IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 1 August 2009   (all times are UTC)

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00:33
<alkisg>
Good morning
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00:54
<Lns>
hey alkisg
00:54
<alkisg>
Hey Lns, how's it going?
00:54
<Lns>
not bad, adding a list of wishlist features for TCM for the future
00:55
was it you that was talking with me and some others re: how to group users together (system group vs 'tags' or some such) ?
00:55
<alkisg>
...heh I was just going to ask you about the current tcm state... :)
00:55
Yeah I was part of the conversation...
00:55
<Lns>
It might be in a stable state to release to the general public in a couple of weeks actually
00:55
<alkisg>
Woah, that's good news :)
00:56
<Lns>
http://logicalnetworking.net/wiki/doku.php?id=start#projectthin_client_manager_tcm - I was brainstorming on some tagging concepts
00:57* alkisg prefers groups to tags... I don't see any real advantage in using tags :-/
00:58
<Lns>
well i'm kind of starting to think of some (such as using any character, or grouping thin clients and users together)
01:01
<alkisg>
I've been using utf8 characters in group names with no problems, but I didn't try any weird characters like !@#$%^&
01:01
<Lns>
And I can honestly see the argument against not wanting to use system groups simply because they are seen as 'lower level' than some things they might want to associate some things with (such as "problem user")
01:02
some admins might not want that showing up in the group list
01:02
<alkisg>
Hmmmm a list of use cases would be nice here
01:03
I suppose that all the tagging that I need is also grouping, that's why I don't see the benefits
01:03
Maybe someone else indeed needs tagging
01:04
<Lns>
sure..and at least with tagging in tcm (whenever that gets implemented, if ever) you have the choice to select clients/users by group *and* tags together
01:05
<alkisg>
E.g. my groups are usually based on classes, duties... So even if I don't want to do anything on them on the file system, using actual groups makes sense
01:06
“3rd Grade”, “Mrs. Rushka's Classroom clients”, “Teacher”, “Computer Lab”, “Trouble student” ===> I'd use groups for all of those
01:06
E.g. Mrs. Rushka might need a common folder with read/write access for her students later on, why not use a group?
01:06
The same for 3rd grade or the teachers etc...
01:07
<Lns>
How about "Last name A-F"
01:07
or "Spanish speaker"
01:07
<alkisg>
Why would that be a tag, instead of a saved search in the users admin tool?
01:08
<Lns>
users admin tool?
01:08
<alkisg>
Spanish speaker => yeah, I'd use a group.. again, a need for a common dir might arise
01:08
<Lns>
hmm..lets find something you'll agree with me on ;)
01:08
how about...
01:09
"Hacker wannabe"
01:11
<alkisg>
...let's move on to the use of the tags. OK, you have a tag with all the students that are "Hacker wannabe". How will you want to use that tag?
01:11
<Lns>
Maybe to lock down their desktops more than normal users
01:11
<alkisg>
So you'd e.g. have to patch sabayon to use tags. But if you used a group, it would support that out of the box...
01:12
<Lns>
or maybe to alert you whenever they log in
01:13
sabayon could be used side by side w/TCM, it wouldn't have to be patched...i'm talking real basic lockdown (panel, wm specific stuff - more like pessulus)
01:14
<alkisg>
What I'm saying is that many actions will need to be handled by tools that know about groups but don't know about tags
01:14
So you'd either lose functionality, or need to patch a lot of tools
01:15
E.g. I can get all the group members using a simple shell script in any distro. How would I get a tag members from the shell to do something with them?
01:17
<Lns>
Well if you really wanted to, i'm sure it could be implemented in simple xml. At this point it's just my concept.. but think about this, you can't assign a client to a group since there is no user for a client machine
01:18
<alkisg>
Sure, PCs don't correspond to groups
01:18
<Lns>
so for example, if you wanted to shut down machines 1, 2, and 3, as well as whichever machine user xyz is on...
01:18
<alkisg>
I wouldn't abuse groups to tag clients with them
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01:19
<alkisg>
So tags could contain PCs?
