure it is, more than I understand anyway
16:06
<moquist>
How would any of those things know which processes should be left around and which ones shouldn't?
16:07
<lns>
maybe ones that were launched via logging in, that are dependent on a window manager..?
16:07
<moquist>
xterminator assumes 1) the world isn't perfect 2) system administrators need to be able to make the world seem perfect 3) none of your users need to let persistent processes run when they're not logged in 4) none of your users need to log in more than once at a time.
16:08
<lns>
Seems fair
16:08
<moquist>
the "perfect" stuff is in reference to the fact that xterminator is a huge kludge. The right thing is to fix the b0rk3n code that keeps running after it should've stopped. But we need something NOW.
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16:09
<lns>
moquist, i agree wholeheartedly.. nothing will ever be perfect, but there needs to be 'cleanup' to make sure the stuff that isn't, is still thrown away.
16:09
<moquist>
lns: sure; I was just covering my ax in case ogra shows up ;)
16:09
<lns>
;)
16:09
<johnny>
cuz ogra wont' tawke something that will kill any perhaps screen or nohup sessions
16:10
you could try that moquist? skip any screen or nohup sessions?
16:10
<vagrantc>
moquist: is there a way to per-user disable the killing spree?
16:10
<moquist>
johnny: sure, we can make xterminator work however we want. :)
16:10
<vagrantc>
because that sounds like a really useful concept, as imperfect as it may be.
16:10
<moquist>
johnny: xterminator should never be installed by default; it doesn't even belong in main
16:10
<johnny>
i really need something that will actually kill procs on power cycle , sadly i can't get acpid to do what it should
16:11
<moquist>
vagrantc: there isn't yet, other than to check for UID=0
16:11
vagrantc: but that's also a great idea.
16:11
IIRC, I have comments in the code suggesting a conf file that adds exactly these features. :)
16:11
johnny: I find that the lack of electricity really does 'em in during a power cycle. :-D
16:11
<lns>
I think I saw this in http://www.mail-archive.com/edubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/msg02182.html .. heh
16:12
<vagrantc>
moquist: at freegeek, we have a handful of users who need their screen sessions to run persistantly, but most users would benefit greatly from something like what you described
16:12
<moquist>
vagrantc: Yep.
16:12
<johnny>
aha.. freegeek
16:13
<lns>
I don't want to sound completely naive when it comes to issues like this, but the plain simple fact is that there are SO MANY apps that misbehave in X...when a user logs out, there should be some sort of default action to search & destroy all lingering processes after a user logs out of his/her last session.
16:13
<moquist>
lns: Well, that's what we're trying to do here. The currently implementations just have bugs. :)
16:13
lns: Well, OK. Not default.
16:14
lns: But you see the validity of arguing that the right thing to do is fix the bugs rather than enable them, right?
16:14
<lns>
moquist, well maybe even more specifically, ones that directly related to the session the user was logged into (as to not step on any other processes that might be owned by that user that aren't related to their GUI session)
16:14
moquist, of COURSE we want to fix the bugs
16:14
<vagrantc>
johnny: aha?
16:14
<moquist>
lns: INSTEAD OF enabling them. :)
16:15
<lns>
moquist, enabling them meaning what, allowing them to still have bugs and band-aiding them with xterminator?
16:15
<johnny>
a friend of mine might move to portland
16:15
and volunteer
16:16
he helped me with my initial ltsp setup at red emma's
16:16
<moquist>
lns: I'm definitely no Xpert, but it seems like one could make a very strong case that if the X server dies there ought to be some specified set of related processes that are forcibly killed (if necessary).
16:16
<johnny>
where we are looking to setup something similiar to freegeek
16:16
<vagrantc>
johnny: ah, well, feel free to drop in #freegeek
16:16
<moquist>
lns: yes, enabling as-in band-aiding so it takes the pressure off to fix them
16:16
<lns>
moquist, depends on your perspective.
16:16
<moquist>
[nod]
16:17
<lns>
moquist, how about extending functionality beyond local syslog and e-mail alerting hung procs that were killed? maybe to a bugtracker?
16:17
<vagrantc>
the other issue is you can't rely on the process being part of the current session- because misbehaving processes from an uncleanly logged out session need to be killed even more importantly
16:18
<lns>
true
16:19
I'm very surprised that there isn't some piece of inherent code somewhere in X (or even Gnome) that deals with this kind of thing already...
16:20
<moquist>
I tried to implement a daemon that traversed the process tree up to the highest-level process owned by the same user, and then watched for /proc/<that-process>/exe to change. It would then wait 30 seconds and kill every process still owned by that user. But it periodically killed all my users simultaneously, so I, er, commented that out. 8-o
16:20
xterminator 0.1-4 still contains that code.
16:20
FWIW.
