IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 9 March 2008   (all times are UTC)

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07:25
<lucas__>
hi, has someone tested the asus eeepc as thin client ?
07:26
<Nubae>
sounds like a cool idea :-) they're small and sweet
07:31
<cyberorg>
i know ogra_ has been testing classmate pc
07:38
<lucas__>
I am trying to figure this out, bcz it is really cool.
07:39
I don't know if there is boot on lan option on bios. This is main question and concern.
07:40
I found this site http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?pid=153913
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11:40
<subsume>
I've got some directions setting up an LTSP fat client but I need some small clarification. Could someone please help?
11:40
I know I can load an operating system in the /opt folder of the host machine. But I am not understanding how client machines read from this.
11:41
<steph_>
I have a "TFTP cannot open connection" error. Can someone help me?
11:47
<sepski>
steph_, client trying to connect to the right server, and are there tftp service running on that server ?
11:47
subsume, traditionaly by nfs. but also livecd image via nbd now
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11:48
<subsume>
sepski: I don't just make the BIOS network boot?
11:49
<sepski>
subsume, yes that's step 1:
11:49
<subsume>
ok, that's all I wanted to know
11:49
<steph_>
sepski: I first installed ubuntu, then ltsp-server-standalone and openssh-server. Then ltsp-build-client / ltsp-update-sshkeys. My server's network card is set to 192.168.0.1 and the router between the client and the server is set to 192.168.0.254 ? Is there something missing?
11:49
<subsume>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients <-- you guys seen this? Its really cool.
11:50
<sepski>
steph_, you usauly can't have a router between client and server. since the client rely on dhcp to get boot information from the server, and that wont go across the router without special configuration
11:50
<steph_>
sepski: ...I set the router DHCP fonction disabled.
11:51
<sepski>
subsume, nice that it's finaly going into ltsp properly we'v been running debian-edu's diskless machine hack for a few years
11:51
steph_, even with it enabeled it would give out wrong information
11:51
<subsume>
sepski: wow.
11:52
<sepski>
a better integrated solution is great :)
11:52
steph_, usualy i have 2 nics on the ltsp server. one nic is for the internet connected to router and the net at large
11:53
and the other net is to the thin clients. where the server provides dhcp for the clients
11:53
<steph_>
sepski: It worked last week! I just made a fresh installation to be sure I can set up LTSP quickly. Can't find what I'm missing?
11:53
<subsume>
If I connect my fat clients via network cables instead of wifi will they be faster??
11:53
<sepski>
subsume, yes. and now do you intend to network boot across wifi ?
11:53
<steph_>
sepski: I'm running 8.04 if it can help.
11:54
<subsume>
sepski: They were all setup with wifi. yeah. I was intending to boot via wifi (for now)
11:54
<sepski>
how would you boot wia wifi ?
11:54
<subsume>
sepski: it is a network connection like any other...?
11:54
<sepski>
do you have external wifi ethernet adapters ?
11:54
<steph_>
sepski: do I have to change something in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf? I can't remember what I've done.
11:54
<sepski>
no. wifi require lots of OS config before working.
11:54
eg SSID, encryption etc
11:54
<subsume>
sepski: ok. I suppose I don't.
11:54
<sepski>
you can not network boot on wifi at all
11:55
<subsume>
but it will be faster if i convert?
11:55
<sepski>
unless you have a adapter that you can configure with wifi settings that are stored outside the OS
11:55
yes
11:55
<subsume>
right now the whole network simply has an NFS /home drive
11:55
and when everyone is logged in, you can hear the machines creaking.
11:55
<sepski>
steph_, think ltsp-server comes with a dhcp.conf example file and yes you have to configure lots
11:58
<steph_>
sepski: I'm really not a guru with network :( Can you give me some advices. I would like to know which line(s) I have to change?
11:58
<subsume>
Ok, I am ready to crush, kill, destroy. thank you for your help.
