IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 6 January 2014   (all times are UTC)

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00:06
<rkwesk>
how does one set the server with Ubuntu 12.04 so that fat clients can use server's printer?
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06:15* alkisg waves to vagrantc
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06:21
<vagrantc>
alkisg: tested your latest commits a bit
06:21
<alkisg>
How are they?
06:21
(they work for me with 12.04 + ltsp-pnp...)
06:22
<vagrantc>
seem fine
06:22
haven't tried real hard to break anything
06:23
it doesn't handle nbd links, but i think we should just remove support for that
06:23
<alkisg>
nbi? yeah...
06:23
<vagrantc>
er, yeah, it's so deprecated i can't even type it
06:24
<alkisg>
Are we going to remove all ifcpu64* related code from update-kernels (+ .conf) in ltsp6?
06:24
Hehe
06:24
<vagrantc>
i guess with the symlinks it's easy enough to document with an example pxelinux.cfg/default
06:25
<alkisg>
I think it's also more of a server-side setting, than a chroot setting
06:25
Same with menu=true, timeout etc
06:26
Before the 14.04 feature freeze (== last import from testing), I'd like to commit some upstream changes, that I don't yet commit because they'll break compatibility with 12.04 (e.g. remove plymouth:force-splash)
06:26
<vagrantc>
yeah, it's not chroot specific
06:26
although one of the reasons i moved the code into the chroot was some architectures didn't support pxelinux, so no sense having it generate menus there
06:26
<alkisg>
So, it'd be nice if you and stgraber could come up with a deadline for the last 14.04 commits...
06:26
<vagrantc>
when's the freeze deadline?
06:27
<alkisg>
In ltsp6 we won't have any pxelinux configuration in the chroot at all, so it'll be ok to do it all server-side
06:27
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule ...
06:27
... 16 February 6th Debian Import Freeze
06:27
And I guess it needs 10 days to migrate from sid to testing?
06:28
<vagrantc>
yeah, and syslinux-common is now architecture all, so you could install it foreign architecture server.
06:28
back when i moved that code into the chroot, it made more sense
06:28
alkisg: if all goes well, only 5 days now
06:28
alkisg: the speed things up a bit ... so we can break things faster.
06:29
<alkisg>
Cool. So I guess we have about 3 weeks for whatever feature we want to have the same in 14.04 + jessie
06:29
...unless 14.04 has the last ltsp5.5, and jessie has ltsp6 :)
06:29
<vagrantc>
well, jessie gets another 8 or so months of development
06:29
<alkisg>
Sure, I'm not talking about stopping development
06:30
In the greek schools ppa we'll be using the debian ltsp version again
06:30
<vagrantc>
might even explore ltsp6 alongside ltsp5 ...
06:30
<alkisg>
...and I think many ubuntu ltsp users started using that ppa... so it's possible that the debian version of ltsp has more users than the ubuntu version, even on ubuntu :)
06:30
<vagrantc>
or at least develop ltsp6 in experimental until it's ready
06:30
heh
06:31
<alkisg>
I vote that we focus on what we can do with ltsp5.5 for the next 3 weeks, and start ltsp6 after that
06:32
<vagrantc>
there are a few hopefully simple hooks i'd like to add to ltsp-client-core init script, and maybe splitting ltsp-update-kernels into modules/plugins/etc.
06:33
and/or update-kernels...
06:33
but maybe that's too invasive at this point, save that energy for ltsp6
06:33
<alkisg>
update-kernels should be really simple in ltsp6, I don't think it's worth the trouble
06:33
For ltsp-update-kernels, sure
06:33
I mean, if we drop support for pxe menus, for nbi etc, there's not much left in update-kernels
06:34
<vagrantc>
but with dropping nbi support, i'd like to at least make it possible to add a plugin hook ... although honestly, they could make their own kernel.post*.d hook.
06:34
at least on debian stuff
06:34
<alkisg>
They can already add a hook from /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf, we source that
06:34
<vagrantc>
does it do the ${0}.conf.d/ stuff ?
06:35
<alkisg>
We have conf.d support?! :)
06:35* alkisg didn't realize that...
06:35
<vagrantc>
for some tools
06:35
<alkisg>
We have automatic sourcing of ${tool}.conf
06:35
I didn't know about $tool.conf.d...
