IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 December 2007   (all times are UTC)

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01:28
<johnny>
hi
01:33
<lns>
hi johnny
01:33
<johnny>
so.. i replicated a bug across old ldm and new ldm
01:33
new ldm with the patch from francis for autologin
01:34
the LDM_USERNAME, LDM_PASSWORD vars only seem to work if the lts.conf is in the chroot
01:34
<lns>
interesting
01:35
so /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/arch/lts.conf doesn't parse those vars?
01:35
<johnny>
so it seems
01:35
<lns>
weird
01:35
<johnny>
well it prolly parses them, but doesn't return them
01:35
or rather.. pass them along
01:35
<lns>
so where's the broken link then
01:35
cuz obviously other vars get returned
01:35
<johnny>
not sure yet
01:36
well it might be a manual list .. or maybe those get parsed differently
01:36
maybe they don't use env vars
01:36
i'll check into that next time i go in
01:36
<lns>
is LDM_UN/PW env vars?
01:36
<johnny>
yes
01:36
<lns>
s/is/are
01:36
ok... /me never has used autologin
01:37
<johnny>
i have two more things i want from it
01:37
timed autologin, and the ability of the first autologin patch
01:38
you could do LDM_USERNAME="hostname|"
01:38
<lns>
just out of curiosity, why do you use autologin? what's your environment?
01:38
<johnny>
which would make each chroot use it's hostname
01:38
public terminals
01:38
no user accounts
01:38
<lns>
ahh ok
01:38
right on
01:38
<johnny>
but they still need their own user for each machine
01:39
so i use dnsmasq to easily add the hostname /ip/ mac mapping
01:40
and then just create a user for it..
01:40
then all the machines have a fqdn and automatically login
01:40
<lns>
very cool
01:41
<johnny>
i would like to start allowing user accounts
01:41
thus the wanting of timed autologin
01:41
so they could login as themselves
01:41
still a few other things to work out
01:41
like the profile setup for our terminals
01:42
sabayon + pessulus are getting better... but still missing a few things
01:42
plus i need to figure out why firefox and epiphany keep consuming 100% cpu and make me have to kill it
01:43
<lns>
johnny, do you allow flash?
01:43
that would be my first guess
01:43
<johnny>
i want to
01:43
but i haven't yet
01:44
needs special setup for amd64 server
01:44
<lns>
heh
01:44* lns just reinstalled gutsy i386 after many months of trying to get flash/shockwave working on amd64
01:44
<johnny>
so.. no.. not yet :)
01:44
i already have it working on my gentoo box
01:44
can't be too much harder
01:44
<lns>
with ltsp?
01:44
<johnny>
no
01:44
<lns>
;)
01:44
good luck
01:44
<johnny>
buti read into the issues
01:45
seems solvable
01:45
with some hackery
01:45
<lns>
if you get it to work, please let me know
01:45
i built libflashsupport (revolution linux) source with help from ogra, but it still didn't give me sound
01:45
<johnny>
well.. if i could do this computer from scratch, i would go with i386
01:46
64bit isn't worth the hassle for such a setup
01:46
<lns>
flash worked fine for me with no sound..but if you need sound...oh man
01:46
<johnny>
luckily.. i don't need sound atm
01:47
<lns>
ahh well you should be ok then
01:47
<johnny>
i'll need it on my next venture
01:47
most likely
01:47
but then i will go with i386
01:47
<lns>
i was trying to avoid formatting/re-installing for the sole sake of adobe plugins...but i couldn't handle it anymore
01:48
<johnny>
well that's what sucks about relying on closed source software
01:48
just gotta wait it out
01:48
<lns>
unfortunately, some people never learned how to share =p
01:48
yep
01:48
<johnny>
it might be better with local apps
01:49
the only question is.. how bad do you want it? :)
01:49
<lns>
right..but with local apps you need more horsepower on the client...and at least with my setups, that's not available
01:49
well, my contract depends on it ;) fully working flash AND shockwave
01:49
<johnny>
i didn't even know shockwave worked in linux
01:49
<lns>
it doesn't... only under cxoffice
01:49
<johnny>
i rarely run into shockwave
01:50
you got that workin?
01:50
<lns>
without sound... ;)
01:50
<johnny>
that's odd
01:50
i would think that wine would solve that problem for you
01:50
<lns>
unfortunately my schools are tied to a couple of shockwave-rich educational sites for their curriculum
01:51
actually, now that i have i386 i might give wine a try again
01:51
it was way over my head trying to get cross-arch going with wine
01:51
<johnny>
yeah.. just go back
01:51
<lns>
that would be great if i could get it going, they didn't want to pay per-seat for cxoffice just for a browser plugin
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02:48
<Joelwork>
any Idea if I can setup thin clients with the netgear wg111t card?
02:48
do they support bootroms?
02:49
wg311t*
02:54
<johnny>
what is a netgear wg111t ?
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04:03
<Joelwork>
wg11t*
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07:17
<neil_d>
hi I have just installed ltsp on a ubuntu system. I was wondering how to setup a user login for a client ?
07:20
<cliebow_>
it uses server logins
07:20
<neil_d>
ok
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08:04
<mcfloppy_>
how can i define an extra xorg config for a ltsp5.0 client? in ltsp4.2 there was XF86Config_file = bla.conf in the lts.conf, but this doesn't work
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08:23
<cliebow_>
XF86CONFIG_FILE should be a good param...its path is relative to /opt/ltsp/$ARCH
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08:39
<cyberorg>
"i have no idea what
08:39
the problem is from but i figured my error would help yall with your project.
08:39
if you figure it out, let me know"
08:39
WOW
08:40
oops wrong window :P
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09:04
<cliebow_>
sbalneav:program ldmgtkgreeter received x window system error.error was BadWindow..this on ppc..mean anything to you??