11:58
<sepski>
steph_, you'd get much better result from reading the example file. then from me trying to remember things...
11:59
but atlest filename and next-server
11:59
next-server should be your tftp server
12:00
file name the path to pxelinux.0 on that tftp server
12:01
<steph_>
sepski: the "next-server" line is disabled with a #. What is th meaning of this line?
12:02
<ogra_cmpc>
steph_, thats only used for nfs root ... which isnt used anymore in ubuntu since a year
12:03
<sepski>
steph_, hence why reading the example line is better :)
12:03
<ogra_cmpc>
steph_, make sure to not have more than one dhcp server running in your network ...
12:04
netbooting wont work with more than one
12:04
(check your router etc)
12:05
<sepski>
steph_, and dont have the router between the client and the server as you meantion above. client should be on the same network as the router.
12:05
same network as the server i mean
12:05
<steph_>
My router's DHCP function has been disabled. Could it be a problem with my server's DHCP?
12:06
<cyberorg>
ogra_, got pa working on opensuse 11 :)
12:06
i mean on ltsp client
12:06
<ogra_cmpc>
steph_, so you are sure there is definately only the ltsp server servig dhcp atm ?
12:06
cyberorg, pa ?
12:07
<cyberorg>
i used esound on 10.3, just finished getting pulseaudio working
12:07
<ogra_cmpc>
ah, pulse
12:07
got proper alsa emulation ?
12:07
<steph_>
ogra_cmpc: Well, I'm sure the router is configured correctly, but not the server !
12:07
<cyberorg>
donno about how proper, but it works out of box
12:08
i see the client in padevchooser and music plays fine, i can use gnome volume control too
12:08
<ogra_cmpc>
steph_, does the dhcp server start without error on the server ?
12:09
<steph_>
ogra_cmpc: with the command /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start? Yes
12:09
<ogra_cmpc>
do a reastart
12:09
<steph_>
ogra_cmpc: is there a log file that I can look at?
12:09
<ogra_cmpc>
else it fill throw a fil message since its running alrewady
12:09
<cyberorg>
and i discovered accidentally that nc in ltsp scripts is what we call netcat on suse
12:10
<steph_>
ogra_cmpc: a restart does'nt gave me errors.
12:11
<ogra_cmpc>
thats a good sign
12:11
and it said ok after startiong ?
12:11
<steph_>
yep
12:12
ogra_cmpc: What does "TFTP cannot open connection" means?
12:12
<ogra_cmpc>
that it doesnt find your tftp server
12:13
which would automatically be your ltsdp server if dhcp would work correctly
12:13
really chack the router another time
12:14
<steph_>
ogra_cmpc: wow, a restart fix everything. But that's not enough for me.... I would like to understabd what happened. I even tried a reboot. But nothings worked.
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12:14
<ogra_cmpc>
might be that you didnt restart inetd after setting the IP for the NIC
12:15
<steph_>
ogra_cmpc: I don't like to make Windows voodoo incantation to make my LTSP works :)
12:15
<ogra_cmpc>
(tftpd is started by inetd on request)
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12:15
<steph_>
ogra_cmpc: would it start automatically next time I will boot?
12:15
<ogra_cmpc>
indeed
12:16
<steph_>
ogra_cmpc: what is inetd's job?
12:18
<ogra_cmpc>
listenting on all ports that arent taken by anyone else ... if a request comes in for a port thats defined in inetd.conf it starts the accoring app
12:19
<steph_>
... like connecting to LTSP server?
12:19
<ogra_cmpc>
well, inetd serves two critical services for ltsp
12:19
(tftp for the initramfs and kernel ... and nbd for the root filesystem)
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12:20
<steph_>
ogra_cmpc: your answers satisfied me for the moment ;) Thanks
12:20
<ogra_cmpc>
:)
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12:34
<steph_>
How can I set up preferences for all the students (kinf of default student) that i add with LTSP?