01:19
<Lns>
Again, though, this is just all in my head (and partially on the wiki) at this point, i have no idea when/if it will even get implemented =p
01:25
<alkisg>
Hmmm I was thinking of using the users admin program as a center of those tasks
01:26
I.e. the teacher would open the users admin (a much improved version of it), select classes A, C, and teacher XYZ, go to the menus and start a task on them
01:27
So tags wouldn't fit in this tool, because it would be a standard user management tool
01:28
But a different tool, one that uses tags might be better suited for task-based classroom administration.. I have to think about that :)
01:30
<Lns>
True, they are very different tasks (user admin vs. tcm)
01:35
<alkisg>
When a teacher wants to lockdown the desktop (or something else) for some users, how do you imagine he does that with tcm?
01:43
<Lns>
it would be in a separate plugin most likely
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01:47
<alkisg>
Maybe it's better if user management tasks is handled by the users-admin tool, and TCM only handles the TC specific tasks?
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01:49
<Lns>
sure, i wasn't planning on having a lot of 'user management' in tcm, mostly being able to perform actions on sessions via logged in user - the lockdown stuff is kind of a 'wishlist' thing (i just updated the wiki page to better reflect that)
01:50
there is definitely a gray area between traditional 'user management' and what could easily be provided as a subsection of tcm (and could easily reflect in both, with the exception of tags, which would probably need to be tcm specific)
01:52
<alkisg>
What I'd like to do is take the fedora's user management tool, add a lot of "select users by..." functionality, and add plugin support to it (e.g. add the keyboard panel applet to the selected users).
01:53
<Lns>
That would be awesome
01:53
they use system-config-users right?
01:53
<alkisg>
Yes. There were looking to replace it, but I'd only use it as a template
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01:54
<alkisg>
But I also had to debianize 10 Gb of windows-based educational programs this summer, so I won't have time for this unless someone helps...
01:54* Lns needs to learn python
01:54* alkisg too :)
01:55
<alkisg>
pygtk, I guess... I'd like it to be Qt-based, but it won't be as much accepted with Qt
01:55
<Lns>
depends
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05:46
<vagrantc>
!seen nubae
05:46
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: nubae was last seen in #ltsp 2 days, 13 hours, 47 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <nubae> release? You mean kill the process?
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06:01
<vagrantc>
anyone have nubae's email address? my internet connections may be brief, and was hoping to touch base with nuebae while i'm on this side of the world
06:03
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, David Van Assche <dvanassche@gmail.com>
06:03
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: thanks!
06:03
<cyberorg>
yw :)
06:04
<NeonLich1>
at which side or the world are you, vagrantc? :)
06:04
<vagrantc>
NeonLich1: spain
06:05
<NeonLich1>
oh, I'm Spanish, were in Spain=
06:05
?
06:05* cyberorg wishes he was in spain
06:05NeonLich1 is now known as NeonLicht
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06:06
<NeonLicht>
are you planing to visit Granada, vagrantc?
06:06
<vagrantc>
NeonLicht: currently, granada... might swing through sevilla... leave out of madrid
06:06
NeonLicht: why yes, i'm there now! :)
06:06
<NeonLicht>
hahaha, I've seen it after I asked it. I'm from Granada :)
06:06
how do you like it here?
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06:07
<vagrantc>
NeonLicht: not sure yet. got here late last night looking for a cheap place to stay, and spent the morning looking for something cheaper :)
06:08
<NeonLicht>
oh, I see, there are a few cheap hostels (* or **) around "Gran Via"
06:08
<vagrantc>
and then looking for internet connection... since it's much easier to find places on the internet than walking around aimlessly :)
06:09
<NeonLicht>
if you haven't found any place yet, have a look at Loren hostal, it's cheap, clean and very well located
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06:10
<vagrantc>
NeonLicht: thanks for the pointer. i've got a place for two more days, but could use something with a kitchen and ideally internet :)
06:10
<NeonLicht>
how long are you staying?
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06:13
<vagrantc>
NeonLicht: any ltsp deployments in granada? :)
06:14
<NeonLicht>
sure, vagrantc, I'm the guy you helped out with sound on Debian a couple/three months ago
06:15
I'd love to meet you personally and have a "tinto de verano" together and tell you how it works :)
06:15
<vagrantc>
oh! even debian!