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09:21
<neil_d>
I have setup ltsp on ubuntu 7.10 the client boots for about 30 seconds then stops :( just after the ubuntu splash screen disappears. anyone know why ?
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09:38
<sbalneav>
Morning all
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09:39
<sbalneav>
neil_d: Perhaps it's not detecting your video card?
09:39
neil_d: You might want to try XSERVER=vesa
09:39
cliebow_: No, never seen that before.
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09:44
<val_>
sbalneav may be you now how to start X fot ltsp-4.1? my log is " (EE)xf86OpenSerial: Cannot open device /dev/input/mice"
09:45
but lts.conf is ok
09:45
rdesktop also not started
09:45
<sbalneav>
val_: That doesn't sound like 4.1 We didn't use /dev/input back then. What does your X_MOUSE_DEVICE entry look like?
09:48
<val_>
<sbalneav> http://rafb.net/p/qT4XdO59.html
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09:49
<val_>
in this case i booting in a shell mode&
09:49
and after that do "startx"
09:49
<sbalneav>
And you're sure this is ltsp 4.1?
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09:52
<neil_d>
sbalneav, I think it can, but how do I try vesa ?
09:53
<sbalneav>
neil_d: By putting XSERVER=vesa in your lts.conf
09:53
<val_>
<sbalneav> http://rafb.net/p/4vfHf596.html i try install ltsp by ltspadmin (v4.2) from ftp://ltsp.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ltsp/ltsp-4.1/
09:54
<sbalneav>
val_: Well, that version of LTSP didn't use /dev/input/mice, so something's gotten it's wires crossed, I think.
09:56
<val_>
brrrr, repeat please in more simply words ))))
09:57
<sbalneav>
val_: What version of Linux are you doing this on?
09:58
<val_>
debian etch
09:58
vmware of course
09:58
<sbalneav>
I don't know anything about running LTSP under vmware.
09:58
Maybe that's messing something up.
09:59
<val_>
in shell mode it works fine
09:59
whati can do to repair?
10:00
sbalneav which is your version of ltsp?
10:00
<sbalneav>
Well, for starters, I would't use ltsp 4.2. I'd install ltsp-server-standalone, and use the ltsp 5 series.
10:00
I use ltsp5 exclusivly.
10:00
The ltsp developers have pretty much abandoned ltsp 4.x
10:01
<val_>
i have some problems when try download 4.2 from ftp
10:02
checksum was wrong
10:02
<sbalneav>
well, that would be a problem.
10:04
<neil_d>
putting XSERVER=vesa in the lts.conf file didn't work, I managed to get rid of the splash screen and it seems to stop when it says "starting ltsp client" or something like that.
10:04
<val_>
may be 5.0 helps me? how i can installed it? i have just copy 5&0 version to i386 and copy images to /tftpboot
10:04
but ltsp 5.0 not start
10:04
:(
10:05
<sbalneav>
neil_d: best be would be to start a shell screen with SCREEN_02=shell, and have a look in /var/log on the client.
10:06
<val_>
may be i forgotten something
10:06
<sbalneav>
val_: aptitude install ltsp-server-standalone && ltsp-build-client && ltsp-update-sshkeys
10:06
clean out /opt/ltsp first
10:09
<val_>
ok, now i started http://rafb.net/p/rJwWHz99.html
10:10
<ltsppbot>
"avena" pasted "ltsp-build-client usando repositorio local" (5 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/399
10:12
<val_>
sbalneav, which was the next step?
10:13
<sbalneav>
That one's going to take a while.
10:13
the ltsp-build-client's going to download a lot of things.
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10:16
<val_>
so pity, but i going in awawy mode/
10:16
<sbalneav> hope your advices willbe helpfull
10:17
thanks
10:17
<sbalneav>
NP
10:18
<val_>
but it stoped by this step http://rafb.net/p/1jIL8238.html
10:18
may be fierwall block me
10:19
<sbalneav>
Maybe. You know you're network better than I do :)
10:19
s/you're/your/
10:26
<neil_d>
sbalneav, didn't help much, must get some sleep, 3:26AM here, I will look into it again tomorrow.
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10:37
<mcfloppy_>
how can i define an extra xorg config for a ltsp5.0 client? in ltsp4.2 there was XF86Config_file = bla.conf in the lts.conf, but this doesn't work
10:38
<cliebow_>
sbalneav:i see a funny looking blackish mouse cursor then x fails..with that error..this is a ppc chroot and image sitting on an i386 machine serving ppc client..
10:41
<sbalneav>
mcfloppy_: X_CONF=
10:41
We shortened the name
10:42
<mcfloppy_>
sbalneav thank you
10:43
i gonna try ;)
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10:57
<MasterOne>
ok, weird issue: xorg is properly setup on the thin client including drm/dri, but glxinfo tells:
10:57
libGL error: open DRM failed (Operation not permitted)
10:57
libGL error: reverting to (slow) indirect rendering
10:57
which is weird, because according to http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/DriTroubleshooting this would indicate wrong permissions, which normally can be fixed with Section "DRI" Mode 0666 in xorg.conf, but that's already set in xorg.conf on the thin client. Any idea?
10:58
no ogra or Gadi around?
11:00
there has to be a solution or trick for this to work, because otherwise it would not have been possible to enable the use of compiz on a thin client, as already mentioned several times here in this channel
11:02
I assume the problem is, that an app like glxinfo tries to access drm/dri on the LTSP5 server, not on the thin client, but honestly I don't really have a clue how this operation with xserver running on the thin client exactly works
11:04
<sbalneav>
MasterOne: Are you using LDM_DIRECTX? Or tunnelling through ssh?