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12:51
<rjune>
that depends on what environment you use
12:51
gnome uses sabyon, kde uses kiosktool
13:11
<warren>
jcastro, you there?
13:11
ogra_cmpc, ping
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13:38
<jcastro>
warren: yeah, what's up
13:39
<warren>
jcastro, does your ssh have both -X and -Y options in the man page?
13:39
<jcastro>
looking
13:39
yeah
13:39
<warren>
jcastro, /etc/ssh/ssh_config
13:39
jcastro, what is ForwardX11Trusted set to?
13:40
<jcastro>
nothing, it's commented out
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13:59
<cyberorg>
ForwardX11Trusted yes on suse
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13:59
<warren>
jcastro, what version of openssh?
14:00
<jcastro>
warren: 4.7p1, I'm using the development release of ubuntu
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14:03
<warren>
jcastro, I'm afraid the ldm will break with the security fix
14:03
jcastro, your distro doesn't seem to turn on trusted X11 forwarding by default like others
14:04
jcastro, if everyone has ssh -Y then we should switch to -Y instead of -X.
14:04
<jcastro>
maybe we should have that on by default
14:05
<warren>
maybe, but that doesn't help existing users
14:05
<jcastro>
I am unsure what the policy is on that, maybe it's something we inherit from debian
14:05
<warren>
given that we want -Y anyway, I'll add it to ldm
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15:22
<steph__>
I would like to install software only for the client. sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install X does'nt give the results expected. Can someone help?
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16:15
<elisboa>
steph__: which errors do you get?
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19:32
<vagrantc>
it's been a while since i've installed a plain debian etch ltsp without backports.
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19:48
<warren>
vagrantc, I'm changing ssh -X to ssh -Y
19:49
vagrantc, and I've spent all day trying to make LDM_DIRECTX work without -ac, i'm out of time. I have to ship our F9beta with your patch then continue work on ldm's xauth
19:49
vagrantc, I'm adding an optional location for the Xauthority file because /root/.Xauthority doesn't work for me. my userspace prevents me from reading/writing in there for some reason I don't understand, even as root.
19:50
vagrantc, buildtime option. If you don't specify an option like --Xauthority= then it defaults to /root/
19:50
vagrantc, although would people be against /var/run/somewhere instead?
19:50
<vagrantc>
warren: so ship it with a patch.
19:50
<warren>
vagrantc, I have no fedora specific patches in my packages...
19:51
vagrantc, it seems wrong for any system thing to depend on /root
19:51
<vagrantc>
warren: committing something upstream that could be potentially disruptive to other distros just because you have a release doesn't seem fair.
19:51
<warren>
vagrantc, to be fair, your patch isn't disruptive to other distros.
19:51
vagrantc, removing -ac except in LDM_DIRECTX produces the same behavior as the past ldm.
19:51
<vagrantc>
ah, you're just applying that patch ...
19:52
<warren>
yeah
19:52
beyond that I'm proposing that we move the .Xauthority file
19:52
because /root seems wrong
19:52
and it doesn't work here at all
19:52
vagrantc, also, what is supposed to happen if you have more than one SCREEN_XX specify ldm?
19:52
<vagrantc>
xauthority in /root seems *exactly* right if ldm is running as root.
19:53
though i think we should not be running as root...
19:53
<warren>
gdm running as root doesn't put it there
19:53
<vagrantc>
warren: i've used multiple ldm sessions on a single thin client
19:53
<warren>
vagrantc, if each ldm is sharing the same .Xauthority then it isn't independent...
19:54
<vagrantc>
well, at any rate, we clearly need a better long-term fix with all this stuff. i don't like the idea of committing that patch upstream- for me it's just a quick fix.
19:55
warren: my patch basically makes it not really use .Xauthority at all ...
