IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 January 2010   (all times are UTC)

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00:24
<alkisg>
Good morning all. I want to give the pxe menus / ltspkernels.conf / ltsp-update-kernels / ltsp-update-image / inetd.conf thing a try today. Would it be better if I did some heavy modifications on the existing tools, particularly ltsp-update-image, or if I the whole thing was new script? (ltsp-update-pxelinux)
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00:39
<johnny>
please not ltsp-update-image
00:40
remember.. not everybody uses it
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01:21
<alkisg>
johnny: sure, I know... ltsp-update-image is what handles nbd port numbers, though
01:21
ltsp-update-kernels would be the one that generates the pxelinux.cfg/default files
01:22
<johnny>
doesn't mean you shouldn't use it
01:22
also.. it should be another script .. just because :)
01:22
<alkisg>
I'm not sure about that :)
01:22
There's a great lack of cooperation between the involved scripts, currently
01:23
Sure, I can make a seperate script, and I can even not put it in ltsp at all but as a seperate project, but I really think we should fix those scripts to better cooperate
01:25
<johnny>
that sounds like a good idea too
01:25
alkisg, it would be nice if parts could be pulled out as shell functions and included..
01:25
and call some stuff conditionally depending on whether certain features were used, like nbd
01:27
<alkisg>
johnny: some more thoughts: e.g. 000-basic-configuration could contain the BOOTPROMPT_OPTS or even the pxe menu caption, and note that down to $ROOT/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
01:27
That would make update-kernels distro agnostic (now it has "case $VENDOR in...")
01:28
<johnny>
they could pull in other files too tho..
01:28
and especially other functions..
01:28
<alkisg>
Also, ltsp-update-image would write down the (possibly modified) nbd port number to that file
01:29
update-kernels would then use whatever information was there to construct a minimal pxelinux.cfg/default in th chroot,
01:29
and ltsp-update-kernels would use those files but also additional server-side info to generate all the pxe menus
01:30
(e.g. if memdisk is there or if the user specified other menu entries)
01:31
Now, the "pulling other files/scripts" is a seperate thing. We could add that after that modifications, but I want to keep the changes simple/minimal for a start...
01:31
johnny: do you have some examples in mind?
01:31
<vagrantc>
oh, what an adventure
01:32
<alkisg>
:)
01:33
<vagrantc>
i like making BOOTPROMPT_OPTS distro agnostic.
01:33
though i don't think all the distro's use update-kernels, even.
01:33
but moving towards something we could all use would be nice.
01:34
the fewer places we can do case/if statements on things like VENDOR, the better.
01:35
<alkisg>
vagrantc: default values would also be used, e.g. BOOTPROMPT_OPTS=${BOOTPROMPT_OPTS:-"root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp"} - but of course if some distro doesn't use update-kernel, it would have to provide its own defaults
01:36
(or just update/source the update-kernels.conf file even if it doesn't use update-kernels)
01:36
<johnny>
i would be able to use ltsp-update-kernels if i modified it..
01:37
<alkisg>
So, I'm thinking to create a branch with all those modifications today + the next few days, and post it to ltsp-devel along with the rationale/specs...
01:39
<vagrantc>
i probably won't be able to take much of a look at it till friday
01:39
<alkisg>
It surely is *not* something to rush :)
01:40
I'm just asking if there's some consent, or a total waste of time :D
01:41
<vagrantc>
i think it could use some serious overhaul and/or rewriting, so i'm glad to see work on it, though i do like the idea of it not being pushed into ltsp-trunk without a some review...
01:42
<alkisg>
Of course. Many files would be modified, so I'm not going to commit such a thing without approval.
01:43
An ltsp-build-client plugin that creates update-kernels.conf will also need to be created in common/.
01:44
(maybe update-kernels.conf should be renamed if not all distros use it, whatever...)