11:04
<MasterOne>
I assume ssh, it's a normal LTSP5-thinclient setup on Edubuntu Gutsy
11:07
ok, it's tunneling trough ssh of course
11:07
has that anything to do with it?
11:07
<sbalneav>
I'd try LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf.
11:08
I have no idea. Me, personally, I don't like the idea of GLX over the wire :)
11:08
But it's worth a try, anyway.
11:09
<MasterOne>
ok, I'll try now
11:09
is there a way to check, if it indeed is using an unencrypted connection?
11:10
but honestly, I can not imagine that this has anything to do with it, because it's just either encrypted or unencrypted connection, nothing else
11:11
<sbalneav>
Check your DISPLAY variable
11:11
if it's localhost:10 or similar, it's ssh
11:11
<MasterOne>
yes, it tells localhost:11.0 right now
11:11
<sbalneav>
if it's 192.168.0.25:6 or similar, it's LDM_DIRECTX
11:12
<MasterOne>
ok, I am going to reboot the client now, brb
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11:18
<MasterOne>
still no direct rendering :(
11:18
now it does not tell that permission error, but just direct rendering: No
11:18
~$ echo $DISPLAY
11:18
192.168.0.248:6.0
11:18
~$ glxinfo
11:18
name of display: 192.168.0.248:6.0
11:18
display: 192.168.0.248:6 screen: 0
11:18
direct rendering: No (If you want to find out why, try setting LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose)
11:19
as mentioned, there has to be a trick to get direct rendering to work on a thin client
11:19
who got compiz to work on a thin client?
11:20
Gadi?
11:20
ogra?
11:21
I am actually on a new test-setup, a pretty crappy workstation with onboard S3 Savage graphics as a thin client connected to a new 24" LCD with 1920x1200@60
11:21
<sbalneav>
MasterOne: What happens if you try running glxinfo on the client itself?
11:22
I don't think an S3 can do DRI anyway.
11:22
<MasterOne>
how can that be done? in a console it only tells "unable to open screen"
11:23
<Gadi>
Im in and out, but yes, even compz has a list of supported video cards
11:23
best to try with an intel-based one
11:23
<MasterOne>
sbalneav: Xorg.6.log tells that drm & dri are setup fine and working
11:23
Gadi :)
11:24
<sbalneav>
MasterOne: Xorg log says that, but what does glxinfo say?
11:24
<MasterOne>
this problem is about dri / drm setup on the thin client properly, but direct rendering nevertheless reported as "no" by glxinfo run on the server
11:24
<sbalneav>
I realize that.
11:25
<Gadi>
MasterOne: have you googled around about direct rendering with the S3 Savage or tried to get it to work with a liveCD?
11:25
<MasterOne>
sbalneav: I have no idea, how I can run glxinfo on the thin client
11:25
<sbalneav>
But I'd like to be assured that glxinfo on the local machine thinks it's ok.
11:25
<Gadi>
many drivers can be tricky to get it going if it is possible at all
11:25
<MasterOne>
Gadi: can it be wrong, if Xorg.log on the thin client tells it's working?
11:25
<Gadi>
DRI != glx direct rendering
11:26
afaik
11:26
they are 2 separate things
11:26
<MasterOne>
so how can I run glxinfo on the thin client?
11:26
<Gadi>
you need not
11:26
glxinfo run from the server or from the client is the same
11:26
it talks to the xserver
11:26
<MasterOne>
hm
11:27
<Gadi>
glx direct rendering usually requires glx-mesa packages and such
11:27
if you google about glxinfo and direct rendering
11:27
you should find lots of stuff
11:27
but, as I say, best to start with a supported video card for compiz
11:27
<MasterOne>
I thought, when Xorg.log tells drm OK and dri OK, it should be working
11:27
<Gadi>
which is I think in a list on their site
11:28
<MasterOne>
also when running the ssh tunneling, there was a permission error for glx, now without ssh tunneling it's just "direct rendering: No"
11:28
<sbalneav>
Me personally, I'd like to see glxinfo say it's working locally before I try to debug the remote connection, but hey, that's just me.
11:29
<Gadi>
you will almost definitely need DIRECTX
11:29
glx likes talking to the xserver
11:29
not through a proxy
11:29
<MasterOne>
sbalneav: I'd run glxinfo locally on the thin client, if I knew how to do it (because when I change to a console with ALT+F1, it just reports "unable to open display"
11:30
<Gadi>
the ssh proxy is fairly simplistic, but I don't think it handles any kind of acceleration very well
11:30
on the console of the client type:
11:30
export DISPLAY=:6
11:30
glxinfo
11:30
<stgraber>
MasterOne: did you try : DISPLAY=:6 glxinfo
11:30
or what Gadi said, that's the same
11:31
<MasterOne>
trying now
11:31
<sbalneav>
Morning, Gadi, btw :)
11:32
<Gadi>
morning, sbalneav
11:32
et. al.
11:32
actually, afternoon here
11:32
<cliebow_>
HOLY MOLY..durn thing worked..without touching anything
11:32
<stgraber>
though, IIRC you can have compiz working on a thin client using the glx thing, but not DRI for some reason (can't recall the exact ones)
11:33
<Gadi>
as I say, I do not believe glx direct rendering == DRI
11:33
<cliebow_>
sbalneav:interesting cursor icon you have..cant tell whether it is coming or going 8~)
11:34
<MasterOne>
ok, I was right, running glxinfo locally on the thin client confirms "direct rendering: Yes"
11:35
what now?
11:35
<stgraber>
Gadi: indeed, for compiz you basically need : GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap which is not == DRI
11:36
<Gadi>
MasterOne: perhaps you need glx mesa pkg installed on the server?