19:55
<warren>
vagrantc, in the past it didn't use .Xauthority either
19:55
<vagrantc>
.Xauthority is just an empty file, and ssh notices that and generates some sort of xauth data on the fly
19:55
warren: correct.
19:56
<warren>
If you are running more than one ldm on the same system, which is strange, it should use independent .Xauthority files
19:56
other things that use xauth generate one with a non-hardcoded name in such cases
19:56
<vagrantc>
sounds reasonable.
19:56
when we get back to actually using the .Xauthority files, sounds good to me.
19:57
but i wouldn't make patches to that effect until it's actually using .Xauthority files ...
19:57
<warren>
right, I don't need this overnight
19:57
yeah
19:57
I'm only adding your patch for now
19:57
because it really isn't worse than previous
19:58
<vagrantc>
it is an improvement, but i'm not sure it isn't still a lurking security flaw.
19:58
<warren>
LDM_DIRECTX is a lurking security flaw =)
19:58
<vagrantc>
mainly, i'm not sure what that on-the-fly xauth data actually is
19:58
that's always been a known security flaw
19:59
<warren>
"I can sniff your session" is different from "I can manipulate your session"
19:59
with -ac you can move someone's mouse, take screenshots, etc.
19:59
<vagrantc>
sure sure.
19:59
<warren>
well, with X11 trusted forwarding the ssh server can do that too
20:00
<vagrantc>
but what i'm not sure is, is the fake xauth data generated predictible in such a way that it wouldn't be much harder than with -ac ... granted, -ac makes it absolutely trivial ... but i'm nto sure the fake xauth data is very secure.
20:00
<warren>
GNOME is broken in various ways and many apps just crash without X11 trusted forwarding
20:00
true
20:00
<vagrantc>
we don't even have that option specified in our sshd_config
20:01
so we're using whatever openssh uses by default
20:01
and i've used GNOME on many occasions
20:01
<warren>
no
20:01
ssh_config
20:01
vagrantc, either that or your openssh is older than before they made a distinction between the two
20:02
vagrantc, does ssh -X and -Y exist in man ssh?
20:02
<vagrantc>
warren: ForwardX11Trusted is commented out, so we're using whatever openssh's default is.
20:02
warren: yes, both -X and -Y exist.
20:02
<warren>
OK, but I'm 100% certain that -Y is needed
20:02
<vagrantc>
it's certainly not needed on debian.
20:03
<warren>
Are you sure it isnt' enabled by something else?
20:03
<vagrantc>
-Y ?
20:03
what else could enable it
20:03
?
20:03
<warren>
it could be built into the binary
20:03
<vagrantc>
or is the default to "yes" ... that i'
20:03
m not sure of
20:04
basically, i don't really want to spend any more time talking about it... seems like a few minutes of experimentation can answer these questions.
20:04
<warren>
There is a reason why Fedora, RHEL and SuSE all enable it by default
20:04
<vagrantc>
it's commented out, but the comment does say "yes" ... so maybe it is somehow the default ...
20:04
<warren>
For a while Fedora had it disabled by default and we had tons of people complain when -X stopped working as they expected.
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20:07
<vagrantc>
warren: ok. debian does set "ForwardX11Truested yes" by default ... it's built into the binary.
20:08
<warren>
there we go
20:08
<vagrantc>
warren: so -Y is basically just like -X, except it sets ForwardX11Trusted ?
20:08
<warren>
yes
20:08
-ac would be a superset of permissions granted by -Y =)
20:08
<vagrantc>
heh
20:09
i wish i had been more adamant about "-ac" being a security risk back in 2005.
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20:09
<warren>
You KNEW about it?
20:10
Any Ubuntu people here?
20:10
<vagrantc>
well, i had my suspicions is was a bad idea, and mentioned it, and was brushed off.
20:10
<warren>
I'm trying to understand upstart
20:12
<vagrantc>
i had no idea just how bad "-ac" really was.
20:12
so i wasn't able to prove just exactly what badness it caused.