16:20
I'd love to fix it.
16:20
<lns>
hehe
16:20
yeah that'd be a pain
16:20
<vagrantc>
lns: problem is that X processes can start programs that are not X code.
16:21
<johnny>
lns, because ltsp stuff the only place this issue is happening?
16:21
<lns>
johnny, i highly doubt that
16:21
<johnny>
most people run stuff on their own PC
16:21
and when they logout, processes die
16:21
like on mine :)
16:22
<moquist>
and if any processes hang around, the user reboots or something, and everything gets better.
16:22
this problem is just exacerbated in LTSP.
16:22
<lns>
vagrantc, ok.. what about a watcher process launches during a login, tracks all processes related to that session and user (by time launched, perhaps?), and cleans up any lingering after logout?
16:22
<vagrantc>
lns: what if the session never logs out?
16:23
i.e. an unclean logout
16:23
<lns>
vagrantc, hmm
16:24
well there's still a hook in the system somewhere that realizes that a user (whether x, vt, vnc, etc) is not logged in anymore, right?
16:24
<vagrantc>
there are many imperfect ways of getting that information
16:24
<lns>
hmm
16:24
<vagrantc>
if that were possible, it wouldn't be nearly so difficult to handle the issue at hand :)
16:25
<lns>
well I'm getting a better grip on how things work, then... I hope I can be of help to fix this, even if it's only to provide the perspective of someone who doesn't have their hands in the code all the time
16:26
or at all
16:26
;)
16:28
what's at the most basic level of someone being "logged in" (regardless of method) ? Is it a running process? a /proc entry, lockfile...those are the things i'd think to look at to get a handle on user presence
16:29
that you could hook into, to determine whether they are active on the system, or the processes are lingering after clean (or unclean) logout
16:29
i hope i'm not just babbling nonsensical (to a programmer) crap here
16:31
I'd almost think that the kernel itself has some sort of knowledge regarding who is active and what are just stale processes left behind (like zombie procs, but not so critical to the system)
16:31
I dunno
16:34
obviously parent processes would be a good place to go, but as moquist said, it doesn't work all the time - maybe it's something trivial to fix in the code for xterminator.
16:40
<vagrantc>
lns: there really is no way to truely determine activity
16:41
lns: or staleness ...
16:41
<lns>
ok, now we're getting more philosophical - more like my ballpark. ;)
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16:42
<lns>
so...i guess the question is, at WHATEVER level, be it kernel, or init, or gnome, etc...is there a way to create a presence for a user?
16:42cliebow has joined #ltsp
16:42
<vagrantc>
*typically* a process is started by a logged in user, and you *might* be able to trace the history of that process back to a particular process ...
16:43
but it could also be started from cron
16:43
<lns>
vagrantc, what about pam ?
16:43
does that not have sufficient evidence of someone who is logged in, or is it just plain auth and then let go?
16:44
<vagrantc>
sounded like moquist's idea of tracking from the process tree would be the best approach ... presuming you can control which the initial login process is ...
16:44
lns: pam doesn't really handle logout
16:44
<lns>
what does, then?
16:44
<vagrantc>
lns: there might be hooks to handle it, but if those hooks don't get run, when something goes wrong, when you most likely need to do cleanup ...
16:45
<lns>
hmm
16:45
<vagrantc>
the issue is you need to figure out a way to know when something is wrong ... all of the proposed ideas work great when everything is going as it should.
16:45
but the issue is to figure out when something has gone wrong.
16:45
<lns>
that's true...there are plenty of cases of logged-in users with runaway procs
16:45
that are legitimately logged in
16:45
<johnny>
like firefox
16:45
evil thing
16:46
<lns>
heh
16:46
seriously
16:46
<johnny>
actually, i'm noticing the problem less on gutsy
16:46
<lns>
this is intriguing
16:46
<johnny>
err less since recent updates
16:46
that is
16:46
my processes have only spiked really high when it comes to java_vm
16:47
<lns>
i wonder about any possible hooks with 'nice'
16:47
but there's no inherent 'nice' for the kernel if you don't specify it when running the program explicitly, is there..?
16:48
<vagrantc>
your default nice is whatever the parent process was run as
16:48
<lns>
ok
16:49
<vagrantc>
but using nice values would be an ugly hack
16:50
<lns>
agreed on the values - i wasn't sure if there was any inherit hooks in nice to actually determine whether a proc was actively running inside a users' parent (active) session or not
16:50
<vagrantc>
all nice values are for is to limit the destructiveness of long-running processes
16:52
<lns>
i guess it all really does come down to the ultimate 'parent process' when a user logs in
16:54
i wonder how m$ does it... ;)
16:54
<vagrantc>
what you *might* consider implementing ... is a "master process" that's used for login ... and if when the master process logs in, it checks for any processes running as children of previous master processes and mercilessly kills them ...