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11:37
<Gadi>
MasterOne: those who got it working were prolly using their laptop as the server and their laptop prolly had all the compiz stuff working
11:37
so, I would guess that there may be some glx package that you need on the server
11:37
but that is just a guess
11:37
<MasterOne>
libgl1-mesa-dri and libgl1-mesa-glx are both installed on the LTSP5 server
11:38
<Gadi>
especailly since glxinfo on the server does not report direct rendering
11:38
for kicks, can you try launching compiz?
11:39
<MasterOne>
I have no idea, how to launch compiz, and I think I should get direct rending to work on the LTSP5 server first
11:40
so right now glxinfo confirms on the thin client, that direct rendering is working, but not when run on the LTSP5 server, I have ssh tunneling disabled, no explicit error, but no direct rendering
11:42
I do not think, it makes any difference, which graphics card is used on the thin client at this point, it has to be something more generic, if anybody succeeded in running compiz in such a setup
11:44
<Gadi>
MasterOne: open a terminal window in your X session and type: compiz
11:44
<MasterOne>
without direct rendering the performance is pretty poor on a 1920x1200 screen, and for some reason I get distortions in form of flickering horizontal lines when moving a window
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11:46
<MasterOne>
ok, running compiz in a terminal window now
11:46
it printed some output
11:46
what now?
11:46
<Gadi>
did the window manager change?
11:46
<MasterOne>
No whitelisted driver found
11:47
aborting and using fallback: /usr/bin/metacity
11:47
<Gadi>
that will be a 'no';)
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11:47
<Gadi>
oops
11:47
hehe
11:47
http://www.compiz.org/Documentation/Documentation
11:47
<MasterOne>
Gadi, but that was to be expected, as long as glxinfo reports "direct rendering: No" on the server
11:48
<Gadi>
so, on this page, it talks about installing and configuring with ati, nvidia, and intel cards
11:48
nothing about s3
11:48
furthermore, i think you need flgrx or aiglx
11:48
<MasterOne>
aiglx is enabled according to the Xorg.log on the thin client
11:48
<Gadi>
ah, ok
11:48
hmm...
11:49
<MasterOne>
still, there is a step missing, if direct rendering YES on the thin client, but NO on the server
11:49
glxinfo on the server tells exactly:
11:49
direct rendering: No (If you want to find out why, try setting LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose)
11:50
where do I set this LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose and where would I see the extended output?
11:51
!pastebin
11:51
<ltspbot>
MasterOne: Error: "pastebin" is not a valid command.
11:51
<Gadi>
try typing: LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose glxinfo
11:52
<MasterOne>
libGL error: XF86DRIQueryDirectRenderingCapable returned false
11:52
on the server
11:53
<cliebow_>
good dgief..shouldnt work at all..without a crossover
11:53
s/dgief/grief
11:53
<MasterOne>
means?
12:02putty_thing`` has quit IRC
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12:07
<Gadi>
seems to suggest that the X query came back negative
12:07
:)
12:07
MasterOne: what happens if at the thin client console, you type:
12:07
export DISPLAY=<thinClientIP>:6
12:07
glxinfo
12:07
does that make any diff in the response?
12:07
<MasterOne>
ok, I'll try now
12:09scrapbunny has joined #ltsp
12:09
<MasterOne>
no difference, it still says "direct rendering: Yes"
12:09
<Gadi>
also, if you are using a static xorg.conf file on the client, try commenting out the line "load dri"
12:10
if it exists
12:10
<cliebow_>
wired..two ibooks off the same server//one shows badwindow error in ldmgtkgreter..the other works perfectly
12:10
<Gadi>
it could be that Xorg's core dri module is getting in the way
12:10
this happens on nvidia cards
12:10
<cliebow_>
Gadi:that is not directed at me is it??
12:11
<Gadi>
cliebow_: alas, no
12:11
<MasterOne>
ok, so I'll comment out Load "dri" in the Module section, and do a client reboot
12:11
<cliebow_>
but sometimes (twice anyway) the "bad one worked perfectly
12:11
brb
12:12cliebow_ has quit IRC
12:13
<MasterOne>
rebooting now, brb
12:13MasterOne has quit IRC
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12:16
<scrapbunny>
hi is there an active irc channel for people testing hardy?
12:17
<MasterOne>
Gadi, commenting out Load "dri" did not change anything
12:19
<Gadi>
still direct on console and not on server?
12:19cliebow__ has joined #ltsp
12:19
<MasterOne>
yes
12:20
<Gadi>
MasterOne: have you tested compiz on that video card with a liveCD?
12:20
<cliebow__>
wierd:reboot of server and they both come up first time.....brb
12:20
<Gadi>
it would be great to know that it works locally first
12:22
<MasterOne>
Gadi, no, didn't try that, but what's the point, if it is about direct rending working locally on the thin client, but not on the server? I was not explicitly trying to get compiz working, but just direct rendering at first
12:22cliebow__ has quit IRC
12:22
<MasterOne>
since dri/drm/aiglx are all reported to be working and setup properly on the thin client, that should not be the issue
12:23
<johnny>
hi
12:23
<Gadi>
a valid point
12:23
<MasterOne>
but the server still reporting direct rendering not to be working
12:23
there has to be a solution for this
12:23
<Gadi>
perhaps there is code in the s3 driver that differentiates between remote glx connections and local ones?
12:23
<scrapbunny>
hi johnny
12:24
<Gadi>
MasterOne: you need to trace why the X query fails
12:24
<MasterOne>
how would I do that?
12:24daya has joined #ltsp
12:25
<MasterOne>
too bad, that I have no more time to investigate right now, but I have my ThinkPad with ati graphics as well, which I know is working with compiz using the Xorg radeon driver
12:25
<Gadi>
perhaps look at the s3 code and see how it handles the XF86DRIQueryDirectRenderingCapable query
12:25
<MasterOne>
but that experiment will have to wait
12:25
<Gadi>
ok
12:25
<MasterOne>
ok, got to leave now (not that I want, but wife is making me to)
12:25
;)
12:26
<Gadi>
:)
12:26MasterOne has quit IRC
12:26
<Gadi>
tell her, she'll get her eye candy
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12:29
<acadiadoherty>
hmmm....