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06:16
<NeonLicht>
sure, Debian, of course, that was why I ended up asking you for help :)
06:16* vagrantc sometimes helps with other distros, too
06:16
<NeonLicht>
I'm really happy to know you are in Granada, really, and tha we can meet :)
06:16
hahaha, ok, ok, but you are the one on the Debian "side", aren't you? :)
06:17
<vagrantc>
yeah, i do most of the debian ltsp work
06:17
just got finished with the debian conference in caceres
06:17
<NeonLicht>
I see
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06:25
<nubae>
vagrantc, when u planning on passing by Sevilla?
06:26
<NeonLicht>
are you from Sevilla, nubae?
06:26
<vagrantc>
nubae: hey!
06:26
nubae: i was just writing you an email ... i ended up in granada first
06:28
<nubae>
ah allright, probably cooler there
06:28
<vagrantc>
heh
06:28
<nubae>
Sevilla is real hot right now
06:28
NeonLicht, I live there, yes
06:28
<NeonLicht>
not much cooler, nubae, it's terrible here (gr) also
06:29
<nubae>
yeah, I'm in Marbella at the moment... my parents have a house there...
06:29
its hot, but the sea nearby really helps
06:30
vagrantc, so the guadalinex guys are eager to meet you too
06:30
I guess there is a lot of interest in how the entire edu deployment thing is being done up in extremadura
06:30
<vagrantc>
nubae: ah, i maybe met some of them back in 2007, but maybe it's a different set of folks
06:31
<nubae>
nah, probably the same ones :-) at least some of them
06:32
<NeonLicht>
the whole Andalucia is excited to know vagrantc's around :)
06:32
<nubae>
anyway, let me know when u plan on being in town... looking forward to meet up
06:32
hehe yeah
06:32
<vagrantc>
heh
06:32
good to feel welcomed
06:32
<nubae>
hey NeonLicht, I guess guadalinex is being used in Granada too
06:33
altogether think we have approx. 2000 schools
06:33
<NeonLicht>
nubae, sure, it is, although I don't know a lot about it. I use Debian, and so do people around me.
06:34
<nubae>
funny thing is the distros for the autonomous regions (not the edu ones, the regular ones) are like trophy pieces)
06:34
<NeonLicht>
trophy? trofeos?
06:35
<nubae>
local government gets together infront of the camera, shows off a cd with their logo, and then forgets all about it till the next photo session
06:35
yeah
06:35
<NeonLicht>
oh, yeah, that's so discusting...
06:35
<nubae>
what I mean is, I doubt anyone really uses them, outside schools, which have a very different version
06:36
take Guadalinex... we are supposed to base guadalinex-edu off it, but we can't because its release cycle is tied to elections, and not to debian or ubuntu release cycles
06:37
<vagrantc>
you're hardly a regional government in spain without your own linux distro
06:37
<nubae>
so we base the edu version off ubuntu, and make it look as much like guadalinex as possible :-)
06:37
yeah indeed... its totally a political thing
06:38
I wonder if its like that elsewhere
06:38
<vagrantc>
sounds like extremadura has gnu/linux, and it's also closely tied to politicians... recent political changes have been difficult
06:38
<nubae>
I guess Brasil must be similar
06:38
<NeonLicht>
well, nubae, politicians are a special kind of people, but I doubt they can be as stupid as here everywhere
06:39
<nubae>
heh
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06:40
<nubae>
at least for the most part linux has been a success in school environments in Spain
06:40
other places like Germany/Austria haven't been so lucky
06:44
<vagrantc>
i know some of the skolelinux.de, who have had some success ... but nothing like what's gone on in spain
06:45
<nubae>
right, I was quite shocked to walk into a room of about 60 people all developing on Linux...
06:46
And the whole regional government actually running Linux is impressive too
06:47
I guess best to enjoy it while it lasts (I'm not too optimistic that this is a permenant thing)
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06:49
<nubae>
vagrantc, bus from Granada to Sevilla is 17.50 euros
06:49
and takes about 3.5 hours
06:49
bus company is alsina graells
06:50
<vagrantc>
nubae: that's the way to go, then?
