IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 December 2018   (all times are UTC)

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08:53
<rkwesk>
I had gone to a school lab yesterday and had an unusal experience with getting clients to connect with tftp
08:55
We had just made a new install of Ubuntu 18.04.1 and updated with the Greek school pps and ran the script that Alkis has made for Greek schools.
08:57
The computer teacher there explained that even with the previous 12.04 she could not use wol because the clients would not find tftp so our new insall of 18.04 had not cured it.
08:59
With the server up and running and epoptes open I started each client one by one and some found tftp and had connected ok but some had not.
09:00
I created a group in epoptes so I could register the clients there for wol.
09:01
Once I got all the clients connected (eventually) and joined to the group I went to try wol.
09:01
I shut all down from epoptes and tried to start them from wol.
09:02
Only two connected and the rest had not found tftp.
09:04
The other teacher told me that instead of wol she could get all the clients to connect if she chose each one by one turning them on but using a particular order.
09:05
So I rebooted the server to see what she could do and indeed she managed to get them connected.
09:07
However, two problems: first when restarting the clients with wol I discovered that the new group I had created in epoptes had disappeared!
09:08
So I went around turning on each client but not using the order that the other teacher had used and again most of the clients could not find tftp.
09:09
At that point we ran out of time and we left so I didn't run more tests.
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09:11
<rkwesk>
At home I thought about what had happened (and had not happened) and thought one or more clients were triggering flow control and stopping the rest from finding the server.
09:13
The test should be to unplug the lan cable from some clients to isolate which clients were causing the problem.
09:15
The other teacher said that that is what she will try in the next week. However, there is still the question as to why the group I had created in thefirst place in epoptes had disappeared.
09:16
I am stumped with that part but cannot but wait to see what the other teacher comes up with next week.
09:18
Has anyone else had such problems? I know that Alkis has added a command with miitool to turn flow control off so perhaps something else is causing this?
10:25
<alkisg>
rkwesk: hi richard, let me read what you wrote...
10:26
Ah, it's what you wrote in the forum; I replied there
10:27
About the group that disappeared; epoptes saves the groups on exit; so if you open epoptes two times, and you create groups in the second instance, and you close the second instance first and the first instance last (which has no groups), then it will save its empty groups last
10:28* vagrantc waves to rkwesk
10:29
<alkisg>
(i.e. the tftp thing is probably related to bad networking and/or router)
10:58
<rkwesk>
@vagrantc waves right back
10:59
@akisg ok thank you
11:03
<alkisg>
np
11:04
(you can use tab to autocomplete names to get them right ;))
11:08
<rkwesk>
@alkisg check
11:10
@alkisg I have been using gpt with ef02 on older non uefi boxes for some time without any problem.
11:11
@alkisg The advantage I like is that the partition table is backed up, unlike the mbr system.
11:12
<alkisg>
rkwesk: I'm not sure what you mean there
11:12
ef02 is for installing grub-pc on gpt disk without uefi, right?
11:12
That's a broken scenario by itself, why would you do that?
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11:13
<alkisg>
Hi Graham :)
11:13
<rkwesk>
@alkisg Yes so grub goes in there without any problem.
11:14
@alkisg It is not a broken scenario. It works just fine on my older boxes both with 32 and 64 bit systems.
11:15
<alkisg>
rkwesk: I mean, the combination that want is a bad choice, not that it doesn't work
11:15
The GPT partition table is used for UEFI
11:15
The MBR for BIOS
11:15
You want to use GPT for BIOS
11:16
So there's no reason to do that, and have to bother with ef02 and other workarounds to make it work
11:16
If you use the default schemes, everything will work fine without you doing anything at all
11:16
The installer does everything automatically then
11:16
<rkwesk>
@alkisg Not only with uefi because ef02 replaces the mbr space just fine.
11:17
Yes, ok I just use gdisk for myself not when I'm at a school with limited time.
11:17
<alkisg>
rkwesk: in uefi, grub is installed in the /efi file system, it doesn't need reserved sectors in the disk
11:18
The ef02 partition is a workaround for people that don't want to do it properly...
11:18
If you explain WHY you do that, I can explain to you how to do it properly instead
11:18
<rkwesk>
@alkisg Yes, I know that also so in such cases I create ef00 and not ef02
11:21
@alksig I use gdisk so I can be sure that things happen as I choose whereas a tool like ubiquity is handy when I am working against time or showing other teachers how to install.
11:21
<alkisg>
rkwesk: no, I'm not talking about the tools, but about "why are you using grub-pc on uefi, instead of grub-efi"
11:21
if that's what you're trying to do
11:21
or "why are you using grub-pc on gpt disks, instead of switching to mbr"
11:22
I.e. in which scenario do you need this? It shouldn't be needed except in very rare cases
11:23
<rkwesk>
@alkisg No. Not at all. When I work with uefi boxes I create ef00 and let the 64 bit install the grub-efi automatically.
11:24
@alkisg I only use ef02 when on a box without uefi or when I purposely want legacy mode as we did at last school.
11:25
<alkisg>
rkwesk: but why do you use gpt there?
11:25
Why not mbr, so that the grub partition isn't needed?
11:26
<rkwesk>
@alkisg Because the partition table gets a backup automatically with gpt whereas there is no such backup with mbr.
11:26
<alkisg>
I've no idea what you mean by that
11:27
MBR disks do have a backup partition, but that doesn't matter unless you get a disk error at sector 0
11:27
*backup partition table
11:29
So, specifically, the only scenario that one would need this thing is, if he already has windows running under uefi, AND he wants to install ubuntu 32bit (not 64bit), AND he doesn't want to use the "proper" method that I wrote in the forum
11:29
<rkwesk>
@alkisg I read the wiki that Rod created and learned about it there. Since then I have seen others saying the same thing about the fact that the partition table is copied into its normal place at the beginning of the disk but ALSO another copy is written at the end of the last partition.
11:29
<alkisg>
If these 3 conditions are true at some school, sure; but I never saw the need for those 3
11:29
Who is Rod?
11:30
<rkwesk>
@alkisg http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/ He created gdisk
11:32
<alkisg>
So you prefer to use GPT even when you're not using UEFI, because you think that it's safer than MBR?
11:32
<rkwesk>
@alkisg I don't think that if a 64 bit windows with uefi will cooperate with linux using ef02
11:33
@alkisg Yes. I see it is far superior.
11:33
<alkisg>
OK, got it. I don't share that opinion, and I don't think it's worth the additional trouble.
11:34
I haven't seen any real issues with MBR in schools that would have been avoided with GPT
11:34
Now of course one can use > 3 TB disks with GPT etc etc, but that's not the argument here
11:35
<rkwesk>
@alkisg I am not saying that schools should follow this. As you point out ubiquity does it all for them.
11:35
<alkisg>
Not just for schools; for anyone, no matter their technical expertise
11:35
On the contrary, I've seen issues with GPT that would have been avoided with MBR
11:36
But lunch time; see you guys later :)
11:36
<rkwesk>
@alkisg Of course, the chances of a disk losing the sector 0 is not worth a school worrying about.
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