06:35
<vagrantc>
look at ltsp-common-functions
06:36
<alkisg>
Cool
06:36
So yeah it applies to all tools
06:36
<vagrantc>
anything that sources that
06:37
although a lot of the features people want aren't strictly "configuration" values
06:37
<alkisg>
Noone prevents them from putting functions inside conf.d
06:37
<vagrantc>
putting everything into the configuration file sourcing doesn't give much flexibility with order of calling things
06:38
<alkisg>
Sure, for the big scripts we need hook ponits
06:38
*points
06:38
But for update-kernels, I don't think we do... I don't mind if we put a few hooks, but I don't think they're needed
06:40
I'm not even sure of what will be left inside update-kernels once we remove pxelinux and nbi
06:40
Just yaboot?
06:42* alkisg wants to generate a grub.cfg entry for ltsp clients, but he'd do that from /etc/grub.d, not from update-kernels...
06:43
<alkisg>
Actually, if yaboot is a text file, maybe that needs to be done server-side too?
06:45
Ah, update-kernels calls mkimage for armhf/armel... if that still works, it's _one_ useful thing it does :)
07:13
<vagrantc>
yaboot isn't a text file
07:14
the mkimage for armhf/armel is not very reliable
07:14
it only works for specific platforms
07:14
none that i'm aware of, although stgraber tested it on one specific board.
07:14
my guess is it works for a single board
07:16
alkisg: so if all that's left is yaboot, pxelinux (for 5.x) and maybe some grumbly person who wants nbi back ...
07:16
alkisg: and the ability to add board-specific hooks for arm* would be really nice.
07:16
so really, i'd just drop some specific hooks into that dir.
07:17
split all the current code into a few hooks, which leaves room for expansion upstream or experimentation for individuals with specific needs.
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07:18
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yaboot's pretty much like pxelinux ... it's got a binary boot loader that gets downloaded over the network, and then it reads a configuration file over the network
07:18
and then the bootloader downloads the kernel + initrd, sets boot params, etc.
07:18
<alkisg>
vagrantc: then each chroot should only specify that it supports yaboot, possible through CMDLINE_YABOOT, and the server-side could do the rest?
07:19
<vagrantc>
alkisg: but the commandline arguments are the same no matter what bootloader you use...
07:19
<alkisg>
Or, the chroot needs to provide that binary root loader?
07:19
<vagrantc>
although IPAPPEND is specificc
07:19
yaboot is oonly available architecture-specific, so yeah, it needs to provide the bootloader.
07:19
in the chroot
07:20
<alkisg>
OK then ltsp-update-kernels could check if the bootloader is there, to see if yaboot is supported..
07:20
update-kernels doesn't need to do anything at all...
07:20
<vagrantc>
right
07:20
<alkisg>
So update-kernels in ltsp6 will only do armel?
07:20
<vagrantc>
armel?
07:20
<alkisg>
armhf/armel, with mkimage
07:21
<vagrantc>
don't even necessarily need mkimage for many platforms
07:21
<alkisg>
mkimage -A arm -O linux -T kernel -C none -a 0x80008000 -e 0x80008000 \
07:21
<vagrantc>
depends on what version of u-boot is on the board.
07:21
alkisg: that's board-specifiic.
07:21
sort of.
07:21
<alkisg>
What I mean is that I don't see any other code in update-kernels that we would keep in ltsp6
07:22
We'll remove pxelinux, nbi, yaboot... what's left?!
07:22
<vagrantc>
alkisg: those memory addresses are different for nearly each and every board.
07:22
<alkisg>
mkimage can be ran server-side too?
07:22
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so ltsp-update-kernels will generate yaboot.conf, and copy the bootloader out of the chroot?
07:22
<alkisg>
Right ^...
07:22
<vagrantc>
mkimage, if needed at all, could be run server-side, yes.
07:23
<alkisg>
OK then we don't need update-kernels at all, it won't do anything in ltsp6
07:23
<vagrantc>
that would be nice.
07:23
<alkisg>
And btw, nbi images can be generated server-side as well?
07:23
(if they ever worked, that is...)
07:24
<vagrantc>
it's only available on x86* (and ia64, but that's dead)
07:25
it might be worth having an in-chroot hook available, even if by default it doesn't run anything.
07:26
but that'd probably be pretty distro-specific
07:26
not sure what all else would be needed, though.
07:27
though, there are on debian at least hooks for the kernel postinst and initramfs-tools ... don't know about other distros, but that ought to be plenty.