06:50
<nubae>
cheapest for sure...
06:51
train is not much more though... 22.70
06:52
http://horarios.renfe.es/hir/index.jsp?page=hjhir130.jsp&O=05000&D=51003&AF=2009&MF=MM&DF=DD&SF=NaN&ID=i
06:52
looks like there are 4 trains a day, and 3 buses a day leaving to Sevilla
06:55
<vagrantc>
nubae: thanks!
06:55
renfe.es seems to change their site about once a month and makes it harder to use each time
06:57
<nubae>
welcome to Spain :-)
06:57
heh, one funny thing was this site the regional government recently released, to teach young girls how to be proper females
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06:58
<nubae>
its like straight from Franco times... its this whole bunch of howtos like, cleaning the house, sowing things, making food
06:58
the kind of thing that would hit headlines in the US and stinks of sexism...
07:01
it was funded by junta andalucia, though they took away any association 2 days after launching the site, probabably after realising how badly they'd screwed up
07:01
<vagrantc>
eeyk
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07:02
<nubae>
http://www.proyectogenia.org/
07:03
some of it is pretty funny, like how to behave infront of others, how to walk correctly
07:04
house maintenance 101
07:04
:-)
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07:09
<vagrantc>
ok, time to let my computer cool down
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11:35
<coldfusion>
hello
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11:36
<coldfusion>
ive asked once, i've asked a thousand times... any gentoo users here ? :)
11:44
<beer30>
here!
11:44
<coldfusion>
ooh!
11:44
unionfs?
11:44
<beer30>
no
11:44
:( Maybe though....
11:45
<coldfusion>
did you have any trouble with the init scripts on the clients?
11:45
<beer30>
well, I haven't actually gotten any clients to work
11:46
<coldfusion>
oh, right okay
11:47
i have one thin client. it boots, i can log in, run X... but i'm confused... it's' a tad slow and i'm thinking, should this thing be running X direct from the chroot or should it be connecting to an XDMCP server
11:47
<beer30>
ya, bummer... they boot alright, but then when they go to load ldm, the screen just flashes. and I can't seem to get past that.
11:47
<coldfusion>
wonder which would be faster
11:47
ldm is knackered here
11:47
glib errors
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11:51
<Ahmuck>
any reason i'd need 4 ethernet ports?
11:52
on a server board?
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12:03
<alkisg>
Ahmuck: speed?
12:03
<Ahmuck>
can ltsp utilize 4 ethernet ports?
12:03
<alkisg>
Sure
12:04
<Ahmuck>
i only have a 8 port switch, which i have six clients on. at the most i could out two ethernet port to the switch and bring two in from the router but not sure that would help
12:04
<coldfusion>
not sure that's gunna work beer30, it'd have to be a privmsg sorry
12:05
<beer30>
np..
12:05
<alkisg>
Ahmuck: You could directly connect 2 clients on 2 server NICs, but you'd need to be a little advanced user to set it up
12:05
<Ahmuck>
it's been suggested i stick with a server board rather than a high end desktop board for my replacement
12:05
<alkisg>
And put the other 2 nics on the switch for trunking
12:06
<coldfusion>
can you not like, bond two of the interfaces?
12:06
<Ahmuck>
alkisg: erk, i don't do advanced right now. i'm timed strapped and old
12:06
<beer30>
lol
12:06
<alkisg>
Ahmuck: are you the administrator there? Maybe someone else can help you?
12:06
<beer30>
never too old ;)
12:06
<Ahmuck>
Ahmuck: i am
12:06
<alkisg>
coldfusion: sure, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Trunking
12:07
<Ahmuck>
in rural areas, were mostly microsoft
12:07
<coldfusion>
beer30, what was it you wanted to dcc about?
12:07
<Ahmuck>
in truth, i could set up a ms server in a heartbeat and do mirroring every night quicker than i could ltsp. however i have a oss spirit
12:08
<beer30>
Cold, nuttin... I was just messing around with the menus ;) I haven't IRC'd for like 15 years... ya, I'm old too.