16:54
<lns>
hmmm
16:55
sounds completely logical to me FWIW
16:55
<vagrantc>
i'm not sure if there are ways for processes to sneak outside the domain of their parent process ... if that happened regularly, this would essentially be useless
16:56
<lns>
process numbers never change, correct? meaning, when a process is launched, it never would somehow change proc numbers (unless restarted of course)?
16:56
<vagrantc>
it might spawn a new process and die
16:57
<lns>
but that could be tracked through the 'master process' probably
16:57
<vagrantc>
in theory
16:57
i'm not process guru
16:57* lns isn't either
16:57
<vagrantc>
i feel fairly confident, if this issue were simple, it would be solved by now
16:59
<lns>
I think I'm naive enough to still think that someone with little/no knowledge of the intricacies/details of the problem might be able to shed light on it... :)
17:00
it just seems logical to think that there could, in theory, be a 'master process' launched by PAM/etc. that would take over the "presence" of a user.
17:00
It's way beyond LTSP, I'm sure...but that's got to work at some level
17:00
<vagrantc>
as long as you always log out properly
17:00
<lns>
well that's the thing
17:00
<vagrantc>
but the most important problem is when you don't log out properly.
17:01
as said earlier (moquist) ... LTSP makes the problem more noticeable
17:02
<lns>
if the process could spawn another process (or whatever else seems more logical) that even if a user's session gets killed ugly-style, that proc would die along with it
17:02
and the master would see this
17:02
I dunno, i'm talking out of my *ss at this point ;)
17:03
<vagrantc>
it would probably be worth trying to implement some sort of wrapper login that: 1) kills all remaining processes started by a child of itself, and 2) kills processes that are children of a previous login that weren't properly terminated
17:03
1 would happen on logout, and 2 would happen on login
17:03
<lns>
yeah!
17:04
<vagrantc>
and of course, only handle processes still owned by that user
17:04
<lns>
of course, if LTSP is a focal-point for stuff like this, it could be implemented directly into ldm..right?
17:04
<vagrantc>
i.e. if you sudo or su to a different user, it ignores that part of the process tree
17:04
lns: you could write a wrapper and point LDM_REMOTECMD to it
17:05
<lns>
ooo...spicy =p
17:05
i like the ideas, even if i have very little technical ability to put it into motion
17:07
the only thing i could see is that runaway procs during 'su/sudo' would still be an issue..but it's definitely a starting point
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17:10
<lns>
heh...as i kill a nautilus process from a staff user remotely taking up 100% CPU..
17:11
<vagrantc>
the important thing is to handle the majority of problems to give you more time to only deal with the unusual exceptions
17:11
(without introducing more problems)
17:15
<lns>
for sure, any idea of a master-process we talked about would need to track (like in xterminator) what it finds and kills, and would ideally want to report it for investigation
17:16* lns shivers as he thinks about the "Internet Explorer encountered a problem and must be closed. Report to Microsoft?"
17:17* vagrantc thinks it should be totally non-interactive with an optional log
17:17
<lns>
Good idea, but should never burden users with it. I think the fact that we're talking about open source would not send chills down the backs of users (at least not mine)
17:17* lns agrees
17:18
<lns>
what an elegant band-aid! ;)
17:18
<vagrantc>
i should probably take a look at xterminator ... since it sounds like some of the code already exists ... and maybe just adapting or some re-writing is all that's needed ...
17:18
<lns>
a band-aid that seeks out other wounds
17:18
I'll help with whatever is needed
17:19
I'd love to see something like this take life and possibly help other projects/bugs at the same time
17:20
<vagrantc>
main thing is you need to control what gets run at login ... which is easy to do with LDM ... it would (maybe) be impractical to make it the default shell
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19:18* vagrantc wonders about wiki.ltsp.org
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20:49
<mathesis>
se edgarin
20:49
you have installed ltsp5 or ltsp 4.2?
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21:00
<edgarin>
mathesis, hi!! :D
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21:12
<petre>
evening all
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22:05
<johnny>
aha
22:05
fgiraldeau_, howdy
22:19
<fgiraldeau_>
hi there
22:20
Are you the autologin guy?
22:20
<johnny>
yes
22:20
ogra wanted to see if you could perhaps minimize your patch
22:20
so it could be accepted
22:20
<fgiraldeau_>
It can't like this? Humm...
22:20
<johnny>
he said you changed more
22:20
than necessary
22:21
i was going to email you, but your email is not on your page
22:21
i tried to jabber you, but you weren't there
22:21
<fgiraldeau_>
I put a comment for another bug that I saw at the same time, but to be coherent, I think this is barely minimal.