12:31cliebow__ has joined #ltsp
12:31
<cliebow__>
hmm...yourself..
12:31
<acadiadoherty>
bye
12:31
<cliebow__>
bye
12:32acadiadoherty has quit IRC
12:32
<johnny>
so, i got autologin working according to francis` patch
12:32
but, the LDM_USERNAME and PASSWORD vars only work if the lts.conf is inside the chroot
12:33
<cliebow__>
stupid g3::only goes to login on first try..
12:36
<Gadi>
johnny: sounds like your tftpboot lts.conf is in the wrong place
12:36
or you are not using gutsy
12:36
<johnny>
the rest of the vars work
12:36
it seems
12:37
i have it /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/
12:37
<Gadi>
thats right
12:37
its impossible for some to work and others not to
12:37
make sure you dont have typos in the tftpboot
12:37
one
12:37
<daya>
johnny, can you please decribe or give link about the auto logins patch
12:37
<johnny>
it's in the bug
12:38
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/161794
12:38
i just copied it
12:38
and as soon as i copied it outside it stopped working
12:39
hmm.. i'm also having trouble figuring out what specifies which versions of software the chroot gets
12:40
<Gadi>
?
12:40
<johnny>
my chroot has it's own pango
12:40
for ldm i assume
12:40
<Gadi>
your chroot has its own everything
12:40
<johnny>
but it's different than the system version
12:40
<Gadi>
sure
12:41
can be
12:41
<johnny>
so the first couple packages i made didn't work
12:41
<Gadi>
by default, the chroot only has the main and restricted gutsy repo
12:41
<johnny>
and not knowing *deb stuff very well
12:41
<Gadi>
not ubuntu-updates
12:41
<johnny>
sure.. but pango should be in main
12:41
oh..
12:41
<Gadi>
etc
12:41
<johnny>
so it'll only get the default ubuntu install for the distro?
12:41
minus all the updates
12:42
<Gadi>
you can always copy your /etc/apt/sources.list to $chroot/etc/apt/sources.list
12:42
and upgraade
12:42
if you want themto be the same
12:42
<johnny>
well that's prolly not a good solution for folks who just want to install a fixed ldm
12:42
<Gadi>
cat /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list
12:42
you will see
12:42
<johnny>
atm it just required lowering the pango deps in the ldm file
12:42
forcing them lower that is
12:42
somehow that worked
12:43
this was my first *deb.. i'd only messed with ebuilds previously
12:43
<Gadi>
well, it just means your server has newer pkgs and when you compiled your own ldm it had newer deps
12:43
<johnny>
yes
12:43
so, now everything works :)
12:43
<Gadi>
in general, if you forsee yourself compiling your own pkgs on the server for the chroot, then it makes sense to try to keep the chroot uptodate with the server
12:44
*foresee
12:46* Gadi thinks the reason ltsp-build-client doesnt grab the server's sources.list file is so that: 1. you are sure that the person doesnt have a broken sources file, and 2. everybody with a fresh build always has the same collection of pkgs
12:47
<johnny>
yes, but then,if you built a package for the chroot, you force people to upgrade it unnecessarily
12:47
so i'd rather try to cater to the chroot
12:47
<Gadi>
well, then we'll send all the increased support questions your way ;)
12:49
<johnny>
i think it would lower support issues
12:49
especially for folks who aren't me .. they wouldn't know somebody upgraded their chroot
12:50
<Gadi>
whoever is providing you with non-distro packages that you install by hand and not through a repository had best tell you what the system reqs are
12:50
what you suggest would have a lot of "ltsp-build-client fails for me... I cannot build the chroot..."
12:50
along with "I have a problem with pkg xyz in the chroot"
12:51
well, your chroot is different from everybody else's in the world
12:51
so, we cant help you
12:51
even if you do a fresh install
12:51
:)
12:51
<johnny>
hmm.. luckily i'm not distroing it atm
12:51
i would like scott to get a cleaner patch in tho
12:51
of autologin, for hardy
12:51
or really for upstream in general
12:52
<Gadi>
indeed
12:52* johnny learned a lot lately
12:52
<johnny>
i got all the building stuff working nicely
12:52
got virtualbox for server and thinclient
12:52
works very nicely really
12:54
<Gadi>
cool
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12:54
<johnny>
hopefully i can contribut something to ltsp along the line
12:55
i'll try to get you a log of my session where i try moving it outside and back in the chroot
12:55
lts.conf that is
12:56
<Gadi>
ok: FYI: the initramfs will tftp your lts.conf in the tftpboot dir to the client and overwrite the chroot's /etc/lts.conf
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12:56
<Gadi>
so, there's no way some params can work and others not
12:56
<johnny>
only if it doesn't exist
12:56
according to the doc in the file that is
12:56
<Gadi>
no, even if it does
12:56
its a unionfs on the thin client
12:56
<johnny>
the doc says the internal one will override the outside
12:57
<Gadi>
really?
12:57
<johnny>
yes
12:57
<Gadi>
huh
12:57
that makes no sense
12:57
<johnny>
or maybe
12:57
aha.. now i remember
12:57
<Gadi>
the internal one always exists
12:57
<johnny>
it just says it will be used if the outside one doesnt' exist
12:57
<Gadi>
right
12:57
<johnny>
it doesn't say anything about merging them tho
12:58
<Gadi>
because it doesnt merge
12:58
the tftpboot one overrides the internal one
12:58
if it exists
12:58
<johnny>
so, i should leave the empty one, and not move it?