07:27
<alkisg>
We'll need update-kernels.conf, we it's worth it to have an update-kernels script, even if all it does is execute a hook that doesn't exist by default :)
07:27
s/we/so/
07:29
<vagrantc>
any ltsp-update-image needs some sort of hooks or plugins ... i.e. pxelinux, yaboot, u-boot(?), etc.
07:29
which we may or may not provide
07:29
<alkisg>
ltsp-update-kernels, right?
07:29
<vagrantc>
yes.
07:29
:)
07:29
<alkisg>
Yeah, since it even loop-mounts squashfs images, it's nice to have hooks there
07:30
<vagrantc>
it'd also break up the code into more bite-sized chunks
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07:31
<alkisg>
Yes, I plan on adding support for .vdi etc images in the future, for generating grub configuration files for usb sticks etc, so it'll be much better to devide it to smaller chunks
07:31
<vagrantc>
and it'd be nice to have pxelinux.cfg support multiple chroots...
07:32
<alkisg>
In ltsp6 we'll have a master pxelinux.cfg file, so it'll match perfectly there
07:33
<vagrantc>
then it doesn't matter weather both amd64 and i386 use generic, because it can select based on chroot
07:33
<alkisg>
True, although I'd leave it up to the sysadmin to write the ifcpu64 line then
07:33
Just a wiki page about how to do it...
07:35
We'd generate a main menu with [arch, flavor] entries, and a detailed menu with [arch, flavor, version] entries; and put it in pxelinux.cfg/ltsp, and pxelinux.cfg/ltsp-all,
07:35
<vagrantc>
but what about, say, an amd64-ubuntu-14.04, i386-ubuntu-12.04, i386-debian-wheezy and amd64-debian-jessie all on a single server?
07:35
<alkisg>
everything else could be done by the sysadmin with a simple INCLUDE directive from /default...
07:35
<vagrantc>
which chroot does it default to using?
07:36
<alkisg>
The ltsp and ltsp-all files would contain all the chroots, alphabetically sorted
07:36
We could split the chroots into separate files and INCLUDE them if it makes more sense...
07:37
<vagrantc>
well, that's a bit later down the road. should wrap up another 1-5 5.x versions before diving into that :)
07:37
<alkisg>
Sure
07:38
I don't have many things left to do for ltsp5.5 though... if you have something in mind, tell me!
07:38
<vagrantc>
just a few more hook dirs to satiate the last bug reports :)
07:41* alkisg also needs to fix a whole load of gnome-session-fallback issues before the 14.04 freeze...
07:42
<alkisg>
highvoltage: do you still have commit access to gnome-flashback? When can we look at the ~10 significant issues it still has, and which I have patches for?
07:43
<highvoltage>
alkisg: yes I do, I've been thinking about that the past few days
07:43
<alkisg>
They're of grave importance, e.g. the panel doesn't load at all, and there's been no reponse to the bug reports at all since a lot of time
07:43
(happy new year btw)
07:43
<highvoltage>
alkisg: *nod*, I can spend some time on that this week
07:43
<alkisg>
highvoltage: do you want to arrange a day for bug squashing there?
07:44
I mean, if you want me around that day, to provide fixes, testing etc
07:44
<highvoltage>
alkisg: I'd maybe have to split it over 2 half days. wed/thu could work
07:44
<alkisg>
Nice, about what hours? evenings, mornings...?
07:45
<highvoltage>
alkisg: I have to be off to the office now but will be online again in around an hour
07:45
alkisg: afternoons is best I think. not sure I'll specifically need you to be around. can you put together that list of issues? I know of at least the menu issue
07:46
<alkisg>
Afternoons == canada time zone?
07:46
<highvoltage>
alkisg: and I have some other triaged in my inbox, but would be nice to make sure I can keep track of all of them
07:46
<alkisg>
Sure, I'll make a list
07:46
<highvoltage>
alkisg: South Africa, so same afternoon as yours
07:46
<alkisg>
Cool
07:46
Thanks, cu in a while
07:46
<highvoltage>
alkisg: cool, ciao
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07:52
<alkisg>
Haha fedora 20 dislikes vbox
07:52* alkisg thinks some gnome-flashback issues might be upstart-related, and others ubuntu-specific, and wants to check it on another distro...
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14:37
<alkisg>
highvoltage: can we have a daily built of gnome-panel somewhere to test with?
14:38
I think many of the problems we have in trusty are solved in git...
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14:59
<highvoltage>
alkisg: building it reliably has been one of the problems, but yes that would definitely be good.
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