22:21
I changed about 15 lines of code
22:22
https://launchpad.net/~francis-giraldeau/
22:22
<johnny>
i also had some trouble with your deb
22:22
it was looking for debian versions
22:22
<fgiraldeau_>
Look at the confirmed e-mail
22:22
you can recompile it from the sources if needed.
22:23
<johnny>
oh lol
22:23
i didn't think to look over there :)
22:23
since all the other stuff was in the other section
22:23
<fgiraldeau_>
https://launchpad.net/~francis-giraldeau/+archive
22:23
<johnny>
ssh keys, jabber, wiki ,etc
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22:23
<johnny>
i had trouble making package
22:23
<fgiraldeau_>
apt-get build-dep ltsp
22:23
<johnny>
i've been using gentoo for awhile now
22:23
<fgiraldeau_>
then apt-get source ltsp
22:24
<johnny>
so this whole packaging thing is weird for me
22:24
<fgiraldeau_>
and dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
22:24
<johnny>
i read the docs for packaging for ubuntu, but it wasn't very concise
22:24
yes.. i do have fakeroot :)
22:24
<fgiraldeau_>
From my point of view, it's gentoo that is wired ;)
22:25
<johnny>
well i'm used to patching stuff for it
22:25
very easy
22:25
just add 1 line to the ebuild
22:25
and that's it
22:25
not all these steps
22:25
<fgiraldeau_>
Hep, nothing is perfect.
22:25
<johnny>
truly
22:25
it has other disadvantages for sure
22:26
but i did learn alot about gnu/linux internals from it
22:26
which has been advantageous when helping folks with other distros
22:26
except for the packaging aspect :)
22:26
<fgiraldeau_>
I will write to ogra about the patch. I could remove lines added to inform the user that he missed something, but I think that it's part of the bug.
22:27
<johnny>
i think that should be for another bug
22:27
seperate patch
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22:27
<fgiraldeau_>
what the hell is that
22:27
<johnny>
also talk to sbalneav about it, since he could certainly integrate it upstream
22:27
netsplit
22:27
it'll resolve itself shortly
22:28
<fgiraldeau_>
ok
22:28
<johnny>
happens often on bigger IRC networks
22:28
or really.. on any network that involves more than 1 server in my experience :)
22:28
they are now in an #ltsp that contains only them
22:28
<fgiraldeau_>
What about usb key? does it works for you?
22:28
<johnny>
yes
22:28
<fgiraldeau_>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltspfs/+bug/174585
22:28
<johnny>
after following some steps in autologin bug
22:29
<fgiraldeau_>
I do have a strange behavior.
22:29
The key is never unmounted.
22:30
<johnny>
hmm.. aha.. i do have the behaviour where there is no unmount option that does anything
22:30
via the mount icon on the desktop
22:30
but they do work
22:30
hmm. now if only i was near my thin clients
22:31
you always come in at the weird times :)
22:31
good times for me usually tho :)
22:31
<fgiraldeau_>
you mean that the key is umounted? You saw that?
22:31
<johnny>
no, keys are not unmounted
22:31
iirc
22:31
<fgiraldeau_>
Well, I'm going to sleep very soon. The evening is over
22:31
<johnny>
oh
22:31
that is sad
22:31
when will you return
22:31
i was gonna go over there :)
22:32
<fgiraldeau_>
I don't like much IRC, but I will fire it up tomorrow morning. Will try to send new patch to ogra and get it's feedback fast.
22:33
And see if usb key has a bad bug
22:33
ltspfsd in fact
22:33
Why do I get TCP checksum error? So bad.
22:34
Anyway, take care, and have a nice day. See you soon.
22:34
<johnny>
bye
22:34
you too
22:34
for sure :)
22:34
<fgiraldeau_>
bye!
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22:43
<mathesis>
It is necessary to install dhcp3-server in ltsp5?
22:44
<johnny>
do you have an /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ?
22:44
if so, then you prolly already have one
22:44
i use dnsmasq instead tho
22:45
so i skip the normal one
22:45
and the tftpd as well
22:45
works pretty well
22:46
<mathesis>
i have not /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
22:47
I do not have the file /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf
22:50
<johnny>
which one did you install?
22:50
ltsp-server or ltsp-server-standalone?
22:50
one of them includes it
22:50
one of them doesj't i guess
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22:56
<mathesis>
johnny, ltsp-server
22:57
<johnny>
i forgot the exact differences
22:57
i'msure you can look them up
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22:59
<johnny>
i prolly just followed the instructions on the ubuntu wiki
23:01
<mathesis>
johnny, http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/MueKow#Debian_development
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23:33
<lnxnubie>
hi, i'm in need of a "centralized authentication" solution, so can anyone tell me pros or cons of "plain LDAP+NFS " and a LTSP based solution
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