12:58
would that cause a problem?
12:59
<Gadi>
probably
12:59
<johnny>
hmm, i'll test that tonight
12:59
when i go into work
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13:06
<Q-FUNK>
heh
13:06
X.org really is a hopeless case
13:07
<scrapbunny>
dumb newbie question- when installing edubuntu server isn't eth0 for the thin clients and eth1 for the internet?
13:07
<Q-FUNK>
I dropped by with a Gutsy CD to try various new laptops at a computer store. none of them would work. X kept reporting "screens found but none with usable mode". they were all XWGA.
13:07putty_thing`` has quit IRC
13:08
<johnny>
scrapbunny, not always
13:08
XWGA should just work, that is odd
13:08
you mean actually WXGA?
13:08
<Q-FUNK>
erm, WXGA
13:08
<johnny>
err i forget
13:09
<Q-FUNK>
yup. 1280x800
13:09
<johnny>
that's very odd
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13:09
<lns>
ogra!
13:09
<johnny>
it should work in vesa at least
13:09
<scrapbunny>
i will try it the other way around then because i have something wrong
13:09* lns applauds
13:09
<Q-FUNK>
the mod eexists, but it won't even work on that hardware with fbdev or vesa.
13:09
<johnny>
that makes no sense..
13:10
try another distro
13:10
for comparison
13:10
like knoppix
13:10putty_thing`` has joined #ltsp
13:10
<Q-FUNK>
knoppix is likely even more outdated than Gutsy
13:10
<johnny>
it used to be pretty up to date
13:12
i haven't been paying attention tho
13:12
try another distro then, or something
13:12
<Q-FUNK>
it would need to be in some livecd format, as not to damage the installed vista on the demo unit at the shop.
13:12
<johnny>
yes
13:13
try it with DSL maybe :)
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13:22
<Q-FUNK>
Gadi: would you have time to try to get a log of the failure and pitch it over to the xorg-geode list?
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14:41
<cliebow__>
sbalneav:heh..on a g3 the cursor is <>..on a g4 a normal arrow..
14:43
Boy this is awesome stuff
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15:33
<Q-FUNK>
warren: can you come to #thincan ?
15:36scrapbunny has joined #ltsp
15:38
<scrapbunny>
so i tried to install the edubuntu daily today but my install failed at the software and ltsp install :(
15:39joebake1 has joined #ltsp
15:39
<johnny>
don't :(
15:39
that's why it's called a daily :)
15:39
sounds like a dev thing
15:40
<scrapbunny>
hehe-true
15:42
sound i try the ubuntu alternate or ubuntu server instead of the edubuntu server daily?
15:42
sorry, should i
15:42
<johnny>
why?
15:42
why use a daily
15:42
you shouldn't touch them it sounds like
15:43
unless you are trying to fix things
15:44
<scrapbunny>
i basically want to try to help see if it will work, to give hardy at east one more tester
15:46
also want to provide input to the team as an "average user"
15:46
<sbalneav>
scrapbunny: Excellent.
15:47meduxa has quit IRC
15:49
<scrapbunny>
i was excited to see the software option during the install, letting you pick if you wanted to add restricted repos and such, but it failed using the mirror and without the mirror
15:50
the last 2 options for boot loaders are confusing for a newbie. i knew i wanted grub boot loader but wasn't sure on the second one
15:51putty has quit IRC
15:52
<stgraber>
scrapbunny: oh, is it proposing grub2 ?
15:53putty has joined #ltsp
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15:54
<scrapbunny>
you know i have it writen down in the server room and i am in my lab
16:00Gadi has left #ltsp
16:03
<scrapbunny>
it wasn't grub2 it was a weird name i haven't seen
16:12
<johnny>
sbalneav, howdy
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17:20
<vagrantc>
well, i have a proof of concept for cleaner handling of ltspfs mounts ....
17:21
lbmount basically just makes a temporary directory, chowns/chmods it so the user has write access, and then "mount -n --bind"s it to /media/USERNAME
17:22
ltspfsmounter creates /media/USERNAME/DEVICE and mounts directly there.
17:22
have yet to test how it works with GNOME/KDE, but works great with regular filesystem access.
17:23
this is the fruit of 2.5 days on trains + laptop with decent battery life + virtualbox
17:27ace_suares has joined #ltsp
17:27
<ace_suares>
hi all
17:27
!seen ogra
17:27
<ltspbot>
ace_suares: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 22 hours, 24 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <ogra> indeed
17:27
<ace_suares>
bot ?
17:28
<johnny>
yes
17:28
lol
17:28
vagrantc, neat
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18:07
<ace_suares>
i have a weird problem. anyone there to help think about it ?
18:07
<vagrantc>
!question
18:07
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can.
18:07
<ace_suares>
come on vagrantc
18:07
:-0
18:07
I know !question
18:08
I just don't knwo if anyone's awake
18:08
but you are :-)
18:08
weird thing is thios
18:08* vagrantc doesn't see how it would be helpful to wait till someone responds
18:08* ace_suares has tot ype in long question all the time
18:08
<vagrantc>
it's much more likely to pique interest if people know what the issue is
18:08
<ace_suares>
on the server, all is well
18:09
but on the tc, gnome starts, but you can't click on ANY meny item or desktop item
18:09
yu can do alt-f2 and start a program
18:09
but sometimes, when the program gives an error, the error box won't go away and the only thing is restarting
18:09
now, isn't that a weird thing ?
18:10
I googled a bit and looked in the handbook
18:10
but it seems to me, must be something very weird with permission or so ?
18:10
since the same user can do everything fine on the server...