01:45
Also, the pxe files would be split in two: (1) "entry" just the menu entry, and (2) "default", which will just include that entry and make it default
01:46
This way the "entry" files will be included by the "master" file = the menus, but it will still enable someone to keep his old dhcp settings without getting affected
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02:12
<gnunux>
hi
02:29
<alkisg>
Hi
02:46
<johnny>
you can always branch alkisg
02:46
that's what dvcs is for
02:47
or vcs in generally , but dvcs systems tend to make it easier
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02:53
<alkisg>
johnny: right, I'll propose a branch for merging when I'm done. I'll send the specs on the list first, because someone might not want those changes at all.
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07:47
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
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08:01
<alincoln>
stgraber: I and others are seeing this on Lucid: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/507055
08:01
and i noted your benchmarks are on lucid, so you must have it working. :D
08:02
<ogra>
thats just noise
08:02
<alincoln>
in short, ldm segfaults either on log in or if X tries to restart after, say, a failed log in.
08:02
ogra: read the comments
08:02
the point is that X disappears
08:02
<ogra>
i dont care about the comments, the log in the initial comment is definately not harmful
08:02
so that must be a different bug
08:03
the log is juts mountall trying to process fstab while that already happened
08:03
<alincoln>
yes, i'm aware. i noted that in the comments.
08:03
<ogra>
it doesnt do any harm and cant cause X to fail
08:03
so a new bug about the X failure should be filed
08:04
(indeed mountall should be fixed too, but thats definately just cosmetic)
08:05
<alkisg>
alincoln: is that whole thing about the ldm segfaulting?
08:05
<alincoln>
ogra: the user sees the confusing output because ldm/X dies. i'm trying to get help on fixing the ldm crash.
08:05
alkisg: yes
08:05
<alkisg>
It's a duplicate of another bug I posted, along with the solution
08:05
<alincoln>
alkisg: ah!
08:05
<alkisg>
Please mark it as duplicate
08:05
<ogra>
alkisg, that wont fix mountall though
08:05
<alincoln>
i'll look, but can you link me to the dupe?
08:06
<alkisg>
ogra: sure. But that bug isn't about mountall, is it?
08:06
<ogra>
would be good to keep that one for the mountall messages so that can get cleaned up at some point
08:06
<alkisg>
"ltsp fails to run"?
08:06
<ogra>
alkisg, right, the subject line should be renamed
08:06
the first comment is properly pointing to mountall
08:06
<alkisg>
I'm thinking that maybe _another_ one should be filed... :)
08:06
Anyway, let me search for the bug #...
08:06
<ogra>
or that
08:07
in any case mountall shouldnt be ignored, it confuses people
08:07
<alincoln>
alkisg: 505787?
08:07
<alkisg>
alincoln: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/505787
08:07
<alincoln>
rock on.
08:07
alkisg: thanks.
08:07
<alkisg>
alincoln: the easiest way to fix it is to put "-n" as a parameter to pgrep in your current ltsp_config,
08:07
and run ltsp-update-image.
08:08
Or just wait for 3-4 days until stgraber releases the committed version
08:08
<stgraber>
alincoln: it's a known issue, use my PPA on Lucid to get an upstream snapshot of ldm and ltsp
08:08
alincoln: I plan to upload that to Lucid this week
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08:09
<alincoln>
stgraber: thanks. alkisg pointed me to the better bug report
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09:10
<sbalneav>
Morning all
09:14
<Gadi>
!s
09:14
<ltspbot>
Gadi: "s" :: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:17
<sbalneav>
Morning Gadi
09:17
<vmlintu>
sbalneav: hi.. did you end up hearing anything from pam_envfeed?
09:31
<sbalneav>
vmlintu: Yeah, made contact with the fellow. I offered to add configure.ac & autotools which would aid greatly with packaging, and he indicated he "hated them and didn't want them", so I haven't looked at it since :)
09:34
<vmlintu>
sounds like it's about time to create a new project to provide the functionality
09:40
Somehow nowadays I'm writing more and more code that is run in pam stack.. Probably I'll end up coding tetris or something using pam soon.. ;)
09:41
<ogra>
"win this tetris round to log in or type a valid password now"
09:42
<vmlintu>
or maybe nethack
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09:51
<alincoln>
is there anything in particular, e.g. a known bug, that I can dig into? you all know better where current efforts are now and where help is needed most. any advice?
