IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 16 February 2018   (all times are UTC)

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19:44
<nehemiah>
What can cause fat clients not to resolve DNS? /etc/resolv.conf gets set to 127.0.0.53, changing that manually to the routers address fixes it until a reboot.
19:48
<||cw>
nehemiah: generally, that means it expects a local DNS resolver to be running local and it's not. for ltsp specifically, I'm not sure what would cause that. did you use ltsp-manager to set it up?
19:49
<nehemiah>
Yes I did.
19:49
<||cw>
16.04?
19:49
<nehemiah>
18.04
19:50
Would it help to post my dnsmasq conf file?
19:50
<||cw>
ah, probably a bug then. only 16.04 is reliable out of the box right now
19:50
<nehemiah>
I see
19:50
What is setting that ip in resolv.conf
19:50
because, I guess a work around would be to set the DNS manually?
19:51
<alkisg>
nehemiah: the resolv.conf ltsp code needs updating for 18.04
19:51
Unfortunately noone is working on ltsp currently, so I don't know when that will be done
19:51
<||cw>
possibly, I haven't done any hacking on ltsp since 14.04 so I'm sure what work around to use
19:51
<alkisg>
Better use 16.04 for now
19:52
||cw: actually I did for 12.04 and 16.04, but never for 14.04 :D
19:53
<||cw>
would editing it in the chroot work? might have to re-edit when biulding updated clients
19:53
<alkisg>
The symlink generation is broken
19:53
It's done live while the client boots
19:54
<nehemiah>
Bummer, it's working very well apart from that. And since we're only a couple of months out from official 18.04 release it would be great if I could at leas work around it somehow.
19:55
<alkisg>
There's also a shutdown issue in 18.04, which needs a script that handles systemd better
19:56
I.e. clients hang on shutdown some times
19:56
<nehemiah>
Correct, and that
19:56
<alkisg>
I've fixed those and a few others here locally, if we manage to get funding for ltsp I'll upload them to git...
19:58
<nehemiah>
I see, and understand. I hope that works out because we here think LTSP is amazing.
19:58
<alkisg>
I think I'll also make the fixes available for people that donate to ltsp... we'll see
20:07
<nehemiah>
Okay, I'll keep checking in for that. We'd probably be able to chip in a little. We're a non-profit organization and we have very basic funds for our technology ourselves. But we have ~75 locations over the wold of which we want the largest part to use LTSP. It's about 5/50 workstations per location. That's what I'm working on, I'd like to create an automated Ubuntu installation (or any other way) that would leave any of those locations wi
20:07
th a running LTSP server. Needless to say, with this vision, LTSP is quite important to us because I don't know of any real alternative.
20:14
<||cw>
alkisg: :/ that's not very GPLv2 friendly...
20:22
<alkisg>
||cw: of course it is, gpl and all the floss licenses do want developers to get paid when they write code
20:24
nehemiah: if you want, you can additionally control the servers themselves via epoptes
20:25
It makes it very very easy for a central sysadmin to administer all of them
20:27
<||cw>
right, I mean, you wanted to bounty it. but if it's already written...
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20:51
<vagrantc>
the GPL would require anyone who has access to the code to give the same rights to anyone else who has the code
20:51
but if the code is not made public ... it only needs be shared with those using it
20:52
it also gives all parties the choice to share the code publicly
20:53
so i don't think holding on to personal code changes is against the GPL
20:55
unless you refuse to share them with people you've shared the code and/or binaries with
20:56
the GPL is very generous to the end-user, but it at least gives the developer that much
20:57
<alkisg>
LTSP is mostly interpreted, so it's quite hard to not share the code with the users :)
20:57
<vagrantc>
indeed
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21:01
<||cw>
I didn't say is was illegal or against or anything, it's just not friendly.
21:02
I certainly don't expect anyone to write code for free, but sitting on code that's already written is uncommon in OSS
21:03
<vagrantc>
well, i can say alkis has volunteered the vast majority of major improvements in LTSP over the last 5+ years
21:03
and help countless people
21:04
<||cw>
which is also why i'm surprised by this
21:05
<alkisg>
||cw: basically the options mostly are, let ltsp undeveloped, or find funding
21:05
I think the ltsp users would prefer the second option
21:05
I would call that one most user friendly
21:06
Personally, I have jobs waiting that pay a whole lot more than ltsp ever did; but I care for my users (schools), that's why I'm trying to find a way to keep working on ltsp
21:06
<vagrantc>
or find someone willing to volunteer the time to fix it ...