18:10* ace_suares finished typing long question, now see if anyone repsonds :-)
18:11
<ace_suares>
vagrantc: normally, there's a lot more activity on this channel too :-)
18:11
ps I am runnig gutsy ubuntu
18:11
has anyone ever heard of such a thing ?
18:12
<johnny>
not on my setup
18:12
my main problem is firefox
18:12
<lns>
ace_suares, have you tried this with a newly created user?
18:12
<johnny>
firefox won't stay closed
18:12
err rather
18:13
<ace_suares>
johnny: not on any of my 20 or so setups that i did before !
18:13
<johnny>
a user will close firefox, but then won't be able to reopen it
18:13
<ace_suares>
lns: yes, and with the admin user, same results
18:13
<johnny>
turns out it doesn't always die when you hit the X
18:13IRCzito has quit IRC
18:13
<ace_suares>
johnny: is firefox still runnign in the bg
18:13
<lns>
ace_suares, have you tried changing themes?
18:14
<ace_suares>
lns: not yet, but indeed when googling i found some problems reported with metacity, IIRC
18:14
<johnny>
yes
18:14
but i hve no idea why
18:14
<ace_suares>
On another server, clean gutsy install with ltsp-standalone added, no problems toough with the standard theme
18:14
<johnny>
it works fine outside of lktsp
18:14
<ace_suares>
johnny: I also don't know why, sorry !
18:14
<lns>
ace_suares, sounds def. like a WM issue - try and think of something that might have caused this to happen that you did/modified
18:15
sounds very out of the ordinary
18:15
<vagrantc>
ace_suares: try with a different window manager?
18:15
<johnny>
does everybody notice this issue with firefox?
18:15
or just a few people
18:15
<ace_suares>
lns: hmm... where do I get to change gnome into kde ? On the login screen, the preferences button don't work neither !
18:15
<lns>
johnny, i've seen 'hanging' firefox procs on one of my gutsy amd64 servers...are you running ff32 on amd64?
18:16
<johnny>
the server is a desktop, and it runs firefox32, but only the folks actually on the "desktop" use it
18:16
so they can use flash
18:16
flash is unavaiable on the clients atm
18:17
they use the normal /usr/bin/firefox
18:17
<lns>
ace_suares, did you change anything in gconf?
18:17
<johnny>
which is the amd64
18:17
<ace_suares>
lns not that I know of
18:17
<johnny>
this is prolly the worst issue
18:17
that we have
18:17
<ace_suares>
I might have been toying with pessulus or lockdown or saybon or something, buit uninstalled them
18:18
<johnny>
but you still have thier contents
18:18
perhaps delete /etc/desktop-profiles contents
18:18
then again..
18:18
it won't run sabayon-apply
18:18
but i don't know how it interacts with /etc/skels in any case
18:19
<ace_suares>
i have /etc/desktopprofiles with one file in it, rrrr.zip, and inside is metadata, that is practically empty.
18:19
<lns>
ace_suares, pessulus changes things in gconf... if you did something in there it might have screwed up mandatory/default settings for all users...although if they can do things on the server console fine, then it sounds more like a thin-client issue
18:19
<ace_suares>
I can tro it away,
18:19
lns: i agree, the problems only on the tc
18:19
but on the server, the first login, some applets crash.
18:20
the second login, the applets are fine
18:20
<lns>
ace_suares, i've had that happen...the OFID:: thingie
18:20
<ace_suares>
OFID ?
18:20
yeah maybe
18:20
I don't recall
18:20
<lns>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-applets/+bug/164804 ?
18:21
I'm pretty sure there's a global gconf command to reset everything to defaults..but i don't recall what it is
18:21
but again..if it only appears on thin clients...
18:21
are they all the same hardware?
18:21
did you modify anything in the chroot?
18:21
<ace_suares>
lns: it's only one tc
18:22
<lns>
so what's the diff between this one tc and the others?
18:22
<ace_suares>
a stadard disklessworkstation machine that works fine on another server with a clean install of gutsy/ltsp
18:22
<lns>
hardware / customization wise
18:22
<ace_suares>
lns: none, it's only one tc total :-)
18:22
<lns>
oh
18:22
well
18:22
so it's "all" thin clients? =p
18:22
<ace_suares>
lns: jus testing
18:22vagrantc has quit IRC
18:22
<lns>
have you tried any other ones?
18:23
<ace_suares>
yeah, no didn't try other ones this one works fine on the other server
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18:23
<lns>
ok...well it *could* be assumed that any thin client attached to this server will have the same behavior
18:23
<ace_suares>
I have a lot of Tracker directories for that user in /tmp
18:23
<lns>
but that's not verified
18:24
<ace_suares>
lns: you right. but hey. it's a tc that works well on another server. It's half-verified I owuld say :)
18:24
<lns>
ace_suares, IIWY I'd remove the tracker/deskbar-applet packages all together, they have caused many issues on my servers alone with nautilus
18:24
<ace_suares>
I just wondered if someone had this happen and knew where to look.
18:24
<lns>
i haven't, sorry
18:24
just tryin to work w/you
18:25
<ace_suares>
lns: didn't even know that and why tracker was installed it's part of a standard install ?
18:25
I'll zap it soon.
18:25
<lns>
are there any runaway processes?
18:25
<ace_suares>
lns: yeah i know you are woking with me and I am grateful
18:25
lns: no, well, there were the first time when i tried to open and close lots of stuff with alt-f2
18:25
but 'normally' no, no ruanaways.
18:26
What I don't get, is *how* the wm would know it's coming from a tc since it's all over ssg
18:26
What I don't get, is *how* the wm would know it's coming from a tc since it's all over ssh
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18:26
<ace_suares>
I'll try with another them or kde now if that works...
18:26
them=theme
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18:27
<lns>
just seems really weird that basic functionality won't work (clicking on menu items)
18:27
<ace_suares>
thanks for the help so far! (It must be something on this server that is different from other servers...)