12:08
<coldfusion>
haha
12:08
k
12:09
fyi the linux kernel can handle dcc through nat, i just dont think i've set it up
12:09
<beer30>
I'm lazy and was looking for a way to direct my dialog to you in the chat... eg coldfustion: ... with out having to type it everytime.
12:09
<coldfusion>
oh
12:10
<beer30>
coldfusion: so it would show up like this
12:11
so ppl know who I was talking to... I thought there was an option to do that if I double clicked your name, but that just opens a separate chat window.
12:11
<coldfusion>
oh right okay
12:12
<beer30>
so anyway... back to the problems at hand.
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12:13
<beer30>
I'm in the process of rebuilding my gentoo box.... and 'lo and behold... it crashes trying to build ldminfod... :|
12:13
<Ahmuck>
understand i come from a ms world, working for employer after employer who "pirated" much of thier software. refusing and refusing to install and work with pirated software doesn't work in a tech's favor
12:13
<coldfusion>
yeah. i just need someone to clear up with me whether or not using the nfs chroot to then connect to an XDMCP server would be faster than using the nfs chroot to run X directly fromo the chroot (login, startx etc etc)
12:13
<Ahmuck>
finally i'd had enough, and went my own direction
12:14
<coldfusion>
beer30: whats the error?
12:15
<beer30>
EBZR_BRANCH still defined <-- Same one I posted about in bugs.gentoo.org
12:15
<coldfusion>
find the ebuild, open up the ebuild, comment out the BRANCH line and add to the line above it the path included in the branch line
12:15
<beer30>
I've worked around this before by putting the old bzr.eclass into ltsp overlay... just forgot to do that.
12:15
<coldfusion>
then do 'ebuild <name> digest' on that ebuild
12:16
thats what i did anywya
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12:17
<beer30>
ya, that is what I did inititally, but I ran into some other errors (not sure if they were related or not)... I ended up finding a bzr.eclass from the screenlets overlay that worked fine... + you have to edit several other ebuilds that still have that EBZR_BRANCH defined.
12:17
<coldfusion>
yeah
12:18
i know that i had to install ltspfs direct
12:18
<beer30>
I did see that they used to use their own bzr.eclass... so I am going to put that one back into the overlay... forgot to do that; my bad ;).
12:18
<coldfusion>
and then --nodeps the server and client
12:22
<beer30>
speaking of nodeps.... I ran into the weirdest problem last night.... git-9999 depends on git, so it was a circular dependancy... I'm like umm.... I can't install git without git?
12:23
I already had git installed, but ltsp-server pulled in the 9999, so I had to do a --nodeps to get that to install... so stupid!
12:24
Of course, the reason for that is that git-9999 pulls from a git repository, so you'll need some version of git to get it ;). it should just check that you have a version less than the 9999 installed already...
12:24
<coldfusion>
odd
12:25
<beer30>
very
12:25
<ogra>
who created that ebuild ? nothing in ltsp ever used git
12:26
<beer30>
not sure... I never delved any deeper into it... it was late and I was tired ;)
12:29
... I could be wrong about which package pulled it in also... I didn't spend much time on it; just wanted to get past it and move on ya know?
12:32
<Ahmuck>
with ubuntu, i want to pull drives from the old server and put in the new one. looks like it's going to cost about 350.00 to fix what i've got
12:33
the drives have linux raid. does ubuntu re-configure the hardware upon bootup, or will i have to do a re-install?
12:34
<beer30>
I would guess it depends on how the raids were setup in the first place.
12:34
software raid or hardward raid?
12:35
<Ahmuck>
linux software raid
12:37
i did some research before i set it up. and linux software raid was consdered the best cost effective solution
12:37
though i've been told that md is trouble, and i should have a third drive that i'm dding to
12:37
<beer30>
If I remember correctly, Ubuntu 9.04 (which I am testing right now while I try and figure out this Gentoo setup) found my software raid right off the bat...
12:37
<Ahmuck>
so i should just be able to swap the mobo, proc, and psu?
12:38
<beer30>
I would think so.
12:40
although, I've never moved my raids to another machine before... so I can't be for sure. The only thing that might be a problem would be what drive controller it uses.