21:06
<alkisg>
Frankly, I don't think ltsp can produce enough money to sustain its development without a company or a ministry of education etc behind it
21:07
<||cw>
or more than one for that matter.
21:08
I totally understand not having new development if there's no force driving it.
21:09
I'm just a little taken back by the statement that you have code already working you would only share to people that donate.
21:10
<alkisg>
Ah, it's not something that relates to #ltsp here, it's a greek schools thing
21:10
I have 2 roles in Greece, one is supporting 300 schools and the other 1000 schools + developing ltsp
21:11
That second role stopped in 2015, hence the stopping of me working on ltsp, and that's what we're trying to convince the politicians to agree to continue now
21:11
So currently and while we're trying to convince them, I'm supporting the 300 schools in my region, but I stopped supporting the other Greek schools
21:12
So I need to maintain ltsp locally, but not in all of greece, because then the politicians will say "ok we have free support" and will never approve work on ltsp anymore
21:12
<||cw>
have you tried getting other schools on board to contribute too? I'm sure the greek schools aren't the only ones using it
21:13
<alkisg>
Some Greek school teachers are willing to even pay for it from their own funds, because sometimes it's hard to convince the school principal to give money for software
21:13
<||cw>
could a compromise to only post it in patch form and not make a new release?
21:13
<alkisg>
But I don't like that; teachers shouldn't be the ones paying for ltsp
21:14
<||cw>
right, it should be the school boards.
21:14
<alkisg>
So while I made some preparations for crowdfunding pages etc, I never ended up activating them
21:14
<||cw>
they should see the value in it, that it's saving them money
21:14
maybe sold as support packages?
21:15
idk, lots of ideas. maybe when i retire I work on these kinds of things
21:15
<alkisg>
Sure, an "ltsp-fixes" package could be developed and sold, and it could be completely unrelated to the ltsp codebase and licensing,
21:15
and those fixes could even be merged in the upstream codebase periodically,
21:16
but... I'm a programmer, I don't like trying to solve financial issues :D
21:16
So I try to avoid thinking about that
21:16
And I'm just hoping that the teachers will be able to convince the politicians
21:17
<vagrantc>
but once an ltsp-fixes package is released, any one recieving it could submit the patches back upstream
21:17
then it would be awkward not to integrate them
21:18
<alkisg>
It could even be closed source, the tech problems aren't the hard ones here
21:18
Or the licensing could prevent them from being shared upstream before the developers agree
21:20
<vagrantc>
but derived works of GPL inherrit GPL
21:21
<alkisg>
Fixing ltsp systemd shutdown issues isn't a derived work
21:22
<||cw>
I'd be perfectly content with a patch posted to a bug report that doesn't get merged until someone justifies spending time merging. even merged, someone still has to manage the upgrades and new features, so the larger schools still don't really get it "free"
21:22
<alkisg>
The "ltsp-fixes" code may work without touching anything in any ltsp directory; it's not derived codebase
21:23
<vagrantc>
yes, i guess it depends on how it is implemented
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21:24
<vagrantc>
using the various .d areas might land in some grey area ... but is probably mostly fine
21:25
<alkisg>
It's even possible to make it work using the new ltspd hooks (.d directories), so it doesn't have any grey areas at all
21:26
But anyways those parts are not important. Finding a way to share the development costs with all the big users is... if big ltsp users paid only 1 euro per client per year, it would be more than enough to sustain ltsp development
21:27
But this is a problem for a company, not for a developer :D
21:28
<vagrantc>
indeed
21:30* alkisg waves goodnight for now! Cya guys :)
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21:33* vagrantc waves
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22:16
<JerryT>
Is there a way to manipulate _meta_keys that are protected with the API?
22:17
Some sort of override?
22:17
<vagrantc>
what API?
22:18
<JerryT>
REST
22:18
Wordpress REST API
22:18
<vagrantc>
for LTSP ?
22:19
wrong channel, maybe?
22:22
<JerryT>
Oh dear
22:22
Wrong channel
22:22
<vagrantc>
heh
22:22
:)
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