09:52
<ogra>
alincoln, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp or if you want to work on distro specific stuff https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp
09:52
<alincoln>
ogra: just pick?
09:52
<ogra>
yeah
09:52
<alincoln>
can do.
09:53
<ogra>
if you have quaetions, sbalneav, stgraber or alkisg should be able to help
09:53
(or patches :) )
09:55
<alincoln>
cool
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09:56
<alkisg>
alincoln: or testing of new features/versions etc :)
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09:57
<alincoln>
alkisg: yep, been trying on ubuntu 10.04, and now on stephane's PPA. but are there other PPAs/experimental things i should be monitoring?
09:58
<ogra>
stephane ususally package the packages in his PPA in advance for testing
09:58
<alkisg>
alincoln: for example, 10.04 has fat client support, it's still new and needs testing
09:58
<ogra>
so thats your best place
09:59
<alincoln>
sounds good.
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10:02
<dro>
alkisg: hmmm so a fat client with localapps or no?
10:02
<alkisg>
dro: a fat client is a "standalone workstation that only uses the ltsp server as a networked disk"
10:02
<dro>
alkisg: very interesting
10:03
nas ftw
10:03
alkisg: that will be interesting, especially in a vmware setup
10:04
<alkisg>
dro: I'm really looking forward to use this to schools
10:04
<dro>
a lot of my clients are buying a new setup from called, called an equalizer box, that is a giant nas/vmware server
10:04
<alkisg>
I.e. maintaining only one chroot and booting e.g. 12 clients off of it
10:04
<dro>
*wonders if ubuntu can do iscsi*
10:05
<alkisg>
dro: authentication also happens as usually in LTSP, with ldm, and the home directory is mounted with ssh, so it's much better than nas
10:05
You keep the centralized authentication/home features of ltsp
10:05
<dro>
cool
10:09
<ogra>
dro, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/IscsiEcryptfs
10:09
was just added yesterday afaik
10:09
<dro>
ogra: sweeeeeet I'll add that to favorites
10:09
<ogra>
heh
10:10
dro, i think pmatulis would appreciate tester feedback ;)
10:10
<dro>
ogra: I'll make sure to test and let him know
10:10
<ogra>
cool !
10:11
<pmatulis>
ogra, dro: me like feedback!
10:11
<dro>
pmatulis: :P
10:11
if I don't get to it today then I'll do it tonight
10:12
I'm just stoked because I guess the thought that I could build a iscsi server out of ubuntu never crossed my mind
10:12
I hate traditional sans
10:13
pmatulis: would you prefer me to test on 9.10 or 10.04
10:14
<pmatulis>
dro: best go for 9.10 for now
10:14
<dro>
pmatulis: cool i was hoping you would say that
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11:20
<Gadi>
alkisg: wouldn't you prefer to use the same chroot for fat clients and thin (and doesnt your last commit make that more difficult)?
11:20
<alkisg>
Gadi, no, it makes it easier :)
11:21
Here are my thoughts:
11:21
(we talked about it in #edubuntu)
11:22
If a user specifies --fat-client, he either wants to (1) use a mixed mode lab (what you said above) or (2) only use fat clients
11:22
If he wants to use a mixed mode lab, he'll HAVE to have an lts.conf, to seperate the PCs
11:22
So in that lts.conf he can put whatever default he wants, depending on if he has more thin clients or fat clients:
11:22
[Default]
11:22
LTSP_FATCLIENT=False
11:22
[PowerfulPC]
11:23
LTSP_FATCLIENT=True
11:23
So no difference in that mixed mode case.
11:23
Now, if the user only wants fat clients, with the patch I just committed, he doesn't have to specify an lts.conf
11:23
So in that case, we make it easier for him
11:24
==> there's an advantage in one use case, with no disadvantages in other cases
11:24
Right?