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20:19
<subsume>
So in attempting to create an LTSP environment on my edubuntu server I somehow funked the internet connection on all my clients.
20:19
If someone could help me debug, that'd be great.
20:19
I already flushed my iptables--nothing.
20:20
they all connect fine to the LAN but the WAN is unavailable to all but the server machine.;
20:20
<mnemoc>
.oO( no greetings? )o
20:21
<subsume>
Seems a bit late and contrived if I did that now... =)
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21:57
<warren>
vagrantc, why do we launch screen sessions from screen_sessions instead of /etc/inittab or /etc/event.d?
21:58
<vagrantc>
warren: screen_sessions is a wrapper used to launch the screen session ... in ltsp 4.x, it was used in /etc/inittab
21:59
if verifies that the SCREEN_NN option specified is valid and allows for /etc/ltsp/screen.d to override /usr/share/ltsp/screen.d ...
22:00
i don't think any screen scripts need to ". /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_config", as all those environment variables are exported and will be available ...
22:01
<warren>
oh that's right, I have to add /etc/ltsp/screen.d
22:01
<vagrantc>
why add it?
22:01
<warren>
it isn't packaged
22:01
it shouldn't be?
22:01
well, I guess it isn't necessary...
22:01
<vagrantc>
well, nothing should go in it by default
22:01
<warren>
:q
22:02
<vagrantc>
it's only there for the admin to override the default screen scripts, or add custom ones
22:03
<warren>
custom ones could be packaged...
22:03
<vagrantc>
but those probably should go in /usr/share, no?
22:04
unless they're custom ones overriding existing ones
22:04
then i guess they'd have to go in /etc
22:05
<warren>
vagrantc, you have any idea why it launches X with -noreset?
22:05
vagrantc, what happens when the last client disconnects?
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22:07
<vagrantc>
warren: typically, it restarts anyways ... so not sure why -noreset is passed.
22:07
might have been an attempt to just re-display the greeter without restarting X that just never got implemented
22:07
although gadi had some patches for that.
22:07
<warren>
if ldm crashes I don't know what will happen here
22:08
<vagrantc>
warren: in my experience, when ldm crashes the X server dies.
22:10
<warren>
vagrantc, if ldm crashes then the last client disconnects, and the X server is supposed to sit there doing nothing.
22:10
by default -reset is the behavior where it tries to restart the X server without launching X again
22:10
that behavior is broken
22:10
<vagrantc>
well, experiment with it.
22:10
<warren>
which is why ajax told me to use -terminate always
22:11
they're ripping out -reset soon
22:11
it is unsupportable
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22:21
<vagrantc>
warren: after reading that URL you posted, i'm going to play with "ForwardX11Trusted no" ... :)
22:21
<warren>
good luck
22:21
it is a waste of time I'm assuring you =)
22:21
perhaps some less complicated apps will work
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22:39
<vagrantc>
warren: well, all done wastng my time already. yup. still breaks everything.
22:39
<warren>
good
22:40
hm
22:40
it does seem to restart X when you log out of a desktop session
22:40
so -noreset isn't doing anything
22:40
<boog>
join #linuxactionshow
22:40
sorry about that one...
22:40
<warren>
Is there something LTSP related there?
22:40
or are you spamming?
22:41* vagrantc guessing a missing / typo
22:41
<warren>
oh
22:41
<boog>
neither..trying to get xchat to join a different channel too.
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23:44
<LTSP>
Hi. Where is the "rootserver" IP address listed in client boot process stored? Can it be changed? I have clients hanging on a new ltsp installation.
23:46
They stop at the busybox prompt, with errors about cannot find filesystem /sbin/init. I think it's because the "rootserver" IP a few lines prior to the error points to my router, not the ltsp installation (on xubuntu 7.10). Matched its dhcpd-conf file to a prior 6.10 working installation (same hardware on server+clients) & turned authoritative command on/off.