18:27
lns: yeah the menu and the desktop are totally frozen
18:27
<lns>
but alt+f2 works fine, things are speedy when launching from that?
18:28
<ace_suares>
But you can still start things with alt-f2
18:28
I just can't get my mind around that.
18:28
lns: speedy, yes!
18:28
lns: normall speed.
18:28
<lns>
stupid question - have you tried another mouse?
18:28
<ace_suares>
when I start gcompris, it works but when that starts tuxpaint, it's veeeeery slow
18:29
<lns>
does clicking on *anything* work?
18:29
<ace_suares>
lns; mouse seems to work inside apps, just okay ...
18:29
<lns>
ok
18:29
<ace_suares>
also, f10 key don't work to access the gnome menu
18:29
f10 is the standard key yes..
18:29
<lns>
you got me..that's really weird
18:30
IIWY I'd parse my brain on what I changed that could have anything to do with the symptoms
18:30
drill out of the bubble and just keep troubleshooting with taking other variables out - try another thin client, try a new user, etc
18:31
maybe rebuild your chroot/re-create your image
18:31
<ace_suares>
lns: okay i understand your method... tough it would be still nicer for someone to say, oh, just export MAKE_TC_WORKAGAIN=1
18:32
but it looks like it's a fluke.
18:32
I'll briddle with it for a while.
18:32
<lns>
heh..
18:32
if it were only that easy for everything. =p but i'm just me, and maybe someone else has run into that situation before.
18:32
Got to run...bbl
18:32
<ace_suares>
bye !
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18:59
<vagrantc>
my latest attempt to get ltspfs mounted directly to /media/USERNAME/: bzr get http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltspfs/ltspfs-direct-mount/
18:59
significantly reduces the setuid root code
18:59
still need to test how it interacts with GNOME (and KDE)
19:02
sbalneav: why was lbmount written in C ? was python just deemed "insecure" ?
19:03
i was trying to re-write lbmount in python, since my C is so poor i just barely was able to piece together what i was changing in lbmount.c
19:03
but i couldn't figure out how to handle the setuid code
19:09
apparently, running python scripts setuid is frowned upon even more than setuid in general
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19:22
<ari_stress>
morning all
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20:36
<daya>
vagrantc, ltsp-build-client \ --extra-mirror "http://pkg-ltsp.alioth.debian.org/debian etch-ltsp-backports main" \ --apt-key /etc/apt/trusted.gpg,
20:36
vagrantc, while doing so I got this error W: Failure while configuring base packages.
20:36
error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
20:37
vagrantc, any solution for it, is it bug?
20:38
<vagrantc>
daya: lsb_release --id
20:38
usually, you get messages like that if your mirror is broken
20:38
or if the download failed for some reason
20:38
daya: dpkg -l 'ltsp*'
20:39
<daya>
vagrantc, nepalinux:/var/cache/apt# lsb_release --id
20:39
Distributor ID: Debian
20:43
vagrantc, http://ltspbot.pastebin.org/11546,
20:43
vagrantc, sorry not for exact pastebin
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20:45
<daya>
vagrantc, actually I iam doing so in chrooted env. that I am going to include in LIve cd
20:46
<vagrantc>
daya: can't get to the pastebin.org URL you gave
20:47
daya: ok, got it... was just slow
20:48
<daya>
vagrantc, ok me have slow net connection
20:49
<vagrantc>
daya: if you could paste the full log, i'd have a better idea of what was wrong
20:49
<daya>
vagrantc, log mean whole error message
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20:50
<vagrantc>
daya: the whole ltsp-build-client output
20:51
<daya>
vagrantc, at the beginning after the retrieval of some pkg it says I: Found additional base dependencies: libgcrypt11 libgpg-error0 liblzo1 libopencdk8 tasksel
20:51
vagrantc, but when I see for these pkg they are installed,
20:52
and at last I got this, W: Failure while configuring base packages.
20:52
error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
20:54
vagrantc, I have done ltsp-build-client , remotely yesterday, so I can't present whole o/p
20:54
<vagrantc>
daya: yes, could you get me all of the stuff between "ltsp-build-client --" to "error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally"
20:54
daya: well, next time, that would be useful to have.
20:54
<daya>
vagrantc, ok
20:56
<vagrantc>
daya: the error message you gave me says very little
20:59
<daya>
vagrantc, as soon as I reach office, I will do it, and post the whole error message,
21:00
<vagrantc>
daya: the whole log ... not just the error message
21:00
<daya>
vagrantc, ok
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22:23
<ltsppbot>
"lns" pasted "asdf" (15 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/401
22:23
<lns>
sorry wrong chan =p
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22:33infoshopkeeper is now known as johnny_
22:33
<johnny_>
hi
22:34
<lns>
sup johnny
22:35
<johnny_>
ok.. i now i have proof that autologin only works if it's inside the chroot
22:35
i just tested again
22:35
<lns>
haha
22:35
nice
22:35
<johnny_>
too bad gadi isn't here
22:36
ok, so what's the proper way to make it stop asking to choose which keyboard setting?
22:36
gnome or x
22:36
that's the only marred thing with autologin itself
22:37
<lns>
i've had that, never really figured it out
22:38
i seemed to get that when i logged in w/the same user on the server/vnc then a thin client
22:38
<johnny_>
keep crashing sabayon :(
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22:45
<johnny_>
i'm just gonna have to head home
22:46
hopefuly i can replicate this later
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22:58
<jgbillings>
trying to get an s3virge working on ltsp 5
22:59
should i be looking int the lts.conf or the xorg file in the chroot?
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22:59
<jgbillings>
thin client boots but can't get x working
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23:56
<lns>
jgbillings, lts.conf
23:56
remember the location changed