11:26
<Gadi>
gotcha - I guess you just need to document that you can use a fat client chroot and still have some clients connect as thin clients by using LTSP_FATCLIENT=False
11:26
<alkisg>
There are two "echo"s there that are supposed to notify the user... :D
11:27
...but my communication abilities in English are limited, could someone express it better? :(
11:27
<Gadi>
well, echos notwithstanding it should be in a document that the admin can refer back to
11:27
:)
11:27
<alkisg>
man lts.conf ?
11:27
<Gadi>
also - it is an ubuntu-only plugin, right?
11:28
<alkisg>
Right now, yes, but I don't see why other distros could not do something similar
11:28
<Gadi>
so, for now the ubuntu wiki should suffice
11:28
<alkisg>
OK, I'll put up a page under UbuntuLTSP/ after the first Lucid beta
11:29
We could describe the whole concept there I guess....
11:31
<Gadi>
alkisg: have you had anyone work on an LTSP fatclient for a while? are there any issues over time?
11:33
<alkisg>
Gadi, I've been given a leave of absense to do my phd, so I won't be in classrooms for a while. Nevertheless, I'm a member of a technical support team, and we tested it in a lab of 10 PCs with variable specs, and it worked perfectly except for some sound problems which were also present when the clients booted as normal thin clients.
11:33
<Gadi>
cool
11:33
phd in what?
11:33
<alkisg>
Teaching informatics :)
11:34
(pedagogical)
11:34
<Gadi>
interesting
11:35
<alkisg>
There are some teachers willing to test that plugin though, and I told them to wait until stgraber ships the next ltsp version. So I guess we'll have much feedback in a couple of weeks.
11:36
I was impressed by the nbd speed, my daughters atom boots in less than 30" with a full blown desktop. Games, googleearth etc everything working flawlessly
11:37
<Gadi>
yeah - of course all this mucking with the chroot means we really need to improve our chroot-mangling interfaces
11:37
:)
11:39
personally, I would prefer fewer chroot-building plugins and more deb packages that can be installed into an existing chroot at any time
11:39
like an ltsp-fatclient package
11:40
<alkisg>
Well... how would it install e.g. edubuntu-desktop then?
11:40
<Gadi>
well, you could have: ltsp-fatclient-ubuntu, ltsp-fat-client-edubuntu, ltsp-fatclient-xubuntu
11:40
if you wanted
11:40
and it would pull everything in and set things up
11:40
so, I build just a regular chroot
11:41
and if I want it to be a fatclient, I say: ltsp-install ltsp-fatclient-edubuntu
11:41
and off it goes
11:42
<alkisg>
Now it's 30 lines of code, and most of them are there to workaround problems that shouldn't be handled from there
11:43
So it would be e.g. 20 lines of code
11:43
By making 3 packages to do that, complexity is added
11:43
It does have pros and cons...
11:43
<Gadi>
agreed
11:44
its just nice to add/remove from an existing chroot
11:44
as opposed to rebuilding from scratch
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11:45
<alkisg>
The fat client script basically adds some blacklisted packages, which should be there even if it isn't installed
11:46
So I guess one could just do apt-get install edubuntu-desktop or whatever else, and it could work with no plugins or packages whatsoever
11:46
And then purge them at will
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12:08* _UsUrPeR_ returns from the dentist
12:08
<_UsUrPeR_>
mah face is ded!
12:08
<knipwim>
enjoy it while it lasts
12:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
:)
12:10
<alincoln>
shouldn't that emoticon be a little different?
12:10
make one side saggy
12:10
<ogra>
:S
12:10
<alincoln>
hah
12:14
<_UsUrPeR_>
:E
12:16
<Lns>
_UsUrPeR_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txqiwrbYGrs <-- you? ;)
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12:17
<_UsUrPeR_>
Lns: Is this real life?
12:17
'cause now I'm holding up 4 fingers
12:17
<Lns>
hahaha
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12:57
<CAN-o-SPAM>
afternoon everyone!