12:43
<Ahmuck>
would u suggest a dual core or a quad core?
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12:57
<beer30>
quad
12:57
bbl... I have some honey-doos to do :|
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16:11
<beer30>
anyone here to help with ltsp-build-client in Gentoo? I ran " ltsp-build-client --dist Gentoo --arch x86 --quickstart-debug --quickstart-verbose --stage-uri file:///stage3-i686-2008.0.tar.bz2 --purge-chroot" which was working quite well, then it errored out with some blocked packages.
16:11
[blocks B ] <sys-apps/sysvinit-2.86-r11 (is blocking sys-apps/openrc-0.4.3-r3)
16:11
[blocks B ] <sys-fs/udev-133 (is blocking sys-apps/openrc-0.4.3-r3)
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16:17
<beer30>
I assume part of this is from it wanting to install baselayout-2, but I am not sure what part of the build process this is from. I can edit the quickstart profile, but not sure where to make my changes.
16:23
I'm modifing the quickstart profile.qs and re-running ltsp-build-client. I'll update on my progress, but if anyone in the meantime wants to chime in.. I'm here :D
16:24
the re-run of ltsp-build-client might take awhile... but I did add -k to all the emerge lines in profile.qs hoping that it will use the prebuilt packages from the last run.
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17:06
<ksc654>
I'm trying to configure a ltsp server to authenticate against AD using winbind. I've been using the activedirectorywinbindhowto from the ubuntu community docs wiki.
17:07
I've gotten pretty far but I just can't seem to grok how all the pieces fit together.
17:08
Anybody willing to help me?
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17:25
<beer30>
FYI - if anyone is taking notes.... I got past the sysvinit & udev blockages, but now the ltsp-build-client script errors out with: "!!! All ebuilds that could satisfy "~sys-libs/e2fsprogs-libs-1.41.3" have been masked."
17:25
- sys-libs/e2fsprogs-libs-1.41.3-r1 (masked by: EAPI 2, invalid: SLOT is undefined)
17:26
I have never seen this... not sure how to continue. Googling and trolling Gentoo forums now.
17:27
more pertanent info from the error: The current version of portage supports EAPI '1'. You must upgrade to a newer version of portage before EAPI masked packages can be installed.
17:34
... according to the quickstart profile.qs file, in the pre_build_kernel section is says "# FIXME: upgrade to porage 2.2 to resolve blockers since 2008.0" However, portage-2.2 is keyword masked and is not included in the package.keywords file. I'm adding it right now and re-running ltsp-build-client... again.
17:37
Doh! portage-2.2 is hard masked as well.... according to /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask: "# Portage 2.2 is masked due to known bugs in the package sets and preserve-libs features."
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18:12
<beer30>
.... dis-regard all of that. It was because I was using the 2008.0 stage3.
18:15
OMG!... I'm about to lose it. now my ltsp-build-client has error'd out with: genkernel: command not found
18:15
:|
18:22
taking a break... be back later with more fun with LTSP 5 and Gentoo ;)
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20:21
<Lns>
apt-cache show cowsay
20:23
<Ryan52>
hah, nice.
20:29
<Lns>
saw that in a howto, heh
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20:46
<Ryan52>
howto for what?
20:46
0.o
20:49
<Lns>
apt-mirror
20:51
http://popey.com/blog/2006/10/24/Creating_an_Ubuntu_repository_mirror_with_apt-mirror/
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22:14
<ball>
I have some workstations that I'd like to turn into X terminals (if that's practical). They have 1 GHz VIA C3 processors, 1 Gbyte RAM, Unichrome (built into CLE266) graphics and currently they have hard disks, but they can PXE boot.
22:14
Does that sound workable?
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22:32
<Lns>
ball, sounds like a great ltsp client to me
22:33
iiwy i'd just verify the video chipset works well
22:38
<ball>
Lns: I seem to have to use VESA with XFree86. Haven't tried it with X.org yet
22:38
...but I believe X.org has a unichrome driver
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22:44
<ball>
Lns: Does LTSP include the software that is run on the X terminal?
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22:57* ball resorts to reading the manual
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