12:59
<Lns>
hey CAN-o-SPAM
13:00
<dro>
good afternoon
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14:15
<_UsUrPeR_>
hey all
14:15
quick question about an LTSP server configuration I am working with at the moment
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14:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
I have two eth interfaces. ETH0 is on the "cloud", and the dhcp server (192.168.1.1) is pointing all DHCP pxe booting computers on our network towards ETH0
14:18
ETH1 is an internal network on another subnet
14:20
and is serving DHCP for all clients on ETH1
14:21
booting clients on eth0 is working fine, but booting clients off eth1 are not receiving TFTP from the server.
14:21
is using both interfaces a problem?
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14:23
<dro>
_UsUrPeR_: what do you have for next-server in your dhcp config
14:24
<_UsUrPeR_>
dro: next server has been commented.
14:25* _UsUrPeR_ puts proper stuff in
14:25
<_UsUrPeR_>
hmm
14:25
<dro>
_UsUrPeR_: I don't see why it wouldn't work, unless something is only listening on eth0, and not eth1
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14:26
<_UsUrPeR_>
see, that's what I am thinking. I'm not sure why it would be an issue, so I want to make sure there's no special circumstances with two interfaces
14:27
<dro>
_UsUrPeR_: I know when I used the alt cd install for ubuntu, with a server that has 2 nic's, that one nic seemed to be dedicatd to tftp/ltsp and the other for internet access
14:28
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: did you tell dhcp to only listen on eth0?
14:28
(cat /etc/default/dhcp3-server or something like that)
14:28
(or dpkg-reconfigure dhcp3-server - don't do it, I'm just asking if you already did)
14:29
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: naw. I have not touched default settings
14:29
dhcp actually works fine
14:30
It's just tftp that is not working
14:30
<alkisg>
You mean that the clients do accept and address and try to download from the tftp server, and fail?
14:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: correct
14:31
<alkisg>
Is that Karmic?
14:31
<_UsUrPeR_>
yes
14:32
<alkisg>
You can try installing tftp-hpa (the client, not the server) on a PC, and then try to download pxelinux.0 from the server manually
14:32
<_UsUrPeR_>
good call
14:32
lemme give that a shot
14:32
<alkisg>
tftp server-ip
14:32
bin
14:32
get ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
14:45
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: whoops. old bridge left around :/
14:46
<alkisg>
:)
14:46
<_UsUrPeR_>
brctl delif <thing> <stuff>
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14:53
<dro>
lol
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15:40
<coordinador>
hi, i have a problem, im chrooted and when i want to install anything with apt-get i get "keytool: error while loading shared libraries: libjli.so:"
15:41
and "error adding mozilla 'something' " like "error adding mozilla/GeoTrust_Global_CA_2.crt"
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15:58
<akuepker>
Running Ubuntu 9.10 with pre-packaged LTSP5. I have an app that is expecting to forward to port 6000 on my terminals from a remote server (not the terminal server). I realize that this isn't remotely ideal. Is there a way to accomodate this up on the terminals and still run most of the X traffic through the ssh tunnels?
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16:13
<Gadi>
akuepker: you need to allow that App access to the Xserver
16:13
either by sharing the xauthority token
16:13
or (gasp) opening up the display to be written to without authentication
16:13
<akuepker>
yeah, not keen on the latter.
16:14
I don't understand the xauthority stuff very well. should perhaps dig into that further.
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16:15
<Gadi>
the token is stored in ~/.Xauthority
16:15
<akuepker>
which is about all I know =)
16:15
<Gadi>
hehe
16:15
well, you can use xauth to allow a user from a particular computer to write to the display
16:16
<akuepker>
thankfully I just found out that 3 people need it, not the 35 I'd feared. A little easier to deal with that.
16:16
Thanks Gadi!
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18:32
<kaos01>
hi im having problems with local device, it seems that /dev/sdb instead of /dev/sdb1 is mounted on the client
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20:11
<sbalneav>
Evening all
20:12
<stgraber>
hey sbalneav
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